Screaming in the Cloud - re:Inventing re:Invent with Pete Cheslock

Episode Date: April 22, 2021

About PetePete is a recovering system administrator who got his start with AWS services back in 2009 while at Sonian, the first cloud-based email archiving platform. As one of the earliest and largest users of AWS, Pete ran technical operations and brought DevOps theory into action. Pete has worked for other companies such as Dyn, Threat Stack, and CHAOSSEARCH, managing large scale AWS deployments. A frequent speaker at DevOps and Observability events, Pete brings a product mindset to SaaS operations. Outside of work he spends his free time smoking meats and tweeting about the results.Links:Twitter: https://twitter.com/petecheslock

Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at the Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud. Join me on April 22nd at 1 p.m. Eastern Time or 10 a.m. in the one true Pacific Coast time zone for a webcast on cloud and Kubernetes failures, like there's another kind, and successes, apparently there

are other kinds, in a multi-everything world. Oh God, what are they making me do now? I'll be joined by Fairwinds president Kendall Miller. Oh, that explains it. And their solution architect, Ivan Fetch, will discuss the importance of gaining visibility into this multi-everything cloud native world, and I will make fun of them relentlessly. For more info and to register, visit www.fairwinds.com slash Corey. Oh god, it makes it look like I work there now. That's C-O-R-E-Y, the E is critical, and tell them exactly what you think of them, because I sure will. Talk to you on April 22nd at 10am in the One True Pacific time zone. The Apps on Cloud Summit, hosted by Turbonomic,

is a new action-packed, not a conference, happening May 11th through 13th online. It's for everyone who makes applications in the cloud run screaming, from IT leaders to DevOps pros to you folks, whoever you might be. Take a break from screaming into the cloudy void with me to learn from some of the best of people who actually know what they're doing, like Kelsey Hightower, AWS blogger John Meyer, and also me, because apparently they didn't listen to me saying I had no idea what I was doing. Register now at Thanks again to Turbonomic for sponsoring this ridiculous podcast. Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. For the third year in a row, I am joined by who is now my colleague, Pete Cheslock. Pete, thanks for coming back. It's great to be here yet again,

although under different circumstances than our normal post-Reinvent extravaganza. Oh, yes. So every year for those who have not been following this show since its inception, Pete and I get together to more or less kibitz around what happened at reInvent. We would have done this in December, but then they put up on their website, three more days happening in January. And okay, we'll wait until after that happens. And guess what happened? Nothing. They did some additional breakout sessions, and that's it. So honestly, it was a giant waste of everyone's time,

kind of like, you know, the sponsor expo hall at a digital event. Yeah, can we start on that topic? Do you want to start on the digital event aspect or the crappy expo hall? Oh, I want to start with the expo hall because I am a former sponsor of reInvent many, many times over. Again, I've been very lucky. I've worked in the cloud world. So I've been to pretty much all the reInvents except for one. I'm not sure we're going to count this year. But for almost all of those reInvents, I was in the Expo Hall as part of a sponsor, whether it was the company I was working at or whatever. But we were either part of that process of setting up a booth and shilling our wares to all these

tech folks that are there. And the experience has been different. Everything from like, you build your own booth, here's a square, just put whatever you want there, which I think was hilarious in the early days, to the, nope, just give us a picture of what you want behind your booth. This year, though, it's a weird digital thing. I guess they sent some VR things around there. I'm not sure if you heard of that. Oh, they did it only for the heroes, not for anything sponsor expo hall stuff. Now, let's begin and say that I have a fair bit of sympathy, kind of, because 2020, weird year, pandemic is not something you generally plan for when scheduling events out years in advance. And there we have it, where it's

suddenly there's really no other option. Now, AWS absolutely dragged its feet embarrassingly long before announcing it would be digital only. I think it was October when they finally said, all right, or damn near it, all right, it's going to be a virtual event, to which the rest of the industry said, no kidding. But until they actually come out and say that, you can't bank on it. How do you plan for that? I mean, I remember just a few years ago going through the process while I was still at Chaos Search to set up a sponsorship for reInvent. You know, people start that process in March, April timeframe. They start thinking about the strategizing it.

They start locking in their deposits because the sooner you get a deposit in, the earlier you can pick your booth location. And that's a big part. You want it to be not in the way far back that no one can find you. You want it to be somewhere near a good walkway. So there's a lot of planning that goes in. So pushing it back so late, I mean, I don't know. Do you think that they had this belief that they were going to do an

in-person event? My honest belief, to be very frank, and I say this in my capacity as Gadfly, not in my capacity as self-appointed head of marketing for AWS, is that I think that they just were facing a whole bunch of cancellation fees, because when you book something like that, it's expensive. They're frugal, and I feel like for once they were on the side of a contract that there was no winning move to get out of. And I feel like there was just some bitterness around that. They were hoping for a miracle and finally had to face reality. That's my gut feeling. I have no inside track on that because although I call myself the head of AWS marketing, they don't agree, which is fine

though, because given their messaging or lack of saying, I don't need their agreement to be effective in the role. Exactly. I mean, I think what's most impressive to see is that they still provided an event that people attended. People watched the videos they took part in. They did a bunch of different, you know, kind of vehicles and using things like Twitch and this VR thing for the expo hall as a little silly as it is. At least they tried, right? They tried something new in this new world that we have been living in. It was definitely an experience. We're starting with the Expo Hall, though. I did a virtual walkthrough of the Expo Hall, and I made fun of things, as I typically do in the real one, but it was hard to find. A bunch of people didn't realize it existed three weeks in, and what shocked me was the sheer level of enthusiastic outreach I got from some of the sponsor booths I visited. I got phone calls from vendors asking if they can help me with various solutions.

It's, no, no, I was just there to make fun of you, at which point is a very surreal conversation for an account rep to have when they don't know who I am and what my nonsense looks like. But it was, they had so few leads coming in that they were just really focusing on everyone that showed up. And I feel for them. Yeah. The problem is that they paid top dollar for these things and got, I gotta be honest with you, remarkably little.

The minimum buy was something like 35 grand for a tiny little booth and it went up to 125 plus a whole bunch of extras. And I'm looking at this and my own re-invent sponsorship nonsense that works super well for sponsors. And I'm sitting here going, I really need to start charging more. My God. Yeah. We just think about that for a second is that in normal re-invent, you know, your booth size is priced differently. If you want a small booth, like 10 by 10 foot, you'll pay a certain amount of money. A 20 by 20 booth is a lot more money. It makes sense.

It's a square footage, you know, situation here. But we're talking about like computer bits, right? You know, they're like, yeah, well, you can get the small digital booth for 30,000 or the large double-decker digital booth for 150. Oh, yeah. One of my favorite personal experiences, whenever I talk to a company about sponsoring,

their initial position is usually always the same. You're a jerk. You made fun of us on Twitter. You roasted us. Why on earth would we ever pay you for sponsorships? And my response was, look, let me level with you here. I get up there and make fun of you. And no one in the world is going to stop doing business with you because I said something

snarky and sarcastic, but they absolutely will hear of you for the first time. And then the penny drops and it goes one of two ways. It's either you're an ass, no, or it's, oh my God, you're right. Have some money. And it's really an interesting experience watching that transformation take place. I used to think that I was, I don't know, somehow fooling people with this. I'm not.

It has the benefit of being completely true. Yeah, I mean, sometimes, you know, all news is good news. You know, anything that you say, you're just gonna make a joke about someone's product and or their marketing strategy because every marketing strategy is a little stupid from time to time.

But, you know, you look at it and you go, yeah, this is pretty stupid. And then you say that to other people and they're like, oh, I've never heard of that company. What do they do? And at the very least, it's that opportunity for them to go to the site and be like, I don't know what that company does. Like do and at the very least it's that opportunity for them to go to this site and be like i don't know what that company does like let me go look at it and sure

i may spend about five seconds on your site but you've got that free that free impression you've got that opportunity like i hope your site is good enough to have a clear statement of what you are because i'm going to give you about five seconds but still you know that just mentioning it i'm going to be like oh who are they let me go check. Well, the expo hall was on the other side of that. They had these mini sites built up. My personal favorite was in week three, I went to a vendor and clicked on their mini site and it's 404 because they were hosting like some virtual drink up the week before when it was done. They just packed up their booth and left. You spent an awful lot of money not to, you know, drive me to your website. I just don't pretend

to understand marketing, or at least that's what I thought. It turns out that no, just some companies are really bad at it. What I do is not over everyone. I get that. But it makes an otherwise dry subject area kind of fun, at least to me. Yeah, I've always, I'm a weird person. So I enjoy reInvent mostly because reInvent is what you make of it. It's always been that case. Even the very first re-invent, which feels quaint by comparison to some of the more recent ones, where I think there was maybe 4,000 people, 6,000 people at the first one. I'd love to find the answer to that one.

It was small though. It was very small. And moving on to the more recent years of reInvent, how just big they've gotten. You know, I've always liked the expo hall. I've liked walking around. I mean, granted, being in this industry, oftentimes many of my friends are working the booths as well. Like, I will be working the booth for a while. People will come by and my friends will be working the booths and I'll stop by and say hello. But mostly, it's a really great opportunity to just see what's out there. Like, there is so much stuff. It's hard to follow everything around. I

mean, just following, right, Corey? Following just the Amazon ecosystem is a full-time job. Following the surround sound, it's nearly impossible. So I've always liked the Expo Hall. I like walking around. I like to see what people are saying. I like to see things that are, what are they doing? You know, what problems are they solving? And it's a great way to just get that like kind of streamlined process. You get to see so much in such a short amount of time. It's absolutely one of my favorite parts of the show is walking around the Expo hall. It's a natural meeting place for people. I've got to be honest, I don't go to too many sessions just due to the fact that there's better uses of my time than standing in line for two hours to make sure I get a seat.

So it's a natural gathering point. It's a great way to catch up with people you only get to see once a year. And you get to see what the zeitgeist is, what people are talking about. You can see whose booth is slammed and who's not. And you can fool yourself into thinking it's about the quality of their product rather than the quality of their swag. But it's an experience. And on the one hand, I'm sad to miss it. On the other, I had so many more productive conversations this year. There were so many aspects of it that I don't miss,

like the conference crud where you get the flu every time because you have a lot of people in a small space. And there's this sense of having to fit everything into one week. Instead, they've now expanded it to three weeks, which on the one hand, okay, I actually like the fact that it can be a more measured pace. On the other, exactly who do they believe can get three full weeks off from work to sit around and watch videos in a browser? Yeah, that was a big concern when I started looking at some of the reInvent stuff. And even for us, we follow a lot of the Amazon ecosystem. I didn't even get to take part of a lot of this Amazon reInvent activities as much as I wanted to, because, you know, we have clients that we want to service and make sure that their needs are met. So, you know, just for us who spend so much time I wanted to, because we have clients that we want to service and make sure that their needs are met. So just for us who spend so much time in this ecosystem, we really could only dedicate so many people to understanding what all these changes are

and staying up on it. I will say that the one thing that tips my entire assessment event over into the positive, and I want to see aspects of this going forward, is how accessible the whole thing became, where we suddenly have a scenario where it's not just restricted to people who, one, can drop two grand or damn near it on a ticket, two, can afford to travel to and stay within Las Vegas for a week, and three, can get the time off from work to do it. Suddenly, the only prerequisite was has an internet connection. It's so true. I mean, let's not kid anyone out there. Like, it's a boondoggle. It is 100% a boondoggle.

It is a week in Vegas. And I know there's a bunch of people out there that are like, oh, I hate going to reInvent. I hate Vegas. And yeah, I can understand that some people just don't enjoy it. I'm a weird person. I actually like Vegas. I'm weird. But people go and they enjoy it because even if you hate all of the noise and the smoke and the gambling and the whatever, and you have to walk an hour to get any place, The people there, though, and the connections that you can make. I mean, I meet new people every year at reInvent, which at an event

that is so large, kind of feels counterintuitive. Like it's so large, you almost feel lost in a sea of people. But yet somehow it's like I still run into people. I meet up with someone for coffee. And, you know, they're maybe back to back with meetings. Oh, do you know this person? I get to meet new Amazon folks and I get to actually see a lot of friends. And, you know, again, maybe we're all just missing that personal connections of conferences. But on the flip side, I really enjoyed not having to go to Vegas this year, even without a pandemic. It was really nice to not have to, you know, spend a week and come home sick and tired and exhausted. There's something amazing about being able to do it at your own pace. Now, again, because Amazon is willing to be misunderstood for long periods

of time, which is used as an excuse to completely abdicate any actual marketing work for the most part, it means that I instead had to guess what was going to happen going in. So, all right, I committed to doing a daily email roundup four days of the week. I committed to doing a bunch of live streams and such. And what I didn't realize was it was going to be a stop-start thing where there would be a whole bunch of releases one day and then there'd be nothing the following day.

So I was sort of left on some of those empty days of kind of holding the bag of, here's something you might not have caught yesterday, and I'm digging deep into the barrels. There was a minor change to an SDK in a language no one has ever heard of. And the funnest thing is about AWS is that people just assume someone's going to care about that.

They won't, but, oh, that one just must not be for me. So it was a little challenging from a content management perspective. I would absolutely want to see that done differently or at least telegraphed in advance next year. So this is an interesting topic where obviously the last 12 months has been interesting for the conference world. I know a lot of more local conferences are kind of already writing off the year. Maybe some are holding off to see if maybe the end of the year we reach enough vaccines and things get better. But I mean,

Amazon had reInvent. It was small. Then it expanded. Then they broke out these summits, right? They had these city regional summits. Then they did like... Having gone to a bunch of those summits, it turns out they're all basically kind of the same thing. And I went to my third one back in 2019 or so that year, and it was, hey, that's the same joke in all the keynotes. And then it's like, oh, right, most people are not nuts and don't travel around the world like some sort of ridiculous groupie for a rock band going to all of the AWS summits.

I have problems, but it's fun. Yeah, again, as someone who has worked at a lot of these booths and had to go to them, it's always a little painful when you're at the Santa Clara Convention Center, which is in the middle of nowhere. There's nothing around there. There's nothing to do.

And there's like a Bennigan's. I think you can go get some dinner at when you're done for the day. And you finish up and you're chatting with folks and then you're like, you know, get some dinner out when you're done for the day. And, you know, you finish up and you're chatting with folks and then you're like, oh, so you're going to be at the Toronto one? Be like, oh yeah, I'll be there.

I'll see you in a few weeks. Like, it's just, it's the saddest thing. Yeah, it really is. Then they also expanded Beyond Summits though into Reinforce, which is security. And that was a summer event in 2019 and they were hoping to do it in 2020 and canceled it. And supposedly it's going to be coming back.

We don't know when. I like the idea of being able to break out the security focused stuff into its own event because the biggest problem I've always had with reInvent is that it doesn't know what it wants to be. Is it a thing that's for new product releases? Is it a chance to have a bunch of executive briefings between big customer execs and Amazon folks? Is it a vendor expo hall where people get to shill their wares? Is it a

partner gathering so all the partners can learn how things work? What's going on there? And what is it about? And is it a big party? Is it just effectively a chance for a bunch of people to get on stage and talk about what they're working on? And the answer is, to all that is yes and more. Yeah, exactly. There is an identity problem for reInvent. I think they have been doing a decent enough job of trying to break things out to make kind of that reInvent, you know, knowledge transfer a little bit more accessible with they're all free to these regional summits. These are free events people can just go to and consume a lot of this content and workshops and things like that. The breaking out of the security stuff, I think, was great. Hilariously, I had not been working at a security company when that happened, but I had heard rumors that the sponsorships were all invite-only. There are so

many security companies that Amazon was like, we can't take all of your money for this. So we're going to invite you in to cloud or multi-cloud environments, and that's not even counting IoT. ExtraHop automatically discovers everything inside the perimeter, including your cloud workloads and IoT devices, detects these threats up to 35% faster, and helps you act immediately. Ask for a free trial of Detection and Response for AWS today at extrahop.com slash trial. What was also bizarre was that at Reinforces Expo Hall, it was only security companies. And that was something I didn't fully understand until you just said that. Because I was annoyed that, well, there's no monitoring companies here or anything else. Does it not occur to folks that maybe people who care about AWS security

might also have other needs in the cloud computing space? There aren't too many people who have blinders on that restrict them specifically to security and only security. Oh, does monitoring too? I'm not interested. I think that's got to be a hard challenge as a security vendor if you're at an event. And I've never been to RSA and RSA must be just the exact same way. But, you know, how many different companies there do like threat detection or like most of them? It's the same product with different logos on as you walk up and down the halls. It's there are occasionally unique and

interesting things, but there are few and far between. Yeah, exactly. So I'm most curious to see where Amazon goes with reInvent, because I think what this year is giving them is an opportunity to maybe find a better identity for what do they want reInvent to be. And look, if the answer is, we want it to be a big celebration of everyone who uses this, whose job is impacted by it, who makes money off of it, who etc, etc, then great, then that's the event. But there are going to be people like there might be partner network people. Well, we don't really want to just go to the party. But we want to get all the updates because our businesses are fully dependent on this, right? So then maybe do they break that out? So I don't know. Do they start breaking reInvent out into more focused things like they did with

security? Would it take away from the overall feeling? I don't know. It's a weird problem. I don't know how to solve it because without understanding what the event is intended to be, it's really hard to guide it. They get on stage and they say, reInvent is really, it's not a sales conference. It's not a release conference. It's an education conference,

which is shorthand for, we have absolutely no idea what this is. It's so true. The early reInvents were, all right, let's hear the latest price cuts for Amazon. Like, tell us how much cheaper S3 is and tell us how much cheaper EC2 is. It was like clockwork.

That was what it was about. And it was about new software releases. Weirdly enough, though, the software announcements they did back then were all things that you could get then. They were like, hey, we're announcing these new instances available today. They almost didn't have to say available today because, like, of course, why would you announce it if you can't get it? You're right. It seems like half the releases that are big headline stuff was available in preview.

And you know what that means. They're setting it up for them to just get dragged whenever they pull a time stream. And yes, we're announcing it in private preview. It'll be available soon. Then two years go by. And it's pretty clear when you see that kind of delay that something happened. And credit where due. Because they're Amazon, I prefer that they get it right before launching it rather than launching something that isn't great and then we're stuck with it forever. But if you're still that early on, don't announce it. Announce things that aren't vapor. Yeah. And I'd like to think there's a strategy to it, but there probably isn't. It's probably just more of like a, well, this is a great way for us to

identify other customers who might also want to use this, and maybe they want to be part of the preview. And I don't know, it's a little frustrating, I will say. But things come out and you're like, I really want to use that. And it's like, yeah, no, that's not for you. Yeah, and that's the challenge too, I think, from a marketing perspective. They do so many different releases of what's coming out, how they're going to be talking to satellites in orbit or talking to manufacturing floors or whatever it is that they're talking about, that every company or who they are or what they do, look at that and think, huh, that's not what we do. Therefore, AWS is not for me. And AWS as a company is basically an alien organism compared to going down the path of any other company that can't really walk and chew gum at

the same time. If, I don't know, if Apple, for example, starts doing a big push into filling potholes as a primary function, I'd look at that and think, oh, okay, they're pretty clearly not focused on the Mac in some respect. I mean, look at what they did to their laptops for years with the Thunderbolt, the Touch Bar, the crappy keyboards, et cetera. Yeah, it's clear that they can't focus on the iPhone and the Mac at the same time effectively,

or they just hate their customers. Don't email me. But what I don't see is any ability of companies other than Amazon to be able to focus and execute across this many different things. It's hard to contextualize. So it's very easy for the messaging takeaway to be, it's not for me. Yeah, and maybe that ties into the reinvent identity problem because, you know, you've got Andy Jassy on stage talking about look out for whatever this new service that's going to ruin your Amazon bill.

You know, it's like warehouse logistics stuff, which, yeah, cool. I'm sure that that solves a big problem in the industry. But I'm a DevOps engineer, and I want to hear more about EKS, right? And I have to sit through learning about this predictive whatever for my warehouse that I don't have? Does that just become too off-putting? And do I just then zone out and kind of ignore all these other interesting things that could be happening? It's unclear. And that's the biggest problem I think that they're failing to educate people on. Specifically, every service is for someone. No service is for everyone. And that is a difficult thing to hold on to. We've long since passed a point where anyone can hold all the services in their head. We've gotten to a point where even I don't always pick up a fake

service someone slips in to see if I know if it exists or not. It's expanded too far too quickly. And okay, that's fine. But the messaging strategy has to change. The marketing strategy has to change. Your entire go-to-market has to change. Yeah, Amazon is really good at running things. I mean, that's what they're good at. It's operationalizing software. And they continue to find things that people don't want to run anymore. I don't blame them. I don't want to run things. I'm a cloud economist. I look at bills. I don't want to run Elasticsearch anymore. I don't want to deal with Cassandra and get paged at 2am. I really want someone else to deal with that stuff. And just think about all of the

other verticals, all the other businesses that exist out there with the same people who are having the same complaints. Just insert different words like, I really hate my business intelligence solution. I really hate these Excel spreadsheets that are always locked. There must be a better way, right? And it turns out Amazon's like, yeah, you know, I got you. Yeah, the idea that Amazon is equally good across all of these different offerings

is a bit of a red herring. There are things that they excel at and there are things that they struggle at. I often shorthand that to the infrastructure pieces, the plumbing, they're phenomenal at. Anything that requires a user interface or is SaaS, they are hilariously bad at. Honeycode. And most things are somewhere on the spectrum between those two points. And there are exceptions in both directions, but by and large, the more it looks like a big computer rented by the hour, the better the offering is. Would you agree or disagree with that?

Yeah, I definitely agree. I think the thing that was most surprising in the recent Kinesis outage was just how intertwined Amazon services are internally, AWS services, and how internally the engineers at AWS are building on top of AWS. It's a weird Russian nesting doll issue where it's just turtles, on turtles. And it's fascinating. And I wonder if the services which are most used internally as well become those services that are the most stable, the most well-supported, most features coming in. Does Amazon build for Amazon first and they consider themselves a big customer, then theoretically they're building as well for some of those features. But of course, they build for everyone. They build for the startup that has two EC2 servers, and then they build for the federal government who wants to beam some bits using ground station. Who else is going

to use that service? Yeah, it feels like there's like five companies out there that might need it, and the rest of us are, yeah, I don't currently have any satellites in orbit this quarter that I need to speak to, so it's probably not for me. I will say that every time I meet someone who's about to go to AWS as an employee, they're super excited because they're going to see how it works internally and come out understanding of this Google-like system that is decades ahead of anything else on how they run their stuff operationally. And then a few months go by, and I catch up with them again, and they look haunted. There is no enthusiasm for it at all.

Their voice shakes. They tremble a bit. Frequently, they've developed a drinking problem. And they don't ever talk about it. But what I've managed to piece together is there's no magic secret sauce. It's the same nonsense that you would see anywhere else, but they excel at the operational aspects of all of it, and that's what makes it work. I think what actually happens is they find the truth of the M1 medium and the first EC2 instance. And they're so horrified that those are still running that they can just not come back from the brink. I didn't know it was a Raspberry Pi. I think you are totally right. I mean, every

place largely is the same. It's just, it's got its own history that has framed how everything is. And if you're on the inside, and especially if you've been at Amazon for many years, you're financially incentivized to love that place. I mean, if I had a lot of stock grants that were granted many years ago and the stock continues to climb,

like, yeah, this is the best place I've ever been. Like, what are you talking about? You know, as they look around and everything is on fire or who knows what. As they walk past the conference room filled with people crying. You know, it's, I don't know, what is it? Stockholm syndrome?

Is that the term? You just accept it and you get used to it and you get comfortable with it. And yeah, in rare scenarios, there's folks that I know that have been there for a long time and they're there. I hate to say they're there for the mission. They're not. They're there because of the challenge, because technically what they get to work on is cutting edge. I don't know if that's the case for every new service and feature. If you

were someone who was working on, you know, making quick site graphs look better versus like the Nitro hypervisor. Maybe depending on who you are, one of those is more thrilling than the others. I don't really know. But obviously, there seems to be two type of Amazon employee. One who sticks around for their year, gets that bonus, or at least doesn't get the clawback they need. And the others who stick around for many, many, many years, right? It's, I think, a different company depending on who you are.

That is increasingly the vibe I'm getting from feedback I've gotten to blog posts, people yelling at me, people saying that, oh, my assessment of how compensation works at Amazon is either spot on or completely inaccurate. And both of those groups

are being fully sincere when they say it. But that's a conversation for another time. Pete, thank you for joining me. We will do a second episode in the very near future talking about the actual releases of reInvent 2020. But thank you for joining me. For those who are unfamiliar with your amazing work, where can they find you? You can find me at Pete Cheslock on Twitter. It's probably the best place. It is a mixture of smoked meats and technology hot takes. Thank you, as always. It's a pleasure. Pete Cheslock, cloud economist at the Duckbill Group. That's me. I'm cloud economist Corey

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