Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 12/19/24 Connor Freeman on Israel’s Crimes in Gaza and Syria
Episode Date: December 24, 2024Connor Freeman joined Scott on Antiwar Radio to discuss the ongoing slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza. Freeman breaks down the death toll and the ratio of civilians to combatants revealed in the newes...t report from the analysts at Airwars. They also talk about the dynamic in the Middle East after the fall of Assad’s government in Syria. Discussed on the show: “Patterns of harm analysis” (Airwars.org) “Haaretz: Israeli Soldiers Kill Civilians and Count Them as Terrorists” (Antiwar.com) “Letter to President Biden and Vice President Harris” (Gaza Healthcare Letters) Connor Freeman is the Assistant Editor of the Libertarian Institute, primarily covering foreign policy. He is a co-host on Conflicts of Interest. His writing has been featured in media outlets such as Antiwar.com and Counterpunch, as well as the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity. You can follow him on Twitter @FreemansMind96 This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Robers Brokerage Incorporated; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
For Pacifica Radio, December the 19th, 2004, I'm Scott Horton.
This is Anti-War Radio.
All right, y'all welcome the show.
It is Anti-War Radio.
I'm your host, Scott Horton.
I'm the editorial director of Anti-War.com, and I'm the author of the new book, Provoked.
how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine.
You can find my full interview archive, more than 6,000 of them now going back to 2003
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And welcoming back to the show, Connor Freeman, he is assistant editor at the Institute and at anti-war.com.
Welcome back to the show. How are you doing, Connor?
I'm doing great, Scott. Thanks for having me back on.
Very happy to have you here. And we got a lot of bad news to cover.
And because of the goings-on in Syria, I think we've been a little bit neglectful of the civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip, which is, of course, the most important thing going on, whether the news cycle says so or not.
We have our own new cycle here on anti-war radio and at anti-war.com.
So let us know the latest out of the Gaza Strip, please.
Absolutely.
So the latest Gaza Health Ministry numbers are about 45,192 people killed, including 17,492 children.
Well over 107,000 people have been injured.
We're looking at 107,338.
And, of course, the number of people that are missing or presumed dead.
under the rubble is still over 11,000. Those numbers are more than a year old in terms of how many
people have been missing under the rubble. The thing you have to keep in mind, of course,
is that every time the Gaza Health Ministry puts out these numbers every day around noon
local time, accounting for how many people the Israelis have slaughtered over the past, over the
previous 24-hour period, they always say the same thing, that there are more people who are dead
on the streets or buried under the sands or under the rubble, but our civil defense crews and our
ambulance crews cannot reach them. And this is because of the way the war is being carried out
because of all the constant airstrikes. And so the most critical thing here to keep in mind is,
you know, Gaza is only 25 miles long, 25 miles long by five miles wide. And according to the UN,
as a result of the wholesale destruction of all the infrastructure in the strip, we are currently looking
at a strip of land here that's covered in 40 million tons of rubble. So you can just imagine that after a
year and three months of this genocidal campaign and the way it's being conducted, the numbers
of people who are actually dead under the rubble must be enormous at this point. But the figure still
stands at 11,000. But as I say, that's been the case since November of 2023. Well, and Connor,
that's so important because, of course, the common narrative, like you might read in the New York
Post, for example, is that all these numbers are exaggerated. And I think they even have a new study
proving so. But then there was also a new study by Air Wars, which I think argued the other way.
Can you talk about those? Absolutely. Yeah. So the Air Wars report is devastating. Okay. So this
This report came out last week, and it found that in the first month of the war on Gaza in October,
just the first 25 days of the campaign beginning on October 7th, they looked at 606 incidents of
civilian harm and found only 32 to 60 militants have been killed in these strikes.
So based on the number of civilians that were killed in the same period, which is over 5,000,
at 5,139, the civilian to combat, civilian casualty to militant ratio is at its most conservative,
85 to 1.
And the lower estimate of 32 militants killed brings the ratio to 160 to 1.
Now, the Zionists and pro-Israel sort of talking heads in the media always say that this is the most humane
war that's ever been fought.
We have such a better civilian to combatant ratio here, which we can't avoid killing
civilians, but it's such a better ratio than you find in any of these modern wars, and
they'll point to America and they'll say that we have a better rate here.
But we've all known from looking at the absolute destruction of the strip from all the apartment
buildings, all of the shelters, all of the schools, all of the hospitals, all of the homes
that have been destroyed, the water, the sewage systems, the bakeries, the grocery stores,
the marketplaces, everything that's been bombed.
We know that they've been killing far more civilians than what they claim.
Because all of this is based on this artificial number that the Israelis have been using
since the beginning of the war, where they'll just make up a number of Hamas fighters that
they've killed.
And there's a recent story in Harat's about this as well, about how in the Netzerim corridor,
where they're currently carrying out, well, it's part, it's the strip of land that they've created
that bisects the northern part of the strip from the central and southern parts of the strip.
And, of course, in the north, since early October, they've been carrying out this extermination
plan, this ethnic cleansing plan, where they've basically put the entire area under a full siege
and they are telling people to leave and bombing every last home, every last apartment,
in every last building that can sustain any kind of life
for the people who have already been displaced so many times
that they just refuse to leave now
because they know the safe zones,
they're only just going to get attacked there anyway,
whether it's al-Mawesi or anywhere else in the south.
And so they have these kill zones the IDF has
where they just shoot civilians for fun.
They try and see who can kill the most Palestinians in one day.
And they just say that if you cross this imaginary line,
as we know from previous reporting in 972 magazine,
which is a Tel Aviv-based outlet,
that they just deem you a militant,
even if you're just a civilian.
There's a story in this recent Hart's piece
where they riddled a 16-year-old boy with bullets.
Just, you know, for, it sounds like for a minute or two,
they just kept shooting and shooting and shooting.
And then it was revealed that it was just an innocent,
you know, 16-year-old civilian.
But he was, you know, documented as,
a militant killed, you know, I guess a fighting age male or something. Just once they cross
that line, you are now a legitimate target. And this is, you know, part and parcel of the
policy of just claiming, you know, as they did early on in the war, well, they'll say, well,
we killed 5,000 Hamas militants. We killed 7,000. So if you go by those IDF numbers, then you
can artificially create this propaganda that they're actually, you know, killing militants.
but it's civilians are being killed, but it's, you know, it's light collateral damage in the
process of our war on Hamas. But of course, it's not a war on Hamas. It's a war on the Palestinian civilians,
these Muslims and Christians, the indigenous population of Palestine, who, you know, these people
were ethnically cleansed into Gaza after the Nakba in 1948. These are mostly refugees or the
children and grandchildren of refugees. And they're being exterminated, particularly in the North
right now under what's called the General's Plan, which was promoted by Giora Island, a former
major general in the IDF. And they have, like I said, they're starving the people out,
destroying all the hospitals, destroying all the homes, and then making sure that they can
never return. And those are the areas where it appears that settlement expansion will begin
first. And we've been seeing reports in recent weeks, Scott, of Israeli settlers and settler
leaders, excuse me, taking tours of the Gaza Strip, scouting out locations for when they're going
to move in. And of course, the worst hawks in Netanyahu's coalition, including Bezal-Smote Rich,
are thrilled at the prospect of the Donald Trump administration because they believe he will
support them in their efforts to settle Gaza, let alone the West Bank. But that's more off
in the future. I think they're going to really move into Gaza first.
All right, it's anti-war radio. I'm Scott Horton talking with Connor Freeman from anti-war.com.
And this thing about the freefire zone here, again, it's the top headline at anti-war.com today, but it's also, it's from Horarets.
It's Israeli journalism. They're essentially the New York Times of Israel for all the good and bad that that connotates there, I guess.
But this is not some made-up stuff. Anybody can go and check the resources yourself.
Uh, firsthand. This is military, Israeli, military sources talking to probably the most important
Israeli newspaper telling them that this is how they do it. And, you know, what you describe is
exactly like what happened in Bucha, in, um, in Ukraine, the suburb of Kiev, just at the time of,
or small city, you know, adjacent to it, uh, just at the time that they were, uh, scotching the peace
talks and making sure to prolong the war in the spring of 2022 and the Russians had committed
an atrocity where they did exactly this same thing. They called it, they had an imaginary line
and then they said that any person who crosses this line, it's okay to blow them away, even if
it's a lady on a bicycle. And the New York Times, I'll give them the credit for it. It's clearly
solid reporting that they did on this where Lisa's solid.
dozen or two dozen i forget the exact number but it was somewhere around there of people who had
ridden down this street once they got to the corner they were blown away by the russian forces
now they claim military necessity because they were about to invade down that street and they
needed to keep it clear that was their excuse for it but at the time connor the u.s government
called that genocide in buca buccia however i'm sorry i always say it wrong um and they use that as
excuse to ruin the talks. They said, you can't have peace talks with people who are so brutal
that they would kill so many civilians. You have to keep a war against the enemy like that going.
Everybody follow the logic there? And so instead of ending the war, they've gotten hundreds of
thousands more people killed and wounded since then in this horrific war as it's been going on
in Ukraine since then. But that was what they said. They said to have a
fire zone like this and kill a couple of dozen people have an imaginary line that civilians
can't see that'll get them blown away for crossing it that's the ultimate evil according to
the u.s government when russia does it in ukraine and yet that's the exact same thing that
you're talking about here only you're not talking about this going on for a week or four or five
days or whatever it was here you're talking about this going on for now a year in a row
or on this particular line, how long is it?
Do they say that in there?
How long this particular line has been drawn there
and that they kill people in this way?
Well, the report that I was referring to
from 972 MAG from earlier in the year,
that was back in July.
And this was when they were interviewing IDF soldiers
who discussed how they were so bored,
they get bored and they just start shooting Palestinians.
And so this has been going on for months and months.
I imagine it's only gotten drastically worse since the general's plan was implemented in the
north. And that would have been since early October. So we're looking at approximately at least
six months of these policies. But I mean, it's more likely that we just got the reporting
at that time. And now, but this is the same, this is the same story that's being now reaffirmed
by Ha Retz in this piece. Is that right? Exactly. So in other words, so that establishes that
there's been going on at least in the time between then and, you know, leading up to that
first report and since. So the better part of a year at minimum, right? Yes. And I should
clarify that regarding the Air Wars report, you know, I'm, I was, you know, my, I was talking
about the Israeli, the pro-Israel hawks in the United States who do so much lying about
the civilian to combat, civilian to combat and ratio that I got a little bit sidetrack.
But what's important here is that in the report, they explain Air Wars does, that based on their data, this is nearly four times more civilians reported killed in a single month than in any conflict Air Wars has documented since it was established in 2014.
So out of those 5,139 civilians that were killed, 1,900 of them were children.
And so this is nearly seven times higher, Air Wars says, than even the most deadly month for children previously recorded by Air Wars.
in any conflict zone.
And 1,213 women were killed in those same 606 incidents.
And they say women and children are primarily being killed in residential built,
at least in this data set, primarily killed in residential buildings in strikes
where, you know, they're killing many members of the same family.
We hear reports constantly out of Gaza were like in one strike and an extended family just
gets wiped out.
So they say families were killed together in unprecedented numbers and in their homes.
More than nine out of ten women and children were killed in residential buildings in more than 95% of all cases where a woman was killed, at least one child was also killed.
And this is why we've seen since we've been getting, since we've been following this war since it began, that the primary victims here are, in fact, women and children.
And, you know, not Hamas militants. I mean, it's the biggest lie ever that this is a war on Hamas.
as you and I have documented in our article, Netanyahu's support for Hamas backfired.
The Lakou Party has never had any problem supporting Hamas.
This is capitalizing on a cassis belly of the October 7th attack on military and civilian targets back on October 7th,
when Hamas broke out of the Gaza prison, and they've been using this as the excuse to carry out
a predetermined annexationist agenda, which is favored now more than ever within Israel's
far-right coalition. As I mentioned, Bezlo Smoat-Rich earlier, Idemar, Ben-Gavir, the National Security
Minister, and a whole host of Lekudnik, MKs, and ministers who are promoting this kind of a policy.
And they have these, you know, resettled Gaza conferences where they just will flat out tell
you exactly what their plans are. And they're going to go into Gaza and settle with hundreds
and hundreds of families. They're going to take these people's land. In fact, there's this, you know,
There's a lot of hype currently about a potential ceasefire agreement being inked between Hamas and Israel before Donald Trump enters the Oval Office because, well, for one thing, Donald Trump is threatened that, you know, get this, his message to the people of Gaza is if they don't release the hostages, because as he said, everybody's talking about the hostages. It's all you ever hear. Then if they don't do that, then there's going to be all hell to pay in Gaza.
know, what more can you do to these people?
According to the 99 American doctors and surgeons and nurses and nurse practitioners
who've spent a combined, you know, over 250 weeks in Gaza, their open letter to Joe Biden
back in October said that the death toll is at least over 118,000, including tens of thousands
of people who have starved to death as a result of the brutal siege blocking all medicine,
medical equipment and food and other vital humanitarian aid into the strip. And, you know, they also
talk about the fact that, you know, we mentioned earlier the kill zones and how they're shooting
Palestinians for fun here and trying to see who can kill the most in one day or which unit can beat
the other unit and how many Palestinians they can kill in a day. As one of the quotes from that
article from Harad says, you know, if one unit kills 150, then we have to try and kill 200 the next
time. And, but they mentioned that these doctors and these nurses that every single day, every
single one of them treated children who had been shot in the head and in the chest. And they're not
talking about like, you know, you'll often hear from the, the pro-Israel side here, oh, children, right?
Yeah, what age were they? You know, implying that if they're teenagers or something, they're not
really kids. But this is, according to the doctors, we're not talking about teenagers. We're
talking about toddlers being shot in the head and shot in the head twice or shot in the head
and the chest. And they make clear these are some of the most highly trained snipers in the
world. This is the idea if we're talking about. Nobody shoots a toddler in the head by accident
or a toddler in the chest and the head by accident. This is all deliberate and would happen
multiple times every single day. As Dr. Mark Perlmutter pointed out, you know, this is this becomes
a regular occurrence. I mean, there's a, he even said one of the most horrific lines from that letter is
Gaza is the first time I held a baby's brains in my hand, the first of many.
They all make clear, by the way, that when they got to Gaza, the level of carnage that they
witnessed and mayhem dwarfed anything that they'd ever seen before in any other conflict
zone after any sort of natural disaster or at ground zero after 9-11, it's just the level
of carnage being unleashed upon the Palestinian people, men, women, and children is unfathomable,
this ultraviolence.
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It's Anti-War Radio on KPFK in L.A.
I'm talking with Connor Freeman from anti-war.com.
And, Conner, I have a clip here of Dr. Mark Pullmutter talking to a journalist here.
It's a short clip.
And I just thought, if we're going to make these claims, let's go ahead and hear it from the horse's mouth if we can.
You're saying that children in Gaza are being shot by snipers.
Definitively, I have two children that I have photographs of that were shot so perfectly in the chest.
I couldn't put my stethoscope over their heart more accurately and directly on the side of the head in the same child.
No toddler get shot twice by mistake by the world's best sniper.
And they're dead center shots.
All of the disasters I've seen combined, combined.
40 mission trips, 30 years, ground zero, earthquakes, all of that combined doesn't equal the level of carnage that I saw against civilians in just my first week in Gaza.
And when you say civilians, is it mostly children?
Almost exclusively children.
I've never seen that before.
Never seen that.
I've seen more incinerated children
than I've ever seen in my entire life combined.
I've seen more shredded children in just the first week.
Shredded?
Shredded.
What do you mean?
Missing body parts.
Being crushed by buildings, the greatest majority.
Or bomb explosions, the next greatest majority.
We've taken shrapnel as big as my thumb out of eight-year-olds, and then there's sniper bullets.
I have children that were shot twice.
It's the sickest thing in the world.
We've seen video after video, live streamed into every American home, anybody that has an internet connection, laptop or a phone,
and you've seen countless videos of children pulled out of rubble who have had just this experience, and they're dead.
and this is what the American government is unleashing upon the Palestinian people in front of
the whole world. It's extermination.
And look, that's maybe the most important point of all here is the responsibility of President
Joe Biden and his government for all this. But how do you make that connection? Aren't we
talking about what the government of Israel is doing, Connor Freeman? Yeah, well, the American people
should know that we're funding 70% of this entire war. And you can look at,
There's, you know, several Israeli sources on this, you know, the top air, one of the top
air force officials told Harat's a couple of months ago that, look, with without a constant
American aid, we couldn't sustain these operations for more than a few months.
And if you look at the amount of money that's been spent on the war, it's 70%.
Every single dollar, 70 cents of it is American money.
And again, this is the case that for many years, the United States has provided 69% of all of Israel's military aid.
The Germans pick up the rest of the, they pick up about 30% of that.
And then the rest is from other sources.
But it's absolutely the Americans war.
We provide the intelligence.
We provide the diplomatic support.
We provide thousands and thousands of 2,000-pound bombs, the bunker busters.
the planes, all the different kinds of guns and munitions and the tank shells and the artillery,
and we're constantly told that this is just indispensable.
This is our greatest ally when, in fact, and again, this is the most important thing for people
to understand, is that we are exterminating the Palestinian people in front of the whole world.
There's no ambiguity about it whatsoever.
Amnesty International just came out with a report saying that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.
This is the top human rights organization.
Well, and Human Rights Watch, too.
Brand new out yesterday.
Human Rights Watch and Amnesty both now.
And I'm sorry because we're so short on time.
We're doing live radio here in L.A. on KPFK.
We got Connor Freeman from Anti-War.com.
And we've got to talk about Israel in Syria.
We can't do the whole Syria war.
But ever since Al-Qaeda overthrew the government in Damascus a couple of weeks ago,
the Israelis have, one, been bombing the place and two, making moves on the ground.
So please catch us up with that, Connor.
Yeah, absolutely.
So after the overthrow of Bashar al-Assad,
after he fled to Russia, Benjamin Netanyahu put out a video celebrating how great this is,
calling it a historic day for the Middle East and saying, you know, this wouldn't have been possible,
just like Joe Biden.
Joe Biden and Benjamin Netanyahu have been Pat and Netanyahu on the back saying, this would
have been impossible, have we not decimated Hezbollah and taken on Iran and other elements of
the axis of resistance.
And we're the ones who put Assad in such a defenseless position with Hezbollah, not
able to back him up and support him here against the jihadists. We're the reason that Jalani is
sitting on the throne, Abu Muhammad al-Jalani, the former ISIS deputy commander under Baghdaddy
and founder of the Syrian al-Qaeda affiliate, the Al-Nusra Front, which is what HTS-Hayat-Tihara
al-Sham is. It's just been rebranded because he's following a sort of Western playbook
in terms of the public relations here so that they can get away with, you know, pretty
soon, Scott, they're talking about apparently American officials in Politico. It says they're
scrambling to find out how and when and how soon we can lift the terrorist designation on HTS.
And there's still a $10 million bounty on Jalani's head. This guy is as al-Qaeda as they come.
And he's now sitting on throne, Damascus. Now, Israel immediately after the after the Assad regime
felt began launching massive air strikes on all of the military equipment, the air defenses, the warehouses,
the ammo depots, the bases that were left behind by the Syrians in Tardis and Latakia and
Damascus and Holmes and Palmyra. And they've at this point carried out over 800 air strikes in
Syria. One in Tartis, and Dave DeCamp covered this at antiwar.com, just this past weekend, I guess it was
on the page on Monday. They bombed Tartis with a bomb so large. It caused a three point, I believe
it was a 3.1 earthquake on the Richter scale.
Well, yeah, because they hit a weapons depot, right?
Is what happened.
But still, I mean, apparently civilians, according to Almaydin, I believe the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, they said that civilians were killed in this strike as well.
I would not be surprised to that.
If anybody saw that footage, some amateurs thought it must have been a nuke to have been that big.
It was not.
But it was a mushroom cloud.
It was a massive explosion.
Yes.
And now they're settling, they're surging the illegal settlement of the occupied goal.
Heights, of course, never let a crisis go to waste.
But they've also expanded beyond the Occupy Goal and Heights and they're taking the buffer
zone, which was, you know, which was run by Undoff, the UN Disengagement Observation
Force since 1974.
And their argument is that the Syrians guarding their side of the line here of the buffer
zone, which separates the Golan Heights from the rest of Syria, they're no longer there.
the Israelis have taken the opportunity to go into the buffer zone, take the land there,
and now they're expanding beyond that territory. And they've come apparently within 15 kilometers
of Damascus. Including taking Mount Herman. Yes. Yes. And they're saying that this is going to be
an indefinite occupation as long as it takes. And get this, they're saying that they have to do this
because, first of all, they need to have a better vantage point on defending against threats from
Hezbollah, but also from the jihadist that Netanyahu was just, uh, back slapping himself
for helping put in power.
Isn't that great?
And so think about that, everybody.
So as, as bad as it was, with Israel bombing Syria all the time, they're usually bombing,
they would say, and I guess credibly some of the time, that it was when Iran would be
transferring weapons to Hezbollah and Lebanon is that's what they would hit.
But they never did this kind of general air war against all of Syria's national military
resources like this not even during the last dirty war 10 years ago did they do anything to go that
far to absolutely destroy and cripple the Syrian military state and here they didn't until
their favored faction and america's favored faction because it's their favored faction alkaida in
Syria succeed in taking Damascus and as soon as they do they go well we got to bomb all that we can't
let this equipment fall into tears hands, can we? And they blow it all up. In other words, conceding
that the new guys are way worse than the old guys. Isn't the head of al-Qaeda in Syria a completely
poned American and Israeli and Turkish satrap? And so then therefore, why should anyone be
concerned about him or his man at all, Connor, do you think? Well, in fact, he's boasting about how he'll
never let Syria become a launching pad, as he says, for attacks on Israel, you know? And he makes
the point that we, our enemies are Hezbollah, the former Assad regime, and the Iranian militias.
That's who their enemy is. And it's always important to remember. And this is why I say it's so
important to keep in mind that we're exterminating the Palestinians in front of the whole world.
This has long been a large, excuse me, a strong al-Qaeda grievance. I mean, the lead hijackers
on 9-11 flew those planes into the towers because of America's support for Israel's brutal
occupation and wars in southern Lebanon and in Palestine.
When it sounds like the Israelis are taking the truth of that into account, that's why
they're bombing what used to be Assad's army now.
All right.
Well, it's anti-war radio.
You can't win them all or maybe any of them.
Thank you very much for your time, Con.
I appreciate it.
Thank you, Scott.
All right, you guys.
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Thank you.