Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 8/28/24 Dave DeCamp on Gaza, the US Strike in Syria and the Hezbollah Rocket Exchange

Episode Date: September 2, 2024

Dave DeCamp returned to Antiwar Radio this week to discuss news from the Middle East. He and Scott talk about the death count in Gaza, the dynamic of the war in the U.S. presidential election, the U.S. airstrike in Syria, the Israeli operation in the West Bank and more. Discussed on the show: “The Skeptic Who Could Shape Kamala Harris’s Foreign Policy” (Wall Street Journal) “US Says It Killed Senior Member of Hurras al-Din in Syria” (Antiwar.com) “Ben Gvir Says He Wants To Build a Synagogue at al-Aqsa Mosque” (Antiwar.com) “Israeli Forces Launch Major Assault on the West Bank, Killing at Least 10 Palestinians” (Antiwar.com) “The Haditha Massacre Photos That the Military Didn’t Want the World to See” (The New Yorker) Dave DeCamp is the news editor of Antiwar.com and the host of Antiwar News with Dave DeCamp. Follow him on Twitter @decampdave This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Robers Brokerage Incorporated; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For Pacifica Radio, August the 29th, 2004, I'm Scott Horton. This is Anti-War Radio. All right, y'all, welcome the show. It is Anti-War Radio. I'm your host, Scott Horton. I'm the editorial director of anti-war.com and the author of the book, Enough Already. time to end the war on terrorism. You can find my full interview archive, more than 6,000 of them now, going back to 2003,

all at Scott Horton.org and at YouTube.com slash Scott Horton show and on all your podcatchers and video sites and so forth. And I'm here every Thursday from 2.30 to 3 on KPFK 90.7 FM in L.A. And I'm happy to welcome back to this show, anti-war.com's news director, Dave DeCamp. How you doing, Dave?

I'm good, Scott. for having me very happy to have you here and everybody dave also hosts his own podcast called anti-war news which is a lot like anti-war radio except on anti-war radio i just interviewed the host of anti-war news is basically the deal and and what a bunch of bad news it is i'm so glad i'm writing a book about russia so i don't have to read about israel palestine all day every day and drive myself absolutely crazy with the just sickening horror show going on in our names with our money the Biden Netanyahu canned hunt slaughter of the prisoners of the Gaza Strip concentration camp. It's just ongoing merciless violence there.

And I saw the headline was the official count now, and this sounds like it must be low to me. I don't know, but the official count now is 40,000 killed in Gaza. Dave, is that right? Yeah, yeah, just a few hundred over 40,000 now is the count from Gaza's health ministry. And that does not include what they have said for a while is 10,000 people who are missing so that even that number could be higher now. And they're presumed to be dead under the rubble. Or bulldozed away, yeah, to oblivion.

Yeah. And there's also, you know, we've seen video and reports of Israeli soldiers shooting Palestinians, you know, unarmed Palestinians and then just bulldozing them into the ground so that they don't get counted either. And then there's also the indirect deaths. You know, there's been a lot of estimates, but, you know, we don't really know the real number at this point. But it's certainly, I would say that the Gaza Health Ministry number is a conservative estimate at this point. Yeah.

Remember how they tried to dispute it and pretend that they're exaggerating? Like, no way. This is certainly a low ball. And this is only counting violent deaths. and as you say doesn't include excess death rates from the lack of overall health care and nutrition and safety and every other thing happening. I mean, people surely have just a piece of concrete falling on their head

and God knows what out of the usual nightmare that the Gaza Strip already was. And then 50,000 tons of weapons America has shipped to Israel. That sounds like a conservative estimate too, Dave. Yeah, I mean, this Israel announced this the other day. You know, you have this narrative that the Democrats seemed like they were trying to spin, at least around the DNC, that, you know, the Biden-Harris administration has been working for a ceasefire in Gaza. But they have been, you know, completely supporting and encouraging this slaughter that we're seeing there. I mean, 50,000 tons of weapons. They announced that when the 500th cargo plane landed in Italy. Israel since October 7th, and someone did the math that's one plane arriving every 15 hours. And then there was also 107 ships carrying military aid to Israel. And of course, that includes bombs and tank shells and things like that that are being

constantly dropped on Gaza. And, you know, in this announcement, the Israeli military said that this support is crucial for maintaining our military operations. And Israel would not be able to do what they're doing with. this support from the US and the US provides them with about 70% of their weapons and ammunition and everything yeah and then it just sounds unbelievable that really polio is coming back yeah yeah this is one thing polio is back in Gaza and there's been at least one case a 10-month-old baby has been paralyzed in one leg

as a result of polio and so you have the UN and you know the the humanitarian, you know, the NGOs and everything that are trying to work in there or get aid in there calling for a ceasefire for that, just to vaccinate people. But unfortunately, there's just, you know, nobody is going to listen to that. Israel's not interested in anything like that. And there's no sign right now that there's going to be any sort of hostage deal between Israel and Hamas. Yeah. You know, semantics are funny because, for example, the Israelis say, well, no, we disengaged. And so we're not occupying Gaza anymore.

And now it's this weird semi-independent open-air prison camp under permanent siege, something like that, some technicality. But if you want to be literal about it, Israel annexed the Gaza Strip in 1967. So from that point of view, then they're just slaughtering their own people, quote unquote. Right? It's just a certain ethnicity slash a couple of religions of people that they reject. And so they've herded them into this ghetto and they're just bombing them. But it's really not different than if the U.S. government was just bombing the south side of Chicago or the south side of L.A. And said, oh, these people aren't under our protection. There are our enemies and just bombed them and slaughtered their children by the tens of thousands.

It's essentially what's going on here. it's not like this is an independent country next door or anything it's a prison camp under Israeli control total control and since 10 years before I was born and that's what people don't understand about you know the the apartheid charge because you know recently we had all the big humanitarian orgs come out and officially declare that Israel's an apartheid state and you'll see these like pro-Israel influencers and stuff they go over to Israel and they say where's the apartheid I don't see any apartheid but of course they don't go to the website but of course they don't go to the West Bank, because this is territory that has been, like you said, essentially

annexed by Israel since the 1960s. They have no intention of giving it up. The people are under a permanent military occupation. They have to go through checkpoints. And this is something that's not ending. So that would, you know, mean that it's apartheid in the sense of the definition. Yeah. Can you imagine if it was Slobodan Milosevic doing what Netanyahu is doing in the Gaza a strip right now. I guess Wesley Clark would have to carpet bomb Tel Aviv. Yeah, well, and you also have Samantha Power in the current

Biden administration as the head of U.S. aid. You know, she's the genocide expert that thinks the U.S. hasn't done enough to prevent genocides in recent decades, even though she was a supporter of the intervention in Libya. But you have this woman who is this humanitarian interventionist who's

part of this government. Right. Based on the theory that Clinton didn't do enough to stop Milosevic from killing Muslims in Bosnia and in Kosovo. Yeah, that's kind of like her whole thing. And the USAID, the U.S. aid officials, you know, there's been a lot of internal leaks, kind of the most dissent when it comes to dissent cables and saying that they're opposed to the U.S. support for Israel has come from them because they are completely aware that

Israel is blocking aid and committing war crimes. And so Samantha Power knows all of this, but we don't see her resigning or speaking, even speaking out about it or anything. So it certainly shows the hypocrisy in these U.S. officials. Yeah. Well, and that's what's the best thing about Joe Biden is that he's a bit player in everything that happened in the last half century. So, of course, he was horrible on Bosnia and Kosovo.

And he demonized Milosevic and justified those interventions as bad as McCain or Clinton or Madeline Albright or any other person. so you talk about hypocrisy it's the man in the chair himself right now sitting there when net yahu is a hundred times the villain that milosevic ever was and he knows it good and well too yeah there was someone put together like a little compilation of like the dnc you know biden speech aOC kamala walls and like cutting in like footage from gaza like just during that week and like pictures of just the kids being that were slaughtered and come on david get with the vibes get with the joy kamala's a brat dude come on get

with the slogan get with the tick talk it's really something man i mean like you see aOC like she's called this a genocide and she's out there stumping for the people who are committing it and you know she claimed she's just lying in her speech at the dnc saying oh Kamala Harris is working tirelessly for a ceasefire. I mean, that's a complete lie. She's not doing anything. She's trying to win the election and the administration that she's a part of is shipping 50,000 tons of military aid over there. And we could get into, if you want all the ceasefire narrative that we're still seeing pushed by Blinken and even Biden, like, acting like Hamas is the only obstacle here when it's clearly clear to anybody that's that can pay attention to this stuff, that it's, that it's. Netanyahu who's been sabotaging the ceasefire deal here yet that's not you know you have that's not what Harris and Blinken and all these people are saying they're just just lying to the American people about the reason why this slaughter continues and you know unfortunately you have people who are buying it somehow even people who were you know good on opposing this

now are kind of falling in line it seems like the opposition among the Democrats to this really doesn't seem like it's that much anymore yeah and look i mean i'll go ahead and stipulate it's completely true that this is the thing that trump is absolutely worst on out of everything and he's bad on quite a few things but he might as well be running under the lacud party right now i mean people ask him questions and he goes i don't know ask miriam adelson what i think and that's Sheldon Adelson's widow, who inherited billions of dollars of Chinese gambling money, and so somehow she's the king of the American conservative Christian Republican Party and gets to tell them all what to do and think and threaten them with whether Jesus is going to come back or not.

Can you imagine letting Miriam Adelson tell you what your faith is and control your president like this? It's just incredible. And he's so craven about it. It's just blatant. You know, Michael Tracy pointed out that at the Republican Jewish coalition, I went and found the quote at the Republican Jewish Coalition meeting. He called Mary Madelson out in the crowd, talked about how much influence she had and how, yeah, I moved the embassy to Jerusalem because of you and your husband, because that's what you wanted. So you sure got your money's worth, lady, and all of this stuff. And she's giving them tens of millions of dollars.

And he's just not even shy about it. Of course, Jared Kushner will be in charge of who knows what, but certainly he'll hold the Middle East portfolio again under Trump. But that doesn't mean that there's anything to believe in among the Democrats. And there's no reason whatsoever to think that Kamala Harris is going to do anything other than let Jake Sullivan and Anthony Blinken drive the same way it's been for the last four years, right? Yeah, I know there's been some rumors that she might overhaul the cabinet if she comes in. Oh, guess what? Hey, the Wall Street Journal this morning has a profile of her foreign policy aide, this guy, Philip Gordon. And they go, yeah, this guy's a real rogue.

For example, he wanted to stay in Afghanistan. So you see how he's a maverick, Dave? He thought that that war should last forever and ever and ever. So, yeah, she's bringing some really like outside of the box thinking to D.C. here. Yeah, well, I was going to say that her people are not any better. They might actually be worse. But yet, you know, there's no reason if they're not doing anything right now, they're not going to do anything after the election.

you know, to change this. Because there was, there still is, you know, I don't want to discount. There are some, you know, there were delegates at the DNC from the uncommitted movement. Those were the people that voted uncommitted in protest of Biden's support for Israel, really putting pressure on them. And if, you know, they responded to that, they didn't really give them anything. You know, they didn't even really throw them a bone. I mean, Kamala Harris's speech was, I will, you know, I support, you know, I'm going to keep supporting Israel.

I'm going to always support Israel. And their right to defend themselves, as they call it. going to protect them from Iran. And then she mentioned, oh, but we, you know, we're still working for a ceasefire Gaza, which is just a lie. I mean, they're not. So they're doing everything to appease Netanyahu. Netanyahu inserted all these new demands that his military doesn't think is necessary, that the Israeli negotiators don't think is necessary. And the U.S. stuck Netanyahu's demands in the ceasefire proposal, which now doesn't include a permanent ceasefire. So it's all just a show at this point. It's amazing. I can't believe it's almost a year of this.

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magazine, and someday, hopefully soon, you and your kids will be reading all about the libertarian antics of cartoon me, along with all my new pals. That's tuttle twins.com slash 10 years. It's anti-war radio. I'm Scott Horton talking with Dave DeCamp, and let me put off the Gaza Strip slaughter for a second here, Dave, and ask you about this hit in Syria against these al-Qaeda guys. Usually America's fighting on the side of al-Qaeda in Syria against the, you know, and or the Kurds at different times, but certainly against the Baathis there

and against if Iran or Hezbollah or any of those guys are there, sometimes even kill Russian Merks, but the al-Qaeda guys, the suicide bombers, the headchoppers, and they've always had America's support there since at least 2011, and yet occasionally I hear about a strike like this, and I wonder what you know about it. Yeah, so not too many details, but the U.S. announced the other day that they launched the airstrike that killed a leader of Haras al-Din, which is one of these al-Qaeda offshoots there. Over the past couple years, say two years or so, the U.S. launches occasional drone strikes against them. This is the first one I've seen in a while. So this is just the mess that U.S. intervention in Syria is. So they're kind of

the al-Qaeda guys at the U.S. targets from time to time. And they operate in Idlib, which is the northwestern Syrian province, which is mostly controlled by Hayet Terrier al-Sham, which was Al-Nusra Front, you know, its leader, Al-Jalani was the leader of al-Qaeda in Syria. You know, he's tried to rebrand a bit, as you know, and, you know, try to, basically, you know, it's pretty transparent that it's just an effort to get, like, international support. But they are, you know, this, again, this was the leader of al-Qaeda in Syria. And he's basically, you know, they're like, backed by Turkey. and they're essentially allowed to exist in this area because they keep territory out of the hands

of Assad, out of the hands of Assad's allies, Iran. But then there is this other group, which is like an offshoot from HTS, that's Huras al-Din, that HDS has fought and that the U.S. drone strikes them kind of once in a while. And again, this guy was right on a motorcycle. They got him in a drone Strike, don't know too much about him, like really how senior he was. But it just goes to show, you know, you have the U.S. involved. And lately they've been bombing the Shia militias in Iraq. They've been giving the Kurds some air support against the Syrian Arab tribes that have been going on offensive against the Kurds. It's just such a disaster. There's the al-Qaeda guys that are the moderate rebels. And then there's the al-Qaeda guys that are a little too extreme, I guess.

Yeah. Well, look, I mean, that's the deal right. There's so much truth between the long. lines in this story here. It's, you know, I think you cite in your article, the direct quote from the DOD spokesman, saying, well, these Al-Qaeda guys are anti-Western oriented and agree with that whole bin Ladenite scheme of attacking us. So that's why we hit this guy. But what's he not saying there? But it's heavily implied that we got a deal with Al-Jalani that he just better not mess with us. And we're good with them. Yeah. That's what he said. Yeah. Yeah. That's HTS, they're one thing. These other guys are something else. And it's like, no, these guys are all crazy bin Ladenites. And these are the ones who threaten the United States. These are the ones who are really dangerous. Because the Shiites, you know, whatever you say about them,

there's essentially a chain of command there. Right? The Houthis run a little bit rogue down there in Yemen. But the Ayatollah and Nasrallah have obviously an agreement going back decades to not hit the United States. States of America. Not since 83. That is not their deal. You know what I mean? They're not trying to do that. If anybody's going to take revenge for what Netanyahu's doing in Palestine against the Americans, it's going to be these bin Ladenites. And so I usually want to side with the DOD, but, you know,

and never mind the violence, they could arrest a guy if they could drop a bomb on him. But I tend to side with them if they're saying that there's a real threat from these guys and they think that they are trying to hit the West, then I believe that. I think people need to be more worried about terrorist consequences from Israel's sins that America has to pay for, just like September 11th. Yeah, there was, in Germany, there was a stabbing the other day. I think three people were killed. I might be wrong about that. Maybe three people wounded, but, you know, ISIS took responsibility and said it was in revenge for Palestine. And, you know, Germany. Germany is a major. It's like Israel gets like 99% of its weapons or something from the U.S. and Germany. And it's mostly, you know, the U.S., but Germany provides them with quite a bit as well.

Yeah. All right. So it's anti-war radio. I'm Scott Horton. I'm talking with Dave DeCamp, of course, again here. And I wanted to ask you, before we get to the West Bank, I wanted to ask you about the missile volley back and forth over the weekend between Hezbollah and Israel. Look for a minute like something might come of it, but then again, between the lines, it looks again like the lesson is, none of these guys, well, maybe Netanyahu, but the Shiite side, they really don't want to escalate this war. Because I guess the deal is, right, they know that Israel can't take them. And if it gets too bad, then America will have to intervene. And Joe Biden would bring out the B-52s probably if he had to. And that's what they don't want. And so, isn't that the lesson of the weekend, is Hezbollah lit off some rockets? And I don't know what's the truth of it.

I'm sure everybody exaggerated everything on both sides of the deal. But what do you know about it? Yeah, I mean, that's really what happened. So this was early Sunday morning. Israel announced it was launched in major airstrikes in southern Lebanon, said that they had intelligence that Hezbo was preparing a major attack. And then it seemed like just a few minutes later. That's at least how the news broke online.

I don't know what the actual time period was. But just right after that, Hezbollah announced that they were launching their response to Israel killing one of their senior military commanders in Beirut, which happened last month. So they both sides kind of claimed victory. Israel said that they hit 40 targets, you know, 100 airplanes were involved in the strikes. Hezbollah said they fired, you know, 300 rockets, you know, Kayusha rockets and a few hundred drones, claim that they hit their targets. And then, you know, Israel denies that the Hezbollah strikes were successful. And Hezbollah denies that Israel's were successful. Casualties were relatively low.

I believe it was only three people confirmed killed in Lebanon. And one Israeli soldier was killed by shrapnel from the Iron Dome. So both sides claiming victory. And you could see they're both kind of like, all right, that's it. You know, you could tell later on in the day that it wasn't going to go any further than that. But at first, you know, it was definitely concerning. Could this be the big escalation? And I think you're exactly right that Hezbollah knows they could kind of keep northern Israel in this state of war and be a real problem for Israel.

But if things do escalate to that point, I think it's very clear that the U.S. would, you know, if Israel really starts taking a beating from Hezbollah, the U.S. would start getting involved. I think that's very clear. I think that's very clear, you know, to Hezbollah. Tell me, Dave, what is Netanyahu's motivation for restraint? Is it that the Americans are telling him, don't drag me into this thing? Or is it people in his own cabinet, his own military? Yeah, I mean, you know, I think he has pressure from, on one side has pressure to launch the war from members of his cabinet. On the other side, I think the military is saying, you know, we can't really do this without a ceasefire in Gaza.

And he doesn't want that ceasefire in Gaza. So I think that's probably what it comes down to. I'm sure the Americans are telling him, you know, we don't want this war. But at the same time, they're also kind of emboldening him in a way by making that promise that they'll defend Israel. I mean, you know, they're not just making that to Netanyahu. They're making that to the whole world. So I think right now it is just a matter of the military not wanting to take that next step. We've seen Galant, the Israeli defense ministers say, you know, and he's apparently, he's the guy the U.S. likes the defense minister. He's been saying lately, you know, I'm

I said right after October 7th, we should have gone after Hezbollah, you know, full, full steam. Now the conditions aren't right for that, essentially because the military is overstretched. So I think that is the thing that's ultimately stopping him. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about the West Bank. Well, first of all, let's talk about two major subjects, the violence ongoing. And then also, what is this about Bangavir and trying to change the status of the Alaksa Mosque? Yeah, so I'll do Ben Gavir first. So we've seen this over the past few months.

Ben Gavir, who's the Israeli Minister of National Security, he's been showing up at the Al-Aqsa Mosque or the Temple Mount, as the Israelis call it, and declaring that Jewish prayer is allowed at the site. You know, they've had this status quo there for decades that non-Muslims can visit the area, but they're not supposed to pray. And this is in East Jerusalem, Israeli-occupied East Jerusalem. And Ben-Gavir is trying to blow that up. And he knows that this is a very sensitive issue that could provoke more Palestinian resistance in the West Bank in East Jerusalem.

I think that's part of his goal here. And then just the other day, he says that he wants to build a synagogue there, that he would build a synagogue if he could. And, you know, this gets into a lot of religious stuff at play here. You know, this is the site where they believe was the site of the two ancient Jewish temples and Orthodox, there's a lot of Orthodox Jews that believe a third temple will be built in the time of the Messiah. Then you have the dispensationalist evangelical Christians, mostly in the U.S., who think that building the third temple is going to bring about the Antichrist and the end times. and that's a lot of why a lot of Christian Zionists want to support Israel.

And I mean, there's all that side of it, but I do think what Ben Gavir is trying to do right now is just kind of provoke the Palestinians and just, you know, throw gasoline on the fire. And you see Netanyahu, whenever he does this, Netanyahu puts out a statement saying the status quo hasn't changed, you know, he says that very quickly always, but this is a minister, you know, the head of the Israeli police who's doing this. So this is like a kind of a new thing. There's always been these guys who these Jewish extremists who do this stuff, but this is a member of the government. So it's a bigger deal. What's interesting is I saw this last time that he said he wanted to build a synagogue. We saw a lot of pushback from Orthodox members of the coalition government.

And one of them said something interesting that we can't, you know, we need to maintain good relations with the other with Muslim nations in the region because they form our you know coalition against Iran so I thought that was interesting because that does make sense that's why I think one reason why Netanyahu is so quick to quash this stuff or try to at least and you saw you know Saudi Arabia the UAE all put out statements kind of condemning Ben Gavir what he was saying and all the stuff that's been happening there so there is that and now just Wednesday early Wednesday morning, Israel launched what is being called the largest military offensive against the West Bank since the second Intifada. It's in Janine and Tolkarm, which is like the northern

West Bank. That seems to be where it's focused. So far, the casualties, 11 people have been killed. And they're, you know, we saw the Israeli foreign minister saying, oh, we're going to do to the, what he calls, you know, the terrorist infrastructure in the West Bank. We're going to do the same thing that we did in Gaza in the West Bank. So I think this is something, you know, the West Bank, when it comes to territory that the Israelis want, the West Bank is the big prize. So I think I see this being a priority of this government is to try to really ramp things up in the West Bank. And we've seen the settlers increase their attacks and they're stealing more land and houses. So how are you going to vote for the Republican who's going to cheerlead for the complete ethnic

cleansing of the whole place or the Democrat who's just going to get steamroll and go along with it anyway. Well, hey, Biden sanctioned some settlers today. I mean, it goes to show like they pretend like they're doing something by sanctioning some settlers who live in the West Bank, but they continue to give this military all this that's doing these raids, all these weapons and everything. I mean, it's just a complete joke, like the little things that they do to make it seem like they care but you're right the republicans are going to say it's you know judea and samaria is israel and we support their you know essentially ethnic cleansing of of the west bank yeah all right listen we're out of time for anti-war radio i do want to recommend people if you go look at

antiwar dot com we have the link to the new yorker and they have pictures of the haditha massacre from 20 years ago where the marines machine gun this family and revenge for a truck bombing there was no one to kill so they just killed some innocent civilians and it was a big deal and I think they were prosecuted and then later released. I forget. Anyway, they finally put the pictures in the New Yorker and it's important to bear witness and remember what George Bush did and what he made these guys do and what they did under his authority. What America went along with under the pretension. We're defending our country from attack by a rock of all things and enough people bought it and made it happen and a million were killed and as ugly as

hell and it ain't going away for them. So that's at the bottom of the page there, the bottom of the top at anti-war.com today, the haditha mask or pictures there. And thank you very much for your time, Dave. Great to have you back on the show. Of course, Scott. Thanks for having me.

All right, you guys, that's Dave DeCamp. He's our news editor at anti-war.com. And that's it for Anti-War Radio for this week. I'm Scott Horton, editorial director there at anti-war.com. Find the full archive at Scotthorton.org. And I'm here every Thursday from 230 to 3 on KPFK, 90.7 FM in LA. See you next week.