ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - DAREDEVIL Born Again CANCELLED - Why Marvel TV Is BROKEN and How the MCU Can Fix It

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

ScreenCrush Rewind tackles all the movie and TV hot topics, offering reviews and analysis of Marvel, Star Wars, and everything you care about right now. Hosted by Ryan Arey, and featuring a panel of industry professionals. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Oh, would not mind seeing Daredevil again. Historically, we've been light in that department. Hey, welcome back Screen Crush. I'm Ryan Erie, and you've probably already heard the news. Marvel is scrapping Daredevil born again, and they're starting fresh. We need to take the whole line back to Formula. Back to Formula. Back to Formula. But hang on, I'm going to explain why this is actually a good thing. Right, but I thought you liked Daredevil.

Oh, dude, I love Daredevil. So, I'm really good. excited to see Marvel take a step back and do this show right. Now a little later I'm going to bring in two Marvel experts, Screencrush Editor and Chief Matt Singer and YouTuber Whitney Van Lendingham so they can make sense of all this. But first, let me explain what the hell is actually going on here and why The Daredevil show is probably going to be awful. And a little later, I want to talk about what I hope Marvel does with this because this could potentially remake the Marvel Cinematic Universe in the most exciting way possible. So we all know that Marvel has been great in making movies for more than a decade. What you may not know is how

unconventionally this studio operates. Now, normally, a studio hires a screenwriter, then finds a director to shoot the script. The director is then given the artistic license to create this story. But at Marvel, a central creative force, Kevin Feige, oversees deputy producers who each manage a different franchise, hiring screenwriters and directors to oversee these projects. Now, the directors do have some artistic license, as long as they hit certain benchmarks that are already set for the franchise as a whole. What do you mean? Well, like how at Ragnarok had to end with the Asgardians on the run, and then they were running into Thanos' ship. But Taika Waititi was allowed to add in his own flourishes and style.

Piss off, Ghost! Now, what's interesting about Marvel's approach is it's rare for a studio to have such a hands-on approach with its franchises. And Marvel was actually running more like a traditional TV show. Okay, then, how do you run a TV show? Well, typically a TV show has a producer, usually the show's creator and head writer, called the showrunner. This person is the main creative force behind the show, like the director of a film. Some showrunners have become famous for a very distinct style, Aaron Sorkin, Dan Harmon, Terry Metallis, Vince Gilligan. These writers all have their own fans the way directors like Christopher Nolan or Stephen Spielberg have their fans.

Now, TV directors have a much smaller role in a creative process, executing the vision of the showrunner. So, over the years, Marvel actually evolved to work more like a giant TV show. But, according to the Hollywood Reporter and the new book, The Rain of Marvel Studios, Marvel stumbled when they began to make shows for Disney Plus. Sorry, give me just one second. Hey, what are you doing on your phone anyways? Oh, sorry, man, this is Dungeon Hunter 6. They're the sponsor of this video.

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That show's called a pilot. Then they show that one show to the people who pick shows. And on the strength of that one show, they decide if they want to make more show. But Marvel just skipped this process. just green lighting shows without pilot scripts. They also broke with the traditional TV format, hiring writers to script the series, but then handing creative control over to the director. For most of their shows, this resulted in a story that felt more like a long movie

that was just cut up into sections. That's why when you watch Secret Invasion, some episodes are only 30 minutes long, others are 45 minutes, and some of them just seem to stop in the middle of the story for no reason. Okay, so why do you Marvel change their TV format like that? Well, dude, because they're Marvel. They've been so innovative with everything else, they thought they could just reinvent TV on the fly.

Like how Marvel movies have a very improvisational let's fix it in post attitude. But you cannot just fix it in post with the TV show. When you're creating six to eight hours of programming, the production schedule is insane. So when the studio bosses started to tweak the shows, it caused all these post-production problems and reshoots that led to splits with the creative talent.

I mean, some reports say Secret Invasion reshot basically the entire show. And we see this creative tension behind the scenes on Marvel shows, like on Moon Night, when the show creator and writer Jeremy Slater quit and Mohamed Diab took over. And this might explain why so much of Moon Knight felt like a sliced up movie, with plot points repeating themselves over and over again. How many times can they search for an artifact that's going to lead them to the new place, you know? But Secret Invasion is when the Marvel method really broke down.

The Hollywood Reporter piece is damning. Now Marvel hired a TV legend, Kyle Bradstreet, who was a veteran of the excellent series Mr. Robot. He worked on writing the series for an entire year before Marvel replaced him with Brian Tucker, because they wanted to take the series in a new, presumably, lamer direction. No offense to Mr. Tucker, I don't think any of this is his fault. So then, Ali Saleem and another guy named Thomas Bakusa were then brought on as directors. And then, according to THR's article, the creative process collapsed last summer. According to the article, what happened next debilitated the productions as factions became entrenched

and leaders vied for supremacy during Secret Invasion's pre-production in London. A Marvel Insider was quoted as saying, it was weeks of people not getting along and it erupted. So by September of 2022, a good portion of the team had just been replaced, and the Marvel executive overseeing the show, Chris Gary, is now expected to leave the studio when his contract expires this year. And by the way, we covered extensively what happened behind the seeds of secret invasion in this video, where we talked about the Russian invasion of Ukraine and how it set everything back. A lot of things went wrong for this show. I'm not pointing fingers at any single creative force. And this brings us to Daredevil and how Marvel is finally fixing this problem. The writer and actor strike this year paused the production of Daredevil Born Again.

That's the 16-episode Daredevil series that was supposed to launch next year. This pause gave Marvel time to re-evaluate what they'd shot so far, and they decided that basically the show sucked. According to THR, Daredevil didn't even appear in costume until episode 4, and they weren't happy with the tone of the series, which was lighthearted and not dark like its Netflix predecessor. And I should say that for years now, Marvel Studios has been under immense pressure from Disney

to make as much content as possible, cranking out more hours of programming in Phase 4 than Phase 1 through 3 combined, And the TV shows have slowly been getting worse. There were the rewritten endings of Hawkeye and Falcon and Winter Soldier, the uneven storytelling of Moon Night and the, sorry y'all, we ran out of time, CGI on Shehawk and Miss Marvel. But Secret Invasion broke a lot of fans. I think fan enthusiasm for Loki has been dampened by how terrible that show was.

Fans feel burned. And now Marvel is finally back on track to make it right. And the thing is, guys, Loki deserves a massive amount of fan enthusiasm. Just a few episodes in, and the show's great. That's why we created this Loki-inspired merch at our merch store, Screencrushmerch.com. Now, we designed these shirts ourselves. There's the variant hoodie with the Screencrush variant logo, the usual variance t-shirt with film and TV's most offending time travelers, Miss Minutes, Dolly Clock, Doug is Loki, and many more.

Shopping our merch store is the best way you can directly support our channel and what we do here. So, as always, big thanks for watching and check out the link below. So now, going forward, Marvel has decided to adopt a traditional TV structure. They're going to commission TV pilot scripts, higher show runners, write show bibles, lock-in scripts, trips before they shoot them, and then they'll have executives who are full-time TV executives instead of having executive split time between movies and TV shows. Marvel producer Brad Winderbaum told THR, we need executives that are dedicated to this medium that are going to focus on streaming, focus on television, because they're two different forms.

So from now on, Marvel isn't just going to shoot a show and see what works. They're sticking to a real schedule which should give us more moments like this. And God help us know more moments like this. Give me your gun, god damn it. It's also revamping its development process. Showrunners will write pilots and show bibles. The days of Marvel shooting an entire series from Shehawk to Secret Invasion, then looking at what's working and what's not, are done.

Now, a little later, I want to tell you how I think Marvel should implement this new plan. But first, I want to hear for the Marvel Brain Trust, Screencrush Editor-in-Chief Matt Singer and YouTuber Whitney Van Landingham. So that's what's happened. Now to understand what's going to happen and where we go from here, I have to talk to Screencrush Editor-in-Chief Matt Singer and Whitney Van Landingham, the co-host of the brand new Guardians of the Palixie podcast, and also you can find her on the Whitney Vision YouTube channel.

So, you know, we've all read this piece from The Hollywood Reporter. I was not surprised by it. Matt, I'm curious, you know, for you, you've reviewed all of these Marvel shows. You've been with them every single step of the way. For you, when did this flaw in structure become apparent that they weren't doing traditional TV, they were doing large movies cut up into pieces? I feel like the first couple of shows went well enough that you were, you were sort of going, yeah, they kind of have this figured out.

And then after the first few shows, I don't really know what changed at that point. But it did start to feel like something did change. And when you read this article, I know my reaction was just a lot of like, oh, that makes sense. Because it felt like all the complaints, like if I went back and looked at all the things I was saying about, a lot of these shows, like, moon night and secret invasion and all of these different things like where I was saying all of these things about how the tone would be all over the place or the story would be kind of choppy you know or like all those sorts of things then you would read this article and how people are quitting or being fired behind the scenes there's power struggles behind the

scenes and people can't decide what kind of show they're going to make or they would shoot all this stuff and then they would go in the editing room and decide it wasn't working and try to fix it with a reshoot or re-editing or something and then you look back at what you saw and you go well that all checks out that like I didn't know any of these details but in hindsight none of them were surprising after you read that piece it sort of made sense of a lot of the issues that I was having watching these shows in real time week to week and the book that's out now this is called the the reign of Marvel studio it's a great read we had the co-authors here on the channel last week talking about it

They also talked about how Marvel, you know, they, exactly what's in this article, they pushed away traditional TV structure and they did, according to this, they looked at certain projects and decided Hawkeye would be a better show than a movie, which I thought was kind of puzzling because Hawkeye was the first time I watched one of these shows, and I thought, this doesn't seem episodic. This just seems like something they've cut up into pieces. Whitney, how about you? I mean, you've covered Marvel extensively during this entire TV.

Was there a point for you when you were like, this feels, wrong. Honestly, Wanda Vision was just such a banger, straight out of the gate. And I, like, rode that high for a while. So, like, even through Hawkeye, where, like, I did also feel like stuff was a little disjointed. It did really feel like, okay, this should have, I guess, been, like, a four-hour movie instead of just, like, an entire TV series. And I, I, I think that I gave a lot of benefit of the doubt, especially to the earlier ones. Falcon and the Winter Soldier, I kind of fell off. That one also felt like it should have been a movie to me.

I know, I know. I'm one of the very few people where, like, on the list, Falcon and the Winter Soldier is not towards the top for me. It was uneven. I agree that there were certain decisions that were made, and maybe, Matt, that goes back to what you were saying about different creative voices coming in. But I think that one had a pretty steady hand at the wheel from what I remember. That makes sense. I just, yeah, it didn't, it didn't connect with me as much, especially because Wanda vision was just so good. But I, I obviously, like, took, like, a hard pivot with secret invasion, because, like, I could kind of deal with all of it up until then.

Because in every show, there were really great episodes. And there was, like, really cool stuff that was revealed and really cool plot lines. that I truly enjoyed and thought did add to the overall MCU. So none of them were like a waste of time for me. I thought that they were all, you know, it's a TV show, not the best TV show I've ever seen for some of them. But Secret Invasion Man, that just like messed me up. I had no idea why it was so dissatisfying.

And the only parts that I felt were like truly amazing were just the scenes between Fury and Vara, because those were, like, absolutely incredible, but everything else was just so disjointed, so dissatisfying. The Maria Hill thing was ridiculous. I, yeah, I just, that show really made me, like, fall off the Marvel TV show wagon. We did a video a while back, and I think it made a lot of fans fall off, because if you look at, like, Loki breakdown views on YouTube channels, not that's the best metric, but YouTube views, are a good metric of fan enthusiasm. Eventually, the views picked up, but they're near where they were in Loki season one.

I actually saw your tweet about that, and then I started looking at people's numbers, and I was like, oh, shit, this is weird. It was scary. It picks back up. We're fine, everybody. We're fine. If you're concerned at home, we're fine. We're doing all right.

But, like, I thought we would have this much after two days, you know. But, again, I think this, I think Loki's so good that the fans will come back for it. That's a different conversation. For sure. For me, around Moon Night. is when I started to go, oh, this is getting repetitive. Like, every episode's the same thing.

Ms. Marvel, at least, had its episodes where there were COVID problems and the budget was obviously less and some villain, but every episode was a different episode. Whereas, like, Secret Invasion especially was one, where the whole show seemed like it was that cut-up movie

and it really, just really sucked. Matt, if Secret Invasion was this tipping point, Do you think that Secret Invasion was their tipping point? Because it's interesting to hear they were continuing on with Daredevil up to this point. I mean, I don't know. I guess it sounded to me. I don't know that this was explicitly stated in that article. But what it read to me like was, you know, we had these strikes, one of which is still going on.

And as a result, you know, like Marvel had some time on its hands to like, everything got paused. And so they were able to look at what they had shot. So I don't know if it had as much to do with Secret Invasion as it had to do with, the timing of we've had to stop shooting everything we're shooting. Let's take a look at what we've got because there's nothing else we can do. And when they looked at it, they realized, uh, this isn't, apparently this isn't working. Who could imagine that a TV show called Daredevil that doesn't, apparently, according to this article, doesn't have an appearance in costume of Daredevil, uh, for the first three or four episodes. I can't imagine

why that wouldn't work. What a shocker. What do those episodes look like? I want to know. I want to know what this shit show actually looks like. Apparently, according to this article, a lighthearted legal drama, which is so weird. And there was, you know, the showrunner of Daredevil, Stephen Tonight, I believe, said that the reason

that he thought, he tweeted this, they changed the name to Bournegana, so Disney could claim that it was a different show and not pay royalties to the original people. So maybe that's partially responsible for the change in tone. But Marvel's usually so good at giving fans what they want, you know, or at least making that

attempt. So it was a very strange pivot to me. The other behind the scenes things I've heard about Daredevil, and this is what's strange about this, right? When we talk about Marvel and we talk about here's this overall story, the rumors I've heard, take them for what they are. The rumors are Wilson Fiske running for mayor and the platform he's running on is anti-vigilante, anti-Dar Devil, anti-Spiderman. There's all this like these guys in the streets. Maybe there's some kind of mini-Sikovia incident that happens in New York. that sounds great you can bring the punisher into that like that premise alone sounds fantastic to me but there you have the influence of marvel studios but again we go back to what this article

talked about which is the hiring of the show owners the vision the message that seemed like they were more interested in okay so here's the parameters just go make a show um and now they're going to have to adapt to this traditional storytelling for television witty do you think that's going to fit like are we going to be able to get the marvel that we that we like, like Wanda Vision, within this structure? Man, I hope so, because that's the thing that is just so bizarre, is that they were just switching off, like, creative direction, just kind of passing it along and learning that, like,

because of the strikes, obviously, I don't think for a second that Marvel or Disney did this because they found it in their hearts to do the right thing. It's absolutely because of the strike, but, like, they were just, they weren't even having showrunners be on a through line through some of these projects. And that just sucks. I mean, you have to let people's creative visions flourish in those situations. You can't just pass it off to a bunch of different people and expect it to be cohesive. So I'm very excited that they looked at it and were like, oh, no.

And then redid the, started making attempts to redo it because that is absolutely what needs to happen. It's interesting they did it midstream, because Marvel will do that, but they'll do it after they've wrapped photography. You know, they'll be like, let's fix it in post. Let's do it later. Let's do it in our massive research. I can't believe Marvel has a, ah, we'll fix it in post. Like, most YouTubers do that, but not, like, not Disney. Come on. Ever since Thor, The Dark World, they've had that policy. You know, just like, oh, we'll go back and, yeah, gee, what a great job fixing that one in post, too. Yeah, Jesus. Matt, have you, when do you think? I know we talked a little bit about like the slow kind of when things started to feel disjointed.

Is there a point for you when you recognize like, oh gee, Marvel TV bad? Like Marvel Disney Plus not working. When did they lose you? I mean, I don't know. I mean, some of the shows have had, you know, problems, but they've also had. had good moments. I did think Secret Invasion was easily the worst one that they've done, where even with the other shows,

even when there was episodes that I would get frustrated with or parts that I was frustrated with, it didn't feel like homework to tune in to watch them, whereas with Secret Invasion, that was the kind of thing where I really was, I was struggling. If we weren't doing these kind of things, I probably would have found something else to do, then watch after the first couple of episodes.

But I mean, I think, again, it's the sort of situation where you were, you were, your spider sense was tingling, so to speak, as you're watching these things and you're going, what is going on here? Something is off. Something is not right. Even if, in a lot of cases, you know, there are good performances, interesting, you know, interesting elements to all of these shows, great actors, you know, like I think of a show like Moon Knight where I'm such a big Oscar Isaac fan. I loved what he was doing. Same. But then I watched the show, and when it was all done, I sat there and went, like, you have this great actor and this very interesting character. Was this really, like, the best use of his time and this property and this concept?

You know, this character with multiple personalities and all of those sorts of elements, he doesn't know who he is. And what was the show ultimately? It was just like a big chase scene for, you know, pointless MacGuffins. It's like, if ever, like, character needed like a TV show um and not you know one story chopped up as as people are going from

one place to another chasing after something um i kind of felt like that was it and yeah again that's another element of that article that when you read it it makes sense this idea that they really weren't making them like tv shows they were making them like long movies um which i mean i suppose in some situations that could work and like we said the early marvel shows were a lot of fun they kind of that came barreling out of the gate where you were like, wow, they figured this out just just as well as they did making movies. So again. So I was just going to say, I, you know, it's, it's, it's, it really is curious how

the wheels really fell off pretty quickly after those first couple of shows where all of a sudden, every, every new series, you were like, the first episode would come and you're like, okay, that was kind of, got some potential. And then the second episode would come out and you'd go, okay, and then the next episode. And by the third or fourth episode, you go, well, they've got like three episodes left to figure this out. And it's not really coming together. You know what I mean? And that became kind of the way I would approach a lot of these shows.

It would be like, you'd be very excited. The premise is great. All the people you want to see are in it. And then there's like week after week, it was just like an increasingly frustrating, you know, when are we going to get to the fireworks factory kind of vibe, where you kept waiting for everything to come together. And some of these shows are like six episodes. It's not a lot of time, especially in. TV to get your act together.

But when we talk about all these shows, the shows that I think we can universally, I would guess praise the most are Wanda Vision and Loki. And both of them have a traditional TV structure where every episode is different. Now, Loki, you know, you are on this like madcap chase to find He Who Remains, but there's an episode on Lamentus. There is an episode where they find Sylvie in the store. Like every episode does have its own thing. There's an episode at the end of time.

Whereas everything else, like you said, Moon Night just seemed like this long thing that was cut up. people feel disconnected from the narrative and why should I have to wait a week? It also makes people just want to binge it, which is the opposite of what Disney Plus wanted when they switched to this episode by episode model. Whitney, what is it you want to see Marvel TV do now? Like, is it a season two for a certain character? Is it just like take a long break?

Are you dying to see Agatha and Ironheart? Like, what is it you're as a fan looking forward to the most here? I do really want to see Agatha, like so bad. I, but that also is because of that Wanda vision high, because Catherine Hahn was just so amazing in that. So, of course, I want to see that follow up, but also at this point, I'm a little scared because I don't want it to be bad. And a bunch of other, you know, it just, secret invasion really is like the part where

I'm just like, please God, I can't sit through another one of those. Like, you know, like Matt was just saying, every other show has like redeemable qualities, but I just could not get behind Secret Invasion. So if they can do Agatha correctly, I want to see that so bad. I also think that it's just really smart of them to hold off on Ironheart until that one is made well, too, because of the success of, you know, Wakanda forever and all that. Like, they want to keep that momentum going. So I think it's smart that they're doing these. And now it's being pushed to next year.

Yeah. Typically, studios don't sit on a winner for two. years you know what i mean like i'm not i've heard good things i've heard secondhand information from cast members that they really like it but what are they going to say you know yeah um i just i'm i'm looking and then you look it up wakonda forever when i look at that movie i think the worst thing about it was that they shoehorned this character in for a spinoff like it felt like a back door pilot for re rea williams um matt what about you like is there anything in particular you like super excited to see as like a comic book fan critic i don't know i guess i'm most curious

now after reading that article about seeing if anything changes. When these shows come out, is it going to feel, are they going to feel different? Or is it going to continue in the, in the trajectory that it's been on? You know, I mean, I was sort of curious about what this Daredevil show is going to look like. I mean, it's funny how when you described Ryan what the show originally, what they shot, which they're now mostly discarding, what it was going to be, because it's nothing like the Daredevil Born Again comic, which is a great comic, which I would have loved to have seen, you know, the TV. version of that. So yeah, I mean, that's to me the main issue is like what's going to, what are we

going to see now when these shows that they've shot or they're working on now when they come out? Are they going to feel more like Loki and Wanda Vision? Are they going to feel more like a, you know, a standard episodic television series or is it going to kind of continue in the same vein as your secret invasions or your Moon Nights or your Ms. Marvel's? Although I thought that one was probably the best of those shows. So, you know, that's, Ms. Marvel has some great. It had some good stuff. Yeah, it had some good stuff. And I also just think that Amon Valani's, like, enthusiasm for it was so contagious and so palpable that it was, like, impossible for me not to like her just because of, like, both her character and who she was and how excited she was in all the interviews about it.

She was adorable. Back to Secret Invasion, the one thing we know from that is throwing money at something does not fix it. It seemed like that core that got rotten pretty quick. Looking forward, like looking back at Daredevil, I think we were all looking forward to that. 16 episodes born again, they're taking the Netflix thing, it's a perfect cast. We all love Daredevil. How do you, how, it's just, the idea that they're going to go back to showrunners and pilot scripts makes so much sense because apparently they didn't do that with Daredevil.

How do you have three episodes without there, and then just greenlight that? Like, yeah, that sounds good. To me, it almost sounds like, it was. It was seemed just it was compartmentalized and that they didn't, they just had to go, go, go. And we talked a lot about this last week and at our Secret Invasion kind of what the hell happened video. Disney's pumped the brakes. Like once Iger came back in, they realized like, hey, we're really hurting the brand on Marvel and to a certain extent Star Wars. So I'm glad they've done that.

As a fan, I kind of get the impression from other fans just based on what I've read on social media and stuff. Fans seem okay with it. we'd rather wait a little longer than to get a stinker. I don't know, though, if the brand is permanently damaged after Secret Invasion or not, at least a Disney Plus brand. Do you guys think there's a future for Marvel TV? Should they even keep doing this? Or should they do things like Werewolf by Night?

Matt, what do you think? Where is their strength for success in this? I mean, I would be shocked if they decided to stop making TV shows altogether. I do think we've already kind of seen definitely that they've kind of, of slowed down the output of stuff. Yeah, I mean, it's tricky because the serialized nature of comic books is perfect for television. Like, in a way, it's kind of remarkable that they figured out how to be so successful making movies when comics were always more adaptable, at least structurally, to TV. I mean, one of the, you could say it as a positive or negative, but one

of the things Marvel did when they made movies was they kind of turned movies into television, at least the kind of episodic, every film leads into the next film kind of structure of it all. So I don't see why Marvel can't make good shows, and they've proven they can. They've made a couple of good shows. So to me, it's, yeah, I think it's less about abandoning television as it is maybe slowing the amount of stuff in general, maybe not just in TV, but TV and movies, and taking a close look at what they're making, how they're making it and maybe also like who it's about you know like not that i don't love seeing these random characters getting their own shows i mean for me some of the that's some of the

most fun because i love the weird strange quirky characters of marvel um but maybe not all of them need their own 10 episode television series perhaps maybe and maybe the audience doesn't necessarily want that you know what i mean i think we've proven that as far as fatigue. It has like I think phase four of the MCU had more hours of programming than phase one through three combined. So it's interesting. Whitney we talk about oh my god there's only six episodes. How do you get to know this story in six episodes? But on the flip side of that there's do I have to watch 10 episodes of Shehawk to understand the next Avengers movie? Where do you think that line lives? Like do you think that we're better off with longer seasons that maybe affect the movies

less so they don't feel like homework or should we stick to shorter content? I mean, I just really think that it ultimately depends on the quality because if it's a quality show, I don't mind doing the homework because then it doesn't feel like homework. But obviously it is a huge problem if they're going to continue on, which it sounds like they're not. It sounds like they're going to try. I hope that they try. I hope that they succeed. But if they had just continued, continued pumping out these like, it's almost like they're just feeding comic books into like a manufactured system and just bullshit is just keeps popping out instead of taking time to like handcraft that shit, you know, and really put time into it and really put love into it. Because you can feel it. You can just feel the difference. And I do think that we need kind of a break because it is, it does. It is. It is. starting to feel like homework because there's just so much and you don't want to have to spend hours and hours and hours of your life just to be able to see the marvels when it comes out in theaters you know

like you might not want that but i do think that you would want it if the content was good so i'm torn i just don't want them to do it with any more shitty shows but as long as they really do fix the process in that case i'm down going back to 2021 nobody was saying oh god another Marvel, maybe because we'd had a year without anything. Yeah. But 2021, we had, off top of my head, I think, five shows, counting what if. We had three movies, Black Widow is even a hybrid release, and we were down for it. And looking back, I mean, Matt, I know you didn't like the Eternals.

We've had discussions about that, but it's leagues better than secret invasion. And as much as people might not like Hawkeye, it's a lot better than Secret Invasion. Yeah, I apologize for what I said about the Eternals. before I knew that secret invasion was the way it was. Exactly. And this year, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't apologize. I don't take back anything. Uh, I don't see what one has to do with the other. No, no, they, they don't directly infect the other, but like when you're talking about a slope of quality, I think that they definitely, I thought they had hit a low point with, um, a lot of stuff that like from 20,

like throw the dark girl, but boy, they proved me wrong. So Matt, Whitney, thank you very, both very much for joining me. Their socials are below. Matt is also the author of the upcoming. Siskel and Ebert biography, opposable thumbs. Can't wait to read it. Thanks, guys. Now, we're all excited about Marvel TV raising their bar of excellence, and movie producers focusing on movies means that the quality of the film should rise as well. But I want to see these two sides of Marvel seamlessly integrated, like they were at the start of Phase 2. You see, very briefly, Marvel Studios, film, and television studios were coordinated by the Marvel Creative Committee. Very long story short, this system fell apart because of internal Marvel politics. But the height of this,

for me was when the show Agents of Shield ended on a cliffhanger that was resolved two days later when the Winter Soldier was released. And then to see the epilogue of the Winter Soldier, you had to watch the next episode of Agents of Shield. It's got to be some sort of activation signal to Hydra members within Shield. So coordination like that is really difficult on a network TV schedule, but they pulled it off. And I would think that they would be able to do this more often with the streaming service because they have not promised advertisers to sell ad time on any of these shows. So what I want to see for The Daredevil show is a full coordination with the next Spider-Man film. Like I said, rumor has it that the show would have shown Wilson Fisk running for mayor,

railing against vigilantes like Spider-Man, and we are dying to see Spider-Man and Daredevil team up, this time in costume. I'm a really good lawyer. So I would love to see this new Daredevil series lead to a mayoral election and a gang war that is resolved in the next Spider-Man film. They already tease that the next Spider-Man movie would be more street-level, and maybe violence breaks out across the city, so Peter is desperate, So he turns to the darker, more powerful, Venom symbiates.

Since he doesn't have Tony Stark's armor to rely on any more. And that symbiotees then imitates the darker heroes from the Daredevil show, like him and The Punisher. Like, this is just a taste of the kind of crossover potential that Marvel has, and they have barely scratched the surface. Well, let me know. What do you think Marvel will do next? What kind of TV shows do you want to see? What TV show do you want to see to get a season two? Let me know in the comments below or at me on Twitter. And if it's your first time here, please subscribe, smash that bell for alerts.

For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie. ...you know... ...that...