Scheananigans with Scheana Shay - Producer’s Pets, Postpartum Psychosis & Paid Paparazzi? w/ Kiki Monique & Ryan Bailey

Episode Date: August 21, 2026

Kiki Monique and Ryan Bailey are back in the studio this week, and somehow exploding champagne is the least messy thing on the agenda. Following Hayden Panettiere’s heartbreaking story, the trio discusses postpartum mental health, the stigma that still surrounds it, and why women should never be professionally punished for speaking openly about what they’re going through. They also unpack the Lindsay Clancy trial, the misinformation spreading online, and the difficult question at the center of so much of the discourse: when someone is repeatedly asking for help, who has a responsibility to actually hear them? Then, it’s back to the mess with Jax publicly airing his grievances with Brittany, the staged paparazzi shots of Jax & Lori K, and Ryan refusing to even open Jax’s DM. Ryan also wants to know why Scheana isn’t on “The Valley” and whether there’s any truth to the idea that she’s secretly dying to get back on reality TV. Scheana shares what she envisions for her future in that space—and why, if she does return, viewers may meet a very different version of her. Plus, Scheana reveals why she didn’t find Lala’s reunion apology authentic, reflects on the version of Katie Maloney she wishes she’d appreciated sooner, and explains why being told someone “doesn’t recognize” her anymore might actually be the biggest compliment. Follow us: @scheana @scheananigans Co-Hosts: @thetalkofshame @sobaditsgoodwithryanbailey Purchase your very own copy of the NYT Best-selling book/audiobook MY GOOD SIDE at www.mygoodsidebook.com!  A NOTE TO OUR LISTENERS: This episode includes discussions of postpartum depression, postpartum OCD, postpartum psychosis, intrusive thoughts, suicide, and the deaths of children. If you or someone you love is struggling with maternal or postpartum mental health, support is available. The National Maternal Mental Health Hotline offers free, confidential support 24/7 at 1-833-852-6262, and Postpartum Support International offers resources and support through its HelpLine at 1-800-944-4773 or by texting HELP to 800-944-4773. If you are in suicidal crisis or emotional distress, call or text 988 for the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.Episode Sponsors: Find your nearest Ross at RossStores.com.Ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money? Download the Vinted app for free and start listing. With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn.Right now, podcast listeners can save up to 48% off their first order at pendulumlife.com/GOODASGOLD.Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. From Vanderpump rules to motherhood and everywhere in between. Warm up the kettle. It's time to spill some tea. Let's get into some shenanigans with Shea Shea. It's on, so I was going to put everyone's on. Good is gold. Oh, ho.

How we doing? It's going to be a good one, well. All right, back for another week of shenanigans here in the studio. with Kiki and Ryan Bailey. How are we doing? It's been a minute. Since we've all been together. Yeah.

I mean, time means nothing anymore. It's all just one big day. Yeah, right? How's a baby? How's Rebecca? Everything's good. I mean, like, good in the sense of you don't, you know, it's everything that people tell you. You don't sleep a lot.

No. Everything's insane. It does feel like one big day. It's like amazing and really challenging at the same time. But yeah, every day it's like a new. But then there's so many times at night. You're waking up, you're up. But like I said, it's that experience of meeting somebody that you feel like you've known forever.

But at the same time, you're discovering new things about them every day. Yeah. So it is, I don't know, it's really changed my perspective on a lot of things. Yeah. But then you go to talk about reality TV and you're like, who cares? Who cares? Does it make you want to just like hide in a pantry and chug a white claw? Yeah.

What are you talking about? I was just drinking water. What are you guys? No. And then fast forward a few years, you have school and parent mixers. And then you get in a great preschool and you make all these friends. And then it's over. And then you have to go to another parent mixer at the new school for kindergarten.

Well, I was reading parenting blogs that I'm already scared of the ages 12 and up. Yeah. Because that's when you lose them supposedly. Like they're sweethearts and then they hate you at a certain age. And then you get them back at like 17. Yeah. And so I'm already. 17 still feels a little early.

Maybe like 20. Yeah. We had our kindergarten parent mixer last night. And I felt like when I got home, I was like, oh my gosh, I feel like I lost my voice a bit. It was just constant talking about your kid and what after school they're doing and where did they go to school and what city do you live in? And what's your plan? Are you doing the bus? Are you doing carpal? Or you do it? I was just like, oh, wow. I'm so glad I really grew up when I did. And like your parents just kind of like let you go. I was just like. You just like walk to your car. I was allowed to. Yeah. And I didn't think anything about it. I wasn't like, oh, I'm not being taken care of. Yeah, like I didn't care. I took care of myself. It was like, the only thing is like, do not get kidnapped, do not get murdered. So do not talk to strangers.

And now it's like, get in the car with a stranger, have food delivered from a stranger. Like everything. Like strangers buy your groceries. Crazy. That's the norm. Well, yeah, and these schools out here, I guess, you can hook. Like, you can order food from the school and then it just gets billed to the school. What?

Jeff was talking about this. What? Like somebody, there was a guest on Jeff saying, yeah, they're like Uber is hooked up to the school. So these kids are ordering like sushi and things like that. That's crazy. That's crazy. Not on my watch. And also like it's character building to have to sneak out, go to the fast food restaurant during lunch, smoke a cigarette.

Okay, well, that's later. Oh my God. The first time I snuck out of high school to go eat with the seniors at this Barrow's pizza place in Arizona, I felt like the coolest person ever. Yeah. Sneaking out for that hour. It was amazing. Oh my gosh. I had, I think it was like off campus or whatever the last.

period of like senior year where you got to like leave a little early. Yeah. But yeah. I'm like, wow, we're, we're in it. We're in a new school. We've got this for the next 13 years. You're in this school for the next 13 years? I mean, if we stay in California, that's, yeah, it's a K through 12.

Wow. How far away is the school from your place? Like 20 minutes. It's not bad. Yeah. Any school that we were applying to, it's like even if it was a mile and a half away in the morning, even like Ventura, like where she went to preschool, it was still 20 minutes. So it's like, it's not bad because actually we're going against traffic.

So we're not supposed to do this, but we're already like, we're watching Miss Rachel, you know, and she's already obsessed with Ms. Rachel. I was like, you need a collab with Miss Rachel. If you do your children's song with Miss Rachel, it blows up even bigger. Right. But we're obsessed. There's like, there's like this one song called Phonix that I think is a bop. Uh-huh.

Phonics. Like I'm now getting obsessed with children's songs. What about the sticky, aiki, a cookie bubble gum? Yeah, sticky, a kicky bubble gum. I was so thankful the day

she stopped asking for Miss Rachel and Cocoa Mellon. Don't do Cocoa. No, I told, don't do it. Because I hear Coco Mellon, they put drugs in it. It is.

It's not good. Literally, it's like a quick, like, dopamine release and then it's like a next scene, it's not good for children. Yeah, that's what I heard. Interesting. And we didn't know that.

and she was at my mom's house one weekend. And then my mom was like, she loves this show. Oh, my God. And same thing. We're told for babies only do the early seasons of Vanderpump rules. Do not do after season eight. No, don't do, no scandival.

Yeah, that's advanced. Wait till they're five. Yeah, but the first few seasons when there's like literal blood, sweat, and tears. Yeah. The babies can sense the realness. Yeah. They have to understand conflict.

Conflict and resolution involves punching people in faces. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, my baby just slap me today. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, it's, yeah, this whole new chapter we're in with school. I'm like, I signed her up for musical theater and soccer.

She's doing jujitsu still. And then Brock's like, should we put her in math club? I'm like, she's five. Let's just like Friday's after school. We have two things. And then let's just keep her in jujitsu. And that's enough. God, we're trying to just even get her to say one or two words.

I can't imagine throwing math into the mix. I know. And she loves doing math. Oh, yeah. But I'm like, that's before school.

And then she has Jiu Jitsu after school. That's a really long fucking day. She does math before school? That's when the math club is, I guess. And I'm like, no,

we're going to, we're going to pause on math for kindergarten. Smart. Get her in some, you know, other things. We need some women of STEM. Yeah.

Oh, also, I just wanted to do a little public apology to any of my friends who I have gifted a bottle of champagne to. I haven't been to y'all's houses yet. Otherwise, you would have a bottle of champagne. And I would be apologizing to you as well. So the other night, I had some friends over and my sister was there and she wanted a glass of like Persecco. And so I was like, okay. And I was like, oh, wait, I have this bottle of like Avalene. It's like a lambruce girl. I was like, just try it. She hates red wine. But I'm like, just try it. I open it. it explodes. And I'm like, hmm, interesting. And then I was like, she didn't like it anyways. And then it was

kind of flat. It exploded, whatever. So then I go, I open a bottle of perseco. It explodes. And I'm like, is this bottle old? Like, then I'm like, do I go for a third one? But I think I was like, hold on a second. And I think back to a play date we had a couple months ago where I brought a bottle of that Avalene Lambrusco. It exploded on the dad. And I was like, oh, that's crazy. And so I was like, it's certainly not an Aveline thing. Yeah. Is it a me thing? So I asked chat, are you not supposed to store champagne the same as wine sideways?

Because I have a wine fridge that came with my house. One side is wine. One side is champagne. And I, every time I go to someone's house, I grab a bottle of Vuv or whatever Aveling or whatever else. And I'm realizing now, no, you are not supposed to store champagne horizontally. because when the cork absorbs the bubbles and then it boom. I got to go. Good to know.

Good to know. So, yeah, I realized that I was like, oh, my God. Like how many parents and people have I gifted bottles to that it's exploded on? Sheena's like, why are there so many people that I know that have eye patches? Exactly, right? That's what I'm like. I just wanted to do a little apology here and just a PSA. So you guys know.

And also, if you get a bottle of champagne from Sheena at this point, know that you She does not like you. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Now we have it. My neighbor, it was her birthday last week, and they were doing, it was like a rock and roll and rose theme. So it was like a joint birthday.

And so I had a bottle of Vuvreauze. And so I bring it over. And then as this was happening, I had texted her and I was like, hey, did you drink that Vuv yet? And she was like, oh, no, I was going to like save it for us. They go, good. I go stand it upright. We'll drink it in a couple months.

And he's just settled. So now I have all of the bottles in my garage fridge standing up straight. And we're going to. That before I gift another. Okay. I want to come for champagne tasting night. Yeah. But anyway, how's the new apartment?

It's coming along. I've reached that point where it's like you unpack, unpack, unpack in the first couple weeks. And now I've stopped. But now I'm like, okay, my second bedroom is just like not touched and I need to do something with it. But I'm traveling too much for the next two months. So I'm kind of like, okay, after Labor Day, maybe I'll get back on it. Because also I'm like, you need to rebuild the funds because you're like, you spend so much

buying new furniture. Totally. I haven't, I have to furnish a whole second office. I've never really had to do that before. So I'm like, okay. So you have a first office? You're getting the second office?

Sorry, a second bedroom. Okay. I was turning into a first office. I was like, God, the business is happening. Wow. All right. Well, we've got lots of things to get into. So I'm going to sip my tea before we spill the tea and then we'll be back.

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about just a few months ago. So while she was doing press around her recent memoir release, Hayden shared on Jay Shetty's On Purpose podcast that after revealing her experience with postpartum depression in a 2015 interview, she was allegedly told by her agent that her longtime partnership with Neutrigina was in jeopardy because of it. I'm sure you guys saw this, right? According to Hayden, after nearly a decade with the brand, she was blindsided that speaking honestly about a very real medical condition could be viewed as violating a morality clause. She said it broke her heart, but she also said she'd never take back. speaking her truth because she hoped it would make things better for women who came after her. And when you hear that story, like, it's hard not to think about how far we've come, but also how

far we still have to go. I mean, for her to lose a brand partnership like that, for speaking about her mental health is wild. And as someone who almost died during childbirth myself, I mean, I know firsthand that having a baby isn't always, you know, the picture perfect experience people expect it to be. I don't know how Rebecca's birth was. Mine was incredibly traumatic. And just what followed that wasn't just typical physical recovery. It was navigating postpartum OCD, which I didn't know I had.

And just the emotional aftermath that so many women quietly struggle through, all while also filming a reality show, which most people don't have to deal with, but that was just an added craziness at the time. But it's like the expectation is often that once you give birth and your baby arrives, you're supposed to feel, you know, nothing but joy and gratitude and all of these things. And it's like, that's not a lot of women's reality. And so many women are just left wondering, like, what's wrong with me? Why am I sad? Why am I not connecting with my baby? Why am I feeling this way? And I think that back in the day, it's like if we think back to even our parents, but our grandparents, like how many must have dealt with like postpartum depression and OCD and had no idea what was wrong with them.

And the truth is nothing is wrong with you. You know, postpartum mental health conditions are common. They're treatable. And they deserve to be talked about without shame. It's just heartbreaking that in 2026, you know, we're still hearing stories about women feeling dismissed and judged or even professionally punished for speaking honestly about their mental health or when you speak about it, the show just like doesn't show it at all because they don't find it important. And I mean, this is one thing I'm so glad that the Valley got on board with, you know, talking about

postpartum depression. And whether it's that postpartum anxiety, OCD, birth trauma or psychosis, like these conversations shouldn't be controversial. They should be normal. Like we should normalize talking about maternal mental health. And so you also see how much information that there is not, people are not aware of the information or you even see on the Valley like Luke doesn't seem like he understands. He's like, is it mean? Am I doing it? It's like she just gave birth. Yeah. Doty wrote this great article or co-wrote this article, I think in women's health or something. They really even said after the Valley, she then realized exactly what was going on. Yeah. It was getting more of the help that she needed. So it's weird to watch this valley as this kind of like

time piece where you almost. has to have to look at it like an asterisk of like she's you know she's dealing with something that she's not able to fully explain the men don't seem to be able to understand at all and it just shows how much how much information is not out there that people are are aware of in terms of women's health yeah i'm very i am very interested in how neutrogena is going to respond right i mean i am i would love to be in those strategy sessions that are how do it has to be so careful because like you have one chance to get it right because like it you're on display right now. People are not happy

and you got to do it right. I also feel like, you know, Bravo and these other networks have the biggest opportunity to really showcase because I think the response from the Valley was like, we want to see this. The sad part was, it was overshadowed by the men. I felt like we kept hearing

too much about Luke and Danny and all of it. This is not about you. Take yourself out of this entirely. She's already told you she loves you. You seem to need constant pants on the back. Yeah. Like just for doing basic things. And it was infuriating for the office for the for the audience. I think. Yeah. It was. And so I really think because it's like it's really crazy that we live in a time where why have I only heard about paramedipause for the first time in the last like year? Literally had no idea what any of this stuff was. Yeah. Until I mean the hormones are no joke. Like you think like I imagine you think you're going crazy. Yes. Yeah. I did not understand why I was seeing these. images in my head and I'm like, I don't want to harm my baby. I don't want to harm my husband.

But like, why am I seeing this stuff all of the time? Like, what is wrong with me? And you're afraid to say it out loud because I'm like, I don't want people to think I'm crazy. Yeah. Like, I could never say this on national television that I'm like the images I'm seeing in my head until I did open up to my therapist and me opening up to her made me confident to open up on the show, write about it in my book. And I mean, even just this weekend, I did the drag brunch at the Macy's Walnut Room and Chicago iconic open since 1895. Oh, wow. Crazy.

But I had women coming up to me that were just thanking me and got diagnosed because of me, because they recognized behaviors and patterns and things that, like, I was going through that they're like, wait, me too. And then they were diagnosed postpartum OCD, postpartum anxiety. And it's just like, this needs to be talked about more and women shouldn't be shamed. and, you know, losing work because of it. Yeah. When I was flying back from New York, I ended up watching Shutter Island.

Oh, yeah. And I had kind of forgotten about it. And then I forgot the whole Michelle Williams aspect of it of like, at the end of the day, this woman had postpartum psychosis or depression and murdered her children. And now, again, we're watching this Lindsay can't fancy trial. I know. I want to get into that too. And I, you know, I don't know how to respond to it other than like that. woman was not helped. All the signs were there. It seemed like, and nobody helped her. And it's so

sad. But you can make that, you know, it's like Hayden, you know, is that there are so many signs of like, people are like, oh, well, you know, this person failed her and this person failed her. And those are all true. But it seems like we fail so many people. And we don't realize until it is way too late, even though we have all of the information laid out now of this happening again and again and again. And to your point about Nutragenia, I'm really also curious because you do have to handle it so delicately if you're them because who knows? They might be like, it's not even that. It was because she was late to like 30 photos.

Like you can't say that either. They can't, you know, they have to just, you know, exactly. Do that perfectly. Why do you think brands have historically been more comfortable celebrating pregnancy and motherhood rather than talking about like what happens after the baby arrives? Like does that create unrealistic expectations for women?

I mean, it's the same reason that like the whole joke about like women don't poop or fart, you know? Like, it's like, they only want to see, like, the beautiful. It's like, what do you do? Rebecca doesn't? Okay. Well, we're going crazy. But, yeah, they, like, they only want to celebrate, like, the beautiful side of it.

You're using the image of the pregnant belly and all of that, you know, the media blitz around that kind of stuff. Because I remember, you know, I used, I knew this woman, you know, when I worked in media back in New York, who lost her job, she started talking about her endometriosis online. And they were like, no, we want to. to maintain this image of you being a beautiful woman and you talking about these things. And so they fired her. I believe she sued them and I think they settled. But yeah, I mean, it's like, God forbid you talk about what's really going on inside.

Yeah. But even taking the valley is that like kind of test show is that we'd so much rather talk about Darkside Danny and all of the insanity if he's sneaking like a for a third season. You're going to high at noon here and there rather than what Kristen is actually going through. Like why were there no conversations just like really like her and Nia? Because it's not sexy enough. I mean, that's what I would imagine. And Janet even, like, you had an opportunity to bond these women over something,

but instead we're just going to keep fighting over how much the dad with four under four drinks. Yeah. When I... And who still has an insane amount of support for some reason. Right. Yeah. And it's like, I mean, on part three of the reunion as they're talking about this, Nia is saying, you know, like, if that was my day-to-day, okay, I could understand the concern.

But Daniel isn't getting drunk at home. not that person. Like when there are cameras there, sure, it's not an excuse, but it is a heightened environment. There's high anxiety. And people do drink a little more sometimes when they're filming because it's just, it's a lot. There's a lot going on. There was a miss opportunity in this past season of the Valley. And I, and I get it because there was just barriers that like, each side was not willing to come down on. Yeah. But if they had met in the middle, I know that, yes, conversations that Janet and Kristen and Nia could have all had and Brittany could have all had about motherhood and going through this.

It would have been. It's one thing that could have really bonded the women. It's what rebonded Lala and I season nine. I would have had no interest in ever befriending her again had we not been back on the show. You know, it was like we didn't film for a year, year and a half. And then here we are, season nine. both newly postpartum. I believe I was still in diapers

for the conversation I had with her. But I'm like, we can choose to like keep this beef going. We don't have Stasi and Brittany on the show anymore. You're the only person who understands remotely what I'm going through. Although Homegirl snapped back in like 10 days, which is just like crazy.

But I'm like, I can choose to bond with you over motherhood and like try and rekindle a friendship or we can just keep hating each other. Yeah. And maybe we should have just kept dating each other. And you guys are great now. Yeah.

But, you know, I mean, that was solely the reason that I was open to a friendship with her again. Because she had already hurt me so many times. And then she did it again that season. And then, you know, where we are now. But it's like, I just felt so desperate for a mom friend that I was like, I don't care about anything you've done in the past. Like, let's just fresh start, clean slate and, like, be mom friends. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't want to speak.

too much on Rebecca's journey because that's her journey, but it is, I think it is that kind of thing where you're like, you're celebrated, it's like this beautiful thing, you've got this baby, but then it's like you potentially in diapers and you're doing that, you know, it's like all of this other like really unglamorous kind of nasty stuff where you're freaked out about certain things. Yeah, it's not talked about enough. And it's not, just to normalize it to be, this is, you know, you're not crazy. Yeah. This could happen to you. And there are resources out there if it does because you have to be as open as possible. And there's such a secret shame behind it where people aren't communicating what they're actually going through.

Yeah, it's just like, oh, don't announce your pregnancy until you're like past 12 or 14 weeks because what if you have a miscarriage? What if you do? Then you have more support. Yeah. Why can we not talk about it? You're like, oh, I'm three weeks pregnant. Why can we not talk about that?

Yeah. Just found out on our trip to have a suit with one of my cousins was three weeks pregnant. And now she's 10 weeks pregnant. She's like, God, I found out so early. It's like, I'm still in my first trim. Yeah. And it's like the longest pregnancy ever because she found out right away. but I'm like, why not tell your family if you're three weeks pregnant and you know,

like what's wrong with that? Yeah. But is that then more pressure on them if everybody knows and keeps checking in on you? I don't know. I think it depends on the person. You know, if it's me, love to be checked in on. Was there anything that surprised you about the mental or emotional recovery with Rebecca that maybe people don't have partners for?

I will, you know, she has a great doctor, you know, I will say she communicates everything through him and I know she's had a couple up and down moments, but when she does, that's talked about and she takes care of it and stuff. And I will say that's because of other women sharing their stories. Yeah. And she, you know, but it's, it's one of those just unfortunate after effects because it's the happiest time of your life too, because you're bonding with your baby and it's like this amazing thing. And there's this, your, your adrenaline is so jacked. You're not sleeping. You're trying to be the perfect mom or the perfect dad. And you just realize they're, only so many hours in a day.

Yeah. Sleeping for that. So it's, it's just this big mess that, I mean, everybody kind of tells you, but you don't realize until you're in it. Yeah. And then all my job is, is to be as supportive of her as possible. And that's why it was frustrating to watch the Valley because it was like, Luke, you just have one job, man.

Just zip it. Yeah. It's not about you. It's just not about you right now at all. And he just felt like he wanted a hug all the time, right? Like, Carl Radke, like, can I have a hug? And it was like, dude. this is like the one time for this year.

It is nothing. Just do whatever is needed. You know, say goodbye to fishing for a while and just be there. What did you think of those photos of Carl and Lindsay? Was it like deadline or something? I mean, look, I went and saw the FYC panel. I was like, can I bring my baby? Yeah.

I was like, I want it to go so badly. Yeah. And it's like, look, they have a great banter. And I love that they've gotten back to this place where they can be friends again. I don't think that they need to be involved romantically. And I know people love to like romanticize it. I think they're greatest friends and let's leave it at that. But also I think Lindsay likes to tease it.

Lindsay likes that. Of course. Lindsay likes it. It tittalates us. Like I think there's like a funny, you know, I mean, say that now and a sex tape will be released next week. What do you call? It's called Hard Bar.

Yeah. Sorry. Oh, my God. You've obviously Kiki covered like celebrity culture for years. Do you think we're finally at a place where audiences reward. vulnerability while brands are still playing catch up? Or have you seen that shift happen on both sides? I mean, I think that brands respond to whatever audiences like give them okay to respond to. And so that's why it's really important for the audiences to get behind, you know, when something means

something to them. I saw, I don't know if you saw this thing that was going viral on threads the other day after the Neutrogena stuff. But this woman who claimed to be a brand manager was like, I've gotten rid of like, you know, all these clients because I told them to keep. keep their mouth shut about Nutragina. And then everybody, she got ratioed to hell, right? Because everybody was like, I will never follow someone who doesn't speak up for what I believe is right. And I want to know where they stand on these things. And like, so anyways, the whole point was like, you know, look, I know Drew Afalo is getting like also cream like right now this week.

But I remember I went to a panel of hers very early on in her career. And she was asked, like, do brands, are they afraid to work with you? You're so like you never know what's going to come out of your mouth. You might say something. And she goes, they don't care. She's like, at the end of the day, like, if you have an audience that likes what you're saying, the brands like that you have an audience that likes what you're saying and they do not care. And I've kind of stuck with that where it's just like.

Everything's monetized, right? So it's all about the attention economy. And if you can guarantee a little slice of that attention economy, no matter what you're saying, the message really does turn out to be not the thing. And that's why it's unfortunate. Like I wish it was like, oh, we're really concerned about this. And so that way, when it actually is talked about, it's that more highlighted. But it's not that.

It's just like, can you guarantee the algorithm will choose your audience to push this message out to? And it's always for some silly bullshit product to begin with. It's all insanity. But that's it. It's like, you know, I was listening to Bo Burnham the other day. And he was like, man, we used to colonize land. And now we colonize your attention. We need more of your out.

We need more of your eyes. You know, it's like you think you can only watch three hours on YouTube. I bet we can get you to watch four. And that's what it is. Like the art, it's just colonizing our attention. Yeah. We are the product. Who said that?

I can't remember who said that. Oh, I don't know. Might have been Kanye, but. No, but not quote Kanye. Oh, well, it's just, when I saw that with Hayden, I mean, that just, that's one of the ones that, like, really hits, you know? I mean, we've watched her what feels like our whole lives, her whole life, you know. ever since she was a kid, I remember her on Ali McBeal. Did you guys watch that show?

Yeah. I mean, sort of. Was she the dancing baby? No, she was. But, like, she was the kid on that and then remember the Titans. I mean, iconic. Like, just absolutely heartbreaking. I was listening to her.

I listened to audio books while I'm rocking Romy a lot of the time. And I listened to her as just like a month and a half ago. Oh, wow. And it was, you know, it was great. I listened to a lot of celebrity. Yeah, she reads it. And she's obviously gone through so many things. And it seemed like she was really honest about her journey.

Yeah. So honest that by the end, I was almost like, I'm really excited and interested about her future. Yeah. And so it was heartbreaking. Yeah. I think that's going to be my next audio book for my drives. I finally finished the Britney Spears one. Oh, that was a good one too.

Yeah, I just, I'm not great at reading, sitting down and reading a book. It's like when I have time, I'm crazy. I drive from the valley to Lomita, which is like Redondo Beach twice a week to work out because I just love my trainer. And then when I'm at home, I have like my tonal or the ladder app or like things that I do in my garage. But I will drive far. So like on those drives, I'm like, I have a leased vehicle. I don't give a fuck about how many miles I'm putting on it. Never leased a car in my life.

It's the best thing. But a gas is stupid. Whatever. But. Let's like we're on banner pump rules and they did that little video game when sheena moved to Marina. Marina. Marina del Rey. That's an insane distance because you like your trainer.

It is. And that's a lot of time. But it's a lot of time, but it's time to myself. And it's time where I'm either listening to Giggly Squad or I'm listening to an audio book. I've completed three or four full books now just on those drives. And it's like those are books that I've wanted to read for, I mean, Brittany's came out, what, three years ago, never read it. And I've always wanted to. But I'm like, oh, after I think me recording my audio book, I'm like, wait, I could totally do this.

It's just like listening to a six-hour podcast. That's what I'm here. I'm bad with audiobooks, but people tell me that memoirs are better in audio books. I can never listen to fiction. Yeah. It always has to be nonfiction. Yeah, like I can't imagine necessarily listening to like

Twilight on an audiobook. You know, that I needed to read. I would actually pay good money to watch Sheena listen to the Bible. Right? And just the faces. She would be like, what? You just go back in time to me in high school. And that was my religion class in the 100 wing.

Oh, yeah. Okay, I do want to get into this trial. I'm going to take one more quick little break. And then we'll get into that. I can't believe it. We are counting down the days until summer goes back to kindergarten. I know some of my friends' kids have already started summer starting this coming week. And by the time these kids go back to school,

summer has basically made them a completely different person. You remember what it feels like, right? To go back to school shopping with your parents. If they're like mine, they took you to Ross. I just felt like every summer I developed my own sense of style for the new school year that even if I was in uniforms, I needed to have the coolest shoes. I needed to have the coolest accessories and backpack and headbands and all of the things. You know, for everything this school year has in store,

Ross has your style for it at 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices. For kids, it's the ideal place to explore styles and help them get ready for the new school year with new friends and a new class. You know, it's an exciting time, but it can also be a nerve-wracking time. So make back-to-school shopping fun. Go to Ross. You can find your local Ross at ross stores.com. Dear Media Buy Day is coming to Austin. Get ready for a full day of real conversations, genuine connection, and your favorite voices, brands, and experiences, all in one space, live at Distribution Hall on September 26. Lauren and Michael Bostic, Sarah Foster, Mary Holland Nader, and special guests are taking

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So this discussion feels timely as we're right in the middle of the Lindsay Clancy trial, which has probably been taking over a lot of people's social media feeds over the past week. If you haven't been following it, Lindsay Clancy is a former labor and delivery nurse from Massachusetts who is on trial in connection with the deaths. of her three children in January 2023. The facts of what happened aren't really

in dispute, at least in the court of law, court of public opinion, different story, you know. But the central question for the jury is whether she should be held criminally responsible or whether she was suffering from postpartum psychosis at the time to such a degree that she lacked

criminal responsibility. So it's just one of those incredibly tragic cases where, there's almost like universal agreement that everyone involved has suffered unimaginable loss, but there's this fierce disagreement over how the law should view her mental state. So I wanted to talk about this because this case has sparked a much bigger conversation online, not just about the trial itself, but about, you know, maternal mental health, warning signs,

access to care, and how we talk about these conditions in general. So first question, Ryan, as a new dad, has followed. this case changed the way you think about postpartum mental health or the importance of checking in on new moms? I think I was already there, but I can see the importance. I mean, and another really sad reminder that this is very real. And the real sad thing was it seems like she was communicating. She was telling, you know, I'm having dark thoughts. I'm this or that. And that's the thing of like, for people to take this very seriously. I mean, you look at that woman and she looks haunted. I mean, She's in a wheelchair now.

And she's, you know, she was obviously going through a real mental health break, which I think people still don't understand that those things can really exist. Yeah. Where you just completely check out from who you are in that. I mean, yeah, we just saw that with Perez Hilton. You know, heartbreaking and someone who's a father. It's like when you snap, you get in that mental state. It's just like this does need to be talked about more.

There needs to be more resources. These things really like who's the influencer who. Emily Kaiser. She unfortunately, like tragically lost her child. She went out for the first time. Her baby drowned. Her husband was, I guess, like sports betting or something and just lost sight for a couple of minutes. She got alerted on her phone. Like, you know, rushed back. It was just really tragic. And I will say, even things like that, though, I was, Rebecca went to a wedding this weekend and, you know, we were going over bath time. And she was like, there is no phone at bath time. Yeah. Not even. I'm like, no, I know. But like, it does open. These kind of things do open up conversations as crazy. as easy as that may sound that you are able to discuss freely because you have something to point to. Yeah. It's not crazy to talk about these things. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like you turn your back for one minute. And it's like that's all it takes. When there is water and a child who doesn't know how to swim, it's a baby. It just, it is so, so scary. Yeah. Kiki, I know you followed this closely. What do you think is the biggest disconnect between what's actually being presented in court versus what's going like viral?

on TikTok and Reddit. Well, as someone who reports on, you know, true crime often, here's the thing. Like, I love when people get involved and sometimes the audience uncovers things that, yeah, lawyers can't even see. The problem is I realize how much information you get being in that courtroom every day. And when you're only getting information fed to you by people who are hearing it also thirdhand, you're not getting the full picture. And so that's why I've even kind of toned back some of my trial coverage because unless

I can like watch it online and see the testimony and hear the evidence myself, I don't feel comfortable because, again, there is so much information that happens in the courtroom, even the Tom Girardi trial, which has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Right. But like, it was like, I don't know what, a week long or two week long trial. But so much was said in that courtroom and what I was hearing from people who wrote online, And I was like, this is only a 10th. So I think that's,

they're just looking for that clickbaiting thing. Right. They're looking for the thing that will exactly get those views. And I think that's the disconnect is right now, like you said, we live in the attention economy. People want to just get that one sound bite. And also, unfortunately, the algorithm I find pushes misinformation more than it pushes the truth.

Or even with Aidan Benazierre, even with Perez Hilton, it makes me want to like, it makes you want to bash my head against a wall sometimes because I have, I'm a student of pop culture. Like ever since I was a little kid, it's like seeing the Matrix. You're like, God, I see this every time. Or even with the Hayden thing. Now it's going towards like the Jeffrey Epstein land of it all and the man on the yacht and all of these things, which is, yes, that is a problem as well.

Yes. You know, but also multiple truths can be held at once. Yeah. But with this, I just keep here, oh, the husband, it's got to be the, oh, he's guilty as sin. I'm like, okay, what are the fact, nobody is arguing the fact that she did this. Yeah. But it is now, is this man responsible for it as well?

And that seems to be the big narrative. And I don't know if that necessarily even helps Lindsay. Yeah. That's the thing. I don't know if it does either. And again, I feel like, hey, again, unless you're in the courtroom and listening to all the evidence, guys, like, let's tone it down a bit because like some of this is getting lost. And the important messages that need to be coming out of this woman, woman needed help. Yeah.

And like, did she have the capability of knowing what she was doing at the time? It seems like what we need to get to. And I feel like a lot of people are asking whether or not he recognized how serious her condition had become. You know, like as a spouse, I feel like you do have a responsibility. And like when your partner is repeatedly telling you they're in a crisis, you do have a responsibility as their spouse, as their partner, as the mother of your children. But see, that's why the Valley is really interesting as well, because you have these examples of Doty is communicating to a degree of what she's going through. And Luke is kind of sidestepping that and going, but, but what about me? You know, this is how I'm feeling.

I want to communicate. Okay, Shina. What about me? Or you have Danny on the other side of Nia's got one on the boobs. I mean, obviously, and he, and he's like, oh, everybody hates me. Yeah. You know, that's not what he's like, we have a babysitter. Give it to the babysitter.

And it's just like, yeah, like it's. You can see a world in which, yeah, this man probably ignored every sign that was given because he's a man. And he either is thinking about his work, himself, something that is not involving his family and did not put any sort of necessary roadblocks in place. Yeah. Yeah. Regardless of how this trial ends, what conversations do you hope it sparks about just maternal mental health support systems and like recognizing when someone may be in crisis? I mean, what I hope and what I, you know, think will have. happen? I don't know. I mean, I didn't, I think I just saw a post by Cecily Strong. I have to go back and look. It seems like mental health services all around are being cut in every place we look. You know, health insurance is becoming, you know, it's just like, and especially for women. I mean, I was talking to Durinda the other day and she was saying, you know, she was just looking for a doctor and she was calling around. And this one doctor was like, oh, I don't take patients over 60. What do you mean you don't take patients over 60? That's literally midlife. Like that's a lot of life to live. And so we have a lot of life to live. And so. So it's just when you hear things like that, you start getting depressed because you're like,

I know the conversations we should be having. But the way the direction of this country is going, I don't know if they're going to be had because I don't know if the services will be available. Well, I mean, yeah, things are getting cut. I mean, it's pretty bleak out there. I mean, I will say even for myself, when I was looking for a therapist a couple of years ago, it was, they really put you through it. You have to find out, you know, the list of people that actually go through your insurance,

which is like kind of bleak in itself. I had like women that were in their 90s like, you know, like that were they were on the list. No offense to therapists in their 90s, but you'd have a conversation. You're like, oh, this isn't. The options were not great. And it was very frustrating where I could see like if it's this hard for me, you just want to give up. And so it would be interesting or amazing if this did spur a conversation about how important aftercare is just like when you're getting monthly checkups to do body scans and like that with the pregnancy. Why can't this be a part of the whole experience?

Yeah. You have like one questionnaire six weeks after you give birth. And it's like, are you depressed? Do you have this? Do you have that? Check yes or no. And then it's like, okay, you're good. Bye.

Yeah. I lied on my paper. So it's like there was no follow up. There was no anything else. It was just like, okay, you're just going to take my word for it. And I'm just like dismissed. You're cleared to have sex. Go.

I'm like, I'm not okay. Yeah. But I'm afraid to tell you I'm not okay because you might put me on a medication or do something to me that's like not the right thing because I'm not okay. But I'm not going to tell you I'm not okay. Yeah. Well, yeah. And then you get scared, especially when you hear things about this administration saying like, well, people

who have mental health, like it sounds like they want to put them in different, you know, literally. You know, cord to them off or take them onto, I don't know. Well, that conversation of them even wanting to take away access to SSRI. Yeah. And I'm like, you know, like you thought gun control fighting was bad. I will fight over my SSR. Yeah.

Yeah. I had a friend tell me that when she was going through such gnarly postpartum that her partner was like trying to 50. 150 her and she was just like, I'm not crazy. I am postpartum. Like it was just like, it was so bad. And she's like, men just don't understand. Yeah.

When it's like the hormones are no joke. But then it's like you put all the other mental health with the hormones. On top of taking care of a new boy. You have to keep a human alive. Yeah. Like for first time moms, it is fucking terrifying. There's this tiny little helpless thing that you just have to keep a live every day. I don't even, like, when my friends have their babies, I say I'll come over in three months when their necks are strong. Like that neck alone. I used to say that too. Then I was the one that was like, no, I have to keep her neck strong. Yeah. Romia has such good neck control. I don't want to bring. No, I mean, like, we were told really amazing. That is incredible. That is the one that I'm like, can I just like birth like a five month old? Because. But the good thing about us, I don't say we don't put, we don't pressure. We don't ask people to come over. We don't pressure anything. It's like you'll see her when you see her, you know.

There's none of that. We're like, yeah, stay away. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Going back to the trial. So one thing that seems undisputed is that Lindsay had been seeking psychiatric treatment for months. She had tried multiple medications, spent time in an inpatient program.

And according to testimony, was very open with providers and family about struggling and having intrusive thoughts. When someone is repeatedly asking for help and still ends up in a crisis, like what does that, say about the system. Like the system failed her, I feel like. Well, I thought they're like also don't doctors, I don't know what's under the Hippocratic oath or even when it comes to psychiatrists and they're like, what do you have to report

and when does it become their responsibility to take it to another party? Like, those are the things I'm not aware of. Yeah. And like at what point does the conversation shift from what happened that day to were there missed opportunities to prevent this from ever

happening? When you add medicine into the mix, that is such a delicate balance of finding the right. Like you even said, you were scared that they're going to put you on something that might make things worse or something. And so these medicines, like they do have a great effect and can really help you. But they can also, that's why you have to have, it's really delicate and you have to be able to check in with somebody about how you're feeling. And these follow-up appointments are very important. And being honest is very important. Yeah.

You know, you lied there if, I'm not saying this is what happened, but if Lindsay is lying in a certain case, is that then the responsibility of a doctor to be able to suss out that their patient is lying. Right. Yeah. That's what's tough. It's like it is hard to open up about stuff like this. And then it's like you, some people don't want to be put on a medication or the fear of being put on the wrong medication. That was for me. Because I'm like, what if they think I'm depressed and they put me on Lexapro.

Like that's not going to help the intrusive thoughts. I don't know if there's any magic pill to help the intrusive thoughts. But once I was completely open and honest and I got on Zoloft, I mean, that has been life-changing. I was talking to a friend like two nights ago about, she was like, oh, we're on the same milligrams, right? Like 75. And I was like, oh, no, girl, I've doubled since the last time I checked in with you. And she was like, wait, really? And I go, and it has helped so much.

So I'm like, if you're struggling this much on 75, there is no shame in asking your doctor to up it. you go up a little bit, like you might go to 100. And then I think from 100, I maybe went to 150. I don't know if I did 125, but it was a slow build. And now I'm like, okay, I feel pretty good. Nothing is going to make the intrusive thoughts go away, but I'm able to just like, see them and push them out more. And now they're more about like my cats than my kid.

And maybe that's because Penny just passed away. But like when I'm holding one of the kittens upstairs, I'm like, oh, they for real might launch out of my arm. and just go over the rail. Summer was never going to do that. I saw it happening. But now I'm like, don't carry the kittens upstairs.

They might do this. It's just like, yeah, fuck. Yeah. I just don't think there's a magic pill for anything. I wish there was. Well, no, I was like, when I even got an SSRI years ago,

I was like, God, if this could just give me like magic confidence. Oh my God. It doesn't do that, but it does break up negative thought patterns. It does like make things easier from like staying in a dark hole. It would just make those reaction times less and less, which I found very helpful.

Yeah, the hardest part is that the reality of health care is you have to put in so much legwork to get taken care of. Like, even if you just want a regular doctor, just going through the doctor that I was even comfortable talking about my weight and all of those things with, it took a while to get to someone that I found. And mental health, like, I can't even imagine all of the things, especially since a lot of them don't want to deal with insurance. And so, you know, if you want to go and find someone outside, like, can you afford it?

So it takes a lot of legwork. And if you don't have the mental ability to do it, I don't know if you'll ever get there. And that's the saddest reality. My mom always told me you have to be your best advocate when it comes to health care. When she was going through. Yeah, you have to. So when she was going through her cancer battle, she was so on top of everything. But I was like, that's not me.

Like she got off on like calling doctors and stuff like that. Yeah. So this week he posted and then quickly deleted, which I did not see. I was just told. I do not follow him anymore. an email that he'd sent to Brittany criticizing the way she's handling Cruz's health care. Brittany wasted absolutely no time responding. And she basically said he was misrepresenting the situation, called out his lies and omissions,

and reminded everyone that she's been the parent handling the day-to-day care for Cruz, which I think you don't have to know Britney to see that. I know Britney and I do see that. But it quickly turned into another very public chapter of what has already been an incredibly messy divorce. What was your first reaction when you saw Jacks publicly posting his private email about Cruz's health care? I was like, you are dating your publicist. Do you not have pillow talk at all? Who recommended this, babe? I've got, hey, let Jack's handle this one. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there is the Jackson Lorry of it all. I know Kiki and I have discussed this,

but I'm curious, your thoughts, Ryan. I mean, it's, it's, it's insanity, but at the same time, It's the least surprising thing to me. I just find it very sad. You know, I always like to joke around about Jacks, but it's very sad when it's like the child is so publicly being brought out into things. Yeah. And I will say, I'm glad that the statement wasn't written by ChachyPT. There was a lot of misspelling.

Very classic Jacks. The other thing is, I think it speaks to our goodness that people still want to believe him. But I always like to point out is like, this is a man who Brittany is still paying his $1.25 million dollar tax lien. And the fact that the fact that the only thing that isn't getting posted is just like, thank you so much. I know our relationship didn't work, but my God, you really held it down for me. You held it down for our child. And we are both better off for this. I mean, that to me is not insane that she is not getting a thousand thank yous publicly from this man.

Yeah. And the fact that he just doesn't seem to be able to wrap his mind around how this looks. And that's even the frustrating thing with Lori. because I'm like, Lori, you are a PR per. You've been doing this for a very long time. She's very bad at her job. I mean, I'm just like, are you this dignitized by Jacks that you think that this is the right way to go about any of this?

Because I thought there was a real shot, like an outside shot that this man would find his way back under the valley someday. And ever since I said, I honestly thought so too. But not after this. No. And I feel he might have even been doing this in his fucking weird mind. to have a storyline to get back on the Valley. You know, like, I could see him being so sick and twisted

that it was just like, well, I can have like my own little scandival moment and he doesn't care if the world hates him. But nobody knows Lori except for us deeply parasocial people. Yeah. It's not like, I mean, we freaked out about it, but the majority of people that watch the Valley do not understand the lore of Lori. But you could go into it.

You could go. Flashbacks. I mean, she, but also, like, there was alleged physical violence. There was alleged, like all of these things that allegedly happened. And I just feel like you are tempting fate. And this makes me nervous because he is not going and he's not getting and he's not going to get the reaction that he wants to get, which I think usually makes people like this angry. Yeah. And you don't know, just like you don't know with your mental health.

You don't know what anger does to people. You don't know how they're going to react. And I feel like this was my problems with reality stars. They feel like they are owed a future. They feel like, okay, I was on Vanderpon. So I deserve to make money for the rest of my life. Yeah. But once again, it's like, I shouldn't feel that way.

No, no. I want to point out. My second thing is all the women of Vanderpump rules are still out there doing it. Yeah. They are still out there doing it. The men. The men. We got the sandiball.

We got, you know, like Schwartz, God love him. You know, he's, but like sandiball and jacks, it's sad, man, when you look into what's going on. And a lot of them, those guys, they're still stuck in a time frame where they think that you are rewarded for your bad behavior. And that is why Jack's probably in his mind thinking, like, oh, if I do this, like, I probably could get back on because I've always rewarded for my bad behavior. And we've moved on from that. But also, here's the thing that's so cringy and embarrassing for Lori. If my man was up listening to my ex-wife's podcast and taking notes and writing six-page emails,

I'd be embarrassed to go on a pap walk with him the next day. That's the thing. It's like, okay, they went from not being photographed together for months or likely years. personally, I think this has been going on for years, to all of a sudden, they're having multiple paparazzi shoots per week. And it's like, if you've worked in this business long enough, you can usually tell the difference between someone getting genuinely spotted by paparazzi, like they were last week. They're leaving. The laugh factory, yeah. And it's just like, keep walking, keep walking. It's like, oh, is this not the paparazzi you called Lori? Exactly.

You afraid of what he might say. The background from two weeks ago was amazing where jazz was like, oh, I didn't think you'd catch me here at the top floor of my gym. Oh, man. Everybody deserves love. We all just want a slice of happiness, right? Oh, God, love, Brady. And also, if you've ever been accused of anything even relating to violence, don't tell, don't say, oh, I love her to death. Oh, I love her to. Let's leave any sort of death out of it.

I thought that was just a complete flipping mess. Yeah. And it really makes me sad because I thought there was, he just played this completely wrong. And it just shows where his mind is at. But at the same time, I want to also, if you're still so. work on that man like keep going with that yeah I mean supposedly he's sober but it's like what about the anger yeah because I didn't know up until it was that we were at jasmine and melissa's wedding and I was talking to brittany and just asking like hey so how are things with jacks I was like he

texted me the other day and she's like he did what did he said and I was like we're just like checking in I was like he sounds like he's doing really good and like you know just said that it's great being away from the show his mental health and this and that and she's like oh do you want to see what he sends me and I'm like oh, so he hasn't changed. And I was just like, you know what? I'm done being nice when he checks in with me because as far as I know,

she's getting the same type of messages from him. No, no, no. She's getting the opposite. And I'm just like, maybe the sobriety was one part of it, but the anger. Yeah. We got to work on that too. Take your bipolar meds and like, yeah.

He even DM'd me a couple weeks ago. And I was like, I, like, I'm not open in this. I can't. But all I saw was this is a. mess. That was the, I don't know what happens after that, but I was like, I can't do this right now. I'm like, I was like up in the middle of the baby. Right. If you don't open that message.

This is like, it's like the conjuring. If you allow shit in, like, I don't want to be a sounding board and, you know, I've had conversations with Lori in the past as well where she would explain why like Jack's like, no, you got to understand. It's like this tragic figure, da, da, da, you know.

Oh, fuck off. And so I was even surprised because she, you know, I remember having a conversation there where she positioned and is like, no, it's like, we're family and, you know, Ryan and the manager and all of this stuff. And like, he doesn't have a lot of people out there. And I was like, well, I could see that and stuff. But I really, you know, I didn't, you know, the romantic angle, I'm like, how did this happen? And I wonder, I postulate if, if Valley doesn't pick him up, which I don't think there's any chance in hell, if he's like, what about House of Taylor? House of Taylor on

Hulu. I love what Stasi did. I can see that for me and Lori. Oh my god. If he's that delusional, which he might be, but I just... Oh my God. What about House of Sheena? Stasi. What about... Hey, Stasi. Sheena's coming to Hulu and report. Oh, but yeah, these photos of them, you guys, I'm like, oh, Lori, did you not like how you looked in the other ones? You needed to make sure to like tilt your head the same in every photo. Like, did you guys? notice that? Am I the only one you notice that? Oh my God. It's like all the backward photos. She just has, it's like the same. It's like my good side. You know, like when I see a camera, yeah, I am going to maybe lean to the side. I'm trying to be better about it. So is her business

still operational? Is she still representing clients? I think she's got a few who don't really, like, maybe like actors and people who aren't in this pop culture type of reality world. But all of the bachelor girls I know, they dropped her a while ago. And Schwartz dropped her when this happened. Yes. Uh-huh. Because that was on your pod. Yeah. Yeah, he dropped her. And I mean, I can't imagine she's doing well.

And yeah, I don't know. I'm so curious what their next moves are. Well, that's why I said also how idiotic that I'm like, if anybody missed him on the Valley, it's like he's here. I feel like it's like I watch that and then I watch whatever Jacks is up to and I feel like he's on this season of the Valley. Yeah. Well, you know who's not on the season of the Valley? Listen, I've told you I'm really, in retrospect, I'm very sad that you didn't say yes to this season.

It just didn't feel like the right time. I'm just not sure that that's where this next chapter of my story belongs. It didn't feel right. Maybe in the future. But last year where I was at, it just, I don't know, it didn't feel right. It does feel like it would be so easy. It makes so much sense. I'm literally friends with most of them. You know, I've also had some rude awakenings about some over the past year.

More people than just Lala. Yes. Correct. Yeah. So yeah, there's like some unresolved things. And I mean, I think from a storytelling perspective, it would be an organic fit. It would make sense. It would be easy. but it's also pulling on your mental health. And it's like at what cost? Like, am I ready to jump back in and do that again? I've had a year and a half, two years off. I don't know, how long it's been.

I don't know. But I never say never. But I don't know, regardless of what I do next, Bravo is always going to be like home for me, you know? So I want the valley to succeed. I want all my friends to succeed. I just, I don't, I don't know that I, like, I'm waking up. Like, yeah, I'm ready to do this.

Like, let's jump back in. Well, I don't think it's certain, if you've done this for so long, I don't know who is waking up going, yeah, I'm ready to do this. Lala, that's who. I miss going toes with people. But, yeah, I don't know. Anyways, I know you have to get going. Yes. So, thank you.

See you later. For being here. Make sure to listen to reality checked Monday through Thursday on Radio Andy. Radio Andy. Channel 102. Thanks for the plug. So is it true that Kiki's joining the Valley next season? I mean, that's what I heard, you know, from Orange County to the Valley. When's the last time you did talk to Lala?

And by the way, would you even have a conversation with Lala now or even vice versa? Because in her mind, she'd be saving it for reality TV show cameras. That's the thing. And here's one thing that I actually didn't point out last week that I wanted to. I will say she reached out about Penny. Pretty much everyone has reached out about Penny. So I just, I hearted that. That was nice.

I mean, it would feel very inhumane for anyone to not reach out when they know how big of a part of my life she was. But before that, I mean, we talked a little bit of BravoCon. I've seen her at maybe some like school things here and there, but like we haven't really talked. So it's not contentious publicly. I mean, here's the thing. I mean, publicly impress it might be. It felt watching the reunion.

It felt very performative to me. And for those who have watched Vanderpump World. they've seen the same pattern where she just, you know, wreaks havoc all season. And then it's like, oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. Let's be friends. And then like, I would forgive her. And then it was just like rinse and repeat. And it was this cycle that I was in with her. And when I was watching this on the reunion, I'm like, here's what would have made me believe those tears is if that day, the day that our daughters graduated school together and she's filming the reunion and all of these feelings. come up, maybe on your lunch break, maybe later that night, be like, hey, I know the girls graduated today in like this new chapter, whatever. Just want you to know, like, some stuff got brought up on the reunion today. Again, I'm so sorry for my part in any, like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

But the fact that she's never reached out after filming the reunion two months ago, never said anything, never gave me a heads up. I had Lacey, Jasmine, and Zach giving me a heads up on what was discussed that day. And a lot of it didn't air. But what did was the this. Was on the unedited. Right. Yes, it was.

And the hand in front of the face, it was like, hold on. Let me get my tears. And I was just like. She's really good at it. She is. That's what acting classes do, you know? But I don't think the majority of the audience was buying it because it's like, why are you doing this for TV and not picking up the phone?

I appreciated the text about Penny. Other people I'm not on the best terms with right now also reached out. I very much appreciated that. I would do the same. Was Jacks like, sorry about Penny? No, Jacks didn't say anything. But it's like if the tables were turned, I would do the same thing. When Lala had to say goodbye to Lily, I had commented on that.

We were still in an okay place at that time. But I just, yeah, I didn't believe it. You know, I know it is taxing and tolling and I say this to you all the time, but that's why I would want you back on the Valley because I feel like it would be interesting, obviously to watch these conversations happen. Yeah. I thought, you know, I think Lala did a great job on the Valley. You know, I think I can see exactly what they were wanting to get out of her and they got it.

That's why I always call her. It's like I say producer's pet. I don't mean it in a negative connotation, but I think they got exactly what they needed out of Lala. So now. They're trying to make her likable again. But see, now in a second, exactly, because I think a lot of people are still upset about the aure and stuff from the reunion. But now the most more important thing is in the second season, everybody, I always call it. Everybody has to hold the proverbial hot potato.

Everybody's got to get the focus on you. And what are you going to do in that moment? Right. And so Lala, like, had a perfect season because she was able to just comment on the insanity that she saw. And everybody was like, well, here's somebody new that's done reality TV show. But, well, I mean, she's right. And so she kind of was able to skate. Now, what happens when you're in the shit? And how do you react to it? And how do you respond to it? And that's where I thought it would have been so interesting for you to come in to be able to have that on top of the, The Valley's never going to be a fun show, but I do think you bring a certain amount of fun, lighthearted, fun, wackiness to things on top of being who you are in Syria. So I thought, oh, that would be a really nice color to see. And trust me, I go back and forth in my head.

There are days where I'm like, oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad genuinely I didn't do this past season. I feel like this past year has been incredibly healing for me. I really needed to not just do this past season. I feel like now I'm in such a stronger place. I'm in a more confident place. I now understand boundaries, which when Lala said that, like, oh, I don't recognize her. I was like, fuck.

Yeah, you don't. Because I'm not the same person who you could walk all over. Yeah. I'm glad you don't recognize me. That is the biggest compliment you could have given me. And I felt like it's not that I was necessarily like healing from reality TV, but it's like I was just healing from parts of my own. past and writing my book, that was one of the most cathartic experiences of my life. You know, especially reading the audio book and all of that. It forced me to revisit things that I had

buried compartmentalized or just like convinced myself I'd moved on from. But I had to sit with all of that. I had to process it. Your second book should be called my year with reality, my life off of reality. Oh, I already have chapters in a note, as I did for my first book, like I've already started what that next one's going to be eventually. My story currently is not finished being rewritten for that next chapter for that next book. I know that I'll know when the time is right. I think the audience also, I know we're wrapping up, but I think the audience also thinks that you really want to get on the valley.

And sadly, I have to say, I think that is really the furthest from the truth. I wish that you were more wanting it. And I, you know, like I just, I, I'm bummed. that I sometimes feel that you are not and I think that's really healthy and I guess I'm not used to reality stars making healthy decisions for themselves Right and that's the thing

no one walks away from this kind of paycheck trust me I did the math with my contract offer for me and Brock times 21 if we were in every episode it's a big number it's a big number I walked away from and nobody fucking does that because who's crazy enough to walk away from that much money

But I'm like, I, it wasn't a crazy decision when it was for what was best for my mental health, our relationship and our family at the time. And like, I still, I love reality television. I always will. I love watching it. I love making it. But I also love myself more. So are you announcing secret lives and Mormon wives today? How did you know?

But I just feel like if, not if, when I come back to reality TV, I just want to make sure I'm showing up as like the healthiest, happiest, most authentic version. of myself. Oh, we don't want that. No, no, no, no, no. Then stay off. Stay off TV. It's just this version of me. It's not a boring version. It is a version who would go in the room and read some bitches. Okay. Like, I feel like I just have such a newfound confidence in myself with the people I've surrounded myself with, the positive energy that just pours off me, all of these amazing women who are in my life, who have been there for me through all of this and I just, I want to show that. When I hear that, it makes me think you're pitching a show with those women.

That's what I mean like, I do this for a living. That's what I, when I just heard that, I feel like, and you, the show would be called shenan again. And by the way, you'll probably cut this out because I probably am nailing it on the head right now. But that's what I could see because I don't think you're going to stay off TV. I think you are going to do something that is more true to the person and the lifestyle that you live now. That's just from studying pop culture for so long, or that's maybe what I would recommend. Yeah. So we'll see what the future holds.

Maybe you get Katie Maloney to be in it. Honestly, would love. Yeah. Truly. Like, I love this version of Katie. This is the- This is the version I was best friends with, like, seasons three, four, four, five, whenever it was. But, like, when I saw her at Warp Tour with her man and, like, I've seen her at multiple

shows with him. He seems like a cool guy. He is so sweet. He's just out in the background being quiet. Like I was like, got to love him. He's not trying to insert himself and everything. I love this relationship for her. And like her and I, I would hope that one day we can get back to more of an acquaintance right now. It's just kind of like a commenting DM, a text here and there. But after I saw her at Warp to her, I text her and I go, I just have to say, like, I really love seeing how happy you are. And she was like, thank you. I didn't realize life could be this great. And it's just like, I feel that.

I'm like, it is just steeping out of you, like the happiness. And for a while, like, I remember Lala saying to me that she didn't like being friends with Katie anymore because Katie just was so mean and brought out this mean side of her. And she was always like, r-r-r-r-r-r-and- I'm like, that's not who she is. Like, she, I think at that point in time was unhappy in her marriage. And when I watched back season 10, it broke my heart because I'm like, I should have fucking been there for her as a woman who's also been through a divorce, but I was just so in my own shit at the time. And I highly, like, I deeply regret that. They only talked about it for like a

paragraph on a house of Stasi, her saying, I know what it's like to be living with like a best friend. Yeah. Like not have a romantic relationship with somebody and you're just kind of partners living in the same space. And I was like, that's, you know, she does know. I mean, she's been through the shit. Yeah. And it is so interesting then to see what she has now, which is amazing. No, I just, I love to see it. Well, thank you for me here. Thank you. I'm so happy to see you again. You too.

Do you have a jacks hole in mind? Anyone you want to give flowers to? Oh, I mean, Jack's old jacks. I mean, you're back, buddy. It's so easy. You're back on the jacks. We can also throw Marciano and Jesse in that category. I had Marciano on the podcast a couple months ago.

I didn't realize you guys didn't talk. I was like, how are you and Sheena? And he was like, we don't really talk anymore. And I was like, what? I was so out of the... This is what having a baby does to you. I'm so out of the loop. I did not even realize that.

Yeah. No. the fact that he lied about Demi called me, admitted he lied about DeMe and was willing to completely throw this woman under the bus to protect Jesse who he didn't sleep with but slept with but didn't but it just

Isn't that insane then to see him and Jesse together now and like those you don't talk to I mean like that blows my mind like they really they look all I can say is they study under your tutelage and they're they were very big LVP fans when I met them. And now they're, they're right next to her, you know?

Yeah, enjoy. Jesse idolizes Stasi and I think Stasi appreciates a new yes girl in her corner. Yeah, it's a bummer. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I thought I was bummed. I was dismayed to see her talk any sort of shit. And honestly, like the Marciano of it all, like there's still one day will be a conversation because he hurt me in a Tom Sandoval way. And like that is why my husband is just so like fucking off him because it really like did a number on me.

Like it genuinely hurt me like shed tears over. So I'm like, fuck you. But anyway, yeah, he's my Jacksonville of the day. Okay. Flowers of the week. I'm going to give him to my penny lane in heaven. We miss her. Oh.

Anyways, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Let's get some So Bad It's Good with Ryan Bailey and Sheena Shea on the book. Please. I've been asking to come on for years. I don't know about that, but we'll see. I have. So you tell me when and I will be there with a summer moon personal artwork. It's all happening. It's all happening soon on So Bad It's Good with Ryan Bailey.

All right. Thanks for being here. Thanks, so fun. I could talk to you for like hours. We'll just continue it on yours. Bye. Thanks for listening to Shananagan's with Shea. Tune in next time for juicy updates from the world of reality TV, pop culture, and more. Download new episodes every week on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements

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