Scamfluencers - Natalie Cochran: The Pharmacist Femme Fatale Part 2 | 184

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

When her Ponzi scheme starts to crumble – and her husband dies under mysterious circumstances – Natalie Cochran plays the perfect victim: a widowed mother of two, supposedly battling cancer while grieving her sudden loss. But behind her tears is a master manipulator. And soon, Natalie will face questions she can’t lie her way out of – from federal investigators and the national media.Be the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletterListen to Scamfluencers on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/scamfluencers/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey there, Scamfulencers fans. Want to be the first to know how these wild scams unfold. Join us on Patreon to get early access to episodes, add free listening, and exclusive content that reveals even more of the drama. Just search for scamfluencers on Patreon and dive deeper into the scandal. Sachi, how many times does your friend have to break dinner plans with you and be a flake before you realize? they're full of shit. Um, for someone I don't know very well, I'll give you two chances and then I will never try again. Yeah, I think for me, it just kind of starts becoming clear that we're living in different realities and the person obviously thinks I'm stupid.

So once that hits, it's basically over. Yeah, there's not coming back from stupid. Well, this week, we're reconnecting with West Virginia pharmacist and cold-blooded husband killer Natalie Cochran. Natalie has lied to everyone in her life. about government contracts, baseball funds, cancer, her husband's death, and God knows what else. Now, friends, family, and law enforcement are all about to call her out on her bullshit. It's February 21st, 2019, and Donna Bolt is sick with grief.

Donna is a 60-year-old retired nurse with long gray hair, and last week she buried her only. child, Michael Cochran. Today, she's sitting in her living room in West Virginia, surrounded by bookshelves, filled with photos of Michael. Michael's death has been devastating for Donna, and it's not just the loss of her son. It's the way it happened. Less than two weeks ago,

she received a text out of the blue from Michael's wife, Natalie. Attached was a picture of Michael on a ventilator. Five days later, he was gone. Natalie insisted on having the funeral just two days later and refused to let Donna invite anyone. She also demanded that the funeral home take down Michael's obituary. Donna has always loved her daughter-in-law

and her two grandchildren. But lately, they've been acting distant and it's only gotten worse since Michael's passing. That's why Donna is surprised when she receives another text from Natalie. Thankfully, it's not bad news. Instead, Natalie is asking if Donna wants to invest more money into the Cochran's government contracting business. Donna and her husband have already invested their life savings into these companies,

nearly $250,000. Natalie promised them a million dollar payout, but they haven't seen any money yet due to a series of issues, including an audit and a government shutdown. Today, Natalie says there's a new round of state contract, with huge 10-day profit returns. She adds that the state always pays on time, guaranteed. I can't fathom being a mom and my son is dead. He's barely cold.

And my daughter-in-law is focused on, like, the business and money and returns. That's so immediately disturbing to me. I can't imagine how Donna is feeling about it. Yeah, I mean, Donna might be disturbed, but she loves her daughter-in-law, and maybe Natalie is handling her grief by throwing herself into work. So Donna gives Natalie another $27,000.

But soon, Donald will learn the truth. Natalie's companies haven't received a single government contract. They're a cover for her Ponzi scheme. And not only has Natalie stolen Donna's money, she's taken something far worse, her son. Donna will discover that Natalie murdered Michael. As word of Natalie's betrayal spreads, it unleashes a storm of scandal and media attention.

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From Wondery, I'm Sarah Haggy, and I'm Sachi Cole. And this is scam influencers. Come and give me your attention. I won't ever learn my lesson. Turn my speaker to a love and I feel like a legend. In our last episode, Natalie Cochran duped her small-town neighbors into investing in what turned out to be a Ponzi scheme.

She went to extreme lengths to keep her con going from creating a fake Federal Reserve employee to claiming to have cancer. And when her husband Michael started to suspect the truth, she poisoned him with insulin. Now, Natalie appears to be a widowed mother of two bravely battling cancer while grieving the sudden loss of her husband. For a moment, this story keeps her investors at bay.

But soon, she'll face questions she can't lie her way out of, from federal investigators and the national media. This is Natalie Cochran, the pharmacist Fem Fatal, Part 2. After Michael's death, people have a lot of sympathy for Natalie. But that can't last forever for her investors, because they also want answers on when they're getting paid. Natalie can't provide them, so she deflects, stalls, and lies through her teeth. But Natalie has another source of funds, the Youth Sports League bank account.

She's the treasurer and the only person monitoring the accounts. So for a while, she's been helping herself to the league's money. For example, the league writes a check for more than $4,000 to TSG, one of Natalie's contracting companies for uniforms that don't exist. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. You may remember from last episode, Natalie sponsored a charity bingo event for local sports teams, where she promised winners semi-automatic rifles.

They raised about $32,000. Natalie pockets half of it and donates the other half to the league, but the check bounces. On top of that, she's been using the league account for her own expenses at places like T.J. Max and Olive Garden.

Okay, so Natalie is also stealing money from kids who just want to play baseball, and all of that was worth killing her husband for. Very cool. For months, Natalie has been spreading so many lies and avoiding all of the people she owes money to, which is basically her whole town. But one of her victims is about to get tired of waiting. They're going to get the police involved, and they have no reason to fall for her grieving widow act. It's March 2019, and Lieutenant Tim Bledso is at his office in the West Virginia State Troopers building in Beckley, West Virginia.

Tim is a no-nonsense guy with wire-framed glasses, short hair, and a goatee. He's an investigator with nearly three decades of experience, and he's passionate about his work as a police detective. His mother was a nurse, and from a young age, he knew he wanted to help people. Lately, Tim and his partner, Bob, have mostly been working on cold cases. But today, Bob brings him a lead on an active financial crime. Bob has been talking to a legit firearms dealer who sold around $80,000 worth of guns to Natalie's company.

The dealer has only received about half of the money so far, and he hasn't been able to get Natalie to pay the rest. On top of that, the dealer has a friend who's also invested with Natalie. He hasn't got any of his money back either. This all sounds pretty fishy to Tim, so he and Bob decide to start investigating. So, Sarah, just to be clear, this investigation is happening

because of a legitimate arms dealer that they have been dealing with. And now I think I have to root for the arms dealer because that's why an investigation is even happening into Natalie. I think you should be rooting for justice personally. I don't think it's necessarily a person. But Tim and Bob need to talk to people

about Natalie's businesses, but they can't risk tipping her off. If Natalie realizes she's under investigation, she might try to destroy evidence. So they need to come up with a cover story. After talking to the medical examiner, they learned that Michael never had an autopsy. This gives them an opening,

launch a new investigation into the strange circumstances of Michael's death. This way, they have an excuse to interview Natalie and her friends and family. But keep in mind, at this point, this is just a front. Tim doesn't suspect murder. He just thinks Michael's death was strange, but ultimately tragic.

With their cover story in place, Tim and Bob start reviewing all of the paperwork. And they soon realized that no one has been paid any of the money they're owed. Natalie's not running a business, she's running a Ponzi scheme. At first, Tim assumes Michael was in on it as well. He thinks there's a chance

Michael committed suicide, or that one of the investors wanted revenge. But then, things start to get weird. On April 8, 2019, just a month after opening the case, Tim and Bob sit down with Natalie. At first, she repeats the story she's told before. Michael had a seizure. But Natalie seems unhappy about having to talk to them, and over the course of several interviews,

Natalie's story keeps changing. She tells Tim that Michael was taking. illegal supplements, which were basically unregulated steroids from Mexico. But when Tim expresses concern that a potentially lethal drug could be coming into the U.S., she brushes him off. Then she claims Michael was using insulin to offset his steroid use in that he injected himself in the back. This all strikes Tim as pretty strange.

And as he collects more evidence, things only get stranger. Tim reviews text sent between Natalie and Michael, and they tell a very different story. Michael trusted Natalie. He thought their government contracts were legit and had no idea she was running a Ponzi scheme. Natalie sent Michael the same fake documents she showed everyone else and even talked to him about Betsy,

the fake Federal Reserve employee who was supposedly helping them get paid. And once Tim realizes Michael didn't know about the fraud, he becomes genuinely curious about Michael's death. If nothing else, the timing is suspicious. Yeah, there is a lot that is suspicious, including the idea that this man was injecting himself in the back with insulin to offset his own steroids. Yeah, she is not covering her tracks well.

Sloppy. But then, Tim discovers the most damning, evidence against Natalie. Natalie herself. He reads her texts and sees how cruel Natalie was to Michael's mother. He discovers that Natalie was still soliciting investors while her husband was in the ICU. She even filed a $2,500 insurance claim supposedly to replace the kitchen countertop Michael broke when he fell. To Tim, this doesn't seem like the behavior of a grieving widow. Tim and Bob also learn that just before his death, Michael was planning to fly to Virginia to investigate the company's Bank of America account. If he had made it there, he would have uncovered the truth

about Natalie's lies. And yet, in all their conversations about Michael's death, Natalie never once mentions this trip. Tim becomes convinced that Michael, a healthy 38-year-old, didn't die of natural causes, and that Natalie is somehow involved or responsible. If nothing else, Natalie chose to be negligent by allowing her incredibly sick husband to lie on the couch for six hours before taking him to the hospital. And then, Tim reads a text between Natalie and Michael from the day before he was rushed to the hospital. Here's what Tim says on the Creepalachia podcast.

She was the one pushing him to buy a helicopter, to buy Mercedes, whatever. And he's like, we got to get to. at this bank figured out. Her reply was, just go ahead and order it. It doesn't matter

at this point anyway. And when I saw that, I was like, that is somebody who's already made a decision. Yeah. I can't get over how bad Natalie is at this.

Honestly, it's like she's not even trying. Yeah. She really was like, I'm going to commit the perfect murder and not even try. Well,

Tim and Bob start investigating Michael's death for real, but Natalie has no idea how deep Tim's investigation is running. And while he continues gathering evidence, Natalie's only going to drag more people into her scam. It's April 2019, and Jeff Vickers is having a tough day at work. Jeff has short, buzzed hair and a wide smile, and he works at Premier Bank in Greenbrier County, West Virginia. Today, he's having a very difficult meeting with Natalie Cochran. This isn't the first time Jeff has met with Natalie. Back in December, she applied for a $100,000 loan, and Jeff rejected her.

But this time, she brought updated documents about her government contracting business. Jeff says Natalie told him and one of his colleagues that she's in the top 5% of suppliers for the Department of Defense and that her company's net worth is more than $900 million. Jeff is pretty amazed, especially since Natalie's business has only been around for less than two years. But Natalie tells him all about how she's part Native American and lives in a government opportunity zone, which makes it easier for her to get contracts.

Then, she shows him letters of support from Senator Joe Manchin, promising to help her with her frozen accounts. And when Jeff asks more questions, Natalie breaks down crying, saying everything would be different if Michael was still around. What a scam. Being a beautiful, sad white lady at a bank, wow, you can really get some things. Yeah, weaponizing grief is top ten evil things someone can do. Weaponizing fake grief, I should say. Fake grief.

Jeff is still uncertain, but he takes pity on Natalie and approves her loan. Jeff doesn't know it, but he's just made one of the biggest mistakes of his career. Every document she submitted was fake, including the letter from Senator Mansion. In just a few months, Natalie is going to default on her very first payment. But the evidence against Natalie is mounting, and soon the truth will catch up with her. The world will finally witness the full scope of her deception and see just how remorse. She truly is. It's May 6, 2019,

about a month after Natalie's first interview with Lieutenant Tim. Since then, rumors have started to swirl about the police investigation into Michael's death. So it seems like she's more determined than ever to play the part of the grieving, rich widow. That's why she's at Shady Springs High School today, standing on stage in front of the entire student body handing out certificates framed in a handsome folio.

She's here to award the Coach Michael Cochran Legacy Scholarship, which includes a full ride to any school of the recipient's choice. And the scholarship doesn't just cover a four-year degree. It actually goes for up to eight years and includes an annual $7,500 stipend for personal spending. Oh, and it's not merit-based, so it doesn't even matter what grades a student gets. The whole thing is paid for by T.S.G. Natalie has personally picked eight students, presumably based on their connection to Michael.

The group includes two of her nieces, a cousin, and the son of Tony, Natalie's widowed friend slash investor, who lost her husband to leukemia. Remember, just a few months ago, Natalie told Tony she also had leukemia. But now, Natalie has shared some great news amid all the tragedy. She's in remission. Natalie tells the student's parents not to apply for any additional scholarships and to cancel any financial aid requests, even though she knows she's not going to be able to give the students any money.

So this is like basically bar for bar, Scott's Tots from the office, but it's also so demonstrably evil because she's saying this to people that are like related and connected to people she's already ripped money off from and telling them to like cancel their financial aid request. This is so evil and these people trust her. Yeah, it is needlessly cruel. But no matter how much Natalie tries to act like everything is going well,

it doesn't deter investigators from looking deeper into Michael's death. So around this time, Natalie decides to go full Karen and call Tim's boss, the captain of the state troopers. She asks him when the investigation will be over and says she's struggling to deal with her husband's death while the case keeps dragging on. Can you imagine you're under investigation for murder and you call the cop's boss

and you're like, hey, your employees being super mean? Can you imagine living a life that makes you entitled enough to think you can do that? Yeah, because Natalie is a master manipulator and her manipulation has worked on plenty of people. people before. But this time, she is out of luck. Tim's boss defends him completely and says the investigators are just doing their job. Natalie can feel the walls closing in. But then, she receives an unexpected break a few weeks later. A friend connects her to Dr. Dan Foley, an orthodontist

with a chain of successful dental offices. Dan has heard that TSG is a big moneymaker, and he wants in. Naturally, Natalie is more than happy to engage. She provides Dan with falsified tax documents, then offers him 49% of the company for $4.9 million. And with the numbers she shared, it looks like a steal. To sweeten the pot, Natalie promises to teach him everything she knows about government contracting. Dan's in. He sends her a $50,000 down payment and agrees to pay $1 million a year after that.

This is a wild stroke of luck for Natalie. But this high won't last. Because soon, the cops will come knocking on her door. On June 25th, Tim makes his big move. Until now, Natalie hasn't been aware of his investigation into her financial crimes. So she's caught off guard when he executes a search warrant for her office and her home. Tim and his team scour the house. In the kitchen, he sees an officer open the fridge door, peek inside, and close it.

But Tim decides to take a deeper look. Here he is describing why on the Kripalacha podcast. At that point, 26, 27 years in law enforcement, I've been on enough search warrants. You don't just open the door. People hide stuff. As he pokes around, he notices something in the fridge. He pushes aside some chocolate bars to find a punctured bottle of insulin.

The insulin isn't damning on its own. Natalie is a former pharmacist who specialized in diabetes, but it is a little strange for there to be insulin in a household where no one has diabetes. Tim bags the insulin and adds it to evidence. When the search is done, he sits at the kitchen table with Natalie. He shows her a 30-page list of every, everything taken from the home.

Tim watches Natalie quickly scan the pages. She stops only once on the entry for insulin. She points to it and tells Tim she keeps this bottle in her house for her neighbors whose son is a diabetic. Tim thanks Natalie for her cooperation and leaves. But the moment sticks with him. Why was Natalie so concerned with the bottle of insulin?

Well, yeah, I mean, she's concerned with it because she must tell everybody what crime she's done. She must be the easiest person to misdirect or, like, pickpocket or something. Can you imagine playing clue with this woman? She's always pointing to exactly what she doesn't want people to see. Tim is determined to keep investigating. But confronting Natalie won't be easy. West Virginia is a small state, and Daniels is an even smaller town.

News of the search warrant spreads like wildfire. And Tim knows it's only a matter of time before Natalie's investors put the pieces together. Before this happens, he and Bob need to get ahead of it. So, that same day, the police sit down with Donna, Michael's mother. They break the news that her daughter-in-law has been running a Ponzi scheme. There were never any government contracts. She's stolen Donna's life savings.

Money Donna will probably never get back. Donna is stunned. Natalie had just promised to start paying her and her husband $9,000 a week to pay back their initial investment and to deliver them over $1 million in profit. Donna thought she'd never have to worry about money again. And this isn't even the worst part. The police tell Donna they're looking into Michael's death

and that Natalie left him suffering on their couch for hours before finally taking him to the hospital. Donna is devastated. Her daughter-in-law has been conning her and may have killed her only child. Donna's devastation is only the beginning, because soon, friends, neighbors, and investors all across this small West Virginia community

will realize just how deep Natalie's betrayal goes. Hey, I'm Sarah Marshall, and there's one story from the past that I've been circling around for years now. This eight-part series traces the hidden history of the Satanic panic in North America. We'll connect the dots from Victoria, BC, to the backroads of Kentucky. Satan was having a moment, the sensationalist heartthrob of our time. The Devil You Know. Available now wherever you get your podcasts. On Boxing Day 2018, 20-year-old Joy Morgan was last seen at her church, Israel United in Christ, or IUIC. I just went on my Snapchat and I just see her face plastered everywhere.

This is the missing sister, the true story of a woman betrayed by those she trusted most. IUC is my family and like the best family that I've ever had. But IUIC isn't like most churches. This is a devilish cult. You know when you get that feeling, man, you just, I don't want to be here. I want to get out. It's like that feeling of, like, I want to go hang out. I'm Charlie Brent Coast Cuff, and after years of investigating Joy's case, I need to know what really happened to Joy.

Binge all episodes of The Missing Sister exclusively an ad-free right now on Wondery Plus. Start your free trial of Wondery Plus on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or in the Wondery app. It's still June 25th, the day investigators searched Natalie's house. Michael's best friend, Chris, is at home with his wife, Jennifer, trying to process the news. He knows something is very wrong because, as he later told the Creepalachia podcast, the feds don't show up at your house because you got a speeding house. ticket. Remember, Chris also invested with Natalie. He's starting to realize she might not have the money she's been promising him. But that's not the worst of it. He gets a call from the police. And instead

of asking about Natalie's financial crimes, they want to know if Chris or Jennifer ever gave Natalie insulin to keep for their son, Gavin. Jennifer says no. But then the investigators ask if they ever gave Natalie insulin. Jennifer says she did once, back when Natalie supposedly had cancer. Here's Chris on the Creepalachia podcast describing what happened next. She was sick when she had her cancer.

Do you know when that was? I can look at my phone, and she just starts crying. Oh, man. They're like, so what date was it? Oh, my gosh, it's February 6th. Can you imagine finding out that your friend not only took a bunch of your money and you're never getting it back, but may have used the insulin for your kid to perhaps

kill her husband? No, it's beyond comprehension. Chris's very faith in God is shaken by how evil Natalie is. Sachi, can you read what Chris later says on 2020? He says, what keeps Gavin alive, she used to kill. She used to take a life. Yeah, I mean, like, insulin is not thought of as like a murder device. This is beyond comprehension.

I feel like there are just too many layers to how evil it is. But also, Chris and Jennifer have just blown up Natalie's alibi for why she had insulin in her fridge. But Natalie isn't ready to admit guilt, so she's going to continue what she does best lie. After the search warrant, investors really start turning the heat up on national. Natalie. For the past two years, Natalie has been spinning stories she thinks will resonate with her community, including saying she sold all the guns for the wall on the U.S.-Mexico border. But now, people want answers. A month after the search warrant on July 23rd, 2019, the U.S. Attorney's Office officially files a civil case against Natalie. And a couple of days

after that, the Register Herald, the local newspaper, publishes a story about Natalie with the headline, local pharmacist accused of money laundering. Between the investigation, the charges, and the news story, everyone in town now knows that Natalie's companies never had a single government contract and that her investors have been robbed of at least $2.8 million. In the meantime, Natalie placed,

one of the last cards she has left. She officially files for bankruptcy. Generally speaking, when you declare bankruptcy, many of your creditors can no longer come after you for your personal debts. So, in theory, Natalie can try to get a blank slate. Except the list of creditors she includes with the filing doesn't include any of her investors. She also neglects to include TSG and TMS among her business interests, and she dramatically understates her income. She says she only made $200,000 in 2018, which is way less than she's stolen from her investors. This is really foolish. Like, she's not even good at getting herself out of jams when the answer is so clearly in front of her.

Yeah, it is hard to know what's true and what's not, since the document is riddled with lies. Natalie claims she has around $400,000 in assets and says she owes her creditors somewhere between $1 to $10 million. She says her only income is $502 each month in food stamps. Natalie's bankruptcy only raises more questions, and there's only one institution that can start to answer them, the local news. It's August 7, 2019, about two weeks,

after Natalie's civil case has been opened, and Jessica Farish is finally getting the chance to interview her. Jessica is an award-winning reporter for the Register Herald. With her long-ground hair and warm smile, she looks more like a TV anchor than a print journalist. She's deeply embedded in the local community, and she's been following Natalie for a while. Jessica is very familiar with Natalie's businesses

because of their billboards. Here's how she describes it in an interview with the YouTube channel, Lawyer Lee. I always thought it was odd to drive and see the Bible verses on billboards with advertising the guns. Sarah, this is America. They really love their Bibles and their guns here. Do you know how weird the billboards have to be in West Virginia for someone to be like,

hmm? Yeah, I can only imagine the billboards were crazy looking for her to remark on them. And naturally, people are pretty. pissed now that Natalie's Ponzi scheme is public. But it's not just the friends and family who invested. Remember the kids Natalie promised non-existent scholarships to? By now, it's too late for many of them to receive other scholarships or financial aid. And the Youth Sports League, which Natalie has been embezzling from, is reeling too. With Natalie's crimes out in the open and the league auditing their accounts, people with grudges are ready to talk.

Jessica's job is sorting out the facts from the wild accusations being made on social media. That's why Natalie has agreed to this interview. She wants to clear the air and provide the truth. Ugh, as a journalist, nothing delights me more than when a source says they want to clear the air. Yes, clear it. Clear it with me. Let me help you clear it. She is beyond stupid. Well, Jessica sits down with Natalie and, and her bankruptcy attorney.

The attorney says this online hate is fueled by unrelated bad blood. And Natalie adds that actually, things have been really hard since her cancer diagnosis. She says the people speaking out against her are just looking for attention, and that all of this is really hard for her children. Natalie also takes the opportunity to address rumors about Michael's death. She tells Jessica that the rumors are wrong. a state trooper and a physician's assistant both looked at Michael after he collapsed. But when Jessica looks into this later, she learns that both were friends of Natalie and Michael,

and they urged her to take Michael to the hospital. As August continues, even more information comes out. The day after the interview, the police officially announced that Natalie is being investigated in connection with her husband's death. About a week later, Jessica reports on the Youth Baseball League's audit, which comes to the conclusion that Natalie stole at least $10,000. And about a week after that, Jessica attends a creditors' meeting for Natalie in bankruptcy court. Jessica takes notes as Natalie says her assets have been frozen by federal investigators. She watches as Natalie breaks down crying,

recounting that the authorities took $13 out of her son's desk, as well as his dirt bike. In the middle of September, Michael's body is exhumed. And about a week later, Jessica gets a tip that Natalie is about to be arrested. She quickly calls a photographer and they head to Natalie's house.

On the morning of September 26, 2019, Natalie is taken into custody. She's been indicted on 26 counts, including aggravated identity theft, wire fraud, bank fraud, and bankruptcy fraud. Sachi, will you take a look at this photo of her perp walk? Oh, yeah, old girl is mad. She appears to be in chains, and she looks like she would like to speak to the manager.

Yeah. Natalie is placed on full house arrest, and Jessica waits for what might be the biggest trial in recent memory in West Virginia. The trial date gets delayed a few times, mostly because of COVID, until it finally gets scheduled for September 2020. When the date arrives, Natalie decides to plead guilty in the face of overwhelming evidence. In March 2021, at her sentencing hearing,

her victims finally get the chance to testify. Remember Jeff, the banker who gave Natalie that loan? Sachi, will you read what he said at the hearing? He said, quote, in 20-some years of doing this, I've seen every type of criminal, crook, liar, financially manipulative package, and they all pale in comparison

to what Natalie Cochran did. Natalie is sentenced to 11 years in prison. Jessica, like most of the community, is happy that the victims are finally getting some justice. But while Natalie's financial crimes seem to have been resolved, they're still the matter of Michael's death. And when the justice system finally moves

to hold Natalie accountable, her story will go from local scandal to a national media frenzy. Donna is grimly satisfied on May 1st, 2021, when Natalie reports to a medium-security women's prison a few hours away from her home. She's glad Natalie is being punished for her financial crimes, but Donna still wants justice for her son.

So she's relieved when Natalie is indicted for first-degree murder on November 19th after about six months in prison. In January 2022, Donna watches Natalie plead not guilty during her arraignment. And now that it's a murder trial, the case is getting more attention. Multiple national media outlets report on the hearing, and Dateline and 2020 have started sniffing around. Things have been really hard for Donna,

and not just because of the money Natalie stole. Natalie's kids, Donna's grandchildren, believe their mother is innocent, and they've completely cut Donna out of their lives. The last text she got from her grandson was in August 2019, and it read, quote, don't text me anymore, I'm going to block you. You never loved us.

We know that now. I mean, I just feel sad for those kids. Like, what are they supposed to do? Like, turn on their mom? Of course, it's terrible. Like, these kids are being traumatized. I mean, it is just, like, one of those very grim situations. But Donna tries to stand strong.

She knows she's on the right side. But it gets harder as the trial keeps getting delayed. You might think she'd be devastated in April 2023 when the charges are dropped, but Donna has been assured it's only so Michael's body can be exhumed for further testing. Donna probably doesn't love the idea of her son's grave being disturbed again, but she's committed to seeing justice done. Turns out, it's hard to prove that someone was killed. by insulin. Because insulin dissolves quickly in the body, testing it years later is nearly

impossible. But the prosecution brings in Dr. Paul Uribe, a top forensic pathologist who is an expert in insulin cases. He analyzes Michael's body and concludes that insulin is the only possible cause of death and that Michael's death was a homicide. Natalie gets charged with murder again in October 2020, and pleads not guilty again in January 2024. But the trial keeps getting delayed, and Donna is not happy. Sachi, will you read what she wrote on Facebook? Yeah, quote, I have attended every hearing, pre-trial, status trial, motion trial, etc. for our son, Michael Brandon Cochran.

We are very frustrated with all of the delays and continuances. It has been almost six years, and we've been patient. patiently waiting. We remain strong in our faith knowing that she, Natalie Cochran, will be held accountable and there will be justice for Michael Brandon. The judicial system sucks, Sarah. It's just shitty. Even when it kind of works, it doesn't work. I know. It's like every moment she has to go through this trauma, it's not working. But Donna's prayers are finally granted when the trial is confirmed for January 2025. Donna will be there, of course, But it's not just her.

By now, the entire country is paying attention. Court TV will be broadcasting live as Natalie finally stands trial for murder. Natalie has already been brought to justice for her Ponzi scheme. But now, she must answer for her biggest crime of all. It's your man, Nick Cannon, and I'm here to bring you my new podcast, Nick. Canon at night. I've heard y'all been needing some advice in the love department. So who better to help than yours truly? Now, I'm serious. Every week, I'm bringing out some of my celebrity friends and the best experts in the business to answer your most intimate relationship

questions. Having problems with your man? We got you. Catching feelings for your sneaky link? Let's make sure it's the real deal first. Ready to bring toys into the bedroom? Let's talk about it. Consider this a non-judgment zone to ask your questions when it comes to sex and modern dating in relationships, friendships, situationships, and everything in between. It's gonna be sexy, freaky, messy, and you know what? You'll just have to watch this show.

So don't be shy. Join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Want to watch episodes early and ad-free? Join Wondery Plus right now. All eyes are on Natalie when she finally enters the courtroom for her murder trial.

She looks markedly older with wrinkles, glasses, and the speckling of gray hair. But she's composed, and she's settled on a legal strategy. It's all Michael's fault. Natalie has told her side of the story a few times, but this is where it all comes together. Her lawyers argue that Michael was an aggressive, abusive husband, juiced up with steroids and supplements. He was the one who pressured her into starting the Ponzi scheme, and he died of natural causes related to all of the drugs he was using.

Sure, Natalie pled guilty to operating the Ponzi scheme, but really, Michael was the one in charge. Natalie sits at the defense table as her attorney delivers the opening statement. He says, Natalie Cochland is not a nice person. She cheated, she scam. and she has paid for. But ladies and gentlemen of the jury,

the fact that she is perhaps a fraud and perhaps a cheat and that you wouldn't perhaps want to invite her home for Sunday dinner that you wouldn't like her does not translate into being a murder. Can you imagine the case against you being so weak that the argument has to be

that you have done almost all of the other crimes except for murder? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like, listen, she may be rotten, a thief, willing to dupe her best friends and family. But that doesn't mean she's a killer. Not a great defense, in my opinion. Mm-hmm. But it makes sense the defense chooses to villainize Michael.

Getting people to sympathize with Natalie is hard. It doesn't help that she spends most of the trial with this look on her face. Sachi, can you describe it? Uh, I would call this face tightly smug. She looks like a little distressed, but mostly looks like a cat with a bird in her mouth. Yes, you know, I don't always think people's faces are telling in these moments, but knowing what I know, I mean, she definitely is just smug. Yeah.

After five days of witnesses, including Tim, Chris, and Dr. Uribe, the prosecution rests. And Natalie's lawyer calls the star witnesses for the defense, Natalie and Michael's children. The son is under 18, so court TV can't show his face or use his real name. The kids say Michael was controlling, he had expensive tastes, and that he was abusing supplements and steroids. At first, Natalie also plans to testify, but at the last minute, she pulls out. After years of telling stories, lying and going out of her way to manipulate others, it seems Natalie has finally found one instance where it's better to say nothing.

So the defense rests. They've spent the entire trial trying to add noise to Michael's death and to the financial crimes that led up to it. But the prosecutors managed to tell the entire story in their closing statement. And they present the jury with a clear timeline that makes it impossible for them to deny Natalie's guilt. After deliberating for less than two hours, the jury comes back with a verdict.

Guilty. But before the trial, Perhaps Natalie's victims and Michael's family will finally get the last word. The day after Natalie is found guilty, Donna puts on a green-flowered dress, brushes her long gray hair, and heads back to the courthouse for one last hearing. Today's hearing is for the jury to determine whether or not they will grant Natalie mercy. Normally, when someone is convicted of first-degree murder in Westchester, Virginia, the default sentence is life without parole.

But there's a special provision. If the jury decides to grant mercy, the defendant is potentially eligible for parole after 15 years. Donna watches as Natalie cries and as Natalie's final supporters try to defend this now-convicted murderer. Natalie's mother tries to assert that Natalie is innocent and never scammed them. Worst of all for Donna, she has to watch Natalie's children. her grandchildren cry and beg to see their mother outside of prison.

The whole thing is emotionally raw and heartbreaking to watch, and it's just as intense when Michael's friends and family get their turn to speak. Chris breaks down crying on the stand. Tony describes how awful it was for her son to have his scholarship pulled out from under him. But the real kicker comes when Donna takes the stand. She puts on her glasses as she reads her. prepared statement. It's eight pages long and contains years of Donna's bottled rage. After a few objections by the defense, she isn't allowed to read the whole thing. But she gets

through more than enough. Through tears, Donna talks about Natalie's lack of remorse. She mentions the pain of Natalie choosing to slander Michael's good name again and again. And she talks about the painful loss of her relationship with her grandchildren. She makes the case for the jury to deny Natalie any mercy. This evil narcissistic sociopath, intentionally and knowingly pre-planned and committed first-degree premeditated murder stealing the life of our son. Judge, please don't fall for her con. That's what Natalie does.

She only cares about herself. She will use, abuse, and manipulate anyone to get in her way. But we know the real Natalie Cochran, the thief, the liar, the taker of life, and the doer of evil deeds. We ask that you, please, please, no mercy. She never gave Michael any mercy. In the end, the jury agrees with Donna. Natalie Cochran becomes the first woman in West Virginia since 1991 to be found guilty of murder without receiving a recommendation for mercy.

She will spend the rest of her life in prison. Natalie is currently serving her life sentence. She filed for an acquittal, but it was denied. She will likely appeal. No one has their money back, but at least they have justice for Michael. Well, Sachi, not only was this the worst type of, Ponzi scheme to the point where basically everyone she took money from had some type of personal

relationship with her. It also resulted in her murdering her own husband. I think what I can't get over about this case is it seems like she maybe would have gotten away with the money stuff if she hadn't have murdered her husband. Yeah, I mean, the sloppiness of this Ponzi scheme was that no one saw any return at all. For Ponzi schemes, oftentimes there's months of summer returns, there's enough robbing Peter to pay Paul, whatever, like, you know, someone's not getting their money, but someone else's. She had no business, no contracts, no way of keeping people satisfied with any level of payment. It was just people giving her money. These crimes were so ambitious and there was hardly any effort to really think about what she could get away

with and to me it kind of signals to like this woman is and probably always has been just extremely arrogant in what she believes people think about her she was right for a while like it worked but she has so much confidence she couldn't even cover her tracks properly i wonder if her children still feel the way that they did during the trial or if this conviction she's not going to get parole if that has changed their understanding of what's happening because there's so much like parental alienation in this like they have such distrust of their grandparents but now they're just like these children on board in the world so I wonder where else they've turned to I feel so bad for the kids because they know how they grew up maybe there was stuff going on with their parents or

their parents fought or they saw their mom as a victim but regardless of what they saw they're the ones who were kind of manipulated by their mom in like the craziest way. At the point of the investigation and the trial, they were so under their mom's spell that they were able to like justify her being a murderer, her murdering their father. There also is the gun element of it all and the defense contracts and all that kind of stuff. I was just kind of struck by how like even her lie was evil. My scam is that I'm working in acquiring guns and weapons for the Department of Defense. And here are some guns for the little baseball players. It's crazy. Her whole thing was evil from the get. Like she was inspired by war dogs. There is nothing warm or positive or well-intentioned about

this woman. She started from a really weird, nefarious place. Yeah. Evil is the word. I mean, I think there's also something to be said about the fact that she was scamming people who have the same values as her. So she's able to kind of get at them easier. That's the benefit of going after people within your community and not just, you know, any stranger, which also makes this even more evil than it is on face value. Yeah, I mean, I bet there are so many people in the community who just, like, didn't have the money to invest or couldn't for some reason and probably felt left out and like, cool, now I'm not going to be a millionaire who are just like, thank God I was broke. Yeah, the money is extremely gone. Yeah, totally.

Very gone. Bigly gone. Starting off the store, you don't really know where it's going to go, but it does kind of get into national news frenzy territory. Dateline in 2020 and Court TV added this other layer for these people. Again, small community in a small town, never really thought their names would be known. How one person can just upend everything will never not shock me. You know, Sarah, I think, unfortunately, our show loves to remind us that we are perpetually at the whim of other people.

And all we can do is hope that our wives or husbands don't scam us and or murder us. And that is why I am divorced. All roads lead back to divorce, Haggy. Woo! Did it again. Well, you know what? Some of us are unmarried and can't get divorced, okay? There's still time.

You can do it any time. Yeah, and I have to find someone to marry me. I'll do it. Okay, okay, let's get divorced. Loving scam influencers, get exclusive episodes and early access to new ones all ad-free on Wondry Plus. Join now in the Wendry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Before you go, help us out by taking a quick survey at Wendry.com slash survey. This is Natalie Cochran.

The Pharmacist Fem Fatal Part 2. I'm Sarah Haggy. And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at scamfluencers at Wendry.com. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were Jessica Ferrish's reporting for the Register Herald, the 2020 episode Small Town Big Con,

and the interview work of the podcast, Creepalachia. Rachel Borders wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Zachi Cole and Sarah Hagi. Eric Thurm is our story editor, backchecking by Gabrielle Jolet, sound designed by James Morkin. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Frieson Sink. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Pluze.

Janine Cornelow and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie Magruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enni and Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louie, and Aaron O'Flaherty for Wondry.