Science Vs - Scott Kelly: How A Year in Space Changes You

Episode Date: May 3, 2018

This week, something different. We speak to astronaut Scott Kelly, who went up to space a man and came back a Rhesus monkey. Just kidding, that didn’t happen at all. Listen to find out the real story. PLUS: We talk to Lynn Levy, star producer of the Gimlet show The Habitat. Check out the full transcript here: http://bit.ly/2LEvaf7 Selected readings:NASA’s updated press release about Scott and MarkMore information about its Twins StudyA paper about what space does to your eyeballs This episode has been produced by Romilla Karnick, Wendy Zukerman, and senior producer Kaitlyn Sawrey, with help from Rose Rimler and Shruti Ravindran. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. With additional help from Lynn Levy and Peter Bresnan. Fact checking by Michelle Harris. Mix and sound design by Emma Munger. Music written by Bobby Lord and Emma Munger. Recording help from Mark Bramhill. Extra thanks to Susan Bailey, Alan Hargens, Chris Mason, the Zukerman Family and Joseph Lavelle Wilson.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman, and you're listening to Science Versus from Gimlet Media. This is the show that pits facts against flying through space. On today's show, we're doing something a little different to what we usually do, and we're spending the episode talking to astronaut Scott Kelly. A few years ago, NASA sent Scott to live on the International Space Station for about a year. That's the longest stretch ever for NASA. And his story captured the world's attention. Scott Kelly sent an American record with his 340-day mission to the International Space Station.

The astronaut Scott Kelly will retire on April 1st. Rocket man Scott Kelly finally back on Earth this morning, the astronaut logging almost 144 million miles. Yes, Scott Kelly spent 340 days living in a metal container orbiting around Earth. And while he was up there, scientists analyzed every last inch of him, from his bones to his muscles and even his DNA. And they were trying to find out what being in space for so long can do to the human body.

NASA scientists were particularly excited to use Scott as their guinea pig because he has an identical twin brother, Mark, who's also an astronaut. And Mark would stay back on Earth so scientists could compare them. We'll get to all of that science in a bit. Because Scott told us that at first, when he decided to become an astronaut, he was pretty much just in it for the adventure. 3, 2, 1. adventure. When the solid rocket motors light, seven million pounds of thrust absolutely gets your attention. What's firing up your ass? It's seven million. Wait, did you say firing up your

ass? Yes. Are you allowed to say that? I guess you can say anything you want on a podcast. So on today's show, we're going to find out what it feels like to live with practically no gravity for almost a year, what it's like to see a sunset from space, and what it's like to be nearly vaporized by space junk. When it comes to space, there's a lot of rocket power. Firing up your ass. But then there's science.

Scott Kelly, the man who spent almost a year in space, is coming up just after the break. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome?

Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations. You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. It's season three of The Joy of Why, and I still have a lot of questions. Like, what is this thing we call time?

Why does altruism exist? And where is Jan 11? I'm here, astrophysicist and co-host, ready for anything. That's right, I'm bringing in the A-team. So brace yourselves. Get ready to learn. I'm Jana Levin. I'm Steve Strogatz.

And this is... Quantum Magazine's podcast, The Joy of Why. New episodes drop every other Thursday, starting February 1st. What does the AI revolution mean? For jobs. For getting things done. Who are the people creating this technology jobs, for getting things done? Who are the people creating this technology and what do they think? I'm Rana El-Khelyoubi, an AI scientist, entrepreneur, investor, and now host of the new podcast, Pioneers of AI.

Think of it as your guide for all things AI with the most human issues at the center. Join me every Wednesday for Pioneers of AI. And don't forget to subscribe wherever you tune in. Welcome back. So NASA astronaut Scott Kelly was recently sent to live on the International Space Station for about a year. And NASA wanted Scott to stay up there for so long because they're planning for the future when we go to Mars. It could take three years to get to Mars and back. And before we go on that trip, scientists need to know what all that time in space could do to the human body. So that's what Scott was doing up there.

And he told us that when he was a kid, he would have never expected that NASA would pick him for this big, important mission. Because he and his twin brother were kind of bad students and pretty naughty kids. You know, we were a little bit hyperactive, borderline troublemakers. and his twin brother were kind of bad students and pretty naughty kids. You know, we were a little bit hyperactive, borderline troublemakers, I would say, around the neighborhood. You know, spent the first 13 years of my education basically looking out the window wondering what was going on outside.

Is there a time that you think about that's like really like emblematic of Scott Kelly as a kid? I can remember being in the fifth grade and having a spelling test, and one of the words was auditorium. I can remember looking out the window and seeing across the street the junior high school in very big letters, the word auditorium on the top of it. So there was one case where looking out the window for 13 straight years actually helped me.

So he wasn't the best student. He barely squeaked into college. And it was there that he read a book, The Right Stuff, about space pilots. And just like that, he decided, I'm going to be an astronaut. Scott got really motivated. He became a Navy pilot, applied to NASA. And in 1996, he got the call and became a NASA astronaut. Scott told us about the first time that he rocketed up into space. You know that this is, you know, the most powerful thing you will ever be riding on in your life. You're happy that the thing doesn't blow up, and eight and a half minutes, you're

flying around the earth at 25 times the speed of sound. And he has this really clear memory of what happened next. Just like when he was a kid, he looked out the window. And I just saw something on the outside that I didn't even recognize what it was. And I turned to the commander of the flight, what the hell is that? And he said, that's the sunrise. You know, I knew right then and there, I would never see anything as beautiful as planet Earth again. What made it unrecognizable? How different does it look to the sunrise that I saw this morning?

In space, they're very, very colourful. I would say more brilliant in that you're not really looking at them through the filter of an atmosphere. But they're also over much quicker. Sunsets are over quickly in space because you're moving really fast. So, for example, on the International Space Station, Sunsets are over quickly in space because you're moving really fast. So, for example, on the International Space Station, it circles around the Earth 16 times a day.

So you get 16 sunrises and 16 sunsets. And what is the most beautiful place that you can see from space? You know, the Bahamas is very spectacular from space. It's, you know, expansive blue water, not ever mistakable for anything else. And I would always like to take a first-time space flyer and introduce them to the Bahamas from space, because just to see the look on their faces and how, you know, incredible it looks. Scott says that not all of the views were spectacular, like looking out of the window and seeing some cities covered in smog. You know, in certain areas almost always covered in pollution.

Oh, you can see the pollution. In certain parts of the Earth, yeah. You're living on this space station that really demonstrates our capacity to do some incredible things if we put our minds to it. Yet, you know, there are a lot of things on Earth that aren't incredible. When NASA wanted to do something particularly incredible, Scott was interested. They wanted to send him into space for their longest mission ever. Funnily enough, Scott told us that NASA wasn't actually planning this mission.

That was until the Russians said they were going to send someone to space for a year. And the Russians had actually already sent several people into space for that long. So the Americans were now going to step up. Cold War habits die hard. So, Scott was chosen, and he was honoured, sure, yadda yadda yadda, but he says that in a lot of ways, space can kind of suck. Living in an enclosed environment where you can't leave, you can't go outside, there's no weather, there's no sun, no wind, no rain.

Like, you know, when you go to sleep, you're at work. When you wake up, you're still at work. So you worry about, like, getting burned out, basically. And if something bad happens back home, Scott says this can be really tough. That's one of the things I have always found to be the hardest part about being in space for a long time is that if something happens to your family, you can't be with them.

You're not coming home. Separating from the tower, marking less than 15 seconds, the engine's igniting. In 2015, Scott, along with Russian cosmonaut Mikhail Kornienko, was shot into space to spend a year on the International Space Station. Ramping up. And liftoff. The year in space starts now. And almost as soon as NASA marooned Scott in space,

they were studying what was happening to his body. Scientists already knew that being in space could be brutal. You get bombarded with radiation nearly ten times more than what we're exposed to on Earth, increasing your risk of cancer. But some of the most mysterious effects on the body come from something else, living in near zero gravity. This can weaken your bones and your heart and even make your muscles shrink. And when you think about it, for millions and millions of years, life on Earth has evolved

to thrive in our gravity. Every process in our body, how we walk, how we pee, how we sleep, has evolved to work in gravity. So what happens when you take it away? Well, Scott told us that at first, your body doesn't really know what to do. Like, think of your arms. With no gravity to pull them down, they just kind of float. You know, the arm floating thing, I would fold my arms a lot in space.

For me, my arms floating in front of me like Frankenstein were never, I don't know, it seems kind of awkward, and so I would always fold my arms over one another. And without much gravity, researchers think that a lot of the fluids in your body, like your blood, that would normally drain down, instead hangs around closer to your head. And Scott says this can make his head swell up. What is the feeling?

Stand on your head, and that's the feeling. Like all the time, until you adjust? Yeah. That feeling never goes completely away and is not comfortable. And when the fluid doesn't drain from your head, it can collect in weird places. Yeah, that feeling never goes completely away and is not comfortable. And when the fluid doesn't drain from your head, it can collect in weird places, potentially squishing your eyeballs out of shape. This might affect how you see.

In fact, Scott's eyesight has become worse since living in space. And this is pretty common among astronauts. And the effect of this lack of gravity isn't just seen in humans. While on the space station, Scott was doing experiments in mice to see how these maestronauts handled themselves in space. You know, in a lot of ways, they look like us when we first get up there. We're, you know, rookie space flyers. You know, you don't move around well. You look kind of sickly at first.

Scott says that space mice look kind of goofy until they get used to that practically zero gravity. And then they start to adjust. And he says he can tell the difference when they do. You could really see that on their face? I wouldn't say you see it with their little mouse smiles, but just how they move around, they look like they're happier. Scott might have felt a certain kinship to these mice because he was a lab animal too. He gave blood samples, urine,

and even took ultrasounds of his eyeballs while he was on the space station. And one of the big questions that scientists had was maybe a little bit odd. They wanted to know, did space affect Scott's DNA? And here's where Scott's identical twin brother, Mark, comes in very handy. Mark stayed back on Earth as a kind of control. And because identical twins have pretty much identical DNA, NASA scientists compared the brothers' DNA

before, during and after Scott's mission. And some of the media got a bit carried away with the findings. They were born with the same DNA, but after one of them spent a year in space, things have changed. NASA says spending a year in space actually made astronaut Scott Kelly into a new man as he returned with different DNA. It was reported that Scott's DNA had changed so much that Scott was no longer identical to his twin. Yeah, somebody reported that 7% of my DNA had changed. So Scott's like... Does that mean it's like I am now closer to the rhesus monkey than I am

to my brother Mark? No, Scott's DNA actually didn't change while he was in space. And NASA released a statement verifying that Scott and Mark are still identical twins. But there was something going on with their genetics. And to understand what happened, you need to know this. DNA is kind of like an instruction manual, but your body has a bunch of processes to interpret those instructions. And it's this interpretation that changed, not Scott's actual DNA.

Scott had a poetic way of explaining this. And if you think of our DNA as two orchestras where the orchestras are exactly alike. Those orchestras are Scott and his brother Mark's DNA. And before Scott spent so much time in space, these orchestras were pretty much playing the same tune. But after about a year orbiting Earth... So just think of, you know, if there's 100 instruments,

seven of those instruments are playing a little bit of a different tune than what my brothers are playing. And that was a result of me being in space. And what does this mean for Scott? Well, according to NASA, the genes were getting used differently in a few areas, like in his bones and his immune system. And those changes stuck around for at least six months after Scott returned to Earth, suggesting that some of the changes that happened to our body while we're in space for a long time don't just snap back once you're home again. But still, for the moment, we don't know exactly how this will affect Scott's health in the long term. And as for the rest of us and our ambitions to go to Mars,

well, this is just one piece of the puzzle. After all, it's just one study of two dudes, both of whom have spent some time in space. Plus, the research hasn't been peer-reviewed and published yet. For now, it's just an intriguing first step as we try to figure out how dangerous, or not, it is for our bodies to be in space for the long term. Just as Scott and I were wrapping up our chat,

he told me about this wild story that happened while he was in space. It was in the summertime of 2015. I was up there with just two cosmonauts at the time. It was a regular day. Scott was doing some exercises, catching up on Game of Thrones. When NASA contacted him and said, we need to talk to you privately. And when this happened, Scott thought,

oh, no, something has to be very wrong. And it was. An old Russian satellite was hurtling towards the International Space Station. And it looked like it might hit. If it struck the space station... I think we would have been instantly vaporised. You wouldn't have known it. I think one second you're there, the next you're gone.

Oh my God. And there was nothing the crew could do to stop it. And you sit there and wait until this 35,000-mile-an-hour object is going to get within a mile of you and maybe hit you. And then, while sitting and waiting to be vaporised, Scott got another message from NASA. The danger was still there, but now he had to do a media interview.

Yeah, it had been pre-organised, with something about the Kentucky Derby, and as Scott tells it, it couldn't be cancelled. Here's what an interview with Scott Kelly sounds like when a deadly hunk of space junk is racing towards him at thousands of miles an hour. Can you tell us what landmark or continent you are currently over? Well, I can't tell you for sure. I was going to find out, but we got busy all of a sudden. Yep, busy all of a sudden. When the interview was done, Scott and the cosmonauts hunkered down and hoped for the best.

There was a countdown as to when the satellite was going to hit. So they waited and waited. And then... ..nothing. The old Russian satellite had missed them, skimming past, leaving the space station untouched. Eventually the Russian control center comes on the radio and says, you guys can go back to work now, you know, emergency over.

That's all they say? Oh, you can go back to work now? No. I think they said, it is safe, you can go back to work now. How generous of them. Just another day at the space office, I guess. After almost a year, it was time for Scott to go back home. In an interview with NASA, he said one of the things he was most looking forward to

was having dinner without the spoon wandering off. To get to that dinner table, though, Scott would have one more adventure. He'd have to get back to planet Earth, which he says is a pretty bumpy ride. Well, it's kind of like going over Niagara Falls in a barrel, but while you're on fire. And when you realize you're not going to die, the most fun you've ever had in your life. Right. The parachute opens, you're thrown around like crazy, and it's absolutely terrifying. I'm kidding. Easy? Who can say? And just like that, Scott's year in space was over. You know, when they open the hatch and fresh air rushes inside and you get pulled out of the capsule,

it's a feeling I'll never forget. NASA's still poking and prodding Scott, trying to learn as much as they can about the weird things that space does to your body. But if we want to make it to Mars, we probably can't just send Scott and a cosmonaut. We'll need a team of people. Would being trapped

on a spaceship with a group of nerds drive you mad? How does NASA stop Lord of the Flies from happening in space? A new podcast documenting that year-long experiment coming up just after the break.

Welcome back. So we've just spent a year in space with NASA astronaut and identical twin Scott Kelly. But if we want to get to Mars, we'll probably need a whole team of people living together, pooing together, and importantly, not killing each other. So how does NASA figure out if people can actually do this? Turns out there are these big, bizarre experiments going on.

And Lynn Levy, science journalist and Gimlet producer, is kind of obsessed with them. So there are space simulations on Earth around you that you don't even know about on a daily basis. Like right next door? Well, I don't know. It depends on where you are. So if you're in Utah, then there's one kind of right next door in the desert. Really? There's a space simulation in Utah? Mm-hmm. There's a space simulation in Utah, then there's one kind of right next door in the desert. Really? There's a space

simulation in Utah? There's a space simulation in Utah where people pretend they're living on Mars. There's one in Texas. And there was one that was underwater where people go underwater, pretend to be in space. So tell me about one of these simulations called the, what is it, the bedrest? Oh, the bedrest simulation is, is to me this is the most insane thing to sign up for they put you in a bed and a six degree incline so your feet are always a tiny bit higher than your head and this is sort of the closest simulation of the effects of microgravity on the body and people will stay in the bed for their studies can be very short but they can also be months long so what's your favorite

of all the simulations out there? Well, my favorite, of course, is the one closest to my heart, which is the one that I spent a year profiling, which is in Hawaii. It's on a volcano. Lim told us that in this simulation on a Hawaiian volcano, a crew of people live in a dome for a whole year, which is supposed to mimic how the first adventurers to Mars might live. And Lynn actually visited that simulation. She did it while making a podcast called The Habitat. So we're going to play a slice of the first episode. Here's Lynn. I'm standing on the side of a giant volcano in a remote part of Hawaii. It's cold. It's actually really cold.

And all I can see is rock. And the only thing I can see other than rock is this dome. This dome is the habitat. It's a life-sized model of the thing astronauts could live in on Mars when we finally get there. It's white, it's about the size of a two-car garage, and it is the site of a really crazy experiment. See, the first people on Mars will be further from home than any person has ever been before.

They'll be on a totally desolate planet with only each other for company. And they'll be crammed together in a glorified pup tent. That mixture of isolation and confinement, of being stuck so far from Earth and so close to each other, what does that do to a person? That's what this dome and this experiment are designed to find out. The experiment is called HI-SEAS. It stands for Hawaii Space Exploration Analog and Simulation, and it was set up to help NASA test equipment for Mars. But the equipment

being tested here isn't the rockets or the spacesuits. It's not even the habitat I'm standing in front of. HI-SEAS was designed to test a far more critical piece of equipment, humans. The humans are a part of this whole system, And if the humans fail, the system's just as broken as if the rockets do. Yeah, and humans do fail a lot. Humans fail, yeah. This is Kim Binstead. She's a professor at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. And she's in charge of this whole experiment. And let's not kid ourselves, if our astronauts are not functioning extremely well as

individuals and extremely well as a team, that is going to put the mission at risk. So Kim and her team have chosen six volunteers, six human guinea pigs, to live in this habitat as if it's actually on Mars. And the rules are, the atmosphere outside is poison. If they step outside without a spacesuit on, they'll die. They're going to live like that in this little dome cut off from their friends and families for one whole year. It's like the premise of a space age reality show. The true story of six strangers picked to live in a dome to find out what happens when people go to Mars.

That was Lynn Levy describing this weird space simulation in Hawaii for her podcast, The Habitat. So scientists are doing all these things. They're sending Scott Kelly up into the space station for a year, cramming people into a tiny dome on a Hawaiian volcano, and they're even sending people to Utah. But seriously though, they're doing all this stuff to try to find out what it could be like for our minds and our bodies when we finally go to Mars. But when we're doing something so complicated

that takes us so far away from home, there's only so much that we can learn from experimenting. There are always going to be questions. And we're just going to have to wait to see what happens when we do finally blast off. That's Science vs A Year In Space. Next week, we're taking a little break to do some reporting but when we get back we are going to meet some polar bears

Yes, some polar bears and we'll find out Are they really on the verge of extinction? I've never seen a polar bear before Ever? What a great day This is going to be so much fun This episode has been produced by Ramila Karnik Me, Wendy Zuckerman ever. What a great day. This is going to be so much fun.

This episode has been produced by Romila Karnik, me, Wendy Zuckerman, senior producer Caitlin Sorey, with help from Rose Rimler and Shruti Ravindran. We're edited by Blythe Terrell, with additional help from Lynn Levy and Peter Bresnan. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, mix and sound design by Emma Munger,

music written by Bobby Lord and Emma Munger. Recording help from Peter Brammel. Extra thanks to Susan Bailey, Alan Hargans, Chris Mason, the Zuckerman family and Joseph Lavelle Wilson. And make sure that you subscribe to The Habitat. It's really wonderful. I'm Wendy Zuckerman.

Back to you next time.