Science Friday - The Stories Of The First Six Women Astronauts

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

If you were asked to name the early astronauts, you probably wouldn’t have much trouble; Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, John Glenn come to mind easily enough. But what if you had to name women astronauts, besides Sally Ride? It’s a question that even space nerds might have trouble answering.A new book from space reporter Loren Grush centers those women’s stories. The Six: The Untold Story of America’s First Women Astronauts goes deep into the histories, triumphs, and tragedies of Sally Ride, Judy Resnik, Rhea Saddon, Kathy Sullivan, Shannon Lucid, and Anna Fisher. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration excluded women from its astronauts in the 1960s and ‘70s. The agency changed course in 1978, when it selected these six women from a candidate pool of 8,000.Ira sits down with Loren Grush, space reporter for Bloomberg News, to talk about why NASA delayed their inclusion, the agency politics the women had to navigate, the pressure they faced from the media, and how they made their mark on the space program.To stay updated on all things science, sign up for Science Friday's newsletters. Transcripts for each segment will be available the week after the show airs on sciencefriday.com. Subscribe to this podcast. Plus, to stay updated on all things science, sign up for Science Friday's newsletters.

You know about Sally Wright, but what about the other first American women astronauts? And the fact that I didn't know much about the other five women at all made me think this is a great opportunity to educate myself and also give them a more elevated platform. The author of a new book tells us what these women accomplished. It's Wednesday, October 18th, and today is Science Friday. I'm CyFar producer Dee Petersmith. NASA didn't allow women to join its astronaut program until 1978. Why did it take the agency almost 20 years to do so? Space reporter Lauren Gresh, the author of the new book The Six, The Untold Story of America's First Women Astronauts, Talks about these women's stories, why NASA dragged its feet on admitting them, the obstacles they faced from the media, and the impact they had on the space program.

Here's Ira Flato. If you were asked to name some of the first American astronauts, you probably wouldn't have much trouble. Alan Shepard, John Glenn, come to mind pretty easily. But could you name the first women astronauts? How about besides Sally Ride, could you? It's a question that even space nerds might have trouble answering. Well, a new book from space reporter Lauren Grush centers those women's stories. The Six, the untold story of America's first women astronauts, goes deep into the histories,

triumphs and tragedies of not only Sally Ride, but Judy Resnick, Ray Asadden, Kathy Sullivan, Shannon Lucid, and Anna Fisher. NASA excluded women from its astronauts in the same. 60s and 70s. And the agency changed course, of course, in 1978 when it selected these six women from a candidate pool of 8,000. Yes. We'll be taking your call this hour. Do you have questions about the first six women, American astronauts? Do you have any memories you have from this time? Let us know. Our number is 1-800-9-8-4-724-8255.

844-8-255. And you can also message us on Facebook, threads, and Twitter. And joining me to talk more about this history is Lauren Grush herself. She's a space reporter at Bloomberg News, joining us from KUT in Austin, Texas. Welcome to Science Friday. Thanks so much for having me. Happy to be here. It is so nice to have you.

I'd like to start this interview with how you start the book. Set the scene for us, if you might. Absolutely. So the beginning of the book takes place the night before Sally Rides history making flight. But it starts not with Sally, but with Anna Fisher, who was a Cape Crusader for that flight. She was an astronaut support personnel. They called themselves the Cape Crusaders. A nice little pun referring to Cape Canaveral, where they launched from.

And at the time, she was in charge of overseeing. you know, watching the switches in the cockpit for the shuttle that Sally was going to fly on. And at the time, she was about eight months pregnant when she did that. Really? Yeah, I thought it was a beautiful scene to start the book because it was a site that the, that had never been, you know, seen before. A pregnant astronaut in the cockpit of a spacecraft overseeing the switches for the first American woman to go to space. I thought it was very poetic. That is cool.

Well, take us back to those days of yesterday here, to the, the early 60s when NASA was first building its astronaut program besides the culture at that time. Why did NASA exclude astronauts for what? For almost 20 years? Yeah. So originally when they were setting the criteria for who could be astronauts, NASA made a very important resume point that you had to have, which was jet piloting experience. And at the time, that effectively banned women from being able to be chosen as astronauts, because women were barred from flying jets for the Air Force, and that was the only way you could get jet flying experience. And so that really limited the candidate pool to men. And I do tell a story about a

famous group of women that is known as kind of the Mercury 13, not the best name for them, but it mirrors the Mercury 7, the first seven astronauts who were chosen at NASA. And they were also accomplished pilots at the time, and they trained for space. In fact, they went through the same tests, medical tests and training that the Mercury 7 had to go through in order to be selected, and they passed. And they wanted to keep training for space, but ultimately they didn't have explicit permission to use the facilities to train. And so their training was cut short. And ultimately, they lobbied Congress in order to convince lawmakers and NASA officials that allowing women to train for space was important, and that sending a woman to the

moon or women to space and onto the moon was important. But ultimately, they just weren't taken seriously at the time. You know, in the 60s, we were locked in a very heated space race with the Soviet Union. And so including women was, you know, perceived as a bit of a distraction and not really a priority. It was going to distract from achieving that ultimate goal. So how did Sally Ride break through all of this? Well, you know, between the Apollo program and when the first women were selected, you know, that the country went through very transformative periods. We had the civil rights movement, the feminism movement, and so NASA was getting questions externally about why women and people of color were not chosen for the astronaut program

at that time. And also internally, I profile a woman by the name of Ruth Bates Harris, who took a look at the state of diversity and inclusion of NASA at the time, and she came up with a pretty scathing report about how women and people of color were employed at the agency. There's a great line about, you know, NASA sent three women into space. Two of them are spiders, one of them, a monkey. And so it was getting to be something that NASA just could not ignore anymore. And so when the selection committee was put together to get new astronauts for the new space shuttle program that NASA was developing, they explicitly put bringing in people of color and women top of mind during that selection round.

So any of the finalist candidates from that 8,000 pool of applicants that you mentioned had to come down to Houston and go through medical evaluations. They had to go through a psychological evaluation and do an hour and a half long interview with the selection committee. And that was all the same for everybody. And the same goes for training. All of the women went through the same types of training. They had to stay current in NASA's fleet of T-38 jets. They had to undergo classroom work, water survival training, land survival training. They flew on the vomit comet comet, that parabolic flight that gives you brief moments of weightlessness here on Earth.

The vomit comet, yes, the vomit comet. Yeah, that is its nickname. I think you can guess why. So, yes, it was the same training for everyone. And also, Sally went through the same training that the other five women did. All six of the women, you know, had the same expectations. placed upon them. They each had different jobs, different technical assignments when they were in the agency. But it was, yes, it was the same for the men and the women. Yeah. Well, we'll talk about Judy Resnick in a bit, but can you tell us about some of the other women in this class and how they got to NASA? Sure. So the thing I love about the six women is that they all have very unique and different backgrounds. So Sally Ride was an astrophysicist and tennis player, Judy Resnick, an electrical engineer. Ray and Anna were both medical doctors and Kathy Sullivan and oceanographer and geologist and Shannon

lucid a chemist. And, you know, some of them dreamed of going to space their whole lives. You know, Shannon was obsessed with Robert Goddard and read science fiction and she even, whenever the Mercury 7 were announced, she sent a letter to a magazine to see if women would be included as astronauts one day. But some of the other women didn't dream about being an astronaut. They just happened to find themselves in the right place at the right time with the right credentials. And so it really just goes to show that, you know, there wasn't one true path to space for any of these women. They all found their way and in some unique way to get to the space program. Let's go to the phone to Linda in St. Louis.

Hi, Linda. Hello. Hi there. Go ahead. Yeah, I wanted to remember Judy Resnick and Krista McCullough. They were on the same flight that went down. one of the O rings and the explosion. Yeah, the Challenger, right? Yeah, that's right.

That was very dramatic. I believe Reagan was president then, and yeah, I've seen a memorial to them in the deep area. Yeah, and it's definitely a big moment in the book as well. I think, unfortunately, most people remember Judy for being in the Challenger accident, but I hoped with this book to give her a little more backstory. She really did have a really interesting first flight

when she was the second American woman to fly. And so I actually enjoyed writing about Judy the most just because there is so little about her. And, you know, she was such a fascinating person. And unfortunately, her life was cut short. You write about a scary abort sequence that she had during testing. Yeah, and that's one of the moments in the book I really enjoyed writing about the most because that was one that people vividly remember who were in the cockpit in the cabin at the time.

So before Judy flew, her first attempt, her first major attempt had the first pad abort. So the engines briefly tried to ignite and then quickly cut off. And that had never happened in the shuttle program up until that point. And it was a very scary movement for everybody involved. And so when I did speak to people who were in the cabin, the astronauts that were on board with Judy during that moment, they all vividly remember it. And that's not always the case when it comes to writing books like this. You know, some people have memories that don't match up. But that one was very vivid and they remember it very clearly.

I remember when the book We 7 came out about the original male, seven, the Mercury astronauts. And they all sort of had the same background. You know, they had either a military or some kind of flying military flying experience. But the women did not, did they? No, no. I mean, some of them did have some piloting experience when they came in just because they were, you know, they wanted to fly. But that wasn't necessary. And that was made possible because of this new role that NASA had created at the time that allowed these women to come on board called the mission specialist.

Right. So when the shuttle was created, it was much more spacious. There was going to be a lot more activities that astronauts needed to do when they were on board. And so that's why NASA created this mission specialist role that didn't require that jet piloting experience didn't require piloting experience. It just you had to have a STEM degree in a relevant field. And so that meant that engineers, doctors, researchers, scientists could come on board. And that's really where these women excelled was in those fields. Yeah.

And you, as you were researching this book and interviewing subject, What were some of the biggest misconceptions about this time period that you came across, especially about the early women astronauts? Sure. So I think maybe I went in thinking that the women were going to have, you know, a really difficult time at NASA because, you know, it was such a macho ethos that they were coming into. But the women were actually quite complimentary of how they were treated at NASA, their colleagues, their male colleagues.

In fact, you know, they spent most of their time. with their male astronaut colleagues just because they had to stay current in their T-38 jets. And so that meant a lot of flying time with the pilots. They couldn't fly the jets themselves in the front seat. They had to fly in the backseat. So they spent a lot of time with their male colleagues, and they were very complimentary of them. It was really the press that turned out to be the biggest, I would say, adversary for the women. Yes, just because they were under so much scrutiny at the time.

They were extremely popular. The press really only wanted to talk to the women. And when they did speak to the women, the types of questions that they asked them were just, you know, you and I would laugh at them today. They were, you know, at one point, Sally Ride was asked if she'd ever dreamed of being born a boy. Gee, whiz. You know, Sally was famously asked if she wept in the simulator when something, some glitch happened. And then you had Johnny Carson at the same time was still making pretty sexist jokes. There was one about how Sally's flight was delayed because she couldn't find a matching shoes for her purse.

You know, just terrible jokes that would never fly today. And so it just goes to show that even though NASA was on board with making space for women at the time, the country still had a bit of catching up to do. Tell us what got you interested in writing the book to begin with. Yeah, absolutely. So as you mentioned, I'm a space reporter for Bloomberg. Prior to that, I was the senior space reporter for The Verge. And I've been reporting on space for about a decade now.

And even before then, you know, I like to say I have space in my blood. Both of my parents were engineers on the space shuttle program at NASA's Johnson Space Center. So I grew up outside of Houston. I kind of had a roundabout way of getting into space journalism. You know, as a teenager, I didn't find space to be that cool just because, you know, when your parents do something, It's not necessarily what you want to do either. But when I chose the route of journalism, I found myself being drawn back into space and stories of innovation. And I thought, I wonder if I can find somebody to pay me to write about space full time.

And I somehow managed to do it by some small miracle. And I've been writing about it ever since. And one of the things that's really important to me as a space journalist is centering women's stories in space. So, you know, as a woman in this industry, I sometimes feel very outnumbered. It's a very male-dominated industry still, both the space industry and space journalism in general. But more and more women have been coming into the field,

which has been great for me because I really gravitate towards them. We have a very shared camaraderie. You know, we're very close, and I love creating those bonds with other women in space journalism. And so, you know, it just became really important to me to talk about women in the industry. and made me start thinking about, you know, the women who came first.

So I was thinking, you know, who were the first female space journalist? And then that got me thinking, you know, who are the first women in space in general? And so that brought me to this group. And, you know, I'll be honest with you. I didn't know much about them either. I knew Sally Ride's name, but I really didn't know much about her story and her history. And the fact that I didn't know much about the other five women at all made me think, oh, I think this is a great opportunity to educate myself and also give them a more elevated platform.

Let me see if I can get a quick call in. Drew and Dayton before we go to the break. Hi, Drew. Hi. Go ahead. My daughter is eight, and a couple of years ago, she came across a YouTube video by Emily Calendrelli, who is a space journalist as well. And it just kind of opened up this door to this world of space that a lot of girls, her age, wouldn't have had in the past. So just the availability today of YouTube and TikTok and the number of female space journalists is growing because they have a platform that doesn't have any doors on them or isn't controlled by NASA or anything like that. I just think it's something that has really equalized the playing field is that availability of the Internet for young girls to see women in space, not only, you know, the historical ideas, but of course the now a lot of women that are doing space journalism is getting her really involved in space and wanting to be an astronaut. That's fantastic. And yeah, I completely agree. You know, having the Internet at our disposal has really helped spread our word, you know, and our work and gives us a lot of different outlets for being able to report about space. I know Emily very well. She's fantastic.

And I also love doing video stories. I think it's just a great way to change the way you tell a story. And it really brings in more people who might not have known about space than than ever before. Let's go to the phones. Let's go to Justin in Branson, Missouri. Hi, Justin. Welcome to Science Friday. Hello.

My question was just how pivotal of a role did Nichols play in recruiting women back in the 70s? Me from Star Trek? Yeah, no, it's actually a great story. So Nichols was recruited by NASA to record basically a PSA for the recruitment back in 1977. And she donned an astronaut jumpsuit, and she came to JSC and did various interviews and worked with some of the controls and the equipment there. And she filmed a PSA. And at the time, she was basically, she said, I'm going to bring you so many. women and people of color that you're good, you'll have to pick one of them. So she was actually

quite pivotal, quite pivotal in that experience. Yeah, sitting in my seat now. Yeah, I know. Well, we hear so much about Sally Ride. What about the other female women astronauts? We haven't heard very much about what their fates were as they as they got older and matured. Absolutely. Well, we know, you know, Judy Resnick. She was the second American woman to fly, the first Jewish American in space and also tragically lost her life on the Challenger accident. Following her was Kathy Sullivan. She was the first American woman to perform a spacewalk. And Kathy is still breaking records to this day.

So in 2020, she famously dove to Challenger's deep. So she's the only person to have walked in space and dove to the deepest part of the ocean. So even in the recent history, they're still breaking records after her. Anna Fisher, she's the first mother in space, an emergency room doctor by training. And then Ray Seddon, also a surgeon. And she, I loved writing about her flight. She would go on to fly a few more missions after her first flight. And she really, you know, focused on life sciences when she flew doing those kinds of experiments. And then Shannon Lucid was the last of the group to fly. But she'd actually go on to fly more time and space than the rest of them combined.

She's famously known for her extended stay on the Mir space station. And at the time, I believe she was the woman with the most flying time in space. She held that record for quite some time. Let's go to Brandon in Webster City. Hi, Brandon. Yes, hello? Yes, go ahead. So my question was not a history question, but like a future tense question.

The first person to walk on Mars, do we think if we've made a, conscious decision on if we wanted a woman to be the first person walk on Mars, African-American women, or if we have a date set in mind or when that might be possible? You know, that is the ultimate question. I think we're a little far off from Mars right now. In fact, NASA is not even focused on going to Mars at the moment. The real focus is sending people back to the moon through its Artemis program. But I feel like the Artemis program is really relevant to what we're talking about because it has the stated goal of sending the first woman and the first person of color to the lunar surface, hopefully this decade.

So that is something that is top of mind for NASA. So perhaps when it is time to send people to Mars, that will also be top of mind. We have a caller who says, caller wants to note that Sally Ride was also the first LGBT astronaut. Yes, absolutely. Well, at least the first known, you know, at the time she was married to fellow astronaut Steve Hawley, but after they divorced, she did start a relationship with a woman by the name of Tam O'Shaughnessy, who was very helpful in sharing her memories with me about Sally for this book. And yes, they did keep their relationship a secret during Sally's life.

But when she passed, Tam essentially came out and said that she had been Sally's partner. And yes, that made her the first known LGBTQ astronaut. Do you feel that these six women had a big impact on the space program? Absolutely. I mean, if anything, they had a little more difficult than the women who came after them. So they had to deal with those awful press questions that I was telling you about. You know, they had to deal with the first kind of women's issues, you know, in terms of, you know, how do you go to the bathroom in space when you're a woman and what facilities do you need? So they had to kind of work out those kinks at the beginning.

And also they didn't have, you know, mentors or other women mentors like them. They did have a quote unquote mother hen in the form of Carolyn Huntun, who was a NASA official at the time who gave them guidance and helped them whenever they needed any kind of help as a group. But they didn't really have other women astronauts they could turn to for help and guidance. But ultimately, they opened that door for all the women who came ash. after them. So future female astronauts, if they needed help or questions from a female mentor, they had that. And that's ultimately what pioneers do, right? You know, they do it, they have it hard at first so that the others that come after them have it easier. Do you think there's still some untold stories? Oh, absolutely. I think not even just among the first women astronauts, but the

women behind the scenes in the space program. You know, there are plenty who don't get that kind of fame and and acknowledgement, but they are instrumental in keeping, you know, the space shuttle flying or these spacecraft flying. So I think there's plenty of opportunity to tell stories of women within the space program who were kind of, you know, the engineers and the trainers as well. Quick few seconds. I have. Anything that most surprised you about your research? Most surprised me. I would say pleasantly surprised. It was learning about each of their differing personalities. I think when I started writing. this book, I had this perception that they were this united cohort and that they were all very

similar and, you know, they were locked, you know, arm and arm standing against the, you know, the oppression and the men at the time. And obviously, that wasn't the case. You know, they were, women just like every, every, every, all of us, they were closer and some were closer than others, but, you know, they were a very diverse group. It's a great book. Thank you, Lauren Grush, for taking down to be with us today. Thanks so much for having me. The Six, the Untold Story, of America's first women astronauts. And you can read an excerpt from Lauren's book at ScienceFriety.com slash the 6th.

And that's it for today. Lots of folks help make the show this week, including Sandy Roberts, George Harper, Annie Nero, Jason Rosenberg, and many more. Tomorrow on Science Friday, how researchers are using catcams to study the real secret lives of your feline friends. Thanks for listening.

We'll see you soon on Science Friday.