School of War - From Teenage Soldier to Commander in Ukraine, with Mamuka Mamulashvili

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Earlier this year, Aaron MacLean visited Ukraine, where he met with Georgian Legion commander Mamuka Mamulashvili. What happens when a boy goes to war at 14 years old? What does a lifetime of fighting Russians teach you about how they operate? And what lessons should the West be learning from war in Ukraine? 02:18 - Growing up in Soviet Georgia 03:53 - Russia's invasion of Abkhazia 07:59 - Capture and torture by Russian forces 10:24 - The First and Second Chechen Wars 13:49 - Killing a Russian soldier for the first time 17:32 - Force vs. diplomacy 18:14 - Georgia's wars with Russia 20:19 - The 2008 Russo-Georgian War 23:47 - Georgian support for Ukraine 24:39 - Mixed martial arts 29:53 - Founding the Georgian Legion 33:33 - The defense of Hostomel Airport 43:32 - How drones have transformed warfare 50:45 - Russian disinformation 52:27 - Why Ukraine will ultimately win Follow along on Instagram, X @schoolofwarpod, and YouTube @SchoolofWarPodcast Find more at The Free Press. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Earlier this year, School of War went on the road to Ukraine, and we are going to start rolling the episodes we recorded there out today. For the delay, I blame the Islamic Republic of Iran. I had some extraordinary encounters during my time in Kiev and then out east in Kharkiv, and none were more colorful than today's conversation with the head of the Georgian Legion at his heavily fortified compound in Kiev. He has good reason for the fortifications, as people keep trying to kill him. Some of the themes that are evident in this conversation are going to play out in numerous episodes to come, especially how Ukrainians fighting for their national survival have made pioneering strides in the art of war in the 2020s,

especially when it comes to automation and harnessing the digital revolution. While at the same time Ukraine's politics and culture are extraordinarily fractious and replete with tension between different factions or between different layers and elements of the military, some of which are innovative to a fault and some of which are rooted in. in his Soviet cultural past. It's a story of a nation fighting for its freedom, and it's a fascinating one at that. Today, Mamuka Mamalashvili, the head of the Georgian Legion,

who killed his first Russian when he was 14 years old. Let's get into it. Spotify, it's for war, this Iraqi invasion of the way. Spotify, it's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people, scrolling through spreadsheets, searching for an audience that pays twice as much attention to your ads than they do on social?

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I am Aaron McLean. Thanks for joining School of War. I'm delighted to welcome to the show today. Mamuka Malashbili. He is the commander of the volunteer formation, the Georgian Legion. Thank you, sir, for joining the show. Thank you for inviting me. Look, we're going to, we're going to talk about the war. We're going to talk about your organization fighting in this war. But I want to spend some time talking about you and your life. You got a lot of fighting before this war. Tell me about where you were born, how you grew up, what Georgia was like when the, the Soviet Union was still active in existence. I've been born in Georgia and we see in a capital of Georgia. And I've been born during the Soviet occupation of Georgia. So in 90s, when Georgia started, let's say, getting rid of Soviet influence and leaving Soviet Union, Russia invaded Georgia and Georgia was the first council. who was united by Russia after the collapse of Soviet Union. So Georgia had its military elite.

And my father, military general, one of them. And he was serving in the Georgian army. And he had to go and protect our soil. And he took me with him. Wow. Tell me about your father's crew. Was he, did he fight? Was he in the Red Army before?

and then switched over. So the Soviet army, yes. Yeah, but he was serving in Georgia. I see. So when there was a collapse of Soviet Union, the Georgian army started forming and, you know, getting its shape. So my father was one of generals who started shaping the Georgian army. And then, as I understand it, so you're born in the 1970s, correct?

Yeah, it's 1978. And was your first exception? experience of combat. Was that the first Chechen war? No, it was Georgia in 90s, 90s. Georgia in the 90s, 92. Tell me about what happened in Georgia in 1992. Russia invaded a part of Georgia called Abkhazia, an Brazilian region of Georgia.

So it was the first try of hybrid war on the post-Soviet territory. Georgia was the first victim of Russian hybrid war. Georgia resisted fighting. a huge army or a huge Russian army for more than a year. So, you know, we lost a lot of people. We lost a whole generation defending Georgia, and unfortunately Russia killed a huge amount of Georgians,

Georgian Yaz who actually were going to shape New Georgia after the Soviet Union. So in 90s, Russia occupied 20% of Jordan territories. I can do a parallel with Ukraine after negotiations, so-called negotiations with Russia.

Georgia was forced to sign a peace agreement and take all the hands. heavy artillery on the front line. On a third day after taking all the artillery from a front line, Russia started, as usually, let's call it a full invasion and occupied the whole region of Abkhazia. And, you know, the war continued more than a year. So at the end of the conflict, me and my father

got to captivity. How old were you then? 14. 14, so you're fighting when you're 14. Yeah. So I became 15 as far as I remember in captivity. So it was my first steps,

let's say, in a fight against Russia. Generally my family had a very bad experience fighting Russian forces and Russian occupation. Most of My ancestors were killed in 1921 during the annexation of Georgia. And my family name was changed to one that I'm holding now. It's not our authentic family name.

What's the authentic family? It's Bakradi. So, Mamulashvili in Georgian, it means a son of a country. So my grandfather took this symbolic surname. After all, his family was killed. He was 18 years old guy who just escaped the assassination and just changed his name. And that's what saved his life. And that's how our line had continued to exist.

So my father, before his death, he changed back his surname. And he died with our old surname that we belong to. But you still have not much more. Yeah, I cannot change it because I have a lot of diplomas, all those documents are, you know, the new family name. And I'm very well known everywhere as Mongolsvili. So it will be very difficult for me to change. Yeah, fair enough. Okay, so you're 15 when you go into captivity.

Where are you in captivity? It's a small city called Buda Uta, in a Brazilian region. And it was the center of concentration of Russian army. So when we were captivated near the capital of Abkhazia, we were taken to one of P-O-E, POW. POW camp. Prisoner boy. Yeah.

So me and my father were separately in other cells. All the others were kept in the camp. Why were you in separate cells? because your father is senior? No, it's about they were going to influence my father with my presence there. So they took us to other place. They were actually torturing him right next self-mind. So it was quite hard, you know, times for me personally.

And, you know, my mentality started forming and, you know, getting a shape during this first experience of war. So they were torturing your dad, did they torture you? Not as much as older soldiers because they could not get any information from me. I was just to keep. But yes, I had some troubles there. But mostly Russians, it's not Abkhazians,

because Russians were trying to show it as an ethnic conflict. As a part of Georgia, I just wanted to leave. Georgia and they were just helping them. In fact, it was Russian invasion, of course. So as a result, you know, we had the special groups sent from Russia to torture military prisoners. So that was one of groups who was torturing my father and sometimes beating me too. When and why were you released?

When? After three months. I stayed there in three months. I stayed in captivity for three months. and my father was released two years after the end of the war because he refused to leave the prison until last of his soldier lives the camp. So he was the last to be exchanged. All right, so you're back home.

He's become senior, he's already senior. He's a general already. Yeah, he's a general. In the Georgian army. You're now a teenager. What, for people watching this, who may be not that familiar, but the sort of post-Soviet wars of this region, what is the first Cheshireen War?

How does it start? And then how do you become involved in it? You know, my father got a lot of friends. Some of the Chechens were fighting on the side of Russians in Abkhazia. So, you know, for Caucasian traditions, it's very important, you know, to see where the truth is. And those guys were very often coming to captive, camp of captives, and they were surprised when they discovered that a general took his son to sacrifice, you know, to motivate his soldiers.

And it was enough for them to start respect my father. And they had very close relations. They were coming daily, I remember, to our parents. prison cells and they were fighting on the side of Russia by that time and they were talking to my father for you know several hours and we know those guys started understanding that they were mistaken they were not on the side where they had to be and most of them left the occupied territory of Georgia after the meeting with my father and For them it was very important to see that no man would take his son to a war if he's not defending his country and his soil.

And they understood where the truth is from the very simple detail. They saw me in the next cell to my father. So for Caucasians it's enough to get the respect of the enemy. So after the beginning of the, it was 1995-96 when the first Chechen Wars, started so my father took me together with him and he was helping Chechens and he was helping one of the commanders. I just don't want to name him. So, you know, they became friends and I stayed for quite a time with the commander and I was helping them to fight against Russians. so there was another campaign in 2000 after so where also I participated and I was

decorated by Chechens with the medal for defending Chechnya so you know basically they did the same to Chechens but the propaganda against them was much more you know hard. They wanted to represent them as terrorists as people who just kidnap in our Russians and cut heads and so on. So they were very hard propaganda against them and I

understand that they were unable to resist it. They are Muslims. So there were some radical Muslims also but those guys were defending their soil. They were defending their mountains. They were defending their families and kids. So

Georgia hosted tens of thousands of Chechen refugees also. And we did our best to support our neighbors, though they are still occupied by Russia. We're going to spend a fair amount of time in a few minutes talking about this war and how things are on the battlefield. But tell me what it was like to fight Russians back as a teenager, whether it's the first invasion of Georgia or these wars in Chechnya. There are several movies, by the way, documentaries about that, and I can give you one of them.

I will suggest a kid with AK sitting and talking about work. That's what basically I'm doing now, but I was working in on TV. And it was taken, not by Georgian, it was taken by Japanese TV. Huh, okay. That was very, you know, interesting for me also. What did you tell them then, and what are your thoughts on? You know, I was watching it myself because, you know, I was interested myself. if my ideas back, you know, in the 90s and now were, you know, the same and if I did not, you know, mess up my way.

Yeah. So actually, I was thinking the same what, you know, I'm thinking now. The guy asks me in interview if I felt pity when I was killing Russians or shooting Russians. When I first killed a Russian guy, I remember the moment when I was killed. Tell me about that. No, I was standing behind the... a window and there was a piece of metal on a window when Russians were attacking and the guy he hasn't seen me. He was just two meters right in front of me and I told the first guy who I

shot. I closed my eyes and I shot 14 rounds. When I opened ice the guy was dead. So I got out for trophy, took his head, hat, and took it to my father. So that was my first experience. So of course it was a nervous moment because I have never done it before, though I was taught to do it. And, you know, it was a huge Russian for me, for a teenager, huge Russian with a Caucasian hat on a head. They call themselves Kozaks, but they have nothing common with Kozaks.

Is it a Caucasian hat? What is that? Yeah, it's a hat from the sheep's king. I see. Okay. You know, and there were Russians as all, you know, always stole the tradition of, you know, Georgian national clothes and also hats.

So the guy was wearing that hat, and I remember that I took that. And my father was on a fourth floor, and I took it to him, and I said that I killed a man. That was the first, let's say, experience that a teenager should not have. And I was forced to do that because, you know, the guy would not hesitate killing me. Of course.

So I was 14 and the man in a documentary asks me if I felt pity for him. I said I don't have a time being pity because, you know, my friends are getting killed and I never thought, you know, feeling pitiful. for a guy who came on my land to kill me and my family. So basically I think the same now. So my thoughts have not changed. I would answer the same. I was just surprised that I was thinking exactly the same what I'm thinking now.

That's why time to time I'm watching those old documentaries and trying to find myself if I'm changing or not. Have you ever changed your mind about it? I did not. it's not about killing it was for me it was a bad experience but uh the point was that i understood that there is nothing else that can stop russians there is no diplomatic you know language there is no words to make them you know feel something some you know human to have some human feelings and i understood that the sound of a bullet is the only thing that makes them understand

you know, how they should act. So I think a lot of people in America start paying attention to Russian aggressiveness with the 2008 invasion of Georgia. That's when the United States really starts paying attention carefully. Tell us how that started and tell us what you and your father were doing at that point. You know, unfortunately, Georgia was attacked away before 2008, and there was nobody helping us. We had no, you know, modern weapon or whatever is sent to Ukraine now. We were just fighting a beast with bare hands, with stones, sticks and knives.

That's how Georgia was fighting. It was 13 months that we were fighting a huge war machine. So, you know, I can say that Georgia is a nation of warriors. did not even know that Georgians per capita were killed more than any other nation in Afghani mission. So, fighting with the Russians in Afghanistan, so fighting with the Americans. With the Americans, peacekeeping mission. Okay. Peacekeeping mission.

So Georgia is the country number one who sacrificed more warriors per capita than any other country, even NATO country. well. So in Ukraine the same. You know, Georgia is, unfortunately, of course, we are proud of it, but Georgia is number one that are having a huge sacrifice for independence and democracy, you know, after Ukrainians. So Georgian Legion is the first foreign formation in the Ukrainian armed forces. And for me, it is a moment to be proud of. Georgian Legion is the only military formation in Ukraine, after which the square was called. So we have a square in Kiev called Georgian Legion

and a huge memorial for Georgian soldiers would be placed there. So, you know, in 2008 was more media war, let's say, because it lasted not more than five days. And it was the first time when I noticed hypocrisy of European politicians, tight connections with Russian business and Russian finances. When actually they didn't even want to mention Russia as the aggressor. They wanted to blame Georgia that Georgia started a conflict with Russia. in 2000, you know, and it was so disturbing for me that I got 100% sure that diplomacy has nothing to do in the world anymore.

You know, it just solves no conflict. It's all about, you know, personal contacts being friends with Russian oligarchs and, you know, with Russian war criminals. And that's what can solve the conflict, you know. That's how President of France He had a lot of Russian friends and he was a friend with Medvedo by that time. So they actually

made Georgia sign a peace agreement which was broken right after the signing. Russia started further occupying Georgia step by step and it continues right now

while we're talking here. So it was a more known conflict for all the other countries. And it just became more viral because it was 2008. There were technologies, you know, everybody was filming video and so on. And nobody much wanted, you know, to talk about it. They were just a little bit disturbed because it's in Europe and, you know, they have to react somehow and some of

our friends in French countries sent their presidents who actually stood in a city center of Georgia and said that we will not let you occupy Georgia they told it to Russia it was president

of Estonia Poland Ukraine by the way and two more I don't really remember so you know it was a very short conflict we did not even start

we started just preparing for it and calling our veterans to make you know groups and to start acting and when we started it it was finished so it was all about 2008 before 2008 there was 2004 and 2006 when the same happened in Georgia, but there was no reaction by international

media or, you know, generally by... I confess, I would fail a test about what happened in Georgia in 2004, 2006. I don't even really know the details. There were actually the same Russian aggression and Georgia resisted. And it was, you know, quite a little bit more than five days. So, you know, Russia was permanently trying to provoke Georgia to start. no shooting. How did you come to be in Ukraine and what's your story from the start of the war in 2014? You know, Ukrainians were the only volunteers who came to support Jordan 90s and when I first

heard about Ukrainians such a nation, you know, I was a kid and I was 14 and I saw just soldiers fighting together with me against Russia. So I did not really knew what Ukraine is, where it is, I did not know why those guys are helping us, but I remember the name Ukraine. And later, of course, I understood what those guys were doing in Georgia. And whenever it started in Ukraine, you know, the only thing that, you know, provocated something in my mind. It was when I heard Ukrainians, I remember the guys who were fighting with me against Russia. You know, then I got deeper into the history and what is going on.

Ukraine and I publicly supported Ukraine on the World Cup of Mixed Martial Art Championship. I was a president of National Federation of Georgia and mixed martial arts and we had a team on World Cup in Azerbaijan. And during the championship, after the championship, we got three bronze medals. I asked my athletes to go to the stage and the Russian TV was taking it. And to say that we support Ukraine, we support the will of Ukrainian people to be free and to be independent from Russia. So it was a scandal. They tried to, you know, get rid of Georgia national team from the World Federation. But we stayed there.

This was 2014 or what? It was 2013. There was a Maidan already in Ukraine. And, you know, there were those movements happening. And we supported Ukraine. our guys even wanted to come and support Ukrainians on Maidan, but they were refused by that time by Yanukovych government. They could not enter the country.

And me too, of course, I did not even try because I was public figure and they would not let me in. So right after the full school, right after the Maidam finished and, you know, annexation starting at all. It was April 14. in 10 days after Georgian Legion came to Ukraine and started to help Ukrainian armed forces in trainings

and, you know, taking part in some operations. Just to digress briefly on this question of mixed martial arts, you found time to become a mixed martial artist amidst, I guess it goes together with all the fighting and all the war. What did you study when you were younger? It was mostly wrestling and then I switched to mixed martial arts because actually wrestling in Georgia it's like baseball in United States. We have more than 40 kinds of wrestling in Georgia and every village has a day of wrestling

and they are getting out and they have a lot of different styles. So it's very common for Georgia. That's why a lot of Georgian mixed martial. Artists are now in UFC and two of them are world champions. So little by little I think that Georgians will become a majority on UFC because we have a lot of new talents. Even guys from villages, you know, coming to Tbilisi and started training mixed martial arts, it's very easy for them because when they are early childhood, they are taught wrestling and Georgian mixed martial arts. It's very close actually to generally mixed martial arts.

And, you know, it was very interesting for me. I was training myself from where early childhood. Then I switched to the mixed martial arts. And I had some local championships in Georgia because it was not very much spread during my, let's say, yes. And it was not very much popular. But we had the Federation later. I became the president of the federation, and we had pancreation federation.

Then I made a mixed martial arts national federation. We started developing this sport in Georgia, and I was one of the first guys who started developing it. And some of the guys who are in different leagues now were training in our GIFRG of National Federation. So after coming of pro-Russian government, of course I was, let's say, changed to more good candidate for the more loyal candidate to the government. What year is that? It's 2012. No, net 12. 13 were participating. You're 14. 14. 14. This is not what I plan to ask you about, but since we're on the subject, transitioning from wrestling, which is, you know, fairly rule-bound and discrete in terms of what you're what you can do and what you're allowed to do.

How do you transition to mixed martial arts and what is the training, how do you build a training program for mixed martial arts? You know, there is except wrestling, we call it wrestling generally. In Georgia it's called Hridaulet's mixed martial arts of Georgia. You use punching, you use wrestling and it's all combination. So it's already mixed martial arts even as a restaurant. It's actually already, but it's a little bit different from, you know, the mixed martial arts we see every day. Okay.

So it's in Georgia National, you know, clothes and there are some, you know, other technique. That's why our wrestlers, for example, judo team is very popular because it's very close to judo. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it got to got it. All right.

Back to war. 2014, first Russian invasion of Ukraine. well first modern Russian invasion of Ukraine where were you how did you become involved in 2014 I came

and brought about 10 hour officers from Georgia those were my friends unfortunately most of them are dead now and this was the first team let's say a squad of a Georgian Legion who came to support

Ukraine so that's where and how Georgia John Lidu started taking its shape and that's when we began supporting Ukraine physically. So little by little it started growing up. So before the full-scale invasion, we already had a stuff of more than 200 men. And it was a lot because there were no other, much other nationals in generally in Ukraine supporting Ukraine. So we were quite a large group. and very well known and with a good reputation because we trained a lot of Ukrainian brigades, battalions, volunteer battalions, militia battalions, but they were called militia battalions. And, you know, we're very well known in Ukraine.

And that's where the first steps when we started supporting. We took part in some military operations in the east, you know, in the, in the, in the, the very beginning of 2014. We fought for Lugansk Airport, for Donetsk airport, and in other hot places, the Balcevo and so on. So we took part in most of famous operations in the Russo-Ukrainian war. And then what was the, what level of participation did you have and how did the Legion come together, if at all, between 2014 and 2022, were you involved it all in the defense? Yeah, we were involved at Lugansk region mostly. We were as a whole company serving in one battalion, but as a volunteers.

In 2016, we already got a contract with armed forces. It was the first ratification of the law about foreigners. getting involved and getting contracts from the armed of Ukraine. So the law was adopted in 2016. And we were the first foreigners to sign the contract with the armed forces. So we signed the contract as a group of foreigners with the Ukrainian army. And we were part of 25th battalion. So we were bringing more guys.

and we were, you know, mobilizing more Georgians, making them aware that Ukraine is the most important point where Georgians can fight now. So, till 20, 22 were quite a large group, very well known everywhere in Ukraine, and doing mostly special operations, reconnaissance. special operations and so on. So when the full-scale war started, Georgian Legion was first to meet Russian helicopters in Houston Airport. Really? Were you there personally? Yeah. Let's talk about that. Tell me about that day. It was very chaotic day. We could not do actually much because we were not, we were disorganized. How did you, why did you hear that something was happening? How did you get the word?

Let's say we were part of one of the structures that I will not name military structures. And they gave us weapon in the four morning, and told us to go to the Hostomel. There were about six more guys in Hostomel Airport by that time. Very young, 18 years old. Six, as in six? That's all. That's it.

And how many did you bring with you? As far as I remember, there were 70 guys. as far as I remember. I can check with guys, but we didn't really count how many were there. As far as I remember, there were about some Georgians. And we were unfortunate with the main force there. We did one magazine and pockets full of bullets. So this is just for anyone who doesn't recognize the name,

Hostomel, I'll just say this is the assault on the airfield outside of Kiev on the first day of the invasion in 2022. So when you arrive, are the Russian helo is already there, or do you get there before the Russians get there? No, we got a half an hour before Russians, actually, as far as I remember, because one of the guys there was also Georgian. You know, who met us on the airport. I said one of the four, sorry, say. Yeah, one of the things, and we were surprised. So we talked in Georgian.

He said, guys, we were on regular civilian cars. So he told us not to put cars close to each other. Because when we just entered the airport territory, we just put it all together on a parking. He said, guys, don't do that. We still going to have, you know, rockets or missiles or, you know, nobody knows what happens. Just, you know, put your cars in different places. We were surprised to hear that. We asked if they had ammunition because except of one magazine and bullets in pockets, you know, it was not even enough.

You know what it is. one magazine just to know one second not enough for what you were about to do they sent a guy to search for our caliber 762 in their warehouse and that was a moment when we saw helicopters about us and the first what i thought it was that probably there are some trainings that ukrainians are doing and we're just participating in those trains you thought it was all all an exercise Yes, yeah. They were flying 10 meters above, you know, our heads. We have some videos.

And, you know, when they started shooting not airport, but those small four-floor new buildings around the airport, the civil buildings, they started bombing them first of all. Then we now understood that it's not. Ukraine, it's not training, and we were not actually told much, though we were asking to be given weapon at least a day before, not two hours before that. After some time we left, then I had to return back then, because one of our cars full of the documents, a civilian car that was with us, and we put all our stuff and know,

all the documents all together and it was shot on the way by helicopter then we understood that all the documents are there I returned back there and now to get the documents but it was already taken by Russians we killed several Russians with our regular civilian cars with my BMW we just you know went through their light let's Let's step back. I want to take our time with this. So you see the Helos, the Russian Helos, they're shooting at buildings. Are you and your soldiers engaging the Russian helicopters with your rivals? There was no point shooting K-A-52 with AK-762 from, you know, 10 meters. It's no sense because they are, they have quite a good protection.

on the bottom so we were shooting the helicopters from which paratroopers were they were dropping right when the helicopter was turning to the side where our guides were placed they started shooting just inside the helicopter that was the only chance to get them so we did our maximum let's say We ran out of ammunition. So I cannot tell everything. Of course. It might be. So we did not get enough ammunition.

We had to move out to get the ammunition ourselves. Sure. And we had to search it through all our friends. We went to a nearby city where our guys were placed, Jitomir, to get the ammunition. And when were you hitting Russians with your cars? Yeah, it was just on the second when I returned there to get, you know, the car. Yeah.

But they got all the paperwork. And in three days, they all had it published in Russian media that they killed all the Georgians. And they have their documents. But the attack on the airport was repulsed. Was what? Hostomel, the attack on Hustamil failed, famously. Yeah. Were you, so did you, did you, did you,

you witness the repulsion of the attack or did that happen after you leave? In Russia, they have not moved right immediately when it started. I see. They started massively getting killed. Of course, our guys worked also, but with 762 you cannot do much. We did our maximum, let's say. They were mostly bombed with artillery. I see.

National Guard right after they told us to move. Got it. Okay. So the ghost of, you know, Russian paratroopers were killed by, artillery. Understood. And then did you continue, did your unit continue to fight in the defensive Kiev in those really? Yeah, of course. Some of the guys moved it to because we needed to make our logistics to collect all the guys who were coming from the western side of the border. And we made the logistical hub in Lviv. Some guys who were already on the east direction.

they stayed there. The guys who were with me and who was on hostel direction, most of them went to Lviv to get all the paperwork because they were not official in the enforcement. So we had to accept they knew a huge amount of, you know, Georgians coming from the Lviv direction. And about 10 days a little bit more, we stayed in Lviv. Most of the guys stayed in Kiev and Keev and Keev Region to a fight.

And some were accepting new guys. And we did quite a big team now the first two weeks of the war. Where are the major engagements or regions that your Legion has fought since then? What has been your sort of movements? In Kiev region, I mean, it's... Beginning in Kiev, but up until now, it's been a... beginning from the Harki region, Kupiansk,

Lugansk region, Donetsk region, and Herzlons, so Zaporisia, is one of the key points now for our guys. And we are present on the most of the front line, actually. How many guys have you lost over the course of the last four years? Totally, there are, let's say, Georgians are killed.

The last one died two deck. three days ago. It's 113 guys. And still it's for Georgia, it's a huge amount. Yeah. And now they say there are a lot of Colombians also. In Ukraine now, I didn't know about amount. They say they are about 1,000 or more.

And we have quite big amount of them killed also. Yeah. But I'm not sure, no, it's, as they say. Nobody will tell you exact numbers. I know exact numbers of Georgians, Azerbaijans, and some other guys who were close to and who we know. So sitting here, we're talking at the end of February, 2026. A number of different areas in the battlefield are very active.

One of those active areas is around Pokrovsk. Yes. Tell me about the fighting there, about what's happening. and also talk about, you know, you've been fighting Russians since you were 14 years old. You fought in 2014. How has the battlefield changed? What's different about it now versus when you were starting? Battlefield change is actually daily because we have new technologies working on a front line.

New drones, new ground drones and, you know, others. Our guys are also taking part in development off for those techniques. And, for example, first drone shooting RPG 7 was made by Jordan Legion. And I recently, yesterday, I saw a documentary where they... Oh, I got to see a demo of this. So this is a RPG drone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We just put an RPG drone and own a huge drone that our guys constructed.

And it was getting tablets, you know. So we worked on several ground drones that were dropping... anti-tank mines. So the first one was made by this guy after my father, his name was Zach Roe. So he constructed the first drone that was dropping anti-tank mines. And then Ukrainians modernized it and today, you know, some companies always writes about it, but the beginning was this guy. Okay. So we're developing together with this war and this war develops technologically mostly. And we are part of this war and our guys are developing. We're getting new technologies.

We're working on it and we're trying them on a field. So, yes, battlefield changed, but technologically. And what's going on in Pukovskam? Why does it matter? It's a logistic hub that Russians badly want to get. It's also a political will of Putin to publicly say that we already got Pukrovsk. It's ours. And that's why they're doing their best, but they could not do much since eight months or more.

Okay. So it's very difficult to move there. So city area is quite difficult to fight. Mostly, it's a fight for new drones, FPV drones. And I don't really think that Russians will be able to move on this area even a little bit. You know, a huge amount of drone squads, even Georgian Legion drone squads are working there. How did they fight the Russians? You know, they started also adopting new technologies. And of course, China is helping them.

And they're developing also. They are barbarians, but they are developing and they understood how this war moves. This war works. from the very beginning it was quite difficult for them to adapt and understand how Ukrainian war works

but at last they started also developing and I would say they have a lot of drones in the sky now well explain how is it then that the Russians have an economy that's 10 times the size of Ukraine they have many more soldiers they can bring to bear They take enormous losses, but they have bodies to backfill those losses with.

And yet the battlefield, the battle lines have not moved very quickly for years now. You know, since I can tell you the exact statistics, in 2025, till the end of 25, they occupied 1% of Ukrainian territory. The whole Russian war machine occupied 1% of Ukrainian territory. With this, you know, movement, it will take for them several... and our ages and hundreds of years to occupy Ukraine. It's about motivation. It's about Ukrainian soldiers behind whom there are families,

there are wives, there are kids, and those guys don't want to give up their independence. And Russia is using a lot of methods to fight Ukrainians. Russia is using Litsa, propanana machine. They were using propaganda machine against us. They were using propaganda against Georgian religion from 2014. There was a part of the movie by one of PR managers of Trump, unfortunately.

It was very funny for me to discover that we are bad guys together with Biden. We came here just as the mercenaries to support some Ukrainians. I can send you the link to the movie. So, and the Russians, and the guy worked for Michael Caputo, if you know, the guy. So he was working for 8 years for Gasprom Media. And he made this documentary about Georgian, let's say. And it's not the first one. There are several documentaries made by Russians, how Georgians came,

during Maidan and killed police units, killed civilians to start the war in Ukraine. That's how Ivan Yanukodj talks about it. And Prime Minister Azaru directly blames me that I started doing that. For me, it was really funny, but, you know, Russian propaganda Edly wants to get us. They had launched recently, I can say, They launched a campaign against Georgia Legion on Twitter, only on Twitter, by, you know, Russian

activists on social media, telling that those guys are mercenary, those guys are stealing donations, or those guys are not there for idea. They're there to, you know, rob Ukrainians to steal their money and, you know, to get back to Georgia. So this campaign continues for quite a long time. you know, they could do nothing with it, except, you know, some people who were communicating or with us just, you know, didn't believe it, but didn't want it to be in the middle of, you know, any scandal. And we had good communication with American politicians. So they tried to isolate us

and to keep us away from American politicians who, with whom we had, with whom we had. and have had good relations. And I can say exactly that Russian disinformation campaign and disinformation machine works better than anywhere else. So they're very good at it, they're best at it, and they did quite a job fighting Georgian Union with disinformation. What should Americans know about Russia and fighting Russians, that they may not know.

Okay, let me get back to what I'm talking about. The most dangerous for American society is Russian disinformation. It's how they spread lies, is how they manipulate society, and, you know, Russian lies. That's their main weapon, not army. as we already proved to the world society Russian army is not as dangerous as everybody thought about it but Russian propaganda is twice more dangerous than we ever thought about it

that's what you know generally Western society should know about it and that's the most dangerous that Russia ever launched you know, propaganda in United States, propaganda in other countries. Allies of Russia, you know, that I'm not sure if you know, but even Prime Minister of Slovakia accused me in a coup, starting a coup in Slovakia. It's a pro-Russian prime minister who, without any proof, without anything, you know, on his hands, starting talking, that you know Georgian legion commander together with Slovakian opposition wants to make a

coping squad. So that's, you know, where are the dangers. That's how Russian disinformation machine works and that's how they try to inclinate the ideas they want to spread. What do you think is going to happen here? We're going to definitely we're going to win this war. It will take, unfortunately, many lives. It might take our lives also, but I'm 100% sure that we cannot lose it. For Georgians, I can say that we cannot lose Georgia, because if Ukraine loses this war,

Georgia will be deleted from the Georgia soil. So that's what. you know, we think that's why we are here and that's why Georgians have motivation to fight. Lamukkah Malarfili, commander of the Georgian Legion, thank you so much for making the time to talk to us here on School of War.

Thank you very much for inviting and glad to meet you. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust.

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