Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 3/7/25 Dan McKnight on the Recent Progress Made with Defend the Guard

Episode Date: March 8, 2025

Dan McKnight returns to the show to talk about the ongoing effort to pass the Defend the Guard Act in state legislatures. First, he explains what Defend the Guard would do if passed and dispels common criticisms and misunderstandings of the bill. He then updates Scott on the progress made recently, including the positive statements made by now Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, and explains how you can help get this bill passed in your state. Discussed on the show: DefendTheGuard.us BringOurTroopsHome.us TenSevenClub.com Dan McKnight is the founder and Chairman of Idahoans to Bring Our Troops Home. He served in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserves, three years active duty with the U.S. Army and ten years with the Idaho Army National Guard, including a one-year deployment to Afghanistan in 2006. This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Robers Brokerage Incorporated; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show. I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of anti-war.com, author of the book, Fool's Aaron, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and The Brand New, Enough Already, Time to End the War on Terrorism. And I've recorded more than 5,500 interviews since 2004. almost all on foreign policy and all available for you at scothorton.4 you can sign up the podcast feed there and the full interview archive is also available at youtube.com slash scott horton's show all right you guys on the line i've got the great dan mcnight he is the leader of bring our troops home dot us and of the defend the guard movement which is a gigantic and important thing maybe the most

important thing in the whole world going on right now based out of defend the guard dot us welcome back to the show how you doing good scott thanks for me back on and thanks that incredible intro a lot to live up to yeah you're doing listen uh tell me all about how great you're doing i want to here. Wait, first of all, tell us, what's the Defend the Guard Act and then tell us how great you're doing? Yeah, Defend the Guard Act, a piece of state-based legislation because we can't trust the federal government. It tells the states that they pass the bill that they get for one brief moment in time to stop their National Guard from being deployed into federal service if the purpose is to go overseas and fighting combat that hasn't been declared by Congress.

And preach to the choir, there's no one listed to your show that doesn't know this. Congress hasn't done that since 1942. And so it gives the governor the authority to say, Nope, not today, Satan. The National Guard from Tennessee gets to stay home until you have a proper authorization. And we've got the bill now in over 30 states this year. We're fighting key battles. We just won for the third year in a row in the Arizona Senate yesterday with the great Wendy Rogers. We've had great victories in the Virginia House of Delegates with a unanimous 99 to zero vote. We've passed the Idaho Senate, the New Hampshire House. Key battleground victories in Montana and South Dakota. We're growing. The movement is on fire. And I think we're at the point now where the war machine knows exactly who we are. And they've got us in their crosshairs instead of the poor people in Hamas or Eastern Europe or the Horn of Africa.

They're looking at us now. So tell me, what do you and your friends at Bring Our Troops Home.us know about war? Well, what do you should ask? Bring Our Troops Home was founded by me, a veteran of the global war on terror. and our entire membership is extended to all veterans of the global war and terror. And on our mail list, when people sign up to get information from us, we ask them if they're a veteran, and we're at over 90% of our membership, people that we communicate with daily that are veterans of the global war and terror.

So when they sit down in front of their state legislators or their congressman, and they say this war is ridiculous, they've got skin in the game, and they're not able to just put their arm around them and thank the troops and excuse them out of their office. They have to listen because, well, God, day, we know we've been there. Yeah, well, what do you know about the Constitution? Just a thing or two. You know, I, I swore my hand and raised my hand, swore an oath to the Constitution to protect it against all enemies born and domestic. And I took that serious. I made that oath with the promise that I would pay with the value of my life. And so when you do that,

you have a tendency to maybe read and study a little bit. And, you know, I'm not so altruistic is not to not say that the Constitution should be changed over time. We have a process for that. But I think that the parts that exist that have been enshrined should be followed completely. And Congress has a sole authority to declare war. And they've been too chicken to do it for over 80 years. And so we're using the best lever of power we have, the most powerful amendment in the Constitution, the 10th Amendment, and allowing the states to interpose.

And instead of this roadblock, this check, this quality control system, between their own militia, their own National Guard in an overreaching federal government. All right. Now, there's so many different questions here that I'd like to ask you about. We're going to get back to the progress you're making because it's so important. But so if I was the devil's advocate, I would say that this is some kind of subversive thing. And what are you doing? How could you think that you could make the states go so far as to obstruct the national government

when they need to conduct our foreign policy and keep us all safe and things like that. that. You know, if you look at our membership, we are not the post-Vietnam, hate Ashbury, you know, counterculture hippies from, you know, the 70s. That's not us. Most of us maintain our military standards. We're still, you know, military haircuts reasonably fit. We still keep qualifications on our weapon systems and we would be the first ones that would show up for an actual invasion or attack on our homeland. The threat or the argument that this is a suburb tactic to keep America as in isolation of state and not involved in necessary wars of defense is ridiculous because this bill does nothing, not one thing to stop any of the authorized

purposes of the National Guard or the authority of the President at all. What it does is realign those authorities. The President does not have the authority to take the National Guard and go fight a war in Sudan. He doesn't have that authority, but there's a small little loophole in federal code. It's found in Title X. I can nerd out and tell anybody that really wants to know the details about it. But there's a loophole that allows the president to that because Congress hasn't done their job.

And this bill is just an attempt to close that loophole. And we believe firmly that if there's an issue so important, a threat so grave to the United States, that we're willing to commit blood of our sons and daughters and treasure into some faraway land because it's so important to America, then Congress should declare it, and then the National Guard should go fight and win America's wars. That's their job, but it's also our job is the civilians that control the military to ensure that they're not taken into undeclared unauthorized purposes. It's a very delicate system of checks and balances. And I think that's so important because it's not like you're asking Congress to just dot a eye or cross a T. You're asking them the state legislators to take, and the governors to take a very big step against American militarism.

but your argument is that essentially the government itself now the national government is outside of the law and you're asking these state governors state governments to close the loophole in the law that's allowed them to get away this far and you're using the constitutional system to do it and um so it's a certainly an interesting take but it's something that is hard for them to to balance i guess the idea in their mind because you are asking them to do something that is pretty severe even if that only means just enforcing the law right absolutely and uh you know it's important to remember and this this i spend most of my time with state legislators explaining this the states created the federal government it's not the other way around we're not beholden to them when they come into our

states and try and bribe us or use coercion to force us to do something that's their will that is not in alignment with the Constitution or federal law, the states don't have the right to it interpose. They have the duty. If you have an unruly child, it is your job. Your job to get them back in mind, not societies. And so the state governments have way more power than they know, but most of them are part-time legislators that are being led around by the nose by the executive branch in their own state, who is being led around by the threat of federal dollars, and at some point, America's just got to stand up and stop being okay with being bribed with our own damn tax money. We've paid that money. The goods and services that we're

entitled to is defense of a nation and a guarantee of a Republican form of government, both of them. And taking our sons and daughters to go fight in the Cocoa Wars in the Congo doesn't seem to align with either one of those, a Republican form of government or a national defense. And so we're just, we want the states to just flex. And the only way we're going to get this big swampy mess under control, the blob, is for the states to strip away one bit of their power, one bit of their ability to violate the law at will and take it away and enforce standards. But again, like we say, if there's a war that needs to be fought, the National Guard should be the force that goes and does it. You know, the founding fathers really deliberated

over this issue more than anything else was the ability to change the state of our nation from one of peace to one of war. They didn't want the executive in the federal government. to have that authority. They didn't really want Congress to have that authority, but that's where they settled. They wanted that authority to be in the states with the people because they spread the gunpowder around and they only authorized a militia. They didn't even authorize a standing army. And so we're just trying to get back into alignment. We're not trying to abolish the standing army. We're not trying to abolish the president's ability to respond to threats that he deems are important. He has the national military, the federal military to do that.

So if he wants to go bomb Soleimani, whether that's legal or not, not my argument today. My argument is he shouldn't be doing it with the men and women from Montana. He should be using the people at his disposal, the federal military, and we'll fight that war after, or that fight in the courts after we finish fighting this one. We've got to realign principles. We've got to take away half of his fighting force and put it back where it belongs in the power of the people. Yeah. You know, it's funny because it doesn't seem like it's too much to ask if the same people are asking, in essence, by authorizing the president to decide as congresses want to do or just ignoring it and letting the president do whatever he wants

it's still their authority the congresses and so in essence the buck stops with them either way even if they pass it and um so they're the ones asking people to not just kill people but also risk being killed in horrible ways to do these things doesn't seem like too much to ask for them to just obey the Constitution and vote for it. They're not putting themselves at risk at all in that sense other than for their upcoming re-election campaign. Yeah. And you know, the great Ron Paul in Congress in 2002

when we were being lied into the Iraq war, he had the stones to go to the floor of the Congress and say, hey, if we're going to go to war with Iraq, here is a declaration of war resolution. I will present it. My name will be on it. I will be the first to vote against it. But this is what we need to do.

and they laughed them out of the room. They laughed them out of the room because not another member of that 435 person body wanted to go back to their districts and explain why they voted to send their sons and daughters into a war that everybody knew. Anybody with the brain knew it was a lie. And so they punted.

They told the president, sir, you go ahead and decide. You make that decision and we'll fund it. We'll give you a blank check and we'll allow you to prosecute that war anywhere you want for any length of time, anywhere in the world for any reason that you deem necessary and we'll just be here like a cuck and write the check. And that's what Congress has turned into. They're just an innocent bystander and I use innocent loosely, just allowing their authority that we've given to them to be eroded

over time. We gave them very, very clearly defined powers from the people, very clear, things that the president can do and things that the Congress can do. And those seems to be the things that they just don't do. And we've, this is, there's only one way to get a realignment there, Scott, there's two ways, but one will get us booted off the radio, and it involves pitch, forks, and torches. But the other way is to use our lever of power. Our lever of power is with our state representatives. I see them when I go to the grocery store. When we go to church, when you drop your kids off at school, they're our neighbors. They represent 7 to 15,000 people. And so our lever of influence with them is infinitely more powerful than it is with some congressman that represents

50,000 or 500,000, I think it is now, 500,000. And so we have to, we lift where we stand. We fight from the best ground, the best advantage we have. And that's why I don't fight the swamps in D.C. I don't have any leverage. I don't have the high ground there. Yeah. I think it's such a wise strategy. And, hey, that's why it's federalism.

It's supposed to be this way. It's exactly how politics is supposed to work. And the fact that you guys are invoking the 10th Amendment and, you know, the framers and their intent in your own oaths is, I think the bonus, seeing all these bills being introduced by Republicans across the country is a really important, you know, milestone in American history. Really, it's undeniable. It's a huge shift. Oh, and by the way, I was going to say, man, I wish I still had that video. And I looked on C-SPAN before. Maybe someone can find that. It's from would have been October of 2002 when they're voting on the resolution for Rock War II. and just as you say, so correctly there, maybe you have the video, it's on the Foreign Affairs Committee when Ron Paul introduced the Declaration of War and then gave a short speech explaining why he was

going to vote against it, but why he was challenging the rest of them to vote for it since they loved war so much. And the chairman of the committee, Henry Hyde, told Dr. Paul, well, you know, that part of the Constitution is an anachronism. we don't go by that anymore he said Scott we had that exact same thing happened in a committee hearing in let me think for a second it might have been South Dakota this year we're a general it was Arizona excuse me a general the adjutant general of the Arizona National Guard when asked about what authority we have to be fighting in Syria right now he said you all are waiting for Congress to declare war that ain't going to happen anymore and he just passed it off as if that

is justification for everything else that we do after that. And it, in Montana on the house, I mean, talk about, it's not even circular reasoning, it's square reasoning or something like the guy is just, that's why we're here, dude. We're trying to force them to take that responsibility. Welcome to the conversation, Lieutenant General. If you could just have one second to respond in real time to their statements, you know, I would have said just that. I'm like, and that's why we're here, sir. And the arguments go downhill from there from the, from the, the opponents of the bill. On the floor of the Montana House yesterday, somebody had the audacity to stand up and say, if we pass this bill, it will create the next Holocaust. Scott, you can't

make it up. Really? It's almost like he couldn't bundle enough things together in one sentence. I'm surprised he didn't say, you know, 9-11, Holocaust, Hamas, Israel, and just push it all together into one sentence and everybody stand up and cheers and waves their Ukrainian flag. I mean, that's what he was trying to do is the biggest dog whistle. And that's what we're seeing all over the country is the arguments that they used to come with were once upon a time pretty solid. They argued money. Oh, we're going to lose federal funds. But once we've disproved all that bull crap and we've, you know, reminded them that they didn't swear an oath to federal subsidies. Now they're starting to come back with the emotional stuff. We're in Syria to protect Israel. I've heard that so many times this

last week. I don't even know where to start. They don't talk about the fact that we're in Syria with American boys firing American bullets at American dollars. You know, they don't talk about that kind of reasoning that we're fighting on every side of the war that we're supporting al-Qaeda. They want to talk about, you know, whatever dog whistle of the day. Hey, guys, I've had a lot of great webmasters over the years, but the team at Expanddesigns.com have by far been the most competent and reliable. Harley Abbott and his team have made great sites for the show and the Institute, and they keep them running well, suggesting and making improvements all along.

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Seriously, buy some. And thanks. Yeah, well, so I guess a two-part question. First of all, tell us about, your interview with the new secretary of defense and what he had to say about this and or elaborate on what he has had to say about this since being sworn in or whether you're still in contact with him and whether these military officers are out of line when they contradict you and your guys at these state committee and other hearings that you guys are doing in the the state houses and senators of America here, as I saw them do. I showed up at a couple of these in South Dakota and I think Kansas a few weeks ago. And I saw these guys myself out there

seem to me like quite possibly they're insubordinate. So if you could please elaborate about that. And then also just spend the rest of the seven minutes we got here. If you could, telling us about the progress that you're making in the various states. I know you had a big victory just yesterday, was it, or the day before in Arizona? Arizona yesterday. Yeah. So on the Pete Heggs got angle, last January, while he was a news personality on Fox and Friends, I've been reminded of this by the generals over and over. Yes, I get it. He was a news personality. He talked about defend the guard after the New Hampshire House passed it. And he says, I love this idea. And he went into pretty at length details explaining why that it's constitutional,

the National Guard is being used inappropriately. And a very full-throated endorsement, of Defend the Guard. That's the last statement on record. But in December, after he'd been nominated, I met with him in West Palm at a private dinner meeting and had a chance to talk to him again and ask him about his support for a Defend the Guard again. And he reiterated, I love that bill. What can I do to help? And at the time, Pete was in danger of not being confirmed. And so we said, hey, let's circle back. Let's get you. There was my Jen Socky reference. Circle back. Let's get you confirmed. And then we'll work on a public statement. And I'm shooting myself in the foot because what has happened since that time is he is now the secretary defense and the layers of

protection between him and me are infinitely greater and so we're working every channel we can we can every time we start to make progress we get stonewall built by something he's out firing generals he's down on the border he's doing this he's doing that so we're working on it we're going to get it it's just a matter of time but what happened is some of our activists started using that as an anchor for their argument hey the secretary defense supports this and like Diego Rivera our field director says that's like giving him a cookie to a mouse you give them one they want more now that Pete has endorsed it and has had no additional anything set on the record from the last statement which means that that last statement is the record now they want a written letter

to them personally on his letterhead or they want you know an f-16 jet to fly overhead and leave controls that say yes i support defend the guard they want some grand display instead of using logic that the last thing he said is the most current thing on record so we love that we have an endorsement We love that we have a support, but we are not using that as the foundation for our argument because it just creates more want, more demands from the deep state from the swamp. So, yes, we love the Pete's there. We love the Tulsi Gabbar, Vivek, Romiswamy, RFK Jr., Joe Kent. All these high-level administration folks have endorsed Defend the Guard. But the most important endorsement of Defend the Guard is the members of the global warranty are the veterans that fought that want this bill and the founding fathers who wrote the Constitution.

So those are the endorsements I'm hanging my hat on. And I know that was kind of a cheesy response, but that's not at all a cheesy response. That's a very good one and an important one. And I think you and Diego's reasoning there is perfectly right because he could change his mind about that. And that wouldn't make you guys wrong one bit. And we wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand that. Exactly. And so then the progress, you already mentioned some of the wins we've had.

And we can talk about those if you like. But Scott, I'd rather, I want to talk about something with you if you don't mind. Do you mind if we talk about the lever, the, the, the big sledgehammer you've given me with provoked? Yeah, I mean, say what you want. Wait, first, list me some states and what's going on because I really want, I know there are a ton of anti-war vets in the audience of this show who probably are looking for something anti-war to do

and someone to join up with in that Ron Paulian spirit, somebody that they can believe in, somebody like you. So what a great parade for them to get at the front of or at the tail end of and help support here. So how do they do that? Yep. If you go to defend the guard.us, that's defend the guard, all one word, dot us, and click on your state on the map that pops up. Well, first thing we're going to ask you to do is tongue in cheek, enlist in our movement. There's a little banner you ask you to sign up and give us your email address and your name and what state you're from. When you do that, you become one of our, one of our army. But then click on your state and you can see what's happening in your state. For instance, in Nebraska right now, we have one of the first Democratic sponsors of the bill in the country this year. Her name is Megan Hunt. Very progressive lefty that believes with us the same on this issue. And you know, we've been apolitical from the start.

We want Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Green Party with everybody to come because this is an issue we all should agree on. And so she has a hearing for the first time in Nebraska this Wednesday, the 12th, and it's going to be an informational hearing that we do not have the gunpowder to fight the battle in Nebraska. So she's going in there bold in front of the committee to educate the committee, get the groundwork laid and build for next year. What we're trying to build now in Nebraska is an army of people on the ground.

So if you live in Nebraska, click the state, and there's a way for you to contact us. Every other state, you can click on it and see who's sponsoring your bill. You can give them support, but most importantly, if you go to DefendtheGuard.us forward slash phone bank

and you give us 10 minutes a week during legislative session, you will see in real time how your voice can flip votes in real time. We change votes daily using just a little bit of veteran power and will on phone banks. And we went from a, we were down eight votes on a committee and we started phone banking a week before and getting people to call.

And by the time the committee hearing was on, we'd already whipped the committee and we had a two-vote advantage. And we won in committee. We are applying grassroots pressure with the voice of veterans telling state representatives relentlessly that we don't want them to endorse the bill, that we demand it and we expect them to do their jobs. And when they don't, we practice what we preach. For instance, in Tennessee, one of our co-sponsors, Rick Eldridge,

Representative Rick Eldridge, sponsored our bill for two years, took advantage of all the benefits of being a sponsor of our bill that are in support, things like that. And then in committee, made the motion to kill the bill and send it to a summer study. That is a death sentence for a bill, our own co-sponsor. So what we did, we've already recruited his replacement. This happened less than a week ago. We've already recruited his replacement.

We have already started training the activists that are going to be helping on his campaign, and we are educating. That's my goal of my mission, is to educate his district on what he did. What a cowardly move he made, taking advantage of the benefit and the support of veterans, and then turning his back on them.

So he knows that he has the support of the veterans, but the veterans don't know the same. And so we're going to educate everybody. He's gone. Rick Eldridge is a dead man walking. He doesn't even know it figuratively. And then other states, Texas. You know, we were on the ballot in Texas,

and it passed with 83% support last March, outperforming even Donald Trump. The number of people that voted against it in Texas was almost identical to the number of people that voted for Nikki Haley, coincidentally enough. We've got a battle in Montana where it went to the floor, back to committee, back to the floor, back to committee. And in real time, we were able to flip one single vote and get it passed out of committee where before it had killed, it had died. We just had a great hearing in Oregon. We've got one in Idaho coming up. the Senate. So what we're getting at is over 30 states have opportunities to fight. And next year, we're going to try and be in all 50. But to do that, we need an army.

We need volunteers. And I need you to sign up at bring our troops home.us. And click on join us and join the remnant. The remnant is our group of supporters that chip in 5, 10, 15, 20 bucks a month and help us fight this fight. Because we're not a paid army. We don't have paid lobbyists. I do this all for free. It's my own volunteer hobby. I've got two paid staff members that, organized ground troops and won rights for us. The great libertarian writer, Hunter Dorensis is our communications director. And the great libertarian activist, Diego Rivera, is our ground operations. And that's what I would ask people to do. Two things. Find in your state where you can join the fight and then join the movement and chip in a couple bucks. Okay. Now you can tell me how

useful my book is for a minute. All right. What a great book. I mean, I'm sure you've, you've already had the praise. You see where you're out on the charts. But I took a entire backpack full of your copies of provoked, to the Capitol, to the Senate office buildings for the inauguration. And I wrote a letter from me, the chairman of veterans organization, Bring Our Troops Home, asking, demanding, and giving specific reasons why they should read the book, specifically the sections on Ukraine War, dating back to 2014 and even earlier, and understanding their history before they commit billions more dollars in possibly American lives to that mess over there.

And I went into every single senator that sits on the Senate relations, foreign relations committee, thinking that would be where the best lever of power was. And went in offices like Mike Lee and Jim Rish and ran Paul and delivered, of course, to warm receptions by most of the good people, mild to lukewarm receptions from people that are kind of squishes, outright hostile reactions from offices like your own Senator Jim Cornyn. And then I went to the Democrats too and received almost no attention whatsoever, just put it on the desk and get out of here. That was the reaction for most of them. But every office I went into, I told them this.

I go, this book is comprehensive history on Ukraine, dating back through Republican and Democratic presidents, administrations. Your senator is specifically referenced in this book, even if they weren't. And I would explain that their actions are specifically referenced in this book. You might want to know what's in here. And then gave him the letter, gave him the book. All of them did the same thing. Can we take a picture? Yeah, of course you'd take a picture.

And so I took pictures with them, the ones that were there, and then moved on. And then I didn't make it into all of the offices because Washington, D.C. was shut down for the inauguration. So the remaining members that I didn't get to, I went down to the UPS store and overnighted copies of the book with the letter in them. and then each one of them has gotten a follow-up letter for me asking if they've read the book and report back and let me know what's happening with their little history lesson. Guess how many responses I've got? I'm sure 100, right? Hundreds, hundreds of them, Scott.

Yes, minus hundreds. Well, it's a solid 100 guys, I'm sure. Yep. So anyway, after reading the book and just fully understanding for my own edification, what we did to cause the war in Ukraine, I don't know how anybody can read the plain language in your book. clear, referenced, sourced, cited, and think, by God, we should be dumping billions more dollars in here, unless their argument is, we cause this, we should fix it. I would actually entertain and listen to that argument.

But to keep the fight going, I'm not interested in even entertaining their discussion. Yeah, even on the former, I mean, that was part of the excuse for Iraq was, well, we help support Saddam Hussein. So now we got to, no, now you got to just stop. just stop but um well listen i mean i can't tell you first of all uh how much i appreciate uh what you say but especially what you do there that's that's really great to hear that you're you know not just giving them the book but following up and all of that stuff it's really good and thanks to hunter too for everything he's yeah hunter hunter's amazing uh i'm glad you're keeping them busy as well and giving him some extra stuff on the side because he's he is a talent

that if we don't use we're going to lose so keep that up yeah well he's our editor so So he better not be going anywhere. It would be doomed. Our ship would sink without him. Well, listen, I got to tell you, I so appreciate what you guys are doing. It's so important in its own right. But, of course, it also just sets such a great example for how anti-war activism can be done and how respectable you can make it and have succeeded in making it.

you know the whole maga movement is coming to where we were on foreign policy this whole time because we were right this whole time so it only makes sense so um there uh more and more we we have real non-interventionist uh sympathies on the right and um we need to build on them and i can't think of a better way so i appreciate all your efforts and for everybody listening who's interested by all means please just go to bring our troops home.us and defend the guard.us and sign up with the guys here and join this thing because you know i don't know man i've been doing this a very long time i always hear yeah but what can you really do hey this is something that you can do for real that is truly making a difference and as you know specific tasks like showing up to testify and support

at your local capital building and your state where this stuff is going on. So please get in contact. It's the great Dan McKnight, Diego Rivera, Hunter Durenc, and the rest of guys at bring our troops home.us. Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Scott. Appreciate it.

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