Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 10/10/24 Dave DeCamp on the Latest Atrocities in Gaza and the Year-old Lies Used to Excuse Them
Episode Date: October 15, 2024Scott had Dave DeCamp back on Antiwar Radio to discuss the developments in Gaza. They begin with frequent guest Ramzy Baroud’s sister who was just killed by the IDF in Gaza. They also talk about the... scores of journalists Israel has killed so far, the IDF’s latest strategy in northern Gaza, the Grayzone’s new documentary exposing some Israeli lies about the October 7 attacks and more. Discussed on the show: “Journalist Ramzy Baroud Mourns His Sister Killed Today by Israeli Bombs” (Antiwar.com) Atrocity Inc: How Israel Sells Its Destruction Of Gaza — The Grayzone Airwars report on Israel air campaign in Gaza Dave DeCamp is the news editor of Antiwar.com and the host of Antiwar News with Dave DeCamp. Follow him on Twitter @decampdave This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Robers Brokerage Incorporated; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript
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For Pacifica Radio, October the 10th, 2004.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is Anti-War Radio.
All right, y'all welcome the show.
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and I'm the author of the book, Enough Already.
Time to end the war on terrorism.
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And, of course, I'm here every Thursday from 2.30 to 3 on KPFK, 90.7 FM in L.A.
All right, introducing this week's guest.
It's Dave DeCamp, our news editor.
at anti-war.com and host of the podcast, Anti-War News. Welcome back. How are you doing, Dave?
I'm good, Scott. Thanks for having me. So the Israelis murdered Ramsey Baroud's sister, huh?
Yeah. This is our story, picture story at anti-war.com today. He's a picture of his sister,
Dr. Soma Baroud. And he says that she was killed while she was in a taxi in the Con Unis area
and that she was killed along with six other innocent people.
Ramsey put out a little post about it.
And people know, I mean, if you listen to the show, you know Ramsey.
He's a frequent guest.
He's a regular contributor to anti-war.com.
So a real tragedy for him.
Yeah.
And I don't believe that this is his first loss in this slaughter either.
Did the Israelis even bother making any excuses they were targeting a militant or anything?
I haven't found any details, like any statements from them about this specific strike.
All right.
I mean, I guess in the scheme of things, there's every reason to suspect that this was deliberate.
The Israeli government has been murdering journalists and family members of journalists for the last year, straight, unapologetically.
And so if they were to target Ramsey Baroud's sister, well, one for being a doctor and two for being his sister, I'd believe it.
Yeah, I mean, Ramsey, you know, the Palestine Chronicle, which he runs, I mean, you know, they've been providing a lot of coverage of stuff happening on the ground in Gaza. They have, they had reporters there. They recently had a woman who worked for them was recently killed by the IDF. And, you know, their stuff has gotten a lot of traction over the past year. So it's certainly possible. There was just a 19-year-old journalist in northern Gaza who was killed after receiving threats on WhatsApp. He was getting these messages, you know, if you don't
stop lying about Israel, you know, you're going to pay. And then he ends up dead, you know,
a few days after that. So it's certainly possible. I definitely would not rule that out.
Yeah. Remember, everyone, when this war started a year ago, they said, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima,
Nagasaki. If you guys can do Dresden, then we can do whatever we want here. And you're just
supposed to be too ignorant to know that America and the world implemented the Geneva Can
since then, it's illegal to do that to somebody's city, to somebody's civilian neighborhood.
But here, the Israelis are absolutely unapologetic.
Yes, they deliberately kill civilians.
Lady doctor, blow up her car.
Of course, she's no less an enemy to them.
Yeah, and I mean, I think the big important update to talk about now when it comes to Gaza is what's happening in northern Gaza.
This past weekend, they ordered, you know, a new evacuation for all of northern Gaza, all the areas north of what's called the Netzerim corridor, which is this strip of land that the IDF has basically bulldozed everything. They set up military bases. And they're telling all the Palestinians north of that to go south. So once they go south, they won't be able to go back. They know that there's no real safe place for them in the south. I know it looks like some Palestinians have been on the move, but for the most part,
a lot of people are staying.
And this is, this appears to be the first part of this big plan that was drawn up by these
retired Israeli generals called, known as the generals plan.
And it's essentially an ethnic cleansing plan for Northern Gaza.
The idea is to move all the civilians, you know, give them an evacuation, and then after a week
or so, declare all of Northern Gaza a closed military zone, which means you can shoot and kill
anybody who that's left and then impose like a full siege, a full starvation blockade to starve
anybody who's left. So kill or starve everybody who's there. And, you know, Israeli media
is saying that they're essentially starting this. They're going to, they're going to, they're going
a little slower than, you know, the plan really calls for just so they don't get too much heat
from the world. But this is a perfect time for them to do this. This is, you know, with everything
happening in Lebanon and, and the tensions with Iran. But,
And right now they're focusing on the Jabaliyah refugee camp.
They're completely surrounded and it's just a total nightmare.
They've ordered three hospitals to evacuate all the patients.
And those patients include newborn babies.
So it looks like they're carrying out their final solution for northern Gaza.
And then the plan calls for, okay, once you're done in the north, you start moving south.
Right.
And now, so I think we talked about this a few weeks ago, where Danny Davis, who's an Army lieutenant colonel,
he was being you know arguing all other things being equal if you were trying to do a counterinsurgency strategy and you got to hand it to him the gaza strip is a pretty small place so if it would be possible for a foreign alien society to wage a counterinsurgency campaign in a place like this is maybe the most likely place for it to be able to succeed if only because of the size and
relatively small population compared to, say, for example, pacifying Afghanistan.
But then what he said was, if they were going to do that, then it would make sense to force people
into this side of this quadrant, behind this line, and then filter people back and forth so that
they're able to get the fighting age males and hopefully most, especially the actual Hamas fighters
out while protecting everybody else and then the idea would be you know encounter insurgency
is to try to sell the women and children and elderly on the idea that we're your security force
now not your men and you're just going to have to get used to that and this is the way it is
and they're not even trying to do that they're just chasing them to and fro bombing the
crap out of them here bombing them there go to this safe zone then they bomb the safe zone so now
What you're describing sounds like someone is actually trying to apply some sort of scientific technique to what they're doing here.
But in fact, like you're saying, it ultimately sounds like just further cleansing.
They're going to remove these people, not filter back the safe civilians, but just push them further south and keep them there.
Maybe bulldoze all that land and build some condos there just like Jared Kushner said.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's clear that that's what the people in the Israeli government ultimately want to do. And again, this is kind of the perfect time for them. You know, Biden, Harris, they're not going to change, alter their support for Israel between now and the election. And especially if things really pop off here with Iran. I mean, we're basically expecting an Israeli attack on Iran to happen any moment. And if that really blows up, then I mean, nobody's going to be looking at Gaza. I mean, even now, it's
there's a lot more eyes on Lebanon.
I mean, for good reason, you know, the escalations in Lebanon have been very serious.
But, you know, you just go back to a few months ago, it seemed like there was just a lot more
pressure and kind of attention on Gaza, and that's been lost.
So it's Netanyahu certainly sees his opportunity.
All right.
Well, I know that Biden and Harris did a phone call with Netanyahu, and they published a readout.
What did we learn from that?
I mean, the readout wasn't much, but what we learned from the Axios report.
And you could kind of figure this out from the readout, was that basically they discussed Israel's plans to attack Iran.
Israel, you know, they're saying that they're going to respond to the Iranian missile barrage that was fired at their territory last week.
That came in response to a string of Israeli assassinations and escalations in the region.
And the U.S. did directly intervene to shoot down some missiles, but some missiles did make impact.
So the Israelis, you know, they're really threatening things.
Based on all the reports I've been reading, they're considering, it sounds like they're
going to strike, go for military targets in Iran, like air defenses or something like that.
But they're talking about Israel launching airstrikes, and that would probably require some
support from the U.S., and the U.S. is basically saying they are going to support it, that they're
going to work. Jake Sullivan after the Iranian attack, the first thing he said was we're going
to work with Israel to make sure there's severe consequences for this attack.
The worst case scenario, I think, is that there are some reports of this that the U.S. is considering direct airstrikes of its own against Iran.
And I think that's less likely to happen than just intelligence support, but they're talking about it.
Well, and did I read this right that they were saying, well, maybe we ought to go ahead and bomb them so that we're the ones picking the targets, not the Israelis, and we'll do a more judicious job of airstriking?
I mean, I think that's kind of the attitude.
There's this report that the U.S. has offered compensation for Israel if they hit basically U.S. approved targets, if they don't go too far.
The U.S. doesn't want them to hit the nuclear facilities.
I don't think they want them to hit the oil facilities.
So the U.S. is trying to control it by offering them some more military aid, which is just crazy.
And then...
Well, you talk about the flea wagon, the dog.
Hey, Israel.
We know you're going to bomb Iran and drag us in.
into a war, but
please, here, I'll tell you what, here's
some American taxpayer money.
Not that they need any of their
own money. You can have it.
If you promise to just bomb this, not that.
Yeah, that's the attitude
here. This is amazing.
I know this is controversial, but I don't
think Joe Biden is very good president.
Yeah, no. Me neither.
And I mean, from Iran's, you know, what they've been
saying, I mean, it sounds like, you know,
that they're not going to restrain themselves. I mean, that's what they've been saying.
Basically, any Israeli attack, they're going to hit back. So I think there is a real risk here.
You know, whenever we talk about this, at least a few months ago, it was clear that the Ayatollah did not want war with the U.S.,
but with everything that Israel's just done recently, I mean, killing Nasrallah, bombing the hell out of Lebanon,
invade, basically invading southern Lebanon, I think he's thinking now, you know, the war's coming
to him, whether he likes it or not. I mean, you know, when we talk about Iran and Israel, it's not
like, I can't imagine any like ground fighting between them, really, but I can imagine this
turning into just like really heavy missile strikes back and forth. And then, you know, Iran's
allies, the Shia militias in Iraq and Syria might really get on the fighting, maybe poor and
Lebanon or something. So it seems like, I mean, it seems like this is the direction that we're
headed. And the U.S. is right there with Israel. You know, there's been rumors about this for a long time.
And I wonder what is the extent of Pesbollah's infiltration in Europe in terms of actual
fighters, so-called sleeper cells, who'd be willing to hit soft targets in the event of a war.
It's got to be something, you know. I didn't see this, but I was talking with Eric Garris.
from our boss at anti-war.com and he told me he was watching Fox News and when Iran fired their
missile salvo at Israel, which was what a few hundred, that the Fox News lady declared, see,
this proves that they want to kill every last Jew in the world.
This is like, what?
How is you figure correlation there?
Meanwhile, the fact is the Iranian Revolution was in 1979.
and they have done everything possible to avoid war with the United States and haven't done
really a thing besides retaliatory missile strikes against Israel for my entire lifetime since I was
three so if they get into a war with Iran we know who started it and why it ain't like the Ayatollah's
been biting his time until he gets the opportunity
to attack Israel.
That's not what's happening here.
So it's just another major example on a unlimited pile of Israel's interests being absolutely
diametrically opposed to those of the American people in our country.
And you saw Kamala Harris in her 60 Minutes interview, she was asked, who is the greatest
adversary facing the U.S.
And she said Iran.
And her reasoning was the missile attack on Israel.
so yeah at least she didn't say russia i don't know because hey at the end of the day iran doesn't
have nukes so what the hell dave we can fight them right we'll only lose a few tens of thousands
of guys rather than our major cities and millions and millions yeah well the the official line
from the u.s is that china is the greatest adversary actually but you know you know it goes to
show that that missile attack and this is one thing you know when we saw in april when iran
first attacked Israel in response to them bombing their consulate in Syria, there was kind of a lot,
it seemed like a lot of criticism, a lot of pressure on Biden from Democrats and Congress overarming
Israel. But then right after that, I mean, they all fall in line except a few of them. So, you know,
Israel kind of gets a benefit, a boost in U.S. support from these Iranian attacks. And we saw
the same thing with this. So, and then, you know, if this thing does, you know, if Israel attacks
and Iran hits back and then say they go for U.S. bases and some Americans die, then I mean, that's it.
You know, then it's war between the U.S. and Iran.
And, yeah, it's just, I can't believe that we're actually in this position, just how bad things have gotten in the past few months.
Yeah.
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You know, it's amazing. I saw someone had sent me a clip, and, you know, this is Donald Trump's deliberate style, is to just be on all sides of all issues.
But it was a quote of him saying, you know, we just need to make a deal with Iran.
and solve this thing.
And I'm like, what?
Yeah.
Boy, Miriam Adelson is going to be mad when she hears that he blurted that out, you know?
Like, that's not the line that he's supposed to say.
He calls himself the Lakud Party candidate for president, and he's talking about making a deal with the Ayatollah.
Whereas Kamala Harris wouldn't dare be so bold as to even accidentally stumble and say that, you know.
But then it's just amazing to see the contest between these two for who can be the most craven before Israel and right at their absolute worst when Israel is acting as bad as they have in their entire history.
You know what, Dave, and I saw this week, is the saddest thing I ever saw, Nicholas Christoph Wright in the New York Times, which is really saying something.
he said boy
this war could really end up costing
Kamala Harris some votes
in Michigan
and I'm just like what
in Michigan
what because there's Arabs and Muslims there
what about the other
350 million of us
nobody cares about this
this was an issue
when it wasn't Kamala
running for president when it was Joe
Biden it was genocide
but now it's fine?
I don't know how anyone in this country
could be a liberal Democrat.
I would have such a headache.
My God.
I mean, it is pretty, it's sad
how this kind of became a non-issue.
For a moment, it did seem like
it was going to be a big problem
for the Democrats,
but everybody's kind of fallen in line,
I mean, except for people
who are really affected by it.
And of course, people who, you know,
who are really opposed to it.
But yet, it just doesn't seem like,
I mean, it's really that much of a factor in people's vote this year.
And, you know, again, all this stuff we're talking about, I mean, the consequences for
the U.S. could be catastrophic, like, soon.
I mean, you know, the situation right now in the region with Iran, and yeah, it still
just doesn't seem like it's really high on the list of what people are going to go to the polls
for.
Anyways, so I think it's important to mention this week.
it came out at the gray zone.
Max Blumenthal has a new documentary
about what happened a year ago
in the attack on October the 7th.
And it's the basis for all this.
And I have to imagine people in the radio audience
are listening to this.
And they go, wow, these guys never mention
how Hamas did a really bad thing
on one day, 367 days ago or whatever.
But the thing of it is that, yeah,
everybody knows that.
That's why we call it October the 7th.
It was over by dinner time.
It wasn't even, we don't even call it the second week of October of 2023 or October 7th and 8th.
We call it October the 7th because it lasted a few hours.
And then the Israelis have killed high tens of thousands of innocent people in revenge since then.
And then Max Blumenthal comes out with this documentary and shows that, yes, Hamas did commit atrocities.
Yes, they killed civilians.
There's no question about that.
But also, you know who killed a bunch of Israeli civilians on October the 7th?
The Israeli government.
And they invoked a doctrine called the Hannibal Directive,
which was supposed to imply it was invented to apply to conscripted soldiers in the IDF,
who at least are combatants in a way, something.
And then that morning, on the fly, they announced mass Hannibal.
And they machine gun with their tanks and their helicopters,
their own civilians as they were being kidnapped and taken back into Gaza
and blew up their own kibbutzs with civilians inside.
And then they blamed all those charred corpses and all that absolute carnage on Hamas.
And in the American audience's mind,
they changed Hamas from the Islamist terrorists that they already were into ISIS,
into bin Ladenite absolute head-chopping berser lunatics,
which is not what they are.
In fact, Hamas kills bin Ladenites when they poke their head up
because they're not that radical.
They've not been.
They're part of the Muslim Brotherhood.
And they are right-wing Islamists.
I'm not apologizing for him, but I'm just saying they're not al-Qaeda.
But that's what Benjamin Netanyahu, the liar, lies and says.
He says they cut the heads off of all these big.
babies. And that's why they're not a bunch of Palestinian civilians about to be slaughtered. No,
they're all a bunch of ISIS guys throwing gay people off of roofs and this kind of thing. And
I see it all the time. When I was on Twitter, people say to me, oh yeah, well, Hamas throws gay people
off roofs. No, they don't. That was Benjamin Netanyahu's al-Qaeda servants in Syria. That was not
Hamas. Those people worked for Israel and Barack Obama at that time. So that's, that's a
People really need to go to the gray zone and watch this documentary because as bad as the Israelis murder little babies on purpose, they lie to you to justify it.
They fill your head with disinformation so that you will side with a bunch of psycho killers against a bunch of innocent victims locked in a concentration camp.
It's called Atrocity Inc.
And it's right there on YouTube.
And I'm sorry for the rant, Dave, but go ahead if you had something to add about that.
Yeah, no, I was just going to say, I mean, the way it's really important documentary,
because he lays it all out really well, kind of the timeline of how all this stuff spread.
And, you know, it really is amazing that you see this claim 40 beheaded babies
and then how it just spreads to all the major news channels in the U.S., spreading it,
and then the politicians in Congress, and then that even got to President of Biden.
Biden claimed that he saw pictures and videos of children being beheaded and then the White House later walked it back because they knew it was fake.
But he claimed that in one of his big announcements, one of his big addresses, talking about how the U.S. was going to give all this support to Israel.
So, you know, people hear that.
People who don't follow this stuff, who don't see the retractions, they see that.
And it gets in their mind.
And it stayed there for a year, right?
Yeah. As, you know, it's the famous Mark Twain saying about a lie gets around the world before the truth has a chance to get its boots on. And that's exactly what happens here. And as my wise old friend, Shauna said, when they were lying us into a Rock War II 25 years ago. They see, they don't care if their lie gets debunked later that day or the next day. All that matters is people buy it long enough to get that emotional reaction, that dopamine hit off of it. Oh my God. Did you hear Saddam Hussein?
Hussein throws dissidents in a giant human shredder.
And you go, oh my God, somebody's got to do something about that guy.
And then later they go, come on, that's such a lie.
And you go, yeah, but still he is pretty bad, though.
And the lie still stuck anyway.
And that's how it worked.
And that's how America attacked, what, the fifth weakest country in the world 25 years ago in Iraq War II.
And that's how the Israelis justify what they're doing to the Palestinians now.
They pretend, as Blumenthal says, and Blumenthal is great.
You know, I disagree with him about some political issues and whatever, but as a journalist, he is reliable.
And he just goes, look, what do they describe it like it's the Texas chainsaw massacre, what Hamas did there.
But that's not true.
They shot people and blew up people.
But it wasn't this absolute horror show hanging babies corpses on the clothes line and all of this stuff.
This is obviously embellished propaganda.
And I don't know about you people in the audience, but I hate it when people lie to me.
And the fact that the Israelis lie all the time that they bear false witness against their enemies would seem to indicate that they know that they are the guilty aggressors.
And I don't know how any Americans can tolerate it.
Somebody lies to me two or three times.
You've got a lifetime vendetta.
I can't stand it.
and trying to get us, the whole purpose of the lies,
is to make us agree with them and hate the Palestinians
and support their murder of these innocent people.
It doesn't work on me.
And you see in that documentary, the rescue workers from that Zaka group,
and then there's a few others.
It's just completely outlandish stories that they told,
and then there was never any evidence,
any, nobody's ever matched any of the gruesome stories that they told us.
And, but you saw Blinken, Antony Blinken in testifying to Congress and repeating these stories.
Right.
And it's all over.
I mean, you always hear that.
Whenever you see, like, people go on these shows to, like, debate this, I know Pierce Morgan always has people on.
Dave Smith goes on there a lot.
And what do they always shout people down with the Israel supporters?
All these kind of just, like, lurid tales of, they did this to Aramatee recently when he was on.
And he did not, he said, that's not true.
And of course, that's it.
Oh, now you're a Holocaust denier or whatever.
and they just use it to smear anyone who opposes this thing.
So it is really important.
And again, I was really happy he made it because, you know, I knew about that stuff,
but like just the way he lays it out, like the timeline and how they kind of rolled out like the mass rape claims kind of a few months in
when people were like really becoming horrified by what Israel was doing.
That's right.
Everyone remember the name Jeffrey Gettleman.
He's the fraud at the New York Times who made his career justifying George W.
Bush's aggressive war against Somalia with his lies.
And then here on a massive front page story at the New York Times, which then becomes, oh,
even the New York Times says or whatever, even though it's the worst Zionist rag in America,
this side of Fox News.
And that was what everybody cited.
And Max Blumenthal just absolutely debunks Jeffrey Gettleman's total fraud in the New York
Times absolute lies about this mass rape campaign.
And seriously, like whatever.
It's not a matter of apologizing for Hamas.
It's just a matter of saying the Israelis are liars and they make up lies.
If they made up a lie about someone that you already hate doesn't make it true.
And they went on to basically do all the things that they accused Hamas of killing.
I mean, again, the numbers are just completely astronomical compared to October 7th.
But I mean, the brutality, the pictures and images we see from the airstrikes on the children and babies being killed.
Tens of thousands of babies killed.
Tens of thousands of babies torn to shreds.
And every single American doctor, well, at least every single one that signed this
recent letter to President Biden, it was 99 American healthcare workers who volunteered
in Gaza.
Every one of them said that they saw on a regular basis children, pre-teen children, with
gunshot wounds to the head.
So it's not just the airstrikes.
It's also IDF soldiers shooting children in the head.
Yep. Deliberately, of course. And I mentioned the Air Wars study. This is very important. These guys, you know, I know Chris Wood, I don't know if he's still there anymore. The founder of it did great work on Pakistan drone strikes back in early Obama. It was a great guy. He founded Air Wars. And they've worked with Belling Cat, which is very suspicious to me. But, man, they came out with this really great report yesterday where they went and pinpointed with their geolocation techniques and all this. And they showed.
where the Israelis were killing civilians
and claiming falsely
that they were killing Hamas terrorists.
And they proved it beyond any shadow of a doubt
with math and science.
And it's all at airwors.org
and people can go and look at it.
They show all their work.
This is how we know who died there that day.
And this is how we know
that they were lying
when they claimed that it was a bad guy.
You know, it's basically beyond dispute.
It's all there, you know.
It's really frustrating me to hear people talk about this war
and not know anything about it
when all they have to do is look at anti-war.com
where Dave DeCamp is our news editor.
He's on top of this stuff for you all day, every day.
There's no need to be out of date on what you think might be happening over there.
And yeah, it's bad news, but you can take it.
Think about what they're going through.
You just got to read about it.
And it's important that we bear witness to this.
and it's important because we got to be the ones who told you so after the next massive terrorist attack comes
and they try to blame it on Mohammed and Islam instead of Israel creating enemies for the United States
just like it was 25 years ago so yeah and it's it's good to have a record you know sometimes
especially when I do my show because when I do my show it's basically just a rundown of all the stuff I wrote that day
and lately it's been really depressing I mean just horror horrible stuff.
story after horrible story, but, you know, we got to have a record of this stuff and just to
know what they're doing. It can be a little disheartening sometimes, but especially now,
like just this phase right now with most of the country focused on the election, someone's got
to be, you know, tracking this stuff. That's right. Well, that's the job and you're great at it.
Thank you so much, Dave for your time. Thanks, Scott.
All right you guys, that's Dave DeCamp. He's our news editor at anti-war.com and check out his great
podcast, Anti-War News. And that's Anti-War Radio.
for this week. I'm your host, Scott Horton. I'm here every Thursday from 2.30 to 3 on KPFK,
90.7 FM in L.A. See you next week.