Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 12/7/23 Daniel McAdams on the Ukraine War in American Politics

Episode Date: December 9, 2023

Daniel McAdams on the Ron Paul Institute joins the show to discuss the war in Ukraine. Washington’s unending support for Kyiv recently hit a snag in Congress. Scott and McAdams discuss the current funding holdup as well as the broader evolving dynamic the war faces in American politics. Discussed on the show: “Miscalculations, divisions marked offensive planning by U.S., Ukraine” (Washington Post) “In Ukraine, a war of incremental gains as counteroffensive stalls” (Washington Post) “What Would Happen If the US Stopped Supporting Ukraine?” (Mises.org) Ramaswamy’s exchange with Fox News's Brian Kilmeade Scott’s interview with John Robb Ron Paul Institute Daniel McAdams is the executive director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity and the co-host of the Ron Paul Liberty Report. Follow him on Twitter @DanielLMcAdams and read all of his work over at Antiwar.com. This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show. I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of anti-war.com, author of the book, Fool's Aaron, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and the brand new, enough already, time to end the war on terrorism. And I've recorded more the 5,500 interviews since 2000. almost all on foreign policy and all available for you at scothorton.4 you can sign up the podcast feed there and the full interview archive is also available at youtube.com slash scott horton's show all right you guys next up on the show today is dan mcadams of course he is the director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity co-host of the liberty report with

the great Dr. Ron Paul and a former foreign policy advisor to Dr. Paul back when he was a congressman. Welcome back to the show. Dan, how are you doing, sir? Hey, Scott, thanks so much for having me back. I really appreciate it. Well, I'm really happy to have you on the show here and I'm really eager to hear what you have to say about current developments in the war in Ukraine. And by that, I think I mostly mean political developments. I'm not sure if too much has changed on the ground there, although I admit I've been a bit distracted by Israel-Palestine lately, but it seems like there's more and more movement in politics in the West as well as in Ukraine. And I just wonder what you think of it all and what effect do you think it's going to have overall on the war.

Well, I mean, I think, again, it's very frustrating, Scott. We talked a lot about this a little bit off-camera, which is that, you know, you spend two years saying certain things going to happen. You're called an idiot and a Putin lover for those two years. And then the mainstream media, realizing that it's happening that way, starts putting out articles saying, you know, the counteroffensive didn't go very well. Oh, Ukraine on the brink, you know, this, that, and the other. So it is very frustrating to have to endure this all the time. You know, the default should just be like every neocon claim is garbage from the get-go. But they get away with it over and over again.

But, yeah, you're seeing mainstream Washington Post had a devastating article early this week. Even the economist, chief cheerleader for this war, they're realizing they have to get out in front of it of this failure. Otherwise, it might look like they've been wrong all along. But politically, it's a big deal. There was a fiasco in the Senate this week where Zelensky was supposed to address a closed door, classified session of senators. Republicans got there, and the whole thing looked like a complete joke. So they left, and Zelensky was tipped off to the president. the fact it was basically an empty room, he flipped out, got super P-Oed and canceled it himself.

So huge fiasco for Ukraine in sort of a last-ditch effort to sweet talk the Americans out of some more money. Yeah, so, I mean, I saw a tweet today that said, was some reporter saying his sources say it's dead for the rest of the year. They're not going to be able to get it through the House of the Senate right now, which is unbelievable. but I guess it's possible. There's only a few days left in session is the problem. But, you know, before anyone starts cheering the Republicans for blocking this funding, they're not against the funding, Scott. And you know this very well.

They're looking at the funding and they're looking at the desperation on the part of the Democrats to get that funding. And they're saying, they're not saying, hey, this is a lost cause. The American people don't want this. It's a disaster. It's robbing, you know, inflation is robbing the Americans. No, they're saying, hmm, what can we get out of this? what can we rest what can we strangle out of the system for it and they've come across they've settled on this this border this border issue you know we want to complete revamping of the border you know i'm all favor of border security what have you however thrown in like this and sort of a like what are we going to get for a thing um it's uh i think it's cynical i think it's um stupid and i think it's typically Washington Republicans yeah well let's hope

that they fail to get their act together and are able to betray us in time, you know? Yes, exactly. I mean, time is not their friend on this. And, you know, the one, I mean, here's a sort of an outlier of an idea. I don't know what you think about Scott, but, you know, they're trying to ram the NDAA through the National Defense Authors Asian Act through. And, you know, one member who's a pretty mixed bag is Marjor Taylor Green. When she's on, she's quite good.

She's not going to be silence. She had a good little mini video yesterday if she talked about what's going on behind the scenes. You know, she was named to the conference committee. And, you know, how it works is the House passes a certain version.

The Senate vass is a certain version. And in good faith, each body of Congress appoints people to a conference committee to try to rectify the differences, you know? And you really should not expect any weird outliers to be thrown in the conference committee

because it's all essentially agreed. If one side says 100,000 besides says 50,000. Generally, they want to compromise the 75, you know, that sort of thing. So MTG came in and said, yeah, they put me on the committee, but they would let me see the bill, 3,000 page bill, nobody could read it. They didn't want my input. They didn't ask my input. They already had given away the shop. They'd already given away $300 million in funding for Ukraine, and they already gave up the extension of the FISA stuff, the 720 stuff. Behind the scenes, this was Speaker Johnson making a deal with Schumer is what she claims is happening.

So I don't know what this means, but if that 300A passes for Ukraine, this is a long shot, you know, but it could be a silver lining in that the Republicans, and they feel like they've been there and done that and they gave it the office, and they won't have to appropriate any more. But again, I'm pretty skeptical, but it's possible. Who knows? Yeah. And I wonder what Biden would really do in that situation. if there must be a pentagon slush fund or something they could resort to it'd be i don't know it's outside of the realm of my imagination daniel to have congress actually shut down a foreign policy in my lifetime it happened two years before i was born was the last time it happened i know

of yeah but it's not on principle i guess we'll take the the win when we can you know but um yeah i mean that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's a case we'll take the when we can. Well, and so now things are falling apart politically for Zelensky it seems like too. I saw was it the post piece that said yes sir it was

there's a two part you referred to this earlier. This piece in the post is says ah geez the search didn't work and it sounds like word for word paragraph for paragraph it's everything we were saying half a year ago or two thirds of a year ago why it's not going to work

and they're going oh yeah not to give credit where it's due or anything but in there they said that the chairman of the joint chiefs is a favorite to run for president against selensky because he's seen as more reasonable than zelensky and he's the same guy that was reported i'm sorry i'm not good with the names forgive me but um he's the same guy that seymour hers said is now talking to the russians going over zelensky's helmet so to speak and uh discussing sort of pre-negotiations, this kind of thing. Did you see that?

Yeah, Valeriozio, he's also the guy who has been named as a possible collaborator in the blowing up of the Nord Stream 1 and 2. At least that's what the, I think the German press said when they came out with it. Who knows what the case is. But, you know, there definitely is divisions within power circles in Ukraine. And you see this all the time when things start to break down and go badly. And it's not only Zilluzni pitted against Zelensky, but you have Klitsko coming in, which is the name we haven't heard in a long time, really. But if you remember from Victoria Newland's famous phone call, hey, we need clitch in here.

We need so-and-so in there. We need to do this and that, an FDU. I mean, he is the guy who was on her Rolodex in terms of what to do with the government after the U.S. overthrew it. He's come out and said that Zelensky is ruling like a dictator, which is what everyone else has been saying for a while. But he's ruling like a dictator, and he's going to have to pay for the mistakes he's made in this counteroffensive. So you've got at least a tripartite, you know, circular shooting contest going on right now. And I think things are falling apart. It's kind of interesting if the U.S. is putting its stock behind Zillusioni, though, because the guy is pretty – I mean, you think Zelensky's coped up.

This guy is a lot crazier. I mean, he's the one who said to Secretary Lloyd Austin. when they met just a few days ago, hey, I need 17 million shells. You know, I need 17 million shells. And, you know, the entire U.S. production of shells is about $300,000 a year. So the entire world production of shells

is nowhere near that. They don't, not that many shells don't exist in the world except maybe in Russia. So he's, but all along that, he wants some F-16s. And what's the other thing he wants? This, shoot, it's in the tip of my tongue. This American missile system

of which we only have. The attackums, right? No, not the attack them. It's another one. It's the, the fad system. And we only have four of those, and they're all in use. And he says, I need a couple fads. I need some, forget the F-16s. I need some F-18s. And he's a guy who said, like a few months ago. And I also need some space lasers. Some space lasers. Yeah. So, I don't know what's up with Zillusion. You ask Margaret Taylor Green about that one. Yeah. So I mean, we laugh about it, but clearly things are falling apart. They all thought they wouldn't get Gaddafi, but guess what? Sooner or later, everyone gets Gaddafied.

Yeah. You know, Connor O'Keefe, who's the great editor and poster of these interviews, by the way, writes for the Institute and writes also for Mises. And he has a piece at Mises that we're running us a spotlight on anti-war.com today where he talks about, well, what would happen if America stops supporting Ukraine and he goes well let's look at the history here and he brings up again this all-important story that's now quintupley confirmed or maybe even more about how they were really making progress in the talks at the beginning of the war where the russians were going to withdraw back out of the country you know i'm sure they're going to still recognize the supposed independence of donetsk and lojansk or some kind of deal but they were essentially going to end the war war and withdraw their troops from certainly what's happened since then, and Zelensky was prepared to sign it until the Americans and the Brits forced him to quit.

Yeah, typical. It's typical. I mean, it's come out. And that was admitted by one of the top advisors to Zelensky, David Aracamiya, admitted that, I think in the economist it was last week, that this is what's happened. You know, Boris Johnson, Boris Johnson, I don't know if you saw this, Scott, but he called for his government to come up with a plan for a military raid on the Netherlands to get some vaccines from them.

This guy is unmanned. He's as a fruit. I mean, our rulers are so insane and so stupid. I mean, if just looking at who is ruling over us doesn't make you a libertarian, I don't know what will. Yeah, but yeah, he's a guy that, you know, he's a guy that literally rolled in and said, no, you guys can't do this. Don't worry, we'll give you everything you want. Don't worry, you guys.

Fight on, boys, fight on, boys. You know, and then they went off to guzzle a few gallons of whiskey or something. It's just incredible. It is, you know, see, it seems sort of unreal. And then you're, well, look at Boris Johnson. Look at Kamala Harris. I saw the headline. I didn't believe, I mean, who knows what they really mean by these things, but that they even try.

this. It's like a TV show. Well, Kamala Harris is now in charge of Gaza policy. Oh, come on. You know, like some of us have work to do here. Stop wasting my time with this craziness, you know? And this kind of thing, like you say, Boris Freaking Johnson somehow became the Prime Minister of Britain. Already I'm accusing you of pulling my leg. And now he come in and completely blew up a peace negotiation. And as you say, this guy, David Arkhamia, he was the leader of the Ukrainian delegation now confirming this part of the story and so

and look and as Connor O'Keefe says in this piece Dan he says you could see what they were thinking that Ukraine's initial resistance to Russia was so successful compared to what they thought was going to happen that they said all right let's go for broke instead of

that's a relief that the entire military and state didn't get smashed to smithereens. And so at least we'll be able to salvage something. Let's compromise now and accept our two-thirds of a loaf. And instead, I don't know what Zelensky

was thinking, but the Americans and the Brits were thinking, no, now's the time to press our advantage, which they never had. Let's roll into Moscow. But that whole thing, Scott, is only because they believe their own bullcrap. because they incorrectly concluded that for Russia it was about taking territory. Even though Putin was very explicit, it's about demilitarization and denotification of Ukraine.

And so when they initially went into Kiev and took a couple airfields, but didn't continue on and capture the city, the geniuses in D.C. in the Beltway and their allies across Europe concluded. incorrectly that this was plucky little Ukraine standing up for itself when, in fact, people that we know who actually are experts like McGregor and Ritter and the others, Johnson, they knew all along. I mean, it was very obvious. They did not want to have to occupy Kiev at this point. There are goals which they were explicit about were demilitarization, denosification, and they continue grinding onward. But the U.S. can't, these people, can't let go of this idea that wars are only about territorial conquest, you know, that's the only thing they can think. So that's what this whole thing was built on a lie anyway.

Yeah. Well, and speaking of that, switched gears back to U.S. politics again. Vivik Ramoswamy took it to Nikki Haley in, I guess what's the final Republican debate of the season last night by challenging her to name any of the provinces in eastern Ukraine that she wants America to fight for and man that was great she just sat there I mean he is he is a mixed bag but when he's on he is he's on fire

and that's a real risk because she could have said what are you kidding me of course it's Donetsk and Lohanskin Suprosia and Kurson and whatever like that ain't that hard bro we got to save Harkev before it falls back under Russian Dominate like that's any idiot could tell you that if you

want to take that point of view so he was making a gamble but he gambled right she didn't have first clue. She never heard of Donetsk and Lojans. She don't know nothing about it, Dan. Nothing. Exactly. She's Gary Johnson up there. Exactly. Worst. Sorry, Gary. But look how Politico after the last Republican debate said, Nikki Haley is flexing her foreign policy chops in this one. You know, what chops? Give me a break. You know, it just shows that she's a front for the neocons. She's not even a neocon. Right. Because whatever you say about neocons are no dummies.

Yeah, at least they read books and stuff. Yeah, they know this stuff very, very well. And what was funny, Dan, was, wasn't it two debates ago or something, that he goes, geez, you probably work for Lockheed or Raytheon or something. And then right after the debate, everyone was like, no, dude, Boeing. She was on the board of Boeing. Oh, man. Living in the comic book of the fall of the American Empire.

She goes from being massively in debt to being a multimillionaire, you know. I mean, why doesn't anyone ever try to come? corrupt us, you know? Yeah, seriously, dude. Come on, Bowie. I see that. I see people post screenshots of like, hi, we're from some PR firm and we want to bribe you to say nice things about Israel and stuff like that. They never try that on me. Give me a shot, please. I mean, I'd probably take the money and break the contract, but, you know. All right. Well, man. Oh, well. Hang on just one second. Hey, y'all, the audiobook of my book,

enough already. Time to End the War on Terrorism is final. done. Yes, of course, read by me. It's available at Audible, Amazon, Apple Books, and soon on Google Play and whatever other options there are out there. It's my history of America's War on Terrorism from 1979 through today. Give it a listen and see if you agree. It's time to just come home. Enough already. Time to end the war on terrorism. The audiobook. Hey guys, I've had a lot great webmasters over the years, but the team at Expanddesigns.com have by far been the most competent and reliable. Harley Abbott and his team have made great sites for the show and the institute, and they keep them running well, suggesting and making improvements all along.

Make a deal with Expandesigns.com for your new business or news site. They will take care of you. Use the promo code Scott and save $500. That's expanddesigns.com. man i wish i was in school so i could drop out and sign up for tom woods's liberty classroom instead thomas done such a great job on putting together a classical curriculum for everyone from junior high schoolers on up through the postgraduate level and it's all very reasonably priced just make sure you click through from the link in the right margin at scott horton dot org tom woods this liberty classroom real history real economics real education um so but then so vivick ramaswam He goes on Fox News this morning.

Did you see that clip, Dan? I didn't see that one yet. Man, so Brian Kilmead just went after him. And you know, he has his few talking points. You know, Hitler in Czechoslovakia and this is, you know, whatever. And Ramoswamy is, he's being kind of hawkish. He's saying, listen, man, the most important, dangerous thing in the world is a Russian-Chinese alliance. And they have their differences.

And it's crazy for us to push the two together the way that we're doing. We need to find a way to, he didn't say accommodate, but, you know, we got to figure out how we can coexist with Russia because China is the bigger threat, and which I don't even agree with at all, but at least it's a reason to not pick a fight with Russia anyway, I don't know, and they're just not having it. Nope, they're already 100%, million percent allies, and there's nothing we can do about that except take them both on, Dan. That's it. Fox and friends, they figure this out. Let's, yeah, let's have Jesse Waters suit up or any of these guys, right? Tough guys. And it was a real fight, too. Like, you can tell he got instructions that, like, let him have it. Don't let, you know, he didn't treat him with any respect at all. It was pure attack dog, you know, going after him the whole time.

It was pretty something, you know, like Bill O'Reilly came back and is taking on, you know, some 9-11 victim's child or something, you know? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Wow. Yeah, the word must have gone out because he said things you're not supposed to say. during the debates absolutely well look i mean so this gets to the whole crack up and obviously dan i think you know it's most prominent inside the democratic party where you have all the old people and all the money and all the organization on the side of israel and you have all the kids out in the street against it and i think that's pretty much the same division on ukraine only

much darker um and then you do have this crack up in the republican party i know that you guys this was the headline of you and Ron show the other day was 50 percent and this is consistent over the last few polls there was one pretty optimistic poll said 56 but still i'll take 50 and i've been saying if 50 percent of republicans want to cease fire in israel's war against who they called terrorists in gaza which hey hamas a bunch of civilian killers you can't call terrorists fine by me and then but half of republicans say they want to cease fire in the of that, to me, I'll grade that on a curve and call that 75%. You know what I mean? That's huge to me that the American right is so broken away from and divorced away from the thinking of the George

Bush years, that they're not, you know, Ukraine is one thing, but Israel, Palestine, even, 50-50 there seems pretty huge, Dan. It's shocking, and they don't want you to know this sort of thing. And this is despite all of the propaganda 24-7. I mean, the whole idea of right-wing propaganda on Israel is to convince American conservatives, right-wingers, that any opposition to the slaughter in Gaza puts you in the camp of Ilan Omar in the American hating squad, you know, and nobody wants to be in that. There's no such thing as conservatives who are opposing our support for the slaughter that's happening there. But I was as surprised as you are, Scott, that despite that, and I think you're right you know if you look at some of the cross tabs it's the younger generation um it's it's not

buying into it and i was i think i said it on the show with dr paul once recently it reminds me of this of the cuba policy in florida you know like when dr paul went there when he was campaigning he was pretty worried because we're against all the embargoes and stuff and when he went out there there there there's a lot of young cuban americans who are like and the embargo this is ridiculous let's make friends with cuba so i think younger generation don't have all that intellectual baggage that the boomers have. And I think Ramoswamy represents that younger generation. Yeah. Well, it's really, it's the access to the media, too. I realize this over at my parents' house on Thanksgiving. My dad flipped on News Hour, PBS NewsHour. And this is a

real thing. Don't get me wrong. I'm only talking about the context and the contrast. Okay. It was an extended interview with a family member of an Israeli who had been kidnapped and was being held by Hamas in Gaza. And which, you know, again, for people who don't know this, I guess it is relevant to this discussion. Literally an extended family member of mine was kidnapped and murdered by Hamas in this thing. So I have my sympathies for that situation, obviously. And yet, the point I'm making is they're going on and on for a good 10 minute or 15 whatever 12 minute segment or something on the news hour about this one case of this one Israeli victim and I'm looking at my phone and they're bombing gaza to smithereens and they're pulling

little toddlers out of the rubble and I got some guy's legs sticking up out of the dirt they're trying to dig for him to uncover them there's no way in the world they're going to get to him in time this guy's buried alive and and I'm looking at hell on earth on my phone in that the Palestinians are living through and I'm watching Woe is me from the obviously dominant power by a thousand percent on the TV screen and I think that's just

what makes the difference you know what I mean? And because I'm exposed to both but my folks, they're never exposed to what I'm seeing on my phone, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly, exactly. They're not going to go on Twitter. Yeah, very unlikely, yeah. And NewsHour isn't going to show them. No, no. I mean, surprisingly, like, places like CNN are doing slightly better, believe they're not, on some of this stuff. You know, Christian Amampur had a good interview recently

about it. But yeah, I mean, it's a generational thing. There's absolutely no question about it. But, you know, I mean, it's like, okay, the 3,000 people in the Twin Towers that were killed, that's awful, and we feel absolute sympathy for them. But then we went out and killed a million Iraqis over it. Okay. What's that all about? It's the same kind of thing. It's his proportionality. It's so obviously skewed and so horrific that, you know, for all of his faults, I have to say thank God for Elon Musk, because if there was no debate on Twitter now, I think a lot of us wouldn't be seeing a lot of this stuff that we see. Yeah. Have you been reading this guy, John Robb? You know who I'm talking about, Dan? I'm afraid I don't. Global guerrillas. So you

really like him. He's got a substack Global Gorillas, and I interviewed him last week, and he's he wrote this thing. I never can remember the name of the book, but he wrote a book about the Sunni insurgency in Iraq War II, and the way it was this decentralized leadership

and that kind of thing. And he took that same kind of network analysis to the Twitter swarms, and you'll be very familiar with the Twitter swarms that were the Russiagate Twitter swarms, the COVID Twitter swarms, and the, you know, the pro-Ukraine war Twitter swarm, which according to John Robb, really hemmed in Biden's choices.

Like essentially the center-left Hillary Clinton voter women of Twitter in that time, at the end of 21 and into beginning of 22 there, was so powerful that they really were upstream from and leading the war party out ahead of the White House and the worst of the National Security Council on the thing and making it worse. But anyway, he was talking about how they happen to be on the side of the underdog in this one anyway on on Israel and Palestine and how as he puts it, the Israelis online front collapses, right? Like he's putting it in terms of it's all part of fifth generation cyber war, this, that, whatever, and how the Israeli propaganda is just falling so flat. because all they can do is just scream anti-Semite at people who clearly are not anti-Semites and refer back to the atrocity of the seventh without any kind of update that would somehow rationalize what's happening now and so it's it's the least effective has Bara ever essentially and it's in fact even backfiring on them as they accuse innocent people of being Jew haters simply for caring about what's happening to the Palestinians you know

Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of how Ukraine exposed the paper tiger that is the American military machine, the greatest military on earth. And all of our wounder weapons, you know, collapsed on the battlefield. You know, you have this instructions, well, you got to clean out the engine of this, of these tanks like every couple of hours because, you know, they need to be clean. Oh, let's do that during a battle. I mean, this, this, this, the October 7th revealed the paper tiger that is that is the, that is the, that is the, is. Israeli security state. First of all, like, how is it possible that these Palestinians and lawn chairs are taking over military barracks and military bases?

That seems pretty weird. How is it possible that nobody seemed to know a damn thing about it or were able to do anything about it for hours? How is it possible as much vaunted? And I believe that myself, Hasbara, you're talking about, I mean, the propaganda, like you say has collapsed. It's like a, it's like putting in an old eight track, right? And everyone else is streaming digital music. It's amazing how dated it looks. Yeah. And after all, I mean, securities a government program. Ultimately, their incentive is to fail, even if it's not

deliberate. I mean, kind of will do better next time if they don't do good this time. And just like any other government program is just kind of built that way. So you could see where, you know, there was this story in the New York Times from Ronan Bergman saying they had on paper the entire Hamas War plan. They had intercepted it. Of course they completely pon the Gaza Strip, right?

Of course they had it. They didn't know when exactly. And it said in there that this had been all around the highest levels of the national security state over there. They said it wasn't clear whether Netanyahu himself had seen it or not. But it's, you know, this

is just the minimalist explanation until we got more information. But it's easy to see how the word had probably more or less going around that BB doesn't want to hear any more about Hamas right now. So if you have a bunch of, oh, no, Hamas information, then you can go put it in the memory hole pile to be burned because we're not trying to hear that. We have a different narrative right now,

which is that everything that Yahoo has decided to do is working perfectly. And we don't want to get that messed up. So you did have all these alerts and reports coming from right outside the gate from lower level military people saying, hey, we're seeing a lot of training and movement and things to be concerned about. But the reports are just getting quashed all the way up. Instead of everyone doing their best, they're doing their best to avert their eyes because, not because they want a catastrophe to happen, but because they don't want to have to embarrass and contradict the boss who said that everything's fine. Exactly. I mean, isn't that so much like 9-11, too? You know, I mean, there were the warning lights were going off everywhere, and they just didn't want to hear it. And like you, I mean, I don't buy the theory that they knew everything was going to happen and said, okay, this is going to be great. I just don't think they would go that far. Just like with the 9-11, I don't think they knew exactly what's going to happen and said, let's do it anyway. But I do think that, you know, like all government's arrogance takes a big part. And we were just talking about with Ukraine, how the U.S. experts believe. leave their own lies. They believe their own circular thinking about it. I'm sure that's the case was the case in Israel as well. They just, they believe the rhetoric. As you say, don't piss

off the boss, you know, a president Bush does not want to hear about this. We want to stope the intelligence to point to Iraq and nothing else is heard. So it's not so far-fetched. It's not conspiratorial. Yeah. Well, and look, geez, I forgot who it was. was maybe Chalmers Johnson that said, look, power doesn't just corrupt. It makes people stupid. I'm sorry if I'm getting that attribution wrong. And I, oh, that's just someone else. But you can really see that with the whole information bubble. There's that book that I actually never read, but I at one time owned and almost read. That was called The Perils of Group Think, which I'm pretty sure one of the examples in there is the Bay of Pigs disaster, where all these

brilliant geniuses sat around a table and agreed to go ahead on this plan that had been changed 15 times and made no sense and was never going to work and you know it was a complete disaster but they all agreed and you'd have been the little kids saying the emperor wears no clothes to disagree and so is all the wrong incentives when the only incentive that should have mattered was is this a good plan is this going to work do we have the right to do this these kinds of questions is this smart and right for us to do instead it was what makes sense for me to do and say in my body language as I sit at this table here with these other guys who think the things they think and just you know what i mean what of course that's how

they run the empire like a bunch of nitwits yeah and that's what makes us on interventionist because we realize there's simply no right way to do any of these things the only conclusion is to not try doing them yeah because there's just no way to know and seriously you would think that they would get one right after a while or something no oh man um well listen man i'm sorry i'm out of time to keep talk it to you dan i have more questions here and discussion things but um one thing that's important is the ron paul institute so i wanted to give you a moment to talk about it well thanks very much scott you know we we do have the daily ron paul liberty report at noon on rumble we love people to come watch it we love people come out to our conference we had scott horton the great scott horton

speaking at our conference last time in houston we love to have them come out again and get involved again we all got to stick together rompaw institute dot org we've got to understand new website thanks to our good pal harley who put it together for us and um it's a work in progress but it's a big improvement so um we just love having everyone's participation and support right on okay and that's ron paul institute dot org and also liberty report dot com right that's right yes all right okay the great dam macadams thank you very much for your time d'am appreciate thanks scott the scott horton show anti-war radio can be heard on kpfk 90. F.m. in L.A.

APSradio.com, anti-war.com, Scott Horton.org, and Libertarian Institute.org.