Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 10/27/22 Kyle Anzalone on Washington’s Incompetent Imperialism

Episode Date: October 30, 2022

Kyle Anzalone joins Scott this week on Antiwar Radio to provide a quick insight into the status of the American empire’s foreign adventurism. They first look to North Korea, where the Biden administration has reversed Trump’s policy of de-escalation and is instead undertaking nuclear brinksmanship for no good reason. Next, they turn to Taiwan and examine the push in Congress to abandon the stable status quo. They then look to Iran where the JCPOA is dead and Washington ineptly drives its enemies together in pursuit of world hegemony. They talk briefly about Yemen where the humanitarian crisis is picking back up post-ceasefire. Finally, they look to Ukraine where both sides are gearing up for a battle over the southern city of Kherson.  Discussed on the show: “Sanctions Relief and the 'Defensive Crouch'” (Substack) “Yemen facing worst food crisis in four years” (The Cradle) 1833stopwar.com  Kyle Anzalone is news editor of the Libertarian Institute, opinion editor of Antiwar.com and co-host of Conflicts of Interest with Will Porter and Connor Freeman. Follow him on Twitter @KyleAnzalone_ This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State and Why The Vietnam War?, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; and Thc Hemp Spot. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Scott Horton comedy. That's right, I'm doing an event with Robbie the Fire Bernstein here in Austin on the 5th of November as part of Robbie's porch tour. It's kind of an audition, actually. I'm trying to get the job to replace Dave Smith as Rob's sidekick. So show up and pretend to laugh at my awesome, hilarious comedy jokes. Robbie and another dude are also doing stand-up. Then Robbie and I are going to do a live podcast about libertarian themes and Star Wars and things. That's November the 5th.

Go to thefireticks.com to find out all about it. For Pacifica Radio, October the 30th, 2022. I'm Scott Horton. This is Anti-War Radio. All right, y'all, welcome the show. I'm your host, Scott Horton. I'm the editorial director of anti-war.com, and I'm the editor of the news.

book, Hotter Than the Sun. Time to abolish nuclear weapons. You'll find my full interview archive, almost 5,800 of them now, going back to 2003 at Scott Horton.org and on all the video sites, except YouTube, the censorers. No, they're still on there, too.

And you can follow me on Twitter at Scott Horton's show. All right, introducing today's guest. It's our opinion editor at anti-war.com, but he's much more than that. he's also a host of conflicts of interest and a brilliant foreign policy writer and analyst the great Kyle Ansela and welcome back to the show Kyle how you doing great thanks so much for me back on Scott I really appreciate you joining us today and I appreciate all the hard work that you're doing keeping up with all of the bad news for us at antiwar dot com so you know what I don't

even know where to begin there's so much going on you want to start in the Pacific this week sure that's good with me I'm just throwing darts at a map but we got threats of war with North Korea with China with Iran with Russia and I don't know

maybe Mexico again I don't know why not but so can we start with Korea see if you can get us up to date on what's going on with the missile tests and all the threats back and forth there yeah so since Biden has taken office he's abandoned the

Trump administration's policy of reaching out and trying to engage in talks with North Korea. And this has also been compounded in South Korea because for several years, Moon Jae-N was the president who was a true believer in inter-Korean peace. And I think tried much, much harder than Trump or even Ken Jong-Gun to try to come to some kind of agreement during the Trump administration. And he was replaced by a more hawkish president in South Korea. And so combined with the Biden administration, who he claims that he claims that he, he's isn't engaging in the Biden administration policy of strategic patients.

But that is de facto, the Biden administration policy. They are saying that North Korea has to commit to denuclearization in September, right at the end of the month, Vice President Kamala Harris traveled to the demilitarized zone where she condemned the North Korean government and talked about how terrible Kim Jong-gun is and then said that, you know, we need to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula, all while extending America's nuclear umbrella over South Korea. So, of course, that doesn't, you know, work very well from the North Korean perspective. They really don't like this.

And so in September, we had the North Koreans announce a new nuclear policy that said that they will keep their nuclear weapons as long as there are nuclear weapons in the world. And America is an imperial empire. They really see their nuclear arsenal as being really important to deter the Americans. and they've conducted several missile tests this year and have claimed to make some upgrades. They said they tested a new intermediate range missile. They fired that missile over Japanese territory. It was the first time that the North Koreans fired a missile over Japan since 2017.

They tested an intercontinental ballistic missile. That was back in the spring, but that again was the first time that it happened since 2017. from the America and South Korean side, they carried out live, fire, war games for the first time since 2017. And then the U.S. Ronald Reagan went to North Korea, our South Korea waters and made a port call there. And that was the first time that had happened since 2018. And so we've really abandoned the Trump-era policies that de-escalate the situation on the Korean Peninsula quite a bit. And, you know, we did see some demilitarization. There were several defense posts on each side of the DMZ that were dismantled and destroyed during that time.

North Korea dismantled one. Their nuclear testing size, a missile testing facility. And so all that has now been undone. For six months now, West has been warning that North Korea is going to test a nuclear weapon. They reissued those warnings this week. I have no idea if North Korea is really plenty of nuclear weapons test. or not. I guess I'm kind of starting to doubt it since, you know, the West has been predicting for so long. But with the height military tensions, maybe it is coming. A couple other noteworthy

things, Scott, was North Korea carried out some aerial drills that came close to the South Korean border. This is a little bit less typical than their missile tests. And then there was an exchange of warning shots along the Marine Time border in the Yellow Sea between North and South Korea. Although I think a part of that was due to that border is just kind of building. defined and where ships, you know, can actually go as isn't quite set in stone. Yeah. All right. Well, it is Antil War Radio. That's the great Kyle Anzalone. And I have to admit, you guys all know this about me, the nature of my disorder. To me, it's always 2002. And I have to bring up that it was right around this time, 2002, that John Bolton in the lead working for Bush and Cheney,

broke the agreed framework deal that Bill Clinton's government had worked out with the North Koreans, which they had never actually lived up to, but still hadn't outright broken. And the Bush government, led by Bolton, broke the deal, announced new sanctions, announced the proliferation security initiative, which was their unilateral claimed right to seize North Korean boats on the high seas, and in the name of non-proliferation. And then they named them in the nuclear. posture of view as on the list for a potential first strike and only then did kim jung ill announced that he was withdrawing from the nonproliferation treaty kicked the inspectors out of the

country and restart his old Soviet era reactor from which he harvested all the plutonium that they have used in all of their nuclear tests since then the uranium program that bolton accused them of having in order to break the deal has never surfaced this whole time They've gotten all their plutonium from their old Soviet-built Yang-Bion reactor, and everybody knows it. And so this is all George W. Bush and John Bolton's fault that North Korea even has nuclear weapons in the first place. And then, of course, as you say, strategic patience, they call it, that is W. Bush and Barack Obama and Joe Biden. And it's true. Look, nobody likes giving Trump credit, but credit where it's due.

He did not agree with this same policy. everybody else's policy has been the North Koreans have to give up all of their nukes first and only then will we talk with them about anything and the North Koreans the previous South Korean government had come to Donald Trump

and said hey will you please let us try to work this out and Trump saw an opportunity to burnish his own image and said sure go ahead and his diplomacy was a wreck and of course what happened at the end Kyle he brought Sean Bolton with him

to come and negotiate and let him sit at the table in the seat that Stephen Began should have been sitting in to make the deal. And the great advent of the Trump era was we're saying, we're no longer saying you have to disarm before we talk about any other thing, which is, of course, a non-starter. And then, but he didn't see it through. And so now here we are right back to the George W. Bush status quo under Joe Biden, which is nuclear brinksmanship with this weak country for no good reason, really.

Right. No, great points. And then, you know, one of the most recent articles I have that this one was, I wrote the Libertarian Institute, Scott, was that Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman was in the Pacific this week. And she declared that Washington will use the full range of its defense capabilities to defend our allies, including nuclear, conventional, and missile defense capabilities. And she made these statements with the South Korean and Japanese officials. And this is a little bit of a new thing during the Biden administration is it's becoming far more of a trilateral military bloc, the U.S., South Korea, and Japan. And this was somewhat formalized in June on the sidelines of the NATO summit in Madrid, the U.S., South Korea, and Japan signed an agreement to step up military ties. And we've already seen a couple trilateral military drills happen in South Korea, or North Korea, excuse me, has to now. announced that agreement as Washington attempting to create a NATO-like alliance in the Pacific. And so, you know, I'm thinking that especially due to the, you know, it wasn't that long ago that Imperial Japan ruled over all of Korea and those legacy of human rights abuses, I'm sure that, you know, this is creating a lot of concern in North Korea.

All right. Now let's switch to Taiwan. I know there's big news. They held the big Communist Party central committee rally non-change of power in Beijing. And I know that they mentioned Taiwan policy in Chairman She's new statement and all of that. And so what does that have to do with anything? Tell me. Well, it seems like Beijing is still status quo on China, despite all of what the U.S. is saying. You know, they prefer peaceful reunification. But, you know, if there's too much outside and

interference. If Taiwan declares independence, then they're going to, you know, made some kind of stronger move. I think a lot of what the developments were actually seeing, Scott, are in Washington where Congress is talking about sticking, I think, $10 billion in military aid that will take place over the course of five years for Taiwan. And Dave DeKamp has been covering a lot of the Taiwan stuff at anti-war.com. I think that's probably the biggest thing coming up is that military aid package, which I guess will put Taiwan third on the list behind Ukraine and Israel for the most military aid. But yeah, it's getting to be a lot. And then they also signed a new agreement to maintain Taiwan's Patriot Missile Systems pretty recently. And now, do they pass the new

Taiwan, whatever you call it, act that were they're basically recategorizing all of their relations with Taiwan to make it sound more like they're a country? They're not. They're officially calling it an embassy instead of a consulate and they're officially calling them, you know, or essentially referring to them as a country in their documents now and all of that stepped up stuff. Now, I believe all that is in the 23 National Defense Authorization Act, which hasn't been passed yet, but as typically happens. Right. You know, everybody stits amendments into that legislation, though, because it, you know, by the Washington standards, Scott, it has to pass. And so because of that, you could put anything into that bill and it'll end up

into law. And I believe in there, they said this would designate Taiwan as an official non-NATO ally. Yes. Yeah. That would be the big status change. And there has been, I don't know, the president has said that he has some issues like with Nancy Pelosi going to China. And so maybe some of them are going to Taiwan, excuse me, maybe some of this will come out in conference committee, but I really doubt it. It seems like there's pretty strong bipartisan consensus in Congress for this. Even when you have, you know, some Republicans who are better on the war issue when it comes to like Ukraine or the Middle East, it's really only so they could be worse and more aggressive towards China. So we have more military resources to dedicate towards fighting

China. Yeah. You know, we're just, they always use this phrase, don't they? Sleepwalking to war. What do they mean by that? What they mean is completely ignoring the likely consequences of the potential downsides of their path. We like Taiwan a lot. Come on, everybody. Let's just say that a lot. And if that leads to Taiwan declaring independence and that leads to China attacking Taiwan, and if that leads to thousands of American sailors drowning in the Pacific, and that leads to thermonuclear war, well, whatever. At least we know we're on the side of right because we like Taiwan a lot and we're being good friends to our friends. And they just, you call sleepwalking, but everybody's wide awake. It's just, they're stupid. Well, I was going to say, Sky, I think

that's actually a great phrase to use for the Biden White House because of the way Biden looks as he like kind of walks up to the podium, where he's made these statements four times now that the U.S. is committed to defend Taiwan. They're really prepared to alter the longstanding, you know, U.S. defense policy towards Taiwan and make a explicit guarantee, which, you know, I think from what we've heard from the Chinese and from Beijing will probably be something that causes China to accelerate their goal to, you know, take Taiwan or at least keep Taiwan from falling, you know, independent into a full American defense orbit. You know, I mean, and from the American side, the reason that we're so concerned about Taiwan, of course, is because we want to be able to station missiles there and to use it as a giant arms depot.

You know, this is explicit now. They're saying that they want to use Taiwan as an arms depot should, you know, the U.S. ever need to go to war with China. Which has got to be the most ridiculous thing. Who is in charge of America? That can't possibly be what they think. That we're going to use Taiwan as our base to attack mainland China? from? Huh? That's the craziest thing I've ever heard in my life. Yeah. Yeah. All right, y'all. Well, now I have to stop for a second to raise some money for KPFK.

Well, running a radio station is expensive. Fortunately, we're broadcasting from one of the wealthiest cities in the world, a place where just one B-list celebrity could afford to keep the station going for a quarter without even missing it. I know it's trendy for all the center-left liberal hacks like Ben Stiller and Mark Hamill to sidle up to the war machine. That's how they prove they're not supposed anti-American leftists by supporting militarism and mass slaughter overseas, especially when Democrats are in power. But I know there's some proud anti-imperialists in Hollywood who care a lot more about ending war than looking compliant and acceptable before the war party. America desperately needs a principled, well-financed, radical left that will prioritize.

peace and keeping up the pressure on liberal Democrats in office to stick with the people and not entrenched power. Just as the America First non-interventionist right is putting pressure on the Republican War Party, we at KPFK have to keep the left focused on fighting that same kind of campaign against the Democrats. Tools like this radio station, the largest FM transmitter west of the Mississippi River, are absolutely essential. It won't be long before the whole world that suspended from Twitter for telling the truth about one thing or another. KPFK must remain. KPFK must remain so that we can get the word out

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818-985-5735 or KPFK.org. And thanks. At the Libertarian Institute, we published books. Real good ones. So far, we've got Will Griggs No Quarter. Sheldon Richmond's coming to Palestine and what social animals owe to each other. And four of mine.

Fool's Aaron. Enough already. The great Ron Paul. And my brand new one. Hotter than the sun. Time to abolish nuclear weapons. And I'm happy to announce that we've just published our managing editor Keith Knight's first one, The Voluntarius Handbook, an excellent collection of essays by the world's greatest libertarian

thinkers and writers, including me. Check them all out at libertarian institute.org slash books. And for a limited time, signed copies of enough already and hotter than the sun are available at Scott Horton.org slash books. Hey, guys, I had some wasps in my house. So I shot them to death with my trusty bug assault three point. model with the improved salt reservoir and bar safety. I don't have a deal with them,

but the show does earn a kickback every time you get a bug of salt or anything else you buy from Amazon.com by way of the link in the right-hand margin on the front page at Scott Horton.org. So keep that in mind. And don't worry about the mess. Your wife will clean it up. All right, well, anyway, um, now the Iranian nuclear deal.

Two-part question here. one is a thing as dead as a doorknail and two does it make any difference because aren't they still and two does it make any difference because aren't they still within the nonproliferation treaty yeah so they are still within the nonproliferation treaty and i haven't seen any signs from tyrant that they really have any plans at this point to really seriously reconsider their nuclear weapons program. What I think we are seeing here, Scott, though, is that the Iran nuclear deal is dead. Just today, Dave DeKamp writes at anti-war.com, the U.S. Slatmore sanctions on Iran. They say these are over the protests and the human rights abuses and all that other nonsense. And so that's

why they had to put the sanctions on the Iranians. I believe it was Anthony Blinken, but it was a high-level state department official who did say at this point the U.S. is prioritizing, supporting the protesters in Iran over actually getting the JCPOA at the Iran nuclear deal done. So that seems to me a pretty strong indication that the deal is dead. I think where this is more significant, Scott, is we saw a couple months ago I wrote this article for the Libertarian Institute that the Shanghai Cooperation Organization held a huge meeting. And at that meeting, Iran became the organization's 14th member. And in accepting the membership, the president, Ibrahim Reisi, said that, look, the world's

sanctioned economies, so Venezuela, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Zimbabwe, Syria, all these Syria, all these other countries that face massive sanctions by the U.S., all have enough economy to trade with it now, and each time the U.S. sanctions a new country, that blot just gets stronger and stronger and stronger. And, you know, that's more of what we're seeing from here is Iran has just completely moved away from even having to make ties or an agreement with the U.S. here and can just look, you know, towards these other countries to have economic cooperation with. Yeah.

Well, it's funny because the Americans seem to have this very counterproductive policy, the Americans. You and me, we're the Americans. I mean, the U.S. government, which is essentially alien to our civilization, if you ask me. But anyway, these people seem obsessed with dominating the entire world. And yet they are so bad at it. And so they're like pushing two-thirds of the world together into a block against us in the name of global hegemony. Yeah, it's been infuriating for anybody who listens to my show, Scott, for the past year.

here. Myself and co-host Connor Freeman have just been yelling and screaming that the U.S. has managed to not get back in the Iran nuclear deal, but has also tried to hurt the Russian economy, right? Russia's economy is dependent on high gas prices. And so if you want to increase the amount of oil in the room, all in the world, all you have to do is live sanctions on Iran and Venezuela, two countries that really can't compete or harm the U.S. The Biden administration says they want to get out of meddling in the Middle East. Nobody actually thinks Venezuela is going to, like, mount an offensive and try to invade or, you know, do a beach landing in Florida.

There's no risk there. Having some communists sitting around in South America isn't a top concern of the American people anymore. This isn't, you know, the Cold War era or anything like that. And so they very could have easily done that and get themselves at least a little bit of a leg up in the, you know, economic war with Russia where they're trying to cripple Moscow's economy, but have only made it stronger because they try to maintain all these other sanctions at the same time. That's further driven up the price of oil. Yeah. Well, when it comes to Iran,

Israel and their lobby won't have it. And that's the beginning and the end of that discussion. And as far as Venezuela, I mean, I know that Chavez declared independence from America back 20 years ago, but it seems like they could bring them in from the cold if they wanted to. I think this one comes down to a little bit more. You can't lift. sanctions on any country, pretty much ever unless that country becomes explicitly pro-American. You know, the U.S. really wasn't even able to lift sanctions on Iran. Obama did it for a couple years, but then Trump slapped them right back on. Daniel Harrison has a great article out on a substack about this week, how American sanctions are just simply not going to work because there's

no benefit to making it a deal or changing your policy because the Americans are going to reimpose the sanctions a couple of years again later. So it's just, it's, it's because the political consensus in Washington that says that, you know, you can't remove sanctions from a country because you have to, you know, punish anybody who's committing human rights abuses. I wrote a different article for the Institute this week, Scott, about how there's a, apparently a docket of sanctions sitting in the State Department that the White House hasn't issued yet, but they're all on a bunch of different African countries. And you have Bob Menendez, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, going, how can we say we promote human rights and democracy if we won't levy these sanctions on a bunch of human rights abusers and coup plotters? But if you look at the African continent, you have Egypt, who is one of the worst human rights abusers

who gets a billion dollars in American military aid a year. And a lot of the coup plotters are all trained by Afriqom, the U.S. Pentagon, the military, train them. And so if you want to stop these coups and the human rights abuses, just stop throwing weapons and military training around Africa. Yeah, seriously. And go back to 2011 and don't do a regime change in Libya. You can pull that off somehow. Speaking of taking al-Qaeda's side, what's the latest out of Yemen?

It's bad. I think the ceasefire has officially been dissolved, but so far Saudi Arabia really hasn't started carrying out air strides. There seems to be more fighting on the ground. ground. But, you know, as with Yemen, trying to determine who's fighting who on the ground could sometimes be hard because it doesn't seem like the Saudi UAE coalition has stuck to gather very well in parts of southern Yemen. And so I think, I'm sure I'm not saying this, why the Shabwa province is one of the main areas of Yemen where if you're going to export oil

or, yeah, oil it's going to go through there. There's been some fighting between the Saudi bad side and the UAE Bad Giants Brigade. recently and then I've read a couple times recently that there's been fighting around the ports of the hadata but I'm not sure how extensive that is or if it's getting in the way of even you know the still very limited shipping that's coming into that port yeah you know there's this piece at the cradle from October the 23rd Yemen facing worst food crisis in four years oh god I don't want to hear that I mean it's going to take a massive bombardment of nutrition food and medicine to save these people now. And none of that can happen without a real

peace. So people, you want to get involved in actually ending a war, having something to do besides just be upset about this stuff. There are active war powers resolutions in both houses of Congress right now. And it's the War Powers Act from 1973 that they passed over Richard Nixon's veto. That says if the president launches an unconstitutional, unauthorized war that they can end it after 60 days. Yeah, well, it's been eight years. And hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been killed. And they're trying to end the war. As Kyle's saying, the ceasefire expired, but Saudi did not begin the carpet bombing. And this idiot, Muhammad bin Salman, he's trying to back down on this thing now. He could use a push from the U.S. Congress forcing Joe Biden

to force him to wrap this thing up now. That's it. This would make it not just on constitutional, but illegal for the Biden government to continue support for the Saudi and UAE's war in Yemen. And you can get involved. Just go to 833 stopwar.com. They have bullet points on the war for you to understand, and they got talking points on the war for you to explain to your congressman and senators and all of that. And then, of course, that's the number to call 833 Stop War. And there's a huge campaign going on, left wing and right wing and libertarian groups all coming together, trying to get as many numbers as we can to pressure the Congress to let them know we really care about this and want to see

these resolutions pass. That's 833 stopwar.com. Now we got to get to the latest going on in Ukraine if you've got it for us. The attack or I guess I should say the status as of Thursday morning in the battle for Kurson. Can you tell us? A lot of what's going on right now are major warnings. Either there's going to be, the Ukrainians are going to blow up the dam, the Kershan Dam, which could be a mass casualty event, or the Russians are warning that the Ukrainians are going to use a dirty bomb to tap the city. There's been reports for a couple weeks that Russians have evacuated the civilians. I saw a bunch of people who were in the region, like kind of local reports saying that a lot of the people that are left are Russian soldiers and even accusations. that the Russian soldiers weren't in uniform anymore where maybe posing as civilians or something like that. I don't know how truthful that is, but those are some of the accusations going on.

The Ukrainians have made some advances. The Russian forces have had to withdraw on, but, you know, it's always hard to tell exactly what's happening here. If you read people who are, you know, the U.S. mainstream consensus is every, you know, square inch of Ukrainian territory that's taken back by Kiev is a, you know, strategic, you know, real gain and has nothing to do with, you know, what Russia's longer-term war plan is. And my guess, Scott, is, you know, Russia does have a longer-term war plan. And a lot of that is going to be concentrated on this region, even if Ukraine does take it. All those soldiers that Russia's arming up are probably likely headed to at least some part this region in the Dombas to try to retake this. territory that Moscow annex. So I think that's probably the dreads going. Russia is continuing to

just bomb all over Ukraine. I think that's kind of the military route they're taken right now is rather than actually fight the Ukrainian forces. They're carrying out strides and taking out Ukrainian infrastructure. I saw a rail line was hit recently. I saw the Ukrainian energy secretary equivalent say that 40% of their energy infrastructure. has now been destroyed. And so that seems to be Russia's current military strategy. People got to understand. This is all because of America's strategic policy,

that the worst thing that could ever happen would be what Merkel called the Eurasian home, a real alliance between Germany and Russia, and that anything that can be done must be done to prevent that from happening. But that's not the worst thing in the world. The worst thing in the world that ever happened, The last two times that it was the worst thing that ever happened was when Germany fought Russia.

Now, if we're going to be on Germany's side in another war, NATO versus Russia, it'll make World War II look like a footnote of history to the humans who survive. It'll be the end of the world. And they think that that's preferable to risk rather than just letting these people build their damn peace pipelines. And that's what we're talking about here. That's what this all comes down to. Eurasian, home, no, no. The middle part of North America must be the dominant force in Eastern Europe forever. Everyone knows that.

We've got the whole world held hostage over this doctrine, which makes no sense whatsoever on the face of it. Drawn up by Victoria Newland's husband, Robert Kagan. What the hell does he know? The guy who said the most important thing in the world we could do was invade Iraq 20 years ago. So, if we survive, we'll see you next Sunday here on Anti-War Radio. Thanks very much for joining us, Kyle. Appreciate you.

Thanks, Scott. That's Kyle Anselone from Anti-War.com, and that's Anti-War Radio for this morning. I'm your host, Scott Horton. Full Interview Archive at Scott Horton.org. The book is hotter than the sun, and I'm here every Sunday morning from 9 to 9.30 on KPFK, 90.7 FM in L.A. See you next week. I'm going to be able to be.