Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 7/18/24 Dave DeCamp on Christians in Gaza and the IDF’s Latest Atrocities

Episode Date: July 20, 2024

Dave DeCamp was back on Antiwar Radio this week to talk about Gaza. He first tells Scott about the first interview he conducted on his podcast, Antiwar News With Dave DeCamp, about the plight of Gaza���s Christian population. They then discuss some recent atrocities the IDF has been committing in Gaza as well as the Washington establishment’s latest push for the president to get tougher on Iran. Discussed on the show: The Plight of Gaza's Christians With Khalil Sayegh Tucker Carlson interview with a pastor from Bethlehem “Mossad Chief Says Netanyahu’s Demand May Thwart Ceasefire Deal” (Antiwar.com) “Israel Used US-Provided Bomb on School Sheltering Civilians” (Antiwar.com) “Biden Claims He’s Done More for the ‘Palestinian Community’ Than Anyone Else” (Antiwar.com) “CNN Report Claims Secret Service Ramped Up Security Based on Intel of Iran Plot Against Trump” (Antiwar.com) Dave DeCamp is the news editor of Antiwar.com and the host of Antiwar News with Dave DeCamp. Follow him on Twitter @decampdave This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Robers Brokerage Incorporated; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For Pacifica Radio, July the 18th, 2024, I'm Scott Horton. This is Anti-War Radio. All right, y'all, welcome the show. It is Anti-War Radio. I'm your host, Scott Horton. I'm the editorial director of Anti-War.com and all. author of the book, enough already. Time to end the war on terrorism. You can find my full interview archive. More than 6,000 of them now going back to 2003.

At scotthornton.org and at YouTube.com slash Scott Horton show and all your pod catchers and video sites and so forth slash Scott Horton show. And of course, I'm here every Thursday from 23 on KPFK 90.7 FM in L.A. and our guest today is Dave DeCamp. He's our news editor at anti-war.com and he's the host of a podcast called Anti-War News, which is not to be confused with Anti-War Radio, even though he's a regular guest on this show.

And now he's doing interviews himself too. Welcome to the show, Dave. How are you doing? I'm good, Scott. Thanks for having me. So you're doing interviews on Anti-War News now, huh? Yeah, I did my first one with a guy named Khalil Seyeg. He's a Palestinian from Gaza. He's a Christian, and he came on to kind of talk about the plight of the Christians in Gaza

and his family. Unfortunately, he's lost some family in this thing, and they've been sheltering at the Catholic Church in Gaza City. And we talked about a lot of that stuff. I think people would, you know, I think it's a way we could really break through to more conservative Americans is to show how the Israelis treat the Palestinian Christians. So that was my first one. You could go watch it on YouTube, or if you listen to the podcast,

You could go back a few episodes. The plan is to kind of do it kind of randomly. You know, it's not going to so much be a regular thing. But when I feel inspired to interview someone, you know, I'll just post it up there. That's great. And, yeah, the show itself usually is just a rundown of the top headlines on anti-war.com. Great with your breakfast sort of a thing. So that would be interesting.

I can't wait to take a look at that. In fact, you want to talk a little bit about that and what you learned? Yeah, well, you know, I've been following the situation. with the Christians, you know, we saw in October, 2023, they bombed the St. Perferius Orthodox Church, a building attached to the church. I believe the number, you know, they killed 18 Palestinian civilians, mostly Christians. There's Muslims sheltering there as well. And that was actually, people remember, Justin Amash lost relatives in that bombing. One of his cousins, you know, a very young child. And then later, a few months later, the Catholic Church was basically under siege and

snipers killed two Catholic Palestinian women, and they shot and wounded seven people who went out to try to help them. You know, it's kind of a compound. You know, they have the church, they have a nun covenant, and a few other buildings where people have been sheltering. And the Vatican, you know, we kind of got into this, the, you know, the politics of the Vatican responded very strongly. You know, Pope Francis called it terrorism. And Khalil was saying he thinks that that did make a difference of how they approach the Catholic Church, because this is an area in Gaza City now, where they've ordered another evacuation, because what they want to do, you know, it's very clear is that they want to just kind of conquer northern Gaza and get all the Palestinians out.

And, you know, they're really unhappy that they have these Catholics that they can't just bomb away because there is a lot of attention on them. Yeah. It's sad that that's what it takes, but, you know, anything will help, I guess, if that kind of awareness of Christian lives in Gaza being at stake here. helps at all, you know, politically with pressure to, or pressure on Israel or pressure on the American government to pressure Israel, then every little bit on the margin matters a lot when you're talking about people being blown to pieces over there. It's a funny thing. I've seen

people's eyes really light up with surprise and new wisdom and understanding when they're informed that there's such a thing as Palestinian Christians, of course, right? and then oh wait a minute they're on the side getting bombed oh i guess that makes sense huh and then one of the things that they're living in now that they thought about it for the very first time you know and one of the things that inspired me to interview calil um was when tucker carlson he interviewed a guy named munther isaac who's a uh christian pastor in bethlehem and the reaction to that you know that i think again it's just a very powerful when it comes to just American Christian conservatives, you know, a lot of them might say,

huh? What? And, you know, we got into this in the interview. There's something that I've heard from people I know that have gone on tours of, you know, Jerusalem, of the Holy Land. They say, oh, we were supposed to go to Bethlehem, but then they canceled it. They said, oh, the Muslims were acting up or something. But that's not why they don't want to take you there. They don't want to take you there because they don't want you to see the checkpoints and the way that these Christian Palestinians in the birthplace of Jesus are treated. So, you know, and he lived in the West Bank as well, and he's been attacked by settlers and humiliated at checkpoints.

So it's, again, a really kind of powerful account from him. All right. Well, yeah, it's anti-war radio. I'm Scott Horton talking with Dave DeKamp, news editor at anti-war.com. And so help us catch up on the bad news. I guess let's start with the politics of the Gaza War, particularly indeed. but I guess as far especially focusing on our modern day peace process, the never-ending talks towards some kind of ceasefire that never seem to go anywhere, Dave. What is the deal?

Yeah, so the story that we have on the top of anti-war.com today, Thursday, is that the Mossad chief, David Barnia, says that Netanyahu's one of his latest demands is what is impeding a deal with Hamas. And so this is significant because this is the Israeli official, you know, very high-level Israeli official who's been tasked with leading these negotiations. And he's been, you know, doing it this whole time. And now he's saying what is the one obstacle right now is demands from Netanyahu. And we've also seen members of Netanyahu's coalition government from the Shah's party, which is an ultra-Orthodox party, calling on Netanyahu to reach a deal with Hamas, some Lukud ministers, including the defense minister, Yoav Galant. He said that the entire

security establishment wants a deal. So it's increasingly Netanyahu and the most extremist elements of his government, Itamar Ben-Gavir and Bezalos Motrich, who are standing in the way of an agreement here. And the, you know, despite that, and I think this is related to the fact that there's much less attention on Gaza right now because of all this stuff happening in the U.S. Biden's brain and this attempted assassination on Trump. You know, we just don't see any the same pressure on Biden. The U.S. is still providing Israel funding this genocidal slaughter, which has ramped up in recent days. They've really been bombing the place, even though it's just Netanyahu and these guys that Biden has actually mentioned by name that Ben Gavir is a problem.

and it's them standing in the way of a ceasefire. And, you know, the Mossad and the Israeli military, they don't want a ceasefire out of, you know, the kindness of their hearts. They want one because they know the only way to get these hostages back is through a deal. And there's actually a report in Israeli media. I didn't see Netanyahu deny this, that in one of these meetings, war cabinet meetings, he said something like, the hostages, they're suffering, but they're not dying, essentially saying they're going to, to be all right. You know, we don't need a deal right now. And what Nanyahu's doing, according to Israeli sources, all over the media, they say he's holding off at least until his trip to DC,

which is next week. He's going to meet with Biden at the White House on July 22nd and then address Congress on July 24th. I think he's hoping to really kind of have a big public display of American support, hoping that it'll help him domestically in Israel. And then others sources say, you know, he wants to hold out till Trump, you know, if Trump's elected in November, but this is what is impeding the deal. And the reason, again, the reason why they want to ceasefire, they think it's the only way to get the officers. And they are having to go into these areas that they completely destroy. Amas is able to pop back up. I'm sure they're getting fresh recruits. You kill a teenager, a young kid's family, you know, 20-something-year-old's family. What are they going to do? You know,

so it's just the military can't achieve this goal. that Netanyahu has set. They've actually said, and I know we've talked about this a lot, but the military has come out and said that the goal is unachievable. And again, U.S. is still funding it 100%. All right. So, listen, they just keep bombing these schools. I hope that people saw in the news. If the news covered it, I know the Guardian did. I saw it a couple times footage of these kids playing soccer in a parking lot. And then they, the Israelis bombed them. And then Dave, I read another one. And I think you had written this up as well at anti-war.com based on an interview conducted by Amanda Weiss reporter. By the way,

if people got little kids in the car, cover their ears, or change the channel for a second or something for this one, it's ugly as hell. A 16-year-old girl says she saw a little boy who had already had his legs blown off, screaming, cross. on just his hands. He'd been caught in a Israeli bombing there. And then they bombed him again and turned to nothing right in front of her eyes. This is a level of cruelty that you just couldn't embellish, you know? Imagine some serial killer did that to a kid, blew his legs off with a bomb and then dropped another one on him too.

The worst thing you could possibly think of. Put all the serial killers in your encyclopedia to show. shame. But this is what Israel does all day, every day on America's dime with American weapons all wrapped in our flag, in our names, and putting us at risk for terrorist retribution for their crimes. It's sick. It's insane that this is going on. Yeah, and this has been, again, they've ramped things up over the past few weeks. It has been, it seems like every day now that they bomb these schools turned shelters, you know, whether they're UN run. They bombed the Catholic school recently. That's what kind of renewed my interest in that topic.

The strike that you're talking about, that girl, what she was describing, that was the bombing of the Al-Mawesi camp, which is where Israel told Palestinians from Rafa and Conunus to go. That was the so-called safe zone. And Israel claims that that strike, they were targeting Muhammad Dife, who's the head of Hamas's military wing, and another commander of the Kong Unis Brigade. There's been no confirmation of that, even though Israel's admitted that they don't know if they killed Dife. And I mean, I know about Dife. He's always been, you know, a very shadowy figure. He never makes public appearances. It's been assumed for a long time, because Israel's tried to kill him many times, that he's been down in the tunnels. And in that strike,

you know on the refugee camp because it's a tent camp surrounded by this structure that they bombed they dropped according to Israeli officials they dropped five two thousand pound bombs on that camp and killed 90 people on tents yeah I mean that story that Mondo white story we you know I included that quote in one of mine and we ran it as well I mean reading that whole thing I mean it's just it sounds like hell it's just again it's kids describing this and man it's just uh this is what they're doing. And, you know, Biden in an interview the other day, I guess we shouldn't even really, you know, considering how his condition is. He's trying to say he only gave the Israelis defensive weapons and that he stopped sending him heavy bombs. But that one, they paused

one, two thousand pound bomb shipment after sending them 14,000 of them. And they just released the other 500 pound bomb shipment that they paused as well. They just released that, amid as this is happening you know it's again just like the attention's off it doesn't matter they're just going to give them whatever they want it doesn't matter how many children they slaughter yeah well and this does go to his dementia that he can say with a straight face he believes it and so he's not worried about it's already taken care of it's a fact that nobody's done more for the Palestinians than him he's might as well be insane he's you know deteriorated enough that the things in his brain just couldn't be further from the truth and he just believes

in him like hell you know he he goes on and on about all trump's lies in the debate and there were a few but he lied a lot in that debate too but all you can do is give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe half of that's just the senility talking and the other half is pure dishonesty but I guess it's pretty easy to continue to arm a war when you don't even know you're arm in it when you think that giving them pallets full of bombs for dropping on people's heads is defensive weapons like it's anti-aircraft missiles or something like that and the guy's completely demented he's out of his mind yeah and you know what john kirby who is not in the same mental condition a few months back he said name me another country that's done more for the

Palestinians than the U.S. And, you know, I mean, the stuff that's come out of his mouth and during this whole thing. I mean, if there is, you know, a Gaza Holocaust Museum in the future, they're going to have a whole section dedicated to John Kirby and Matt Miller and these government spokesmen just for nine months now. They've just been lying and, and justifying, you know, some of the worst atrocities we've seen in this century. And that's how they're going to be remembered, I think.

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Scotthorton.org slash subscribe. Get all the war lies by me for free. And then you'll never have to believe them again. Searchlight Pictures presents The Roses, only in theaters August 29th. From the director of Meet the Parents and the writer of Poor Things comes The Roses, starring Academy Award winner Olivia Coleman, Academy Award nominee Benedict Cumberbatch, Andy Sandberg Kate McKinnon and Allison Janney, a hilarious new comedy filled with drama, excitement, and a little bit of hatred, proving that marriage isn't always a bed of roses. See The Roses, only in theaters, August 29th. Get tickets now. It's anti-war radio. I'm Scott Horton. I'm talking with Dave DeKamp from anti-war.com. So tell me, what is this crap about an Iranian plot to touch Trump? Please.

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I can't help but laugh. But so, I mean, as we discussed, you know, the Ayatollah doesn't want war with the U.S. Well, first, I should just say what the actual report was. It was from, it came from CNN, and it cited a human source, you know, which means a guy saying a thing. That's what they said the intelligence was based on. And they said that, you know, the Iranians were plotting to assassinate Trump and that they increased secret service protection. And that's a whole other can of worms is, you know, the people. Obviously, the big response I saw from Republicans was, you know, how can they say they increased Secret Service protection when they let this shooter get up on a nearby rooftop and get out a shot on the president?

And you know what I should say, Dave, that as far as that goes, that's relevant. Like if you told me that the threshold for when the Secret Service takes a rumor seriously and told me that threshold is very low, I would be like fine. if somebody makes up a stupid lie about Iran and Secret Service adds more cops to a former president's detail, I don't care. That's okay. But just don't try to tell me that it's real. Don't try to tell me the Secret Service really believes it either. I hope that they know more about how the world works than that. Yeah.

And then so the Iran angle is basically they said, you know, intelligence from a human source that they're plotting to assassinate him. And, you know, they point this to the Trump ordering the assassination of Qasem Soleimani, the Iranian general who is in the head of the Quds force. But, you know, as we discussed, the Ayatollah, Iran, they do not want a war with the U.S. that's very obvious, especially if you look back at the things that have happened for the past few months when things really heated up between Iran and Israel. Iran told the U.S. 72 hours before they launched those missiles and drones at Israel, which was the reprisal for the bombing of their consulate in Damascus. And the U.S. denied that Iran did that, but you had Jordan and Turkey confirm it. And if they told Jordan, you know, they know that that's getting back to the U.S. So they really choreographed that.

And then there was also the Shia militias, you know, attacking the U.S. bases. they kill. Go back to their direct retaliation for the hit on Soleimani. They fired at an empty corner of an American base. And some guys did get some headaches from that and some blast trauma, but they were

still. It was a symbolic strike and launched with warning and launched deliberately away from where Americans could be hurt because they're settling for symbolic retaliation, as you're saying here in this more recent case against Israel.

as well that come on everybody look at it from the point of view of the Ayatola what are you going to do with a problem like America not much right I mean it comes down to it they could give us

a real headache in the war where our country completely destroys theirs and it would be costly but he doesn't want to get his country into a war with America's B-52s and B-2s and B-2 bombers. Get real. That's why they have to resort to the silly lie that, well, yeah, but he's

crazy. You know, he might be a theocrat and be an illegitimate leader, but that doesn't make him so irrational he's going to get his country destroyed, picking a fight with the USA. And everybody says so is just lying. They always have been. Yeah, so, you know, you take that into consideration. if Iran killed a former president and a frontrunner for the next election, you know, that's kind of a way to ensure, you know, military confrontation with the U.S. Absolutely. Joe Biden, look, if that was really true that the Ayatollah put a hit out on Trump and kill them, Biden would go to war with Iran. He would. The whole national security state would go right to war against that because it's, that's their turf, even if they don't like him still.

That's crossing a line. They would never tolerate. It would be full-scale bombing campaign. And the report did also say there was no indication that this guy, what's his name, Thomas Matthew Crooks, I think, the 20-year-old shooter. It said there was no indication that he was linked to this alleged Iranian plot. So then the question there's, why are you even putting this information out there? Because, of course, people are going to connect the dots. And that's exactly, I think, what they want them to do is to think, oh, it's a foreign,

threat, you know? Like, that's really all you need to know, too, is the government themselves admitted to CNN that they only have one guy told them this. They have no signals intelligence that tells them this. They have no confirmation from any of their spies or any of their allied governments in the Middle East. They can't even say Mossad confirms it. Give me a break. Mm-hmm. And everyone should assume that came from an Iranian exile, right? Somebody who's like, loyal to the Shaw's family or loyal to the Mujahideen-E-C cult communist terrorist cult. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. And, you know, they connect it again to the Soleimani assassination. And you do see once in a while, you know, IRGC officials threaten Trump and Pompeo. But I mean, it's just, you know, part of their kind of rhetoric. You know, they're not going to, they can't actually go out. there and kill Trump you know they would never dare yeah they would never even consider that that's completely ridiculous i hope people aren't afraid of that you know what i mean don't let them

manipulate you when they're pointing at a foreign threat and their explanation for the foreign threats behavior is that they're crazy it's because they're lying and the foreign threat is actually not doing what they're saying that they're doing yeah so iran you know was also in the headlines because he had J.D. Vance in like, you know, one of his, I think it might have been his first interview after the news that he was picked as the vice president saying, you know, you got to if you punch Iran, you got to punch him hard. And he called Biden's, you know, bombings. I think, you know, referring to Biden bombing, the Shia militias in Iraq and Syria, called him weak little bombing runs. So that wasn't very encouraging to see because from Vance, who is good on Ukraine. And I know he's voted to take U.S. troops out of Syria and stuff like that. So, and he was referring to the Soleimani assassination, basically praising Trump for killing him. Hey, did you see where someone leaked text messages where he was saying, if America had listened to Israel, we would have never attacked Iraq, almost died laughing. Yeah, yeah. And I guess he was referring to Sharon saying, no, hit Tehran first.

It was like, yeah, but Netanyahu and the neocons were after a rock first dummy. Come on. You can read that in the forward, dude. catch up, Mr. Vice President, elect almost. Yeah, that's something I always point to when I cover these stories about Netanyahu coming for his big congressional address is this was when he wasn't prime minister at the time, but he gave testimony to Congress saying, you know, there's no question in my mind that Saddam is developing weapons of mass destruction and it's going to be great if you invade, you know,

there's going to be great. I think he used the word reverberations across the region. And yeah, I mean, that should give Americans a reason not to like the guy. Yeah, that right there. And that Richard Pearl and Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby and the whole neocon Cabal, their term, was loyal to Netanyahu and his

goals. It's all in the clean break that David Wormster and Richard Pearl wrote for Netanyahu in 96. We get rid of Saddam. Everything goes our way, which of course was completely stupid and wrong, but they're stupid and wrong, the neocons. So that's what you get.

Always love revisiting Israel's role in Iraq War II, and I'm glad that our future vice president gave us an opportunity to discuss that here. And I hope he's just showing off for the Israel lobby and calling off their dogs. Oh, I hate Iran. Okay, please don't shoot. Okay, good. So maybe he'll be okay. I don't know. I know that, in fact, I don't know if you saw this day, but Ross doubt that in the New York Times was reassuring Michelle Goldberg that he's not a Pat Buchanan paleo-conservative. He is a realist. And that means he wants to focus on China, not Russia. Blah, blah, blah. So in other words, he's Henry Kissinger instead of Richard Pearl,

but that's still pretty bad. Yeah, and that's what he said. He did this interview in the New York Times last month. And he said, you know, talking about Ukraine. And he, you know, he outlined some pretty good stuff. He says, you know, freeze the lines where they are. Let's work at a deal where Ukraine maintains it's independence, but is also neutral, because he says he knows that that's the big thing for Russia. He also said that the U.S. would have to provide Ukraine with some kind of military assistance. But, you know, at least he's, when he talks about Ukraine, he sounds serious about it. And he kind of has made it his thing since he came in the Senate. So it does give me, you know, more hope that if Trump does win, there will be some kind of deal. And, but also in that

interview he's talking about China he said in that Hannity interview you know we got he was talking about Ukraine he said we got to wind down Ukraine because we need to focus on China which is the biggest threat he said we're sending all the damn weapons to Ukraine and not Taiwan so it is unfortunate that that is the logic but you know again it's like at least it's not Tom Cotton or somebody like that yeah well that's a whole other question I know you have an article about of course the hawks are pushing hard to bring Tom Cotton and Mike Pompeo in the latter's case back into the new Trump administration that the Democrats have all but conceded is an inevitability at this point. And so we'll see there's hopefully going to be a real fight in the Republican Party

about whether they're going to let George W. Bush's guys control foreign policy again more or whether we're really going to have some kind of break and an America first take, which hey it could have been rubio dude so fist bump across the airwaves here pal yeah it could have been a lot worse seriously all right all right before we go real quick talk to me about the tip for tack going on in lebanon i know that nassarala the leader of hasbala has said that essentially Israel and the palestinians are driving this car and when their war stops then they're war will stop, but there's also a lot of rumors going around that Netanyahu really has sights on them next. And then I wonder, is that really true whether people really believe that that's coming next or no way? Look at how much difficulty they're having right now in Gaza. But then I wonder whether there's any real rumors going around that he's counting on dragging Biden in. That, yeah, sure Israel can take Hezbollah with the American Air Force's help they can.

You know, what about that? Yeah, so I haven't seen anything lately about that being Netanyahu's goal, like actually getting the U.S. to intervene directly, although, and I know I mentioned in this, I think the last time I was on your show, Harrison Mann, who resigned from the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency said that that's what he thought was going on, and, you know, he just resigned pretty recently. But it's tough to really say, I mean, what's going to happen with Lebanon, because we've seen, still see these tit-for-tat strikes. Israel has been launching some very heavy

air strikes. You know, it's over 400 people have been killed in in southern Lebanon, about 100 civilians, and then a few dozen people in northern Israel have been killed by Hezbollah. And so these strikes continue, and we've seen this rhetoric. You know, they still say this. Galant, essentially, they say, if we have a ceasefire in Gaza, we're going to ramp things up in the north. And then you have Hezbollah saying, if there's a ceasefire in Gaza, then we're going to stop firing on Israel. And so one of the reasons why, you know, according to reports I've read, one of the reasons why The generals, the Israeli generals want a ceasefire in Gaza because they want to recuperate and prepare for a potential war or limited incursion into southern Lebanon, which again, I mean, even if they do take a break and try to rebuild, you know, I mean, they're still going to be stretched pretty thin. So it's tough to really know, you know, if there's anything to these threats. But the risk is there, of course, of this thing escalating into something big as long as they're firing rockets and launch an airstrikes. you know across the border i guess there's a possibility that the israelis have really been holding

back and that if it comes to war with his ball they have a whole new war plan that kicks in that's a much greater tempo strikes against their much more capable enemies there but i have to suspect that they're just hoping the u.s navy and u.s. air force come and rescue them and that's the signal the u.s. ascending you know they sent another couple warships uh in response to the leban been on tensions. So, you know, they're basically giving them, you know, their backing in this. Great. All right.

Long hot summer. KPFK Radio. Thank you, Dave. Appreciate you, man. Thanks, Scott. All right, you guys. That's Dave DeCamp. He's news editor at anti-war.com and also hosts anti-war news, now including interviews.

And I'm Scott Horton. This is anti-war radio. I am here every Thursday from two. 2.30 to 3 on KPFK 90.7 FM in LA. See you next week.