Screaming in the Cloud - Episode 12: Like Normal Cloud Services, but More Depressing

Episode Date: May 30, 2018

Does your job challenge and motivate you? Does it utilize your skills? Or, are you ready to go job hunting? Do you want an awesome job that is a resume booster? Companies should be supportive of their employees finding a job that matches their skills and interests. Also, when hiring, companies should offer thoughtful processes for interviews.   Today, I’m talking to Sarah Withee, a polyglot software engineer, mentor, teacher, and robot tinkerer. Sarah went job hunting, and after several job interviews, she finally found a job that made her super happy at Arcadia Healthcare Solutions. Sarah compares the interview processes she experienced at big name tech companies that offer Cloud services. Some of the highlights of the show include: Companies sometimes lose sight that even interview interactions need to be a two-way sale Interviews often involve talking to many people; and if several are bad, that forms a negative impression of the company Companies need to provide interview training and follow the same standards Don’t farm out challenging or unfamiliar issues when interviewing candidates Sarah is very competent, but she is new to Cloud platforms; she is like a sponge, who enjoys learning and having a bare knowledge of new technology How HIPAA regulations impact Sarah’s learning and software engineering work; she has to be more aware of security and safety of healthcare data Being a teacher and mentor affects how Sarah learns new things; everybody learns slightly differently In the Cloud space, know which direction you want to go and start with simpler things to learn the basics; focus on what is relevant to what you are working on Links: Sarah Withee on Twitter #speakerconfessions Sarah Withee on Twitter Sarah Withee Blog Sarah Withee Resume Digital Ocean AWS Azure .

Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud, with your host, cloud economist Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud. This week's episode of Screaming in the Cloud is generously sponsored by DigitalOcean. I would argue that every cloud platform out there biases for different things. Some bias for having every feature you could possibly want offered as a managed service at

varying degrees of maturity. Others bias for, hey, we heard there's some money to be made in the cloud space. Can you give us some of it? DigitalOcean biases for neither. To me, they optimize for simplicity. I polled some friends of mine who are avid DigitalOcean supporters about why they're using it for various things, and they all said more or less the same thing. Other offerings have a bunch of shenanigans, root access and IP addresses. DigitalOcean makes it all simple. In 60 seconds, you have root access to a Linux box with an IP. That's a direct quote, albeit with profanity about other providers taken out. DigitalOcean also offers fixed price offerings. You always know what you're going to wind up paying this month,

so you don't wind up having a minor heart issue when the bill comes in. Their services are also understandable without spending three months going to cloud school. You don't have to worry about going very deep to understand what you're doing. It's click button or make an API call and you receive a cloud resource. They also include very understandable monitoring and alerting. And lastly, they're not exactly what I would call small time. Over 150,000 businesses are using them today. So go ahead and give them a try. Visit do.co slash screaming, and they'll give you a free $100 credit to try it out.

That's do.co slash screaming. Thanks again to DigitalOcean for their support of Screaming in the Cloud. Hello and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. Joining me this episode is Sarah Withey, who's a polyglot software engineer. She's a mentor, teacher, and robot tinkerer, sometimes all at the same time. You may have seen her on Twitter, having started the Speaker Confessions hashtag, which was just a wonderful thing for those of us who get up on stage and unfortunately embarrass ourselves routinely. Welcome to the show, Sarah.

Oh, thank you very much for having me. So somewhat recently, you posted a blog post that was wonderful, and I'll throw a link to it in the show notes. But you talk about winding up at your current employer, Arcadia Healthcare Solutions, and you talk about the interview process and the interview process at other companies that either didn't extend an offer or you chose not to pursue. What was it that inspired you to write that post? Good question. So I was kind of at a place where I found I wasn't sort of mentally fulfilled, if you will. The work wasn't challenging me. I didn't feel like I was using my skills. And so I just started this job. I started it about in July 2017. And I was kind of doing it behind

the scenes while I was working and just told myself, you know what, this time I don't want yet another developer job. I want something awesome. I want like a cool resume boost or a big name tech company or something. I don't know. But I also thought I have a network big enough now where I know enough people in random cities all over the place that maybe I could just go buy referrals from friends or something or just general people I know. So I started down that path and ended up at some really amazing places. The more I think about it, I'm pretty proud of the fact that I've landed at on-site interviews at Google and Amazon and Square and, you know, different places like

that. But I really kind of in the end, like I ended up telling my managers that I was job hunting eventually. And it ended up one of these things where you're just like, oh, I have a job and they know I'm looking, so there's no reason they're going to keep me. In fact, the opposite happened for me in that they said, you know what, we want to support you because we want you to land somewhere where you fit better. That's an incredible move of support from an existing employer. It was absolutely weird and absolutely awesome at the same time. Because the director of HR knew, and even he said, we just want to be supportive of you. And I'm like, that is really weird. But I mean, definitely really great. And so I started going public and mentioning on Twitter, like I was going somewhere for a job

interview. I was going here and there, but I decided it wasn't smart to mention the companies. So one of the things as I was going through these interviews, like, wouldn't it be so cool if I just wrote this post? Like, look at all the cool places I've gone. But, you know, I never had any ending destination. I was just still interviewing and everything was just going left and right into the trash can. It finally was when I had some really good interviews at a few places. And I'm like, I really should talk about, like, why Square had some really good interviews at a few places. And I'm like, I really should talk about why Square had some really good interviews, whereas I didn't feel like Amazon really did. And not just that, but in the end, when I finally got to Arcadia, I'm just like,

this was a really good interview. I really enjoyed it. And you think of job interviews and you don't think, gee golly, this is fun. I want to do some more. You really think they're stressful and they're daunting. And you're just like, do I have to do another one? Well, I don't have a job yet. I guess I do. And I really kind of wanted to talk about there are places that have more thoughtful processes and you don't feel like a giant miserable pile of rejection at the end. And I kind of wanted to talk about that, but also kind of like brag like, hey, you know what?

I finally found the job. I'm super happy. So that's sort of how the blog post came together. It was sort of this, I kind of want to brag about these places, but I don't want to just brag. I really want to say there's some good that can come out of it. You at your company can maybe take some of these ideas and take them to heart as you go into looking for candidates and talking to them. One of the things that dropped that blog post onto my radar was that there was a giant list of companies you spoke with, but four of them are very relevant to what I do. You interviewed with

Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and IBM, all of whom are very large public cloud providers in one form or another. So I was wondering if you could, I guess, compare and contrast how those four companies went about the interview process and I guess how it felt respectively between those different companies. Yeah. And, you know, they're all kind of your, I call them in capital letters, big name tech companies with the trademark sign after them. And it was kind of interesting because they all have in some ways like really similar processes, but in some ways very different. Google, when a recruiter came after me for them, and I just kind of decided, oh, let's try it. I don't have the foggiest idea how far I'll get into it.

I kind of did a little research, and they hire for the type of position. So I wanted to be a software engineer. So they hired generically for a software engineer position, but I knew ultimately if I made it that far, they would put me on the site reliability engineering team. So from there, they just asked questions generically for software engineers. And if I didn't make it through that, then I wouldn't get any software engineer position anywhere. Whereas Amazon was kind of different in that I had an initial recruiter interview. And once I got past them, and they thought I would be a good fit for Amazon in general, then teams started to come after me.

And I would interview with a specific team and then either get a yay or nay. And then if I got a nay, then I would still be possibly considered for other teams, which is kind of interesting because I ended up talking to about four different teams with them before I finally got far enough that I just didn't end up taking it or didn't end up getting the job. I don't know if this is typically how they do some of their stuff, but I interviewed specifically with a team. So the people I talked to were on that team and kind of that way from the beginning. So there wasn't like any sort of doors I had to go through in the beginning before I got in there. Like I just talked with a recruiter on the team and then like a manager on the team and so on. Microsoft was kind of similar to Amazon in the sense that you had to get your foot in

the door first. And then after that, you're kind of like interviewed among different teams. So in Microsoft, the recruiter I talked to specifically said, like, once you're in the door, you know, we want to find the perfect team for you. And so it was kind of an interesting twist sometimes on, you know, where I, Microsoft was kind of the one I had my foot in the door the longest in that they were one of the first companies I talked to. And I talked to three or four different teams, I think, with them. And still, I mean, I have a little bit of contact with the recruiter there.

I probably need to email her and tell her I finally got a job. She might have read about that on the internet already. Possibly. She did mention that she kind of did some research on me and knew I'd written some good blog posts. But yeah, so it's kind of, you know, in some ways, you know, they were all kind of the same. It just felt like 12,000 interviews. But in some ways, it was also kind of interesting that depending on the company and the process, I could still flop an interview and still be in the running, if you will. So a follow-up to that, did you find that your discussions with these companies changed your likelihood in one direction or the other of picking any of them for a project in the future? For example, did one of them have such a good

experience that you would definitely stand behind and give a shout out or a try to anything that they put out? And were other places so, I guess, off-putting that you'd have a hard time even bringing yourself to look at their logo again? That is an interesting question. I think a lot of people probably want to hear me say oh this interview is terrible i'm not ever going to work for or use the product of that company again and i don't think that's true i think that's unfortunate mudslinging always uh brings eyeballs and ear balls uh i'll do that on the next episode um i think in general i can look at it as in a lot of people are involved in a product and one team doesn't necessarily trash an entire product.

Like one team can be terrible, but they don't dictate an entire company. And especially with the big name tech companies, it's so dependent on each team. They're almost their own independent unit. Their culture is different. The way they work is different. They're not the same as every other team. So in terms of your Googles and your Amazons, your IBMs, I probably wouldn't choose or not choose their cloud products or any product they do based on my interviews.

I probably wouldn't. Microsoft, on the other hand, their interview that I had was actually pretty good with one of the teams. I really, it was probably one of my top three interviews, which is kind of interesting. And I probably would almost say I would want to go back and maybe

use their products more because of that. It seems to me that companies often lose sight of the idea that every interaction someone has with them, and especially as an interview candidate, it needs to be a two-way sale. They want even people they don't extend offers to to leave the conversation thinking, wow, that was such a good experience that I'll try again later, go for a different role, recommend them to my friends. And some companies tend to miss that entirely and approach it from a perspective of, we are a brand name tech company, you are a nobody. And that just leaves such a bitter taste in people's mouths that it becomes almost an

aversion to anything that company touches in the future. I think that large companies are getting away from that and coming to a realization that it's always a PR exercise. I mean, you wrote a blog post about this. If you had been profoundly mistreated by a company, I imagine that is a story you would have told, no? Yeah, there were definitely some interviews I went in and I was absolutely exhausted at the end. And then there were some I went in and like, well, it's been an all-day interview, but

that wasn't terrible. It was kind of fine. And I think the other thing they don't think about is when you get to the big name tech company, you have so many rounds of interviews. You talk to so many people. I probably talked to like Google six people in one day. Amazon probably like 10. I think Square had like another seven or eight. I talked to, you know, just it's not just like one person.

It's you're talking to so many people. And if one of those is bad, you bad, you can maybe shrug it off. But if several of those are bad, that's definitely an impression you can make on the company itself. But I've also found there were some interviews, I won't name companies for this one, but I would go into one interview and they would be like, wow, Sarah, you're really great. You know what you're doing. You're smart. You tackled that problem great.

We definitely need to have you. Let's move you on to the next round. And then I would go to the same company, talk to somebody else. And like, you clearly don't have the foggiest idea what you're doing. Have you ever touched code in your life? And I can't imagine that they're not training the interviewer people correctly. They're not holding the same kinds of standards for each level of interview, things like that. Because I don't think somebody with an amount of experience like I do, for instance,

I shouldn't have absolutely amazing 10 out of 10 stars, we need to hire you as soon as possible. And one out of 10 stars, you're terrible. Why did you even try and get here? There's no balance there. There's not, you know, I feel like it's just kind of thrown up in the air, kind of popcorn style and just like that you know how to write a for loop on a whiteboard. This has never struck me as a high signal means of interviewing. There are people who would vehemently dispute that. I think you're right. Companies need to focus on having a process for this that can remain consistent over time. And there's been some like, hey, let's go over, you know, write this thing that detects if you have two letters in a string that are matched together. That's a fairly simplistic problem. But then also have some that are like, let's build some really deep program that solves some really super quirky challenge that would really run into the six power time. But you can't run it like that.

You have to find the way we would do it at big name tech companies simpler and those are drastically different levels of challenges the one i've always been partial to is you have such a highly specific problem in an interview that you want to ask if i step outside and over to your engineering area, am I going to see them trying to solve this exact problem right now? Almost farming out your work to interview candidates. Yeah. And Google is an interesting thing. So I got to have lunch with somebody and I got to kind of free for all ask them whatever I wanted.

I didn't have it counted against me. One of the things I asked him was like, how long does your onboarding take? If you hired me tomorrow, how long would it take until I was familiar enough that I was kind of running on my own? And he was like, oh, months and months and months. It's like the questions they ask don't even kind of click in any way with the work they do. And I kind of feel like in some ways, your interview should be a good test of your skills where you're at at this moment. And whiteboard interviews don't do that. Whiteboard interviews are a lot like cram as much material as you can into your head and be able to regurgitate it on a whiteboard. And I'm like, I don't ever code like that, ever. Why am I not in front of a computer with an IDE working in my natural environment?

Because I think you would see I'm pretty good when you put me in my natural environment. When you take me into a weird space where I'm not doing anything like I normally do, there's no way I could possibly do as good as I normally could. Well, I can't speak for your workflow, Annie, but my preferred IDE is generally a whiteboard in front of a room full of very condescending people. Or how about a Google document? But I repeat myself. Yeah, exactly. So something that you posted on your online resume

jumped out at me as fascinating, specifically that you're currently focusing on learning both AWS and Azure. And the reason that that's interesting to me is that most people I sit down with and chat about technology for this podcast tend to be fairly steeped in cloud technology. You're an outlier in that you have an established set of technical credentials. You're obviously very competent, but you're new to these platforms. What's it like coming from a software development background into a world where there's so much foundational knowledge

that went into these things and history dating back 15 years that explains why these things are the way that they are. What's it like drinking from that fire hose? I think you just described tech in general. I don't think we can ever be up to date on everything all the time. You know, like we can only pick and choose a certain amount of things to be really, really, really experts in, but that constantly changes. I grew up learning

to program on a Commodore 64, and things have changed over time, and I've kept up with computers that have evolved, and nobody uses Commodore 64 Basic anymore. But, you know, I found in my normal jobs I wasn't getting a lot of the cool, trendy buzzwords anymore. But I found in my normal jobs, I wasn't getting all the cool trendy buzzwords anymore. And as somebody who's just loved programming in general, I just always thought it was cool and

fun. So I think there's a little bit for me, I just love being a sponge. I just kind of love learning new things. And even if I don't end up ever using it for good, like I just like that basic knowledge of, you know what, I've at least played with this for a week or something. And AWS and Azure both kind of came out of different reasons I wanted to start learning them. And then the reasons kind of went away for why I needed to actually use them anymore. But there's still an interesting way of, you know, I used to have to set up a physical server and install Linux and install all these software things on it. And then it changed where we can just have a virtual server. And, you know, still kind of the same process. I still didn't install software on it, but I didn't need the machine anymore.

And now we're kind of in this place like, well, you know, you can just run up a little virtual instance of just the tiny little thing that you need. So just a web server instead of a whole system. And, you know, it just kind of changed and evolved. And I think it helps me as a developer know, you know, I may not use these cloud services in my day-to-day life at the moment, but one, I might likely do that in the near future, which turns out I'm going to need some of this for my new job I got. But two, it just helps me know kind of the direction things are going. And I can at least be aware enough of them that I can adapt how I do things, how I program, how I learn other things. AWS kind of came along because I got a free, I think you could use it for a year and I was just kind of curious about it, but I was working with a Code for America

project and they're just like, this needs to deploy on AWS. That's just kind of the way it was written. And so I started playing with it with that, but then found out like, well, you know, I could use some of this for maybe like a side project or something. So I started learning into how does this all work and what in the heck isn't easy to, I don't know. And so kind of learned from that. And it was after one of my Microsoft interviews and it was for a cloud developer advocate position. And they were just like, we think you would be great for this position, but you just don't quite have the cloud knowledge that we need. So, you know, and they sort of dropped hints, like, if you could pick this up, we would definitely reconsider you. And so I had this

thought, like, yes, I will learn all the things Azure. And I think that lasted like three weeks. Not going anywhere for a while? Grab a Snickers. Yeah. And it turns out it's kind of exhausting when you're working and trying to find a new job and trying to learn an entire huge ecosystem of cloud things at the same time. Like, that's kind of exhausting. So I didn't

end up getting super terribly far on that. But you know, enough on both that I've spun up several instances of several different products. I've thrown up sample projects. I've tinkered with them. I've done things like that.

If I wasn't careful, they would probably start billing me because I've used enough of the trial things, things like that. So it's been, I would not call myself an expert on any of these things. But I definitely feel like just having the bare knowledge has helped me out a lot in terms of talking to other people and seeing other projects and how they work and you know just kind of being a better developer in general since you've started a job at arcadia you're a health care company i kind of want to correct you We're a technical company in the healthcare space. My apologies. But you're still subject to HIPAA regulation, correct? Yes. So how does that change how you view your work, both in the learning the new platform space, as well as how you approach your software engineering work? Often from the infrastructure side, oh, we're HIPAA regulated, which means the things we use are like normal cloud services,

but more depressing. I know I worked at a bank once, so there was definitely some concern about customer information and whatever, but I didn't end up on a team where that data was really passed by me. I usually ended up on these other little side things that I never really dealt with customer data. And this would be kind of the first time where my product I work on

will actually literally take this data and funnel it into other places. So I'm not really messing with the data, but it definitely does cross my path, if you will, or my team's path. And it's definitely an interesting thing that I now have to be a lot more conscious of, you know, the security and the safety of the data. And there is some thing about the cloud as sort of this magical world where something happens behind the scenes

and I don't totally know what it is. So I know I have to kind of learn a little bit how that works and just be more conscious of the, you know, healthcare data that we have? I don't know if this is totally answering the question or not. No, it certainly is. It's nice in some ways and challenging in others to work for a company where the data that you work with, the problems that you're solving have actual import for people. It's quite different to work for some trendy startup where

the entire business problem you solve is making it faster to get milk bones to your dog when the dog paws at a lever somewhere. And wait, just by saying that, I'm sure someone somewhere just raised an $8 million seed round for that exact thing. Hashtag business idea. Exactly. So it's quite different when there's a real business and there are consequences tied to that. Do you find that having a background yourself as a teacher and a mentor to other people who are learning new things changes how you go about learning new technologies?

Yeah. So when I was in my university, I ended up teaching some C++ labs and then eventually ended up teaching one of the lecture classes because one of the adjuncts dropped out at the last minute and they were just like, hey, Sarah, you can do this. Why don't you come teach this class?

So I sort of got thrown into it. Here catch, you've been voluntold exactly um well it was good it's kind of awesome to say i was the only undergrad that taught an undergrad class and through that one of the things i learned is that you know you kind of expect you can just throw a book at people like here learn go and they don't like that's everybody learned slightly differently and i found well partly found partly they told me that some of the learning styles there's definitely a visual one where seeing pictures seeing examples seeing things like that you know resonate with people more there's the kind of auditory way. So hearing people explain things, you know, like the visual may not work for you, but just hearing people talk about it,

hearing people explain things, you know, in words is a lot more helpful. And then there's kind of the kinesthetic, I believe is the term, which is where, you know, it's like you can see all the examples and stuff, but it really doesn't soak in. You actually just have to sit down and play with it. And, you know, people can also have like little combinations of both. I think I'm more visual and kinesthetic. If I just listen to audio alone, like it just doesn't go anywhere. So as I've tried to teach people things in workshops and classes and stuff that I've done, I've tried to make sure there's at least a little bit of each of those. Partly one to keep the interest going, but partly two so that they actually do learn something when they're done

with whatever I'm showing them. And I think for learning these new things, they're definitely, you know, there's all sorts of resources out there in the world now. There's videos, there's books, there's little shorter tutorial things. Sometimes the products themselves have little tutorials in them too. I think it's better when we do have all of those because I think there's sometimes... Cloud things aren't easy to pick up. I found this out because I've tried both with AWS and Azure to just go in and be like, I'm smart, I'll figure this out

and just kind of leave going, I don't have a clue what these things are. Oh yeah, when I first started with AWS myself, I pulled up the console and oh my stars, what are all of these services? I'm never going to learn all these. And there were 12. Now there's 120 of them. Let's read the fine print. Oh my God, that's not fine print. And I can't imagine coming to it as someone new to this today. So do you have any pearls of wisdom around how someone who's new to this space and getting overwhelmed by what they see could think about it? How to approach learning even where to learn, where to start? That's a difficult challenge for people who are trying to find their way through a very confusing forest.

Yeah. So it kind of helps if you have a direction you want to go. So for me, I knew eventually, like one, I would have this kind of website thing I wanted to do. For another, I had this idea for like an IoT kind of thing I wanted to build. And so I knew for those, like eventually I would probably need to use, like if I was going to Azure, I'd need to use the IoT Hub. Turns out that needed

to use service queues, so I'd have to learn that. And then if I hooked it up to a Raspberry Pi, there's a Raspberry Pi IoT edition of Windows that I have to install, and that has to connect to Azure. So I knew there was these pieces, but obviously those would be really difficult to probably start on.

So if I could start off with something simple, like how do I take a super bare-bones website and just throw it up on AWS, Azure, Google Cloud, things like that. So if I could start with the simpler things and learn the basics of those, just how do I spin up an instance? How do I upload things onto it? Do I use Git? Do I use FTP? Do I use whatever?

Those kind of help the whole thing make more sense because they're not, like we just said, the clouds are not easy to use right off the bat. AWS, I think, was just overwhelmed at terminology and just all the abbreviations. What the heck is an EC2 or an S3 or blah, blah, blah. Oh, if you ever want to destroy Amazon as a company, all you have to do is give them a puppy and tell them it's their responsibility to name it. That will paralyze them for six months. I love that. And as I jumped into Azure, I'm like, oh, all this stuff makes sense. But as I started to configure things, I don't have the idea what a resource group is. Is this important? Is this just a name? And some of these things had to be unique to me and some of them had to be unique to the world. Like, how do I come up with a name that nobody else in the entire planet has used before? That's fun. Or something. And, you know, it's like once I found the basic tutorials

of bare bones website, launch it, you know, get some code on it, like Git push or whatever. The whole thing made a lot more sense because a lot of the configuration is just kind of fairly standard throughout the entire product, but just overwhelming at first. So if you can get over the first big hurdle,

everything else makes a heck of a lot of sense. I think all the IoT stuff I was trying to learn with Azure, I could just kind of dive in and almost not need tutorials anymore. Once I knew the basics of just like, how do I spin up a database? How do I spin up a web service? All these things. I mean, I still did need the tutorial, but I was skimming a lot more than reading. In the beginning, I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing. Where's my teddy bear? Yeah, there's always been a fun trick that I've been able to play on people, which is I will make up an AWS service and some fictitious thing that it does,

and people would not question me on it. The tipping point came when I'm now able to do that to AWS employees. Oh my gosh. It's too broad and vast. One of the tips that I like to give people is just focus on the things that are directly relevant to what you're working on and don't worry about the rest. You'll get there when the time comes. Some services go incredibly deep and are vast and will take weeks.

Others you can pick up in a couple hours because it doesn't matter all that much. Yeah. And I mean, the idea of the cloud is that it's worldwide. It's kind of this magical, infinite size of power and space and all these things. And you can't have, like, you almost can't make that simple. You just can't do it. And so, you know, that unfortunately ends up, the configuration is complex and the number of different service points you have is complex. And so, yeah, definitely, like you said, just you have to kind of start super simple.

And once you can get over that like you said, just you have to kind of start super simple. And once you can get over that, you know, bare minimum, then the rest will make a lot more sense and can slowly pick those up better. But I definitely don't recommend doing what I did and sort of diving in the multiple clouds at the same time. The benefit is I learned they're all just as complex as the other one. But, you know, then everything starts to kind of blend together. And so I would recommend learning one at a time. No, and I think you're right. There's no silver bullet when it comes to these things. And even with the providers competing with each other and learning from the stumbles of others, I don't think that there's a clear track silver bullet answer.

There's no, oh, just learn GCP or Azure or Oracle Cloud and all these problems go away. There's complexity all the way down in all of these things. One of the more important themes I like to touch on from time to time is that if you're feeling overwhelmed by the cloud, it's not your fault. This is something that all of us feel constantly. Yeah, definitely. And the other thing is, you all of us feel constantly yeah definitely and the other thing is you know to say one is better than the other i think at this point is moot because like aws is better well you remember last year when their service went down and then nobody knew because their status service was also ran on aws um like well google's better well google also

like anytime anything Google goes down, you know, people are just like, Oh my God, I don't know what to do with my life. I can't work. And, you know, it's like, they all have their problems and they're all going to go down at some point. There's no perfect reliability ever. Everything is terrible. Everything is terrible. So thank you so much for taking time to chat with me a bit about your experience. Where can people find you? I pretty much live on the internet. Almost everywhere is Geeky Girl Sarah.

So Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc, etc. You can also geekygirlsarah.com is my blog. And you can check that out. I don't feel like I ever write anything of super use. But apparently every so often I have something that comes along that's kind of awesome. Like I got a new job post that I just wrote. That apparently is helpful.

And yeah, I love connecting with people. I am not just one of those like people that tweets a whole bunch of things. I like asking questions and engaging with people. So definitely come find me, send me a things. I like asking questions and engaging with people. So definitely come find me, send me a tweet. I'll definitely get back to you. And I'll throw links to all those things in the show notes. Thank you all for

listening, and thank you for coming, Sarah. Thank you very much. My name is Corey Quinn. This is Screaming in the Cloud. This has been this week's episode of Screaming in the Cloud. You can also find more Corey at screaminginthecloud.com or wherever fine snark is sold.