Science Friday - The Future Of Birds In North America, 190th Birthday For Tortoise. December 9, 2022, Part 1

Episode Date: December 9, 2022

Wish A Happy 190th Birthday To Jonathan The Tortoise A birthday should always be celebrated. For Jonathan the tortoise, who turned 190 this week, that celebration involved a salad cake and a three-day party. Jonathan is the oldest known living animal, hatched in 1832. Jonathan, who calls the island of St. Helena home, may be blind and unable to smell, but he maintains a good quality of life and even continues to mate with his companions. Jonathan’s ripe old age surpasses the typical tortoise life expectancy of 150 years. In other “old” news, scientists have found fragments of DNA one million years older than the previous record: making these samples two million years old. The fragments were found in Ice Age sediment in Northern Greenland, and are from a time where the climate was much warmer than it is now. Vox staff writer Umair Irfan joins Ira to talk about these and other science stories of the week, including an end to the monoclonal antibodies we have for COVID and the FDA’s first approval of fecal transplant therapy.   The Joy And Sadness Of Bird Counting The state of the birds is not looking good. That’s the conclusion from a new report that looks at decades of community-collected population data from surveys like the annual Christmas Bird Count and the Breeding Bird Survey. Species that inhabit grasslands seem to fare the worst, with their populations down over 30 percent in the last 50 years. Meanwhile, dozens of newly identified “tipping point” species have lost 50 percent of their populations in the same time, and are poised to lose the same proportion in the coming half century. Dr. Amanda Rodewald of Cornell University’s Lab of Ornithology helps unpack the report’s key findings, including the good news: Decades of cooperative efforts to protect waterfowl have paid off in thriving duck populations. Rodewald explains what this can tell us about reversing declines in other habitats. Plus, birder and science writer Ryan Mandelbaum joins Ira and listeners to talk about the joys of winter birding, the upcoming Christmas Bird Count, and the feathery sightings that brighten our lives.   Transcripts for each segment will be available the week after the show airs on sciencefriday.com. Subscribe to this podcast. Plus, to stay updated on all things science, sign up for Science Friday's newsletters.

This is Science Friday. I'm Ira Flato. This hour will be for the birds. Yes, as we look forward to the Christmas bird count and take your calls and tweets, give us a call. 844-724-8255, 844 SciTalk, or you can find us on Twitter at SciFri. Tell us what birds you're seeing at your favorite backyard sites or your local parks. But first, some news from the world's biggest island. Scientists in Greenland have made a big discovery, the oldest DNA-Fri. fragments ever found and they were trapped in permafrost. These fragments contain samples from various plants and animal life, some long extinct. And it's from a time when Greenland was pretty balmy, a big departure from the icy country we know today. This DNA is a big deal, a full one million years older than the previous record. So why are scientists so excited about this find? Joining me to talk about this and other science news of the week is someone who knows, Umair Irfan, science writer at Vox, based in Washington. Welcome to Science Friday. Welcome back.

Thanks for having me back, Ira. Nice to have you. Okay, Omer, just how old are we talking about for this oldest DNA? Well, we're talking two million years old, and as you noted, this is almost twice as old as our previous record for genetic fossils that we found. And this was exciting, as you noted, for a couple reasons. One, it's sort of a validation of this technique, rather than, you know, looking at a specific like fossil or some piece of resin or something like that, what they did was they actually collected

a general sample from the sediment in the permafrost. And so this is sort of a broad spectrum genetic time capsule that they were able to use. And from there, they were able to decode a lot of fragments of different organisms that were around at the time. You know, DNA is actually a fairly fragile molecule. You know, your body has to use a lot of different mechanisms and enzymes to keep it up to date.

So it breaks down very quickly. And so they were surprised. to find anything usable at all. And then from there, they were able to reconstruct basically a snapshot of what Greenland was like two million years ago. Well, tell us. Tell us what did they reconstruct. What they found was that there were a lot of plants and animals there living in Greenland

that aren't there now. That basically was a lot more lush, a lot more forest, and also all these other kinds of land animals, including one of the most surprising things was they found evidence of mastodons. And previously, scientists didn't even know that mastodons could live that far north. And so it was a kind of a really surprising thing to just see how diverse and robust this ecosystem was. And as you noted, a complete contrast to where it was today. And so it shows that Greenland actually underwent a very stark change from the kind of ecosystem it was in two million years ago to where it is now.

Could this tell us anything about DNA evolution? Yeah, absolutely. It shows kind of how organisms adapt over time. You know, because we were talking about a very different environmental landscape, we can see these are the kinds of organisms that thrived under these circumstances. And we also have sort of, we can compare it to how we've seen the geology and the climatology of the region change over time as well. And so we have sort of this genetic snapshot as well as this geological snapshots that we can compare and see how life evolved or failed to evolve or adapt to some of the changes in the environment. And so we've seen rapid climate changes in the past before.

And that could potentially give us some insight as to what we can expect into the future. That's really interesting. Speaking of old things, the world's oldest animal, I understand, just celebrated his 190th birthday. I wonder if there was cake. I'm talking about a tortoise named Jonathan. Tell us about that, please. Yes, Jonathan, the 440-pound tortoise. He lives in an island in the South Atlantic called St. Helena.

And he was born as far as we can tell, or as scientists have just kind of established December 4th, 1832. and so that would be around the time when Abraham Lincoln was making his first run for public office. And so he's been around for a lot. In fact, he's actually originally from the Seychelles and he was brought to St. Helena as a gift for the governor of the island. And he was already 50 years old at that point. And so he's been through a lot. Well, America, you tell us how Jonathan celebrated his birthday? Well, he celebrated with a three-day party.

He ate a cake made with salad, from tomatoes and banana, some of his favorite food. And he was joined by his companions, David, Emma, and Fred, who are also tortoises that he has also been known to occasionally mate with. So he must be a lot older than the other tortoises then. Yeah, he is. You know, as far as we know, the oldest living land animal, there might be older creatures that live in the sea,

but scientists are, of course, very interested in longevity in some of the secrets that he may offer. I mean, age has sort of caught up with him. He can't see anymore. He can't smell. But his keeper say that he can hear and that he likes people being around. That's really cool. Happy birthday, Jonathan, from all of us at Science Friday. Let's move on to our next story, a little more serious. It's world leaders are in Montreal now talking about saving biodiversity. This meeting has been going on. Now it's what? It's supposed to last two weeks. What are they talking about? Right. This meeting just kicked off this week. And if it sounds familiar, it's kind of modeled on the

same climate meeting that we just saw recently wrap in Egypt. But this one is focused on biodiversity. It's part of a group called the Convention on Biological Diversity. Just about every country in the world is party to it, except notably the Vatican and the U.S. The U.S. is not officially a party to the accord, but they are sending a delegation to Montreal. And one of the key things on the agenda is actually coming up with a major global treaty that will set definite benchmarks for preserving life and restoring ecosystems around the world. So there are goals then that they have set? That's the tricky thing.

They want to set about two dozen different benchmarks, and once those are set, they want to be able to hold countries accountable for them. So things like preserving forests, wetlands, and coastal areas and preventing them from being exploited, but also restoring them as well after they've been degraded, mined, or used for farming and then neglected. And, you know, this is going to require a fair amount of investment. And that is also going to be another key thing that, you know, many of the most pristine parts of nature in the world right now are in developing countries, and they want to be compensated

from other wealthier countries to help preserve these ecosystems and these resources. But we didn't get much participation from world leaders. Trudeau was the only one there, right? Yeah, that's right. It's a much lower key activists have been pushing for world leaders to attend like they did at the big climate meeting as well, but there's a lot else going on. And so the World Cup is going on right now. A lot of people's attentions are focused elsewhere. But activists and a lot of scientists say that this is just as important as like the climate treaty because, you know, life on Earth is how we survive. We need plants. We need animals to keep life as we know it and our standards of living up.

And so this is still something that is very high stakes. And in a couple of weeks, we'll know whether or not they came up with an agreement. Okay, Irmaire, we'll check in in about two weeks. Let's shift gears a whole lot and talk about something some people might think is gross. But it's actually really cool. And we've talked about it on Science Friday a lot. Fecal transplants, the FDA, just to prove the first fecal transplant therapy. Let's start with the basics.

What is fecal transplant therapy? It's pretty much what it sounds like. It's basically where you take feces, poop from a donor that's otherwise healthy, and you isolate the bacteria that we think is healthy, and then you administer it to somebody who may be struggling with some sort of illness. In this case, what we're talking about is a thing. therapy called Rebioda. It's developed by a Swiss company called Faring Pharmaceuticals, and it's used to treat Clostridium difficile or C-Dif, which is a super bug. It causes life-threatening

diarrhea, and most concerningly, tends to affect health care settings. So people who are already hospitalized, who have already actually taking antibiotics tend to be vulnerable to this infection. And it kills about 30,000 people per year. And, you know, in recent years, scientists have realized that in addition to tools like antibiotics, it turns out the microbiome, which is the suite of microorganisms that live inside us and on us play a really important role in protecting us. And it turns out that C. Deficile takes advantage of people whose microbiomes are depleted. And the thinking here is, if you can restore it, the good bugs can get rid of the bad bugs. And how do you get the therapy here? How is it transferred

to you? Oh, okay. We're going to get into some more goofy details here. So, yes, this is actually administered as an enema. So you use the backdoor entrance into the digestive system. and hopefully it's usually a one-and-done-type deal. And so once the good bacteria take root, that'll help drive out the infection, and it can prevent the antibiotic-resistant bacteria from taking root. But there are also some other companies that are working on orally administered versions of this. Encapsulated in a pill so you don't have to actually taste it. But that will hopefully be a more simple and straightforward way to administer the same therapy.

And the therapy is available? When are some people already getting this? Actually, yes. Doctors have actually been using this for a while. So the FDA approval here is a sort of a regulatory signal. What it means is that more doctors and hospitals will be willing to prescribe it. And crucially, it means that more insurance companies will be willing to pay for it. And that means more people will have access to this.

Yeah. Let's switch gears to a story about another type of therapy. I'm talking about monoclonal antibodies. They seem to be kaput for COVID. Why is that? Yeah. Unfortunately, the FDA revoked its authorization for this monoclonal antibody called Beb Telovab.

I'm sorry, I'm not saying that correctly. But basically, it's a version of a protein that your immune system uses to target COVID-19. But the problem is COVID-19 continues to change. And we've seen with the recent variants and the sub-variants that it keeps evolving to evade our immunity. And with highly targeted therapies like monoclonal antibodies, those are especially vulnerable. So we're sort of on this treadmill where the virus evolves. we come up with a new therapy and then the virus evolves again.

Fortunately, we have antiviral drugs that we're using to treat COVID-19. Those seem to still be holding up. The monoclonals are sort of a second line of defense for people for whom don't get the antivirals in time or who still end up in the hospital or have weakened immune systems. But, you know, we have this multi-layered strategy with COVID and losing any layer can be troubling, especially as we're heading into another winter. And we're also having a rise in other infections like RSV and influenza. All right. Quickly, let's finish things off with one last story about bad science and a nonprofit that wants to fight against it.

Yeah, this group is called Clearer Thinking, and my colleague Seagull Samuel recently interviewed the founder, Spencer Greenberg. And he launched this thing called the Transparent Replications Project. You know, we've heard a lot of chatter about the replication crisis in science, particularly in social science and in psychology. Classic studies have failed to be reproduced. And so what this group wants to do is to reproduce psychological. studies that are published in prestigious journals like science and nature. And the idea is, one, to validate the results to see that, you know, if these things actually hold up. But the other thing is they want to actually change the incentives for scientists. You know, getting your paper published in a

big name journal, it's a really important feather in your cap. It's a really good star on your resume. But why knowing that your study is going to be checked and double checked might give scientists some pause about publishing the first positive result and force them to go back and actually validate and it themselves first, and that way over time we'll have better results getting published overall. Well, Omer, always great stuff. Thank you for joining us today. My pleasure. Thanks for having me back. Humair Ifan, it's science writer at Vox based in Washington. We're going to take a break, and when we come back, some bad news about declining bird populations,

plus your chance to celebrate your favorite birds. Stay with us. This is Science Friday from WNYC Studios. Hi, Ira here. As a listener, I don't have to teach. tell you that the need for Science Friday is stronger than ever. Science helps us navigate the world and make informed choices about our health, our environment, and our priorities. Science Friday is critical to public dialogue about science, and your donations are crucial to our success. Now is the time to head over to ScienceFriday.com slash support and make a gift. Our 2023 programming depends on the generosity of our fans and our listeners. And remember, folks, any amount makes a difference.

But the lasting gifts are the ones we can count on every year. So if it's in your power, consider making a sustaining donation. Once again, that link is ScienceFriday.com slash support. And thanks. It's the holiday season, and it's a big deal here at Science Friday, because that means it's the annual Christmas bird count. It's a lot. It's a holiday season. It's a big deal. starting soon on Monday, to be precise, when legions of pro and amateur birders spread out to take a tally of what avians are hanging out in the woods, the fields, the beaches, and so on. That data helps fuel research into how well the birds are doing. And unfortunately, news has not been too good in recent years.

This year's State of the Birds Report looked at decades of data from surveys like the Christmas bird count, and in every group of birds except one, species. are in decline. Worse off are the grassland and shorebird species where more than 30% of their populations have been lost in the last half century. For more insight from the state of birds, I talked with Dr. Amanda Rowald. She's senior director of the Cornell University's lab of ornithology for avian population studies. She said the new report was an alarming update to already worrisome news. We already knew that there were some problems. There was a a couple of years ago published in science, what we call our 3 billion bird paper,

showing that we've lost 3 billion birds since 1970s, over 1 in 4 breeding bird species. And so this state of the birds report really underscores that. And what is really alarming as some of the takeaways are that these declines are spanning just about all habitats and all groups of birds. and they include many species that we've regarded as common, you know, for most of our lives. Now, the declines were highest for grassland and shore species, as I mentioned before, why are so many bird species in these regions in such trouble? What is threatening them?

Yeah, well, there are a variety of different factors when you look at any particular species. But overall, with grassland birds, you know, there we've, of course, we've, We've lost native prairies. I mean, that has been, you know, certainly impacted a lot of grassland birds over the last century. But really, what's causing these declines over the last 50 years or so is the intensification of agricultural practices. So when you look at shifts in the way we farm, we have bigger farms, we removed hedgerows, and we don't take land out of rotation. We're applying more pesticides and herbicides to the land. So those are some of the factors on the breeding grounds that's affecting them.

And for other species, you know, it's also what's happening on the migratory, you know, during the migratory pathway or on the non-breeding grounds. Many of these species are wintering in areas that could be as far away as southern South America. In terms of shorebirds, you know, these are really, long-distance migratory species. So they're breeding in Arctic areas that are being impacted enormously because of climate change and other pressures on the habitat there. They're facing many threats as they migrate down to their wintering areas in South America. So if we think about where shorebirds are often stopping over, it's in the coastal areas that we like to build

developments in, right? We like to use those two. Yeah, absolutely. And again, really, a lot of the species we're finding are being hit kind of at various stages of what we call their full annual cycle, right, from when

they're breeding to when they're migrating to when they're spending the winter elsewhere. On the list includes some birding favorites like evening gross beaks, their Rufus Hummingbird, Bobo Links, it calls. them in tipping points? What was the goal of highlighting these species and how much trouble are they

really in? Yeah, that is a big take-home message of this report. So tipping point species are species that have lost half or more of their population in the last 50 years, and they're on track to lose 50% more in the next 50 years if nothing changes. So the point of really calling these species out is to draw attention to the urgent need to act. Right. We, of course, we know we have, you know, enormously important laws like the Endangered Species Act that can come in and help us, you know, at that sort of most critical level, the last gas species have. Right. But that is a pretty blunt instrument, right? If we, we're going to do better in terms of our ability to recover birds, in terms of the cost-effectiveness,

in terms of minimizing how conservation actions might disrupt other human activities. All of that is going to be so much better if we are proactive, right? If we take steps before species require listing under Endangered Species Act. So that's really the point of calling these species out. And you know, you're absolutely right. Some of the species that we're seeing are ones that we know well. You mentioned Rufus Hummingbird. Yeah, that's a common species in the Pacific Northwest.

Yeah, I couldn't believe when I heard that. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, it's lost two-thirds, two-thirds of its population. Or, like, chimney swift. Many people might be familiar with those in cities. They hear they're chattering, you know, at dusk as they're leaving, you know, the old chimneys or old building structures. And, yeah, Bobberlink.

You're right. Like that's, I mean, just a common species in many grassland areas on hay fields. And I think, too, what's really striking is that many of the species we see on this tipping point list, these are species that have actually adjusted pretty well to human activities. So this is not a group of the most sensitive and needing the most pristine areas. These are species that have persisted in the same landscapes that we're using all the time, but now we're seeing problems, right? And that signals problems about our environment, right? Because birds are canaries in the coal mine. And if an environment isn't, you know, we share the same environments with these birds.

So I think if we, you know, really consider the fact if they're not healthy enough to sustain bird populations, well, I mean, they're unlikely to be healthy for us either. You know, I mentioned that there was an exception to the bad news. And I want to talk about something. Good, that's happening. And I'm talking here about the ducks and the other waterfowl out there that are living their best lives, their populations are increasing. I mean, they are coastal birds, right? Why are they doing well? Yeah, and some of them are coastal and some of them also are inland, you know, in like the prairie pothole region. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I think when you look at waterfowl in particular, you know, this just speaks volumes about how effective we can be with conservation when we have the will to act. And so the positive changes in these waterfowl populations, that's because, you know, duck hunters, you know, they have been supporting conservation of these species through, you know, federal excise taxes, you know, that fund on the ground conservation. So they've restored wetland areas, you know, places where these birds are breeding and, you know, producing more young, the places they stop over on migration. So again, it really speaks to the impact, how we have the ability to turn things around if we want to. And so that's a silver lining.

With geese, that's both, you know, some of these, the ability to manage populations, but also geese have developed an extraordinary ability to exploit a lot of waste grain in the winter. and also to exploit urban and suburban areas. So there with the geese, there's a little bit on both sides of the coin there, right? They're doing so well. They could be a problem for some. You're supporting a bill as before Congress, and I guess an appropriately called lame duck section that would fund more localized investments of money in wildlife conservation. Why does that seem like an important policy move?

And what is your aim here? Yeah, this is the Recovering America's Wildlife Act. And so what this will do is it will provide $1.4 billion in funding that go to states, territories, and tribal nations to fund conservation for species that they have identified are in need. And so if we think about, too, relative to what states and, you know, tribal wildlife grants programs currently receive, it's about $65 million. So this more than doubles the amount of money that they'll be getting. You know, I'd like to remind myself and others even that this isn't just even about birds. It isn't just about wildlife. You know, you don't have to be focused on conservation specifically.

order to benefit from this bill, because when we invest in habitat conservation, we're actually taking a lot of steps, the same steps that we need to do to protect human health and well-being. Dr. Amanda Rodwell, Director of the Center for Avian Population Studies at the famous Cornell University's lab of Ornithology, thank you for taking time to be with us today. Oh, thank you so much, Ira. As I said earlier, the Christmas bird count starts next week and winter birding season. season is here now, even for folks who just want to enjoy watching the fowl and their feeders from the warmth of the kitchen. So did you see something stupend this year? And are you still

hunting an elusive warbler? Or have you finally seen your favorite Finch who's in your backyard? Is anyone missing from the usual suspects this year? We want to hear from you. Give us a call 844-724-8255-8-44-Sai Talk or you can tweet us at SciFri. And we'll me here in the studio to help us take some joy in birds as Ryan Mandelbaum. Long time, friend of the show, science writer, Avid Burtor. He's as avid as they come, right, Ryan? It's been a long time. Welcome back to Science Friday. Great to be here, Ira. Thanks so much. You were listening along. We were talking about as much as a 50% decline. As a birder, can you actually see this in the field that there are fewer birds around?

You know what? It really depends on the specific species of bird. And it's kind of of like the difference between weather and climate. Year to year, you might see fluctuations of more birds and less birds. But birdwatchers span all generations. And if you talk to older bird watchers, you often do hear stories about, oh, this lake was once filled with gulls every year. And so we all know, and it's culturally, we can all tell that the decrease is happening. All right. So it's December. We've got the Christmas bird count starting next week. Why are we supposed to go out in the winter? Why is that a good time to do this counting? Right. So the Christmas bird, The bird count actually has quite a long history.

It began more than 120 years ago with, there was a tradition of hunting birds on Christmas, and so we've replaced that with counting birds. But also, these are the birds that we think of as being the hardy ones who stick around here in the United States through the winter. And then, of course, we can then have counts of where all of our birds go when they migrate south. If someone wants to join the bird count, or if they just want to start birding on their own for the first time, you've got all kinds of equipment with you, but what do you need to be, the basics, to be a birder? You know, I would say that it's just start by looking at birds.

Notice the birds in your backyard, the birds when you're walking through the park. Of course, people will say you need a pair of binoculars. You don't need a pair of binoculars. You can really notice their behaviors and things without them. But it helps to have binoculars with about an eight-time zoom. And then, as you know, I have a telescope I use to look at very far-away birds. and then I have a camera because I like sharing my sightings with people.

That's great. And what are the birds doing right now this time of the year? What do they want from life? Well, I think a lot of them just want to live through the winter so that they can go and breed another year. So right now, if you were to go out in the park, you would see birds in flocks or looking for, basically roving around, looking for food at their favorite food trees.

And then you might even see them in your backyard looking at bird feeders. They're really just trying to survive the winter. All right. We're talking with Ryan Mandelbaum about birds, and this is Science Friday from WNYC Studios. Lots of people calling in, and let's go to the phones now. Hey, let's go to Efferman Houston. Hi, welcome to Science Friday.

Hi, I'm excited to be on your show. Thank you. Go ahead. Tell us what you've seen. So it would be two weeks ago on this past Thursday. I was coming off of Highway 35 from Palaches into Bay City, Texas, which is here in the Texas Gulf Coast, and I spotted an American bald eagle perched up on a tree. This is crazy because my wife tells me, oh, that she saw one, she and her brother in their front yard years ago.

I was like, there's no American bald eagles here. In fact, there are, and she was right. I was wrong. Wasn't that exciting, right? It was. I was in my truck driving, and I'm driving, you know, 60 miles an hour, but I can, like, I constantly, you know, go back and forth and just kind of just scoping around. And it was, it was beautiful, Ira. It was truly majestic. It was amazing. Yeah, you know, I have to share with you, I saw my first one this year in upstate Connecticut, and it was just, I couldn't believe I was seeing it, too.

So I share that with you. Thanks for calling, Effron. Thank you so much, bye-bye. The Bald Eagle. It's back. It's around. You can see it? Oh, yes. And in fact, I live here in New York City in Brooklyn, and people might not know that New York can be a good place to see bald eagles. Last year, we had a bald eagle named Rover, hang around Central Park, and eating gulls all winter long. So, you know, this can be a place to see them. We have a tweet coming in from Brian who says, winter is when birders can really appreciate the variety of native sparrows and ducks that visit us from the north.

But this year, I'm most looking forward to seeing colorful winter finches like the evening, grass beak, and red beck. crossbill birds that you like, right? I sure do. Yes, so the winter finches are my favorite bird. And if you'll allow me, I'm going to dive into a little story about winter finches. Please. So what's so interesting about these birds is that most of them are spending a lot of their time up north feeding on conifer cones. And then what happens is that some of these cone crops aren't very reliable. So after, you know, some years, the cones are, the trees are going to coordinate to not produce food. And that's probably to starve out the squirrels, to make sure that squirrels aren't kind of eating up all the seeds.

And then the birds have wings, so they can then just fly south. And so a lot of birders are now eagerly waiting to see if their local pine trees or bird feeders are going to take on a hungry flock of crossbills and evening gross peaks. And every day this month of November, I stood on my roof, and just the other day, a red crossbill flew right over my house. It was the best. I'm seeing you smiling. What is so enjoyable for you about seeing all these birds?

How did you get started and why do you find it so interesting? You know, I started with because as a New Yorker, I actually never really knew that birds were so exciting. I once thought they were, you know, pigeons, rats with wings. But then I had to write a story about the great blue heron for grad school. And as part of that, I got to see a great blue heron on its nest in Staten Island. And I was just blown away. I couldn't believe how there was this huge bird just surviving here in New York City. And then my spouse moved to New York and was like, what should our hobby?

our couple's hobby bee, and we were like, we both like birds, let's become birders, and they say the rest is history. And so you can be a birder in a big city. Oh, my goodness. I would say that New York City is one of the best places to be a birder. So it's not great for the birds. The New York City is placed right along this migratory flyway, and what happens is birds migrating north and then back south get funneled into the city's parks,

Central Park, Prospect Park, places like that. and then you become much densers, so they're easier to see. So you can catch them in May and September. It's awesome. It's awesome. And we'll talk more with the awesome Ryan Mandelbaum after this break. Our number 844-724-8255-8-4-Sy-Talk. You can also tweet us at SciFri.

We'll be right back with lots more questions. Stay with us. This is Science Friday. I'm Ira Flato. We're talking about winter birding, how to do it, why to love it, what our favorite sightings are. Berder and science writer Ryan Mendelbaum is in the studio with me, and they were telling us before the break that Finches are your favorite? I just wanted to come back and say one more thing about you probably have a lot of callers

who are really interested in the Finches right now, and there's a reason for that. So this behavior that I was talking about that they'll move based on food is actually can almost be predicted. So we actually have people will survey the northern forest and see how many pine cones are on these trees. and then use that to determine whether the finches will be in the north or move south. And so there's a nonprofit called the Finch Research Network that's doing that work. And it's just really cool because then you can predict whether you have Finch is in your backyard. Oh, that is cool. Let's go to the phone.

So many people want to talk about what they have seen. Let's go to Marilyn in Seneca, Oregon. Hi, Marilyn. Hi, I'm so thrilled to be on your show. You're my secret celebrity crush. Will you tell that to my boss? Just phone that in. What have you got on your mind?

Thank you for that. Yes. So we have a property in eastern Oregon, just outside of a wide spot in the road called Seneca. And we are on 80 acres up at 5,000 feet in the Ponderosa Pine Forest. And two years ago, we spotted a pair of great gray owls that were hunting right down in the meadow, right in front of, we could sit at the dining room table and watch them. It was so amazing. and they were just, they fascinated us, and they disappeared. We didn't see them last year at all.

And then the other morning I was sitting down to breakfast, and I saw something moving in the snow. And I looked out, I'm like, how did a seal get here? What is a seal doing in the mountains? And this bird is so big. He looked, and that head is so round, and I got my binoculars, and sure enough, the great gray owls are back. That is amazing. Great gray owls are a bird that I really would love to see. So I have, my in-laws all live in Minnesota, and when I'm out there, I'm always looking for great-gray owls.

And there's just something about owls, right? Their face, there's some sort of reverence when you're with them. It's just such a cool experience. Boy, are you lucky? What a holiday present for you, right? I, you know, it's like I feel like they're kind of magical or they're like from the other side, you know, life or whatever. But they are just fascinating to watch. And the thing about the Great Grey Owls is they're literally camouflage artists.

I mean, they will fly up into a ponderosa pine tree, and if you take your eyes off of them, you will miss them. Wow. And, yeah. Thank you for calling. Yeah, thank you so much. You're welcome. Good luck seeing that. Jeff on Twitter says, I've been birding for 40-plus years.

Moving to New Mexico has been wonderful. So many resident and migratory species here and an adjacent. in states, especially Arizona, saw a roadrunner. Not wily, coyote. Still waiting for my first golden eagle. What's the difference between a golden eagle and a bald eagle? Yeah, so they're two different species, and they have different biologies. They do different things.

Bald eagles, you'll see more along bodies of water. They're fish eagles, and golden eagles will be more on the prairies. And they look different, but I will say that they're the same size approximately. So if you see a giant eagle, they do look quite. similar in juvenile bald eagles and adult golden eagles do look pretty similar, so you've got to be very discerning. I should have that problem. I wish.

Okay, let's go to the phones. Let's go to Catherine in Minneapolis. Hi, Catherine. Oh, hi. Hi there. Thank you for taking my call. You're welcome. I'm calling about city birds.

I have a small flower garden here in my townhouse, and in past summers I've had probably up to 10 hummingbirds every summer, along with a lot of bees. This past summer, zero hummingbirds and very few bees. And I don't know if it's climate change or the chemicals my neighbors are using or something. The other thing I've noticed is we have a huge increase in the wild turkey population to the point where they're walking all over people's yards and, you know, leaving their poop and everything there. So, you know, the decline of one, but the increase on the other is what we've seen up here in Minneapolis.

Thanks. You're welcome. You know, I have to share that because I have to share that. Because I have bird feeders, I have hummingbird feeders, and I saw no hummingbirds for like three months until close to the end of the season. And I, too, is wondering, where have they gone? I don't know. I mean, and I did call on this a little bit earlier that these fluctuations year to year are bound to happen. But, you know, there's definitely, if you're not seeing any hummingbirds, it's hard to say what's at work.

It could be pesticides. It could be, there could be something really to be concerned about. But I would be concerned, too, because I love hummingbirds. Yeah, yeah. We'll see. Maybe someone will be able to know that. Let's go to a tweet. Dustin on Twitter says, so many of us saw the Stellar Sea Eagle in Maine, early in January. That's the most notable bird on the continent this decade now in New Brunswick.

I too went to see the Stellar Sea Eagle. So actually, this bird showed up in inland Alaska, and then it showed up on the East Coast, this giant Siberian eagle, very low population in the thousands. And this bird looked like, you know, it showed up and people were like, oh, my goodness, what, I have to go see this bird. And so me and my friend, as soon as we saw it in Maine, we got in the car and we drove up to Portland in that area. And I saw it from about a half mile away, and it looked like a person in a bird costume. It was just amazing. And it's not where it should be.

No, no. This is a Siberian and northern Japan is where it's usually. And so the east coast of the United States is the wrong place for that bird. Wow. So what happens? They get blown off course? or is it climate change or do we not know? You know, it's for the younger birds, there's this, we call it dispersal,

and it's a big part of bird biology, right? Birds are when they're first born, you know, they have to migrate, and some of them migrate off course, and then if a bunch of them migrate off course and then can establish population there, then we have range expansion. But unfortunately, a lot of individual birds will go get lost in the meantime. The eagle, though, I don't know. But you got to see it.

I really was amazing. to my best birding experiences. That's great. Let's go to the phone. Sandra in Milton, Florida. Hi, Sandra. Hi, thank you so much. I'm a huge fan, and I'm really wgging out now that I get to talk on the phone with you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Go ahead. I live in Milton, Florida, which is like the panhandle, and we had indigo buntings probably about, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago or longer, and haven't seen them since. So I want to know what did I do to get so lucky. They're beautiful, and how do I make them come back? And also, we noticed again this year, I only had one hummingbird. And I had another friend noted,

they actually found dead hummingbird. Yes. And so in our area, anyway. So I decided I'd ask for that other conversation. Thanks for calling. That is shocking. Yeah, I mean, it's a shame. The Indigo Buntings, well, very awesome that you had so many. And they're a bird that they like weedy areas, and I would say they're the kind of bird that if you plant native plants and those plants produce seeds, then you might have some indigo bunting show up.

So definitely continue to plant native and that's a great way to do it. Don't give up. Let's go to Lorraine in Westchester, New York. Hi, Lorraine. Hello. Yay. Hey, go ahead. Hi.

I'm a wildlife rehabilitator with the Center for Wildlife Rescue Research and Conservation. Inking, thank you, Iris, so much for this segment on the Christmas bird count and the wonderment of birds. And although there are many environmental impacts that we cannot control now, what we can do is 75 to 80 percent of the injured birds we receive are from cat attacks. And outdoor cats are really decimating many of the bird population.

So it is so important to keep cats indoors and to also plant. native plants so that birds will naturally gravitate to your property. I'll put a stamp on that. You know, cats should remain inside. Outdoor cats are bad. And then also here in New York City, windows need to be treated to be bird safe. And that usually means putting stickers or making them so the birds can't see them. You agree?

Lorraine? Yes, I do. Absolutely. All right. Thank you for that. Thank you for that call. Speaking of New York City, let's go to Elizabeth in Manhattan. Hi, Elizabeth.

Hi. Hi there. Go ahead. I am a big fan. I just was calling to say following up, I love finches and I try to attract them, so I have mostly house finches. My golden finches have definitely fallen off, I would say, in the last three years. I see a lot less. I was very lucky to have a lot of kinglets coming in and out of the yard, which I loved in the fall. And they've gone away in the last three to four. Right now I do have nut hatches and I have tufted titmouse who are on the feeder and grabbing the black oil sunflower seeds. I always have a lot of morning doves, a lot of chickadees and sparrows. And I have had woodpeckers, but they do seem to have gone away, which I'm not sure why. We might have lost some trees. But we have a pretty good collection in Upper Manhattan.

That's good. That's awesome. That's actually a very similar selection that I have in my backyard in Brooklyn. Tufted titmouse, especially is a bird that it kind of goes in waves. Some years we'll see a lot, and some years we won't. And this year, if you walk down the streets of Brooklyn, you will hear tough to tit mice in almost every single tree. And they are very cute. So I really like that about it. Thank you, Elizabeth. They are cute. And they're very fast. Thank you very much for having this. Bye-bye. You're welcome. Let's cycle right through to Mike in Milford, Connecticut. Hi, Mike. Hi, how you doing? Hi there. Go ahead. So I really like landfaring birds, but we are definitely looking towards the ocean and we are missing the

buffalo heads this year. Buffaloheads. Oh, they're very cute. Yeah. I, I, I, I, I, I, I haven't seen very many buffaloheads either, although in Jamaica Bay, we usually have some. That may be part of the problem we were talking about. The birds are missing. Do you usually see a lot of them, Mike? So we would see probably 15 to 20. They're gorgeous birds, but similar, like what you were saying with planting food, you know, planting certain plants to attract certain birds, we can't do that with buffalo heads because they're seafaring.

Right. So we weren't sure if anything was going on, you know, under the water that we're just not aware of. Wow. Thank you. Thanks for reporting in, Mike. Sure, thank you. Right. Let's go cross-country to Chris in Chesapeake, Virginia.

Well, not quite cross-country. A little south. Hi, Chris. Hi. Hi, there. Go ahead. I wanted to share a story a couple years ago. We had a large Bradford pear tree taken down.

but the gentleman that took the tree down did not have a stump grinder. So as the years passed, we had a pealated woodpecker that came and pretty much finished the job for us. Yeah, they make a big hole, don't they? They actually cut the tree in half for you? No, it was just the stump. A stump. But he pretty much got rid of it. Yeah, maybe put out some sewage to say thank you.

Yeah, and it's interesting because they, strike the wood so much more slowly than the smaller woodpeckers that you hear in the trees. Yeah. And they're really cool to watch. They are cool. Thanks for calling. I remember the first one I saw. I didn't know what it was.

It was a hole the size of a shoe box in a tree. Yeah. And I knew that's what it was. They're heart stopping when you see them fly across the road. I mean, they're big birds, these pilliated woodpeckers. Yeah. Ryan, I know that you're joining the crew for this year's Christmas bird count, right? That's put on by the Audubon Society every year.

Where are you going? Yeah, so I will be in Glacial Ridge National Wildlife Refuge in northwestern Minnesota, which is a grassland wildlife refuge. And it's a little different. Some years I'll do the Brooklyn Christmas bird count in which there's, we can expect to see between 100 to 130 species of bird. Far fewer in northwestern Minnesota, it's quite snowed over. But the birds I see there are some really cool ones.

In previous years, we've seen greater prairie chickens, northern shrike, rough-legged hawks, snowy owl. So what we don't have in the number of species, the sort of different stuff is really thrilling for me. And we want to reiterate, this is a citizen science project, right? You don't have to actually know a lot about birds to get involved. That's right. And a lot of these Christmas bird counts, I mean, there's a big element of camaraderie. There's often a potluck at the end of it, but really some of them just need eyes. You know, they'll pair you with the person who'll identify the birds, and then you just have to go and find the birds.

And finding the birds is often half the battle when you're going through thickets or on a grassland or anything like that. Let's see if I can get one more call in before we have to say goodbye. Let's go to Vicki in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Vicki. Hi, go ahead. Well, what I'm seeing now, which happens every winter, is golden crown sparrows, dark-eyed Oregon junkos, and black-capped chickadeies, along with the resident song sparrows, and Anna's hummingbirds, which live here all year round. What I'm not seeing at all anymore is house finches, but I stopped putting seed out, because I stop putting seed out, because we have a rat issue in the city.

We're very close to a busy street and lots of restaurants. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for calling. That's really cool because, you know, you're really observing kind of migration and action. A lot of these birds are winter birds that have decided that your area is a good place to be. So that's kind of one of the reasons I like winter birding so much. What's a final tip you can give to people who go out on the bird count?

I guess certainly dressing warmly, right? Yeah, where a lot of layers. Keep your ears open. Honestly, I often hear birds before I see them. And just go out as much as you can. Keep your eyes open and then be nice to the birds. Make sure you're doing it ethically. Don't go playing audio or trying to feed them or anything. Just experience the world for what it is. Is it easy to find a spot to go to, to know where the bird counting is happening? Yeah, sure. So I would just Google Christmas Bird Count and you'll find the websites where you can find, they'll have a map with all the local coordinators on it. And then, you know, if you don't feel like doing the Christmas Bird Count, then there's the eBird website you can use to get started, get a field guide, or do like I do and just look for the birds in your backyard. And the birds you're going to be looking for? What would you really like to add to your collection of bird sightings? In the world or in Minnesota? I'll take one of each. So like I said previously, the Great Grey Owl is a bird that I would really like to see. They're just such beautiful birds.

And then in the world, I don't know, there's a bird that makes a really weird noise in northern South America called the Capuchinger bird. It sounds like, wow. I can't top that. Thank you, Ryan. We have to make like a bird and flying. Yep, that's what we're doing. John Mendovalm, science writer, and bird are based in Brooklyn, New York. And also, thank you all great callers.

We love to hear from you. and if you're interested in the Christmas bird count, we kept talking about this. We've got more information linked on our website at Science Friday.com slash Christmas birds. One last thing. Our sharp-eared listeners pointed out that during our news roundup last week, we mispronounced the name of the Hawaiian goddess of fire, Pele, in our story about the Manilaue volcano and the unusual lava formation known as the Hare of Pele. Our apologies, and thanks so much for everyone who brought our attention to it. Here's Rasha Aireti with some of the folks who helped make this show happen.

Thanks, Aira. Our digital producers are D. Peter Schmidt and Emma Gomez. Ariel Zich is our director of audience. Sandy Roberts is our education program manager. Annie Nero is our individual giving manager. And I'm Rasha Aridi, radio producer. Thanks for listening. Thank you, Russia.

BJ Leiderman composed our theme music, and we had helped this hour from audio engineers, Lisa Gosselin, and Kevin Wolfe. And of course, if you missed any part of it, the program or you'd like to hear it again. Yes, subscribe to our podcasts or ask your smart speaker to play Science Friday. Of course, you can also contact us the classic way. I guess it is classic now. SciFri at ScienceFri.com. Have a great weekend. I'm Ira Flato.