Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 1/9/25 Lindsey Snell on Syria, the Caucuses and the Recent Triumphs of Al-Qaeda

Episode Date: January 11, 2025

Scott had journalist Lindsey Snell on Antiwar Radio this week to talk about the fall of Assad, the ongoing land dispute between Armenia and Azerbaijan and the group that now runs Syria. Discussed on the show: Things Aren’t Great on YouTube Lindsey Snell is a journalist covering conflict and crises in the Middle East and North Africa, especially Syria, Iraq, Turkey, and Tunisia. She currently lives in Germany. Follow her on X @LindseySnell This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Robers Brokerage Incorporated; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For Pacifica Radio, January the 9th, 2025, I'm Scott Horton. This is Anti-War Radio. All right, y'all welcome the show. It is Anti-War Radio. I'm your host, Scott Horton. I'm the editorial director of Anti-War.com, and I'm the author of the new book, Provoked, how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia.

and the catastrophe in Ukraine. You can find my full interview archive, more than 6,000 of them now, going back to 2003 at Scott Horton.org and at YouTube.com slash Scott Horton Show and all the other podcatchers and video sites. Just look for the Scott Horton show there. And you can follow me on X, if you dare, at Scott Horton Show.

All right, introducing this week's guest. It's the great journalist Lindsay Snell, and her YouTube channel is called Things Aren't Great. and that's it too YouTube.com slash at things aren't great welcome the show how are you doing lizzie thanks I'm great I'm great I really appreciate you joining us and a little do you know but I've been a big fan of your journalism for many years now you were really great on the dirty war in Syria back 10 years ago and I've been following you off and on since then and I know that you're just completely on top of what's going on with the overthrow of the government in damascus

and other regional issues as well. So I was hoping we could start with just your broad assessment, if you could please, about recent events in Syria and what you think it's going to mean, particularly for the West. Well, I think that the fall of Assad was a complete surprise to almost everyone, including the former Free Syrian Army,

now Turkish-backed Syrian National Army mercenaries, who are the Syrian opposition who aren't al-Qaeda or racist, basically, they were all completely shocked. So complete surprise offensive. And unfortunately now the country is almost entirely controlled by the former Al-Qaeda affiliate, Hayatabir al-Shem. So now that's interesting. And I take responsibility too, especially after October the 7th of 23, all of us interested in these topics should have immediately gone to,

wow, I wonder what's going to happen in the Idlib province when they try to break out of their pen and pull the same stunt. And then the answer was, well, Hezbollah and Iran aren't there to help. And so they're screwed, I guess. Yeah, not only Hezbo and Iran, but also Russia. And you know, there's even a small contingent of peacekeepers or there were in Aleppo. And the Russians, the Armenians, they all left days before this started. Not only that, but they were told to prepare as much as a week before.

So, I mean, everyone knew. I mean, I think people knew right before. and it was just a complete abandonment of Assad, complete pullout, there was no one left to stop, Al-Qaeda basically. Yeah. So I guess, I mean, Hezbollah obviously have their own problems and same with the Russians.

The Iranians and the Iraqi Shiites, they might have helped, but they would have needed more time, essentially to mobilize and get in there when the whole thing from the breakout of Idlib to the sacking of Damascus took, what, two weeks, two and a half weeks, something like that? Yeah, I think it was under two weeks, actually, it was 11 days, basically.

Yeah. So you can see how even if the Ayatollah, or both Ayatollahs in Iraq and Iran, if they really wanted to send their guys, they just didn't have the time, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I think that there were discussions. Hachshahibi, who are the Iranian militias and Iranian back militias in Iraq. I think we're planning on sending fighters, but they were strongly warned not to. I don't know if I would call this HTS breaking out of their pen and Nidlib

because I think that this was undoubtedly Western engineered basically just handing the country to HTS. I mean, there's no way that this would have happened without the complicity of the West. Okay, so, all right, wait, hold that thought one second because I want to go back to that. We're going to do a deep study on how things got that way,

but let me just hit you with the sort of kind of surface critique that I'm sure you're familiar with, which is that look, if the government fell, it must be because he didn't have the popular support to stay in power. He had to rely on Russia, Iran,

and Hezbollah to prop him up. Then maybe the good guys won here. Lindsay, what about that? I think he definitely didn't have the popular support and was essentially a puppet by the end, completely controlled by Russia and Iran.

And of course, like the Syrian military was in shambles, just completely undermanned, underfunded, underarmed. But there were no good guys to step in and take over. It was just handing it from one dictatorship to a Islamic dictatorship, basically. Well, and I think that's the important point right there is, you know, in, of course, our government's major narratives here. There's the good guys and the bad guys. And if you're not on the side of the good guys and you're on the side of the good guys and you're on the side the bad guys. We can see the way that they talk about Tulsi Gabbard pretending somehow she had some kind of personal loyalty to Bashar al-Assad or to Vladimir Putin that somehow was transferred

down to Assad when in fact all that happens and everybody knows this all that happened is that she was in Iraq War II. And so when they told her that the Sunni insurgency are now the good guys when they're on the Syrian side of the line, she just wasn't willing to roll over so easily. It was all it was. But the way that they put it, you know, Bari Weiss, I think, summed up the point of view of the entire American foreign policy and media establishment. Well, she's just Assad's toady, even though Bari Weiss didn't know what Tody meant. She kind of had an inkling. And so that's the way that they say it. One side is good and the other side is bad. And you're saying, well, no, it's one dictatorship being swapped out for another, huh? Exactly. And I'm very

personally familiar with this vilification of sort of telling the truth. I was kidnapped by this group, Hayatari al-Sham, back when they were Jabital Nusa, and still officially the Al-Qaeda affiliate. And so after I escaped and, you know, I got out and I wrote a piece about it, and I said in the piece, you know, Russia is bombing civilians, the Syrian government is bombing civilians that is happening. But these rebels have now been completely co-opted by the Al-Qaeda affiliate. And they're enforcing this brutal Sharia law in the areas that they control. It's only getting worse. And I was immediately vilified by all of the sort of free Syrian army loving Western journalists who said I was hurting the cause essentially by telling the truth about what these rebels

and these rebels and who they'd become. So here's where we go back to 10 years ago. I like to make the analogy that when W. Bush 20 years ago invaded Iraq, just imagine if Saddam Hussein had been in the middle of trying to put down not a Shiite uprising, but But a bin Ladenite insurgency, a radical Sunni insurgency led by bin Ladenite suicide bombers. And then W. Bush had decided to invade and overthrow him in the middle of that. That was essentially what Barack Obama was doing. Here this guy is putting down an insurrection that is led by Osama bin Laden's men. And the question is, the only question was 10 years ago, why won't Obama do more to help the terrorists win?

And the basic background, I say this every day, but nobody ever seems to catch on, it's that W. Bush gave Iraq to the Shiites. So now they had to try to take Syria away from them. That's all it was, is Iran's allies, the Alawites, who helped them to back Hezbollah, their enemies of the Israelis. So even though it wasn't Hezbollah that knocked our towers down, our government is more loyal to Israel. Hell, they hit the Pentagon even. So America prefers al-Qaeda because Israel prefers al-Qaeda. What am I missing? And nothing. That's absolutely right.

I mean, Israel was treating al-Qaeda fighters in its hospitals and directly supporting other still extremist factions of the Free Syrian Army. So, I mean, there's really no question. And, of course, it was Netanyahu and his neo-conservative agents in America that had the United States get rid of Saddam in the first. place causing this massive increase in Iranian power that then necessitated the dirty war for al-Qaeda 10 years ago, which as we all remember everybody, remember they went east and they sacked Western Iraq and they created the Islamic State Caliphate. This time they went west and they sacked Damascus. But I guess that's a good question for you, Lindsay. Do you think that they're

coming back to Western Iraq? I don't think at this point, they seem to be completely towing the line and doing what the West wants. And I think that they're going to stay in their little area for now. I mean, they're not even saying anything when Israel's taking, Israel's still bombing weapons depots. And clearly they're the ones telling Israel where the weapons depots are. So I think they're just completely playing their part as Western puppets essentially. All right. Now, I know that a huge part of bin Laden and his men's motive for attacking the United States was U.S. support for Israel. And as we just talked about, we understand why Israel prefers al-Qaeda in Syria to the Shiites because the Shiites back Hezbollah and that's their bigger worry, I guess.

But I admit I have a little bit of trouble understanding why al-Qaeda is so cooperative with Zionist goals. You would think, for example, that Jolani, the leader of al-Qaeda in Syria now, the leader of the government there now, that by kowtowing to Israel so much that he would be completely destroying his legitimacy with his own guys. even risking a coup from completely kowtowing. And again, I understand that the Israelis are supporting them, but then again, al-Qaeda doesn't mind bite in the hand that feeds them, as we've seen. I think that an important series of events was Jolani's sort of consolidation of power,

where he systematically took out everyone who was very against his burgeoning relationship with the West and sort of willingness to do what the West wanted. So he basically took out anyone. who would be opposing him now. That's not to say, I mean, no one knows the real number of HTS fighters, but at least 10,000, let's say. And most of them are hardline Islamists who are not going to be okay in the future with continuing this sort of like Western puppet show, I don't think.

Yeah, I keep wondering how long before one of his own guys kills him for being such an obvious sellout, wearing a three-piece suit and not shaving it off, but certainly trimming his beard. And, you know, it was a few years ago, hmm, three or four or five years ago, I guess, that Martin Smith at PBS Frontline did a special all about Jolani and helping to rehabilitate him. It was clear that this was an American and Turkish public relations campaign to remake the guy and put him back out there.

And I'd barbecue the hell out of Martin Smith for his acquiescence with this plan on this radio show at the time. It was funny. As soon as the show was over, he goes, God dang, what is this Fox News? I was like, dude, Fox News agrees with you about supporting al-Qaeda in Syria. You're saying it's Fox News because I grilled you about your treason. How in the world can people forget who's zooming who here? Who blew up whose towers in the past here? You know, and by the way, it wasn't just September 11th. They were killing Americans all through the 1990s before September 11th, too. And, of course, were the vanguard of the very worst part of the Sunni insurgency that killed 4,000 out of the 4,500 Americans who died in Iraq War II, which it's not their fault that the Americans were there, but still is true about them and their history. And in fact, Lindsay, isn't that where Abu Mohammed al-Jolani comes from, Iraq War II? Yeah, I mean, he was before he formed Jabid al-Nusbrook, he was a member of the Islamic state in Iraq, which that's just al-Qaeda in Iraq, Zarkawi, and the suicide bombers, right?

Bin Laden Smith. Yep, and 100%. And actually, it was even before the PBS special. on Jolani. For years, these Western think tanks, you know, Atlantic Council, Middle East Institute, have been slowly trying to whitewash Javdal Newsrow, HTS. I mean, while they were still stoning women to death for adultery and blasphemy and Edlib, you had, like, Atlantic Council writing good things about Jolani and their organization and their discipline, and it's just been such a long, ridiculous process. And, you know, someone watching it, I'm still shocked

that this is the result, even though that was clearly the plan. Yeah, yeah, totally agree. And for people doubtful, I mean, go and just do a search, go site colon, foreign affairs.com, the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, the center of the American foreign policy establishment since World War I. And they've got no less than four articles about how Al Qaeda are the good guys now. One of them is called accepting Al Qaeda. And there are three or four more about, oh, and Jashal Islam and whatever, naming other. bin Ladenite militias that were fighting at that same time. And again, just because they think the Shiites are worse. But so, well, and I guess let's get to this, because you already mentioned how you don't dispute the idea, the fact that Bashar al-Assad ran a hereditary dictatorship and an incredibly violent one. Do you think overall that it's certain that the new al-Qaeda under American and Turkish public relations and even, you know, military and intelligence control that they could possibly be less worse, at least as long as Jolani's in power than the Assad regime

for overall for the health of the population of Syria? Certainly, that's the narrative on TV. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I think one of the factors that would really affect that would be the U.S. sanctions Because once those are lifted, and I think it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that they will be. I mean, this is a lot of what made, you know, not just, not just Assad's dictatorship and, you know, the Macawarat and the secret police and just the sort of oppressive atmosphere. It was also the U.S. sanctions that were just completely strangling the average Syrian. So I think that that's already easing up. And this is also what makes this look really Western engineered is that immediately, HTS like brought fuel and they brought, you know, more electricity,

and they brought food and everything was cheaper. And there are Turkish products. and all the stores now, and they can use other currencies when that was a big prime under the Assad regime. So, I mean, I think that it's going to look a lot nicer and be a lot easier at the beginning, but the oppressive aspects are just going to change. Instead of it, instead of, you know, the Assad regime had issues with Kurdish independence and Kurdish education, now it's going to be against the Eloyates, against the Christians. You know, the minorities that were protected under the Assad regime won't be. They'll be the ones that are targeted under HTS.

Yes. Well, and so that's a huge point, right, that a lot of the problems of the Assad regime can actually be pinned at the feet of the Americans and our European allies and our Gulf allies for not just the dirty war 10 years ago, but the ongoing economic war, the occupation of the East by American forces and the seizing of their oil and their grain resources and all the rest of this, that then I could see why, yeah, even the Kada guys would get the credit when economic life gets started again when really it's Joe Biden finally taking his boot off their neck a little bit as all. Exactly. And I mean, I guess that's the point of sanctions. I mean, they were, the sanctions weren't hurting the Assad regime or any of the elites. They were hurting the average Syrians. And I mean, now we're going to see the reversal of that a bit. Oh, no. Lindsay, you know, sorry, but you know what this means. This is we used to always argue that this doesn't work, right? They tried this.

against Saddam Hussein, these sanctions, they try this against the Russians until they'll give in and overthrow the guy we don't like for us. And now here's an example of it. Oh, no, it worked. God, I mean, it works, but it's like an image thing. Like, I don't think they were going to take a thought out regardless. I don't think the sanctions were the deciding factor in this. It was just, you know, a decade of absolute cruelty against the Syrian people. It's just such a crazy thing to use. But yeah, I'm sure that this will be a case study. and why these sanctions work and should be used against, you know,

dictators who don't do what the West wants. What a world. Hey, y'all, let me tell you about Robertson Roberts, Brokerage, Inc. Nobody trusts the U.S. dollar anymore. Foreign governments are stocking up on gold instead of $100 bills. One, they know they need to, and two, that means you need to too. Interest rates are up, but for some reason not much for savings accounts. Park your money there and watch Uncle Joe Biden just counterfeit its value.

you away. You can see how the Fed is afraid to raise rates to beat inflation for fear of popping the current bubbles, at least before the election. So more inflation it will continue to be. Gold is your shield against monetary and price inflation, just like it always has been. Now Tim Fry and the guys over at Roberts are recommending gold over silver, since the world's almost 200 governments are putting their own pressure on the price, which should help everyone else who makes similar calls on their own. Of course, Roberts and Roberts can help you with platinum, palladium, and silver as well as gold. Don't let the Fed and the war party inflate all your savings away.

Look up Roberts and Roberts at RRBI.co. That's RRBI.c-R-Bi.Co. Hey, y'all, you should sign up for my substack. It's Scott Horton's show.substack.com. And if you do that, you'll get the interviews a day before everybody else. But not only that, they'll be free of commercials. How do you like that? Pretty good, huh?

Scott Horton's show.substack.com. Hey, y'all, Libertasbella.com is where you get Scott Horton Show and Libertarian Institute shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, and stickers and things, including the great top lobstas designs as well. See, that way it says on your shirt, why you're so smart. Libertas Bella, from the same great folks who bring you ammo.com for all your ammunition needs, too. That's libretasbella.com. Hey, y'all got kids or nephews or anything? You know about the Tuttle Twins books, right? Libertarian lessons about life, liberty, truth, and the state.

It's really great stuff. And hey, did you guys know I'm a Tuttle Twin? Or, well, I'm a character in their world now. Skater Scott. Local Vert Dog and anti-government know it all. They introduced me in a short book last year, and I hear they're going to develop my character's story a bit more in the future. Cool, right?

Anyway, they're now celebrating 10 years and having sold millions of these books. And now they're giving away free magazine at Tuttle Twins.com slash 10 years. There's no shipping charge, and they're not going to ask for your credit card. It's just a free magazine. The gimmick is that inside the magazine, they've got a really great deal to get all the books, the best deal they've ever offered, which you will certainly want to take them up on. So go to Tuttle Twins.com slash 10 years for your free magazine, and someday, hopefully soon, you and your kids will be reading all about the libertarian antics of cartoon me, along with all my new pals. That's tuttwins.com slash 10 years.

It is Antoora Radio. I'm talking with the great Lindsay Snell. She is such a great independent journalist covering the Middle East and for the last decade or so there. And the caucuses too. And I'm so glad that I have the opportunity to ask a real expert about the relationship between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Of course, there's a huge Armenian population in Los Angeles that are extremely interested in this subject. And on this show, we've covered the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh over the years going back. But, of course, in the fall of 23, Azerbaijan finally cleansed that little Armenian enclave of Artsakh or Nagorno-Karabok there.

But then, as we talked about on the show, we have a similar but opposite situation where there's actually a piece of Azerbaijan that is separated by, part of Armenia and they're demanding an easement a corridor or worse and that is surprising kind of when you consider how many Armenian Americans there are and how political they are and how many I've actually talked to some Armenian Americans about this Lindsay who explained to me how they have like severe populations in various parts not just in Los Angeles but I think you know some towns in Ohio were mentioned or wherever there, there are enclaves of Armenian Americans who exercise and try very hard to exercise political influence as best as they can. But that's just nothing compared to the fact that Azerbaijan hosts the BTC pipeline. And Aliev, of course,

is compliant with American goals. Speaking of hereditary dictatorships. So can you tell us a little bit about Azerbaijan and the dictator there and his plans for Armenia now? So in 2020, Of course, Azerbaijan launched war on Armenia and the enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh, and has launched subsequent attacks until finally, like you said, ethnically cleansing it in the fall of the 2023. But really, Azerbaijan's goal is to take all of Armenia. Azerbaijan has this initiative called the Western Azerbaijan community, which is Azerbaijani's who used to live in Armenian territory.

And they say that it's historically all Azerbaijani land. All of Armenia is historically Azerbaijani land. And as such, they have a right to it. They have a right to go back there. And as far as the enclave that you were talking about, that's a Azerbaijani Nakhijavan, which is sort of like, Armenia is basically a wedge between Azerbaijan, Nakhijavan. And Azerbaijan's goal, and actually Turkey's goal as well,

is to build what they want to call the Zangazor corridor, which will bisect Armenia essentially and connect Azerbaijan to Nahi Javan. But Azerbaijan demands that its own, military be sort of stationed on this road, no Armenian checkpoints, no Armenian military, meaning that it's going to be an Azerbaijani occupation by secting the country of Armenia. This is another thing that is very good for the West, that the West is very supportive of, because the goal is to make a trade route that can exclude Russia and Iran. Now, I'm not very good at this. I tried to write about this in my recent book, and I hope I

I got this right. I think I was cripping off of experts who had it right. That due to some intervention, but also just decisions made by the Armenian government, they essentially sacrificed their relationship with Russia for they hoped a better one with the United States, but they got nothing out of it here. And essentially they sacrificed their Russian protection in exchange for nothing from the United States. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. And also the relationship between Russia and Azerbaijan is ongoing. And it's pretty actually crazy. Once the war in Ukraine started and the EU made a big push to stop using Russian oil, they turned to Azerbaijan as one of their suppliers. Azerbaijan, in turn, didn't have the capacity to supply Europe and the

quantities they needed. So it began massively increasing its imports of Russian gas. So essentially, Europe is buying laundered Russian gas from Meservijan at a markup, and I live in Germany. We're just screwed economically from this. It's been years of sort of economic degradation as a result of not wanting to buy Russian gas, but still buying Russian gas from Meservijan, which is a dictatorship, authoritarian governments, some of the worst press freedoms in the world, they disappear, dissidents of political critics. It's horrible. It's just absolutely absurd.

And now, I read a thing that it wasn't quite specific enough in its claims. I think it was even at the Woodrow Wilson Center website. Oh, I think. And they weren't quite specific on this. But the implication, I think, was that it was Russian oil was being piped through the BTC pipeline. Is that correct? Can you verify that? I'm not sure.

I think that the Azerbaijani state oil company, Socar, is completely opaque. But there's a refinery in Izmir, I think, ismere Turkey that's handling a lot of the, I guess a lot of the gas that's coming to Europe. And almost all of it, 90% of it or something, is Russian oil that's come from Azerbaijan. So it's just. I mean, it's literally a liquid. So it's a literal and figurative liquid asset and completely fungible. So it might as well be. Russian oil coming through the BTC, even if it's going by truck or a different pipeline still. The fact that the West is buying Russian oil through Azerbaijan, when the whole point of American support for Aliev in the first place is so that we have that pipeline to keep

the Russians out, to freeze them out. Totally. And as you were saying, so Armenia has essentially sabotaged its relationship with Russia and gotten rid of a lot of the Russian forces that were sort of providing some aspects of security and their borders and such as to sort of appease the West, but again, like you said, they're not getting anything out of it. And actually, the U.S., the West is definitely supporting Azerbaijan more than Armenia. And we'll continue to do so. I mean, I don't think America cares if Azerbaijan and Turkey build a corridor through Armenia and completely kill the security infrastructure of Armenia. Like, it's more important to them that Russian influence is reduced in the region. Well, now, so,

Aliyev's plan overall, that is audience, again, the hereditary dictator, American-supported satrap in Azerbaijan. His goal of ultimately taking all of Armenia, does he have a plan for where he is to cleanse all the Armenians to, or he just plans on keeping them and kidnapping them? Well, the stated mission now is that they'll peacefully coexist. So like I mentioned the Western Azerbaijan community, which Aliev created shortly. after the war in 2020, and it's basically getting bigger and bigger, and they've paid for it to have a TV station. They're sending reps to the UN at COP 29, the climate change conference in Azerbaijan. There was a big Western Azerbaijan presence. So, I mean, they're working overtime

to sort of legitimize this group, which is essentially laying claim to all of Armenia. And what Aleyev says is now he wants Prime Minister Bishinian in Armenia to receive a delegation of Western Azerbaijani officials to come and talk about how to peacefully coexist and the return of the Azerbaijani's who used to live in Armenia. Meanwhile, again, the Gordo Carabakh is now completely ethnically cleansed of Armenians. And there's no right of return for them. Their homes and their businesses have already been taken and given away. So, I mean, it's just a slow, very Western-friendly process of additional ethnic cleansing. I mean, that's really Aleyev's plan is just to sort of say one thing and do another. So now he says they want

dialogue and peace, but really he just wants more of a foothold in Armenia. And then he'll launch new attacks. And again, the West will do nothing, say nothing. And how close is he to Erdogan in Turkey? They're basically the same country. I mean, I would say if Azerbaijan didn't have the resources it does, it would be a satellite of Turkey, but Azerbaijan is still basically subservient to Turkey in all ways. Okay, so this takes us back to Syria. I still got some wonderings there. I just wonder, what do you think that means for the near-term future here? I don't think there's any real alternative in Syria now, and I think that was by design.

I think, honestly, once the war in Syria started 2012, basically, there were three different groups. I mean, sort of discounting the Kurds for right now, but the Free Syrian Army, and then there was Nusra, Al-Qaeda, and ISIS. I think that the Free Syrian Army proved to be too undisciplined and too chaotic and constant infighting, and so they weren't useful to the U.S. at some point, and Turkey took them over, made them into mercenaries, deployed them to Libya, deployed them to Azerbaijan, sort of separately. Isis was completely unmanageable, crazy, dangerous. And al-Qaeda is the most disciplined and the most manageable, the most malleable, the most useful to the West. Because they're so disciplined and they're so

sort of together. I think that's why they're now the rulers of Syria. But I think that's why they're also going to be a huge danger in the future once CNN leaves Damascus and people aren't paying attention anymore. And they can do al-Qaeda stuff, which is, I think, inevitable Syria. I think that the future is really bleak. I mean, there's still the question of the Kurdish controlled areas, which Turkey is, again, hell-bent on attacking. Turkey just the other day bombed civilians near the Tishrine Dam near Kobani and killed civilians, Turkish air strike. So I think that there's still a lot going on with that. But in general, I think the future is bleak and it's al-Qaeda in Syria. Yeah. And so does that mean then the Shiites, the

Christians, and I know there are a few different factions and sects of Christians there, and then even the secular Sunnis, they ought to all be running like hell right now? Or they all already are? I wouldn't want to say that and create panic. I mean, I talk to a lot of, but there's a huge Armenian community in Aleppo and Lataki and Damascus. So I talked to a lot of Armenians who are in Aleppo, and I've sort of talked to them from the start. And again, the first thing that HTS did was come in and talk about how much they,

love Christians and how they're going to be super tolerant and, oh, look, it's a Christmas tree. And, you know, they had a HTS affiliated journalist sort of harassing Christians on the street and talking to them. So, I mean, I think that for a while, at least they're safe because they have to keep the image of being tolerant up. But if you look at Idlib and, you know, the HTS stronghold and what they did to the Christians there, and I think there was a free war population of 10,000 Christians or something, so not many. But after the HTS takeover of Idlib, there were only a couple. hundred left and they're mostly very old. You know, they stole Christian businesses and homes. They forbade like the display of crosses outside. They forbade church bells. You know, priests and

pastors couldn't wear their religious clothing outside. It's just complete oppression. And I mean, I think that that's, it's al-Qaeda. It's inevitable that that's going to happen again. I'm so sorry that we're out of time. I would like to interview you for another while or so here. I have so many more questions, but the YouTube channel, everybody, is YouTube.com slash Things Aren't Great with the great journalist Lindsay Snell. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. And that's anti-war radio for today, everybody.

I'm Scott Horton, Scott Horton.org for all this stuff, and I'm here every Thursday from 2.30 to 3 on KPFK, 90.7 FM in L.A. See you next week. Thank you.