Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 11/18/22 Daniel McAdams on the Poland Missile Incident and Prospects for Negotiations

Episode Date: November 20, 2022

Scott is joined by Daniel McAdams to talk about the war in Ukraine. They start with the incident on Tuesday when a missile crossed into Poland, a NATO country, and killed two people on a farm. That leads to a discussion about the possibility of negotiations between Kyiv and Moscow. McAdams argues against the idea that Republicans are about to turn against the provision of military support for Ukraine. Finally, they touch on the FTX situation.  Discussed on the show: “WaPo Neocon Josh Rogin: Republicans Responsible for Ukraine Loss” (Antiwar.com) “Game On” (Harpers)  Daniel McAdams is the executive director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity and the co-host of the Ron Paul Liberty Report. Follow him on Twitter @DanielLMcAdams and read all of his work over at Antiwar.com. This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State and Why The Vietnam War?, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; and Thc Hemp Spot. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, y'all, you should sign up for my substack. It's Scott Horton's show.substack.com. And if you do that, you'll get the interviews a day before everybody else. But not only that, they'll be free of commercials. How do you like that? Pretty good, huh? Scotthortonshow.substack.com. All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show.

I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of anti-war.com, author of the book, Fool's Aaron, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and the brand new, enough already. Time to end the war on terrorism. And I've recorded more than 5,500 interviews since 2003, almost all on foreign policy and all available for you at Scott Horton.4. You can sign up the podcast feed there, and the full interview archive is also available at YouTube.com. slash Scott Horton's show. All right, you guys on the line. I've got the great Dan McAdams. Of course, he's the director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity and co-host with Ron Paul of The Liberty Report. Welcome back to the show. Dan, how you doing?

Hey, Scott. Thanks so much for having me back on your show. I appreciate it. Hell yeah, man. I love talking to you. And I love reading your stuff, too, because, well, you just write my own tone of voice. You know, it's great. Wapo, Neocon. Oh, I'm sorry.

What? It's ticked off tone of voice. Yeah, exactly. Chip on the shoulder. Wapo neocon, Josh Rogan, Republicans responsible for Ukraine laws, which before we get into that, I want to say, and I notice that you say here, too, somewhere that he ain't the worst one. I'm not sure where your soft spot for Rogan may come from. Mine is that he was really good, well, he did valuable journalism about the Afghan surge in the early Obama year. and I used to interview him back then

and when he was at foreign policy before he went to the post and I know he's such a hawk on so many things but I'm curious as to what it is that you don't hate about the guy he isn't the worst you know and there are a few things about him um he's

first of all he'll engage you he'll engage his opponents and no neocons do that you know they think that you're lower than dirt and you're not even worth their time but Josh will always respond and, you know, again, in some way, I wish we could convert him to our cause, but I guess that's where his bread is buttered, but he's...

There is still good in him. Yeah, there is still good. Yeah, so, yeah, I hate to attack him, but, you know, because of that, but it's a pretty easy target this time, so I have to pick the low-hanging fruit, I guess. And look, it's the Washington Post. You sign up to work at the Pentagon. You know that it's a military target, you know? That's right.

It's exactly true. I'm not saying it's good. I'm just saying it's fair. Yeah, absolutely. No, that's the truth. By the way, I only learned this late in life. You're an earball witness to the attack on the Pentagon. The plane flew right over your house.

Is that right? Yeah, it did. Exactly. We were on the top floor of our condo building and we had it skylight. So I was sitting there having my cup of coffee and this crazy loud sound and a shadow passed over the skylight. and then we felt the percussion of the arrival. Amazing. So I don't think I've ever asked you about that.

I've read that before where you told that to the press at the time. Yeah, it was weird. It just tells you how long ago it was. I looked in the yellow pages for any news. And I found CBS News in the Yellow Pages. And I called, because everyone was saying a bomb went off. And I knew it wasn't a bomb because of my vantage point.

And so I called just to correct that. But the funny part about this, Scott, is that a lot of people, I don't know if it's still true, but a lot of people think that I'm part of the great cover-up conspiracy because I'm the one that said it was a plane when in fact it was a missile. So I'm part of the deep state conspiracy about 9-11. Yeah, but that's how you know it was a plane, not a missile, because Dan McAdams was there, man. If you can't trust Dan McAdams, then pack it in and give it up. Go and take a long swim in a deep, Blake, pal, because it's over.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying I believe the official story about anything, but in this case, I was not, I'm not part of the deep state because of that. I just made an observance. And in fact, I did not see a plane, but it certainly sounded like a plane.

It was a plane. Of course, you know, the real tragedy there is the whole red herring about Donald Rumsfeld shooting a missile at his own damn Pentagon while he was sitting in it was completely negates the entire question of what do you mean the CIA didn't tell

the FBI about the pilots of that plane the San Diego cell the key to the whole damn scandal about I mean to whatever degree Saudi and CIA knew about what was going on here

yeah damn it and instead is oh yeah no it was a missile and damn McAdams is I guess part of the Illuminati too exactly I'm sitting in here in my gold filled room All right. Anyway, Mr. Secret Knowledge, clue us in here.

Josh Rogan says the war in Ukraine is going great, and if it fails, it's because the Republicans are right-wing anti-war hippies who are undermining faith in our men or something. Yeah, exactly. And I think what it shows, and I think the theme of the past few weeks, and I have to confess, I follow this very closely, I mean, obsessively. But, you know, things have changed. The tone has changed. There is some concern in Washington. And part of it is the midterm elections with the Republicans taking the house. And by no means are these people anti-war. But as we know, big things happen when a tiny kernel of doubt is inserted into a house of cards. You know, mixing my metaphors here, but you see what I'm saying. The official story is so weak

that any amount of skepticism blows it out of the water. And I think that's why we're seeing some panic. I mean, we can talk about this during the course of our discussion, but certainly the Poland missile thing was not what they wanted to have happen at this point, because it just magnifies the doubt by a hundredfold. So that's the real danger, I think. Yeah, and you know what's funny about that, too, is, you know, as soon as it happened, it was a fair assumption that whoever did it, it was an accident. Missiles go off target sometimes, even if it was a Russian missile that did it. They weren't trying to hit a farm and kill two innocent civilians, right? So it just goes to show how prejudiced and built up everyone was ready to seize on something like that. Instead of having

the reaction that you or I or I would like to think any normal rational adult would have, which is, all right, everybody be cool. Let's wait and see what happened here. Don't start a thermonuclear war over a couple of farmers, as precious as their lives were. This is quite apparently an accident. And then now we know, too, it was a defensive missile that missed, right? It was just a damned accident is all it was. Yeah, I mean, if the Russians are pretty aggressive with their weapons, there's no doubt about that. But if they wanted to take out Poland, they would take out some of those air bases where all of these weapons are being staged for delivery into Ukraine.

I mean, if you're going to go, you're going to go. you're not going to you're not going to hit a grain silo so that was that was obvious and into his credit we have to say thankfully Biden fell into the category that you discussed of people saying hang on a minute this is not this was not cooked into the into the cake here on this one we don't want to go thermonuclear over this and brought us back from the brink however our proxy our little our little puppet didn't get the memo or didn't read the memo or didn't care about the memo and he forgot who was really in charge, and that's why he came out with his, the Russians have attacked NATO, we must do something to stop them right now. And that's, of course, was Zelensky. Yeah, you would think that he would have better PR guys who would say, hold up now, you're getting too far off the script and looking silly. And in fact, like the Americans complain about that to the financial times, that, geez, we'd wish he'd shut up. This is worse than the accidental missile itself, is him continuing to try to pretend that it was the Russians when,

We already told the whole world it wasn't because we know it wasn't. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, and also the other reports that he tried to call Biden several times. And not only did, because apparently from the press reports, usually when he calls and Biden's not available, he gets Sullivan or someone. But this time he got no one. Oh, really? Yeah, no one picked up the phone. And I think that is when he got ticked off and went ahead with his crazy statement.

And apparently that's when Jake Sullivan. called him back and said cool it man yeah you know you better you better chill out here well and look i mean isn't that sort of the story the last couple of weeks is that the administration is sending more and more kind of trial balloons up about how they're ready to start talking they're talking about start and burns met with what's his name there in anchor uh yeah and you're getting a little bit of that right uh general milly said that i mean look i'm inferring a lot from his statement. But when he said, look, we've done real good in Kersaun. Let's call that a good day and let's sit down and talk now. That sounds to me, Dan, like he's saying, you guys are going to

lose Mary a poll, bro. We're not going to go so far as help you take it back. It's time to stop this now. That's a pretty damn big deal compared to the official policy still, I believe, is we're going to help them take back every inch of Ukrainian soil, including Crimea. That's what Stoltenberg said, you know, he said, there is only a military solution. And sadly, in this case, he's right, but it's not the one he's thinking, you know. And I think that is why Millie has done this, because there are a lot of bad things about Millie. I mean, we can, we'll get Doug McGregor on the line, and he'll talk for about an hour about why Millie is a horrible guy. But Millie also is no dummy. He's a survivor. He's, you work for Trump and Biden. And he sees what's coming down the pipe.

And he sees that when you want to talk about maneuver on the battlefield, when you want to talk about air superiority, the Russians have it all. And the Russians have shown that they can simply, you know, flip a switch and 100 missiles fly and knock out the entire, you know, the entire infrastructure of the country. So when they do, if they do decide these 200,000, 300,000 men, additional men, when they two decide to do something with this, it will be, I. think even the Pentagon understands something really bad has happened. And that's why, of course, you call pause when you're about to lose. Hey, guys, let's talk this over. And that's what I think we're seeing here from Millie, who certainly has more experience, even for his faults, than a Jake Sullivan, and a lot better, a lot more wisdom and understanding of how the world works. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. When you got a four-star saying, let's chill, and you got the

weenie over at the State Department saying, no, let's fight. Let's you and him fight. then no. The dynamics there are pretty clear. And just remember the anecdotes. This is multiply. In fact, Josh Rogan reported this. And so did others. They essentially told the same story. There are two or three different sources for this about how the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Secretary of Defense, the National Security Advisor, and Deputy National Security Advisor were all against attacking Libya. And then on the other side was the Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton and the ambassador to the U.N., Susan Rice, and Samantha Power on the National Security Council.

And Gates is saying, look, we were already in two wars. He meant six, but whatever. We're already in two major wars, he meant, in Iraq and Afghanistan. You guys want to do a third one now? I was like, look, man, go ahead and hide behind your Secretary of Defense. And just say, look, my Secretary of Defense, who's a Republican who I inherited from W. Bush, wants me to not do it. That's good enough. That's enough to have Gates tell McCain to back off, and McCain will have, right?

And instead he did it anyway, because that's what Hillary Clinton wants. It's the same kind of thing here. Like, look, Chairman of the Joint Chief says it's time to chill. Good enough for me. What took you so long, but fine, you know? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, nothing is going to get better there by continuing what's happening. objection, and this is just as the non-interventionists, I don't want the U.S. to be in the middle

of any negotiations. I don't think we should have a role. I don't think we should have ever had a role. We shouldn't have spent these last eight years arming them to the teeth. There would have been a peace. This would have never broken out if it hadn't been for the neocons pushing in Ukraine. They would have had a good relationship with both the EU and with Russia. They would have been trading and they would have been wealthy because that's what happens when you're in the middle of two great powers and you're trading with both of them. But I don't think that we have anything particularly useful other than a venue, right? Maybe rent out to Hilton in D.C. or something, Crystal City and invite him to come there and talk. But other than that, I just don't think, I mean,

our credibility is gone. I mean, I think, you know, someone like Erdogan, you know, who's kind of a double dealer, which can be good and bad. But he certainly, you know, someone like him, I think could be a good intermediary, but I just, I don't want to see the U.S. take a lead role in facilitating the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia. I just don't think it's a good idea. Yeah, that's smart. I mean, they can at least, you know, say, okay, Ukraine, now it's time for you to deal. We're backing out here. Yeah. I have to leave them completely high and drive. They can let them know that it's time for and, yeah, and everyone, or even, hell, go back to just the Normandy format where it's Germany and France taking the lead. Yeah. And then Britain and America and the U.N. kind of rubber-stamp

that only this time mean it yeah but i just think i mean i think zalinski is right too there's not going to be a minsk three i mean because if putin if putin accepts a minsk three i do think he's going to be in trouble at home because we've already seen what happened to minsk two that was supposed to be guaranteed by those same normandy powers that wasn't so it's it's the dynamics are going to be very different at their negotiating table if it comes to that this time and it's going to be basically like Zelensky, if it still is Zelensky there. Sign on this line and we'll stop bombing you. This is what it's going to be. And the sad thing is, you know, A, okay, we know this could have been avoided, of course. If we'd simply listen to Putin when he was talking last

year about security guarantees and a new security architecture in that part of the world. But it's certainly in the spring, if it wasn't for Bojo, the clown could have ended. And yes, Russia may have gotten the Don Bass back, which of course only became part of Ukraine in 1922, not that long ago under Lenin. They may have gotten that back, and it would have stopped there. But no, they had to keep pushing because this is a different kind of war. It's a regime-changed war against Russia, and this is what the neocons like Newland and Blinken have always wanted. They're getting their war. But as usual, and I touched upon it in the Rogan piece, as usual, they botched the whole thing up and it ends up in disaster yeah and of course as usual the republicans are insisting that

biden do more spend more giving it more money than he asks for insisting that he's not really doing enough and he should expand what kind of weapons and all these things Mitch mccallely might as well be john McCain he's yeah yeah right i mean it's it's a pretty unlikely hero that's emerging in Marjorie Taylor Green, who I have to admire her moxie. I don't follow her that closely, but when she's on your side, she's not a bad ally because she's a very plain spoken person. And, you know, she has introduced legislation to audit the money that's gone to Ukraine so far. And I think that's a smart move. And obviously, that's what Senator Paul wanted to do back when we did that $40 billion a few months ago. And an audit is a good way of just bringing it to the

table. Where did this money go? What's this relationship between this FTX and money going to Ukraine and money going to Democrat and Republican lawmakers? Let's look into some of the stuff. So I think that's pretty important. And you're right. Most Republicans are mad at Biden because he didn't go harder and faster. But there is a small group. And as we know, it only takes a small group. It doesn't take a majority. Get 10 members together saying, we want to know what this is all about. And then that people will start paying attention, I think. Yeah. And then there is. is you know after avoiding a thermonuclear holocaust is the second most important question which is can there be a real civil war inside the republican party between people who kind of mouth america first and

people who mean it and yeah that's a hell of a row to ho i know you know as well as i do just how bad the gop has always been on this stuff for eons now yeah and we i mean we can't pretend that we have anything. When I say we, I'm not a member of the party, but we can't remember that we can't, you know, feel like there's anything like a majority that have our point of view when it comes to foreign policy. But there are a few, and that's better than it's been, I would say, since Ron Paul was in, and he put together his liberty group of, you know, 15 or 20 members who every week, and it was so helpful because every week they met behind closed doors, what went on, what was said there, stayed there, and they were able to express their misgivings

about Iraq together, they were all Republicans in a comfortable setting, and they knew that no one was going to start yapping afterwards. And that really helped build serious and significant opposition to the Republican Party to the ongoing Iraq debacle and even Afghanistan. So it doesn't take much. Yeah, look, and out of many, many things, I believe this is Ron Paul's greatest legacy, was letting right-wingers know that you don't have to believe in this stuff man i sure as hell don't and that was just you know a permission slip a hall pass yeah there's nothing left wing about this not from this guy and so then it's just a matter of like come on you really believe in george bush and dick cheney

and this aggressive war this absolute debacle by any measure come on and once he said that it's okay for you to feel that way it was like uh you know well you saw it and you were right there it went from thousands of us to millions of us yeah and just just in that rom paul 2007 2008 revolution man this something else it really was and you know we worked hard to get the right speakers and i worked with kent schneider uh the late kent snider but we worked hard to get republican speakers, especially military men. I won't say the name, but we had a three-star general there who was very well respected among Republicans. And we never had anyone, and it was no, it was not because of any prejudice, but we never had anyone on the left, because the point was to

show Republican members that there are Republican experts out there that think this is a disaster, you know, and that's why it worked. I mean, sometimes you have to be partisan, and that's what the idea of the lunches were. That's why they worked so well, I think. Yeah. Hey, y'all, Scott Horton here for Tennessee Hot Sauce Company. Man, this stuff is so good. They get all different flavors.

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All that really means is if you stand for something, then you'll start to get suspicious about things pretty quick. Because it's pretty obvious that everything in the common consensus is not truly on the up and up the way that they say. It's unavoidable, right? Yeah. I mean, this will go down as one of the, one of the biggest. debacles of the entire, I mean, since the Iraq war, this plowing of $100 million, $100 billion into this basically regime change operation against Russia. If it ever comes out, if people ever start understanding it, it's going to be looked at as one of the most idiotic things in history and one

of the most dangerous things in history. I mean, Iraq couldn't have launched a nuclear weapon against us. Russia can. So that's one reason why we should not be worrying about regime changing them. Well, elaborate on what you mean about this policy being about regime change in Moscow there. Well, that's, I mean, that's, to me at least, that's clearly what it's about. It's not about Ukraine. I don't believe that for a second the Blinken and Newland and the others give a darn about Ukraine at all.

Otherwise, they wouldn't have been pushing them to do something so blatantly stupid like taking on Russia. It was a dumb move. And I'll say, oh, yeah, Russia invaded. yes, that is true. Technically, on February 24th, they did cross over. But for eight years, Ukraine, Kiev was shelling, eastern Ukraine. That's objectively true. In the days before Russia went in, we know from the OSCE monitoring that, you know, that shelling had increased significantly, like by 100%, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but shelling had increased Ukraine. That is Kiev's shelling, Donbass, had increased. They were pushing and pushing and pushing, expecting that Russia would not. act. And I will admit I was wrong. I did not think Russia would go in because I've always viewed Putin as being, despite what his detractors say, very conservative. And in fact, his opposition in Russia are not people who think he does too much, but people who think he does too little and is not

as aggressive as he should be. So I thought that inherent conservatism in terms of foreign policy action would have prevented him from doing it. I did not understand properly how critical this issue was to them. So the goal has always been to get rid of Putin, to divide up Russia, like they did to Yugoslavia, and to put a U.S. puppet in there. And it's just certainly at this time,

it's not something that will work, and it's backfiring, and it's backfired. And the victims are, by and large, Ukrainian people who are, you know, freezing to death right now. Yeah, seriously, I mean, including the soldiers, too, but this is something like 100,000 people. been killed in this thing. I don't know. High tens anyway. For sure. And, you know, most of them, despite what's said, are dying on the Ukrainian side.

You know, they're now starting to conscript people that are over 40, you know, because they've lost all the young people. They've all, you know, they've all been killed. You know, there are certainly Russians have suffered and have died. There's no question about that. but even people like Colonel McGregor talk about like a 10 to one ratio so when you're when you're losing when you're bleeding to that level that certainly would be a sign to me that it's time to rethink this whole thing yeah well I know he and Daniel L Davis both agree that there's this massive offensive at least being prepared I don't know about crystal ball you know when they're going to pull the trigger on it but Davis talked about you know massive fuel resources being stationed just on the other side of the line and this kind of thing and that we haven't really seen i know there's been some reports about oh some reinforcements here and there but evidently according to these two experts we haven't seen the 300,000 reserves that were called up in action at all or the difference that i guess they would take the place of the active duty military and then those guys would be freed up

to go to the front then so somewhere around a couple of hundred thousand men supposedly are just waiting for the ground to be frozen solid so they don't have to worry about getting stuck in the mud and then they have the free rein in the place. They don't have to stick to the roads and they can go in on a massive offensive and that that's essentially looming right now. So I don't know exactly the truth of that,

but if you just look at the map, you can tell how much bigger Russia is. And I know a lot of that's deceptive because it's Siberia and it's that weird map where it makes Russia look bigger than it really is. But still, in terms of, GDP and in terms of manpower, in terms of ability to turn out shells. I don't know, exactly.

I mean, after all, they've held out for almost a year. You know, and America and our allies do have a hell of a lot of money and weapons to pour in there. And they've had months and months to train up, some forces to use some of this heavier equipment or, you know, longer range and more sophisticated equipment in the war. So I don't really know how to measure all those things myself. but certainly it looks like right now the Russians don't have the ability or at least they have not yet deployed the ability to take as much of the east as they want

they've had to withdraw in major places on the other hand nobody believes and the Biden government told the Washington Post nobody believes that the Ukrainians have the ability to force them all the way out either so looks like I know where there's an oak table y'all could sit down at rack there's there's no other option here really the line is only going to change a little bit

but this has to come down to negotiation now don't you think well you know a couple of things there first of all i mean the russians are very risk-averse when it comes to losing personnel and i think that's why we're not seeing this you know grinding and and the way they're fighting this all right now is to grind ukraine down into the ground and that's working pretty well they have the ability to hit anything anywhere uh they want to so why would you send a hundred thousand men to get crushed when you can slowly grind. I know the colonel has said this. I'm not a military strategist. He is.

And he said there's this weird idea among people who are not military people that taking in holding territory is the key to winning a war. He said, that's not the case. The way to win a war is to grind your enemy down and destroy your enemy. And that seems to be what's happening right now and what they're doing. And you don't see, I mean, you're right. I mean, in Kurson and up north in Karkov, those were. were both taken because the Russians withdrew instead of standing and fighting, because they viewed

it as untenable to try to hold this territory. But in the process, at least from everything that I've read, they lost an enormous amount of military personnel. And those can't be replaced. So it's, I mean, for the Ukrainians, I mean, at some point, there's going to be pressure maybe from his own people, although as soon as anyone stands up and says anything, they could cut down. How many parties, political parties, has he banned, like eight or nine parties so far? But at some point, his own people are going to get tired of what's happening, and maybe that's where the pressure will come from. Or, you know, like it always happens, the U.S. government will just cut their puppet loose.

You know, all of these guys worked for us, Noriega, Saddam, Gaddafi. They were all our guys until we decided to cut the strings. and that may be what happens. And I think you're seeing a hint of that. I mean, the guy's becoming a liability. He's becoming unhinged. And I think obviously now we're seeing that even the White House is angry and perhaps even embarrassed by the real Zelensky without his, what is that thing that saints have over

their head, right? That's getting tarnished. Yeah, seriously. All right, now let me change the subject on you here for a minute. I see that you and Ron did an episode here about this FTX. thing in the jig and I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to watch it yet but I'm interested of what you guys found about just exactly what was going on with this thing apparently it was involving a lot of money laundering for the Democrats or some kind of deal yeah and it's hard and

we didn't pretend to have the answers and that's why the title of the show was a question but you know a lot of the stuff we were reading it looks like a classic kind of Ponzi and monday laundering scheme whereby, you know, U.S. foreign aid, i.e. taxpayers' money, went to Ukraine. Ukraine invested heavily into FTX, and then that money ended up in the campaign funds of not only Democrats, but primarily Democrats. Some Republicans got the money as well. But, you know, this fellow freed was a bankman freed, was, as you know, the second largest donor to the Democrat party after George Soros. So we're talking 40, 50 million bucks he spent on Democrat candidates. So I mean, I forget who else said this, but, you know, there was a time where there would be

the Washington Post or New York Times all over this story. I mean, if we were living in a normal era, there's a Pulitzer out there just waiting to be snatched, digging in to the what was happening really behind the scenes on all this. But as it stands, and even, Elon Musk said this. He said, citizen journalists on Twitter are doing a better job uncovering the details at FTX than the so-called mainstream media. So that's unfortunately. And I can't, I can't believe that if it wasn't, you know, I hate this word aboutism, but if it wasn't a Republican, if it was, say it was Trump and his family that were involved in this somehow, we would see finally the sleeping giant at the Washington Post awaken and begin to relearn critical journalistic

skills, investigative skills. Yeah. Now, let me ask you this. And I know you just said you ain't the expert and I'm not trying to put you on the spot about it or whatever, but I just saw a thing just going around everywhere about how the money that this guy was raising and sending the Ukraine, that it was all somehow being funneled back to the Democrats. But I never saw a source for that part. Now, I wonder if you ever saw anything that was saying that. Well, no, I mean, that's what needs to be dug up. I mean, that's what was said. It's been said by several people. that have looked into it um but see i never found that all i found was people claiming that but without claiming that they were the ones who discovered it and here's how they know or anything like

that yeah just seemed like um he was he was funneling money from wall street and from whatever you know suckers out in sucker land into the democrats and into ukraine but what was the part about the money from ukraine going back to the democrats i never saw i never saw that yeah absolutely i mean it needs to be investigated and again that's why we have a question mark As we were talking about, here's what people are claiming, you know, it should be looked at. I mean, you should look at more of what's going on here. There's clearly a lot more than meets the eye. I mean, people have said that this really, the made-off scandal is paled in comparison by the depth of this.

They had like 600 grand in cash or in actual assets, but it was like six or seven billion on the books that they had. I mean, it's just, it's just crazy, crazy numbers. Yep. Yeah, well, and all of this is, as Dr. Paul would teach us, this is all bubble activity, man. Yeah. The economy is just frothing with all this artificially expanded bank credit and government spending and just led to these massive bubbles all over the place, along with the widespread price inflation. You have these massive bubbles that are being corrected all over the damn place.

you know yeah and also the stakes are so high in politics why would you why would you spend like 30 million or 50 million or whatever they spend on some seat that pays 170 grand a year you know i mean it's it's because of the stakes and i just got an email from a good friend of my winslow wheeler i'm sure you know winslow yeah but he wrote a nice little email talking about you know politico which he said he used to have a lot of respect for but they're literally sponsored by lockheed martin i've Yeah, you saw they had this conference where they worked with Lockheed Martin to put on a at a crossroads, America's defense strategy. And the whole thing was a puff, you know, a puff event for Lockheed Martin, you know. I mean, it's just, it's just unbelievable the deep, deep corruption and the strength of the military manufacturers in D.C.

They're the ones that make the policy, you know, our foreign policies for sale. and they're the ones that are, you know, they were kind of denied that for two years during COVID. It was the medical tyranny, the medical industrial complex that got the money. And now they're roaring back with a vengeance to get their fair share. Yeah. Well, you know, everybody can look up Andrew Coburn at Harper's Magazine where he talks about his source. Was that a breakfast among a bunch of corporate, you know, whatever, chiefing guys there, in Crystal City right outside

that's like where all the Pentagon tied businesses are and stuff and that when they heard that oh the little green men have left their bases and are seizing the Crimean Peninsula they all toasted and celebrated they were I believe the word is ecstatic

something very close to that as they you know clink their orange juice glasses and celebrated that like get it get it it's a whole new cold war right They have party times. They're imagining an entire generation or two or three more of endless face-off, Cold War,

brinksmanship with Russia and all of that free money. That's all they care about. Humanity, even surviving the sensory, be damned, you know? Yeah. That's why I've always felt we have to decouple the middle America with the idea that supporting this thuggery is patriotic. The military industrial complex, even if you love that military and love them soldiers, guess what? These guys couldn't care less about the soldiers. That's a joke to them.

It's all about getting richer than they are. And as soon as we can convince Middle America of this, that's, I think, when we're going to start to turn the corner. Yeah. Listen, there's a famous quote of Henry Kissinger saying that military men, this is a quote of Henry Kissinger. Don't anybody steal this out of context. that military men are big, dumb animals to be used in foreign policy. And then that just sounds crazy. You really say that big, dumb animals?

I don't know. But then guess who the source is? Alexander Hague. And then, guess what? Kissinger didn't deny it. So if you look into that, that's a pretty damn legit quote that he really said that. That's the National Security Advisor Secretary of State of the United States. Yeah, the deep state.

I mean, no wonder the soldiers love Ron Paul so much. didn't feel that way. Yeah, seriously. And you know what? I'm really glad you brought that up because it took me a while to get my head around this. I don't know, maybe a soldier just outright said this to me, and I later remembered it as an insight. But I finally figured it out about how regular government employees, they don't give a damn about their oath to the Constitution. That doesn't mean a thing. That's just a thing you say while you check a box and get your job and whatever. You know, like a citizens don't have to take an oath to the Constitution. It's the law that bonds. It's the law that the power of state actors, you know, it's the limit of their power.

And so that's why we make them take that oath. It doesn't mean a damn thing to some guy at the IRS or the Department of Housing and Urban Development or your local police department. But to these soldiers, this is sacred like baby Jesus. This is everything because they're risking everything, killing people and risking being killed. in fact seeing their buddies killed right in front of their eyes and they're doing it all in the name of that oath or at least they're putting it on the line to do it in the name of that oath

so to them that oath to the Constitution and the Constitution itself is a whole different thing it might as well be the Ten Commandments come from the Mount right this is a sacred obligation that they have taken to defend it they think with fire right And then, by the time Ron Paul comes to public attention in 2008, they know they've been used. They know they've been taken advantage of. You send me to Iraq to protect my mama and sister, liar, you know, and they knew it. And then they needed a Republican to be able to say that it was okay for them to say it to.

And then just like you say, and for people who don't know, Ron Paul raised more money from active duty and retired military during 2008 and 2012 than all the other Republican candidates. And in 12, you could include Obama on the other side and compare his donations and add his donations to the rest of the Republicans. And Ron still beat them because he stood for the Constitution for real. He stood for what those men thought that they were swearing their oath to. Yeah, exactly. I can't add anything to that, Scott. That's extremely well put. Good old Ron, Paul.

I love that guy. I'm so jealousy you get to hang out with him every day. He's a very funny guy. Yeah. Yeah, he's great. all right listen man um thank you so much for coming on the show i always appreciate your insight and uh i love this article taking josh rogan to task he deserves it wapo neocon josh rogan republicans responsible for ukraine loss yeah right and we republish that too at antiwar dot com thanks very much dan

thanks god thanks so much the scott horton show an anti war radio can be heard on kpfk 90.7 fm in L.A. APSRadio.com, anti-war.com, Scott Horton.org, and Libertarian Institute.org.