ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - AHSOKA Finale: Review and Theories! - What's Next For Ezra and Baylan?

Episode Date: October 6, 2023

ScreenCrush Rewind tackles all the movie and TV hot topics, offering reviews and analysis of Marvel, Star Wars, and everything you care about right now. Hosted by Ryan Arey, and featuring a panel of industry professionals. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ezra? Hi, Hera. Hey, welcome back Screen Crush. I'm Ryan Erie, and I want to talk to you guys about the finale of Asoka. I didn't love it. I mean, there is a lot to love in there, but I also felt let down for reasons that I'm going to explain in a little bit. And after this episode, I think I know 100% what is in store for Ezra in the Dave Filoni movies. And a little later, I'm going to talk to Heather Antos and Colton Ogburn to get their thoughts on this show. But first, I got to give you my take. So for me, this show's been kind of a weird mixed bag. Like as a Star Wars fan and as a Star Wars

Rebels fan, I loved getting to return to this galaxy. I always do. But this was a weird narrative, guys. I mean, my favorite part of the show has actually been the discourse with all of you. Which reminds me, thanks for making our Asoka coverage such a success. And for all of you checking out our brand new merch store with Asoka inspired merch at screencrushmerch.com, where we design the shirts ourselves and we have items like The Apprentice Lives, Master and Apprentice Family Tree, and the Grand to Admiral Polo, say no to death sticks, and many, many more. The merch store link is in the description. Thank you guys once again. First, I want to talk about what I liked about the finale, because there's a lot to like about this show. No matter what show you're watching,

Star Wars is always going to be awesome. And I think the Star Wars that's getting made under Disney is, like, on a technical level, the best Star Wars we have ever seen. Fight choreography was great. Maybe a little bit too clean because, like, I prefer the raw intensity we saw on the Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker, but still great. Like, Disney Star Wars has achieved this mix of practical and visual effects that is so seamless. I think they're just eventually going to be filming these things on the holodeck. I mean, the show looks amazing. Also, I have not been shy about how much I don't like Ezra as a character in Star Wars Rebels. I think his presence undermines the meaning of Luke Skywalker's journey, being the Last Jedi, and I also think he's annoying and

not funny. What would you want to be a young man? Jabba the Hunt. But in this show, I liked him. He's older, less annoying, and actually made me laugh. Don't you want to take us as prisoners? As prisoners. He kind of exudes this like sloppiness and charm of Han Solo, which is really fun to see in a Jedi Knight. Yeah, but how is he going to fit into the Star Wars galaxy and Luke's Jedi Temple? Well, Doug, I got a theory on that that I'm going to talk about after I hear from Colton and Heather. I also love, love. I love Thron. So what if he's the devil, Rick? At least the devil has a job. He is exactly as I imagined him on the page, and this depiction of him picks up right where rebels left off.

And this episode, we actually get to see Thron a little rattled. Thron has only ever been defeated once. By Jedi Magic, he did not understand. I mean, he is willing to bring down the Knight Sister Palace just to stop two people from boarding his ship. And I love the idea that a United Three Jedi Front is unstoppable, like they're monsters at the gates. We got this same feeling in the opening scene of the Phantom Menace,

when the Nemoids can't keep the Jedi at bay. They are still coming through. I mean, overall, the show is gorgeous and so well-constructed. I just wish the scripts were well-constructed. constructed too. Person, I gotta ask, where did you get those fetching new models on the countertop? Ah, well buddy, I'm glad you asked. These are not models. These are 4D builds. The new 3D puzzle model kit from Spendmaster and I am thrilled to have them as a sponsor of this video. I love these puzzles. Look, they are incredibly light and sturdy and they look fantastic on a shelf.

And unlike other 3D puzzles, I've tried to assemble, they're very fun to put together. Like, look at the Millennium Falcon here. They're made from these cardstock puzzle sheets and every model comes with instructions, so you can concentrate on building instead of getting frustrated looking for missing pieces. The instructions are so easy to follow with letters, bumpers, and color dots to make sure they connect in all the right places. So how long does it take, like six or seven days, a couple weeks? Not at all. Smaller models like the Starth Vader take two to three hours to build, and bigger builds like the Star Destroyer or the Death Star take just six to seven hours. I put on a copy of New Hope and then just binge the trilogy while I put it together.

But really, I love the sturdiness and the level of detail on these models. They look great on your shelf and you can actually pick them up and play with them. Oh, okay, so what is that? Like a few hundred bucks? This one? This one's $60. No way. Way. They are incredibly affordable and one of my favorite products we've ever had on the channel. They also have Marvel, Harry Potter, and many more. Now, these are available at Amazon and Target and links are in the description.

Check them out. You won't regret it. Now, back to Asoka. I also like that in this episode, we finally understand the relationship between Asoka and Sabine. Remember, the two of them never really interacted in Star Wars Rebels, and Sabine never displayed any force sensitivity. So when this show started, we had no idea like what their prior relationship was. And that's not always a bad thing, by the way. A show can pick up in the middle of a story and leave the audience wondering what the hell happened. But in this case, it just was not effective. When we found out that Asoka walked away from Sabine, I mean, I was curious about why. But because they did not have a prior relationship, I didn't really care that much. Like,

it would have been different if Hera and Sabine were estranged because, like, I saw them be friends and interact for years. The thing is, the story of their relationship, is really good. Mandelor was destroyed. Sabine was orphaned. Asoka felt the darkness within her. And this triggers Asoka's fears about her apprentice turning into Anakin. But the problem is all of that cool character study and backstory was like buried underneath this show's narrative. Even when Asoka meets Aniken and the world between worlds, all of her fears have been subtexts and the average viewer who is meeting Asoka for the first time has no idea that she has Survivor's guilt. So her resolution with Anakin kind of seemed to come out of nowhere. The show makes so many

assumptions that we already know who Asoka is, we already know who Ezra is, that it forgets to really develop these characters. Who are you? Question is, who are you? Also, when Ezra reunites with people, there's like no emotion at all. He and Sabine do this cool, hey, hey kind of thing. And when he sees Hera, Hera doesn't hug him. I thought that was really strange. Wouldn't there be some kind of outpouring of emotion? This kid you practically raised to be a Jedi rebel is alive and you thought he was dead for years. Hug the kid. I mean, I don't think this was a series that put characters first. I got to put me first. I got to put me first, Lucius. Which is weird because there's really not that much story in this show. This felt like four episodes of Star Wars stretched

out over eight episodes. Like, I felt like the interesting part of the story happened after they arrived at Peridia. And that should have happened like way sooner in the season. Think about a given season of the Mandalorian, season two. And think about how long it would take to describe every single thing that happened in that one season. For this season, we can say, oh yeah, Assoca and Sabine find Ezra and Thron and Throne escapes. That's the show. The show is about nothing. And this was a show that seemed to exist in between better stories. Like, Ezra tells Sabine and Asoka that Thron woke up the Force Witches when they arrived at Peridia. And Ezra had to escape from Thron, elude the Knight's Sister Magic, live on the run, all while Thron's troopers came to deify him. I mean,

that's a good story. That's really exciting stuff. I want to see that story. And I feel like the movie or show that was set up by this ending is also going to be way more interesting than the show that we got. Like Baylon and Chen, I can't be the only person who felt cheated by this storyline. In one episode, they went from being the best part of this show to being the worst part of the show. Such cool characters, all this mystery and backstory, and we never got to understand what they wanted, why they're here, and they didn't actually get to have an ending. It was all just set up for the next thing. Set up for what? Yeah, but the Empire Strikes Back was all set up. No, the Empire Strikes

back was not all set up. It had character arcs for everyone. Han and Leah fell in love. Luke's training failed. But he learned that there are lessons more important than becoming a powerful Jedi, that they could not win by brute force. Or like hell, even Avengers Infinity War. Yeah, there's a cliffhanger. Thanos won, the heroes lost, but the heroes all learned a lesson that they had to fight together. What was Baylon and Shin's story? I mean, I guess that he senses that she wants power. Your ambition drives you in one direction. My path lies in another. But that's just him telling us something about her. We never get to see her act on that.

So I felt like this whole thing was like basically set up to be a cliffhanger to set us up for the next thing. And it didn't actually resolve much, if anything, about the characters in this show. So I'm really curious to hear what Colton and Heather have to say about this. So Colton, by the way, is the guy who's trapped eternally in our television, but he does not know that. So please don't tell him. Colton, what were your thoughts on the Asoka finale? Well, I overall enjoyed it. Um, it was way different than I thought it would be. I theorized that this episode would focus on

Baylon and Shen and what he sensed on Peridia. And I thought Thron would just kind of take a back seat to the overall story. And like, we'd see him escape and set up the, what will likely be an heir to the Empire movie. But no, they, they completely abandoned the Baylon storyline, the Shen storyline, and just strictly focused on Throne, which is fine. I love Thron, but it's just not the direction I thought they were going. So, yeah, I enjoyed it. I like the lightsaber fights. I like seeing Sabine and Asoka and Ezra all together with their lightsabers,

fighting zombie stormtroopers. That's really cool. But, come on, they don't, it's on Disney Plus. They get a TV rating. They don't have to worry about our rating. Why aren't they slicing these stormtroopers up? Why aren't we seeing heads roll and arms fall off? And there's zombies.

I feel like they could have gotten away. with some really cool lightsabers slashing through Stormtrooper action. And they didn't. And in our Easter egg video, I even pointed out, like, these are slow-moving zombies cut their legs off. Yes, exactly. But, yeah, overall, I enjoyed the episode, and I guess it was refreshing for it to go a direction that I didn't suspect. So that was nice. Well, the reason you didn't suspect it is because it's not at all what they established throughout the entire season.

Look, I, you know me, guys. I'm not somebody who, like, is dying to have. my theories come true. I don't care. Theories are just fun. And by the way, though, I do got a big theory on where all this is going. I'm going to talk to in just a little bit. So I don't really care that, like, oh, Bayland didn't go into the world between worlds. What I cared is that there was no reason for him to be in this story. He's clearly just being set up for the next story. Heather, what about you? Heather, by the way, is the senior group editor of licensing at IDW. Heather, what did you think about this episode, this finale?

You know, on the surface, there was a lot I loved about it. the surface, like, getting to see a zombie stormtrooper in the flesh, uh, no pun intended, uh, uh, uh, you know, it looked, it looked cool, right? It looks like all of that, that fun concept art we've seen over the years and, you know, definitely homageing George's love of monster movies and, you know, things, things like that. Getting Sabine, seeing Sabine use, used the force in that way, that was cool, you know, seeing the group together fighting like the good old days. That was cool. Uh, Morgan versus Soka, that was

rad, you know, and give me Thrawn all day long. All day long. Lars Mickelson is a gift to the Star Wars universe as Thrawn. And so was Ray Stevenson. Yes. No, 100%. But,

you know, kind of like you said, I just I feel like nothing matters with this, you know? Like, they made such a big deal of you know, saying Sabine, quite literally, has, has, is the worst force user, has the worst

force potential, uh, they've ever seen. And, you know, here we see her pull, do a force pull of her lightsaber, you know, against the zombie trooper and force push, Ezra nearly to the star destroyer, uh, he almost fell. Um, and like, that's huge. That, that is a huge moment. being able to force pull his lightsaber in the beginning of Empire Strikes Back after, you know, he's been training with the force and struggling to train with the force, you know, for barely three years. That's huge. And for her to do it after two weeks of half-ass training, you know, like it's, it just, I don't know, it really makes me struggle with, this idea that Luke is supposed to be this, you know, one of the most badass Jedi,

not to say that he's not, but, you know, we're in a period where Luke was supposed to be the only Jedi running around. He is supposed to, you know, the burden of restarting the temple is on his shoulders. Yoda literally says, hey, you're the only one out there, dude. Well, there's one more, your sister. But like, that's it. That's all who's out here. And Asoka's running around at this time. Ezra's running around. at this time, apparently Sabine is now running around at this, you know, amidst to, we have

Shin and Bealin and how many other force users are out there right now. It's really, it makes everything else feel less special and less important, and there are no answers to that yet. And that's where I'm continuously getting

frustrated with this point in the Star Wars saga. Yeah, and I agree. This has been my main criticism all through the season, and it's always been my criticism of Star Wars Rebels, that, you know, Ezra should have never been introduced as a Padawan, Canaan should be the last light of a dying order. And I think I agree with you completely. I do think it diminishes the story that's being told. And look, if we're just going to like super nerd nitpick here, and I think that's why we're all here, the whole point of taking a baby into the Jedi is because

you may have a force sensitivity, but unless that's cultivated from a young age, because when you're at a young age, you're more open to learning. It's like you can learn, I teach a, a kid more languages, you know, before they hit 10, before they hit puberty. That's the whole reason they go to the temple. So you're right. For Luke to learn, and for him, that's why he had the struggles that he did. Too old. Too old to complete the training.

And now it's just like, well, anybody can be a Jedi. And it undermines the story that we have been told before. Sometimes, yeah, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say to piggyback off of that, like, you know, the way they were able to, quote unquote, justify Luke's able ability to be able to become as strong of the force later on was, well, who was his daddy, right? Anakin Skywalker was

his father, literally the chosen one, right? And same with, you know, whether or not we like that Ray Palpatine is Ray Palpatine, she is Ray Palpatine, right? And that sort of explains... And she also uses the force out of nowhere without shining. So, sure, sure. Right, if you want to do

it. So to me, I'm like, all right, who's Sabine related to, guys? Like, who's... Yeah, and it's a shame because I love the character Sabine. I've always said she should have been the protagonist of Star Wars Rebels. I just don't think she needed to be force sensitive. And if it was there to draw this character development between her and Asoka, I mean, I talked about this earlier, but that character development was told out of order, so it made me just wonder what the hell was going on. There was no reason to withhold that information from us from the start. So Colton, is somebody who

claims to have liked this episode, how do you respond to these points that Heather and I have made? well it was cool and it's a show that looks cool 100% yeah on the surface it's cool it was cool and look I completely agree with you it doesn't make sense but if I were to try to explain it maybe it's because they're on Peridia

and Peridia is really strong with the force I don't know we did hear Asoka say in those final moments Ezra is where he needs to be and we are where we need to be. So maybe Pretty is the place where Sabine can actually, like, master her forcibility. I don't know. It doesn't make sense. That's a top shelf reach, my friend. As she said, she's been training.

I have gained better control over my lightsaber. Heather, all through the season, you've been talking about how you thought, well, this episode should have been the first episode. this one like i agree with you completely i think that where we ended this series should have been episode three or four i felt like we didn't actually get an entire season of television and that a lot of character development was like unnecessarily delayed do you still feel that way did we get a whole season of tv here oh absolutely not i i think that i do like where the season ended and that thron escapes at the end of the season i think that that's kind of been the the theory since day one as strong gets back they find Ezra at the end of this I but I just don't think there was enough

character arc I don't I don't think you know there was really a journey I think Sabine had the closest thing to a character arc but even then I don't know that we necessarily got the depths of it. Asoka certainly didn't, and she's the title character, you know. I think Asoka did have a character arc, but the problem is they didn't spell out the stakes of it from the beginning. They didn't start off the show with her somehow telling us, I feel guilty about leaving Anakin, I feel dark, or whatever, I'm a Grey Jedi. You can't say that out, you know, just like that directly. But because we didn't know what happened between her and Sabine, we didn't know her underlying fears and her trauma, it meant nothing as, like,

Even these World Between Worlds episode fell flat for that reason. Coltsin, what about you? Do you think we got a full season of TV here? No, it felt really just discombobulated. The editor and me, both writing and video editing, just wants to get in there and just rearrange everything because they've got a good story in there. They really do.

But, yeah, they just told it really wonky. So I really hope that Disney Plus shows, including Star Wars Marvel, I hope that they can learn how to start making television because it seems like they really don't know how and like they just know how to make long movies and then splice them up. They used to, even, you know, Loki, season one, just rewatch that one, that's a banger.

I mean, every episode has a theme and it's contained and same thing with Wanda Vision, even Hawkeye. I don't know maybe everybody stretched too thin. you get back to Mandalorian, season one, season two, even better. I don't know, maybe because it's like the MCU phase one, Iron Man 2, we're trying to tell a larger story, and they're kind of getting, you know, they're not seeing the forest for the trees. Yeah, I would be curious if it's in the writer's room situations, right?

Like we get two different versions of a writer's room where you get one writer's room that is basically calling out action sequences, right? it's cool visual action sequences that we now have to like have transitions in between each other too so they're not really stories that are being written you know their visual collages and with character beats

rather you know you get something like your loki's or your Andors or you know Hawkeyes that have a story and I think there was a true thesis statement of a story that they wanted to tell from the beginning And, yeah, I think it really starts in those writers' rooms and how they are being run. And I'm curious to see going forward, after the strike, especially, go WGA, after the strike, how Disney reconfigures all of this. Because now, like, they don't have the Chapic pressure, they can breathe, they can take their time.

I think we're going to see, I'm very optimistic about the future. I think we're going to see a huge surge and quality, just less quantity. the theory I'm going to talk about later on is about how to reconcile this with the story of the original trilogy what actually happens when Ezra meets Luke I got a really good theory on that I can't wait to talk to you guys about

so I want to kind of spin that into talking about theories Colton you had a pretty great when you were telling me earlier about it's out there in the internet about the end of this series in Baylon Yeah well you know we had been talking a lot about what does Baylan sense on Peridia

and you and I talked a lot about the Zepho and I do think the Zepho definitely have something to do with it they're that ancient alien race that was force sensitive they fled the galaxy I do think Peridia is a planet

that was basically you know like a force hot spot I think a lot of people went there for force knowledge and stuff like that and then at the end of this episode we saw the Mortis gods so and basically if you don't know about the mortis gods they're basically like these force entities

ancient force entities. The number of times I've had to re-explain that in a video, even in this last one, I was like, I guess we're doing this. Here's who Mori is. Let's go. But another theory I'd been hearing a lot about is this thing called the abeleth. Heather, I don't know if you know about this. Okay, I'm sure you do.

I do not. So please tell me what an abeleth is. I don't know a lot about it. I became an expert like 20 minutes ago. she is like this dark side very powerful dark side being and from what I understood is in legends the ones the mortis gods they and actually the abelith is like the mother we have the father the daughter the brother and ablith is apparently the mother but she became very strong in the dark side she became really dangerous and in legends the mortis gods trapped her and banished her

to this like unnamed planet and then they fled that planet and they went to what is now known as mortis in the main galaxy so i think that maybe these abelah theories have been right and that she has been trapped on peridia the mortis gods got out of dodge went to our main galaxy and she is that dark side powerful entity that balin is sensing on peridia she's lilith you know from uh uh you know mythology uh you know lilith was adam's first wife she was superior to adam she had wings she had the nerve to stand up for herself and say what she wanted so god banished her it's really interesting and i have always wondered about the mother heather what do you think as somebody who's

heard of the abelith before today does that mix in with this mythology yeah i've seen these theories creeping around the internet since purdia first became became a thing and um in this show and you know i i i think it's cool um i don't know If that necessarily falls into the pattern of Dave Faluny's storytelling choices we've seen over the years, you know, we do know Dave Faluny does like to pull from legends. He's literally thrown, right? But I don't know. I think this might be a little too much of a deep cut to be pulled into, but he might be doing his own version of it. I don't know. I think it's really cool. I love to play in the ancient mythology, things like that.

Right. But it does get a little convoluted. What the hell is going on with Baylon? I'm actually, I'm fine with not getting to know in this. It's a travesty that Ray Stevenson's passed away. But like I said earlier, they have gone, Baylon and Shin have gone from my favorite part of the show to the worst, in my opinion. Because, like I was saying earlier, guys, with Empire Strikes Back, we had a cliffhanger, but everybody had a character resolution. And this one, these characters, I guess because we never knew what they wanted, we never got their resolution.

Heather, what do you think? What's next for Baylon and Shin? What the hell is actually going on here? I just, I don't know, because Ray is gone. You know, like, I'm, I'm, I, I, Ray Stevenson is gone. Ah, I thought you met Ray Skywalker. No, I wish. I wish Ray. Let's just have Ray appear in this. No, like, he's not here to play this character, to continue the story. Like, was there other footage shot? Did he have a different ending intended for this? I don't know.

I thought it was rather weird. His last shot of him, to me, at least very clearly is, oh, there's more to come with him. It's setting him up for something, you know, majestic on this statue, right? Of the mortis gods. Right, exactly. and so I don't know like is

are they just going to resolve it by him being stranded there and everyone else is leaving between the world between worlds like I hope not I mean I would rather see him recast I was about to say what did we talk about last episode recast like recast oh 100%

I just don't see Disney doing that right yeah I think they would for a character that's only been around for seven episodes I think I can see them recasting, but again, the big lingering thing here is Ezra Bridger, this super powerful, way more experienced, way more knowledgeable Jedi than Luke Skywalker, who all of the sudden finds himself in a galaxy with a nascent Jedi temple. And how is that going to be resolved?

Well, I got a theory on that that I'm going to tell you guys right now. Colton, Heather, thanks very much for joining me. If you guys want to follow Colton and Heather on all their socials, they're down below. Couldn't do it without you. Thanks very much. So here's where I think all this is going to lead up to. The big question I have after this series is, since Ezra has now been introduced to the main Star Wars galaxy, how does that impact the journey of Luke Skywalker and the new Jedi Temple?

Luke is supposed to be The Last Jedi. Luke told him so. When gone am I? The last of the Jedi will you be? And he also said, Pass on what you have learned. And we don't know much about Luke's journey post-return of the Jedi, other than like he's gathering force artifacts. In the comics, we see him recover branches from the Jedi tree.

In the game Battlefront, we see him recover a compass and some books. And now we see him starting in the book of BobaFet the new Jedi Temple. So what happens when a much more powerful, much more experienced Jedi enters the chat? I have to think that Luke is going to be thrilled about this. He now has someone to help him teach, someone who has had more thorough, more personal training than he has. And maybe Ezra is a teeny bit resentful that Luke was the Jedi rebel hero instead of him. I mean, this is an on-screen meeting that I really want to see. So it's probably going to happen off screen like Luke and Assoca meeting.

I'm an old friend of the family. So Luke has finally found an equal someone to help him build a Jedi order. But what I'm most excited for is what I think is going to be the best part of the Dave Filoni movie, Ezra's death. Princess Leia, right? Dude, Ezra has to die. He just does. He has to die. Sorry, it is the only thing that makes sense.

Luke's Jedi order is a failure. I mean, if Ezra had been there, I have to believe they would have succeeded. Ezra's return is going to be seen as a new beginning for the galaxy. It's going to stabilize Luke's Jedi temple, and we know that Luke's temple is cursed. We know how it's going to end. So I think that his new temple has to begin with a gut punch of Ezra's death. Like personally, I think the most interesting story here would be if Snoke or Palpatine or whoever influenced Ezra preyed on his jealousies and Ezra tried to take Luke's pupils for himself.

And then Luke had to put him down. And this would also set a precedent for Luke's indecision in the Last Jedi flashbacks. For the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. You remember, like when he sensed the darkness and Kylo ran and he thought about killing his own nephew. So if Luke had already been forced to kill one member of his temple, Ezra, then it makes more sense that it would even occur to him

to kill his own flesh and blood. Ezra could go from undermining Luke Skywalker's story to reinforcing that story. But I'm guessing then instead they'll write some plot hole where he enters the world between worlds and then exits just in time for the Ray trilogy because a lot of Dave Filoni characters are invincible because of plot. armor. Well, guys, that's just what I thought of Asoka's season one. Didn't hate it, kind of disappointed in the ending.

Let me know your thoughts on it down in the comments below or at me on Twitter. And if it's your first time here, please subscribe, smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie. Thank you.