Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 8/7/24 Dave DeCamp on the Looming Clash between Iran and Israel

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

Dave DeCamp was back on Antiwar Radio this week to talk about Gaza, the possible Iranian retaliation and more. He and Scott go through a series of news stories DeCamp recently published and discuss whether or not the region is about to plunge into a wider war, as many in the media are fearing this week.  Discussed on the show: “Israel Considering ‘Preemptive Strike’ Against Iran” (Antiwar.com) “Smotrich: It May Be ‘Moral and Justified’ for Israel To Starve 2 Million Palestinians to Death in Gaza” (Antiwar.com) “Majority of Americans Oppose Using US Troops To Defend Israel” (Antiwar.com) Dave DeCamp is the news editor of Antiwar.com and the host of Antiwar News with Dave DeCamp. Follow him on Twitter @decampdave This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Robers Brokerage Incorporated; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Libertarian Institute.org slash donate. And thanks, y'all. For Pacifica Radio, August the 8th, 2024, I'm Scott Horton. This is Anti-War Radio. all right y'all welcome the show it is anti-war radio i'm your host scott horton i'm the editorial director of anti-war dot com and author of the book enough already time to end the war on terrorism you find my full interview archive more than six thousand of them now going back to 2003 at scott horton and at youtube dot com slash scott horton show and all the other podcatchers and video sites

things out there. And I am here every Thursday from 2.30 to 3 on KPFK, 90.7 FM in L.A. All right. And our guest this week is Dave DeCamp, news editor at anti-war.com. Welcome back to the show. Dave. How you doing? I'm good, Scott. Thanks for having me. Very happy to have you here. And to get the latest from sadist land over there, America's greatest ally, although no one can come up with a single thing they've ever done for us other than help Obama back al-Qaeda in Syria maybe? I don't know. Lie us into war with Iraq. So, but yeah, so there's the international situation, whether Israel is going to succeed in getting America into war with Iran and its allies. And then there's just the question of the everyday brutal

cruelty meet it out onto the Palestinian people for being born with the wrong religion over there. So I guess let's start with the international politics of the things. thing. So the Israelis assassinated Hamas's political leader, Ismail Hanya, in Tehran, right about a week ago. The Iranians, of course, have promised retribution, although the Ayatollah likes to do symbolic kind of retributions and try to stay out of a large war, typically speaking. But the Israelis, according to the front page today on anti-war.com, are threatening to launch a preemptive war. I know where I've heard that before. And so I guess I'm wondering if you can give us what your temperature taken on all of this is and whether you think that we're really about to break into a full-scale regional war between Israel and all of their Shiite-led alliance enemies and whether you think America is going to get dragged into.

Yeah, I mean, it really does seem much more likely now that this could really explode into a major war. here that the U.S. would get directly involved in. You know, you mentioned the Ayatollah Khamenei, and judging by his rhetoric after this thing, I mean, pretty much immediately after the news broke that Hanier was killed in Tehran, you know, he put out statements saying that they're going to get revenge. And we're seeing all political leaders in Iran saying that as well. And then they killed Hanier just hours after Israel. launched an airstrike in Beirut that killed a senior Hezbollah commander. And Hezbollah is also vowing Nasrallah has delivered two big speeches since then, the leader of Hezbollah. And in both of

those, he's saying, you know, we're going to escalate this thing. And Israel and Hezbollah have been involved in a, you know, they've been trading strikes across the border for, what, 10 months now since October 7th. And it's, you know, there's been hundreds of casualties, but he's saying that they're going to take things to the next level. And what he said in his speech just this week on Tuesday, he said, you know, we're going to respond a strong response. And he said either, you know, alone or with the axis of resistance. And that refers to, of course, Iran, Hezbollah, the Shia militias in Iraq, and the Houthis in Yemen. And the Houthis in Yemen. as well, who Ansar Allah is there officially known. And I think it's possible. There's been all

these reports. You know, it's tough to say this week has been kind of tough trying to figure it out because, I mean, over the weekend, it was like, all right, this attack is coming on Sunday or Monday. Now they're saying it could happen this weekend. They're not exactly sure. The U.S. is saying they're on this big diplomatic push, but the U.S. is also telling Israel and telling the world that we're going to defend Israel. They sent more warships into the Middle East, another aircraft carrier, extra squadrons of fighter jets, saying that they're going to do a similar thing that they did back in April when Iran attacked Israel directly for the first time. And that was in response to Israel bombing the consulate in Damascus. But they're saying it might

be bigger than that than that attack was. In that attack, Iran fired about 300 missiles and drones. They really choreographed what they were going to do. The U.S. had plenty of notice. This time, I'm not sure if that's going to happen. And again, it could also include, you know, major strikes from Hezbollah, which I think could really change things. You know, they're worried that they're going to just try to overwhelm the Israeli air defenses and there's potential that it might be a multi-day attack. So something big could be coming at the same time.

I'm sure that there's back channel talks right now happening between. the U.S. and Iran, you know, very quietly. So hopefully that can, they can figure out an arrangement where they fire some missiles. The U.S. intercepts some and it doesn't get out of hand. But I don't know. And you mentioned the preemptive strike. Netanyahu discussed this with his security cabinet on Sunday. They said, all right, if we get intelligence that Iran is going to attack us, we might launch a preemptive strike. A preemptive strike for the preemptive strike that they already launched in Tehran by killing Hanay on Iranian soil. So another thing about this and then is that they killed him, you know, he was a guest of Iran. He was there for the

presidential inauguration. He was staying at an official guesthouse that's heavily guarded by the IRGC. So it's a huge embarrassment for Iran. So that's why I think it is different than other instances and we might see a big Iranian response. Yeah, I'm not so sure about the Ayatollah's willingness to go very far. I mean, he seems to do just like, well, just like when Trump killed Soleimani, they responded with a symbolic strike. And then after the assassination of the officials in Syria, there was the very limited retaliation, as you said, well choreographed with the defenders to, you know, essentially check

box of a symbolic form of resistance. But, you know, the headline also reads, five U.S. troops injured in a rocket attack on a base in, I guess, in Kier Kuk, presumably by Shiite forces. I saw also on the headlines today that you have a story about Biden just absolutely bombing the crap out of Yemen. But he told me the other day, America is not a war anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, they've continued bombing Yemen. You know, it's almost every day that. that either we see U.S. Central Command puts out a statement say that they launched strikes in Yemen or that they intercepted Houthi missiles and drones. And this is going on almost every day. We get very little detail about it. You have the Yemeni media that reports on it, but not too much detail

about what's actually happening on the ground when it comes to these strikes. But, you know, that's the thing is that there's a lot of factors here besides the Ayatollah. That rocket attack on the U.S. base in Iraq, you know, that came after the U.S. bombed Iraq, just, recently. There was, the U.S. and Iraq held talks on the future of the U.S. military presence. The prime minister al-S. has said he wants the U.S. to leave, and then they entered these talks. And I think part of the deal for why we saw the rocket attacks stop on U.S. bases was that al-S. Sudani said, I'm going to get the withdrawal. I'm going to get the U.S. to leave. But then recently there were talks between the U.S. and Iraq about the future of the U.S. military

presence and they put out a big long statement, but there was no concrete, you know, timeline for when they might begin drawing down troops. And they also say they want to continue the partnership, you know, basically leaving open the possibility of a continued U.S. military presence while ending the anti-ISIS coalition. So I think that's, we saw some rocket attacks on, on U.S. bases after that, no casualties, no damage. And then the U.S. went and bombed the PMF, which is the popular mobilization forces, the coalition of the Shiite militias, who are part of Iraq's security forces. So the U.S. goes and bombs them and kills four of them. And, you know, it's just such a mess because, again, the PMF is part of the Iraqi military. And the Iraqi government,

which is supposedly the U.S.'s partner, really strongly condemned the strike, called it a heinous crime. These are the people that we're supposed to be fighting with, you know, against ISIS. And so then after that, we saw the latest rocket attacks that injured five U.S. troops. And the U.S. is saying they're going to respond to that. So this is another area where, you know, with this going on kind of coinciding with the stuff happening with Iran and Hezbollah, it's just another factor. And then you have Yemen. Not sure if the Houthis could really escalate things, you know, against the U.S. or against

Israel, but I'm sure they can get in on some missile and drone barrages. and they seem like, you know, they're itching for a fight with anybody who wants one. So I don't think Iran's going to be able to control them. Man. All right. So let's talk about what's going on in Gaza right now with this war. Well, a war is when two armies are fighting, as Bill Hicks pointed out 30 years ago. But in this case, I saw this headline that it may be moral and justified for Israel to starve two million Palestinians.

to death in Gaza and I thought oh that must just be some crank on YouTube said that or something but then I find out that it's a member of parliament named Bezalel Smotrich but then I thought well he must be like the most marginal character in Israeli politics if he's crazy enough to say something like that am I right Dave yeah I mean that's what you would think but he's the he's in the Netanyahu government, he has a very powerful position. He's the finance minister, and he is also has a ministry role in the defense ministry that puts him in charge of the West Bank. He's essentially the occupation governor of the West Bank. He can approve new settlements and grab land, and he's been doing that. And this is the guy. He's a settler himself and has been outspoken for years about,

you know, he wants annexation of the West Bank and to expel the Palestinians. So yeah, he said this. You know, he said that basically we could have starved the Palestinians to death, but the world won't let us. And the way that he put it was that they're getting this international pushback. You know, what he said was we can't go and starve two million civilians to death, even if it's moral and justified because of, you know, the world or the international community, as they call it. So he's complaining about that that they have to let aid into Gaza. That's anti-Semitic. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But amazing.

And, you know, it has just been a trickle of aid that that is going in, but he wants to cut off the whole thing. And this is, you know, not really surprised to see coming from Smotrich. I mean, this is more kind of just in your face, you know, saying how he wishes they could just genocide all of them, you know, kill every single one of them. them but um because that's a population of guys it's about 2.3 million um and more than half are kids children who didn't vote for hummus or anything but doesn't matter to him yeah of course not hang on just one second for me here you guys i'm so proud to announce the publication of the libertarian institute's 14th book it's israel winner of the 2003 iraq oil war undue influence deceptions and the Neocon Energy Agenda by Gary Vogler, former senior oil consultant and deputy senior oil

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And now, so I saw this this morning, seemed like it had multiple confirmations because there were already, I guess, the man's official complaints had gotten out. And then a whistleblower leaked footage that purports to be, by the way, if you got kids listening right now, just put your fingers in their ears or change it to Janet Jackson for a minute or something. because what it was was footage of these IDF soldiers taking a captive from inside one of their prisons and just dragging them over there by the wall and then gang raping them and all with a German shepherd barking at them the whole time like the Nazi Germans and this is what we're paying for literally now and surely will pay for later in the form of kamikazis on our skyscrapers and God knows what. Yeah, I mean, so this was really something when this, the way that this all unfolded. So this is at the Sidae-Tyman detention facility in southern Israel, and there's been Israeli whistleblowers that have come out and said the detainees, and these are people that they scoop up in Gaza, said that they're being tortured and abused, all sorts of horrific accounts and allegations from Palestinians who were prisoners there.

So these were some of the worst allegations that we've seen. And then Israeli military police go to this facility to arrest IDF soldiers who were suspected of essentially gang raping a Palestinian who ended up in the hospital, just in really horrible shape. And they arrested 10 of the soldiers who were suspected of being involved. And this sparked protests. Israeli, you know, they consider far right activists show up to the base. And they actually stormed the facility.

stormed another facility where they were holding the soldiers. And you know, this isn't just fringe extremists. There were members of the Israeli Knesset involved in this. You had Idemar Ben-Gavir, who's the Minister of National Security, basically, who said that he's implements, you know, he's depriving Palestinians in prisons of food and that, you know, they're not going to have an easy time in there was kind of what he said in response to this arrest. he got people charged up to go storm the place where they were being held. And also the

Israeli heritage minister, Eli Amahai Eliyahu, who is in the government. He showed up too to protest this. And now the case is going on. They've released five soldiers. There's evidence that maybe they weren't involved. And then the other five are on trial. Well, maybe not on trial yet, but they're going through the process of investigating. it. So to see the response, you know, of them basically protesting the right to rape these Palestinian prisoners to torture them as much as they can. And there was an Israeli member of the Knesset. There was a debate about this whole thing and said that it was a legitimate thing to do if they're a, you know, Palestinian fighter, if they're Hamas or whatever. But these are people scooped up in Gaza.

And I'm sure some of them are Hamas, but they can, you know, arrest and detain people. for any reason. And we've seen pictures of them stripping down, you know, men that they arrest in Gaza, including very young boys that get thrown into these detention centers. Yeah. The IDEF is the moral equivalent of the NKVD under Joseph Stalin. Zionism is the moral equivalent of Soviet communism, torturing people to death in just with absolute abandon on the George Bush model. But then again, you know, there's a reason that they call. called the torture device at Abu Ghraib, the Palestinian chair. And it wasn't because they got the idea from the Palestinians.

It was the Israelis who were training the Americans and their contractors on how to torture these poor people to death in Iraq War II that they lied us into. But it's clearly the most barbarian regime on the planet. There's nothing to compare it to. They make Vladimir Putin look like he just stayed home. And it's all on our dime. And I guess most people don't know this because they wouldn't tell you on TV and George Bush certainly lie to the American people, but Israel's wanton cruelty and barbarian mass murder of

innocent women and children was the primary motivating factor, or at least tied, for al-Qaeda to turn against its American masters and knock our towers down, kill 3,000 of our countrymen, and kick off a whole generation of war. Those were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton's guys that did that and they did it because bill clinton helped shimon perrez murder lebanese and i don't know if people know this i only found this out recently do we talk about this dave it was literally actually naftali bennett was the guy who killed the 106 women and children at the u.n shelter at kana in 1996, you know, during Operation Grapes of Wrath, when Mohamed Atta and Ramsey bin al-Shib decided to join Al-Qaeda. And these are the ringleaders and the lead hijacker of the September 11th attack

right there. And that was why they did it. And so George Bush said, oh, they hate us because we're free and we're innocent and we love our mamas. But that wasn't it. It was Israeli barbarianism. And it won bombs in Building 7. It was Israeli barbarianism. got those towers knocked down by motivating al-Qaeda to turn on the united states and uh hit us in that way and it's i mean if the con a massacre of 96 and operation grapes of wrath is what brought on september 11th what do you think's going to happen after this nothing i'm worried about it america's lousy with soft targets and cooks you know yeah and again you mean i mean you see what's happening right now is the u.s you know directly uh...

for Israel like they did in April when Iran attacked them. This goes beyond sending weapons and intelligence. It's direct U.S. military involvement. And if you see the story right now at the top of anti-war.com, there was a poll conducted that found the majority of Americans don't want U.S. troops defending Israel, but that doesn't matter to Biden or Kamala Harris, whoever's running the show. And they're committing U.S. troops for this. And if this does turn into something big, you know, if, say there's a big, you know, missiles hit in a U.S. base, and there's a lot of American casualties, I mean, then things can really escalate from there. A lot of people will just start paying attention to the whole thing, too, and won't even understand, you know,

all the context of this. So there's a real risk of things really exploding and a lot of Americans getting killed because of this. Well, and look, man, I mean, nobody knows who's in charge. people speculate and I think there's some reason to believe that Jake Sullivan, Hillary Clinton's man, is the one calling most of these shots up there. But he's just the advisor to the president for national security affairs. He's not even in the chain of command at all. You know, he's not between the president and defense or between the president and state. He's supposed to help

coordinate their projects and so forth. But he's not literally the boss of anything but the NSC. But Nobody really knows. I mean, I read a report recently where Biden was the holdout on wanting to promise NATO membership to Ukraine at the 75th anniversary last month. He wanted to soften the language. And I think it was the New York Times had it that just Sullivan stayed after him and just pressured him and pressured him and pressured him until he adopted the language that Sullivan demanded that he say. Biden's lucid enough to know, hey, we can't bring Ukraine into NATO. Let's just talk about their Euro-Atlantic aspirations. Let's dumbed it down a little bit. And Sullivan insisted, no, Mr. President. You're going to say NATO membership. And he went, okay.

So I guess that's who's in charge of our Israel policy? Maybe it's Secretary Blinken, but he's not in the White House, right? He's over at the State Department. So I don't know if anybody knows. Maybe we should ask, like, the Chinese or the Russians to leak it to the media who they think is in charge. You know, at least they have. intelligence services and stuff. We're just reading tea leaves out here. Yeah, and this is the situation that we're in. I mean, with this potential major war on the

horizon here, and these are the people we have to deal with, you know, there's the uncertainty of everything. You know, it seems crazy that the election is still three months away with everything that's just happened over the past few weeks. We still have a long way to go between then and now with the president who you know isn't running because of the condition of his brain yeah oh and two more months after that before the actual handoff takes place unless he resigns you know which i'm surprised he hasn't resigned yet seems like he would just resign and give her the advantage the way yeltsin did for putin in 2000 that still may take place but yeah now i have to say just using the force the way i do i'm not really feeling it

I mean, the most important thing to keep in mind here, not that this is everything. It's just one factor, but it's an extremely important factor is, as you mentioned, the Ayatollah doesn't want to fight. What's he going to do? Fight the United States of America? Like, yeah, he gets some hits in, but then what? He's going to get a sense of satisfaction out of that while his whole country's burning to the ground? No. This guy has been the dictator of Iran since 1989.

He is not trying to get into a war with us. and as I know you've well reported during this Israeli generated crisis here, that he has put pressure on the Iraqis, on Hezbollah, on, I don't know if he's had to bother with the Syrians, but, and tried to pressure Ansar Allah in Yemen to back down and to cool it and to not escalate this thing into a real war that brings in the United States. Isn't that right, Dave? Yeah, yeah. I would, and I would guess that, you know, this recent rocket attack that, injured the U.S. troops. I would guess Iran is not thrilled about that. I don't think they want that happening right now as they're figuring out what their response is going to be. I don't want I don't think they want any extra provoking of the U.S. Yeah. You know, at the same time, you kind of hinted at this earlier. I don't know if you had any information of this or just your gut, but that there must be back channel talks going on because Biden doesn't want to fight diatoli either.

The Pentagon doesn't want to fight Tehran. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't have any, you know, I haven't seen anything that they're having talks right now, but I know back in April, some officials met in Oman. You know, I don't think they meet directly. I think they hang out in one room while the Omani officials go back and forth. Right. I would just, I would guess that something like that at some level is probably happening right now. I would hope, at least. Yeah. And look, I don't want to be too Pollyanna-ish about this. Sometimes I say error too far on the side against alarmism and this thing certainly could go to hell

and it's certainly in Benjamin Netanyahu's individual interest to drag this war out as long as he can and if he thinks that on the chessboard he sees a way to do an end run and force America to really fight Iran he might take it but

I don't think that's what's going to happen here and I again I guess if I thought the Ayatollah was really game and spoiling for a fight then I'd be a lot more worried but I think and certainly he does have his red lines he must but he must be telegraphing as you say behind the scenes and in those rooms in oman thayatollah doesn't want to fight let's figure out a way to settle this thing down you know yeah yeah let's hope uh one thing that i just read right before we started recording

just based on i think like some israeli tv reports apparently the u.s netting yahoo is is asking now there's no hostage deal negotiations between israel and hamas happening right now but netting yahoo is asking now he wants the deal to be like a first phase which which is a hostage and prisoner exchange for like a six-week ceasefire and he wants to be able to restart military operations after that first phase and then do other negotiations while you know he the war is back on and apparently the u.s is is agreeing to that so that could change then yahoo's calculation maybe that he's like all right well they're going to let me continue this thing and Gaza. So maybe I don't need the war with Iran. But at the same time, I still think a temporary

ceasefire is not in his interest either because it's going to bring calm to the region and people aren't going to want it to restart in Israel and outside of it as well. Right. Man, it's something else. All right. Last topic and make it quick, please. And I know, you know, this is ridiculous. And I apologize for wasting your time. But tell us about this story about the Iranian-Hittenden man sent to kill Donald Trump. Oh, was there, is this about the guy from Pakistan? Yeah. I understand you not taking it seriously, but we got to debunk even the silliest claims

when they're on this level, you know? I didn't really look into it yet today. I've had that tab open. Well, all you need to know is it was an informant got him to say something and hire some hitman or something. The whole thing's stupid. Yeah, isn't it like $5,000 to try to kill the president? everybody i'm surprised there's this much substance to it but it's still obviously completely nothing so

if anybody's ever heard of co-intel pro this is one of those obviously again they always do that yeah yeah i do have to look into it a bit more just to know what the story is but yeah i mean come on otherwise the story is that the fbi heroically did something heroic and stopped something bad which obviously couldn't possibly be true so it must be that they made up a fake plot and pretended to bust it, just like they've done hundreds of times in this century so far. So must be just another one. But I know people are just so quick to believe the hype when they hear this. Oh, did you hear Iran tried to kill Trump? Like, no, yeah, I heard that, but that doesn't mean I was supposed to believe it. And neither are you. Come on.

Well, Trump seems to be buying into it. Did you see that post from him on his true social? He said, if I'm ever assassinated, the U.S. has to obliterate, you know, wipe Iran off the face of the earth or something. Yeah, I'm sure he believes. I'm sure Netanyahu told them to believe it and then wrote him a check. So he's like, all right. All right. Well, anyway, we're out of time.

Thank you so much for your time again. I love talking to you, Dave. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Scott. Thanks for having me. Aren't you guys? That is Dave DeCamp. He is our news editor at anti-war.com.

And he's got this really great podcast called Anti-War News. and that's it for anti-war radio for today i'm your host scott horton find my full interview archive 6,000 of them and more going back to 2003 at scotthorton.org and at youtube.com slash scott horton show and i'm here every thursday from 233 on kpfk 90.7 fm in l.a See you next week.