Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 5/20/25 Kyle Anzalone on the Ukraine and Iran talks and the Ongoing Slaughter in Gaza

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Scott is joined by Kyle Anzalone to go over the latest news related to American foreign policy. They start with the talks to end the war in Ukraine and the negotiations for a new Iran nuclear deal. They then look at the latest reports of what Israel is doing to Gaza.   Discussed on the show: “Trump denies rift with Netanyahu, says PM 'fought hard and bravely'” (The Cradle) “Israel’s mission of total urban destruction” (+972 Magazine) Kyle Anzalone is news editor of the Libertarian Institute, opinion editor of Antiwar.com, co-host of Conflicts of Interest and host of The Kyle Anzalone Show. Follow him on Twitter @KyleAnzalone_ This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Roberts Brokerage Incorporated; Moon Does Artisan Coffee; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show. I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of anti-war.com, and author of Provote, how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine. Sign up for the podcast feed at Scotthorton.org or Scott Horton Show.com. I've got more than 6,000 interviews in the archive. for you there going back to 2003 and follow me on all the video sites and x at scott horton show okay guys on the line i've got good old kyle an zelone he is our news editor at the institute libertarian institute dot org and he is our opinion editor at antiwar dot com that's antiwar

com also he has two great podcasts one of them is called conflicts of interest and the other is called the kyle anzalone show and they're both really great welcome back to the show how you doing doing great scy thanks for having me back on absolutely happy to have you here so there's like some sort of kind of bright side stuff in terms of international diplomacy negotiation type things going on um at least it's not all negative news uh don't think i don't know maybe I'm wrong. Can we start with Ukraine and what's the news with people talking on the telephone and agreements to talk on telephones further? Yeah, you know, and Scott just kind of falling off of your comments there. I think what it is is there's reason, at least there, there's some news

to be optimistic about where the Biden administration was just ideologically opposed to diplomacy at all, but particularly with Russia, to now have the Trump administration at times floating the potential of and making a priority ending the war in Ukraine certainly seems like a step in the right direction. And so this led Trump to having two calls yesterday, well, multiple calls, but two major calls yesterday. And the first, the most important being with Vladimir Putin. And he said after that call that they had agreed to a number of steps. And it all sounded kind of vague. And it did seem that the Russian side had put in order a priority ending the war and having an agreement to end the war ahead of a siege.

fire, but movement towards the sea's fire and taunts with Ukraine about ending the war, including floating the idea of having the Vatican host tots between Trump, Putin and Zelensky, which I think could be, you know, something major and could lead to some breakthroughs, although there are still major divides between the two sides. Well, tell me about that. Well, I think territory is the biggest one, Scott, where Russia is saying that we have annets these four Ukrainian territories plus the Crimean Peninsula. And part of ending this war is going to be the recognition of those territories as Russia. I think, you know, the Russians see this as important

for a few reasons, including the Western sanctions on Russia, a lot of those originating from the annexation of Crimea. And so that, you know, removing those sanctions and recognizing this territory as Russian is a part of what Russia wants to end this conflict. On the Ukrainian side, they're saying they're not willing to cede any territory at all. And if that's the case, then, you know, we're very far apart here. Now, Russia only controls, I would say, two-thirds, a half to two-thirds of the territory that they vannets. And this includes, you know, the Dombast and then two southern oblasts of Ukraine. So, you know, Russia is asking for a lot more than they actually control on the battlefield. But the problem for the Ukrainians is on the battlefield. The

Russians are winning. Their movements, they may be taking territory very slowly and maybe, you know, I don't know what cost is coming as far as money and how many young men they're losing. Trump keeps citing this number of 5,000 Ukrainians and Russians dying a day. I have no idea if that's true or what the proportions would. I think he said per week, right? Per week, per week, yeah. But what the, you know, how that would break down between the two sides every day. So I'm sure this is coming at a pretty large cost for Russia to take this territory. and the Russian side after the Istanbul said, you know, if Ukraine won't accept the deal now, then we're going to ask for more later.

Right. Now, so let's talk a little bit about the casualties because I guess my position has been that we just don't know that both sides play up the other side's casualties and play down their own. And that it seems like the Russians, since they're in most cases on the offensive, typically that means that they got to lose more guys because they're the ones getting out of their trench and moving forward exposing themselves in ways that defenders don't have to on the other hand the Russians are dropping a hell of a lot more bombs from the air

and they are firing far more artillery shells and have been this whole time and you know obviously have the Ukrainians completely outgunned and so I don't know and then I just tend toward when we're talking about actual combat deaths not just excess deaths in the country due to deprivation or whatever but actual combat deaths which is almost all of them here because the civilians have been able to flee in most cases i mean there are still thousands of dead civilians but not tens of thousands i don't think um but the uh i tend to just go with when we're talking about direct combat deaths i tend to uh go with the most conservative kind of estimates around but i don't even

really know what they are anymore i just know kind of what sounds high to me and uh but uh but i don't claim to be the definitive expert on that or anything but um i know people who kind of choose sides on this definitely had their opinions set but i wonder what you think about all that i really haven't been able to put anything together scott i think trump at the beginning of his administration said there were a million dead in the war but i don't think he's repeated that number very often. So I have no idea if that's true or not, if that's a number that Trump made up or even where he might have heard that from. I know like both sides kind of claim their number of debt is in the tens of thousands. And the opposition number of debt is in the hundreds of thousands.

But, you know, obviously you're not going to believe Kiev here because they're putting out war propaganda to their own population. And the same with Moscow, right? You want to make it look like your side is winning. Now, you know, even though the Russians are on the offensive, Scott, I think it's pretty clear that their goal is to wear down and maybe eventually cause the collapse of the Ukrainian military versus actually taking territory, which may be one difference in the explanation for why Russia isn't losing as many men as a typical army or, let's say, what the Ukrainian army lost when they were trying to conduct their offensive in the summer of, what was that, 2023. Yeah, that's a good thing. So, you know, if the Russian goal is to more wear down the Ukrainian

military and they seem to be relying on a lot of bombs, you know, they're using essentially a Russian version of the J-DAM now converting older bombs into guided munitions. They got a lot of artillery. Obviously, drone warfare has become a big thing on each side of this conflict. And the Russians are just digging in and softening up the Ukrainians until they could barely safely take territory. obviously this is warfare. Nothing is safe. The Russians are taking losses. And look, Ukrainian drones are getting through and hitting Russia and cities all the time. You know, this is happening. It seems maybe a little bit less over the past couple of weeks, but they were almost daily drone attacks deep inside Russian territory for a time near the end of the Biden administration, even at the beginning

of the Trump administration. So Russia is losing a lot here. But it does seem like their goal is to go slow enough. I think Michael Vallejos has put out some pretty good estimates on this, although I don't remember what they are on the top of my head. But I thought his reasoning and how he totaled them up sounded pretty reasonable. We ran that article at anti-war dot com a couple weeks ago. Okay. Now he wrote that for us or that was at tack or what? I believe he wrote it for the realist review. He's writing with James Cardin. Oh, okay. Great. There. Yeah. Okay. That sounds good. I'll definitely take a look at that. And now as far as the drone thing, And they says, well, you know, these are domestically, you know, supply drones.

And Ukraine has developed this advanced drone industry. And then later they admitted that, oh, yeah, no, the CIA built it for them. So that's, again, Americans, you know, we, it's been a little while since we discussed how absolutely ridiculously dangerous this war is that America is helping Ukraine kill Russians inside Russia. In some cases, civilians, you know, operating at, you know, whatever infrastructure targets that they're hitting. trains and fuel depots and whatever factories and the rest. So it's, uh, it's, it's highly important that that Trump is working this hard to bring it to an end. I sure appreciate that part of it. But now so, well, Scott, can I just comment on that real quick? Because, you know, this week, there's a lot of talk, the main talk in like the corporate media is about Biden's

health and, you know, his mental fitness when he was in the White House. And we have, several reports now of, you know, not just Biden saying we were the closest to nuclear war between the U.S. and Russia since the Cuban missile crisis, but also estimates that the U.S. intelligence community thought there's a 50% chance that Russia could nuke Ukraine. And now, you know, it's coming out and becoming very clear that Biden was not mentally, and everybody who was watching knew it. But now that the corporate press is admitting it, I think they, you know, we need to bring up and really demand answers that you were not only having somebody who was mentally feeble as president,

but also walking up to nuclear red lines with Russia as he was doing it. And who exactly, you know, was holding on to the nuclear football? If Biden woke up in the middle of the night and decided he wanted to nuke somebody because he was scared, I mean, could somebody stop him? Like, these are real questions that nobody was asking. Yeah, I mean, maybe the National Security Advisor could just wrestle into the ground, you know, take the phone away from him or something. something, but certainly no one would have the authority to stop him.

The whole system is designed to go at the word of the president. Otherwise, it's not a sufficient deterrent if it's not that easy to use. See? So. Right. And can you imagine a weaker national security advisor to stop the president from doing so? Even physically, but, you know, would Jade Sullivan just step in line and follow orders? He seems like the kind of guy that would. Yeah, who knows?

um yeah especially if it's a crisis he created you know can't admit that um so the other thing is that you mention that's important here is the russian strategy and you know i'm no military strategist but i talk with danny davis a lot and he sure says what you say that clearly what they're trying to do is just grind the ukrainian military down one day they'll break it then they'll be able to walk around where they want or that's been their plan or their tactics and a method of reserving forces and not just wasting their men. However, that means that as time goes on, back to what you were saying earlier in the show, they haven't consolidated their control over this territory, and they haven't broken the Ukrainian

military yet. And now they have Donald Trump from the United States of America's gotten elected and come into power and is trying to get them to stop the war before they've accomplished what they've set out to accomplish, which means that, as you put it, there's this huge gap, including literally on the ground between what Russia demands and what they've got and what they would have to require of the Ukrainians. We're going to need you guys to withdraw a few hundred miles here, here, here, here, and here. Give us, you know, all of Curzon on the other side of the river too.

Give us all of Zuproja, even though we only control two-thirds of it now. Bachmout, I mean, pardon me, the Dombas, Donetsk, you know, what, three-quarters or something like that. I think they control virtually all of Lujansk, but still, they only control, you know, maybe half a Kurson and two-thirds of Zeprosia. So then the Ukrainians are supposed to withdraw from that territory and then recognize it on its old, you know, internal borders there as all Russian territory now. Yes, sir, and tip their hat. You know, I don't think so. This is, I mean, if it comes down to just fighting

a guerrilla insurgency, I'm sure they'll do that, but I don't think they're going to give into those terms. So I think this is, I mean, if if peace breaks out, it's a miracle and I'll praise him. And Donald Trump, you know, America is pretty powerful and he does have some wait to throw around here, but it just seems impossible to get the Russians to back down from their goals, considering the momentum that they have now. Well, you know, Scott, I do think there are proposals that could be put forward. And the U.S. does have a lot of leverage here, right? Everybody who says that we want to negotiate with Ukraine is, or with Russia, is accused of wanting to abandon Ukraine. But if you listen to people who, you know, advocate for ending the

war in Ukraine. They also advocate for things like not carrying out war games on Russia's borders, right? You know, well, if we agree to robat some of our troop presence in the Baltic states, you know, ending NATO expansion, taking the Aegis of shore systems out of Poland and Romania, agreeing to stop meddling in Georgia, there's a lot that the U.S. could promise Russia that I think could make Putin's goals in Ukraine a little bit less ambitious. I mean, I'm sure from Putin's perspective, leaving a larger Russian population in Ukraine might not be the worst thing if they could raid the elections just a little bit with more Russians there or something like that. So there may be arguments that you can make to Putin and things that the U.S.

could give Russia, returning to the INF or the anti-ballistic missile treaty, agreeing to extend the New START treaty, that the U.S. could promise Russia that may lessen their maximalist demands that they have in Ukraine right now. Yeah. Hey, that'd be a good surprise for the New York Times. Donald Trump signs start two. He says he doesn't care that Bill Clinton threw it out years ago. We're going to go ahead and go the extra mile here.

Now, as far as leaving enough Russians in Ukraine to make a difference, I mean, that ship has sailed, I think. That's the whole thing here. That's, you know, people say, uh, well, I know, whatever. they say lots of things i think it made a lot of sense for the russians to leave the donbass and all of south and eastern ukraine uh inside ukraine because their guys typically won or at least people you know from the east that's where the majority of the population is from is the east of the country and you know predominantly russian culture if not ethnicity and so that was why america had to rig the elections over and over again. So, or worse, right? But a lot of Ukrainians have

left the country who would vote for the other side of that election too. And, you know, like I said, there would probably be some rigging involved here. But what if Moscow demanded a new part of the Ukrainian constitution was you had to be present in Ukraine or maybe even in the former regions controlled by Russia to vote? You know, there's certainly ways where he could rid this up that he could get a Russian-friendly government in Kiev and leave Russians behind it and use those numbers. Yeah. I mean, he certainly has redrawn the border in a way to remove the bulk of them already. But I see what you mean. Like in Lebanon, they have a deal where, and I'm going to get this wrong, it's just an example, but like the president has to be a Christian

and the House Speaker has to be Shiite and the Senate Majority Leader has to be assumed. and whatever like that you know yeah that's the constitution we wrote for iraq yeah um yeah no you make a lot of good points and you list a lot of american transgressions that could simply be rolled back i talk about in the book how when Putin said listen i demand that you guys respect your promises of 1997 to not move military equipment into the new nato countries and they all scoffed. Like, this was the craziest thing they'd ever heard. 1997.

Why, that's back in the 20th century. Like, it's the 17th century or something. When Bill Clinton's right there, you could ask him about it. But as he said, yeah, and that's the deal until we wake up

one morning and decide to change our mind. He's quoted by his friend saying that. Michael McFall is the one quoted him saying that. so you know mocking the russians for believing him basically but yeah we could just go by the go by the earlier promises and and maybe one last point on this guy and i i think there is like i have an end date on this kind of deal especially because there's 200 to 300 billion in russian assets that's frozen in western accounts and western governments are increasingly starting to take those assets, sometimes in response to Russia's seizing Western assets that were

left behind in Russia, and then also to give money to Ukraine. And so if they start to go too deeply into those funds, you know, Russia getting that money back is likely going to be a condition to ending this war. And so the more Europe tates that money, the harder it's going to be to end the war. Yeah. Well, yeah, so... Can you talk a little bit more about catch me up on England and France and Germany and Poland, for that matter, and their recent stances on all this? Yeah, as far as I could tell, the Europeans still largely seem to be on board, although they've rolled out ideas like these major $800 billion spending,

military spending for the entire continent, reducing and removing caps that countries could have on their debt to GDP ratio in order to hit their defense spending goals. And some of this weaponry is going to go to preparing for a European war with Russia. Some of that money is going to be weapons that are sent to Ukraine. But if you look at the numbers and they can't even commit to this, it's still not enough compared to what the Biden administration was throwing at Ukraine. And so I do think, you know, we're coming to a point here maybe in the next year, Scott, where there's going to have to be a real decision by Western.

government, how much are they willing to give Ukraine and how far in debt are they willing to go to continue to support this war? I mean, we've already seen it's at times reduced American weapon stockpiles to their red line levels. I think they've ramped up some production, but they're still not giving Ukraine everything they need. There's no chance that Ukraine is going to turn around and go on an offensive here. And of course, the Ukrainians are eventually going to be short of men. But, you know, that side, just how much can the West support Ukraine does seem to be limited. And eventually they're going to have to deal with that reality.

And I think that time is coming soon. Yeah. All right. So Israel, Palestine. No, no, no. Other sort of kind of good news. Talks with Iran. Tell me some good stuff there.

Well, Scott, the good news is that the tots are still going on. And this is something that Ted Snyder has pointed out. And he's one of our really good writers at both the Institute and Ant, anti-war.com. And he's pointed this out in a couple of recent articles that publicly, the Trump administration is saying that Iran has to completely give up its nuclear enrichment program. And Iran has said several times that that's a red line. And yet the Iranians keep going back to the table and keep engaging in talks with the U.S. And so Ted's saying the good news is, is maybe the messaging that we're getting publicly, because certainly even publicly, we've heard from

some administration officials who have said that they're willing to let Iran and and basically go back to the 2015 JCPOA. They haven't said that, but, you know, those parameters where Iran would have a very strictly inspected nuclear program and be able to enrich uranium to a low level. But also publicly, the Trump administration is saying that they're not going to be able to have a nuclear enrichment program at all, but that Iran is saying that the tots are sometimes a step in the right direction. Seems to me that they can't be saying that behind closed doors.

And so who are they lying to the public or the Iranians? is the question. Yeah. Hopefully the public. Right. Well, there would be reason to just because of how anti-Iran the U.S. Congress is. Trump could certainly not want to give, you know, Congress time to start passing resolutions and bills that would undermine, you know, because they could refuse to say that you can't

live sanctions if Iran has a nuclear enrichment program or something like that and kill any deal Trump would make. So it could be kind of political tactics here that is going for, although I'm not sure that Trump is that competent to pull something like that off. Yeah, I'll tell you what, I mean, he would already, if he wants to deal with the Ayatollah, he's going to have to give in on some enrichment. You know, they talked about this international consortium deal. Maybe that'll be a good enough compromise to get them, you know, working with the other nearby countries on it or something. but thiatola is just going to not give in on that i can't imagine what kind of threats combined with promises it would take to get him to give up on enrichment there's just no way and then so

if trump is going to make a deal with him on that basis then he's going to have a huge fight on his hands no different than Obama did in 15 and especially when it comes to tom cotton and lindsay graham and them he's going to have to raise his voice and shout them down like in the meanest kind of way if he's going to get his way to get a deal through. I don't know. Public opinion might be with it, but Congress is operated out of Tel Aviv. Right. And I think that's the big point. You know, as much as I'm skeptical that Netanyahu actually wants to go to war or even the U.S. to go to war with Iran, I certainly don't think he wants the U.S. to make it a deal with Iran because that is a big part of the Israeli propaganda as to why the U.S. just needs to give Israel

unlimited amount of weaponry and remain engaged in the Middle East, even though we've had president after president run on getting America out of the Middle East and ending these wars. We always get stuck there because we can't leave because we have to protect Israel because the Iranians are going to get a nuclear weapon and kill them all. Yeah. Hey, y'all, if you run a business or a side hustle and want to keep more of your money out of the IRS's hands, Matthew Sersely, the Agarist Tax Advisor is your guy. He'll help you set up your business the right way, find every legal deduction, and keep the feds off your back, without you ever

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writer of poor things comes the roses starring academy award winner olivia coleman academy award nominee benedic cumberbatch andy sandberg kate mckenon and alison janny a hilarious new comedy filled with drama excitement and a little bit of hatred proving that marriage isn't always a bed of roses see the roses only in theaters august 29th get tickets now Right. Well, I don't know. I was looking at this thing. This guy, Omer Bartov, was saying that the Israelis' killing of the Palestinians is genocide. And I thought, hey, don't I know that name? And also, who the hell is this guy to say that? And then I remembered that. Oh, yeah, Omer Bartov. I read him because he's the Holocaust scholar, who I read a bunch of stuff by him about what happened in Ukraine during World War II when I was researching for my book provoked. Oh yeah, Omar Bartov, the Israeli-born Holocaust scholar, compares what's happening in the Gaza Strip right now at the hands of the Lakut government of Benjamin

and Yahoo, the Israeli government, to, I don't know, I guess his direct comparisons to Nazi Germany but still he's calling it a genocide so there's one good authoritative voice on that i read a thing the other day where they had all of these genocide scholars i don't know exactly what it takes to be one but from all around the world saying well yeah and i'm not sure if they're just reading the statements of the israeli finance minister on a daily basis the way you are and the way i am or what exactly their basis is they're seeing all the killing but it's the intent and there's so many of these blatant statements almost unbelievable that they continue to talk this way about their intent to eradicate the people the Palestinian people of the Gaza Strip so I was just wondering if

you know I don't know man people getting bored of this it's kind of out of the news cycle but the ceasefire is long over there's a full scale scale, you know, re-invasion going on right now. And so can you please just catch us all up on the worst thing the United States of America is doing right now, please. Yeah, I mean, the situation there, Scott, is absolutely horrific. And Israel has ramped up their operations. They have a new military operation called Gideon's Chariots. And Netanyahu has said they're going to destroy Gaza and make it unlivable, and he thinks already that 50% of the Palestinian population of Gaza is so desperate that they're willing to leave. Now, just from statements from Palestinians,

that doesn't seem true. However, I feel like I have seen, and this is just kind of my anecdotal experience from looking through my ads feed, more Palestinians basically saying, like, you can't do it anymore, right? Like the children are starving to death. aid hasn't entered Gaza since March, I believe, third, and during that period, now they have said they're going to allow a basic amount of aid in, and I think they allowed five trucks in. And so that's a population of, you know, two million, maybe a little less Palestinians in Gaza at this point who are supposed to eat from five truckloads, right? And I've been enough to stock your local Walmart. So obviously, the amount of aid that they're sending in is insufficient. And the Israelis have been pretty explicit that one, their plans is to allow this aid into these areas where they're going to have an American security contract or checking everyone as they come in. They're going to be sectioning off the males from the rest of the people that way. And then they're going to feed the women and the children, but they're going to do it in an area where they could be easily driven out of Gaza. Now, where they're going to go, I think, is the last remaining issue that's preventing this genocide from just.

being carried out. And over the course of the Trump administration, we've had several reports now that Tel Aviv and Washington have approached Syria, Somalia, Puntland, Somaliland, Sudan, and Libya about taking in the Palestinians. Now, all these countries seem to have something in common. Scott, they're countries in the midst of either civil wars or autonomous regions or countries that are really looking for international recognition. And so I think Washington, has a lot to offer these countries, especially if they're able to pit maybe opposing forces against each other, like in Libya. If they offer the Tripoli or the Benghazi side, intelligence and some military support, that could easily be enough to tip the ongoing civil war there and help one side

or the other emerge as victors. Same thing in Sudan, you know, international recognition for Puntland or Somaliland would be absolutely huge. So the Trump administration has a lot of carrots to throw out for these different governments or regions to take in the Palestinians. And of course, if you get four or five sits of them on board and it turns out that the population on Gaza is already diminished to, you know, 1.8. Trump at the beginning of this administration, I'm saying like 1.8 million, then you're talking about 300,000 or so people for each of these countries to take in. There could be a lot of money and incentives thrown their way to do it. Yeah. So this is how it's been this whole time. I mean, this is how the knock by happened too. They just killed a bunch of

people. And then they said, hey, look, a land without people for people without land. Because we just killed them. And that's what they're doing here. And it's amazing to hear them say, I don't know why it's amazing. It kind of is. To hear Bezalus Motritch say, yeah, what we're going to do is, we're going to concentrate them all down there in the south of the country near the border in these couple of regions. We need their populations to be concentrated together. He says, I don't know.

Just, it's funny. I don't know. Maybe it's just funny for how few people notice in such a four and five G world of eight billion people that like, wait, did you just say concentration camp? I think he just said, we're going to put them in a concentration camp. They're already in a concentration camp.

This is more like a death camp, but, you know. Anyway, yeah, and so Donald Trump's stance so far is, oh, yeah, no, go right ahead, right? I read the other day there's been no pressure to deal. Right. There's been some reports that Trump is upset with Netanyahu, and, you know, the best evidence of this is that Trump didn't go to Israel during his trip around the Middle East, and J.D. Vance was supposed to go to Israel and cancel that trip. And so who knows if there's maybe like a personal issue between Trump and Netta and Yahoo at this point? Trump apparently didn't want Netton Yahoo to move forward

with the military invasion. And I think the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza, the children starving to death at least 50 or so of them since March 2nd at this point, those are just the documented ones, you know, all these images of these kids that are, you know, just nothing on their bones. It's absolutely horrific to look at. Probably put something of a, you know, cast a real shadow over his first foreign trip to the Middle East and that was supposed to be a big deal. And so he could be a little bit upset with Nanyahu, but the Trump administration has made clear there's no divides between Washington and Tel Aviv. And it's just maybe a matter of personality and not policy.

Yeah, I mean, I saw that article on anti-war.com or Trump denies there's any beef here. Well, I take him on his word at that. Orton's law, you know, they mean what they say when it's something horrible. Right. And, you know, it seems like it would be very Trumpy and tatted Scott that if Trump really was trying to move or pushing it in Yahoo to say, oh, you know, Israel love Israel, love the Israeli people, Netanyahu, he's a tough guy right now, you know, got to deal with that tough guy. He would have said something to indicate that, yeah, I'm not exactly happy with Netanyahu.

That's how Trump operates. Right. Yeah. And there was no indication of that at all. Although, you know, it did seem substantive that he made a deal with the Houthis that didn't include the Israelis, you know. Yeah. That was interesting. although they may have just had an agreement about that you know who knows there's no reason to think

that that was really over net you know who's dead body or anything just hey you're going to have to handle this i've given as much as i'm going to that was the deal doesn't mean that they had a fight about it necessarily you know right and from the american side it could have been at least in part about logistics could they get enough aircraft and bombs and bombers and things over to keep up at the pace that they were bombing Yemen. I think the Yemenis claim it was closer to 2000, but the Americans say it was about a thousand airstriads over the course of six or eight weeds. So that's a massive bombing campaign that they were attempting to carry out there. Also having to dodge and try to shoot down the Houthi missile and drones, it had to be incredibly

expensive. And again, I'm sure logistically difficult to have that many military assets, that many bombs in a region when, of course, we're doing everything to build. up in the Indo-Pacific, Europe, and helping Israel in the Middle East. Yeah. Man, so I forgot which picture it was. It was one of the stories on Antowar.com yesterday, that the picture of all the children and, well, everybody else, too, with their plate, you know, begging for a little bit of food at the thing and just a mob crush.

And this poor little girl, I think, in the picture has just gotten a little bit and it's trying to get the hell out of there. and they're not fighting over it right nobody's like stealing each other's food or anything like that it's not that chaotic but it's it's otherwise it's a chaotic mob to get their plate to the front people are absolutely starving their children are starving

and they're trying to get that food back to somebody else behind them you know and just a look of absolute misery and terror on this little girl's face she's what 10 or 11 years old or something this picture and you know this isn't really emphasizing enough that this is America's war just as much as it's Israel's war.

You know, Joe Biden and Donald Trump are pure partners with the prime minister in this. There's just no question about that. They get all their weapons from us. They're flying American planes, dropping American bombs, using American intelligence and support in unknowable ways, tens of billions of dollars in extra aid to help pay for it all. I mean, what can he say? And yet, what American interests

has served in this whatsoever? What are the people of Gaza ever do to us? Nothing. And what are we going to get out of this other than terrorist attacks? You know, somebody says, oh, well, they're going to end up stealing all that natural gas, but they can steal that natural gas anyway.

I have to murder all these people. They've already been conquered. They don't have any rights anyway. They're not even allowed to fish more than three miles off their own damn coast. Right. Were they going to develop those natural gas fields or stopped the Israelis from doing it when they can't even go fishing without the Israelis permission?

I mean, that was just absurd. And, you know, another part of the American presence, Scott, we talk a lot about the bombs and the bombers is the D9 bulldozers, too, where they are just flattening Gaza. There's a really, I mean, it's horrific, but really good reporting in 972 magazine about how they are just day after day after day sometimes with robotic sometimes with manned d9 bulldozers there's just thousands and thousands of homes one of the soldiers said you could look over where rafa was and it's just flat land now they're just going through every single house just tearing everything to ground bringing it to the ground uh they took a corridor the nazarian corridor they cut it across

the gaza strip everything about two kilometers wide just got absolutely flat and by the Israelis. And this is making it absolutely unlivable. There will be nowhere for these people to return to. And of course, you know, there's no, they're not going to allow in concrete, rebar, steel, you know, all the pipes, the copper, the wiring that you would need to rebuild these structures. And so even if the Palestinians try to hold out and stay, Scott, they're going to be in their tents. And another point to how much this is in American war, I saw a report, not that long ago from a U.S. mainstream outlet, where they're just documenting the prevalence of the casings from bombs and other U.S. weaponries that now litter Gaza, it's to the point where they

actually will use some of these casings because it's the only thing metal or strong plastic that they could use to prop up their tents left in Gaza. And so I'm sure they're reminded every single minute of every single day that these whores are brought to them. Yeah, sure, from the Israelis. with American weaponry. Yeah, I found that it's our own Rappaport, who I'm familiar with him from doing previous good journalism, render it unusable Israel's mission

of total urban destruction at 972 mag.com from just the other day, May 15th. Did we run this as a spotlight? Or we're going to... Oh, it's the spotlight today. There we go. Yes. Of course.

Oh, man. you know nobody ever says this and i didn't get a chance i was on the pierce morgan show yesterday and i didn't have a chance to uh i tried to just squeeze it in at the end but all of this not to be selfish about it but to try to appeal to other people's selfishness all of this is a security risk to the united states of america ron paul is absolutely right we can't just go around the world doing these things to people and think that there's not going to be repercussions our government is putting our people in peril, as he put it. And that's exactly right. And it doesn't mean that any one person listening to this is in any significant, you know, percentage increase of

danger to their own life. But is this country in greater danger of being attacked? Yes. And you know what? I'm so busy on so many projects, Kyle. Keep your eye out for this for me if you would. And listeners, too, if you can. Who knows what the guy said? while he was driving to New Orleans to do the New Year's attack is a former army soldier convert to Islam not even

a Tajik who snuck across the border an American veteran convert who then goes to New Orleans and ran down and killed how many people called do you remember? I don't even know I'm such a terrible person I don't even know how many people died in that thing

he killed a bunch of people man more than 12 I think it was and then and it's only luck see that the way it happened was he crashed and there just happened to be like six cops standing right where he crashed into i think a bulldozer or something some some heavy equipment and so he opened the door of his truck with a gun in his hand and they just blew him away which good but i'm just saying that was only happenstance he could have driven past them by another little bit or he could have stopped a quarter mile before and killed far more people he could have had two or three friends with him and we'd still be talking about this thing every day all the people they killed that day and you know especially they knew what they were doing covering their flanks and this and that tactics and whatever and yet as far as i know they haven't released those videos or even talked

about what's in those videos other than he made all these ranting videos about his motive on the way there details please i guarantee you it's about gaza i could be wrong i admit i'm just speculating that but i'm just saying come on you know that's what drove this guy mad and then what happened he killed a bunch of people having fun on new year's eve on bourbon street man that's the price we have to pay for israel sins and i'm only 99.9% sure i'm right about that but we'll see right Well, Scott, you know, to commit a genocide in Gaza is unbelievable, but to do it at the same time as you embrace the jihadist government of Syria is just the stupidest policy that Washington has ever moved forward with, that Trump is calling Jolani the leader of al-Qaeda in Syria, an attractive guy, a tough fighter with a tough past. I mean, this is absolutely absurd. I'm not for sanctions on any. country, but the idea that we would embrace the Syrian government in this way after, you know,

decades of rejection of the Assad government is so stupid. And while doing it, while fueling the genocide in Gaza is bound to increase the amount of blowbat the Americans are going to face for these policies. Yeah. You know, you almost want to give him a George W. Bush excuse, right? that he just must be too ignorant to know that this guy killed Americans in Mosul and Ramadi and brags about it. Well, wasn't this the point of Tulsi Gabbard being in the administration where at least she was going to know who the terrorist war, who the jihadist war and who the real enemies of the American people were?

You know, I didn't expect her to, you know, may not advocate for war against the Houthis or something like that, but at least to not support and actively embrace the actual terrorist. That's insane. Yeah. I don't know. She must have, she must have done a briefing where she explained who this guy is. I mean, I got to admit, they're in a terrible position. I mean, as you just said, you don't want sanctions.

I don't want sanctions on them. I sure as hell don't want a war against them. but it is a bin Ladenite state and if they really toned down the bin Ladeniteism then there's going to be another revolution you know so I mean and they're surrounded by friends

they got the Turks and the Israelis who like them their only enemy is Hezbollah in their west and they're no threat not right now they're not not without Iran and the Syrian Arab army which no longer exists as their allies and so what are you going to do with al-Qaeda in Syria if you're Donald Trump and Joe Biden stuck you with this before you're inaugurated he ain't going to kiss the guy's ass to talk about how handsome

he is right but he could have but and I don't think we need to normalize relations with them you know I couldn't bear to if it was me um and in fact if it wasn't me but if I was Trump I would say to Erdogan. I don't like this guy. Get me a guy in there who's less worse than him. Not worse, worse. Less worse. You know, this is crazy. This guy swore his loyalty to Iman al-Zawahri and Osama bin Laden

and Abu Musab al-Zarkawi at the height of Iraq War II. How could anything mitigate that? There's nothing that mitigates that. Right? It's astounding, Scott, and again, just maybe the dumbest policy I've ever seen Washington move forward with. And look, this is bipartisan. The Biden administration would have done.

If Harris had won the election, I guarantee you the same thing would have happened. Now, he'd be sitting in the Oval Office having a nice meeting there. Man, that's maybe dissatisfied with our foreign policy, really is what I am. I have to say. I don't know. I feel like there's something left unsaid about Gaza right now. I mean, there's whatever. It's just such a horror show.

And as far as I can tell, I don't see an end in sight here. As you said, they're just launching this whole new thing. Trump doesn't seem to give a damn. And so what's going to break? than just Palestinian bodies. They're just going to keep bomb intense. They're going to finish this thing and nobody's going to stop them. Yeah.

You know, there's one more interesting detail in that 972 article that we are talking about earlier, Scott, that's running as the spotlight at anti-war.com. And that is Israel has, you know, at the first couple weeks of the campaign, they were bombing at very high pace. But that has slowed down a little bit. And part of it is Israel has apparently found it cheaper to pack old armor personnel carriers in particular, but other old military vehicles full of explosives and put them under remote control and then drive them to the target that they want to blow up. Are you kidding?

I guess most of the time these are abandoned structures or at least structures where the Israelis told the Palestinians to leave first, but they are doing this. the IDF is using V-bids whatever Vehicle-born IEDs Yes All right well That's Kyle Lanzalone everybody

That's why we keep them around News Editor at the Libertarian Institute Libertarian Institute.org An opinion editor at anti-war.com And you got to subscribe to his great YouTube and podcast shows and it's on X and all the different distribution platforms for you there,

the Kyle Anzalone Show and conflicts of interest. Thanks, man. Thanks, Scott. Thanks for listening to Scott Horton Show, which can be heard on APS Radio News at Scott Horton.org, Scott Horton Show.com, and the Libertarian Institute at libertarian institute.org.