Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 10/16/22 Katie Halper on how Speaking the Truth Got Her Fired

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

Scott interviews journalist and political commentator Katie Halper who just got fired from The Hill for calling Israel an apartheid state. Halper walks Scott through the timeline of events that resulted in her termination as well as what she was fired for saying. Halper and Scott also discuss what they see as the most important things for Americans to understand about the Israeli occupation of Palestine.  Discussed on the show: This is What Got Katie Halper Censored & Canceled By The Hill “Left-Wing Journalist Katie Halper Has Been Fired for Calling Israel an Apartheid State” (Jacobin) Katie Halper is a writer, podcast host and video correspondent. She hosts The Katie Halper Show, and co-hosts Useful Idiots with Matt Taibbi. This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State and Why The Vietnam War?, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; and Thc Hemp Spot. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, sorry, I don't mean to go all FDR on you or anything, but here's the new deal. All the interviews are now going up first at Scott Horton's show.substack.com. Of course, they'll all be going up at scothorton.org the next day, and the archives going back to 1999, we'll still be free for you there at scotthorton.org. But I got to generate revenue, you know. For Pacifica Radio, October 16th, 2000. I'm Scott Horton. This is Anti-War Radio.

All right. I'll welcome the show. It is Anti-War Radio. I'm your host, Scott Horton. I'm editorial director of anti-war.com, an editor of the new book, Hotter than the Sun. Time to abolish nuclear weapons.

Find my full interview. archive, sign up for the podcast, feed, and so forth at Scott Horton.org and at YouTube.com slash Scott Horton Show. All right, you guys, on the line, I've got Katie Halper. She is the host of the Katie Halper show, a live stream YouTube show podcast and WBAI radio show. That's Pacifica in New York City. And she is co-host of the YouTube show and podcast Useful Idiots, which she used to co-host

with Matt Taibi. but he's writing a book. So now Aaron Mote is a co-host of Useful Idiots, and she has written for The Nation, The Guardian, New York, Mag, and The Hill, and other places, too. Welcome to the show, Katie. How are you doing? Good. Thanks for having me. Happy to have you here. I haven't written for The Hill, by the way.

I used to appear on the Hill, which we can get into. Oh, there you. Yeah, well, that's our subject today is your relationship with the Hill. And what all is behind that? You made some very interesting and important news in the last couple of weeks here. And so I'm happy to have you on to catch up and especially hopefully to get any later developments in the story that maybe we don't know of. So, but it started with Congresswoman Rashida Talib had made a comment about the situation in Israel, Palestine, and got her in some hot water. And then you came to her defense and then all hell broke loose after that.

So can you go back and first of all talk about what it was that the congresswoman said that caused this whole thing to get started here? Sure, yeah. So she delivered some virtual remarks to a conference for justice for Palestine. And she said that people were realizing more and more that you couldn't be progressive except for in Palestine and that you couldn't be progressive and support Israel's apartheid government. And for those comments, she was smeared as an anti-Semite. or as saying anti-Semitic things. Jonathan Greenblatt from the Anti-Defamation League or ADL totally misrepresented what she said. He said that she had, you know,

implemented a litmus test for American Jews, had nothing to do with American Jews, what she had said. Debbie Wasserman Schultz tweeted about her, calling them nothing short of anti-Semitic. Jake Tapper did a segment on it, and he did one of those, some of her Jewish colleagues are saying it's anti-Semitic.

Semitic what she said. He likes to pick on Rashid Slab, Jake Tapper does. And so I wanted to defend her from what I thought were smears. So I made a video that both defended her from them and also laid out the case for why Israel is indeed an apartheid state. So I've been appearing on the Hill as a guest for about three years. Every week I would come on the show and do a segment on the media and politics. Then I had also started doing some guest co-hosting. And the hill, their thing is that they have one host from the left and one host from the right. So I was like the leftist host. I had done that about three times. The time I'm talking about was my fourth time and I had booked two other appearances. So I was actually supposed to be in, I was going to be in D.C.

this whole week because I was going to host this past Monday and next Monday. So when you're a host, you get to do these things called radars that are basically monologues. delivered straight to the camera and I decided that my monologue that I would do, my radar was going to be about Rashida Tlabe and the attacks against her and the controversy over whether or not Israel is an apartheid state. I should also add that Jonathan Greenblatt also said that Israel is not an apartheid state. That had happened the week before and so I decided to write my monologue about that, my radar about that. I made the case that it was an apartheid state by citing

international human rights organizations like Amnesty International Human Rights Watch. I cited Palestinian human rights organizations. I cited and quoted Betselem, which is an Israeli human rights organization. All of these places have said that Israel is an apartheid state. I looked at and quoted the United Nations and the International Criminal Court because apartheid is actually a crime in international law. And then I also cited and quoted Israeli official. who have said that Israel is either an apartheid state now or would become one, and this included Israeli prime ministers. A handful of them had said that.

And then I cited and quoted Nelson Mandela, Bishop Desmond Tutu, and Noletti Pandor, who is a current minister of foreign affairs for South Africa, who had recently said at the United Nations General Assembly that there is a growing mountain consensus that Israel was an apartheid state, And interestingly enough, in her address, she cited Daniel Levy, who was an Israeli negotiator during the Oslo peace talks, who himself had said that it's an apartheid state. And so I delivered my monologue. They filmed it. I did more hosting for that day and left.

And on my way out, I got a call from a producer saying, the higher-ups here saw the radar that you did on Israel and they don't want to run it. so we're not publishing it. And I was like, well, she said that she didn't know, but there was a new policy at the Hill where they no longer did op-eds, either written or video form, about Israel. So I thought that was kind of ridiculous, and I said, well, what if you run the radar or the monologue,

but you can have someone from an opposing, you know, with opposing view respond to it. You could have me talk about it with someone who disagrees or you could just have someone who disagrees. I was trying to be flexible because I really wanted to get it out there because I thought it was an important thing to say that was on a Monday and then by Wednesday I was still talking to the producers they were optimistic some kind of compromise could be met meaning we could somehow you know still run it maybe with someone

disagreeing afterwards okay then something that they had said by the way was that they couldn't do they weren't doing op-eds on Israel but you could do a segment on it a segment is what I would do every week as a guest that's considered a segment, for example. So they said that you could do those. That's what the producers understand it was. So then Wednesday afternoon, I get a call from the editor-in-chief of the Hill, and he said, we're not going to run the radar. And I said, okay, why? And he said, well, we got, we get lots of pitches all the time, and we don't take them. Now, that was just a bullshit response, because as anyone who works there will tell you, when you do one of these monologues, these radars, there's no editorial overview. You just literally email the team, your monologue, they load it into the teleprompter, and you then read it the next day.

And Ryan Grimm, who covered what happened for The Intercept, he himself used to be a host at the Hill. And he estimates that he did about, like, 150 of these radars and never had anyone looking. at it with any feedback. So I thought that was not a very sincere reason. Then the editor-in-chief, Bob Cusack, who called me, also told me that it wasn't in their sweet spot of coverage, which was domestic as opposed to international. That also did not ring true because, first of all, there's a domestic angle to this, because we're talking about Israel and the United States constantly brags that Israel's a special friend. But also, just because we were talking about Rashida's Slabe, but on top of that, I know as someone who's been both a guest and a host, that

international issues are frequently discussed on the show. I know that because I've discussed them. Another thing I want to add is that I had many times, as a guest, talked about Israel, so I really had no idea this was an off, out-of-bounds topic, because I had talked about Israel very critically. I had mentioned that they lied about killing Shrine Abouaclay. I had done a segment where I talked about Israel shuddering these human rights organizations. I'd done a segment about Israel bombing a cemetery where children were visiting their grandfather's grave. So this was not, I thought, a taboo subject at the hill. So the guy, when the editor-in-chief tells me they're not going to run the radar, I text the producers and say, okay, can I talk

about it during my segment tomorrow? I wasn't being like, I didn't think, I wasn't being cute about it or like defiant, my understanding was that Israel was not acceptable for op-eds, meaning written or video op-eds, but was for segments. So I asked if I could do that. Then they told me to check my email, and that's when I saw an email from an executive at the Hill who told me, we won't be needing you to do your segment tomorrow. Please send any unpaid invoices, best of luck. so that was it took them three days to end a three days of my trying to get a radar out there and being flexible they decided to just totally sever a three-year relationship that they had with me and I also want to add that I had pitched them a show that was like a leftist version of the view we actually shot a pilot for it

it was with me and Brianna Joy Gray Abby Martin Ranya Callick and not only had we yeah it would be great right and not only had we yeah it would be great right and not only had we shot the pilot they released a segment and did really well on youtube and they were excited about that they were going to show that edited pilot to the higher up so there was no problem you know with my work for the hill and then yeah and then this happened man so i'll tell you this is such a story and there's so many important things here but i want to say right now that people and this will be in the show notes and it's the video that you eventually did go ahead and release oh right sorry Yeah, let me just add one more thing, so then I went, I had, when I realized they weren't going to be, potentially weren't going to be running the video, I reached out to Ranya Callick at Breakthrough News and said, I have the script, she saw the script, she loved it, and then we decided once I was fired on Wednesday, because either way I was going to do the video, even if they weren't going to let me do it, I was going to do it with Breakthrough News, I decided. And so once they told me no on the video, and also, in addition, no more working with us.

then that was Wednesday, and we shot the video on Thursday. So you can find that at YouTube.com slash the Katie Halper Show and also at YouTube.com slash breakthrough news. And it's called, this is what got Katie Halper censored and canceled by the Hill. Israel is an apartheid state. So I want to get to that, actually, in a minute. But on the story of the censorship and this and that, I know you've been interviewed a few times,

and this is now a couple of weeks ago, the last week of September we're talking about here. So I wonder if the Hill has had any further comment from their son's story on this to anyone. No, they haven't given any comment. The only thing that they did comment on was, and we know this because Breonna Joy Gray, who's one of their left-wing hosts, she actually addressed this on the Hill. She decided to stay at the Hill, but she very strongly condemned their decision and kind of called bullshit on it. And she said that they said that they weren't going to run the radar for stylistic reasons,

which I don't think anyone believes. Does that mean they didn't like your hair? Yeah, I know, exactly. Yeah, they were fine with it. And my hair gets lots of positive feedback on YouTube, so... Your hair's great. For better or for worse. Sometimes it's annoying that it's a subject of discussion, but that's okay.

Better than everyone hates it. Yeah, totally, yeah. And, of course, the point here is just it's a poor excuse from them because they don't have another argument to use. Right. Now, what about the New York Times and the Washington Post? Because it's not like you're an A-list media figure, but you're like a strong C, at least. And the Hill is obviously very important. And so this is newsworthy.

There should have been a write-up in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and Washington Post. So how about that? Yeah, no, obviously not. I mean, there's been coverage of it from Fair, which is a great place that I've done a lot of writing for. They wrote it up. Juan Cole wrote it up, Common Dreams, Bob Shear at Shear Post, Mando, Weiss, which does great work. Of course.

And I've done some, a bunch of interviews. John Fugel sang, the most mainstream coverage I got was from John Fuglesang at Sirius XM, which was great. Yeah, that's good. Of course, the great Phil Weiss, you know, is like mentioning I am. Look, that's a real tragedy in itself right there. It's almost as bad as them firing you is the New York Times refusing to cover it. This deserves a few column inches, at least. Because, you know, you guys, as you said,

You know, when you're talking about the view there, you guys are leftist. You're a click to the left of the Democrats or something like that. But it's not like your fringe figures, you know what I mean? And the Hill itself, of course, is an important journalistic outlet that is, you know, if not at the center of a lot of attention. It's certainly within the peripheral vision of essentially all mainstream journalists, right? So there's nothing like too counterculture about them, the fact that they're willing to have people as far to the left as you guys

host their YouTube show and stuff like that and typically you know traditionally has been pretty brave of them but probably the bravest thing about them otherwise they're pretty conventional publication so right even if it wasn't you like if they just fired whoever over something like this it seems like that should be covered by the rest of the media too la time also covered it of course sorry I forgot them I'm sorry who the intercept Ryan Grimm

oh okay right right yeah I read his piece on And he had his own story to tell us you cited there, saying, hey, their story doesn't add up here, because trust me, I used to work there. Right, he knew from the inside of working there. And Bronco Marcha Teach did a great piece at Jacobin. It's called Left Wing journalist Katie Halper's been fired for calling Israel an apartheid state. And he goes through the fact that Next Star, so Next Star Media Group, Inc, bought the Hill for $130 million last August. And then in September, Sagot Value Holdings Limited and investment firm based in Tel Aviv bought

6,100 shares in Next Star for more than $1 million. Also, NextStar hired to be hired for the position of managing editor of News Nation, and that's its cable channel. They hired Jake Novak, who was a journalist who had worked right before coming to NextStar. He spent a year and a half as the media director of the Israeli Consulate General in New York. And he also has written approvingly of Trump's dropping of U.S. support for the two-state solution. And he even defended Israel's building of more settlements and actually said it would, quote, bring more peace, prosperity and freedom to both Israelis and Arabs. And quote, he also led a presentation at Barlan University called Defending Israel Against Media Bias, How to Fight News Media and Social Media, bias against Israel. The best defense is a good offense.

Yeah. That depends about right. Sorry, hang on just one second. Hey, guys, anybody who signs up to listen to this show by way of Patreon will be invited to join the Reddit group. And I'm going to start posting stuff over there more. That's patreon.com slash Scott Horton's show. Thanks. Hey, y'all, libertosbella.com is where you get Scott Horton's show and Libertarian Institute shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, and stickers and things, including the great top lobstas

designs as well. See, that way it says on your shirt, why you're so smart. Libertas Bella, from the same great folks who bring you ammo.com for all your ammunition needs too. That's Libertasbella.com. You guys check it out. This is so cool. The great Mike Swanson's new book is finally out. He's been working on this thing for years. And I admit, I haven't read it yet. I'm going to get to it as soon as I can, but I know you guys are going to want to beat me to it. It's called Why the Vietnam War? Nuclear bombs and nation building in Southeast Asia, 1945 through 61. And as he explains on the back here, all of our popular culture and our retellings and our history and our movies are all about the height of the American war there in, say, 1964 through 1974. But how do we get there? Why is this all Harry Truman's fault?

find out in why the Vietnam War by the great Mike Swanson available now. Well, and look, and this goes back to something that you said about Greenblatt before, and you said that he was misquoting Rashida Taleb there. Misrepresenting her, yeah. Yeah, in a sense, right, because what he was doing was he was begging the question and conflating some things, and essentially he said that she said that there's this litmus test for Jews. American Jews, yeah. Yeah, what he's trying to say there is he's trying to imply that all Jews are Zionists.

And then so therefore, what she's saying is you can't be a progressive if you're Jewish or unless you turn on your people or some kind of like. Right, which is, it's so funny because, yeah, I mean, an anti-send, the idea that all Jews are a monolith who support Israel is actually an anti-Semitic trope, but it's an anti-Semitic trope that the ADL and APEC are happy to, to traffic. Well, explain that. Explain what you mean by that. In other words, if somebody who really doesn't like Jews was saying the same thing, a radical right-winger, that would sound really bad. Yeah, exactly. So, right. In fact, lots of anti-Semites will call Jews Zionists. They'll conflate them as if we're all, and I should mention, I guess, and I'm Jewish, but they'll say, you know, the Zionist, this, the Zionist, that it's a shorthand for Jew when you're an anti-Semite, and it's also basically an implicit shorthand for Jew when you're a PAC person or ADL. But they have to suggest, because they can't really defend what Israel does, they have to suggest that being Jewish means being, Zionist and that criticizing Zionism is criticizing Jews or anti-Jewish. So if you're anti-Zionist, you're anti-Jewish. That's basically what their whole premise is. And that's a great way for people to be afraid to speak out about Israel because they don't want to be labeled an anti-Semite. I mean, I guess I have the luxury of being labeled a self-loathing Jew as opposed

to an anti-Semite, though I'm getting both labels thrown at me. But it is a scary thing, and we have to push back against this, the idea that all Jews are a monologna. that all Jews have the same position on Israel, you know, that dual loyalty trope is also based on that, the dual loyalty trope, that you're, that American Jews are going to be loyal to Israel, more loyal to Israel than they are to America, based on the same idea, that there's one Jewish opinion on Israel and it's supportive of Israel. Right. And the vast majority of American Jews in the polls say that Israel's not their priority at all. They're just Americans. Yeah. And A-PAC is just very powerful, but it doesn't

represent most Jews. And it's really shifting on the ground when you talk about younger Jews. Well, and, you know, it's funny because then, of course, as you're saying, you're a young Jewish leftist saying, hey, everybody, here's the situation. It's obviously not that you're a partisan for the Palestinian Muslims and Christians. If you're a partisan, I guess you'd probably side with the Zionists, but you're just a partisan for human rights, I guess. I mean, I would be, that's, I mean, I would I default kind of do side with the persecuted people of Palestine. I mean, I don't think it's, I'm not being like a traitor. I side with whoever is oppressed and, you know, I don't think all Israeli Jews are evil.

I think their government is. I mean, I think the United States government is too. But what stands out about Israel is Israel is a bit anachronistic in being a settler, colonial occupying force. So they just violate international law in particular ways. And, I mean, the United States does all the time, but it's not as apparent, honestly. Okay, so now let's get into this. Exactly what is it that you think Americans don't understand and need to understand about the situation there? Well, that it's an occupation.

Israel has constantly kind of dealt with the occupied territories as something that's temporary, but it's been there for decades now. Gaza is basically, it's been deemed an open-air concentration camp. Norman Finkelstein, whose parents are Holocaust survivors and were in concentration camps, has said that it is that it's a place where the Holocaust has really been weaponized, and I have family. I should point out also I have family in Israel and I have family who were killed in the Holocaust. And never again for me and my family and the type of left-wing Jewish kind of radicalism

that I'm my family is part of never again is about never again for anyone you know no no genocides no holocausts for anyone not just never again for Jews it's very it's pretty tragic and ironic that people who were almost eliminated went off and not all of them obviously because again not all Jews are Zionists most Jews aren't in Israel I mean most Jews aren't Zionists they founded a state on ethnic cleansing and again And most nations are formed that way. It's just that Israel was more recent and claims to be a democracy. Well, I've found that people essentially don't understand where the lines are and what they mean.

And as soon as they actually see who's occupying who and it makes sense, then like you just said, people side with the Palestinians because they're the ones who are being oppressed. Right. If you just are kind of exposed to talk radio news, you might think that the Palestinians had invaded from the country next door and were trying to extort land out of the poor Israelis and that, you know, with their terrorism and so forth. And why should the Israelis have to give up their land to these terrorists? It's terrible. Right. And they don't, people just don't understand that. These people aren't from the country next door.

They are being pushed out to next door from the land that they used to own. And I guess the real key in it is that after the 67 war, they did, I guess, cleanse 250,000 people, something like that. But they kept millions, right? Like in the 48 war, they cleansed so many people out. They had this 80, 20 super majority thing going on. But after the 67 war, essentially they kidnapped millions of Palestinians. And then they say, well, one day you'll have an independent state. But then now it's been 30 years of that.

And no, we don't, you know? And of course, Israel, I mean, have. the way that they divided up the the the land has made it very hard to have a two-state solution you know Zionists have have been the biggest like hurdle to a two-state solution well explain what you mean by that well with the West Bank and Gaza you know it's not it's not an easy two-state solution just because fit the geography of it they've made it pretty hard to do that they and so and that was intentional um Jeffrey Jeffrey Halper, no relation to me talks about this. No relation that we know of he's an American

Jew who actually lives in Israel and is part of the Coalition Against Housing Demolitions. You know, you also brought up there kind of by implication, the sort of cliche or the common understanding that, no, it's the Palestinians who are the biggest obstacle to getting their own state. It's funny that this is the trope. People really believe they're like, oh yeah, no, Israel handed an independent Palestinian state on a silver platter to yes or Arafat and he turned it down because the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And since that's a cute, clever thing to say, that means it's true. And we all repeat it over and over again. Yeah. No, and that's not true. And also the idea that Israel is this

always the liberal democracy. I mean, look at what happened to Yitzhak Rabin for the crime of trying to negotiate peace. He was executed. I mean, sorry, he was assassinated by a right-wing, rabid Jewish fundamentalist. And you know, the settlers there are just, it's really atrocious what's happening. You have people coming to Israel from Brooklyn, kicking out people who are there for generations, taking over Palestinian homes. Yeah. And I also want to just add that there is anti-Semitism in the world. We shouldn't pretend that there isn't. But what's scary is that places like the ADL and APEC are kind of both-sizing anti-Semitism. So you have people, you have right-wing white supremacists shooting up synagogues. And then the ADL's like, yeah, so we have that on the right,

but on the left, we have people who are engaging in BDS, boycott, divest sanction, which is not anti-Semitic, and it's a nonviolent form of resistance. But again, because they can flate Zionism with Jewishness, that's kind of all they have. And so they are the ones who are trivializing anti-Semitism. And by the way, yeah, one more thing back to what you said about the generational change there. This is something that Philip Weiss has been talking about for a very long time is, you know, the different attitudes within different sectors of different Jewish communities in America, you know. Yeah. So I wonder, you know, how that is in your world. Well, there are lots of, there are lots of, there's like Jewish Voice for Peace, if not now. These are organizations

that are Jewish and explicitly anti, you know, support Palestinian human rights. Yeah. So, and most of my friends, and my family definitely is like this, you know, shares my politics on this. And then is there really like a big difference between kind of reform synagogues versus Orthodox ones or Hasidic ones or it's really just hit or miss depending on where you go? You mean in terms of the politics on this issue? Yeah, and in terms of, what's interesting is that some Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionists because for them going back to Israel, they need like a signal from God, which is kind of funny to see the different religious breakdown. Of course, the biggest number of Zionists, most Zionists are Christian,

because there are so many more Christians in the world. And they're Christian Zionists who want Jews to go back to Israel and we either convert or we don't convert. And then either way, I think, only like 400 of us get saved and the rest of us burn for eternity in hell. Oh, that's really too bad. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, none of us want to die alone. But then again, I don't know about, you know, forcing the apocalypse to come sooner, is really, especially in these Biden times. I'm just not feeling it. I would rather dissuade. Yeah, I'm not pro-rapture. Hot take. You heard it here first. Hold your horses, man. Yeah. Speaking from one Jew to another, Jesus, please, please pause. Yeah. There you go. And, and yeah, it's interesting what you say about the very religious anti-Zionists who, you know, they really are.

committed, not just to their own beliefs on that, but in terms of justice for the Palestinians, too, right? From what I've seen of them, they seem to be very principled and very good people sticking up for the Palestinians. Yeah, I don't know how much it's, I honestly don't know enough about that. I don't know how much it's motivated by supportive Palestinians or a religious impulse to wait for God. I don't know. I don't know enough about it. I know that it's, but I guess I'm just talking about my impression from what I've seen is, you know, they're like, up at a rally that's being held by Palestinians for Palestinian rights, and they'll show up and say, yeah, we support them and that kind of thing, which is pretty great of them to do.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, listen, anyway, thank you so much again for sticking up for the Palestinians or sticking up for yourself here. Thanks a lot. Great stuff, Katie. One other thing, I just want to tell people next Tuesday, my guests are going to be

amazing guests, Nura Ericott and Miko Pellet. And Nora Erichot is this brilliant Palestinian-American human rights lawyer. And Miko Pelled is a fascinating figure. He's great. He wrote a book called The General Son in Israeli and Palestine. He is the son of a decorated Israeli general. Then on the other side of his family, his mother's father was signatory to Israeli independence. And he has become a one state advocate.

Tragically, his niece was killed in a suicide bombing. By the way, Nora's cousin was killed by Israeli forces. So both of them have been subjected to personal tragedy. And yet they both are, they keep on keeping on. So that's going to be a great show. That's really great. And you say that's this coming? Tuesday, yeah, 7 p.m. EST.

And you can also get bonus and extended coverage, extended interviews and bonus interviews and bonus episodes at patreon.com slash the Katie Helper show. I interviewed Kit Clarenberg this week about the bridge to Crimea and how British intelligence had done their own plan around that, around exploding it. Right, yep. Well, listen, yeah, we covered that at anti-war.com, and we covered. We ran Bronco March Teach's article about you and as much coverage as we could about this.

Anyway, thank you again for all of this. And everybody again, check Katie out at YouTube.com slash the Katie Halper show. Appreciate it. Thanks so much. All right, y'all, and that has been Anti-War Radio for this morning. Thanks very much for listening. I'm your host, Scott Horton. Find all the archives at

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