Scheananigans with Scheana Shay - From Burning Man to Burial Plans w/ Kiki Monique & Krystina Arielle

Episode Date: September 11, 2026

How many nights did Bethenny Frankel actually survive Burning Man? Scheana reunites with Kiki Monique and Krystina Arielle to investigate whether Bethenny embraced the playa, or simply got the content and got the hell out, before debating exactly how quickly the dust, porta-potties and lack of normal showers would send each of them packing. Then, the conversation takes a serious turn with the Lindsay Clancy mistrial, what three jurors are now saying about the lone holdout, and whether an 11–1 deadlock raises bigger questions about justice, accountability and reasonable doubt. They also examine why Lindsay’s case became a national fixation while similar cases involving women of color received a fraction of the attention, as Krystina gets candid about racial bias and frightening disparities in healthcare her own family has experienced. And because there’s no graceful transition out of that conversation, the ladies pivot from murdered children to…murdered spouses. A murder-suicide involving a joint funeral has them reconsidering their own end-of-life plans: no shared funerals or adjoining burial plots with your murderer, make sure the family knows your wishes, and wait—does your will need to include your passwords now, too? Scheana also shares the updates she made to her will after finding out about her husband’s infidelity in 2023. Spoiler: they weren’t exactly in Brock’s favor. Finally, Krystina and her mom get their well-deserved flowers this week, and cancer earns the easiest Jax-Hole designation yet. Follow us: @scheana @scheananigans Co-Hosts: @thetalkofshame @krystinaarielle Purchase your very own copy of the NYT Best-selling book/audiobook MY GOOD SIDE at www.mygoodsidebook.com!Episode Sponsors:Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.com/shay to get personalized, affordable care that gets you.Join Wayfair Rewards today and get five percent back on every purchase. Head to Wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. To get 15% off your first order go to: REEF.com/GOODASGOLDGOLD or, use code GOODASGOLD at checkout.Shop at http://REVOLVE.com/GOODASGOLD and use code GOODASGOLD for 15% off your first order. #REVOLVEpartnerPlease note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. From Vanderpump rules to motherhood and everywhere in between. Warm up the kettle. It's time to spill some tea. Let's get into some shenanigans with Shea. She's a little bit back, getting the hair done today. I love it. She's like a little bit of self-care.

Yes. I get it. When you put a little makeup on, it just makes you feel a little better. Yeah, I have my lip loss today. I feel like growing up. The lip gloss is popping. The lip gloss is cool. Yeah.

All righty. And we're back. If you recognize those voices, that's Kiki and Christina. I'm so excited to be back in the studio with you girls. That's my favorite. I know. You've got a lot of things to talk about. I know Kiki you're fresh from NYC once again.

I feel like the last time you were here, you had just gotten back from New York. I did. I think I did New York twice this. month. Yeah. I think I spent more time in New York than L. I'm jealous. That was a girl's trip and then you just did the New York house. Yeah. The Rooney premiere, yeah. Yeah. So fun. Wait, how are the Hamptons?

It's so nice. I hadn't been to the Hampton since I moved from New York and I, you know, the Wolf for Estate is like so gorgeous. I love summer in a bottle. It's my favorite rosé. Ooh. Wait, summer in a bottle? Yeah. From the Wolfor Estate. I have not had that. It's a great rosé, yeah. Yum. I love that. I love seeing you

over. Anytime I see you there and I'm like, ooh, how was the premiere was it good. It was so good. I mean, I think, you know, because the last two seasons of Roney, you know, not the best, but I feel like they finally took the time. They have a good group. I really like the premiere. Haley is a star. Okay. See, I just, I'm going back and forth with it because, I mean, I like the girls, you know. I love Erin and Jessel. I've spent quite a bit of time with them just over BravoCon and New York and events and whatnot. I haven't really. met Sye, but now it's like an all new cast. And I'm like, do I have it in me again? Yeah. To start basically like a new show. It's like football, though. It's like you have to have your rebuilding years where you structure and you get your team ready. You have your people who graduated and you got to get your team back on par. But I think that this season, just from watching the kind of teaser trailer they put on Bravo, it feels like, it feels like when Notre Dame came back.

That's what it feels like. It feels like when they got a hot coach and they were like, yeah, we're good now. Yeah. Okay. Well, maybe I give it a shot. Yeah. Because Salt Lake's going to be back soon, right? Well, Salt Lake's going to be back and, you know, Golden Life could also be coming soon too. And so I think like having kind of all of that on the, at the same time will be fun. Oh, and Golden Life are they going to like cross on Bravo and? You know, I don't know where. I mean, I know it's going to be on but I don't know like what streamer it's going to be on. I mean, hopefully we find out. Okay. You know. Yeah. I wonder, right? Because they split and it's Because they split, but technically it's kind of like those production companies still work together.

So technically it could end up on Peacock. So it might actually. Hopefully. That's true. I'm still in my impractical jokers and saved by the Bell rewatch state. So I haven't watched reality in weeks and it's been kind of nice. No, it has. But I have to watch Salt Lake.

Yes. Like I'm never going to not watch Rhode Island. I watched the first two episodes. I got the screeners. Of Salt Lake? Of Salt Lake. I mean. How is Whitney is.

She okay? I mean, well, the first episode is just, just be prepared. Just be at home. I mean, it's good, but it's a lot. I'm glad that they had that second one to just like really then get you into it. But yeah, it's, but it's good. I mean, I feel like it'll be nominated for an Emmy. I mean, just off of what I watch.

I mean, how many Bravo shows have been nominated for an Emmy? We weren't the first. Summerhouse got one. Top Chef is nominated all the time. Yeah. Below deck. Mm-hmm. Inside the actor's studio.

Oh, I mean, that's it. Oh, I forgot about that show. The olden days. Yeah. Olden days, yes. Well, Christina, I know I've seen a lot of you this week. Some fun, some not as fun. I just want to put on the podcast.

If anyone saw my post, I loved how excited your mom was. I was like, we're going viral. And she's like, oh, yes. We did a little hospital day. dance with her and we just wanted to raise her spirits. You know, all of us girls were together. We were already getting lunch and I was like, let's go to the hospital and visit her dance to freak a leak. Yeah. She was so like full transparency. My mom has was diagnosed with cancer in a couple years ago. And we thought that everything was kind of on the mend and they found that her cancer had spread.

So it's kind of been one of those weekends where you're like on a Wednesday, you're great. And at Thursday, you're like, holy shit. Life just changed kind of like on a. dime and so I like I was really sad and like just grateful to have friends that came and like treat my family like family and like to just have course you Maddie and Christy and like everybody just kind of come together like even to go and like have lunch before that when I was like in that pace where I like I was like I'm going to go to lunch and I'm going to be a Debbie Downer and I'm going to go like I like I like I like but you can be that's what we're there for we're your support system you don't always have to be sunshine and rainbows smiling but that's when I

like to be on my couch and melting into it and I cry by myself but it's I'm trying to I like send a message and I finally was like listen I am I was like I don't reach out like this like I usually try to like suffer in silence I'll tell you after everything is done I'll come back to it but I was like I need my friends right now I'm having a really hard time and like like I like I just I couldn't even like get through the message to just like say it and like the way they all just like showed up like in that next 24 hours and just to like my sisters in Georgia so it's kind of hard to like process all of that by yourself and it's like obviously like I have my husband I have a great support system there but like I'll have three kids and so like trying to balance that and all the things and like and I love my mom like

she's the coolest person in the world and so it's just kind of like we like took her a tiara and flowers yeah sheena brought her a Marie Callagher's chicken pot pie which is her favorite and that's like one of the first things she's eating all week so it was really nice and I know she's going to listen and then watch this back. So I know you're having more stuff done the day. I love you. You're extremely cool. And I love you.

So cool. The coolest. That's the thing that like fuck with me about cancer because I just met your mom. We had the best day at the birthday party. And it's like we just gossip about reality shows. And it's like this person, you don't realize what's happening inside. And they could still be like up and up and up. And then it's like the next day.

It's like it could change. And that's the thing that's like, oh, so I can't even imagine. She has talked about you every day. She's like, where's Kiki? Yeah. Oh, I can see Kiki. Like she's like, oh, Kiki is my girl now. Well, she was supposed to give me some tea from Atlanta,

so we do have to. Listen, it is the wildest thing because I used to have, I remember I had this guy who used to call me. He's like, oh, you're a one-upper, and I'm like, no, I've just had a cool life. Like, my mom would take me to stuff when I was like 14. Yeah. We'd turn around and she'd like, oh, like,

this is Parliament Funkadelic. And then it does. She introduced me because I was obsessed with Jay and Silent Bob Strikeback. And so I was. loved it. I'd know the entire entry to it. So my mom takes me to meet Morris Day in the time. And we get there and I'm like, she does not know

Morris Day in the time. And Jerome walks up and is like, you look just like your mom when she was your age. And then in comes Morris and of course I said fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck like, blah. And the whole thing and it's a lot of expedives, but it was great. All the way up to the like 15 bucks little man put that shit in my hand.

Like all the way through it, it was great. My mom was like, that's just who she is. She was fully supportive of it. And she's just like, I wouldn't have like the life I have if I didn't have somebody who was like bold enough to go out and like live and chase her dreams and do all this stuff. Like it's weird and odd to have a parent who like travels for work and it's on tour. And like she was on the world with the gap band. But I got to go to Disneyland for free.

So I'm like, yeah. Hell. Yes. That's what I'm talking about. So mom, I love you. You're the best. We love you. No, she is incredible.

And she did ask about you at the hospital. She's like, hold on. I got to leave a comment. She's like, at talk of shame. Where you're at? Yeah. Thank you guys for your support. I really appreciate it. Sorry, triggerboarding for anybody who has to deal with that, but also know that you're

not alone. There's people you can reach out to and just love your family, love your people, and fuck cancer. Yeah. That part. Yes. Before we get into everything else, Kiki, I've been following your investigation into Bethany Frankel at Burning

Oh, God. Okay. So I need an update. So I think that she, I mean, from what I hear, she said she was only going to go for four days. It sounds like she left from before the rain happened because every video I see, I don't see muddy shoes. I don't see anything that remotely resembles rain or mud. But look, she went. She obviously came in on her private jet.

She had her RV decked out. It looks like she spent a lot of. time in her camping area. She did do some karaoke. One night it looked like. She looks like she's lip-sing some biggie or saying some bigie karaoke. But I don't know how much she interacted with like the whole birdie man experience because I haven't seen her going to like the artwork and all of that. And then the day of the burn when I thought, okay, is she going to actually be there?

It looked like she was already back in the Hamptons because somebody got a video of her at the Hamptons. And I DM that person. I said, when's that video from? And they were like, this is live. And I said, okay. She is absolutely in the Hamptons right now, not in the desert. So how many nights do we think that she actually slept at Burning Man?

One. I'll give her two. I'll give her the first night she arrived and then she did a whole outfit change for the day of. And then she maybe like that night either left that night or stayed that night or left early that next morning. Yeah. I feel like that's one of those like you got a three o'clock flight ready to get out of here before everybody is truly up and do it. I'm sorry. I know people love a festival, but I need a festival that ends with a shower.

and a bid. I'm not sleeping outside. I'm not going without a shower. That is not my ministry, and I'm not meant for it. Like, have added. The nice RVs have showers, right? There's no way she didn't have a shower. I think that she had a shower, but I don't even know, like, because do you have to fill that shower up with where does the water come from? Like, do you have to take it somewhere? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not a camper. But you have to hook into something. I don't think the desert hooks into anything. So unless you are bringing in your own jugs of water.

She probably did. You know who on the Pegged Jet? That's true. Pete from Goof Troop. Because he always had a like bomb RV. It's like, okay, you're going all the way to Burning Man, but basically go in. You get all your outfits on, shoot enough content to make it look like you had the whole full Burning Man experience.

And then you get out. I mean, what's the point? Like the content is the point? Well, she kept saying. It's the experience. She kept saying she was going to explain Burning Man to everyone once she really could, could grasp it because she's like, it's just so much. But I keep waiting for the videos of her explaining it. The one video she explained it, I was like, okay, you've just explained Bernie Man.

Yes, like people come. It's a city. There's artwork. Yes. Everyone knows that part. But like, why are you there? I think that's what we want to know. Like, are you doing it for brand?

Is it content? Or are you really just wanting to immerse yourself because you need an experience? Are you having a midlife crisis? anything. I just want to know the reason. Are you going to do ayahuasca? Yeah. I feel like Bethany's seeking like community. Because it's like she went into like the TikTok space and then it was like the makeup stuff. And now it's like kind of this investigatory journalism that she's doing.

But Bethany Frankel is a fascinating individual to me. And I think always will be because it's such a thing of like how you can fly so, so high. And then you're like, what do I do now? And you have to like spend the rest of your life like figuring out like what's your next thing. you're chasing the next, like, you've already, like, hit the pinnacle. And you started, like, they show you literally on Real Housewives in New York season one, like starting, like, started from the bottom now here. And it's like, what do you do now?

What do you think would be the thing that would break you first? Would it be like the dust, the bathroom situation, the heat, not having to shower, the mud, too many people? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Everything you're saying is. It would be the worst. I think that, like, if I, I would be in an RV if someone would like pay me a million dollars to go.

I'd absolutely be an RV. But again, because you can't tap into water, I think eventually the shower bathroom situation would get to me because I just like, I can't. Like if I can't. How long are people there for? Is it like 10 days or something? At least seven. There's like a couple of stretches because I think it's two weeks.

Because you could do the build. Yeah, the first week is the build. Then the second week is the festival. No, thank you. I had someone ask me. I don't remember who it was. but someone asked me a few days ago and they're like oh wait you're not going to Burning Man? I'm like

do I look like a Burning Man girlie? I love a festival I was going to say you love a festival yeah that's a little too hardcore for me. I think you would do it for the experience. You would do it at least once and if you had like a certain level of like tent RV accommodation. I could be okay with like out showering every single day like out of

you know like that I could live with that the dust I could wear a mask I could live with that. Where am I going to the bathroom? That might be where I draw the line. I could pop a squat. I did that on the way to Palm Springs last week. Oh, my goodness.

It had to be so bad. And I was like, I'm just going to pull off the side of the road. There were no cars. And I popped a squat. When we went to the house or this was after that? It was before because we drove separate. On the way to the house, I had to pull over and pee. I want to watch the documentary.

I think HBO has a Bernie Man documentary that Everyone's like, you need to watch, you need to watch. It goes through the history. And I'm like, okay, if I watch that, I'm, I am curious because I had a friend from years ago in New York and he was the coolest guy I know who would go. But I feel like that was back when it was sort of like a cool thing to do. Right. And now it's become sort of like a, I don't know, just for like where rich people go to like have their RVs. I think there are people.

It's still, even if you don't have a lot of money, it still costs a lot of money even if you have a 10. Like it still sounds like it's thousands of dollars to live in the mud. And I don't understand that. I think EDC will be my next, like, crazy type of festival I go to if I try a new one. Was that Vegas? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was there during that.

I didn't go to that, but I was there during that. And that's wild. Yeah. I'm just so when we were young, I will stick to my emo music day on the hunt for the perfect, like, gym class heroes show. Because, and they're also on tour right now, and I'm very excited about it. So I'm just like, because I missed, what was the one? I missed Van, Warped Tour. tour and so I'm just like

Well everyone missed gym class heroes They were on at like 1 p.m. I would be there I would be there at 1245 I was still at home I think I'm like too boogey even for Coachella And I know Coachella is like You have to go artist

That's the thing Now that I've gone artists to festivals I'm like fuck I can't go back I can go back from a first class seat to coach because I'm not paying for first class But the festivals

I'm like just VIP? Like, I don't know. I've had a taste of the other side. All right. We're going to take a quick break and then I do want to get y'all's thoughts on the Lindsay Clancy trial. We'll be our back. All right, y'all. So if you have been waiting for the right time to tackle your weight loss goals, well, this is it. We don't have to wait for a new year to have a new me, okay? Because hers now offers access to an affordable range of FDA approvals. GLP 1 medications, including the Wagovi pill and the Wagovi pen. So with Wagovi at hers, you can lose up to 20% of your body weight when combined with diet and exercise. You got to do that. You got to do it all.

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With celebrity guests and today's leading experts, we're dropping episodes every Tuesday. So listen and subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. So you never miss an episode. Well, one thing we have been talking about quite a bit is the Lindsay Clancy trial over the last few weeks on the pod. and there was finally an outcome except really there wasn't. To catch everyone up who maybe hasn't been following closely or needs a refresher, I'm just going to read off my notes to get you up to speed. So after nearly 40 hours of deliberations over seven days,

the jury remained deadlocked 11 to 1, and Judge Sullivan declared a mistrial on September 4th. So we knew from the notes coming out during deliberations that there was apparently one juror preventing a unanimous verdict, but now that three members of the jury, have spoken out publicly. We have a much clearer and arguably more frustrating picture of what was happening inside that room. And that raises a bigger question here. So it's like, was it simply a hung jury doing what hung juries sometimes do? Or was Lindsay denied a fair verdict because one person refused to

apply the law? What do we think there? I honestly, again, I feel like I'm only been following this trial through the headlines. And so I don't feel as educated as I should be. I've been following more of the bigger picture than like actually watching the whole court of it all. And this is like a very, I think, complex case that like deserves hearing all the testimony. And it's like all I know right now is will there ever be a chance that this woman can get a second trial that is unbiased being as public as it was, as much it was talked about

to the point where Donald Trump, was even making comments about it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so that's my main concern. And ultimately, this woman is clearly in need of help. So, like, is she getting the help she needs outside of this, you know, in the waiting game of the trial?

Like, where are she being held? What is happening to her is my concern? And then also, I feel, you know, for the husband, because obviously he's been getting attacked online because a lot of people have been saying, he's the one who did it. And it's like the fact that even her own lawyer had to come and say, please stop harassing this man. You know, it's kind of like it's, it's as much as I love true crime. I do feel like we've reached this weird or we've gone over this tipping point.

Yeah. Maybe everything doesn't have to be so public, especially when we know it's going to be, you know. But I think like that's like with 24 hour news network ever since that time like OJ, like watching and getting that invested in a trial and the way that like the nation was divided, like OJ Simpson, all of these different trials and going, like, listen, I used to love some court TV. Right. But we've also reached this point where now it's like every person can go and comment on these things and like before a trial is even done, there's multiple podcasts and you have like, who's hearing this, who's getting all the access to this

information. So I don't know that an unbiased jury situation exists. No. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. The three female jurors, including four person, Ron. Carlson had spoke to NBC 10 Boston after the mistrial and according to Carlson the holdout eventually admitted that he had reasonable doubt she said she was so relieved she actually began filling out and signing the verdict forms only for him to then say he would still not find Lindsay not guilty by reason of insanity and lack of criminal responsibility so that's the distinction that is really important You know, a juror is absolutely entitled to disagree with the other 11. Being the loan holdout itself isn't the problem, but the allegation here is different.

It's like the jurors say he acknowledged reasonable doubt and nevertheless would not apply the legal consequence of the doubt. Yeah. That's where I get confused because, like, I understand that's what's being said to me. Right. But then if that's the case, then why can it just be a mistrial? why can't a judge then step in? If the judge is the one that ultimately knows the law better, then let's be real, a layman jury,

why can't the judge then step in and say, like, well, this isn't being applied correctly. And that's when I get, you know. Yeah, because they said they even had the judge come back in and, like, read the definition and explain it again. And then he's still held out. I'm sorry, I still feel the concept of, like, jury of your peers. These are my peers.

I know. Because-to-these people? Trust me, in the recent, in the last two years, I know that most of these people are not. not my peers, at least 50% of them. And I mean that in the sense of like in the way that they might have meant this and when it came about, we're talking

about small communities where it was tight knit. And so now to go to a place, especially in a place now where we have social media and complete lack of just media literacy and just comprehensive thinking with nuance, it's

a very, I don't know, I just that seems outdated to me. Yeah. And it seems like it's setting people up for failure and the lack of like, I don't know, the experience of a person who has done this for a living, gone to school. And yeah. Yeah. Right.

People are like, it's weird because people are more black and white than I feel like they've ever been before. And there's just no room for gray area at all. It's like you are either with me or you are against me. Like I, you know, I'm like fighting today online because I'm talking about AI. Now here's the thing. I believe in advancement. I believe in technology.

And I think that there are uses that. AI could be very good. I don't think the people that it's whose hands it in, is it in right now, are using it necessarily for good and it can go in a very bad direction. So we should need to regulate it. But people are like, no, no AI at all. We can't use any AI. And I'm like, well, I don't know if that's the answer either.

And I feel like the same way where it's just like people now are so like, you're either guilty or you're not. And if this isn't, if that's, there is no good. There's no in between of like, well, maybe she did do it. But like, I don't think. anyone's denying that she did it, even she admitted that she did it. Yeah. But it's just whether she's criminally responsible or. And it seems like that was clear based on testimony, at least we've heard just even through the headlines, that she wasn't. She was on 17 different medications. She wasn't

properly treated. So whatever she did, I don't think she was in her right mind. And it seems pretty evident. So I'm not sure why she wasn't found. Yeah. I have a big thing about like with postpartum and knowing how hard, like, postpartum anxiety, all of those things hit and trigger you. And if you get the wrong medicine, anything that's not helping you or you have a doctor who's just like, oh, like, prescribe, prescribe, prescribe, prescribe, like I can understand how those things would factor in. So, like, the nuance of that is not lost on me.

Yeah. But if you have somebody who's just like a pull yourself up by your bootstraps through depression type person, they're not going to have any kind of grace in that type of a situation. Right. Because for them, it's just like, okay, well, you could have, like, you know it's wrong. objectively. So therefore, there's no other way to think about it. And it just, I don't know. Yeah, the world doesn't work that way.

Yeah. Question for you, Kiki. Yeah. Or both of you, actually. Does calling a not guilty by reason of insanity verdict, justice for Lindsay, risk making it sound as though the children are somehow being forgotten? Or like, can both things be true? No, I mean, I don't think so at all. I mean, I think that if she

had been properly treated and it was fully aware, I think she would have full remorse. And I don't think that, you know, I think to me that's the thing. Is there remorse once you are able, cognitively able to know what you did? And I think that, you know, again, I don't know her situation, but it sounds like she would be. I don't think that this is something. Yeah. Like, I don't even like to think about anything in that vein.

But it's, like, I imagine living with that. And I mean, she's living in her own hell every day. She's paralyzed, but she's now got her mind. And she has to live with herself every day that she did that. That those children's last vision was their mother strangling that. Yeah. I just is absolutely devastating. Oh, I cannot even imagine.

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like with that one juror that he felt like someone needed to pay in order for those three children to get justice, you know, even if the evidence didn't support it, he was just like, no, you will pay. And I can understand that. I can understand that too. Like, it's a, like, you want justice. Because at the end of the day, like, yes, like, she's on trial, but they're gone. And that's just like, that's just a hard pill to swallow.

So I can understand being like, absolutely not. Yeah. And then the three jurors who were interviewed by NBC Boston said that if there is another trial, they intend to come back to the courthouse to support Lindsay, which is a pretty remarkable position for people who spent weeks hearing every piece of evidence against her. Like, what does that tell you? You know, these people, or these weren't people reacting to TikTok clips, headlines. I mean, they sat through the evidence and testimony and came out of the process feeling strongly enough about what they had heard. Now they want to publicly support the defendant.

I will admit, I think that's strange. You know, I understand that you've been heavily involved in the case. But I feel like that's. even more reason to maybe remove yourself from it because I don't know. I just, it gets a little bit. You never know what people's true intentions are, right? Like, are you trying to be helpful? Or is this just a very popular case that this is something that is good to attach yourself to right now? It's hard to tell.

Yeah. I just, I don't know. I mean, obviously, after a certain point, if you've sat and you've heard all this stuff, you've grown attached in some one way or another. Yeah. formed an opinion, you've attached yourself, they probably have been endeared to this woman throughout this trial

as controversial and horrible as it is. They probably are like, oh, she probably reminds them something. A lot of people, when they start to relate to someone or it's like they start to relate that person to someone that they care about in their real life or like a family member. And so I think some of those attachments can go on

in that way. And so it feels like a little bit of that to me, but I agree with Kiki. I think it's just kind of support. I think support from home. Like I don't know. necessarily like, you know. Yeah. And it gives an underlying like, I could be your courthouse reporter if you want me to like represent and talk about. Like there's always that level of kind of like what is the genuine motive here? Yeah. Because you don't even have to identify yourself as a juror. Like I don't, you know, I think you, you can always be like,

leave me alone and I don't want to identify. But if you choose to, I don't, you know, that means either you feel very passionately and strong and you want to get your, you know, which makes sense to. Yeah. You know, but. If you were the DA, do you retry this? Because, I mean, a mistrial isn't an acquittal. You know, she still remains charged and the prosecutors can pursue another trial, but will they? Well, that's the thing because I also, and this is what I would love, you know, beyond my Judge Judy education. It's like, if they decide not to charge, then what happens to her? Right. Because she clearly still needs help in some capacity. Yeah. I don't know.

Oh, well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Okay. I'm I'm going to gather some more thoughts on this. Let's take another break and then BRB. All right. Are you guys running around all day like I am? I went to summer school, not one, not two, but three times yesterday. And whether it is a school drop-off to work meetings, Aaron's travel, dinner, a school event, you know, everything in between,

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Offer ends October 9th. So don't miss out. So something else I've seen come up repeatedly in the conversation around Lindsay is why this case. We've spent a lot of time talking about Lindsay and Cora Dawson and Callan. National outlets have covered virtually every day. of this trial, court TV has carried it and social media has just become consumed with it. But that's not necessarily a bad thing because this case raises incredibly important questions about postpartum psychosis and our mental health system. But I've also seen criticism online

asking whether this case would have received the same level of attention and empathy if Lindsay weren't a white middle class mother from. from an affluent Massachusetts suburb, you know? And I don't think asking that question means Lindsay or her children deserve less attention, but maybe the question should actually be, why haven't other mothers received more and their children, you know? And I know, I'm sure you know about this,

but the most striking example is Latarsha Sanders, who is a black mother from Brockton, Massachusetts. In 2018, Sanders killed her two sons, eight-year-old Marlon and five-year-old Lasson, while her defense says she was experiencing a psychotic episode. She was eventually diagnosed with a serious mental illness, records documented, paranoia, schizophrenia, and doctors said she had gone undetected and untreated for decades. She raised essentially the same fundamental legal defense as Lindsay.

She was not criminally responsible because of severe mental illness. But Sanders was convicted of two counts of first-degree murder and sentenced to two mandatory life sentences without parole. And here's what makes the comparison especially remarkable is the same Plymouth County DA's office. It was them and it was the same judge William Sullivan. But just last month, Massachusetts high, high, I can't say this fucking state. Just last month, Massachusetts highest court throughout Sanders convictions in order

to a new trial ruling that Judge Sullivan improperly, prevented her jury from seeing extensive psychiatric records that supported the only defense that she had. And the court called the error prejudicial. So while the country was watching Lindsay's trial and debating whether the system was treating her fairly, another woman just miles away had already spent years serving life without parole after Massachusetts's highest court now says she didn't receive a fair trial. So had either of you heard about or heard LaTarsh's name at all before the Lindsay trial? Absolutely not. I hadn't.

You had? Okay. I hadn't. And I think what's like it is a good point, especially considering where you are. And it's who's a perfect victim, who deserves empathy, who is allowed to be seen like with some forms like a lens of compassion or empathy. And you see it with the same judge to have the same judge in this case. And it work out in the way that it did. And I'm not saying that there should be freedom from consequences just. because of that there's rehabilitation, all of that. I'm a firm believer in

rehabilitary programs. But my, you can't help but look at it and say like, who deserves grace? Who is allowed to have grace? And why do these things get attentioned? Because that's the way it's been. You're not seeing cases of kidnappings.

You have to have a narrative that works. And not a lot of people are going to find the empathy in themselves to care about black children that were killed by their mother because it just feeds into the narrative that people have already that like we're destroying our own communities and all of the like nonsense that people are fed to already be afraid of us. So the jury of her peers, she's probably sitting there

with a jury where half of them we're thinking of her as less than human. Yeah. And like those things are realistic. We have to look at situations like Charlottesville to have a situation like that and people are just like, oh my gosh, racist. And it's like, no, reframe it. some of those people are doctors. Some of those people are lawyers. Some of those people are judges. Some of those people are just standing there at the register next to you. But that bias is that bias. Whether people want to admit to it or not. And that's not every single person, obviously. But you have to go into it with the understanding of the existence of a person of color in a situation like that. The justice system is not set up for her to go into that situation and receive empathy. It's for her to go in there and receive empathy. It's for her to go in there and receive.

punishment. Yeah. Well, I mean, even just through anything medical that you've gone through your mom, I mean, just the stories that you've told me. I mean, you were- You saw that the other day. Yes. But, like, you were septic. You could have died because the shitty doctors just, they just missed it or they just dismissed you. It's just not, it's not okay. And we were like, what, from the hospital there to being in the ICU within, like, what, three weeks of that time that they sent me home. I thought I was okay. But no, like there is a disparity and it's not wrong to acknowledge that it is real. It is in medical books. There is a system in our world that is just not set up for us to win in those situations while it does cater to other people.

We literally just saw that. My mom's cancer and spread. My mom's been saying she's in pain for months and months and months. They kept dismissing her, dismissing her and treating her like she was just trying to get pain drugs. And you saw me the other day. Like I, like, my mother has every possible man. She's not abusing them. She's genuinely in pain. Like, can we get her something more? It's not like she's an addict who needs the drugs.

It's like she is a cancer patient in pain. And she had a four centimeter tumor before they even, like, gave her enough decency to, like, do a scan. Yeah. Like, that's the world that we live in. That is a world that you have to move through. I would fucking love to live in a world where there was an actual, justice system that was set up to treat people fairly and equally and give everyone the same justice under the law. But we are talking about law in different situations in Massachusetts.

I'm sorry, no offense, masholes. But there is a very distinct system in place that is prejudicial and this story is going to get more attention than Letarsit's case and those children are going to get more justice or not. Because it is a hard place to be. This is not a black and white situation. It is a situation where there are so many things at play that just lend themselves to why the justice system should be a level playing field with objective people

in these places and you should have to pass certain tests to be able. I'm sorry, if you're trying to send me to jury duty, I'm going to like, I want to be paying Pokemon Go. Like, what are we doing? Like, who are these people? She's been running around the hospital looking for Pokemon. Sure it is.

Found a great one. Super excited. But, like, we have to be objective about, like, what this is. And I would love for all these cases to have the same attention, but they're not going to because people don't give a shit. And they're not going to empathize in that same way. They would if we were given stories that cause people empathize. But people, they're like, oh, it's a black story.

It's a white story. No, these are human stories. When we start to look at people and stories as human, rather than just like and understanding them. There are these stories. You are these unique experiences. But other people have to see them that way.

Yeah. Like you have to like you mean at the end of the day it's the news company, right? I'm sure people are trying to get their stories told. And then the news are like, oh no, I'm going to pick that one because that one's going to resonate with our audience because our audience only responds to that demographic.

So that's why those stories get blasted. Yeah. Which is why again, I appreciate the TikTokers, even though it can go totally left, but they are the ones that are going to uncover those stories that you don't hear about. It's just that sometimes they take it too far. Yeah, there was one we were watching last night. Brock had his phone and we were in the car, but my phone was connected. And I was like, wait, what is that? I was like put it on the, in the car. And it was this guy on TikTok, but he was like arguing with himself, like he was doing

both sides of it. And it was very interesting because he's like, oh, well, but no, da-da-da-da. And it was just like him arguing with himself, but I was like, wow, it just... Mm-hmm. Yeah. Crazy. Well, thank you both for giving your perspectives on that. And I think a thing to point out, too, is with empathy,

you know, giving it to another woman doesn't require taking it away from Lindsay. It's just like, let's talk about it all, you know? You can be objective. That's the thing. But, yeah, you know, maybe the lesson isn't that Lindsay received, it too much compassion. Maybe it's that cases like hers expose how selectively we distribute compassion in the first place, you know? I saw this other story. So I would like to stop talking about children being, you know, but there was this post earlier this week that I saved because I was like,

hold on, we need to discuss this. So there was an obituary for this husband and wife who died and we're having a joint funeral. Like, very sweet, right? You know, buried next to each other, all of that, until you see the news article about their deaths and realize, apparently, this was a murder suicide and the husband killed his wife. Oh, my God. And the woman who posted it wrote something like, just FYI, if my husband murders me, I do not want to share a funeral with him. And I was like, thank you. This feels like something we need to have in writing. I wouldn't think it would even need to be sad, but since we are apparently updating our end of life wishes today, is this something like we need to put in our wills? I mean, I guess so.

That's crazy. I know we, you know, you purchase plots together. Right. So maybe there is a thing that you need to put in there. Should my husband annihilate me or my family, please separate the plots because we're not going to have a joint funeral. I also am wondering, I need to look at my will. I'm like, does it say I want to be cremated? Like, I don't remember necessarily doing that, but I'm sure I would have had to.

It's like a living, like doing like your living will and trying to get your like, taking sure who has power of attorney and making all of those decisions for you and just making sure that you like, I don't know. I guess like there's a lot of like post life stuff that people don't think about, especially like when someone passes away suddenly or you don't expect it. Like my dad passed. Like somebody came and tried like steal the house. What? Oh my God. Yeah.

there's a trash person that exists out in that world that decided that the houses that my dad left to my nephew were hers to take and also fuck her. But like it's a real thing that happens. And it's like a case that you end up in because you have to make sure everything is locked up in probate, whether it's written out. Make sure your will is properly signed. If it's not signed also in certain states, like in Georgia, stepchildren are not allowed to inherit like in like a like if something happens. Yeah. And so it's a very. like you really want to make sure all of that stuff is locked up, like making sure even like

you sell your house to your children for like a dollar or something. So they're not paying all of these different taxes and everything probably like transfers over. Yeah, I know. I feel like people like me are the worst because I don't have any errors. And so I don't think about it. I'm like, oh, but I do need to have something because look like if God forbid something happened, And I do think my family might not necessarily know my wishes where it's like I don't maybe want to be hooked up to a life support thing. These are unfortunately uncomfortable things that we need to think about while we are of sound mind and healthy and whatnot. And if you do need like an estate attorney or someone to do your will or anything, I do have a really good girl. I went to high school.

Oh, okay. Anyone if you want to get her information and give it to you? DM. No, but it was like I had to do that, especially with like the house. And like now I have two houses and I have a kid. And so I had to update all of that. And at the time when I was updating it, unfortunately for my husband, I didn't like him so much. This is 2023.

Okay. I was like, you get nothing. And I'll leave it that way for now. Do you have like in there like all your passwords? Because I think about that too. No. Like where's the place where you like, okay, passwords to get or like locks to get in my safe. My sister has all of that for me.

I have a locked note that's password protected in my phone that has all my passwords. But usually I'm too lazy to even unlock that. And I'm like, court, what's the Hulu login? I need like a self-destruct system. I'm like, I want every phone to explode. Delete all my chest. Once my date of death is registered, I would like a self-destruct system that is set up. Push the button.

Get rid of the private history. All of it. Yes. Right. Oh, okay. Things I don't want to think about anymore. I just want Sheena's text messages. I know, right?

I know the receipts and them screenshots. The group chats, man. I do have folders, as we know. Don't fuck with me because I come with receipts. Anyways, all right, wrapping it up. Flowers of the week are going to you and your mama, Christina. You deserve all of the flowers. I love you.

I'm so grateful to have you in my life. and your mom is just such an angel. I love her so much. It's so much fun, just twerking. I've never twerked in a hospital room before, okay? Quite a time. I would recommend. Mama wants to dance to freak a leak in her hospital bed.

We will twerk. She kept doing that Instagram thing. What was it? Oh, yeah. Something. Is she he lying in my round the time I was in? Oh, yeah. You want to lick my boom,

ta-tah, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta. I was like, I will learn it for you. I love you. Thank you. Of course. And Jack's Hole of the week. Okay. We can just make cancer, the Jackal.

Yeah. And you know what? As the Jacks Hole is going to be cancer. Fuck cancer. I just, ugh. Yeah, there's nothing else to say. Fuck it. Fuck cancer.

Yes. And bless all the people that are fighting. Absolutely. One thing I didn't say in my intro, Christina, that I want to add to my outro, is not just to follow along with you, Christina Ariel, but you have, can we talk about it? What's coming soon? Yay.

Yeah. Actually, my husband is scouting right now, the location. I'm going to be shooting my podcast cover on Sunday at the Hollywood sign. Lots of permits. So cool. Yes, it's called Wanna Hang Out with Christina Ariel. And it's just going to be hanging out with my friends one-on-one, eating snacks, and just talking about the things that bring joy.

I want to, like, basically, I was like, hey, I want to hang out with my friends. but I only see them at work. So what can I do? I don't want to just keep bumping in people on set or the thing. So I'm going to be intentional and just schedule hangouts with my friends. Right. And they'll come by. We just did Will Wheaton came by for our first episode.

I love that. And I'm really excited about it. I'm going to be interviewing Ahmed Best, who played Jar Jar Binks in Star Wars. I'm super excited to have him. And it's just like people I admire, people I love. Sheena's going on. Like, I am super excited about it at my own studio and all of the things. And I'm just excited.

to get it out into the world and it's my little baby I've been working on. I can't wait. I'm so excited. I'm excited to see the final look, the hair, the color, the aesthetics, all of it. Can't wait. So we're going to follow along, Christina Arielle, for that. And make sure to listen to Kiki weekdays on Radio Andes, reality checked, and you can find her online at Taco Shame if you're wondering where you at?

Where are you? Thanks, guys. Bye. Thanks for listening to shenanigans with Shina Shay. Tune in next time for juicy updates from the world of reality TV, pop culture, and more. Download new episodes every week on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.