Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 11/14/24 Kyle Anzalone on the ICC Warrants and the Ongoing Crimes that Justify Them

Episode Date: November 24, 2024

Scott brought Kyle Anzalone on Antiwar Radio to discuss the situation in the Middle East. They cover the ICC arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant, the humanitarian situation in Gaza, the Israeli bombing in Lebanon and more.  Discussed on the show: First episode of The Kyle Anzalone Show “‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza” (+972 Magazine) “‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza” (+972 Magazine) “36 Killed in Israeli Attack on Ancient Syrian City of Palmyra” (Antiwar.com) Kyle Anzalone is news editor of the Libertarian Institute, opinion editor of Antiwar.com and co-host of Conflicts of Interest with Will Porter and Connor Freeman. Follow him on Twitter @KyleAnzalone_ This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Robers Brokerage Incorporated; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For Pacifica Radio, November the 21st, 2004. I'm Scott Horton. This is Anti-War Radio. All right, y'all welcome to show. It is Anti-War Radio. I'm your host, Scott Horton. I'm the editorial director of Anti-War.com. and author of the new book, Provoked,

how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine. You can find my full interview archive, more than 6,000 of them now, going back to 2003, at Scott Horton.org, and at YouTube.com slash Scott Horton Show and Spotify and whatever, all the different podcatchers and video sites and so forth

slash Scott Horton Show. And you follow me on Twitter. I'm back on Twitter at Scott Horton Show. All right, you guys, introducing this week's guest. It's the great Kyle Anzalone. He's our news editor at the Institute and Opinion Editor at Anti-War.com. And he hosts the great show, Conflicts of Interest, and the brand new Kyle Anzalone show. Welcome.

How you doing, Kyle? Doing well, Scott. Thanks for having me back. And congratulations on the new book. I'm several chapters in, and it is wonderful. So I'm sure everybody is going to love it. well cool appreciate that very much and congratulations on your new show where can people listen to that yeah so it's going to be up on youtube we're recording the first episode sometime today which will

be out in hopefully sometime later today but if it needs a little editing work uh sometime in the next couple of days and i'll be posting links all over my social media about it particularly on ads where you could follow me at kyle lansloan underscore great all right we're going to start off this show which for the last year we've done only Israel Palestine I've been writing this book about the Ukraine war but on the radio show we're doing all Israel Palestine

this horrible so-called war this merciless canned hunt continues but we're going to start this show with good news on the issue of Israel Palestine is there even such a thing as that Kyle Anzloon what could it be well Scott the international criminal court issued arrest warrants

for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the former Israeli defense minister who was just fired by Netanyahu last month, or earlier this month, Yov Galant, for the crimes that they have committed in Gaza. Additionally, the Hamas military commander, Mohamed Dyev, was indicted as well. Now, Israel has claimed that he is dead, so it's unclear if, you know, he could potentially have, be arrested if he's already dead. but assuming he's alive, he would have an arrest warrant issued for him as well. And these are over crimes for Netanyahu and Galant of starvation and intentionally targeting civilians in Gaza.

And have you had a chance to look at the, is it a new indictment that they've issued or what exactly is it? So it's the arrest warrant, I guess, for the request that Karim Khan made several months ago. it was held up as Israel argued that the International Criminal Court didn't have jurisdiction in Israel because Tel Aviv isn't a party to the treaty that created the ICC, much like the United States. However, Palestine is, and since these crimes are happening in Palestinian territories, whether that's Gaza primarily, but also East Jerusalem and the West Bank, then the ICC would have jurisdiction to issue these arrest warrants. Now, the ICC doesn't have a police force. They're not going go and get down that and Yahoo's door in Israel and haul him off to the Hague. However, if he goes

to a country and many European parties are party to the ICC, European countries are, then he would be arrested and then would stand trial for what he's accused of. And again, that's depriving aid to the Palestinians. That's intentionally causing this mass starvation. They mentioned, in the statement from the ICC that provide restrictions on medical aid entering Gaza has caused children to undergo amputations without anesthetics and all kinds of other misery and suffering caused by the lack of medical aid, food, water, energy that Israel has deprived the people of Gaza of, and then also the intentionally targeting of civilian infrastructure and civilian targets. Yeah. Well, I'm torn.

I got to admit, because I'm against any of these kind of international institutions. Because what if they put their hands on Americans? Then they go to trial without the U.S. Bill of Rights on some foreign system of law. But if that's wrong to do to Americans, it's wrong to do to other people. On the other hand, Israel has impunity to commit crimes every day all day long, impunity handed to them by the United States of America. The enforcer of the world law. and the one who decides when it does not apply.

And so somebody's got to do something. It's America and Israel that are putting the would-be world government types in this position where they need the authority to do such a thing. And man, I tell you, I quit Twitter because I had to write that book. But one of the best things about it was I didn't have to see dead kids all day. And now that I'm back on Twitter, the first thing I saw is dead Palestinian babies. little toddlers i saw more this morning every day they're killing kids over there every day exploding families to death wiping out entire families laughing about it it's the most disgusting thing

in the world so and as you say the iCC can't really stop it if nothing else it's really just a symbolic thing to explain to show that the government of israel is criminal and they're at are criminal. It's about as simple as that. I think anybody can endorse that. Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you said there, Scott, where in a sense I'm not a big fan of world government and the ICC. But here, the ICC taking this action, I think, does have political consequences that I do support and being able to say to, you know, fellow Americans that Nanyahu is a war criminal indicted by, you know, that has a one arrest warrant on him from the ICC is something that gets Americans, you know, to very quickly understand the situation and see Netanyahu as the bad guy. And so I think this is

very powerful in that sense. And we need political pressure in the United States to get Washington to cut off all the military support for Tel Aviv, because that's really the only way that we're going to bring this conflict in Gaza, the ongoing genocide to a close, is that. by Washington forcing Tel Aviv to do so. And I don't think Netanyahu is ever going to end up in the Hague, although this does really, you know, cut down on his restrictions of where he could flee to if, say, some of these corruption trials in Israel end up moving forward and he ends up potentially having a jail sentence in Israel.

He would have a pretty limited number of countries he could end up in, Scott, if he's also avoiding this ICC arrest warrant. Well, and I would encourage people to read, what did they call that when the International Court of Justice issued that preliminary thing where they just, they weren't pressing charges, but they were essentially presenting an indictment and especially showing all those horrible quotations about how these people are just animals and we can kill them all and that kind of stuff. I'm not sure what the name of it was, but was submitted by South Africa. So if you just look at the South African report to the ICJ, you'll find all that information. And a lot of those statements specifically came from the two men indicted here, Netanyahu and Galant. Netanyahu, who said, you know, referred to Amalek when he was talking to the Israeli troops, which, you know, biblically, they called for a genocide of Amalek. And so there's calls from the leadership to the troops to commit genocide.

and you've had videos of Israeli troops where they've posted, you know, that they're treating the Palestinians like Amalek. So, you know, you have that direct link right there between what Netanyahu said and what the troops understand and what they're actually doing in Gaza. And with Yov Galant, he called for the complete siege and the complete cutting off of all food, medicine, water energy to Gaza at the start after October 7th at the very start of all this. And that's been enacted mostly throughout the past year or so, Scott, you know, a hundred trots or so we're getting in a day far short of what the people of Gaza needed for months and months and months. But now hardly any aid gets in at all. And this has actually been reported in the Washington Post that Israel has set it up so that

when aid does enter Gaza, local gains, not Hamas, but just cigarette smuggling gains that have emerged and have become empowered since. Israel took over, have set up bases in areas controlled by the IDF and are often looting these aid trucks within sight of IDF soldiers. And so, you know, Israel is even the aid that gets into Gaza is being stolen by the Israeli propped up forces in Gaza. And it's driving up food prices and causing chaos and things like that within the strip. Well, I saw a thing the other day where they said that the aid trucks arrived, they

unloaded all the aid, and then they set the building on fire. with all the aid, too, in everybody's face. Is that true? I did see those same reports. I also saw, Scott, that the Israelis took over the only desolalization water plant in northern Gaza and are now using it for a military base and have jumped the thing. So, you know, all these things are going on to deprive the Palestinians of everything they need to survive in Gaza. They junked the drinking water plant. Yeah, they, they, they, if you look at the videos published by the Israeli soldiers, uh, dropside News published this.

That's, I think Jeremy Scahill's new site, they do some really good work. And the Israeli soldiers, you can see they've defaced it with graffiti. It's in disarray. There's missing siding on the side of the building. So it's been at least partially destroyed, if not completely unfunctional at this point. Yeah. All right, it's anti-war radio. I'm Scott Horton talking with Kyle Anzalone from anti-war.com.

Now, let's talk about more about what's going on in northern Gaza there, other than just massive, apparently arbitrary air strikes against civilians all day long there for the fun of the IDF for ethnic cleansing purposes. What is happening on the ground there? So there's three cities in northern Gaza that there's tens of thousands of Palestinians reported in each of them who have stayed after Israel gave the evacuation orders to leave. And the reason a lot of people stayed, Scott, is because when people have tried to leave northern Gaza to head south, the evacuation routes have been bombed. And particularly over the past month and a half, it's been reported that since the start of October, that any Palestinian who walks outside in northern Gaza is almost instantly shot at or has a risk of being shot by a quadcopter drone.

And so a lot of people are afraid to flee, but now there's no aid coming into these areas, too, which includes the Jabalya refugee. g camp well now slow down there's so much horror show here i know it's it's hard to know which detail i'm going to fixate on here kyle but did you just say shot by drones flying around yes and they're shooting rifles at people or shotguns or because we're not talking about George w bush and Barack obama predator and reaper drone strikes here we're talking about little quadrocopter drones you say flying around shooting people with guns yes so this has been going on throughout the conflict. There was even a report by a surgeon who said that one of these quadcopter drones entered a surgery room and shot didn't kill but shot one of

his colleagues during a surgery. And so these had been reported. There was recently a British doctor who reported that after Israeli drone strikes in northern Gaza are air strikes of some kind in northern Gaza, these quadcopter drones will show up after and shoot the wounded, including he said even children. And so this has been going on for some time and it is an absolute just horror nightmare. You know, growing up, one of the dystopian things I remember, Scott, was Terminator and these drones taking over

and just coming in and this killing by machine. And that seems to be a lot of what's happening to the Palestinians in Gaza. Yeah. You know what, Kal Anzel, would you please refresh our memory a little bit about the different AI programs that the Israelis have boasted

about using against these people too. Here we got autonomous robot killers obeying autonomously ordered instructions on who to kill. And you know what? Judging by the chat GPT on my phone, this AI thing is an absolute idiot. And it would call anybody Hamas if it thinks that that's what you wanted it to say.

Right. Yeah, anybody who thinks AI could determine legitimate targets, go ask Grock to make a.mast picture of Zelensky right now, and you will see that they are completely unable to make these determinations. But early on in the war, we had two reports from 972 magazine, which is an outlet based in Tel Aviv. And they had interviews with dozens of Israeli soldiers and intelligence or officials who told them about two different AI programs they were used to generate targets to bomb in Gaza. And they were, lavender was one, and the other one was the gospel. And what these two

programs did is they basically gave a score to all Palestinian men in Gaza. And if you had too high of a score, they determined that you were a member or somehow an associate of Hamas and you could be killed. And they also had the program where's daddy. And so these people who may have some, maybe their cousin is a member of Hamas, maybe their low level of Hamas, whatever it is. Israel was waiting until they actually went to their home. And because, you know, kids, when they're waiting for dad to come home, they say, where's daddy, where's daddy? And when they get home, then they drop the airstrike to kill the entire family.

And we know this happened hundreds of times in northern Gaza, particularly early on in the conflict. And then the second AI program was called the gospel. And this one generated targets of structures. So any place that they say, oh, we track too many members of Hamas going to, it then generates that as a target and it gets an airstripe dropped on it. Of course, if you're not going to determine who's a member of Hamas or not, or what are indicators of what Hamas is doing are not, then you're not going to hit the right targets. And obviously, Israel didn't have a good sense of what Hamas activities wore as they were surprised by the October 7th attack. Yeah. Hey, y'all, let me tell you about Roberts & Roberts, Brokerage, Inc.

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the libertarian antics of cartoon me, along with all my new pals. That's tuttwins.com slash 10 years. All right, so let's talk about Lebanon, southern Lebanon. What's the extent of the fighting, there and, well, I shouldn't limit it to southern Lebanon. I guess they're bombing Beirut whenever they feel like, too, right? Yeah, so I think the worst thing going on in Lebanon

is the bombing campaign, which Israel seems to be targeting medical facilities, over 200 dead paramedits or other medical staff over the past just month and a half now. So they're really raining down fire on medits. Also, over 200 killed children killed since the beginning of October. So I guess that's about seven weeks, just an absolute horror show to be dropping bombs on obvious civilian targets. They killed that many children and that many medits. A lot of the Mets are reported to have been killed in what during the Obama years they were calling the double tap or the Sinichurch strides, which means after you drop a bomb on a particular target, you wait 10 or 15 minutes and you bomb it again. That way you kill anybody who rushes in and tries to help provide aid. And when, again, you have hundreds of dead children.

Of course, everybody is rushing in to try to help, you know, a crying child under the rubble. And they're killing a lot of paramedics and also just bombing a lot of hospitals in this way. I think about a quarter of Lebanon's hospitals and medical facilities have had to be shut down from the Israeli bombing campaign. The Israeli soldiers have pushed into southern Lebanon. They're encountering a lot of resistance. They've taken at least dozens of casualties at this point. point soldiers killed included and they haven't only been targeting hezbollah they've also had some run-ins with the lebanese military and i think they've killed a few lebanese soldiers and

they've injured dozens of u.n soldiers either by using gas or uh shelling near them man you know you mentioned about people trapped under the rubble there reminded me i saw a tweet late last night from a guy talking about how they can hear children's voices inside the rubble. Like you think about an earthquake here, even the Oklahoma bombing. There's slabs of concrete laying on top of people. But you got trucks and cranes available. It's Oklahoma City. Somebody's coming.

Obviously, a lot of people died in there and even wounded people died waiting to be rescued there. They kept calling off the rescue efforts. Anyway, that's another story. But the point is, here, nobody's coming. There's no crane. There's no forklift, ever. And so this guy says we can hear voices of children in the rubble. That's it.

They're buried alive. The worst thing anyone could ever imagine. Fate worse than death. And probably horribly wounded under there, too, as they die. Alone. It's the most sadistic and horrific thing on the face of the earth. It's far worse than the war in Ukraine, where the civilians mostly have been able to flee and get out of the way.

And yes, the Russians do hit cities with missiles from time to time and this kind of thing. But it's nothing like this. This war to exterminate a captive population. Again, for anyone listening, confused. And everyone, you should always say this to everyone when you talk about Israel, Palestine. Because you should know, audience. Nobody else seems to understand. They need it to be explained to them.

Palestine ain't the country next door. Palestine is the country that Israel is. is on top of. And Gaza and the West Bank, they are occupied territory. They were already beaten. Way back in 48, but then under Israeli control since 1967.

So this is an attack, a canned hunt against Indians on a reservation who are trapped. And they're deliberately killing children, men, women, and children every single day. It's the most disgusting thing in the world. And it's against America's national interest. If you care about us, this is the kind of thing that gets American cities attacked.

We've seen it before. And, you know, I don't know. It's sort of like America did 20 years of damage in the name of September 11th over there, killed 4 million people. The Israelis have killed a year worth of people. High tens of thousands, maybe more, in the name of October. 7th. What do you expect the other side to do in the name of what's happened to them here?

Assuming whatever power they got and the other side meaning anyone who identifies with them and chooses to take their side. Supporting Israel is against America's national interests. Anybody could see that no matter where you ever were on any political spectrum. All of this is wrong. All right. So speaking of which, tell us about Israel bombing Syria again more now. Yeah. Well, I mean, this has been going on every week for over a decade now. It's got to be one of the longest ongoing bombing campaigns on earth at this point, the Israeli bombing of Syria. But in recent weeks, it's really uptit. And Jason Ditts has been covering this for us at anti-war.com. The most recent strike is one, the deadliest. Three dozen people, 36 people killed in Palmyra. Of course, Israel doesn't really comment on these strikes. And if they do,

They're going to claim, oh, there's Hezbollah or some Iranian faction that we have to attack, some Shia militia operating in Syria that we have to attack. But most of the time when the damage is actually looked at, a lot of the targets are just Syrian Arab army targets, Assad's army, who is mostly concerned about, you know, he's not worried about trying to retake the Golan Heights from Israel. He's just trying to take Idlib back from the Turks and Al-Qaeda. And so these attacks really empower the jihadists in Syria and keep Syria as a weakened and more feeble state. Yeah, it's really incredible the way all of this is going on. And then they got America on the opposite side of the regional civil war.

There's the bin Ladenites that attacked us. And yet all our enemies are the Shiites. And there's only one reason why. One. That's what Israel wants. You know, hey, in the new book, I talk about in there, how Zabinu Brizenski, himself. in the 1990s, said, now's the time to warm up to Iran. You know what we could do? We could build a pipeline through Iran and then have a common economic interest and bring them in from

the cold. The revolution was a long time ago. He was a national security visor during the revolution. He was saying, come on, it's time to soften on them now. That was in the 1990s. You know who said no? Israel said no. And therefore, Bill Clinton said no. And we haven't been able to get along with Iran ever since then. There's only one reason why. This foreign country has veto power over American foreign policy. When Obama passed his

nuclear deal with every last cent of political capital that he had, that was the limit of it. No one thought for a moment that he could normalize relations. They could get on a plane and go to Tehran. That he could ever figure this out, open an embassy

over there. Has to be Cold War. Just dealing with this one issue. And then, of course, because they didn't solve the overall Cold War with Iran, that one issue fell apart. And when it was Donald Trump's turn, he tore up that treaty. Well, agreement. So, anyway, but there's only one reason why, because that's what Israel wants. You can blame the airplane lobby, I guess, but I don't know. Well, and look at this, and look at the situation in the Middle East got, would Israel be able to get away with what they're doing in Gaza. The Jordanians and the Egyptians weren't paid off by the Americans.

And the Saudi military wasn't an American military, so it can't be used to attack the Israelis. In Iraq and Syria has been completely destroyed. And so has Libya and Sudan and Somalia and Ethiopia. If you look at the map around Israel, nearly every country is captured by the United States and bought off by Washington or has been decimated by Washington in some regime change war over the past two decades. Yeah. And you know it's funny, it keeps coming up about the U.S. Navy fighting their biggest sea battles they claim since World War II. I guess that's right. Against the Houthis in the Red Sea. After the Obama-Trump war there ended at the beginning

of the Biden years, they started it up again for Israel. Only now instead of backing Saudi and UAE, now it's America bombing them and the American Navy getting shot at. Right. And there's no evidence, Scott, that the Americans are winning this. Even though we've had billions spent now, our ships have come under fire, cargo ships have been hit. We could have ended all this just by telling the Israelis to knock it off in Gaza. Remember, the Houthis didn't start doing any of this until January.

You know, Israel got a free hand to kill people in Gaza. Gaza for a few months before the Houthis even stood up and started doing anything. And rather than the Americans at some point telling the Israelis to knock it off, we started having these large naval deployments to the Middle East in the Red Sea, in the Gulf of Aden there off Yemen's coast and were bombing Yemen, missile strikes in Yemen, we're wasting expensive anti-missiles, you know, anti-ship missile missiles on this complex. conflict for absolutely no reason, Scott. And it's just such a waste. And the Houthis are performing very well. And I'm sure for the Houthis, this helps to galvanize support for them in Yemen.

Look, you know, all they've really been shown to be able to do is fight wars. And so being able to fight against the war against the Americans is probably, you know, right in their wheelhouse of things they could do. If the Americans stop bombing Yemen might force the Houthis to govern. and the people of Yemen might decide that they're incapable of doing that and rise up and try to appoint some kind of better government for insinah. But, you know, there's no evidence of that happening anytime soon. Yeah, you got that right. And this has been the story of the Houthis all along that, hey, we're all Houthis now, as long as the Americans and Saudis are bombing us. You know, I got that from Yemeni journalist himself told me that.

He's no Houthi. He's not from the north. But, hey, they happen to be the ones in charge now. while we're being attacked by foreign powers, then it is what it is, the same as it would be anywhere else. The same as people lining up behind George W. Bush. Believe that.

They call it the rally around the flag effect at college. And by the way, some enterprising young PhD student could do a whole study on how air power does not work against the Houthis, beginning in 2015 when Barack Obama started this merciless thing, where they killed a genocide worth the people. people hundreds of thousands of people at least 300,000 I bet it's more than that and bombed them for eight years 10 years straight and that didn't stop them one bit just like it's not stopping them now and that's not an advertisement for let's invade you on as it's saying we need to back off

and with that I'm sorry we're out of time Kyle but you do such great work at the institute and at anti-war dot com and on your great shows good luck with your brand new show can't wait to see it conflicts of interest and the Kyle Anzalone show and find him at the Institute and anti-war dot com appreciate you buddy thanks Scott all right you guys and that's it for anti-war radio for today I'm your host Scott Horton I'm here every Thursday from 230 to 3 on Kpfk 90.7 FM in LA see you next week