Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 10/14/21 James Bradley on the Lies Americans Are Fed About China

Episode Date: October 16, 2021

Scott is joined by author James Bradley. They discuss how foolish the Russiagate story was from the beginning before getting into China. Bradley explains how the entire American understanding of China is flawed. That the average American’s perception of China is the result of a mirage or fictional narrative we’ve been fed for many decades. Bradley argues that no rational look at China makes them out to be the threat they’re portrayed to be. And that, instead, the greatest threat comes from the American aggression that results from these false stories.  Discussed on the show: Scott’s interview with Jeffery Carr - July 2016 “Konstantin Kilimnik, Russiagate's Last Fall Guy, Speaks Out” (TK News) James Bradley is the author of Flags of Our Fathers, Flyboys, The China Mirage, and many others. He hosts the podcast, Untold Pacific. Follow him on Twitter @jamesjbradley. This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State and Why The Vietnam War?, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; EasyShip; Dröm; Free Range Feeder; Thc Hemp Spot; Green Mill Supercritical; Bug-A-Salt; Lorenzotti Coffee and Listen and Think Audio. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show. I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of anti-war.com, author of the book, Fool's Aaron, time to end the war in Afghanistan, and the brand new, enough already, time to end the war on terrorism. And I've recorded more the 5,500 interviews since 2000. Almost all on foreign policy and all available for you at Scott Horton.4. You can sign up to the podcast feed there, and the full interview archive is also available at YouTube.com slash Scott Horton's show. All right, you guys, introducing James Bradley.

You're all familiar with him. He's most famous for writing the book, The Flags of Our Fathers, not the, just Flags of Our Fathers, which was turned into a Clint Eastwood movie. of course. And his most recent book is The China Mirage, the recent history of American disaster in Asia. And he's got a podcast all about, called the Untold Pacific at Untoldpacific.com. Sorry, I didn't get a chance to listen to some of these episodes. Oh, look, an interview with Gareth Porter. What a great podcast this must be. Welcome back to the show, James. How are you doing? good to be here Scott

great to talk to you again as everyone knows I am the greatest Gareth Porter fan in the whole world so anybody else who likes him must be smart I think that's kind of how that goes well you know he was good friends with the Fred Bronfman group Noam Chomsky

and I knew those guys have a lot of respect for Gareth Porter yeah man of course good old Fred Bronfman too I guess he died a few years ago but I had interviewed him a couple of times. These are the guys who told the truth about Vietnam back when, some of them. Well, you know, Fred exposed the secret bombing of Laos specifically. And then he, I don't know if people realize this, he went on national news. They interviewed him. He showed his drawings.

America knew about it. And then America turned the channel and did not care that we were bombing. you know i uh fred sent me out to laos i looked around about 35% of the country is still full of american bombs so you walk on a path it says you can walk on this path don't step off you know you might blow up there might be a 500 pound bomb we don't know yeah hey that's no lie and and by bombs i mean a lot of the times that means cluster bombs so little kids pick them up you know oh what's this doesn't look like a big explosive you can hold it in your hand right doesn't it's not an obvious like shell from a howitzer or you know bomb-shaped bomb you know drop from a plane looks like they call them bombies yeah they call them bombies right and uh so i went into this lausian village

with my interpreter and the first house we saw a woman was knitting on her porch and uh we walked up to her And I said, excuse me, ma'am, do you know of anyone who's been injured by American munitions? This was in 2017. And then she pulled open her dress and she, and it was bloody. She had something had exploded in her garden the day before. Anyway, it was like 600 a year. We're deep into Laos. Right.

Yeah, people, like, I think it's like 600 a year. I interviewed experts who had done a documentary about this. back years ago. Oh, man, I'm sorry. The name of the documentary is escaping me. But, you know, you say, I mean, I was living in Vietnam for seven years recently. And so I'm interviewing this guy out on a farm, and then you have to take a taxi and turn at this one corner.

So let's call it the one corner. At the one corner, there was a farmer with two kids and his wife, and he took his hoe every day, and he put the hole in the ground. So one morning he woke up, and it rained. And he put his hole in the ground and a 200-pound bomb went off. And the kids picked the body parts out of the trees. And we helped them with school fees and things like, I mean, it's happening, you know, right now when we leave these little calling cards all over the world. I'll tell you what.

Hey, listen, as long as we're on this subject, might as well bring up that there's this thing which I forgot which documentary it was again. Different one. but they have drones now that are sophisticated enough that they can fly around they can detect these undettonated bombs and then they can drop a tiny little shape charge on top

fly a safe distance away and detonate it and in fact it's all completely automated they don't even need a human person doing all the controlling and they could conceivably and I mean they are already setting these out in small numbers but you know if the world empire

wasn't busy patrol the entire planet, and maybe their job was just cleaning up their messes from recent history. This seems like the kind of job for the U.S. military, to send to Laos an invading horde of robots whose only job it is to go around detecting metal and dropping little shape charges on it and detonating these bombs, allowing people to clean up, you know, the aftermath of detonated explosives instead of hot explosives. You know, people die trying to clean. clean up all the landmines and all the undettonated bombs to protect their people. But, you know, you could have the robots take all the risk.

And it's already proven technology. They've already done it. And in terms of, like, the real cost compared to the Pentagon budget or whatever, a couple of billion dollars. And you could make a major difference in cleaning up the mess left behind. And all three of those nations, you know, involve that Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam. But there's no priority behind it. Like you said, people turned the channel back then when it was happening live.

Somebody really gives a damn now, you know. But, Scott, Empire means you never have to say you're sorry. You know the story of Norman Solomon going to the Washington Post and asking him, did they ever retract the Tonkin Gulf situation, which never happened. But the Washington Post reported that it did happen. And he said, you know, did you retract it? Like you would in an auto accident, you reported the incorrect. and an editor looked at them and said if we retracted that,

we'd have to retract 11 years of reporting. Yep. And we don't do that. Empire is never saying, you know, Russia, Russia, Russia, they won a Pulitzer and, you know what I mean? Isn't that funny? I mean, seriously, it was funny at the time, but it's even funnier now.

When in Pulitzer Prizes for Russiagate, when not one iota of that garbage held up, not one bit of it. Can I, can I tell you a personal story about that, Rush? I mean, I don't know. Absolutely. Go right ahead. Floor's yours, man.

China? Yeah. Okay, Russia, Russia. So you know Ray, the great, let's put our hands together for Ray McGovern. Ray McGovern, X-C-I-A. Absolutely. So you know Ray, right? Very good friend for 15 years now.

So I published a book in 2015 called The China Mirage, which is about how Time Magazine, Washington Post, New York Times. blah, blah, blah, fooled the American public about China, China, China, right? And it's published 2015. I don't have the next book to write. And then I hear about the wonderful three-p scandal, Putin, P, and Prostitutes.

And I'm thinking, man, James Bradley, you know, Putin Pee and prostitutes in the Moscow-Rits Carlton, this is great. And I knew George Herbert Walker Bush, who had been briefed by Ray McGovern when he was CIA. So I thought, well, good enough for the White House, good enough for me. So I fly down to Washington.

I had this thing that Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein never figured out. It's called GPS. And then I got to Ray's house. And then I did something that Judy Woodruff and the New York Times, Washington, nobody could do this. I brought some paper and pen into Ray's house. And Ray said, this Putin-Pi prostitute thing, is a Hillary scan, a Hillary thing made up in lawyers' offices. So I'm like looking at the cover of newspapers, you know, Trump has an alpha bank server in the Trump

tower and it's connected to Putin's bedroom and they're sharing, you know. And I'm like, Ray, this is just all made up. He's all made up. So I said, I need a second opinion. So Ray has me go to Moscow. And I go talk to people. I go into the Ritz Carlton, talk to the employees. I say back to America, there is no pee in the Moscow Ritz Carlton.

Sorry, it is just bullshit. And then I spend the next four years, I had to travel a lot around the world, listening to people tell me fables. You know, university presidents, tycoons in Hong Kong, Japanese businessmen, Texas heads of universities, telling me fables that were written in a lawyer's conference room. And in 2016, Ray and the great Bill Binney had proven that this is all baloney. And, you know, it got so bad. I was at an investor conference in Kuala Lumpur in 2019. And a speaker said, folks, if you go to America, go to Disneyland and watch the people coming in.

All the kids believe in Cinderella. and 60% of the adults believe in a Russian fable. You know? I mean, that was a strange part of my life. I was involved. You know, not, I mean, not central, but I was there at Ray's kitchen table. I went to Moscow, figured out it was bullshit. And then I thought that would be it.

It would just fall away. But Jake Sullivan, the current national security, what is he? yeah national security advisor national security advisor if you want to okay I want to work for Jake and then when he he interviews me I have to say Jake I understand

that Trump had an alpha server server in the Trump tower connected to Alpha Bank in Moscow because that's what you said for Hillary Clinton I have it right here in print so I believe that too Jake I think Putin you know was in the underwear you're telling me you said that to him

no I'm saying, look at this is the world we live in. If you want a job with this creature, with this cretan, with this pinhead who just blew Kabul, you've got us, hey, Jake, I guess, Elfab. I mean, he was making up lies for Hillary Clinton. I'm sure, I mean, I've got the tweets right here if you want me to read him. Well, I have to tell you, I mean, you know, me and my group, we're libertarians, so we're nonpartisans, right? but just, you know, and I have, you know, leftist and right-wing friends, too, who are just, they're not partisan types.

And so many of us saw right through this from the very, very beginning. I mean, if you go back to 2016, on April Glaspby Day, July 25th, I interviewed a computer security expert named Jeffrey Carr, who explained that no one can forensically examine a server and tell you exactly who hacked it. that's not how it works man but there is one group of people in the world and only one who can tell you exactly who hacked what and that's the NSA because they can rewind the whole damn internet if they want and go back

and watch any packet and wherever it went and no problem but they're the only ones who can and they can tell you with 100% confidence who did what but nobody else can tell you anything certainly not crowd strike looking at a server after the fact and examining it and telling you

what the what so you know And then there are all kinds of great leftists who from the very beginning, like Ray McGovern, he's not really a leftist, but he's certainly no Trump Republican. He, you know, he's a vowed to me that he thinks that Trump is the very worst Republican ever simply for his refugee policy, if for no other reason, for religious reasons. Ray is like, this guy is a monster, but he's not a Russian monster, for God's sake. And just going through, you know, I'm sure people may have seen. the spotlight actually today on anti-war.com is Matt Taiibi's new piece where he, like only Aaron Mote

before him, went and actually interviewed this guy who of course his name is on the tongue. I'm sorry? Yeah, no, I've seen it. I know the article you're referring to. All right, now I got it's name. You pronounce it.

You pronounce it. I'm not going to pronounce it. No, oh yeah, that's what is. It's not that I forgot it's I forgot how to pronounce it. Calimnic. This is his name, Calimnik. Constantine Calimnik. This is the guy. God bless you.

Another, yeah, exactly. This is, you know, one of the many that they hung the whole thing on is, you know, this is the guy who was the go-between with Manafort and the Russians. And it was a total lie. The guy worked for John McCain for years. We knew that all along. He worked at the Republican National Institute or International Institute thing. And anyway, so, you know, Taibi's always been really great on this. And he does go through and mention the major accusations that the story hinged on,

such as against Sessions and against Flynn and the Trump Tower meeting and, you know, all of these things. The bigger accusations, I guess along with the Alpha Bank thing, which I thought was more of a lower level, dumber one, but either way. And just showed how there was nothing to any of it at all. There just never was. Like, the worst you could say is that Trump Jr. was dumb enough to hope that he was going to get something from someone connected to the Russian government. But he never did. So, that's it. Scott, can I go back to what, you know, I mean, how I started?

I finished this book in 2015, and it's about this. It's, see, Trump, Biden, FDR, LBJ, I'm not political. I'm a historian. So whoever wins, I got to say, this guy won and then who loses. You know what I mean? So, I mean, I finish a book on China, and it's China, China, China, China. FDR spent more money on Chankai Czech, the Christian dictator than he did on the atom bomb. FDR was out in public saying that China, the Chankai Czech who slept on top of, you know, torture cells, you know, was a great liberty guy, a China's a democracy.

Pearl Buck, number one author of the 1930s, The Good Earth, two years in a row, number one New York Times, only author to do that. She's lying for this Christian dictator to the American public. Henry Luce hired, remember Teddy White who wrote The Making of the President in 1960 and he was a great journalist, Teddy White? Teddy White in my book talks about how he worked for Chianghai Czech and made up battles. he made up whole battles out of whole cloth things that never happened writing them in the time magazine gee henry loose loved teddy he hired him he was a propagandist for so we've been through this before the china china china thing that i documented my book i call it a mirage because i was flying between the united states and china researching and i realized everything that really happened in

china didn't get to the states and everything the states read i'm talking new york times statesmen, senators debating facts on the floor of the Senate didn't exist. It was propaganda. It was just, you know, you go to China and it was different. And we have this same mirage that's being presented to the American public regarding China, China, China. We just finished Russia, Russia, Russia. I mean, you're really honest something here. I mean, I think, isn't it the case, too, that, like, go back to World War II, where Winston Churchill and FDR, they're just W. Bush and Tony Blair.

they're just a couple of idiots making the same kinds of mistakes telling the same kind of lies it's the same thing over and over again see i think people don't they're not really critical about the stuff that happened before we were born you know what i mean all that is in black and white all that is engraved in the stone of history right that's over whereas it's a little bit different when you're in the obama era and the lies about liby are still ringing in your ear kind of thing you know but it always is like this you know all the way back right all of these guys and all of their stupid wars are based on the same kind of lies from you know uh mexican troops on the wrong side of the san jaceno river all the way through you know weapons of mass destruction and Assad gassing his own people and on and on you know that that was james if your listeners don't know what you're referred to, the Mexican troops. So President James Polk wanted to get a bunch of land. He's the number one land acquirer in American history. You know, he got little things like, let's see, California, you know, huge pieces of land, Mexican war. Okay, but what Scott is referring to is that he did a brilliant maneuver that's been used. You know, they just rejiggered a border and then said, hey, we have American troops already. you know, fighting. We have to support the troops.

Yeah. Same thing every time. Support the troop. Yeah. And Congress is like, just a minute. What did you just do? You invaded a country and you're, no, no, just a minute. We're going to support the troops. It was brilliant and it's been going on since 1848. Yeah. Okay, hang on just one second. Hey, y'all, Scott here for easy ship.com. Man, who wants to use stamps.com? They're terrible. Their website is a disaster. I've been sending out tons of signed books to donors and friends lately, and it's clear. The only real alternative to standing in line for the 1990s technology at the post office is

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Get the bug assault today. Just click the Amazon link in the right-hand margin at Scott Horton. dot org. In fact, you can do all of your Amazon shopping through that link, and the show will get a kickback from Amazon's end of the sale. Happy hunting. Hey, y'all, Scott here for Lorenzotti coffee. It's great stuff. It's actually how I'm conscious in recording this spot right now. You probably also like and need coffee. Well, Lorenzotti.comffee's got a great dark roast and these really cool grinders so you can brew it as fresh as possible. Here real soon, they're also going to have a nice medium roast and other options available. Check them out at Lorenzotti.comfee.

And use promo code Scott Horton.org to save 10%. They ship fast and it tastes great. Support good anti-government stimulant suppliers. Go to Lorenzotti.comfee today. All right. Now, so back to who lost China here. I mean, the problem is that Mao won it. And so you're saying the truth favors Mao say tongue, and that is bothersome.

Well, here, let's go back to the 19, early 30s. Mao beat Chang three times before the, uh, the Great March, but the U.S. kept pouring money into Chang. Mao should have taken over China in the 30s, but it was America who was giving Chiang Kai check the armaments. Anyone here of Afghanistan spending a lot of money on anyone here of South Vietnam? You know, people want to ignore that it was FDR for years and years and years who poured military money into the Christian dictator. The reasoning was, you know, the people around Chankai Czech were in the FTR administration telling them what every American

wants to hear. China wants to be just like you, Mr. President. Chankai Czech wants to be a Democrat like you. We want to have a new deal like you. And guess what? The Chinese people want to have potluck dinners on Sunday in Christian churches. I mean, it's unbelievable. And they just convinced the administration, you know, Roosevelt had never been to China. None of these guys had gone across the Pacific to China, but China was going to be just like America. And look in the book, I'm not making it up. FDR is saying, you know, they're going to replicate us. FDR made a stamp, a U.S. stamp that compared Lincoln to Sun Yat Sen. You know, San Yat Sen taking train rides with 30 little girls at a time, you know. He's the same as Abraham Lincoln, a U.S. stamp. People live. did put it on their postage, support China. After Pearl Harbor, two weeks after, they did a poll. Who's America's favorite ally? It was China because China wanted to be just like us. And Japan was the bad guy, but China was so wonderful. It was going to be Christian. Pearl Buck told us, missionaries, Henry Luce. So look at the names like General MacArthur, FDR, Winston,

Huge names. No, no, no, no, no. Time magazine. Who's the number one guy on the cover of Time magazine still today? Number one, Chang Kai, Jack. Because China's going to be Christian and then America's going to have this America loving thing out in Asia called China. I'm not kidding you. It's in the words. So what about the China lobby, though, that said that actually things weren't that bad until all the wimps at the State Department called off support for Shang and kind of turn everything over to Mount? That was certainly the narrative that. Okay.

Well, okay, now you're jumping to... 20 years of treason, man. You know, they turned all Eastern Europe over to Stalin. They turned over China to Mao and then on from there. Well, let me do that one quickly. It's in the book. So I was talking about the 1930s. Now Roosevelt dies in 45, and America still keeps pumping the civil war.

Millions didn't have to die. Mao had the upper hand, but Chang had just... like the Afghan army. He had this artificial American money and weapons to keep a false story going. And he was stealing. And I mean, it's the same as the, you know, the criminals in Afghanistan and the American criminals that abetted him. But anyway, Truman, you know, is stuck. He's got to support Chang. Mao finally rises. He should have rose, you know, a decade earlier. And this shocks the American public. Who lost China? Well, see, if the American public had been in China, they wouldn't have been surprised. Because the State Department was writing home, the Chinese people want Mao. It's not about

liking Mao. Mao is going to be the next emperor, and we better adjust. Well, FDR and Truman, you know, didn't want to adjust to that. Mao rises. The Americans are shocked. And then Joe McCarthy from Wisconsin, and where I'm from went to the same church as my mom and dad, Joe McCarthy, did. Joe McCarthy needed, you know, McCarthyism came out of China, not the USSR. McCarthy stood up and said, John's service of the State Department, I got this sheath of paper in my hands, but he only mentioned one guy. John's service talked him out. John service speaks Chinese, he works in the State Department, and he knows the leader of China. Oh, my God, let's crucify this guy. So they cleaned out the State Department so that in the 50s and early

60s, zero people spoke Chinese in the State Department. That was very important. Get rid of everybody who spoke Chinese. You met Mao Zetan? You know the leader of the largest country in the world, you're fired. China's this rock over here in the Pacific called Taiwan. You can help us negotiate with China. You're fired, you know, until when Nixon, when Mao allowed Nixon to come and pay homage, the Chinese invited John's service and all these guys who got fired. You know, they knew them and respected them. And they were truth tellers, but they all got shot. all right so we got a narrative now that says that essentially nixon screwed up and that actually communism is the best self-inflicted wound that you could hope on your enemy and they should

have left it at that and instead they encourage the right wing of the communist party to come to power and dang chopin declared to get riches glorious and milton friedman taught him about markets and stuff and so now uh the bet was in fact i heard uh bill crystal say recently i forget i don't think it was in the debate i think it was some the time we made a bet that if we helped china get rich that they'll also liberalize politically and you know have democracy and stuff like that and instead oops we just help this evil totalitarian state make more money and you know gain more resources and capital and now they're going to use it to take over the world and they threaten our friends in south korea and japan and on australia and

Vietnam where we get along really great with the Communist Party in Hanoi now and for that matter the Indians and everybody else and maybe the last few dictators were okay but this new guy he has this whole new aggressive policy and you know only weaklings and women and democrats are afraid to do the right thing to face down the rising Chinese dragon so what about all that Well, that's a recurring thing that I document in my book. It's always, let's just talk about the emperor, okay? Right now, you know, people see CP and communists. We're talking about China.

We're talking about Beijing. We're talking about one-time zone. We're talking about an emperor. And the, you know, I mean, the, who serves the emperor? Who, geez, I lost the name. Mandarin. And the Communist Party is 90 million. mandarin. I mean, it's an pretty old system, right, going back a few thousand years. And that's

what they're doing. Now, Bill Crystal said, what is the China Mirage? And this goes back to the 19th century. G, China's got to change because they use chopsticks and they don't know how to use ties. Hmm, who are they going to change like? The best people in the world, America, especially missionaries from the East Coast. And China's going to become Christian and potluck. suppers, and they must admire us for our democracy because they're so screwed up. And then we'll expose ourselves to them. They will change, and then we will have advantage so that the missionaries did that, and then they got disappointed, and then there was a reaction.

That was the FDR thing. We are just going to work with China, and they are absorbing our democracy. Chankajek wants to be like FDR. And then who lost China? oh gee we can't trust them anymore you know we tried to help them be just like us and they won't eat hamburgers they keep going back to being chinese god damn it yeah that's a bill crystal's talking about we opened up we said walmart i mean why you know if you meet a walmart executive of course you'd like to be like an american you know what i mean and then we brought these chinese

to steakhouses and taught them how to use knives and forks and then they continue to use choppsies. This, you know, they disappoint the hell out of us after we tried so hard. See, the assumption is they want to be just like us. History is moving across the Pacific and democracy is the, you're talking about China. It's an ancient situation. And it's different than the mirage that America is being presented with. And Taiwan is historically part of China. and I'm not pro-China. I'm not pro any centralized government where they're screwing around.

How about if you want to talk about democracy, how about Australia? I'm right next to Australia where they're beating everyone up, Tiananmen Square style. How's that democracy going in America? Americans want to defend democracy in Taiwan. Why don't you look at Chicago or St. Louis or Washington, D.C. Fences around the capital,

and mandates and what, you know? I mean, it just, it boggles my mind. My daughter lives in Taipei. When I turn on the American media, you know, there's a general saying that, you know, she's got like seconds to live, it sounds like. And then I call her in Taipei. It's her birthday today, you know, and she thinks the difference between Taiwan reuniting with China or not.

is like a different color ID pass. She's going to have the same clients, same apartment, same food, same street, same transportation. I call my friends in Hong Kong and I say, hey, the American media says that China came to Hong Kong, ate you, chewed you, took a toothpick, and then spit you out and threw you in the Hong Kong Bay.

And they're like, well, we're eating dumplings in the Bay area here in Hong Kong. They're knitted in it together with bridges and infrastructure. And we have more IPOs than, ever in business is great. So, you know, there's a mirage being presented that there's this huge conflict in the Pacific and as democracy versus, you know, well, General Keene was on Fox News and he let it slip.

Bill Hemmer says, oh, my God, China, World War III, four, five, six, all at once, what do we do? And General Keene said, retool. Well, I thought Retool. I'd love to Who? What are we going to read? Oh, I got it. The diplomatic solution to the Taiwan-China situation

is let's give money to the military industrial complex. I never thought of it. Yeah, you know, I was reading about the new nuclear subs replacing the French diesel subs for Australia. And they said, well, you know,

they won't be ready until 2050. And I'm going, wait a minute. You guys' policy is not, that we're going to figure out a way to get along with the Chinese sometimes in the next 30 years before these goddamn subs go online? Are you kidding me? But, you know, Michael Claire, K-L-A-R-E, who I interviewed on my podcast, he shows you that the civilian leadership of America, intergenerational, has decided in their crystal ball that conflict with China is a high,

probability and the military must prepare for it and we want forward deployment we'd rather fight you know out there than here it's still i hate to say it but that is embedded in the thinking of the whole structure so yeah and then preparation as scott horton knows better than anyone else preparation for war under clouds of fear is more profitable than war so we got to keep this china is going to eat everyone in Taiwan thing going in the American media and get that, you know, budget pumped up. Yeah. Well,

okay, Mr. Smart guy, there's got to be some kind of steel man argument here where like, yeah, no, but Z is worse than the previous guy, and what about these artificial reefs they're building, they're going to get in a fight with Japan over them or something? I don't know.

I know that I know a lot more about the Middle East, so I must be missing something really dangerous about Red China right now. come on okay again I'm not I mean the way you ask it is like I'm gonna defend and say no there's no problem I mean every cut big centralized country I mean we gotta watch out for look at Australia how about how about your government you know aren't aren't people aren't isn't your transportation system breaking down because of central government heaviness I mean so it's not just yeah okay but I mean

it's not just China. If I call Texas and talk to them about New York, the difference might be greater than, you know, New York to China. I mean, I don't know. But let's go back to Xi. Why are Americans talking about who's leading China? Why don't they talk about who's leading America? Figure that one out. Well, I guess the idea is that the last few guys were not too bad, but this guy's got this aggressive new policy thing. So what? But you're in a tiny little country. got 350 million people, you're brand new, and why, you know, just if we just begin to talk about it, like, I really am, you know, so what? It always has to end and we'll retool the military. Yeah.

Because the Chinese use chopsticks and they don't, and they're not the right color. And we, you know, we made laws so they couldn't marry our daughters. And we have testimony in the Senate that their brains can't absorb democracy. You know, we have a long history. of embedding in the American genes his hatred of Russia and China. Now, let's talk specifically about Taiwan. I'm sure your audience knows that Taiwan was under Chinese influence until the 1870s when an American general by the name of General Legendre, American General, the One Eye from the Civil War,

went over to the Meiji Emperor in Tokyo and said, hey, Meiji Emperor, you ever hear of Andrew Jackson? All you got to do is declare some people barbarians, and then you can militarily wipe them out and take the land. That's what Andrew Jackson did, and it's called civilization. Meiji made General Legendre's first foreign advisor, hired them, and they retooled an American ship, and they invaded Taiwan, 1870s. So this begins the story history of Taiwan under Japanese rule, 1945.

We napalm Japan to death and war ends, and then Taiwan's in our hands. We got it from Japan, the colonial, brutal masters of Taiwan. And then we take it and we give it to Chiang Kai Chak. So Ghani from Afghanistan fled to the Middle East, right? But back in Truman's Day, we gave Chiangchak a whole island and he stole China's gold. This is a criminal who lost the Civil War. took Taiwan and Taiwan's part of China. So we can talk all we want, but the Chinese, when they wake up in the morning, it's about 1.5 billion people. And the most uneducated or the most

educated, they can understand that Taiwan is Chinese. You know, and I'm not defending that. I'm not pushing that. I'm not like James is for China. No, Taiwan is Chinese. Korea is not. China's not going to step into Korea. Who invaded who? Japan invaded China. Who invaded who? Hey, you all. It's the digital age and dating is no exception. Well, Drum is a new values-based dating app. Pick deal breakers and deal makers to find like-minded people that care about the same core values as you. Drum can help you find your perfect match locally or anywhere in the world. And it's video only for more authenticity. free and available for Apple and Android phones and tablets. To install the app in your browser,

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backyard chickens. That's free rangefeeder.com slash Scott. Well, look, I mean, for 50 years, or at least since Carter, but I guess really since Nixon, right, the idea has been that America agrees that Taiwan is part of China, but the question is how are they to be reunified? Is it going to be a naval invasion or some kind of handshake? It seems to make a difference. It's going to be a naval invasion if the Americans don't get out of there and they need a war for their military industrial complex. I was in East Germany. I'm so old. I was in East Germany. A lot of tension. Nuclear tip tension, man. East Germany, West Germany, a wall, blah, blah, blah. Well, they reunited. No nuclear war. So Taiwan's like 25 million people. It's nothing. You know, it's not a big deal. Everyone can calm down. My daughter is going to eat noodles today in Taipei. You know? And see, America's being rattled by the aggressiveness of China. That's always the word. And I'm not defending China.

I don't like any country with an Air Force that can drop bombs on children. You know what I mean? Yeah. But listen. But listen, we put the United States Marines into Taiwan, didn't tell the American public. Well, guess what? Beijing has eyes. So they fly planes over.

We did it first. We put the troops in. These troops are aggressive. You know, they're Marines. They hit beaches, you know? I mean, my dad that was on I, well, Gime. I know a little about it. So we put the Marines in Taiwan, how stupid.

But we didn't report it. We just reported the aggressive Chinese flying over them. Well, let's balance it out. We put them in. You're not right. He's not right. You're not wrong. They're not wrong.

Although, you know, we should specify here, though, that, I mean, they did not break Taiwanese airspace in terms of, like, the 12-mile zone at all. It's just the air defense identification zone, which extends hundreds of miles. and is not a violation of their airspace, but more importantly, the American media just lied about that and conflate that with violating their airspace, which is an entirely different matter.

And it goes to show how quickly they could just ramp up fear. Oh, my God, look, China's making moves on Taiwan. I saw, you know, this guy, it sounds silly maybe, but the Dilbert cartoonist, Scott Adams, is a very influential guy among the Trump rights. And he said, the war is coming soon. Here it comes. it's breaking out because of this violation of the airspace that was not but can i can i say so

okay scott adams now there you know he's an intelligent guy whatever his positions are i'm not sure my point is scott is like you know the pearl bucks of the 1930s and the writer no almost all the writers about china they haven't been to china they don't speak chinese they haven't been in chinese homes. You know what I mean? And I'm not talking, you know, kindergarten patty cake. I'm, you know, I've been all over China. And it only means that you understand the mirage being presented to the United States. Scott, can I give you an example? Yeah. And I'd really like people to think about this. I think after the interview, they'll dismiss what I'm about to say because it's kind of strange to think about. But you saw the Ken Burns documentary on Vietnam, right? Yeah. And all the maps of

North and South Vietnam. And then Ken Burns said there was a country North Vietnam, South Vietnam. They had a civil war. And then I grew up in that era, you know, and I looked at all the maps in the New York Times and North Vietnam and the DMZ. And there was a border there. And this was a separate country and they had a separate flag and all this stuff. So as I told you, I walked around Vietnam for about seven years doing research. And I went up to the DMZ and I spent months there. Not a day, but I spent months there. And I talked to people around that border. And one guy, I have the interview, I could send it to you. He says, North and South Vietnam, we thought there was one to Vietnam. You never convinced us. This was the United Nations.

and drawings in the New York Times. But for there to be a border there, I need a visa to go see my uncle. My uncle is in a different... He's a North Vietnamese, and I'm going to say, we never had that conception, Mr. Bradley. You Americans have big imaginations.

So Ken Burns is spinning a civil war between two countries that the Vietnamese didn't think existed. This is how strange it is. The line of democracy with Taiwan, there's a wall of democracy unless this little island and we and nuclear

well folks I hate to tell you the U.S. Navy is up on charges for bribery, prostitutes all that fat Tony or whatever fat Thomas or that scandal how about the submarine that just collided underwater

Google US Navy mishaps they're not driving the ship straight something's wrong it's not the Navy that won Iwo Jima we got to watch out. We're 6,000 miles away debating who's the best ruler for China. It's

none of our business. And we got enough problems. We don't need a nuclear war to sort this out. East and West Germany did it. Yeah, well, I totally agree with that. And it's amazing the way that people in the opinion polls

and I know whatever regular people aren't the ones pulling the trigger so it sort of doesn't matter in a way kind of thing. It matters in a way that people say, yeah, we ought to nuke China. If China moves on Taiwan, absolutely we should go to war. It's like, yeah, but you know they have age bombs and missiles that can deliver them. Thank you, Bill Clinton. So that means stalemate, before we start, let's not start because they can destroy our entire civilization.

It only takes a couple of hundred nukes to destroy your entire civilization. I mean, I want to add to that, Scott, for your listeners, that people, I mean, I don't know, everything's a video game. The Russia, Russia, Russia might be true, might not, just let's go on with that. No, no, stop America. If you want to do this liberty thing, freedom, Taiwan, you don't even know where it is, then, you know, I've been all over Okinawa and seen the troops there, the Marines. You got to just evaporate them like in 30 seconds. They are toast, dust. 35,000 in Korea, you're going to start a war with China.

Guess what China is going to do. They're going to get rid of the Americans in Korea. Guam, just the whole thing's gone. You know, we're talking toast, so don't talk stupid. You know, talk about withdrawing a little bit back to Hawaii. China doesn't want to take California. Don't believe all that stuff. But Taiwan's part of China.

that's what the Americans have to realize they don't conceive of it as an invasion they conceive of it as you know i'm from wisconsin and the u p we called it the upper peninsula of michigan folks upper i know this far away for you sophisticated but the the u p we called it the upper peninsula they wanted to secede let's say they seceded you know america has a problem Canada grabbed it Well, for 200 years, Americans would, you know, we might fly airplanes over it saying, we need to reunite the U.P. with America. That's how they're looking at it. And so it gets reunited. And then what happens?

If any of your listeners would please write to me or call me about the danger my daughter's in in Taipei, I need to know. Well, I know when I talked to, I talked to Peter Van Buren. and who has been to China. He's the State Department official over there stationed in Japan and Korea for a long time. And he's like, China is not invading Taiwan.

They're just not. And get the hell out of here. You know, like Doug Bondo says, well, this is probably the greatest danger of a real war, like getting touched off here. It would be China moves on Taiwan. The Americans start talking tough,

losing aircraft carrier too, start escalating, you know, this kind of thing. But PVB is like, forget it. This isn't even going to happen anyway. So change the channel. It doesn't matter. It's like when we attacked Iraq because he was going to give nukes to Osama

to nuke our cities with except that actually at the time he was semi-retired and writing a romance novel according to his CIA interrogator John Nixon. And had no interest in attacking anyone, much less the

Americans. Well, you know, You know, John Pilger did the documentary, which I'm in, called The Coming War with China. And we are at war, information. I mean, we're at war every way except, you know, kinetic. And the statement that you just said, you know, no war, that's China's position. They want to reunite peacefully. The war card is America sending ships out into that area and being so bellicose.

it just makes sense if china shoved ships into the caribbean was poking in san francisco bay was up there in newfoundland coming down to main you know it's it's too much folks it's too much yeah we don't have to honor china love china but they're 1.5 billion people they you know they had some influence in that area for a few thousand years america got there just yesterday accidentally All this South China Sea Pacific stuff, again, let's look at history. In World War II, after World War II, Japan surrendered. The U.S. military controlled it all, and they drew lines. I said to an admiral, I'm not criticizing the American military for drawing those lines.

They were the victor, and they had to draw lines, but there was no China. China was having a civil war. So now all these lines that the Wall Street Journal, you know, this is crossed and this reef and this belongs. to Japan and that is an independent. Oh, oh, oh, that's all 1945 stuff when China didn't exist. China exists now. Why don't we sit at the table and talk to him? And the Admiral took a bite of his hors d'oeuvres and said, you know, if they cross a line, the President orders me, I got a goal. So I'm interested in the Japanese perspective on this or Japanese perspectives. I have a friend who lives there who told me, he said, so look at here, China, I mean,

pardon me, Japan divested from this gigantic fund in China. And, you know, I guess they're worried about financial problems there and whatever other things. And he said, you know, for whatever kind of fear-mongering about the rise of China, Japan knows how to deal with them. And the Japanese establishment, the government, the power elite there, they're not worried that China's coming. but then meanwhile we got joe biden i think it was just last week maybe it was two weeks ago i think it was just last week swore america to protect the senkaku islands that these are japanese islands even though they're uninhabited and that america would go to war with china to protect japan's claims to them

which you know i think okinawas already kind of occupied japanese you know occupied territory by the Japanese of other people anyway, but to pledge America to defend the Senkaku Island seems pretty provocative. And just like you were saying about putting the shoe on the other foot, if the Chinese were all up and down our Atlantic coast, or say they were like on the west coast of Mexico, claiming that they were protecting Mexico from American attack and building up their forces there, right, you know, off of San Diego, Americans would be absolutely losing their minds over it and threatening them that they better sail way to hell back the other side of Hawaii from here and right now, you know?

I mean, China could do, you know, just a week's worth of press about 500 January 6th protesters being held as political prisoners. We've got to invade the country. Look at the leadership and the economies falling apart and people protesting and they're not happy and the leadership only has 30% we got to China's got to take Catalina Island got to help out America and invade and you know the military answer is not the answer here there's only one quiver in the you know American deal let's get the military back to Hawaii and let's talk and stop this you know we own the South China Sea there's a name in the middle of that thing it's called

China. Yeah. I mean, what are we talking about? And then the South China Sea, that's where John McCain flew from. We projected power from this. What's the record of killing? Everyone's so worried about the world's going to fall apart, China running the South China Sea. Well, that's like Highway 95 in the United States. It's a highway for them. And they're not going to clog it up and choke people. You know, they have to do business. But what is the problem with the South China Sea? That's where John McCain flew from. That's where America put all those ships and killed three million Asians to insert democracy. So the record in the South China Sea so far is that China hasn't, you know, killed even 10,000 people. And it's a highway. And I'm not defending China. I'm just,

why does China have the right to talk about Joe Biden and invade or get involved in Canadian American disputes. You know, we'd say, get out of there. Get the ship out of Chesapeake Bay. So we're right on top of China. There could be an accident. The military experts, much brighter than me, who I interview, say that's their concern.

They're not concerned about China press and a button. They're concerned about an accident because there's so much stuff moving around. Now, we just had a nuclear submarine bump into something and we're not told what it is. We have major Navy ships that can't get into Asian harbors. You know, they make a mistake 20, 30 miles out. This is unbelievable that, you know, people look into it.

I'm just saying you don't have, the military out in the South China Sea is the military you had in Afghanistan. Look what happened. Yeah. Well. No, but the Japanese army, the Japanese military is trained by the same general failure. from the United States that trained the Vietnamese Army, that trained the Chiangai Czech's Chinese army, and they train the Afghan army.

So when are we going to wake up? We lost the Chinese Civil War to Mao. Korea, we lost a mile. Vietnam, we lost to Asia. We have expended tremendous amounts of blood trying to send the military to Asia. It doesn't work. Let's try another way. Yeah. You know, Daniel Davis has written at length about these red team exercises where the Navy admits that they lose a fight over Taiwan.

To boil it down, their supersonic sea skimming missiles have a greater range than our F-18s. And so that's it. Our aircraft carriers can't get close enough to strike without getting sunk themselves. And so game set match, it's already over for it starts. And you know very well that in the, before we started bombing Vietnam, the game said that, you know, it wouldn't work, then we bombed them. And then the game said it's not working. And so McNamara said bomb harder. You know, we knew that it's just, but dropping bombs, you know, I interviewed a guy in Laos and he had bomb fragments in his head and he had a, X-ray, and it was brilliant.

You could see right through his head with all these bomb fragments stuck in his head for his whole life. And I thought, you know, the U.S. at that point, they couldn't get a bull of a watch to this guy. They couldn't sell him a McDonald. You know what I mean? They couldn't make any money on this Laosch and sitting on his farm. But if you embed American metal, that had to be manufactured in America, put on a ship. You paid somebody to move the bomb. If it got to Laos, it probably went through three different countries.

You had to train the pilots, the fuel cost of fortune, the airplanes, Lockheed, you know what I mean? And then we got that, we got that metal into that Laotian's head. That guy couldn't afford a watch. It's a more efficient way of, you know, doing the economy to some people. Yeah, distributing that metal out to the world there for a price. Yeah, yeah, absolutely right. poor to buy a two four to buy a watch just you know meddle them in a different way yeah man all right well listen uh i can't wait to catch up on this podcast here this looks really great and consumers of

this show also like podcasts so i think they'll probably check it out too uh it's called untold pacific at untold pacific dot com and the book is the china mirage the hidden history of american disaster in Asia and check out also this interview in covert action quarterly on this same subject too some pretty good stuff here. Thanks very

much. Really appreciate you coming back on the show James. Well, I appreciate your listeners supporting the great Scott Horton who we need now more than ever. All right. Well, thanks. The Scott Horton Show, anti-war radio, can be heard on KPFK 90.7

FM in L.A. APSRadio.com, anti-war.com, scothorton.org, and libertarian institute.org.