Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 5/9/22 Misty Winston on the Effort to Pardon Leonard Peltier

Episode Date: May 10, 2022

Scott is joined by activist and podcast host Misty Winston to discuss the case of Leonard Peltier, an American Indian Movement member who was charged with killing two FBI agents in 1975. Supporters of Peltier argue that he was charged without sufficient proof and has thus been illegally held in a maximum-security prison for almost 47 years. Winston gives some background on Peltier’s case, the political and historical context that he was charged under and finally the effort to get him a presidential pardon— or at least a new trial. Winston directs the audience to some resources to learn more and also explains this week’s campaign to fill up the White House’s comment phone line with calls to pardon Leonard Peltier.  Discussed on the show: www.whoisleonardpeltier.info  Leonard: Political Prisoner Podcast Leonard: Political Prisoner Twitter Contact the White House (202-456-1111) Misty Winston is co-host of Facts on the Ground and Action 4 Assange. She also hosts her own show The Misty Winston Show. Follow her on Twitter @SarcasmStardust This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State and Why The Vietnam War?, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; EasyShip; Free Range Feeder; Thc Hemp Spot; Green Mill Supercritical; Bug-A-Salt and Listen and Think Audio. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show. I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of antire war.com, author of the book, Fool's Aaron, time to end the war in Afghanistan, and the brand new, enough already, time to end the war on terrorism. And I've recorded more than 5,500 interviews since 2000. almost all on foreign policy and all available for you at scothorton.4 you can sign up the podcast feed there and the full interview archive is also available at youtube.com slash scott horton's show all right you guys on the line i've got misty winston and i've been on her show a few times it's on tn t radio the misty winston show and we're twitter buds and she brought up a subject to

me in the DMs there the other day that I have neglected for a very long time. Covered this back in the 1990s on Say It Ain't So, actually, I think. My old friend, AJ, this was a big topic of his, and that is the freeing of Leonard Peltier. It's almost like a cliche, but no, it's a real man sitting in a cage. And I forgot everything I know about this case now. So I'm very happy to have you back on the show to talk about. Leonard in his case and what anybody is doing about it right now. Hi, Misty. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing great. Really appreciate you joining us here. So,

who's Leonard Peltier? So Leonard Peltier is, he, like, uses the word Indian, so I'll use that word as well. I know that that can be controversial. Some people get, you know, very up in, you know, up in arms about different terminology. But he is an Indian who, in 1976, was a arrested for the killing of two FBI agents. There was a shootout at Pine Ridge Ranch. So it's a really long and complicated. There's a lot of history and nuance and, you know, context and everything that people really need to be aware of. But the short story is that he was at Pine Ridge Ranch when two FBI agents followed a truck onto the property. You know, for whatever reason, we don't really know the whole story. We likely will never know

the real story. There ended up being a shootout. Two FBI agents were killed as well as a fellow Indian, a member of AIM, which is the American Indian movement, kind of an advocacy group. And so, you know, Leonard was kind of held as the scapegoat. You know, there was a lot of really shoddy investigative work. There is a lot of really, I mean, questionable evidence that was used against him. And so now he has been in prison for one, or I'm sorry, 16,894 days, 10 hours, 18 minutes and two seconds. As of right now, there's a, there's a counting clock on the who is Leonard Peltier. Info website, which is a great website where you can find out more information about his case and all of that good stuff. So that, in a nutshell, is who Linder Pellitier is.

All right. Now, so, I mean, is it your belief then looking at it that he really did just get stuck with the blame and that the dead guy is the one who killed the two cops? Or you think that there's some reason to believe maybe he actually did kill the cops. I don't know. We don't know. Because the trial was just so unjust that you just think he deserves a new one. Is that it? Well, yeah. I mean, for sure. There's, I mean, there's no question that there is enough questionable, not only questionable evidence because the casing that they used that was

involved with the shooting wasn't even associated with Leonard's gun that he supposedly had at that time. You know, the investigation was very very. very questionable. The evidence that was used against him has been very questionable. A lot of evidence was withheld, not just from the court itself, but also from the defense team. So, I mean, at the very bare minimum, he should get a new trial. But he is now in his late 70s. His health is declining rapidly. He's in really poor health. He has a multitude of different health issues. And so, you know, it seems that, you know, perhaps we could just get him out of prison or he's in a maximum security prison, no less. So, I mean, there's even been an effort to

try to get him moved to a minimum security prison. I mean, he's nearly 80. He's really not a risk to anybody. So, you know, the goal is to get him out of prison. I know that there's a big push for a pardon. That's kind of what everybody, his legal team is trying to push for, get everybody to call for a pardon. But yes, I mean, I think at the very bare minimum, he deserves a new trial. Yeah. Well, and look, I mean, people. should not underestimate how ruthless the U.S. government is. I mean, remember Erwin Schiff, Peter Schiff's father who was, you know, advocated people not paying their income taxes. He died shackled to his bed. You know, like they're just, they are as ruthless as they would accuse any

authoritarian government in the world of being. And the fact that this guy's still in a maximum security prison is a perfect example of that. It's like the embargo against Cuba or something. They're making an example out of this guy that if you come after us, especially if you even may have touched a Fed, you will be buried under the Supermax. You'll never see the light a day again and let that be a lesson to everybody else, you know? Yeah, that's exactly what they're doing to him. And they've moved him all over the country. He's been in, I think, most of the maximum security facilities. He's now in Florida, which is, you know, all the way across the country.

from his family. They've made everything incredibly difficult. It's very difficult to visit him. It's very difficult to get an interview with him. It's very difficult to even just get a phone call. I just recently interviewed the host of the Leonard Political Prisoner podcast, which is an excellent podcast. If anybody wants to know, you know, all of the historical context and all the nuance and everything, because this case is really complicated. It's difficult for me to kind of wrap it up and, you know, a quick answer. So if anybody wants to know, that's a really fantastic podcast. But I just interviewed them and they said that, you know, just getting him on the phone. If they can get him on the phone, he's given like 10, 15 minutes and that's it.

That's max. And so they really have made an example out of him. And, you know, the fact that there's been so much that's come out since his trial. But, I mean, in the United States legal system, it's really difficult. Once you've been convicted, it's really difficult to get them to go back and look at that again. Because you're essentially asking the court to admit that maybe they got it wrong. And that's really hard. That's hard.

Yeah, well, that's government for you. They're a monopoly. And so you can't go to the competition. There ain't none. Exactly. Right now, is he under the so-called special administrative measures? Do you know? I don't think so.

Technically, he, again, just being in a maximum security prison. Pretty close anyway, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the restrictions are pretty intense. Yeah. I know Sam's are, that's a whole other level of isolation. Yeah, that's torture, yeah. Now, and so, okay, can you go back and tell us a little bit about the American Indian movement and what was going on in this period in the 1970s with the FBI and part of the counterintelligence program of Hoover and all of that or what's happening?

Yeah, there's so much that really goes into it. I mean, again, I mean, if people want to know, I can't, I cannot say enough about the podcast that Andrew and Rory did. Again, it's called Leonard Political Prisoner. I just interviewed them. They did a really fantastic job because it is so complicated. There's a lot, I mean, obviously, there's a lot of history here. This really goes back, I mean, a long time. But, yeah, the A movement was just basically kind of the attempt by, I guess, I hate saying Indian, Native American, whatever.

I don't care what you call it. But, I mean, all of the oppression that they were facing, their land being stolen, the treaties. not being, you know, adhered to all of that stuff that they were kind of facing the, you know, increased police brutality, all of that stuff. This was kind of in response to that. And so it was just like, you know, a movement that was trying to, you know, kind of fight back against that, that oppression. And, you know, there was, there's a lot to go into. I mean, there's a lot of historical context that, about what had been happening, you know, in the Black Hills and, you know, all of the land that was stolen, you know,

here you can have this land. Oh, it's got resources. So never mind, we're going to take that back or we're going to take that away from you. So, yeah, I mean, AIM was just kind of a response group that came up, you know, in an attempt to kind of fight back against what was happening at the federal

level and, you know, trying to regain some of their humanity, I guess. A lot of that was taken from them. And Leonard was a very, active movement in that, or a very active member in that movement. And, uh, you know, as were a lot of people in his, in that area, um, at Pine Ridge that would, I mean, they were all very active in that movement. So, um, yeah, I mean, again, there's so much. Like, I don't even know where to start,

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slash Scott, or use promo code Scott to get 15% off and get the free e-book. Subscribe to their newsletter to immediately receive your free copy of getting started with backyard chickens. That's freerangefeeder.com slash Scott. You know, I think people kind of have an idea of the 70s. It's sort of the post-anti-Vietnam War left, sort of the post-Civil Rights era, or the next kind of chapter in that era. And, you know, obviously a lot of American Indians were saying, well, hey, what about us? You talk about getting screwed around here, you know? Yeah. And so,

and then, of course, obviously you have the FBI just as interested in destroying that as they were going after the Black Panthers or the Ku Klux Klan or any other, you know, attempted separate center of real power in the country, which is, you know, if you want to do politics in America, you can join the Republican or Democratic Party. Otherwise, you're in trouble. That's basically the deal, you know? Yeah, no. And it really was just out of a response to, I mean, if you go back and you look at all of the things, it was an accumulation of events, obviously. That's usually how these kinds of things are born. But in the late 60s and early 70s, there really was kind of this attempt to fight back against, you know,

just this crazy level of discrimination, you know, the theft of land, all of the stuff, the broken treaties. I mean, there was just broken promise after broken promise after broken promise. And they were fed up. And so I think aim was just created, you know, out of that frustration and, you know, just feeling as if they were being taken advantage of and not heard, which, you know, is, you know, very clear. And so, yeah, I mean, I think that they were fighting against high unemployment and the bad housing and racist treatment and treaty rights and the reclaiming of their tribal lands, all of that

stuff, I mean, illness, poverty, all of that stuff that was really running rampant in the native communities, you know, that was really just kind of their attempt at fighting back against us. And they were, I mean, they were pretty outspoken. No question about it. But I think that, you know, the FBI doesn't like, you know, they don't like being. You know, they don't like being. fought back against the United States government doesn't like being, you know, you're just supposed to, you know, sit back and take it, do as you're told, go along, get along, all that good stuff, and they weren't really interested in that. So there was definitely kind of a targeting of AIM members. No question about it. I mean, there was, I think, I'm going to, I might get

this figure wrong. I think there was like 68 murders. I might be wrong on that. Maybe 63. I don't know, I'm getting my numbers a little bit fuzzy, but of different AIM members, um, randomly throughout, know, there was the Goon Squad, you know, which, again, is another, like, there's a lot of context there that people could go back and learn about. But yeah, there was a lot, they were very targeted during this time period in the late 60s and early to mid-70s, all the way up until, you know, the shootout that happened. So, yeah, it was a really rough time for the native communities, no question about it. And then, so this shootout was the culmination of all of it when he was arrested and a couple of the others and that was the end of the thing or um i mean i don't i

guess it i guess it was the culmination of um i mean it was just kind of the way that everything built up to what happened to leonard i mean just if you're in reference to his story um i mean i think that the the native communities are still in a battle for their rights and for you know all of that good stuff um but yeah as far as leonard's story that that really was um it was an accumulation of events that kind of took place through the late 60s and early to mid-70s. And then, as I said, there was a, I think it was like a red and white truck or van or something. And the federal agents followed it onto Pine Ridge Ranch. And like I said, we don't really know and we'll likely never know what actually happened and how the shootout

started. The feds say that, you know, they were fired upon first. Obviously, Leonard and his crew say that they were fired upon first. We will never know for sure what the actual story is that took place and how, you know, who actually was at fault or who, I mean, I think it's really complicated. I mean, in a shootout, it's really difficult to kind of judge. But I know that the federal agents were shot point blank. And then I think that the aim member, I think, was maybe it was like a snipe situation. But, yeah, three people ended up dying and we'll never know the whole story.

And essentially, there were two other people who were, they got tried. and I think they weren't convicted, but then they went after Leonard and they ended up moving Leonard's trial to a different location. They learned a lot from the first trials of the two, I guess they called them co-conspirators or co-defendants or whatever. So they learned a lot, the federal government learned a lot from that, from losing that court case. And so they moved Leonard's trial to a different location and really fought to keep out a lot of stuff from the trial and ended up successfully convicting him and he's been in prison ever since. Yeah, man. All right. So tell me about the activism that you guys have going on now.

Okay. So, I mean, I've been super involved in, my focus has always been kind of more targeted journalists and whistleblowers. I'm heavily involved in the Julian Assange movement. But, you know, when I was listening to the podcast, I mean, I've been familiar with Leonard's work or with Leonard's story and the work to get Leonard Freed. And I, you know, have commented about it and talked about I haven't been super heavily involved. But when I talked to the hosts of the podcast, one of the things that they said that the legal team would really like to see is for people to kind of make a push on the White

House and fight for a pardon. So one of the ways that we can do that, and I figured it was, this is a super easy way for everybody to get involved. The White House comment line is open from Tuesday. through Thursday from 11 a.m. until 3 p.m. It's weird to me that they're so restrictive on the times. But so from Tuesday to Thursday this week, from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m., we want to do a phone call, like a phone call frenzy. Everybody call. Everybody call. You can call the White House comment line. It's 202-456-11111. Super easy. 202-456-11-11. And just call, leave a quick message.

doesn't have to be anything super detailed, just express your support for Leonard Peltier and requests that Joe Biden, you know, pardon him or maybe you could suggest that there be a push for a new trial. I know that Leonard is really unwell. He's, I mean, he's got a lot going on. He was diagnosed with COVID in late January, early February. He's got a lot of other health issues. And he is, again in his late 70s. So, you know, it would be, it would just be nice that he could, you know, spend out his remaining days with his family. He's an artist. He loves to paint. So we're trying to make a push. It's really quick and easy. Phone calls are very easy. So if everybody could just take a couple minutes out of your day on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, and call the White House

comment line and request a pardon. That's something that the legal team would really appreciate. I know, and I know Leonard would as well. All right. Cool. So that's 202-456. And tell us, again, the name of that podcast, if everybody wants to go and sign up and look at that. So, and I really cannot recommend it enough. Again, I'm not like an expert on Leonard. I just, you know, really was just trying to help with this push here to get some support to the White House and try to get for this part in. But the podcast is called Leonard Political Prisoner. It's available on all political or on all podcast platforms.

They also have a Twitter. I believe it is Leonard Pod at Leonard Pod. And the hosts are amazing. They were heavily in contact with Leonard and his team. They have a lot of interviews with a lot of his friends who were involved in that time. And I'm sorry, it's Leonard underscore Pod. My apologies. And then they also have links there where you can find the podcast.

And it is, they do a really great job. Again, this is, it's like a really complicated case. There's a lot that goes into this. There's a lot of history that's involved. And Andrew and Rory did a great job of really kind of diving into that and, you know, presenting a comprehensive and thorough storyline so that everybody can kind of get a feel for, you know, what actually was going down and how. Because really, there is so much, there's so much screwed up about this case and the evidence

that was presented. The way it was presented, a lot of stuff was withheld. You know, they coerced three teenagers to testify against Leonard. those kids have come out since then and said that they, you know, were kind of forced into testifying. I mean, there's a lot. There's a lot. So I highly recommend anybody who wants to learn more about Leonard in his case to check out that podcast. It is very good. And, you know, Leonard is a political prisoner. There's no question about it. So, yeah, if everybody could just make those phone calls on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, you know, I'm not sure it'll do any good, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try. Yeah, there you go. All right, Misty Winston, TNT Radio, and what's the website for that?

It's tnterradio.com. Dot live, I think. Okay. All right, good times. It's so bad. Yeah. No, I really appreciate that. And everybody follow Misty on Twitter at Sarcasm Stardust.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks, Scott. Appreciate it. The Scott Horton Show, Anti-War Radio, can be heard on KPFK, 90.7 FM in L.A. APSRadio.com, anti-war.com, Scotthorton.org, and Libertarian Institute.org.