Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 3/2/23 Dave DeCamp on the Blinken-Lavrov Chat, the Ukraine War and Sanctions on Syria

Episode Date: March 4, 2023

Dave DeCamp returns to Antiwar Radio this week to talk about the biggest foreign policy news stories. Scott and DeCamp run through the quick meeting between U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. They then take a step back and talk about the broader state of the war in Ukraine before finishing with the House vote to keep the sanctions on Syria in place as the nation tries to rebuild from last month’s massive earthquake.  Discussed on the show: “US, Russia hold highest-level talks since Ukraine invasion” (AP) news.antiwar.com “The CIA Is Using A European NATO Ally’s Spy Service To Conduct A Covert Sabotage Campaign Inside Russia Under The Agency’s Direction” (JackMurphy) “'Nonstop shelling': Former US Marine in Bakhmut, Ukraine, says fighting is 'chaotic'” (ABC News) Dave DeCamp is the news editor of Antiwar.com and the host of Antiwar News with Dave DeCamp. Follow him on Twitter @decampdave This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For Pacifica Radio, March 2nd, 2023, I'm Scott Horton. This is Anti-War Radio. All right, y'all welcome the show. It is Anti-War Radio. I'm your host, Scott Horton. I'm the editorial director of Anti-War.com, and I'm the editorials. of the book, Hotter Than the Sun. Time to Abolish Nuclear Weapons.

You can find my full interview archive, more than 5,800 of them now, going back to 2003 at Scott Horton.org and at YouTube.com slash Scott Horton Show. And you can follow me on Twitter, if you dare, at Scott Horton Show. All right, introducing our news editor at anti-war.com, Dave DeCamp.

And he also is the host of anti-war news, It's a great podcast on YouTube and also on all your great podcast catchers where he covers the top news for you every day as he does in writing at news dot antiwar.com. Welcome back to this show. Dave, how are you? Good, Scott. Thanks for having me back. Very happy to have you here. Big breaking news. Hit me. Yeah, so it looks like Secretary of State Anthony Blinken just met with Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov. And now this comes, you know, over a year after the Russian invasion. And this is their first known, you know, public face-to-face meeting.

This story just broke right before we talk. I saw a write-up by Matt Lee in the Associated Press. They met in New Delhi, India on the sidelines of the G20 summit. And according to Matt Lee, there was no indication of any movement toward easing tensions. No sign that, you know, the talks are going to lead to any sort of detente or any. anything like that, unfortunately. And they chatted for roughly 10 minutes. So pretty short meeting, but still significant news just because of, you know, how little they've talked. They've only held one known phone call since the invasion over a year ago. And that was over a prisoner swap. They

didn't even discuss, you know, the war in Ukraine, according to Blinken's account of it. It just shows, you know, how bad at his job he is because he is supposed to be America's top diplomat. Yeah, he is a monster. All right. So, I have Matt Lee's story here for people want to check this out. It's U.S. Russia hold highest level talks since Ukraine invasion, and this is huge. Is there any substance to the story as far as you know? All I've seen so far is Blinken's account of it, and he told that he told Lavrov, you know, end the war. That's what has to happen.

Russia has to withdraw, you know, that kind of that typical talking point. And he also urged Russia to reverse its decision to suspend new start, which is the last nuclear treaty between the two powers that Putin just suspended Russia's participation in. And he told Moscow to release Paul Wellen, who is a former, I believe he's a former U.S. Marine who's been locked up in Russia for a few years now. So kind of the typical talking points. But again, you know, this is just Blinken's public account. Who knows really what went down in this meeting? Maybe we'll see some more about it, get some leaks. But yeah, I mean, again, I think it's a good, maybe a good sign that they're talking at least at this point. And there are a lot of signs

that the Biden administration is thinking about winding this war down, although they're really pushing Ukraine to go on the offensive over these next few months, which risks a pretty huge escalation, of course. Anti-War Radio. Scott, we're here talking with Dave DeCamp from anti-war.com. And so talk more about that, the indications that the Biden administration is trying to figure out how to shift gears here. So when William Burns, the director of the CIA, went to Kiev in January and met with Zelensky, he told Zelensky that, you know, this is a pivotal moment in the war because we don't think we're going to be able to keep getting as much aid as we can. You know, they don't think they're going to get it through Congress is what they're telling Ukraine. Now, on the other hand, you know, we've seen some dissent from Republicans, but still overall, most Republicans, I think, would vote for Ukrainian aid. And of course, there's no opposition from the Democrats. So it seems like, it's something they're telling Ukraine that I don't know if is really true. And I've actually seen Ukrainian officials say that they think the administration might be using Congress as an

excuse to wind down the aid. Now, if they keep spending the current aid package, if you remember in December, Congress passed $45 billion for Ukraine. That brought the total of U.S. spending on the war to $113 billion. So they're still using that $45 billion when you see them announce new weapons packages, new economic aid. And if they keep spending it at this rate, it looks like it's going to dry up by the summer. And I saw Mike Rogers, who's the head of the House, I believe Armed Services Committee in Congress, say that he wants them to push Ukraine towards negotiations with Russia by the summer. But again, he's also calling for Biden to send fighter jets and longer range missiles so they can attack Crimea. So again, these next few months

are when the big risk of escalation is. also while they're thinking about winding it down, NATO has big ideas for Ukraine. They don't, you know, there's no sign they're going to try to make them a full member, but they want to sign deals with Ukraine that, you know, they're going to be able to access basically whatever Western military equipment they want in the future, including fighter jets. They want to start building weapons in Ukraine, manufacturing weapons there to really just, you know, solidify this NATO outpost on Russia's border. So from the Russian side, you know, I don't think there's any sign that they are looking for talks right now.

I think they have their goals in mind, which aren't exactly clear. I would guess they're going to focus on taking the rest of the Dombas. But they don't seem interested in talks right now. I think they've given up on that. So while the Biden administration is thinking about, you know, an end to this thing because they want to focus on China. I don't think Russia is right now. Man, what a mess.

All right. So tell us a little bit more about this threat of a Ukrainian attack on Crimea. Do you really expect that to come soon? Well, Zelensky said that they are preparing for it. But if you look at the map, you know, Russia still controls a good amount of territory to the north of Crimea, which isn't really under threat of any kind of Russian, sorry, Ukrainian push right now. So a real, you know, full-blown Ukrainian attempt to take Crimea, that's not going to happen anytime soon.

The question is if they're going to start launching more attacks on Crimea and the U.S., you know, Victoria Newland recently said. that they support Ukrainian attacks on the peninsula. And we've seen more sabotage and drone attacks inside Russia, inside, you know, mainland Russia, not Crimea. Just today, Russia is saying that some Ukrainian saboteurs, you know, open fire on some vehicles in Bryansk, which borders Ukraine. So we're seeing an increase in that, which I think risks in escalation.

Just the other day, Putin told the FSB, which is Russia's domestic intelligence agency, that Western intelligence agencies, you know, are involved in these operations inside Russia. That's the first time I've seen him say that. He might have said that earlier in the war, and I missed it. But it reminded me of that report from Jack Murphy, which we've discussed from back in December, he said that the CIA is using a NATO country's intelligence services to back sabotage attacks inside Russia. And here you have Putin saying something similar. So all this stuff, again, the attacks on Crimea and these operations inside Russia

risk a huge escalation. And you have Medvedev, you know, always threatening that Russia is willing to defend itself at nukes. He's the former Russian president, but he's still in the government. He's on the Security Council. So dangerous, dangerous stuff, which is kind of being downplayed now by Biden, which is strange. The U.S. is kind of downplaying the risk more so now than they were a few months ago. All right. So tell us about the Chinese peace proposal. Yeah. So the China put out this 12-point plan, which was kind of just a a general outline for a way to bring an end to the war. They didn't say anything specific, like hold referendums here or they get this territory. The main gist of it was stop fighting and

enter peace talks. And that's what China's been calling for this whole time. And what I thought was interesting, Russia kind of dismissed it, but they're always talking to China. They said they're happy to talk about it. Zelensky expressed kind of an openness to it. I think he's trying to keep some sort of relations with China. He said he wants the president Xi Jinping to visit Ukraine. But then he had Biden's just say, just completely dismiss it, say that China shouldn't even be involved in negotiations, you know, showing how the U.S. has been discouraging real peace talks this whole time. And this comes as the U.S. is accusing China of considering arming Russia, but I haven't seen any signs that's going to happen. China has been saying that

sending weapons into the conflict is not, it's counterproductive and would prolong the war. So I'd be surprised if they say that publicly and then turn around and start arming Russia. Well, folks, sad to say, they lied us into war. All of them. World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq War I, Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq War II, Libya, Syria, Yemen, all of them. But now you can get the ebook, All the War Lies, by me, for free. just sign up the email list at the bottom of the page at scott horton.org or go to scotthorton.org slash subscribe get all the war lies by me for free and then you'll never have to believe them again

hey y'all scott here let me tell you about roberts and roberts brokerage ink who knew artificial bank credit expansion leads to price inflation and terribly distorted markets if you've got any savings left at all you need to protect them need to put some at least into precious metals. Well, Roberts and Roberts can set you up with the best deals on silver, gold, platinum, and palladium, and they've been doing this since 1977. Hey, if you just need some sound advice about sound money, they're there for you, too. Call Tim Fry and the guys at 800, 874-9760.

That's 800874-9760, or check them out at rrbi.co. That's rrbi.com. CO. You'll be glad you did. What did your ancestors really do all day? Beyond names, what were their lives like? With Ancestry's global historical records, you can discover incredible stories about how your ancestors lived and worked. And for a limited time, you can explore select occupation records for free.

Imagine finding your great-grandfather's RCMP records or discovering your ancestors' name in the UK and Ireland Nursing Register. Don't miss out. Free access ends August 24th. Visit Ancestry.ca for more details. Terms apply. Yeah, you know, they did that almost a year ago. They accused the Chinese of that. And then later they backed down and said, well, we were just kind of bluffing about that.

Yeah, there was a report in NBC News that said it was based on no solid evidence or something, that claim. One more thing on Ukraine before we switch real quick. I hope we have time. But there was this report in ABC News about this American Marine who's been fighting with the Foreign Legion there. in the dawn pass and what he had to say about the war yeah and this american marine you know he said that the estimated you know life expectancy of a ukrainian soldier fighting on the front line around bachmood is four hours and i mean it's just an anecdote from somebody that says that they've been there but i think it really shows how brutal uh that fight is you know it's a huge artillery battle

and you know he called it the meat grinder and we've been hearing a lot of of accounts like that i thought it was interesting to hear, you know, an American former Marine say that. And the Ukrainians are still holding on to Bakhmut, which is a city, small city in Donetsk, a pre-war population of about 70,000. The battle, the current battle started in August 2022. So it's been going on for a long time. And the U.S. and Germany and other NATO countries have said that they think Ukraine is, you know, spending too many resources on this city. And Russian forces, you know, they just started making gains around the city in January, and they're starting to slowly encircle it. So there's signs that they might pull out.

Ukrainian officials are saying that they might pull out and that they don't want to, you know, lose too many people. But it seems like they're losing a lot. And, you know, they keep a really tight lid on the casualty numbers. So I thought that kind of anecdote gives us a peek into how brutal this battle is, how much artillery they're using. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Now, in the Middle East, I told you so.

looks like we're switching sides in the Yemen war again, huh? Yeah, so there's been so far two reported suspected U.S. drone strikes. I haven't seen U.S. Central Command officially take credit for them. And sources, you know, on the ground are from the Saudi back government, have said that they targeted al-Qaeda. And this comes as the Saudis and the Houthis do seem like they're close to a deal, which would be great. They just let a container ship carrying general cargo goods.

into Hodata, which is Yemen's Red Sea port, for the first time since 2016. That just shows how they've been enforcing this blockade, even though the U.S. has lied and said the country's not under blockade. I think that really demonstrates it. And that was done to facilitate these peace talks that are going on. So as we see that, we see two U.S. airstrikes against al-Qaeda in Mara, but probably in the Saudi-backed governments controlled territory, because we know that they have used al-Qaeda in their fight against the Houthis. There's been a lot of reporting on this

that they have hired al-Qaeda fighters to fight the Houthis, and weapons being sold to the Saudis and the UAE are ending up in al-QA-P's hands, AQAP's hands. So, yeah, it looks like as that war is winding down, there's a chance. You know, there have been occasional U.S. air strikes against AQAP this whole time. And actually, the year that the U.S. bombed Yemen the most, you know, U.S. airplanes and drones we're talking about was in 2017 was Trump's first year in office. The U.S. military reported 131 airstrikes, and they said they were targeting AQAP, while at the same time really supporting the Saudi coalition against the Uthis. Since that year, it really winded down. In 2022, last year, the military claimed no air strikes,

but air wars, which is that great monitoring group, they recorded two suspected U.S. air strikes. So two last year, two this year, and it's still pretty early on, so we could be looking at an escalation of that. Yeah. Well, most of Al-Qaeda just joined the UAE's militias. So once, you know, that part of the war is over, they're going to have a much bigger AQAP to bomb from here on out. That'll be a whole new war to oppose. But as you're describing, it's kind of running at idle right now. But now, real quick, before we end, tell me about the earthquake relief.

Well, yes, so, you know, the U.S. has these really crippling economic sanctions on Syria that are specifically designed to prevent the country from rebuilding after war. That's the Caesar Act, it's called. And Blinken has said that, that it's U.S. policy to oppose the reconstruction of Syria. So you have this big earthquake hit, and 5,900 people at least were killed in northwest Syria, both in al-Qaeda-controlled territory and government-controlled territory. When I say al-Qaeda, I mean HTS-Hayette, to really. El Sham. And so a lot of dead people, the U.S. sanctions were impeding aid as detailed by the Arab Red Crescent and, you know, UN experts as well put out a lot of statements on this, calling for the sanctions to be lifted. The U.S. issued a 180-day exemption for the sanctions, which applies to transactions related to earthquake relief. So again, the U.N. experts on this are saying it's good, but it's not enough. They say fully lift the sanctions. And what you tweeted about was Assad. So the Syrian president, there's been a lot more engagement with him just in recent years as it's clear he's not going anywhere. And the U.S. opposes, you know, countries normalizing with him

are upgrading relations. Since the earthquake, the U.S. has been saying they oppose, you know, Egypt's foreign minister just went there and the state department, Ned Price, said we oppose countries upgrading their ties with the side, even if, you know, it's part of helping them recover from this earthquake. They're like, they can do it without, you know, this engagement. And then the House the other day just voted, I mean, overwhelmingly, I believe the vote was 414 to 2 to keep sanctions on Syria after this earthquake. So it's a really cruel policy. And that's part of the reason why I focus on it, because I think it shows how bad, you know, these sanctions are. So again, you know, there's been that exemption, but still not good enough.

And even when the sanctions go back in place, they're designed to prevent reconstruction from the war. they're going to prevent reconstruction from the earthquake. Yeah. All right. I'm sorry we're all out of time, but that is Dave DeCampi's our news editor at anti-war.com and also check out his podcast, Anti-War News. Thank you, Dave.

Thanks, Scott. All right, y'all, and that's it for Anti-War Radio for today. I'm your host, Scott Horton, editorial director of anti-war.com, an editor of the new book, hotter than the sun. Time to abolish nuclear weapons. Find my full interview archive, more than 5,800 of them now,

going back to 2003 at Scott Horton. and follow me on Twitter at Scott Horton's show. I'm here every Thursday from 2.30 to 3 on KPFK 90.7 FM in L.A. See you next week.