Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 12/22/22 Connor Freeman: Biden Escalates Toward War With Russia

Episode Date: December 25, 2022

Scott’s first guest on Antiwar Radio this week was Connor Freeman, the Assistant Editor at the Libertarian Institute. They talk about the Ukrainian strikes deep in Russian territory, and the apparen...t green light Washington gave Kyiv to carry out more. Their reasoning? Putin hasn’t dropped a nuke yet, so there’s room to escalate. Scott and Freeman talk about the danger of this mindset and also touch on the recent Washington Post story about the lack of evidence that Russia attacked its own gas infrastructure back in September.  Discussed on the show: Rage Against the War Machine Protest “Washington Erases Red Lines, Escalates Proxy War with Russia” (Libertarian Institute) Antiwar News with Dave DeCamp “Road to war: U.S. struggled to convince allies, and Zelensky, of risk of invasion” (Washington Post) “For Western Weapons, the Ukraine War Is a Beta Test” (New York Times) “No conclusive evidence Russia is behind Nord Stream attack” (Washington Post) Connor Freeman is the Assistant Editor of the Libertarian Institute, primarily covering foreign policy. He is a co-host on Conflicts of Interest. His writing has been featured in media outlets such as Antiwar.com and Counterpunch, as well as the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity. You can follow him on Twitter @FreemansMind96 This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; and Thc Hemp Spot. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 For Pacifica Radio, December 22nd, 2022, I'm Scott Horton. This is Anti-War Radio. All right, y'all welcome this show. It is Anti-War Radio. I'm your host, Scott Horton. I'm editorial director of anti-war.com, an editor of the new book, hotter than the sun. Time to abolish nuclear weapons. You can find my full interview archive, more than 5,800 of them now going back to 2003 at Scott Horton.org and at YouTube.com
Starting point is 00:00:42 slash Scott Horton's show. And you can follow me on Twitter at Scott Horton's show. All right, before we get into the interviews today, I want to tell you guys about this anti-war protest we're holding on February the 19th in Washington, D.C. I know that's on the other side of the country from LA, but it's just a few hundred bucks away. And it's called Rage Against the War Machine. It's going to be at the Lincoln Memorial. And the thing is hosted by the Libertarian Party and the People's Party in Alliance. I'm speaking there. So is Medea Benjamin and Jimmy Doer and a bunch of other great people. We're working on trying to get Roger Waters, I think, and others. So please, come on out. Help make the thing a spectacle. Help make it matter.
Starting point is 00:01:30 It's Rage Against War.com to find out more information. Rage Against the War Machine, Anti-War Rally, Washington, D.C., February the 19th, Rage Against War.com. All right. Now, our first guest on the show today is anti-war.com assistant editor, Connor Freeman. Welcome to the show. Connor, how are you, sir? I'm doing great, Scott. How are you?
Starting point is 00:01:54 I'm doing great. Really appreciate you joining us on the show here today. We've got some really important stuff to talk about. your latest piece is called Washington Erases Red Lines, Escalates Proxy War with Russia. Now, of course, last night Vladimir Zelensky came and gave a speech to Congress asking for more money and more weapons. And I think the context here, Connor, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the Russians have been reported to be building up a major force on their side of the border there for an upcoming, enter offensive, which I guess could come at any time. And I'm not sure if you saw that article in The Economist, an interview with the head of Ukraine's military, who was not talking so much
Starting point is 00:02:42 about defeating Russia as much as about his desperate need for more weapons in order to fend off that imminent invasion. And now, in your piece, Washington Erasic Red Lines escalates proxy war with Russia. You're talking about these recent strikes that took place inside Russia that I take at the London Times gave credit to the Americans for giving the green light for Ukraine to proceed with attacks across the border. Yeah, it appears that way. I mean, so these were these attacks, these drone strikes that were carried out on December 5th and 6 on three separate Russian airfields. I believe three Russian soldiers were killed, two nuclear capable, strategic bombers were damaged, and an oil tanker was also damaged. And this was pretty unprecedented. I mean,
Starting point is 00:03:38 Ukraine has carried out attacks, you know, in Russian territory throughout the war. There have been helicopter and drone and other attacks on, you know, civilian areas, residential areas, oil depots, villages. But much of these attacks have occurred closer to the border with Ukraine, the share border. And there have been as well. I mean, there was an assassination outside Moscow where Kiev killed in this brutal car bomb assassination murdered Degina, the daughter of Alexander Duggan. She's a political scientist and journalist, and he's the Russian nationalist philosophers,
Starting point is 00:04:16 usually there's a lot of propaganda in the Western press about how he's Putin's brain And that's all bogus, but that's besides the point. They actually make the point in this article, this U.S. defense source talking to the Times of London, who says, yeah, like you said, that they have changed their calculus, that they are giving a green light now to these attacks deep inside Russian territory and that they're now going to consider providing longer range missiles, rockets and fighter bombers that were previously off the table because they say, well, you know, the Russian. And Vladimir Putin hasn't launched a tactical nuclear, he hasn't dropped a tactical nuke on Ukraine. And it's not like he's attacked a NATO member state. So I feel like we can just go
Starting point is 00:05:00 ahead and just give him the green light to keep on doing this. And they're saying the quote is that they're going to provide them, what I said, these other military equipment to have more, you know, intense strikes inside Russia, just like this. And so one of the things that they actually say, another thing that's ridiculous is they say, we don't tell them, don't attack Crimea, don't attack Russia. That's their decision. The only thing we ask is that they abide by international laws of war and the Geneva Conventions. And they go, we don't want them to carry out assassinations or attack families. And they've been compliant with that. But that's just a lie. The U.S. intelligence, it spoke to the New York Times months back and said that, yeah, no, Ukraine is responsible
Starting point is 00:05:43 for this car bomb killing of Dari Degina. And what the real point in my article is that, you know, they are just erasing this red line based on the fact that Putin hasn't used to nuke or attacked a NATO member yet. So we're going to go ahead and up the ante until what? Until he actually does? You know, it's it's completely nonsensical. But on top of that, this week, actually on Sunday, there was more shelling in Belgarod, which has been attacked throughout the war by Ukrainian forces. One person was killed, I believe a contractor working on a poultry farm. Eight different people were wounded. And the farm was damaged. And then the following day, the Russian Defense Ministry said that they had intercepted four
Starting point is 00:06:25 anti-radar missiles, which the U.S. has been providing Ukraine. And these are the AGM, I think they're AGM-88 harm anti-radar missiles, something like that. And they intercepted these. So there's going, I mean, just since this article and just sent, obviously this is materializing and we're seeing more attacks on Russia as a result of this green light. And we're seeing other unprecedented steps as well because the U.S. now, you just mentioned earlier, Zelensky's trip to D.C., they've also announced now that they're going to bring in the Patriot missiles. And they announced almost a $2 billion arms package yesterday. It's a billion dollars in the presidential drawdown authority. This is coming from U.S. stockpiles. And then another $850 million from the Ukraine Security Defense Initiative. And that's where the U.S. buys weapons from contractors to send to Ukraine. and, you know, I was listening to Dave DeCamp's show of anti-war news with Dave DeCamp this morning, and he made an interesting point that the Patriot missiles cost a billion dollars.
Starting point is 00:07:28 And so I don't know if there's a discrepancy because of the way the PDA works, but that, you know, it seems like they're fudging the numbers if that's only $1.85 billion. But on top of that, now they've announced that they're going to give Ukraine another $45 billion dollars in this massive $1.7 trillion omnibus spending package that is going to be passed here before tomorrow to avoid a government shutdown. And that, of course, includes the $8.58 billion NDAA. But now we've spent well over $100 billion on this war already. I mean, this is dwarfing the Russian defense budget. And so, I mean, we are really, and what I was saying earlier about the attacking Russian territory, this policy, this, these devastating, I mean, they're sending
Starting point is 00:08:13 the Patriot missiles as a way of saying, hey, we're going to help them out because look at all the bombing of the civilian infrastructure. But this is all a result of America's policy of encouraging Ukraine to attack Crimea, which of course Russia annexed in 2014. We've had the State Department and NATO leadership and Congress and Nancy Pelosi going to the Crimean platform and voicing support for this whole, you know, the de-occupation of Crimea. And we have, you know, the White House encouraging all of this. And these attacks on the Kerch Bridge, which connects Crimea to the Russian mainland, and these other attacks that have gone on throughout the war inside Crimea, where they attack, you know,
Starting point is 00:08:53 airfields and ammunition depots and things like this, this, and particularly the attack on the Kerch Bridge, is what started. You know, it's what provoked Russia into launching this massive strategic bombing campaign against their civilian infrastructure, which has left millions and millions of Ukrainians without heat, water, and electricity in the freezing cold winter right now. And this is being used, of course, just to justify further attacks on these territories that Russia's annexed since the war began or Crimea, and now, of course, deep into the Russian mainland. And we're going to see more and more of this. And then they announce that they're giving them, you know, more than tens of billions of dollars more of weapons.
Starting point is 00:09:32 And then they go, and we'll give you a few tens of millions of dollars to help you repair your power grid. I mean, it's just reprehensible. Hang on just one second. Hey, y'all, the audiobook of my book, Enough Already. Time to End the War on Terrorism is finally done. Yes, of course, read by me. It's available at Audible, Amazon, Apple Books, and soon on Google Play and whatever other options there are out there.
Starting point is 00:09:56 It's my history of America's War on Terrorism from 1979 through today. Give it a listen and see if you agree. It's time to just come home. Enough already. Time to end the war on terrorism. The audiobook. Hey, guys, I've had a lot of great webmasters over the years, but the team at Expanddesigns.com have by far been the most competent and reliable.
Starting point is 00:10:20 Harley Abbott and his team have made great sites for the show and the Institute, and they keep them running well, suggesting and making improvements all along. Make a deal with Expanddesigns.com for your new business or news site. They will take care of you. Use the promo code Scott and save $500. That's Expand Designs. man i wish i was in school so i could drop out and sign up for tom woods's liberty classroom instead thomas done such a great job on putting together a classical curriculum for everyone from junior high schoolers on up through the postgraduate level and it's all very reasonably priced just make
Starting point is 00:10:59 sure you click through from the link in the right margin at scott horton dot org tom woods this liberty classroom real history real economics real education all right we're talking with connor freeman from anti-war.com. And now, you know, the point here, I noticed a lot of people out on the internet really get this wrong about, you know, geez, how could America tell the Ukrainians what to do in this war at all? And the thing is, if we didn't have anything to do with it, then we wouldn't have anything to do with it.
Starting point is 00:11:30 But the fact is, as the New York Times has quoted administration officials admitting all along, America's a co-belligerent in this war. This American weapons. So obviously, it was just Ukraine versus Russia. Of course, they're free to attack inside Russia all they want. If they think it's a good idea, whether it's going to achieve their goals or whether it's going to backfire or whatever, that would simply just be up to them. But instead, the question is whether we provoke a war between Russia and NATO, which would result in the death of a World War II worth the people in the first 30 or 45 minutes of the thing. And that's what we're talking about here.
Starting point is 00:12:06 And but they act like, and I want to go back to this quote because this is really important. And you quote out of the London Times, where they say, well, look, maybe, you know, we were hesitant to help Ukraine attack the Crimean Peninsula and kind of figure that ship had sailed, right? Or attack inside Russia's borders, never mind the newly annexed territories, but inside Russia's borders as of last January. And they haven't nuked us yet. So maybe it's okay to keep going. And that's the thinking here. And it doesn't go much deeper than that. It doesn't sound like, Connor.
Starting point is 00:12:42 No, it's so callous. They actually say in there because, you know, his, the Russian revenge attacks over these attacks inside Russia, they've been really constricted to these conventional bombings of civilian targets in Ukraine. So, you know, that's not that bad then, yeah. No, no, not at all. Right. And now, look, I want to go back to this Washington Post piece from February, or maybe it was
Starting point is 00:13:03 March, where the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Millie, said, listen, rule number two on my strategic goals here is to keep the war geographically limited to Ukraine. And now here we are mission creeping a few months later and maybe we'll just keep hitting targets deeper and deeper inside Russia. Nuclear capable, heavy bombers? Sure, why not? What else to put on the list? You know, they went after Dugan's daughter with a car bomb or went after Dugan with a car bomb. Maybe they'll go after Putin with a car bomb. We're going to support that?
Starting point is 00:13:42 We're risking losing all of our major cities over this. Pretty important, you know, to bring this stuff out where people could talk about it because all you get on most of Twitter and most of the TV is just our government's point of view, which is everything here is fine. Yeah, absolutely. And then if you read the New York Times, the other thing, too, is there was this piece where they're just talking speaking of the callousness i mean they were actually they put out a piece talking about how ukraine is this great testing ground for weapons and boy isn't this
Starting point is 00:14:14 beneficial for us as we fine tune our weapons systems and our uh you know our tech for you know future wars especially with china over taiwan something like that this is really good and they were actually praising the uh innovation of using these like remote drone boats to attack the russian black sea fleet and they talk about a specific attack that occurred in october which nearly jeopardized the entire grain export deal that was brokered by the Turks and the UN between Russia and Ukraine, which has helped to mitigate the global food crisis, especially in the global south, which has been ravaging populations. And they could have completely ruined all of that and starved so many more people in this horrible
Starting point is 00:14:57 situation. But they look at it as like a real plus. Like, yeah, we really did some damage here on the Black Sea Fleet. And, you know, I mean, that's the other thing, too, is like, if you look at the NDAA, they're talking about getting these wartime purchasing powers for the Pentagon so they can offer these no-bid multi-year contracts. And it's all just benefiting Raytheon and Lockheed. And they're talking about how they're going to be, you know, really escalating the production of the javelin anti-tank missiles, the harpoon anti-ship missiles, the stingers, the Himars, and the 155 millimeter artillery rounds, which are supposedly were uncomfortably low as the Wall Street. said with the Pentagon. And they're reporting that we're just running out. But they're going to, they want to triple and then double the production of all these different artillery rounds.
Starting point is 00:15:44 And there's like tens and tens of thousands of these things in the new weapons package listed. And look, I mean, this stuff is not just beside the point, as Katie Johnstone pointed out, when they held a big celebration, celebrating the anniversary of the Ukrainian militaries founding at the embassy in Washington last week, it was literally sponsored by Raytheon, Lockheed, and Northrop Grumman. They don't even know to be embarrassed. It's like when you fly into Reagan Airport.
Starting point is 00:16:12 There's a giant Lockheed building all lit up right there. Welcome to the Imperial Center. And now, listen, last subject real quick here before we go. It's very important. The Washington Post wrote up a new piece about what the CIA believes about the sabotage of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. Tell us real quick, Connor.
Starting point is 00:16:30 What's going on there? Yes. So this is after months of investigations into the attack, and they interviewed 23 diplomats and intelligence officials from nine different countries who were saying that there's just no evidence that Russia carried out the attack. And there's one European official, I think, speaking for all of us, goes, you know, the narrative really never made much sense. And so they're not, they're saying that they don't know, you know, the investigation is ongoing.
Starting point is 00:16:54 Denmark and Sweden are still investigating it. But they're saying that, you know, there were explosives placed on the outside of the pipelines. Of course, we know that Anthony Blinken was celebrating the thing, talking about how this is a tremendous opportunity for us to finally wean Europe off of Russian gas. And if I remember correctly, he said this will provide us a strategic advantage for years to come. And we had Ridek Sikorsky, the former Polish foreign minister who came out and just said, thank you USA on Twitter as soon as the thing happened, posted a picture, as soon as the attack happened. And that's Ann Applebaum's husband, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And former
Starting point is 00:17:30 Polish foreign minister. He's a member of the European Parliament. And leader of the American War Party. All right, listen, I'm sorry, Connor, we got to go, but that's so important. And I appreciate you, you know, touching that base, because people need to know. But that's it. We're out of time. I got to go to our next guest. But thank you for your time. Everybody, it's Connor Freeman, assistant editor at anti-war.com. Thank you. Thank you, Scott. And that's it for anti-war radio for today. Thanks everybody for listening. I'm Scott Horton. and find the full archive at Scott Horton.org, and I'm here every Thursday from 2.30 to 3 on KPFK, 90.7 FM in L.A.
Starting point is 00:18:06 See you next week.

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