Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 1/7/26 Ramzy Baroud: The Genocide in Gaza Has Not Ended

Episode Date: January 10, 2026

Scott interview journalist Ramzy Baroud about what’s happening in Gaza, how the so-called “ceasefire” has impacted how many Palestinians Israel kills every day, the broader moves towards ethnic cleansing and more.   Discussed on the show: “The Gaza War is Lost: But Will Netanyahu Concede?” (Antiwar.com) Ramzy Baroud is a US-Arab journalist and is the editor-in-chief of the Palestine Chronicle. He is the author of My Father Was A Freedom Fighter: The Untold Story of Gaza and The Last Earth: A Palestinian Story, These Chains Will Be Broken: Palestinian Stories of Struggle and Defiance in Israeli Prisons, and more. His new book is Our Vision For Liberation. Follow Ramzy on Twitter @RamzyBaroud and read his work at RamzyBaroud.net. Audio cleaned up with the Podsworth app: https://podsworth.com Use code HORTON50 for 50% off your first order at Podsworth.com to clean up your voice recordings, sound like a pro, and also support the Scott Horton Show! For more on Scott's work: Check out The Libertarian Institute: https://www.libertarianinstitute.org Check out Scott's other show, Provoked, with Darryl Cooper https://youtube.com/@Provoked_Show Read Scott's books: Provoked: How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine https://amzn.to/47jMtg7 (The audiobook of Provoked is being published in sections at https://scotthortonshow.com) Enough Already: Time to End the War on Terrorism: https://amzn.to/3tgMCdw Fool’s Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan https://amzn.to/3HRufs0 Follow Scott on X @scotthortonshow And check out Scott’s full interview archives: https://scotthorton.org/all-interviews This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Roberts Brokerage Incorporated https://rrbi.co Moon Does Artisan Coffee https://scotthorton.org/coffee; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom https://www.libertyclassroom.com/dap/a/?a=1616 and Dissident Media https://dissidentmedia.com You can also support Scott’s work by making a one-time or recurring donation at https://scotthorton.org/donate/https://scotthortonshow.com or https://patreon.com/scotthortonshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen of the press have been less than honest. Reporting to the American people, what's going on in this country. Because the babies are making this. We're dealing with Hitler Revisited. This is the Scott Horton Show, Libertarian Foreign Policy, mostly. When the president visit, that means that it is not a legal. We're going to take out seven countries in five years. They don't know what the fuck they're doing.

Negotiate now. End this war. And now, here's your host. Scott Horton. Okay, you guys, introducing Ramsey Baroud. Of course, he's a regular at anti-war.com. He runs the Palestine Chronicle, and he's an academic fellow at the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom.

And here are, boy, they pulled up all the wrong books for me here when I clicked on your name. What happened? Here's one of them anyway. I don't know why I did that to me. Ramsey Baru before the flood is coming very soon, February the 3rd, with Elon Pepe. And he's also written a bunch of previous books, including these chains will be broken, The Last Earth, a Palestinian story, searching Janine.

My father was a freedom fighter, Gaza's untold story, and on like that. And again, he is a real great highlight. And a boasting point for me for his participation in the Scott Horton Academy for his course is titled the reality of the Israel-Palestine conflict. So welcome back to the show. How are you doing, Ramsey? I'm doing good. How are you, Scott? I'm doing great.

Really appreciate you joining us on the show today. So there's so much going on in the world. Eyes off Gaza. Well, not good enough. So let's put our eyes back on it. Obviously, we cover the headlines, you know, kind of day in and day out. Thai War.com, people are still being killed. I believe over 400 Palestinians have been killed since the so-called ceasefire began in October. There's all kinds of, you know, developing

stories about where the yellow line is drawn and is being moved to and plans to divide the strip in half. There's the ongoing crisis of winter weather and these tent colonies and all, you know, I saw one where a building collapsed and killed a five-year-old girl. I mean, it's just hell on earth over there, I know. But would you please just start with getting us up to date on the situation for the Palestinian people of the Gaza Strip as it stands right now? Absolutely. I mean, it's something that we have seen before. During the genocide in particular, we have seen how the weather impacts people who are having to deal with the genocide,

but also having to deal with the constant state of displacement. Many of these families, rather hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza, have been moved from one place to the other throughout the last two years plus now, going from the north to the south to the center. Some of the people that I speak with, including family members, by the way, many of them have had like 15, 16 different homes for the lack of a better war. There are no homes. they are just, they are lucky if they get a tent.

And even the prices of tents, because they're not available, have went out, you know, a wind up a great deal in the last two years to the point that a tent would cost up to $12,500 and $1,500. The kind of money that ordinary people do not have, the market does not have the capacity for this kind of supplies. And as a result, many of them just live. in, you know, in, you know, cardboard boxes, within destroyed buildings. I mean, this is the issue, you know, I've been asked before,

why are people, you know, just taking the risk in the first place? Well, what do you do? One of my cousins told me that she is one of, she's very lucky, and she is grateful to God a thousand times that she's able to live in a house. When I saw the house, I couldn't believe my eyes when she sent me the video. Basically, half of the building is gone. It's just like sliced from the middle. So they used blankets and various so plastic sheets to cover the other half

and they are living in the other half. And she is feeling that she is one of the very lucky ones. So you can imagine the plight of hundreds of thousands who don't have access to even to destroy buildings. So the situation is very dire. And of course, Israel is manipulating this situation. This is what Israel does. Israel throughout history,

is very good at creating signing agreements that it does not respect, assigning certain lines, starting with the first Armistice line in 1948 until today, or rather 1949, until today, lines that they don't respect. I mean, look what they did in Lebanon. They signed the ceasefire agreement, and they have violated it not hundreds, but thousands of times, according to the UN and independent sources.

So you can imagine what they have done in Gaza. I mean, it's a constant. I mean, I don't even know what is the term. When you violate an agreement every single day, so many times, is it really still an agreement? I mean, is this considered a violation? In my opinion, there's no agreement to begin with. It seems that only the Palestinians, the same case in Lebanon, only the Lebanese, only the Syrians are obligated to respect whatever agreement, while on the other hand, Israel is completely free.

to do as it pleases as if it didn't sign anything in the first place. And this is exactly what's underweighing Gaza at the moment. Okay, so before we talk about the diplomacy and all the alleged plans and ceasefire agreements and all that, can you talk about how the so-called agreement is being implemented on the ground as far as the territory that Israel is taking, the yellow line and the plan to divide the, the territory at least in half. And I guess the Israelis are claiming, they're going to occupy the entire northern half of the strip

from now on. Is that it? Right. So this is very, very important. And we have to be really honest of why Israel agreed to the October ceasefire in the first place. Israel agreed to it. And there's really no other interpretation of this,

no matter how some analysts try to spin it. It agreed to it because it could not defeat the palace. on the ground. Israel's ultimate aim was to defeat the Palestinians on the ground and to push them out into Sinai. It's not a conspiracy. It is something that is like mainstream news in Israel. The question is what country was willing to accept them and what other was not? They spoke about Sierra Leone, about Somaliland, about Ghana, about South Sudan. They've been talking about it openly and freely and as if it is totally. totally fine to ethnically cleansed 2.3 million people or whatever number of people that survived, the genocide,

and just push themselves somewhere else. No international law, no humanitarian law. But Israel couldn't do this. It could not achieve its objectives. Two years and it was still going. They invaded Chaniyounis repeatedly every single time. They could not sustain their occupation so they had to leave. They did the same thing in Bait Hanun, in Bait La Jaya, in the north.

In Gaza City, they said they needed 200,000 soldiers to take over Gaza City, and they could not provide that number. They could not take over Gaza City. They put a siege on Gaza City, hoping that it would break. It didn't. So the ceasefire agreement was an acknowledgement that military force alone is not able to kind of break the will of the Palestinians. And so they resorted to something else. Let me just interject here, by the way, can I just say real quick that your second or third article after October 7th was Israel has already lost?

And the article was about how they tried this in 2014 and they couldn't get past guys sniping them from the rubble. They just cannot win this fight. And so we know that the function of how many innocent Palestinians are going to be killed in the meantime is just a function of how long this goes on before they quit. obviously the Palestinians can't drive them out, but all the insurgency has to do is not lose, and Hamas will not lose. And so now here we are having this conversation at the beginning of 26,

where even Netanyahu at least implicitly acknowledges that you were right all along about that. Exactly. And this is, you know, I must admit that at times, I thought, am I going too far in my expectations regarding the Palestinians? I'm not talking even about Hamas or the Islam, Islamic jihad or the various socialist and communist fighting groups in Gaza.

I am talking about the people themselves. Based on all the research that I have done throughout the years, Gaza has always been different, as if there has been a collective decision among Gazans that we would rather perish than surrender. I don't know how, I don't know why, but the fact is, historically, this has always been the case. Gaza could not be subdued.

And we've tried it. This is not a Netanyahu phenomenon. Ariel Sharon has tried it. Rabin has tried it with the broken bones policies and all of that. Previous generals and prime ministers have tried it. Gaza cannot be subdued. And as a result, I reached that conclusion that indeed, no matter what you are just killing children,

you are just killing women, you are killing innocent people. There are some buildings that have been bombed dozens of times. The rubble is just the building, the concrete, pulverized over and over and over again. And we were trying to give different results and they couldn't. Now it is a state of siege. Let's see if we get the Palestinians the choice between, you know, kind of living on the brink between life and death, or maybe we can give them an opportunity somewhere else.

And they have been. I'm sure that anti-war has been reporting on this, you know, the mysterious airplanes that landed in South Africa, loaded with Palestinians. How did they get there coming from Gaza? Then they discover that this comes through NGOs, registered in Europe, Israeli funded with the hope of finding kind of a soft method of ethnically cleansing the Palestinians. But it doesn't seem like anything is working. Now, the problem is here we are stuck. The Palestinians cannot, will not surrender under any circumstance. They have nothing to lose.

But Israel, on the other hand, does not feel like it has enough pressure to let go of this project. So we are now living in this strange zone where Palestinians are just dying slowly. And as you said from the very beginning, the world is looking somewhere else. Yeah. You know, they always said, Scott, you keep during. that much coffee, you're going to turn into a cup of coffee and then it finally happened. I am coffee now. And if you go to scothorton.org slash coffee, you two can get Scott Horton's show flavored

coffee branded coffee there. It's Ethiopian mixed with Sumatran blended coffee. It's so good. And I have some of it right here. In fact, I'm drinking in my Libertarian Institute mug. You can see. Oh. This is how I wake up in the morning

and this is how I stay awake in the afternoon. And if I was a drunk, it would be how I get home from the bar at night. So sound advice to you guys there, you know, take an Uber. Moondos, artisan coffee. Get it, they hate Starbucks because Starbucks, well, first of all, doesn't taste that great. And then also, they support the war party. But Moondos, artisan coffees, does not.

They support peace. So check us out at scothorton.org slash coffee. Okay, so, well, there's so many different topics. Let me go back to what you're saying about sort of the soft cleansing, the kind of leaking appeal because there are people who are severely, you know, injured and malnourished and unhealthy in a variety of ways who are being, you know, taken to, I guess, cutter or UAE or whatever for medical treatment. there. So like part of the time the complaint is that Israel won't let Palestinians leave. They're

captives there. Well, on the other hand, what they really want is to kick them all out. But then you do have sort of this, this, you know, kind of ongoing problem of people who get out in order to get medical care or help in whatever way. Then they can't get back in. They don't really have much of a place to get back into. And so, however, I guess, as you're saying, though, the ultimately, the problem remains. There's still something like 2 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. They haven't been able to get Ethiopia or Indonesia.

They were talking about Indonesia. They haven't been able to get any of these other countries to agree to take the Palestinians and help them with their cleansing project there. The Egyptians won't. I guess they could push them all into, well, they can't, right? They wanted to push them all on the Senate, but they need the U.S. Marines to do that.

God, by my tongue, man, I hope nobody in the Trump administration heard me say that. But then, okay, I read the Wall Street Journal, and it's, I don't know, God help you, if you ever had to watch the remakes of Star Trek, they're just so terrible. But there's one with the guy, Cumberbatch or whatever is the, the Rath of Khan. It's just so bad. Anyway, they had this, like, this floating city space station out there in outer space somewhere.

And it was like this super high-tech fancy Jetsons, like. space city. And that's what the drawings look like in the Wall Street Journal of here's what Jared Kushner wants to do to the Gaza Strip. He's going to invest something like $999 trillion in completely remaking the entire Gaza Strip into the cleanest future scape of, you know, chrome-plated science fiction from the 1950s kind of imagination type thing. And then But yeah, that won't be for the Palestinians. That couldn't possibly be his plan to do that for the Palestinians. Although depending on which episode of the Wall Street Journal you read,

sometimes they pretend that, oh, yeah, he wants to do this for the Palestinians. But clearly the plan is there to still kick them out and turn this into prime real estate for Israeli Jews to live in. But so, I guess the point here, the strategy here is just to continue to try to basically starve them and make them miserable enough to leave, even though they just turned the tempo down on the fighting. And then, or I don't know if you want to get into some of the details of the plan and what's workable and what's not.

I mean, I think everyone must have understood going in. Hamas is not going to lay down their arms or turn them over to some road. Because that is collective suicide for the Palestinians. I mean, nobody came to the rescue. You know, I grew up in the refugee camps of Gaza. And I tell you, like, my gosh, the kind of conversations that I grew up with, you know, people waiting for some liberator to come from outside. By that time, I did not even know about Che Guevara's famous statement.

There are no liberators that people liberate themselves. But back then, my dad used to say, oh, the Egyptians will not leave us alone. Then my uncle would say, no, no, it's the Algerians who will come via the sea. There's always this idea. And by the way, this goes back to 1948, when nearly a million Palestinian was ethnically cleansed during the Nekba, the great catastrophe that established Israel on the ruins of Palestine.

And that generation believed that there is an international system that will not allow Palestinians to be ethnic clans. And when they were, they were so convinced that the international system is going to take them back.

It just doesn't make sense for people to be pushed out the way they were. So my grandfather used to have this radio transistor. I remember it was orange and the batteries were bulging from the back and had all this weird duct tape on it. And he'll just be waiting, thinking that the news is going to declare

Palestinian refugees go back. His politics were very simple. But the idea is Palestinians were being told someone is going to come from the outside and help them go back and free them. That never happened. Now that they are the only line of defense, the first and last line of defense,

under what circumstance where Palestinians lay down their arms? because doing so, it's the end of all things. It's just not going to happen. So this is they are willing to fight to the death, and in fact, they proved that they are willing to fight to the death. But nothing has happened, no cracks in the international system. I know we have been talking for over two years about the tide is turning,

the current is hitting the wrong way or the other. But nothing fundamental has yet happened, leaving the entire scenario in the hands, of madmen. Jared Kushner and Israel cats and weird meetings about floating cities in the Mediterranean and artificial islands and some really weird shit, sorry for the language. And, you know, so nobody is coming offering anything else. Nobody is saying, no, this is ridiculous. It needs to stop. There's an alternative international legal system that is going to provide Palestinians with a minimal degree of something.

support or protection. None of this. This is why the likes of Jared Kushner is a daily character on Middle Eastern news. Very frustrating because you know none of his nonsense is going to happen. You know that. But he's going to experiment at the expense of innocent people who need help, aid, love, support, protection. No, they are just waiting until Mr. Kushner and Whitkoff and so many others conjure up yet new ideas.

Let's experiment and see what happens. We have nothing to lose. So it's that Palestinians are now the subject of a political experimentation, a grand political experimentation by crazy people in Washington who have no reason to stop because nobody is telling them otherwise. Yeah. Hey, guys, you know I have another podcast now, right? Yeah, me and the great American historian Daryl Cooper,

that is Martyr Made. He's my co-host and we host a show every Friday night. we might be switching to two days a week here sometime soon, but right now we're doing Friday nights live at 8 o'clock Eastern time on the YouTube's. Checked out our Twitter handle Provoked Show. Now, so Hamas, obviously they were under severe pressure, you know, just in pure violence and in the desperation of the Palestinian people to find a way to get a ceasefire here.

Now, it was, you know, one year ago they were killing. about a Waco mask or worth of people a day. You actually, usually above that. Waco was about, you know, 86 people. So it was something like between high 80s and like 120 or whatever. Every day, like somebody must have told the Israelis that you can kill about 100 a day, okay, keep it like on that tempo or something. So by giving into this deal, Hamas lowered that tempo down to a few a day compared to 100 or so a day,

which, you know, hey, that's a pretty. big improvement and some people got to go quote unquote home back to their old neighborhoods to squat in the rubble and whatever. But, you know, what they said at the time was that they were essentially just taking the word of Donald Trump that, you know, they know they can't really deal with the Israelis and all, but the president of the United States really was sticking his neck out and was saying, I am guaranteeing peace here. Based on my word, I'm saying you can accept this deal. And so that was basically all they had to go on there.

There's, as you said, no one's coming from the outside to take their side. So the president of the United States insisting on a ceasefire on the Israeli side, if Hamas will give in to X, Y, Z, basically let them no choice, I guess, but to give in at that point. In fact, that's the same deal that, more or less, at least, that they had been willing to give into for a very long time, even going back to when it was still President Biden. But so, but they have no real. real guarantee of anything, other than the shame of Trump somehow failing if the thing goes back

to, you know, a higher tempo of violence again, which is not much in terms of a political price for Trump to pay. You know what I mean? It's letting the Palestinians down is not politically the same as letting the Israelis down, right? So, yeah, I don't know. I guess I'm curious, I guess, what you think about just the kind of short and medium term future year of, you know, the rock and a hard place that really everybody is stuck in here. Trump can't get Netanyahu to really, you know, live up to what he really wants, which is probably not too much better than what Netanyahu wants anyway. But he has a hard enough time just getting him to let food aid in and stuff like that.

So, and of course, as you said, the Israelis already lost. They can't get rid of the Palestinians, but then the Palestinians, nobody's coming for them and they don't have the ability to change the behavior of the Americans of the Israelis other than making them more violent by launching some rockets or whatever it is if they got some. So, I don't know. Anyway, what do you think? How do you imagine where we are here? I think what you said about this being a numbers game, I think is absolutely right. In the beginning of the war, the number was, of course, much higher. It could go up to at one point in one single bomb. I think in Jabali, it was 850 people gone in a single American supplied bomb.

So the number was much higher. Then it seems that indeed they kind of settled. I mean, I've been reporting on this every single day. And yeah, it's like, how did they calculate that the number has to go between, you know, 80, 85 to 120, 130 max? Like how, you know, who is, you know, keeping track of this number? to the point that if it's a day in which 57 were killed, it's like, well, that's a good day for the Palestinians. And then maybe just before midnight,

you have a bomb that will take, you know, the last of another 40 or 50, just to make sure that the number stays the same, as if the Israelis have reached some sort of a conclusion that maybe we can kind of balance the global rage regarding what's happening in Gaza, and maybe we can prolong this as long as possible. But for the Palestinians, it's just too much.

And I know, I know that there's been a lot of discussions that Palestinians are under a lot of pressure from the Qataris and from the Egyptians. And yeah, they have, they have. But the truth is, Palestinians have been under a lot of pressure from the Arabs for decades. Their political decisions were not based or shaped by that pressure, especially these countries have very little leverage.

I mean, Qatar is the only country that actually had leverage. over the Palestinians because they were hosting some of the leadership of the various Palestinian resistance groups. But Israel ended up bombing and killing, you know, various, you know, the resistance movements or members in Qatar itself. So here you go. Here's the leverage that Qatar has.

It was lost and nothing has happened and they were bombed in a sovereign country, a very close ally within United States, about two, three kilometers from the US. as military base because I lived in Qatar. I was working for a news network there for years, and I know the proximity is a very tiny little country. So the Americans were just watching

as their ally is being bombed by the Israelis and they didn't do anything about it. So here you go with the leverage that the Qataris have over the Palestinians. The real leverage that Israel had, despite of the strong talk of the fiery speeches of the Palestinians and all of that, is that these are children.

These are innocent people who are mutual. every few minutes, every couple of hours, everywhere in Gaza. It's just too much, and any human being would break under these circumstances. They did it. But in their mind, they found some kind of a balance, as you said, to lower the number, to take the tempo down a little bit. It's like, well, I mean, we lived with this number of dead Palestinians every day before the genocide.

You know, maybe we can sustain this a little bit longer. But in my mind, this is the calculation of the Palestinians. This is a very strange era in the history of the struggle. Historically, individuals do not matter, whether it's Hakrabin or Ariel Sharon or Paris or, say, believe me, or Natamia. At the end of the day, Israel is, you know, Israeli policies are controlled by numerous variable in which the individual himself does not matter so much. that individual never mattered as much as today. Netanyahu does matter, the presence of Netanyahu. If it's someone else, maybe he would have played his cards differently.

Maybe he would have tried to appease the Americans to get something else in return. Netanyahu seems to have total control. And really, I mean, I know people are going to say conspiracy theory, but really total control or had tabbed into the American. foreign policy code in such a way that whatever Netanyahu wants, Netanyahu gets. And the Palestinians know that. So they know that there's an element of time here. They need to be strong enough, patient enough, resilient enough, that they survive these couple of years under Trump and Netanyahu, this deadly combination in the Middle East and beyond

the Middle East at this point, in South America and beyond. So this is it. For Palestinians, is a waiting game, hoping that the new variables could emerge in the future and save them, not liberate them, not free them, but save them from this particular death trap under which they live right now. Man, if you have any money, you should be buying gold with it. Central banks are hoarding it up. And if you need some, you should go to rrbi.c.c.o. That's Roberts and Roberts Brokerage, Inc.

It's my buddy, Tim Fri. He's a really great guy. him in this business, they've been over there for a very, very long time, and they will help you get your medals, and they will always do you right. That's Roberts and Roberts Brokerage Inc. at R-RBI.co. Can you tell me about this guy? I'm not probably knowing saying his name, right?

Marwan Bargudi. Is that the guy people say he's sort of the Palestinian Mandela, and that's why he's in prison? So the age-old, you know, sloganeers, about we have no partner for peace. Yeah, because he already assassinated them all or at least keep them locked in a cage. And I even read that they went ahead

and beat the crap out of him in his cell a few weeks ago to punish him for whatever was going on. So can you talk a little bit about that guy or what you think about him? Well, there are two Marwan Barwitis. Okay. Same individuals.

He didn't make a mistake. It's the same individual, but there are two representation of Marwan Barwitis. Oh, I got you. You see? Sorry for misleading you there for a second. Oh, that's okay. I'm with you.

So I was like, man, I didn't even know that, really. Okay. The Barwuti family is a huge family, and indeed there are so many individuals within the various layers of leadership, indeed. But there are two different representation. There is the representation that matters to the Americans, to the West. I mean, I have in various seminars, conferences, I've been asked the question,

do you think Marwan Barguti is the strong man of Palestine? And I've been asked that about Muhammad Dachlan and other characters. And this idea of the strong man as a representation is the man who can control the Palestinians and the Americans can do business with. This is the kind of discourse, this is the language they use. That Marwan Barguti doesn't matter to Palestinians so much, honestly. The Barwan Barghouti that matters is the Marwan Barwuti, who is a mobilizer, an organizer, an intellectual,

and the founder of the Shabiba movement, that's the youth movement that made all the difference that launched the first Intifada, the second Intifada, and he's a unifying character. He is the only character who is liked by all ideological groups. The Islamist like him, his main group, the original Fatah group, not Mahmoud Abbas is Fatah. Because Fatah itself, it's segmented between these various branches of power. The popular branch, that is the one that is lit by Marwan Barguti, and that's why he's in prison. So all Palestinians want him out, and they feel that this is a compromise that's going to make everybody happy. If Marwan Barghouti is out, indeed, and he's not killed.

immediately by Israel, indeed there could be finally kind of the signs of political unification of all Palestinian groups. That Marwan Barghouti matters so much to the Palestinians, and that's the Marwan Barghouti that Israel is very afraid of. But not only Israel is afraid of Marwan Barghouti, the Palestinian Authority itself is very afraid of Marwan. Barghouti to the point that various leaks in Israeli media have been reporting that Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian Authority, have called on Israel not to release him, along with the other thousands of prisoners

who were released as part of the ceasefire prisoners' exchange, because they fear that his freedom could end up jeopardizing the entire political system upon which the Palestinian Authority is structured in the West. Yeah, meaning as the effective sock puppets of the United States and the Israelis. That's right. Zach. This is what we call in libertarianism, public choice theory, right?

Where the guys in charge, they make their decisions based on what's good for them because they don't become angels when they enter public service. They do what's good for themselves at the expense of their own people, just like here, just like everywhere, just like in Israel. Okay, so before we wrap here, can you give us just, you know, some kind of brief word on the status of the situation on the West Bank, because I think, as we've discussed before, the Israelis don't even really care about Gaza.

It'd be nice to steal that land and go surfing and build a condo or whatever. But God says, kill everybody on the West Bank and steal that. And so this is really the top priority. It's just the problem is there's more Palestinians there and all these built-up cities, more built-up cities that they'd have to destroy and cleanse.

And it's more politically difficult, I guess, for them to go ahead with that. But then again, it's, you know, we're seeing crystal knock type pogroms going on over there all the time at the hands of Israeli settlers. That's fine. Attacks on Janine and all that. Gaza matters for Israel because they understand it's a line of defense not only for Gaza, but for the West Bank as well. If Gaza falls, what are the chances of the West Bank being able to withstand a prolonged fight against Israel? So that's really the calculation.

They want to get rid of Gaza. In fact, I think it was Rabin who when said, I might be incorrect on this, but definitely a top-notch leader in the Israeli government that said, or maybe it could have been Harris, who once said that I wish to wake up one morning and to see Gaza being swallowed by the sea. They really don't want to go to Gaza.

And this whole gibberish about Gaza becoming a resort and not a resort, well, they don't have any other. Gaza is very small. You're talking about 365 square kilometers, 181 square miles. They could find areas to build the resorts elsewhere. I think this is just something to entice those interested in that sort of business to get excited about the idea of destroying Gaza. But as you said, the real fight, the real struggle, the real outcome,

or rather more correctly, the real outcome of the Gaza fight is what's going to happen in the West Bank. Two days ago, on Rwam, the United Nations Refugee Agency for Palestinians, came up with a report that said that there are 12,000 Palestinian children who are displaced in the northern West. 12,000. That means that there are thousands of Palestinian families in the West Bank who've been pushed out of their home.

Where? As you said, Janine, Tulkarim, Inshams, Balata, and other. places. Inshams completed, destroyed that refugee camp. They had been pushed out under the cover of the Gaza genocide, very little media coverage of their plight. They have never been restored to their own homes that most likely would be erased in order for more Israeli settlements to be built.

So this is really the big fight is the West Bank, that nobody seems to be talking about it. On our side, maybe we're not talking about it because the nature of the horror underway in Gaza, but others are not interested in talking about it because it also means accountability and pressure and that sort of thing in the rest of the international community. But we need to be talking about the West Bank because this is Israel's gaze, has been at the West Bank from the very beginning while they are killing large number of Palestinians in Gaza.

They are building settlements, destroying home, ethnically cleansing, entire communities, especially in the northern part of the region. Yeah. All right, you guys. that is Ramsey Baroud. His great publication is called Palestine Chronicle. That's at Palestine Chronicle.com. He's a regular at anti-war.com.

And again, academic fellow at the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom. I urge you all to really check out his fantastic course at the Scott Horton Academy, the reality of the Israel-Palestine conflict. And I thank you for being part of the academy with me and the rest of the guys, Ramsey. It's a really fantastic course. I think I'm going to take it again, in fact. That's fantastic. It's a great honor, really.

Thank you for including me and including Palestine and that critical discussion, and I wish you all the success. Thank you. This Scott Horton show is brought to you by the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom, Roberts & Roberts, Brokerage, Inc., Moondos Artisan Coffee, Tom Woods Liberty Classroom, and APS Radio News. Subscribe in all the usual places and check out my books,

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