Scheananigans with Scheana Shay - Digging In with “Mormon Wives” Star Demi Engemann

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

This week, Scheana continues the conversation with “Secret Lives of Mormon Wives” star Demi Engemann. They touch on how Demi’s struggles with postpartum mental health affected her first marriage, the pitfalls of co-parenting and blending families, along with how the pandemic sparked her love story with Bret (and kept him from returning to film “The Bachelorette” once cameras went back up). How did Demi get her start in #MomTok, and who was she closest to before filming? Has that changed since? Also, Demi responds to both Whitney’s claim that she withdrew from the group after Demi revealed something deeply personal about her, along with Chase McWhorter’s confirmation that Demi & Bret had attended those “soft swinging” parties. Plus, while Zac & Ben Affleck may not be related, apparently Zac is a cousin to one of Scheana’s VPR castmates?! Tune in to find out!  Follow us: @scheananigans @scheana Guest: @demilucymay The video version of this episode will be available on Scheana’s YouTube page on Friday, October 11th.Episode Sponsors:Head to acorns.com/goodasgold or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today! Support everyday wellness with Liquid I.V. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid I.V. when you go to LiquidIV.com and use code HONEY at checkout.Head to FactorMeals.com/goodasgold50 and use code goodasgold50 to get 50% off your first box and 20% off your next month. Go to Quince.com/honey for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi, I'm Tabriah Majors. I'm a model, an influencer, and a new mom who's not afraid to be open and honest or challenge the status quo. I may know what I'm doing in front of the camera, but parenting is all new and there's a lot I want to learn. Every week on this season of Milk Drunk, we'll get real with trusted experts, parents, friends, and more to learn together

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All right, so Lisa obviously had to leave, but I wanted to continue the conversation with you because I have so many things I've been wanting to ask you just from watching the show, getting to know you, following you, and yeah, are you ready to get into some more shenanigans? I'm so excited. Let's do it. We said that at the same time.

Oh, that's cute. Now we touched on this a bit with Lisa, but I would just love to hear more about your relationship with your husband, Brett. What really happened with the fruity pebbles and all things. Can you say, have you said yet? I haven't, nope. I've decided to just keep the mystery alive.

Okay. There's this whole serial gate going around and everyone is so, like they speculate as to what it could be. They are so curious. I get probably 20 tags a day in like stories of people talking about it or tagging me in something Fruity Pebbles related.

And so I'm just like, you know what? This is amazing. It gets people talking and it's just like a funny thing to keep alive. So no, I haven't revealed it yet and I don't plan to. Okay. Not yet anyway. Maybe season two.

Yes, maybe, or maybe season four or five. We'll see. We'll see how comfortable we get. Now has Fruity Pebbles reached out to sponsor you yet? No, and I actually asked my manager, I'm like, what can we do about this? Like, I need to capitalize on this. And she was like, you have to remember,

it's like a kid's cereal brand. And this was like a sex scandal. I was like, yeah, I didn't really put that together. So probably not a good collaboration. Yeah. But I mean, we could get creative. There's gotta be a way, you know? I do have a potential collaboration coming though

that we might implement serial. So stay tuned for that. Cause it'll be fun. All right, but let's back to Brett minus the Fruity Pebbles. So on the show, I think, did you mention that you've known Brett like since you were younger or most of your life? Yeah, so I knew of him when I was like a little girl

because my best friend's dad and him were like good family friends Okay, and he was the star quarterback at BYU. His family was in the Entertainment industry his dad managed Marie Osmond Worked at Capitol Records for years and then his sister was married to Larry King Okay And so everyone kind of knew who the Ingamins were. And then with my best friend's dad being like good friends with him,

I would always hear about him. But it's just a funny, like running joke that we have that I've known him since I was 10 and he was 26, because I technically did know of him, but we, by the grace of God, never met until I was like 20 years old, luckily, because that would have been really weird if I could actually be like, yeah, he used, like I used to sit on his lap when I was like 20 years old luckily because that would have been really weird if I could actually be like yeah he used like I used to sit on his lap when I was little

that would be really gross and horrendous so that's not the case I knew of him just because he was like the all-star program boy you know okay and then how did you guys reconnect later on so just through that connection and social media of, my ex-husband and I ran into him at the gym and he, I think, was going through his second divorce. And we were like, what is going on? Like, what is your luck? And we were like, you need to go on The Bachelor. And he was like, no way.

And I was like, I told my ex-husband, I'm like, let's nominate him. And so- Wait, so you did? So we did. They called him the next day and they like flew him out for like interviews and everything and he called I think my husband at the time and was like you guys suck like I do not want to do this we were like just go like what's the worst that could happen you know and he was like okay you're right like I already

haven't had the best of luck like I'm just gonna give it a go so he went out flew out did it and meanwhile my husband my ex-husband and I are like going through it and we're like, are we gonna like work this out? Are we not? And we finally decided to call it quits. And around the same time COVID happens, Brett gets sent home right before he meets Claire and he like reactivates his Instagram account

and I see that he posts. And I was like, what are you doing home? Like, what's going on? Like, he's like, everything got shut down, production got shut down. We're gonna go back out in like July. And then he had mentioned something cause my ex husband and him were like

working on a business deal together or like they had a connection in business. And he was like, let Blake know that whatever, I talked to so and so and I was like, well, funny you should mention like we actually just separated. And he was like, what? So it was like in the time that he was like gone,

shooting and whatnot. And this had been like a couple of years in the works of like me figuring out like where we were, where we were, what we were gonna do with my ex husband and everything, but just the timing of it all. It was like, okay, call it quits, bracket sent home. And then he's the shoulder that I cry on. And it was just like a quick immediate like connection

and just off to the races from the start. Yeah, kind of crazy. That's crazy how things just work out. I know wild. Yeah, did you have any hesitations with the age gap? Yes, but my ex-husband and I were 12 and a half years apart. Okay. 11 and a half or 12 and a half, I can't remember.

So I was kind of used to that in a sense. And I wouldn't even say, I mean, maybe two parts to this. I wouldn't necessarily say that the reason my ex-husband and I didn't work out was the age gap. Although I will say that like there was a life experience there that I'm like, oh man, if I was a little bit more emotionally mature, would I have made the same decisions?

But I was used to that. And it like, it really does get to a point in your relationship where you feel like you're the same age or there's times where like, us women were so much more mature than men naturally anyway. So there were times where I felt like I was older than my ex and then vice versa. And so it feels very similar in that sense

where it feels like I've done it before because I kind of have. So, but there are moments for sure. Like when we sit there and I'm like, what were you doing in, you know, this year? And I'm like, I was one, you know, and he's like learning how to drive. And I'm like, what is going on? You know, there's those crazy. There's the weird moments that get to me and I'm like, OK, come back to earth.

Like everything's OK, you know. Totally. Well, despite the age difference being similar to me and I'm like, okay, come back to earth. Like everything's okay, you know? Totally. Well, despite the age difference being similar in this marriage, you now have blended your families. So what were the biggest challenges with just starting that and becoming a stepmom to older kids? Yeah, that was wild because I'm closer in age

to my oldest stepson than I am to Brett. So like put that together. It's so weird. Like I just turned 30 and he's gonna turn 20 in February. And I'm like, I'm so glad we're just not in the twenties together. Cause that would have been so freaking weird. But it was very, very challenging in the beginning

because I'm coming into the picture 25 years old with a three-year-old. And then you have like these 11, 12-year-olds and 14-year-olds, and they're heading into the most like pivotal years of their life. Like teenage years, you know? And they're so used to living a certain way, you know, like their dad's now been divorced if you don't count the second marriage because it was

like a blip, you know, it was like a five month thing. So really their dad's been single majority of their life and like single dad plus two boys like you can imagine it's like they're just like little wrestling bros, you know? And then you have a woman come into the picture and she's like she has a daughter and I'm protective of my daughter in these in this situation with the boys and I'm trying to like manage that, make sure everything's kosher there, you've heard all the horror stories that can go down there so I'm like extra cautious there and then also I'm a woman and I'm naturally

like, okay, let's get a system in place. Let's, what are the rules? What are the ground rules? You know? And so I think me coming in kind of disrupted what they had going on. And then also it was just like anything else. It just takes time to have it feel like normal, you know? And so I give myself grace and I give like everyone grace in the situation because it's the most like unnatural thing ever to come in and like start helping to raise someone else's children and then also like hand off the baton of like Okay Now you're helping like raise my children and now hey mod here are your step brothers And I know you just met them but like I treat them like family and then we're all under the same roof and it's like

It was a lot like that was so much like that time in my life was like one of the darkest times in my life. I think specifically because I jumped into that so quickly without properly processing a full last marriage to my ex husband and a full divorce and then allowing like my daughter, like it's the biggest guilt trip I go through, like almost daily is not allowing my daughter to process that before jumping in and being like, here's a new man and now we're kissing each other and like, and here's two boys that you're just expected to jump in and blend, you know?

And it's like, it was hard for the boys and that like, I'm not discrediting that at all, but at least they were older and you could explain that. Like, you have a three year old, so you know. Like, if all of a sudden you're just like kissing on another guy and she's like, what? You know, like, I just think back and I'm just like, oh, Demi, like, you could have handled that so much better.

You could have given yourself time, given your daughter time. And I think when I'm looking back, like hindsight's 2020, but looking back, I think for me, I just was like so desperate for connection and desperate for a relationship that didn't feel like a roommate relationship. And one that just felt like I was excited and there were fireworks and we had like the same vision and goals and like we were inseparable. And like I found that in Brett. And so I just got so caught up in like the excitement of it all and there are so many things I would have done differently and things that if I had known better and

Like, you know, you all we all go through that where you know better you do better But like if I had known better I definitely would have taken more time and like given my daughter more time to process and It's a long-winded answer of saying that I would definitely do things differently. Yeah. But it kind of just gives a little sneak peek into like the challenges of blending a family and how important it is to, you know, give yourself the time. There's no rush. And I think I felt so rushed, you know.

Yeah, I feel like watching the first season of Y'all's show, we didn't get that much of a backstory with the individual relationships, your kids and all of that. And I hope, you know, like a season two, three, we get a dive deeper into your personal lives because I'm so interested to find out all of these things. And then I've learned things so much just from reading articles now, things about Macy's past and whatnot, where I'm like, why didn't we talk about any of this? I feel like the husband's, you know, minus really Dakota and Zach, we're just kind of

like background. You didn't see that much or get to know this. And it's so interesting. And also something I feel like that's so relatable to anyone who's blending a family. Right? Yeah. No, I feel the same. I really hope that we get more into that type of stuff

in season two. I just think it's, you know, you don't know any of this stuff until you go through it. Like you can somewhat empathize to a degree, but like once you go through it, you're like, oh, I understand. So I've gained so much empathy for anyone who's gone through a divorce from anyone

who's lost a spouse or who has had to blend a family like I just I my heart goes out to those people and I want people to feel, you know, less alone in that and understand that like, hey, it's OK, like it's a process, it's a journey. And so I hope that we get to deep dive into that a little bit more for sure. For sure. So how are things going now? I'm sure there's just, you know, new challenges, navigating a reality show and everything that comes with that. You know, the peanut gallery online, just giving their opinions.

For sure. How have you guys been just as a couple since the show aired? Honestly, good. I we say all the time that this show put us in so many situations that we wouldn't have otherwise been in had we, you know, not gone through this. Yeah. That really tested our marriage, tested like, you know, where we are with ourselves and how like sure we are of ourselves and our, you know, our connection and our trust and all of those things.

And so it's been really, really good for us. Like I think that we always had like a really good, strong connection, but then like, you know, you need to build on that. It's not a relationship, isn't just that connection. It's like, you know, you need to build on that. It's not a relationship isn't just that connection. It's like, you know, testing the waters and the boundaries and like really seeing how people are going to react and like, leaning on each other through hard things. And

I really do like I'm grateful that I experienced all that I have in this journey, because it's strengthened our relationship, it's strengthened the trust, the communication. And we're in a really good spot right now. So. That's amazing. Yeah, it's been great. Yeah, cause I feel like, I mean, I've been doing this

11 years, you know, failed marriage now on my second. And just- Oh, I didn't know you were married before. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so we got engaged, married and divorced all on the show. Wow.

Yeah. And then I had a couple of single seasons and then a pandemic and then boom, here's my new boyfriend who's now my husband. No. So going through just all of that on television, you know, for the whole world to just judge and give their opinions. It can absolutely be challenging at times, but it also shows how strong you are if you can get through that together. Absolutely. Yeah. That's crazy. I had no idea. That's a lot.

All for the world to see. Yeah. Praying that that's not me. Let's pray we can keep it strong and keep it together. Communication, you know, just like always being open with your partner. And the one thing that I've done differently in my current marriage is I'm putting it all out there.

If we fight on camera, we fight on camera. In my first marriage, I tried to hide all of that. I tried to just lie to myself and everyone around me thinking if I tell everyone it's perfect, then it'll just be perfect. And like, we'll get over it and just deal with it in private and it's like, that's not what I signed up for. And I feel like just being more open about it,

yeah, you may get shit sometimes, but it's real. No relationship is perfect. Everyone has disagreements and arguments and that's natural. Totally, yeah. No, I hope we get to showcase a little bit more into that because we have our things for sure. And like, trust me, just the aspect of like co-parenting

and blending a family, like bring so many different discussions that only people who are going through that understand and being able to work through that instead of like throwing in the towel, I think is so inspiring. So I hope that they showcase a lot more of that content. Definitely. We're going to take one quick little break and we'll be right back. All right. This episode of Shenanigans is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing for your future. Something I think is so important for my family, for my daughter,

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provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Investing involves risk. Acorns advisors, LLC, and SEC registered investment advisor view important disclosures at acorns.com slash good as gold. Okay, and here's something I'm really looking forward to as the weather turns cooler. There's football games, of course. Pumpkin spice lattes are in season. I'm obsessed, but also slipping into a cozy sweater from Quince. I feel like we're almost there. It's cooling down at night.

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Go to quince.com slash honey for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash honey. So you get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash honey. So although we didn't get to see a lot of it this season, hopefully you know, there's many, many more seasons to come. I know you've been very outspoken about your mental health journey across your platforms and specifically your postpartum struggles. You had indicated in

the past that going into your pregnancy with your daughter, Maude, you felt your marriage was in a good place. And then after dealing with postpartum depression and anxiety, your world and your marriage just kind of got thrown for a loop. Do you think the cracks were already there in the foundation of your first marriage? And then when you hit that bump in the road, they were exposed? That's a good question. Probably. I think the safe answer is most likely I've always kind of struggled with my mental health. And it's just like a long standing thing in my family. And so I think there were definitely signs there. And it's weird because there was almost like this

foreshadowing that happened. I remember being terrified of postpartum depression and I didn't know why. I just, I knew that like I had struggled with depression in the past. And so I was like reading these articles about these people that just have these psychotic breaks. And I was like, what if that's me? And I remember, you know, to my ex-husband's credit, like he's a guy and he has like, he wakes up every single day and he's just as happy as can be. And I'm like, good for you. Couldn't be me. That's my husband too. But yeah, but it's like harder for them to understand or like empathize or validate that because they don't know what it feels like. And so I just remember being like, what if that's me?

And I remember being nervous with his response because I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was around something about like, well, it's kind of in your head. You just gotta push through it and just choose to be happy or choose to like get up and do something about it. And to a degree, I understand what he's saying, especially coming from a place of not understanding what that feels like when you're just like such a prisoner of it. But I remember

being terrified. I was like, please Lord, don't let this happen to me because he doesn't get it. Like he doesn't understand what it's like to be like debilitated by this feeling. And that was kind of the start of me like being really worried about it. And then it hit me like a ton of bricks. Like it was so bad. And it was everything that I like feared, you know, times a thousand. And I won't go into it too much because I am hoping

to like uncover a lot of these things in the season and be able to like share and inspire and hopefully feel, extend what I've been through and lend that empathy and understanding to other people who have gone through it. Moms are not, who are struggling with their mental health, but it's very real and something that was just so jarring and crazy that just hit me like a ton of bricks. And I truly am like shocked that I'm still sitting here

because it was so dark and I don't wanna cry, but like it was like the darkest thing I've ever been through. And I don't think it's talked about enough. And what I will say is it led me to discovering different healing modalities that saved and changed my life that like I shout from the rooftops, like I love talking about ketamine and like body coding

and figuring out what's going on at the root and why our body's reacting the way that it is. And like, I'm very passionate about talking about the ways to be able to work through those things and cope and manage and heal those things because there are so many different incredible modalities out there to help with that. And so I'm very passionate about talking about that. Yeah. Ketamine was a huge one for me.

Like I've always been so intrigued with that. I had crazy postpartum OCD, which is something that's often misdiagnosed. Didn't even know it existed. Yeah. And once I started talking about it, I ended up recently at the International OCD Foundation speaking and receiving their illumination award for just being outspoken about postpartum OCD and things that I had no idea. Paranatal OCD.

All of these things I didn't know existed. And by us having platforms and talking about it, there are so many people we're helping. So I commend you for being open about it because it's not something easy to talk about when you're going back to some of the darkest times in your life. But it helps so many people know I'm not alone. Oh, that's an intrusive thought.

I thought I was going fucking crazy. Like now I know that it's just, you know, it's not just me. Yes. So I'm so sorry that you dealt with that. I know exactly what that feels like. It's terrifying. Yeah, no, it was gnarly. You're your worst enemy.

It's like you're fighting yourself while trying to take care of like another human on top of it. So did you struggle with OCD before as well? Yes, but not on this level. Okay. It was more like numbers and organization and just certain things like that. But then my whole pregnancy I started to just have crazy intrusive thoughts. I had this gnarly dream that the first time I held her, her head fell off and I put it back on and she was okay. And then I woke up in a panic and I was like, oh my God. So like the second she came out, I was just like,

support the neck, support the neck, support the head. It was like, I was terrified that she would stop breathing. So I had a family member lose their child to Sid's. And it was just so many things that I was worried about every single thing. It's gotten better. She's three and a half now, but it's still there. So many things that I was worried about every single thing. Yeah. It's gotten better. She's three and a half now, but it's still there.

Yeah. I recently got back on Zoloft cause it was just, it's still there. Yeah, totally. No, I can totally relate. I've been through that and it is the most like debilitating, gross feeling in the world. Yeah.

And you feel so unfit to like be their mother sometimes because the thoughts that come through your mind, I don't know for you, but like a lot of the thoughts that were going through my mind were like me harming her. And it's like, whoa, you like have to literally be like, why would I even think that? And you're like, wait. And so understanding that those thoughts aren't yours

is so empowering and so important because so many mothers, I'm sure go through this and they're like, I'm a terrible person. Yeah. And it's like, no, you're not. You are going through so much hormonally. Like I wish you understood. I know. I'm so happy to hear that you're talking about it as well because more people need to be aware of it and like understand that they're not alone. Yeah. And it's like, there are so many resources and different types of therapy. Like have you done EMDR? I haven't, no, but I've heard a lot of good things

about it. Have you done it? So I've done that, but I haven't done Ketamine therapy. Let's swap. Right? Walk me through EMDR and I'll walk you through Ketamine. Yeah. So tell me about when you started Ketamine therapy,

how many times you've done it and just how that's helped you. Oh, I'm going to cry talking about it. Like I'm already so like, that was such a huge thing for me. It's like a two part like emotional thing for me because it was introduced to me by my ex-husband. And so it's funny how in one sentence I'm like, I was so worried at him not being able to like understand and like empathize and like be there for me. And then like, he literally saved my life. So it's ironic.

But his father-in-law actually administers ketamine. And by that, I mean, he's a doctor and he administers it through an IV and then he kind of walks you through the process of what that looks like, and what you're going to experience. And that's, again, something I'm really wanting to dive into in season two, and so I won't ruin that storyline. But basically, it's just helping you,

if you've experienced any hallucinogen or any drug where you just experience the happy hormones, where it just kind of like, you lower your just, you know, experience like the happy hormones, where it just kind of like, you lower your guard, your ego, and you're able to just like be authentically you and just like feel, like feel like this amount of love that you've never experienced before and really tap into yourself. I think that's what was so like such a game changer for me

was that I'd been my worst enemy all my life and I always felt like I was the problem and like these thoughts going through my head about my daughter it was like I like I'm I'm not safe like she's not safe with me I'm not a good mom and like then going through divorce I was like I ruined that Like I always felt like the problem. And so like seeing myself and like falling in love with myself for the first time really was like, whoa, I'm like, I'm an amazing person. And I never felt that about myself.

And it really just helps you like understand that like, you have all the answers within yourself. You have everything you need right here. Like there's nothing in the world that you could experience or like find or buy or, you know, do that's gonna bring you that ultimate peace and joy and happiness. Like everything you have is inside you.

And that was like the biggest game changer for me. And then also on top of that, like it changes your actual like matter in your brain. Like it rewires your brain pathways. So if you've experienced trauma, abuse, you know, it helps a lot with addiction and PTSD and it literally goes in and helps rewire the brain pathways that have been broken through those things.

And so it's just such an incredible thing and something that I have felt so strong and like very like impressed to just share because I'm like this saved my life. It changed the way I view the world. It changed the way I view myself, changed my relationship with my daughter. I have a beautiful relationship with my ex husband and his wife and like Brett and him are best friends. I'm so close to his wife and like I don't think those things would be possible

if I hadn't experienced that rewiring and the ability to just like lower my ego and just be able to like feel that amount of love. And that was all experienced through ketamine. So I'm like, I feel very passionate about it. Totally. EMDR is similar in where it rewires your brain. Yeah.

And it's a completely different process. Okay. But I would go into it and be sobbing, trying to get to the next thought. And it's like, by the end of it, I'm like, why was I crying two hours ago? Like, it's so crazy how you walk in one way and feel

completely other way when you leave. Wow. And it's through sound, correct? So it's buzzing. Like the way I do it, there's a light bar that you're following back and forth and you have these buzzers in your hand. So it's just different sensory things. And you're focusing on one thought and then it's just you let your brain go wherever it goes. And each session I've done focuses on a different aspect. One I focused on when I got bullied in junior high and how that's affected my life as an

adult. One I focused on my pregnancy loss. And so each time I've done different triggers and traumas that I've had and it's really helped. And it's all brought in like you are pinpointing those traumas that I've had. And it's really helped. And it's all brought in, like you are pinpointing those traumas yourself. Okay, so you don't have anyone there that you're sitting there expressing a way that you're feeling and-

My therapist is in the room with me. Okay, okay. And then she'll say like, okay, and where did your brain just go? And I'm like, oh, I was just here. And there was one time where I'm like, sorry, I was just following the light. And she's like, that's okay, just we'll go with that. And then you start again.

Yeah. And so it's like, you have a prompt of what you want to go into that day. Like, I really wanted to focus on the pregnancy loss and my traumatic birth. And since I did that, nine out of 10 times, I can speak about that experience without completely sobbing every time. Okay, that's amazing. Yeah. Wow, I love that. I need to do that. No, it's crazy.

Because now when I talk about it, I'm like, am I an asshole for not sobbing when I'm talking about this? But I just rewired it where I'm like, this was a traumatic experience. My daughter is okay. I'm okay. We've worked through it. And now I can tell the story and not break down every single time. There's still the one. Okay, okay. We've worked through it and now I can tell the story and not break down every single time.

There's still the one. Okay. Okay. But I need that because when I bring up like my divorce, there's so much guilt and I bring up, you know, certain things with my daughter, like moments where I lost my mind, you know, and like freaked out at her and like those things. I will just sob, like sob at night thinking about them. And I'm like, I need to work through those things. So I need to try that. Yeah, and give yourself grace. Oh, you're sweet. Thank you.

It's so hard. I know it is. It's like easier said than done, but For sure. You're doing great. Thank you. You're so sweet. And I feel like we need to be told that more.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I feel that way all the time. I'm just like, my daughter will be having a fit and I'm like, I'm not doing this right. And then she's with my mom and she's an angel and then she's with me.. I'm just like, my daughter will be having a fit and I'm like, I'm not doing this right. And then she's with my mom and she's an angel and then she's with me and I'm just like. Yeah, or they like say that they hate you or that they, especially in a divorce situation,

like when she's like, we were just out of town and she was like missing her dad and she never misses me. Like it's always that she misses him. And so I'm like, is it cause I'm a bad mom? And I don't put that on her, but I'm sitting there and I'm like that's normal to miss your dad I get it and I'm comforting her and in the back of my mind I'm like wanting to bawl my eyes out and I'm like you but you never miss me like I'm sure she does I don't know I'd not in that way like normally

when she's on vacation I'll try to call and she's like I'm busy I'm having fun but like when we were on vacation it I'll try to call and she's like, I'm busy, I'm having fun. But like when we were on vacation, it was like every day she was like counting down the days to go home. And I was like, it's cause I'm a terrible mom. No, it's not. It's just girls and their dad. Maybe, yeah, that could be a thing for sure. I'll keep telling myself that.

Absolutely. Okay, thank you. Of course. Okay, so switching gears. I wanted to ask some questions about Whitney. I know there's probably some things you can't say, but I saw that, okay, so she had said that she withdrew from the group

after you shared the personal story about her doing ketamine treatment. Is that something taboo within your circle? Like did you know that would be so triggering for her? I didn't. And I honestly, if I, if I remembered that she had asked me not to share that, I would, that would have never come out of my mouth. But I also pride myself in being really good about not sharing other people's personal business anyway. I think it was the circumstance of, you know, Macy trying to defend her intention and then being like, wait, hold on, she told me something completely different.

Yeah. And they also didn't show that Layla had also said she told me that as well. And so she also told Layla that information. And so it's interesting because Layla has also said she never asked me not to say anything. And so, again, I have common sense and I'm self aware enough to know that like that was obviously a very sensitive thing. Hence why I hadn't told anyone that up until that point. But I think it was more so the moment of like, everything's heightened. We're seeing her

true colors come out. And then Macy sitting there defending her yet again and I'm like, Macy, wake up. And she's like, but that wasn't her intention. This was her intention. And it was just kind of like, it blurted out. And regardless of her asking me or not asking me, I don't remember that and I'm not gonna argue that. If she says that she asked me not to, then like, I feel bad.

I saw some speculation online that people thought she wrote the question for your question box game asking why Whitney didn't like Taylor as Whitney appeared to be the only person using blue paper for the game. Do you think she submitted that question? Good question. I don't know. I wasn't paying attention when we were all writing out the questions. So I don't know,

but I have seen those speculations that I'm like, Ooh, that's an interesting, that's an interesting thing to pick up on. Yeah. I mean, people, they'll see literally everything. Literally everything. And I'm like, man, there's so much to speculate and like so much going on

behind scenes, as you know, like so much going on behind scenes, as you know, like so much going on that I'm like, I miss a lot of it. I did see that one, but also I'm like, I don't have the time to break. No, I don't have the time to break down whether or not she went to, you know, what Whitney's doing. I don't know on that one. I genuinely don't know, but it's a funny speculation

and kind of a crazy one if that were to be true. If she did, what do you think the motive would have been? That's the thing, because I understand where people are coming from, if she would have, but I think that's such an obvious thing, especially because there's cameras there and they're watching us write down on papers. Yeah.

I don't know. Yeah. I don't know, maybe to be able to open up the conversation. Maybe she was feeling like I want to talk about this, but I'm too scared to bring it up. Or that, you know, she was getting more online hate for the RSV video versus Taylor for the swinging scandal. True. Or that too. Yeah. I don't know. All right. We're going to get into some more Whitney. We're just going to take another little break and we'll be right back. You know what?

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that she said she would like to have a conversation with the group first to see if there's a road forward and she'd like to understand where things went sour with everyone. Is that something you would be open to? I'm always open to remedying. I hate contention. I hate it. Like contrary to what people might believe because I stand up and say things and I step into situations that maybe I shouldn't and I'm outspoken. Truly, there's nothing that stresses me out more than contention.

Like if something goes down, I am the first to just be like, I don't give a shit how this makes me look, I'm calling this person right now. So I'm always open. I have a very clear idea of how it might go, but even with that said, I would go in completely open-minded and give her the chance to explain. The thing is, I don't think there's anything that really needs to be explained. I think that everyone just deserves an apology at this point.

Yeah. And I, it's not that I can, I can't move on without an apology. I can and I'll be fine and I'll sleep just fine at night. But it's more so like, if you can't acknowledge the participant, your participation in a situation and you can't at least try to see it from our perspective and take accountability for that, then it's very difficult to have a relationship. And so I hope she just understands that like,

if that's what she really wants and she does want that, she's gonna have to come in and take some heat and be able to like take, you know, hearing that things hurt people's feelings and that people aren't happy with her and be okay with that and be open to hearing why. Yeah. And I don't know if she's necessarily capable

of that right now. And so I don't know how productive a conversation would be, but again, super open to trying for sure. Time will tell. Yeah. Stay tuned. Stay tuned season two. Yeah.

How did you first join the group? How did mom talk become a part of your life? Yeah, I was doing social media. I think I have been doing social media the longest out of anyone. Okay. In Mom Talk. I've been doing it since my junior year of high school. Wow. Yeah. So how long is that now? That's like almost 12, 12, 13 years. Yeah, we didn't have social media when I was in high school. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, 12, 13 years. Yeah. We didn't have social media when I was in high school. Yeah. Yeah. Are you better?

Yeah. For sure. It was like the tail end of my high school career. Okay. And I was more like the photography, videography side. Like I was more content creation. And then I flipped and did like modeling for a while. And then I went into like influencing, but I'd been in social media for a long, long time time and so I had already kind of had somewhat of a platform and then I saw Taylor

and Miranda and Camille posting together and they were doing content and I was like that's so fun because then I would see that they would break off and do like little brand deals and stuff and I was like that's such a fun way to get together and like do brand deals and at the And I was like, that's such a fun way to get together and like do brand deals. And at the time I was like the breadwinner and this was like the bread and butter was my platform. And so I was like, I need to grow. And this is such a good, easy way to get together and bounce ideas off of each other and create content. And so I think I reached out to Taylor a couple of different times. And at that time, I think there was probably like seven or eight people in MomTalk. And she dodged me the first time and then I asked again and I was like, I want to come next time.

And so she finally like was like, OK, get on in. Then she invited me in. And that's how I got led into MomTalk. And then when I got brought in, there was like 15 of us. It grew to be like a group of like 20, I think. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like it was pretty massive before the whole scandal hit and everyone dispersed and ran away, like scared little ants.

But yeah, that's kind of how I joined MomTalk. OK, and then how did you end up on the show? Did someone recommend you? Ironically enough, Whitney did. So they had come to Whitney, all the top dogs, like all the ones that were just like soup, like popping off. And I was doing content with them still. It's funny because Taylor will be like the only person that's stood by my side and it will switch between like Macy and Whitney.

Yeah. And I'm like, I was there too. Like I never left you. I literally never left you. And so that's kind of how it happened. It was like a combination of I was still hanging out with them and making content and like, you know, I was still friends with them. And then also they were asking about potentially bringing on more people. And so Whitney suggested me and then I think Layla as well. So I have Whitney to thank for that, which I am grateful because I wouldn't have experienced it if she didn't push for me. So I'm grateful for her or to her for that. Okay. Prior to filming, who were you closest with? Prior to filming.

And has that changed with who you're closest with now? Yes, I was closest with Whitney and I would say Whitney, Taylor and Layla, I was probably the closest to and then that's shifted, you know, obviously. I'm really close to Jessie, really close to Macy, Michaela and Layla still. And then Taylor, obviously.

Really, I like have a really good relationship with everyone for the most part, other than like the strained relationship with Whitney, you know? There are little nuances and things for sure and like bumps in the road and things that we've had along the way and it's hard. Like, girlfriendships are hard. There's so much to navigate and especially when you add the entertainment industry on top of that and social media and brand deals and who's getting paid what. Like there's a lot that, you know, can cause friction.

Oh, totally. And so there's definitely things that have like happened along the way, but for the most part, like I'm in good standing with everyone. That's good. Yeah. Do you feel there's one girl in the group who's like the most competitive?

Yeah, Whitney, for sure. Yeah, yeah, I could see that. I think that everyone kind of sees that. Yeah. And I think she'd admit that, like, she admits that she needs control and that and we all like that to a certain degree. But when it's as telling and as like obvious as it is with, you know, Whitney and as it was in the show, I think it just that's when it causes problems.

Yeah. So, yeah, I would say Whitney for sure. How did you feel when you were categorized as sinner versus the saint? It didn't really make sense to me because I genuinely feel like I try my very best to lead a life of like following the Savior and trying my best to do what's right and progress and be better than I was the day before and like teach my children to like be kind and love one another and like I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't party, you know? And so I was like, wait, you're getting it all

wrong. But when I kind of saw that it was more, the divide was more with like the people who had been divorced and like had more of like a colorful past versus the people who hadn't. I was like, okay, actually, I see this, this makes sense. On the season, we saw that Brett was a big pillar of support for Taylor's then boyfriend, Dakota. What advice did Brett give him and do you feel that Dakota listened?

So Brett has a bit of a colorful past as well. And I think he can relate to a lot of what Dakota's been through. He post divorce had a really like dark short stint and got pretty, I wouldn't say like addicted, but dependent upon alcohol. And he ended up going to rehab, like checking himself into rehab and like going through all of that. And so he went through the whole 12 step process and had the context of going through something like that. And so I think it was just kind of like a blessing in disguise because he's now able to see Dakota who he sees kind of as like a younger brother who's

going through something similar, you know, to like like what he experienced and I think he was just able to understand where Dakota was but also just lend that empathy and relate to him and he gave him a lot of good advice. I did get to the point with him where I was like I don't think he's taking it you know I don't think he's taking the advice I don't think he's ready it. You know, I don't think he's taking the advice. I don't think he's ready to take it. Like he's hearing it, but he's not internalizing it. And so, but Brett's like relentless. He's just like the sweetest guy ever. He does not give up on people.

And he's just like, well, one day it'll click and like, it'll make sense. And like, maybe he needs to hit rock bottom. And he's just like so sweet with that. But he gave him so much good advice. Like I would listen in on a lot of their conversations. We would have conversations with like all four of us a lot of the time. And honestly, I just think it comes down to like where Dakota's at.

And I think it was such a like I got Brett 10 years post going through that. Dakota was like, what, six months post, you know, recovery. And so it was so fresh mixed with everything that Taylor was going through. And I think it was just like the perfect storm of just like both of them just in a very unhealed state. And so I feel for both of them. I really do.

Like I see so many different sides to both of them and to the relationship. And I honestly like, it's hard because so many people want to just like cast judgment on Dakota or on Taylor and just leave him, leave her, what are you doing? Like, and it's so much more complicated than that, especially now that they have a little baby involved. And so, yeah, we just want the best for them.

We want them both to be happy and healed and like steady and okay. Totally, Yeah. I was recently looking at an interview that was given to us weekly by Chase, who is the ex of one of the original Mom Talk Girls. And he said that you and Brett had frequented some of the parties where the soft swinging was happening, though he acknowledged neither of you participated. But did you know all of this was happening at those parties or like suspect anything? I had no idea. I had no clue.

It's crazy. It's crazy. And I've told this story so many times, so I feel like I'm just like a robot and on repeat. And no one believes that we had no clue. Like even Macy's like, you had no clue. And I'm like, guys, I understand. And I honestly think it's because I am so ultra aware and I like don't miss things.

Like I can read you in five seconds. So it's even bizarre to me that like, it wasn't even on my radar. I wasn't even like, even when they ask Brett those questions, like, are you the jealous type? Like I was like, oh, they're just getting to know us. I was so dumb. I'm like, weird question, but okay, you know?

And it's just so wild that I had no idea that any of it was going down. Like none. Like I picked up on behavior and I like saw that for what it was, but I- So friendly. Yeah. Or I was like, that was really flirty and like, no, maybe that, maybe they're just very loose

and they're just like chill. Maybe I'm uptight. I don't know. Like I just, I did not pick up on any of it. It's like one of my things in life that I'm like, I feel so dumb. I totally miss that. Yes. Yes. So did you find out on the TikTok live that Taylor did? Yes.

Wow. Yep. I found out the same way that everyone else did. Isn't that crazy? That's so crazy. It's so wild. Nuts. So I know you don't watch Vanderpump Rules, but one interesting thing I just saw yesterday on Instagram.

So my best friend on the show, Lala, is from Salt Lake. Okay. And everyone was going and doing the genealogy stuff with Zach to see if he was related to Ben Affleck. And it turns out that he's actually Lala's fourth cousin once removed on Zach's mom's side. No! Yeah. They share third great grandparents.

They descend from like LDS pioneer James Burningham and Jane Constania Shaw. And like there's pictures of them. And I sent it to Lala and both of our moms in a group chat and Lala was like, I want no part of this. No. It's like one of the other girls who used to be on our show Stassi

is a distant relative of Gypsy Rose. You're kidding. I was like, Lala, it's giving Stassi and Gypsy Rose. That is hilarious. All people in Salt Lake to be related to. Yeah, but I will say like, if you are, was she Mormon? No. Never, like none of her family members? Well, I think if they come from like, if you are, was she Mormon? No. Never what, like none of her family members?

Well, I think if they come from like the third great grandparents, they descend from that. And Burningham is her family name. So, generations. Yeah, and if you're from Salt Lake and he's from Salt Lake and there's generations of like Mormonism, like you're bound to connect in some way. It's just crazy that it's like fourth cousin.

Yeah. And I never first stand the once removed sort of thing. I'm like, huh? I think it's the kid. So it's like your cousins and then the kid makes you once removed. Oh, okay. So they're distant enough.

Yeah. And we're all related in the grand scheme of things. Right. Come on, you're my sister somewhere. Totally. So did they ever find out if he's actually related to them? Because that is like a burning question.

To Ben Affleck? Yeah. Everyone said no. They said there's no relation, but he is related to Lala Kent. What? Yeah. That is bizarre.

I know. Hey, I wonder if they're just genuinely confused then. Because the dad has met him and like why would they have met if they weren't related? I don't know. Bizarre. Wild. OK, we need to bring that up to her. I know, right? That's hilarious. Yeah. Well, thank you for getting into shenanigans with me. You guys can stream the first season of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives on Hulu

and follow Demi along with all of the other ladies on Mom Talk. Demi, Lucy, May. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much. This was so fun. So fun. So fun. Thanks for listening, guys.

Bye. Thanks for listening to Shenanigans with Sheena Shay. Tune in next time for juicy updates from the world of reality TV, pop culture and more. Download new episodes every week on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen.