ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - How Black Widow’s Death Derailed the Multiverse Saga

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

ScreenCrush The Podcast tackles all the movie and TV hot topics, offering reviews and analysis of Marvel, Star Wars, and everything you care about right now. Hosted by Ryan Arey, and featuring a panel of industry professionals.

A Vendors Endgame made one crucial mistake that I think hurt the movie and undermines the entire Multiverse saga. Welcome back Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie, and I'm going to explain why Natasha's death was a mistake and who I think should have died in the movie. But first of all, you've got to understand I love Avengers Endgame. It's like my comfort movie. There is one scene that I think hurts this film and cripples the progress of the MCU going forward. In this video, I am going to get into a lot of really fun what-if scenarios, and that's to show you that I think there is a better story here with Natasha Alive, than if she dies. First, let's talk about the actual setup of her death. Like, I don't have to rehash the plot of the movie for you. You were there. You saw it. We saw it together. But do you remember that when they went out to get the Infinity Stones, they first spent a lot of time planning

this out? They poured over every nuance of the MCU to determine the exact right time to nab each stone. And the stone on Vormir could only be one if you sacrifice the person you loved. Now, I'm not the first guy to point this out that it's a little weird that they happen to send out two people who love each other very much, and who start off very optimistic about their journey. Say it a minute. So when they arrive, they're surprised to hear about this sacrifice. Stones don't there. In order to take the stone, you must lose that which you love.

But they shouldn't have been surprised, because Nebula would have known that there was a sacrifice involved. I mean, she worked this out in Infinity War. You took her to warm here. He came back with the solstile. That she did. Now, it is possible that Nebula withheld this information. from them and manipulated events of the two people with the strongest bond

went to Vormir. And maybe that's a theory video all by itself. Nebula killed Black Widow. But I don't think this is where Nebula is at on her journey. She's already had her face turn in Guardians too, and she's learning to work well with others. You're fun? It was fun.

And if she did manipulate these two into sacrificing each other, then that should have been a plot point in the movie. Instead, I think the Avengers would have known about the sacrifice and worked out an alternate solution, but they still would have sacrificed someone. But before I get into all those what-if scenarios, let's talk about how Natasha's death actually affected the plot of this movie. It didn't.

Natasha's death did not affect the movie or improve it. Now, in fairness, you can argue that her death showed the audience that not every character was going to make it out alive. But we already knew that, right? I mean, half the universe died in the movie before, and I think we all assumed that some variation of Steve or Tony or really anybody could die in the movie. Now, in the first Avengers film,

the heroes were discordant until Coulson died. Then his death gave them someone to avenge. But that's not really the case. case with Natasha's death. They're already avenging the people who were snapped away. And when everybody has snapped back, we don't actually get any reaction from the revived heroes. Nobody ever says, hey, wait, where's Natasha? Not even Akoye, who worked with her for several years. And that girls get it done scene was kind of shallow, but it still sucks that the first female hero in the MCU wasn't there with them. Now, I will say after her death, there is a brief moment

where they're all like really sad. Do we know if she had family? Yeah. Us. And then that's it. Her death is overshadowed by Tony's big sacrifice, and she doesn't even get an on-screen funeral. Just Clint looking wistfully at the water. That's bullshit. In any other movie, her death would be the point of the movie.

But now I want to talk about the aftermath of her death and how I think it derailed the MCU's multiverse saga. Look, I don't want to make another video complaining about the multiverse saga. I actually think the past few years have seen some of the best stuff that Marvel has ever made. Arlac rat. Like Loki, Thunderbolts, Wiconda Forever. I think Multiverse of Madness is underrated.

There are some real high-water marks in this saga. However, the one decision they made that I think doomed people to lose interest was the lack of regular Avengers movies. As Marvel introduced more and more characters, we never got a sense of what this was leading to. In the Infinity saga, the crossovers made MCU movies into events, and without them, everything seemed like homework. See, after the Avengers got together and saved the world in endgame,

there was no reason that the other heroes wouldn't keep getting together and keep this thing going. Obviously, there's value in teaming up. They just saved the universe, and yet, they decided to disband. Now, here's where I want to get into a little bit of comics lore. The Avengers have split up in the comics. For instance, they were divided during Civil War, but also they split up during an event called Avengers Disassembled.

In this run, the Scarlet Witch learns that she used to have twin sons, and just like in the MCU, losing them made her go insane. So the Avengers helped in the cover-up to erase her memory of them. But then, once she discovers the truth, she begins to subconsciously destroy the team. And afterwards, Steve and Tony kind of agree, yeah, we suck. We don't deserve to be Avengers. Let's not get the team back together.

So that is a good reason to not reform the Avengers, but we never had something like that in the MCU. I guess on the other hand, there is a question of who would have formed the new team. Sam and Bucky were intimidated by Legacy. Bruce had to go to his Island Lab, I guess, Clint retired, and maybe Rodie was a scroll or something. But the answer is, Natasha would have reformed the team. See, she never had a family until she found the Avengers.

So, just for funsies, let's create an awesome. alternate multiverse saga where Natasha had lived, and I'll tell you why I think this makes for a much stronger story. Now, let's say Natasha lives, and a lot of members of her team are retired or dead. In fact, I'll go over who I think should have died in just a little bit. So first of all, Scarlett Johansson is a world famous marquee star, an Oscar nominee, and she could have been one of the new anchors to this franchise. The Black Widow movie should have been a continuation of the grounded side of the MCU following the pattern set by Captain America the Winter Soldier. She should have been one of the actors to anchor the MCU, along with Tom Holland, the Benedict Cumberbatch.

But most importantly, I think there was a really interesting story to tell with her after the events of Endgame. The Black Widow movie was the second Marvel film released after Endgame, and it should have been there to signal a whole new era. But instead, it was a coda on the multiverse saga. It was a footnote. And look, I really like that movie. But even if it weren't for COVID, it never would have made big box office because people already knew how it ends. Natasha was dead. But had this exact movie taken place after her.

after Endgame, it would have been an exciting new direction for her. I mean, think about it. There was no reason that this movie had to take place after Civil War. There wasn't a story about Natasha's life that we needed to explain how she went from being Captain America's loyal soldier to becoming Captain America's loyal soldier. But post-end game, that's a story where we would get to see Natasha really grieve and reflect. I think she would have done some major soul searching. Maybe she thinks the Avengers can't be reformed without her friends.

Maybe she's thinking, I'm not so sure if I could go through this, rebuilding the compound and rebuilding the team. then we would have somebody mentioned early on that the Avengers aren't going to get back together, as opposed to the Multiverse saga which just ignored this point altogether. Which is why I want you, Captain America, to help me rebuild the avenger. So Natasha, after losing so many people before and after the Snap, would then look up her original spy family. And then, the Black Widow movie could pretty much play out like we saw, except now, Natasha is actively trying to replace her found family with her original one. Now she has more of a reason to seek them out. On the one hand, they're trying to take down the red room, but on the other,

she has no one else. Emotionally, she needs this family in her life. And following this movie, Natasha realizes the value of teamwork and decides to reform the Avengers. Then she would be the leader of the team and the new Nick Fury figure popping up throughout post-credit scenes. And look, I know this is a heavy rewrite and making a cinematic universe is more complicated than this, but hey, it's the Multiverse saga and I'm talking about some what-if scenarios here. Now, I have two possible ideas for Avengers movies that could have culminated in phase four. first is obviously a vendor's secret invasion. In the comics, this was a massive crossover event with multiple superheroes turning out to be scrolls. But the TV show is more of a cheap spy thriller

with bad visuals and waste of potential. But think about it. This is the perfect vehicle for a Natasha led Avengers team. She's a spy going up against a race of spies. Her mentor, Nick Fury, covered up their existence and she's not sure she can trust him or anyone else. On top of that, there's no way to know who on her brand new team is a scroll. Her old friends are gone and what do we really know about the Shang-chi or Shuri. Maybe her first time leading the team in a crisis could even be a failure because of the Hulk. Right, right about their Hawk. Okay, so this is going back to who I think the Avengers should have chosen to sacrifice. When they were planning the time heist, it would have made sense to send Natasha with Bruce. The reason is, they care about each other,

remember? They used up all the hot water. I should have joined you. And the Avengers are under the belief that the Hulk is invulner. See, Bruce Banner fell off another high place in The Incredible Hulk, and the Hulk lived. He tried to swallow a bullet, but as he says, The other guy spit it out. Hell, even Bruce Banner fell out of a spaceship, didn't transform it to the Hulk and lived. So the Avengers would believe that the Hulk would be able

to take the fall and survive. And this is where it gets interesting. Yes, the Hulk would take the fall and the Hulk would live, but Bruce Banner would die. See, Natasha loved Bruce, not the Hulk. And so now we have this mindless hulking brute in the final battle in Endgame. This is something that always bothered me about endgame.

The Hulk doesn't ever get to do Hulk stuff. He's not smashing a single thing. Like, I appreciate that he's able to snap everybody back, but hell, Thor could have also done that. So we could have had Savage Hulk in the finale, and then Savage Hulk would be on Natasha's team. She would be able to guide and control him like we saw on Age of Ultron. Hey, big guy. Sun's getting real low. But this would also address the complicated feelings that she and Bruce had for each other, you know, instead of completely ignoring them.

Now, on paper, I think these two do make an interesting match. They've both done things they're not proud of. They're both haunted by their past. and Mark Ruffalo and Scarlett Johansson worked really well off each other in their town scene in Age of Ultron. And this last mission would have given them a chance to resolve that story, and Natasha could then mourn Bruce. So now, imagine we have Savage Hulk as an Avenger during a secret invasion movie. Think about how the scrolls could mess with his mind.

They could turn into Bruce Banner in front of him or other people from his past. They could have gotten the Hulk to go in a rampage, and suddenly Natasha's new team can't stop the alien invasion because they can't even stop themselves. So now we have Scarlett Johansson, very bankable movie movies. star who has been set up with a redemption arc in the saga. Now she has a true journey mapped out that can be a through line for Avengers Secret Wars. Or let me throw out another fun scenario for Avengers Part 5. Instead of secret invasion, do World War Hulk. So in the comics, this was the event that followed Planet Hulk. In the book, the Illuminati sent Bruce to space, where he became a gladiator turned

king of another world. Then after a bomb on the ship kills his wife, he returns to Earth with an army and wages war on all heroes to get revenge. So let's imagine an alternate Avengers 5 that actually finally puts a focus on the Hulk and Hulk-centric storylines. I think the villain here is obvious. It should be the leader. I know person, not broccoli head. No, no, no, hear me out. The leader is an amazing character in the comics. He is one of the Hulk's greatest villains. But the movie, Brave New World World gave us a neutered version of him. He's a super genius who knows all the probabilities, but let's face it, he was pretty easily defeated. So let's give him a real challenge. Let's have him manipulate world governments, free supervillains from prison. Let's have the leader

form the masters of evil, manipulate characters like The Abomination, Baron's Emo, Justin Hammer, Adrian Toombs, Baron Mordo, Mysterio, into coordinated attacks across the world. Let's kill off a hero early, let's put Natasha in over her head, so she feels lost and alone trying to fill the shoes that were left by Tony and Steve. And the whole time, she's also trying to control Savage Hulk. Maybe, and just saying here, she even asked his cousin, Jen Walters, to come and speak to the Hulk to try to see if there's anything left of Bruce in there. And then we can still say, somehow have the accident that gives Jen Bruce's blood, and so Shehulk would be set up in an Avengers movie before spending off into her own series. Maybe then the visual effects would be just a little

bit more polished. But I think the kicker of this should be that Natasha would have failed. She's unable to stop the leader's plan, but then Thunderbolt Ross steps in and is able to save the day. And this would be similar to the ending of secret invasion, when Norman Osborne kills the Skrall Queen and is made Director of Shield. And this led into a terrific event called Dark Rain, where the villains controlled the world's governments and super teams. The leader could also manipulate events so the Hulk would go on his rampage. He would kill tons of people to stabilize nations. So then, how would the world react to one of the Avengers becoming a villain? They would want somebody, like Thunderbolt Ross, to step in and create a new Avengers team,

a safe Avengers team, controlled by the government. Natasha would then be squeezed out, while the Avengers are restaffed with unstable supervillains. This is similar to what happens in the comics. The crossover secret invasion ends with Norman Osborne killing the Skrull Queen. Then he's made Director of Shield and ushered in a great event called Dark Rain. During that event, the supervillains became the Avengers. So then, maybe Avengers 6 is similar to the Thunderbolts, but with actual villains and anti-heroes. And that's the important thing here. Natasha could fail as her first time being the leader of the Avengers. And then, you know, we can have an arc that goes throughout the saga where Natasha is slowly

trying to redeem her failure as leader of the team. Now look, I'm not saying these are like the best ideas for Avengers movies. I'm just having fun. I'm spitballing ideas. But what I am saying is that if Natasha were alive, it could raise all of these really interesting questions. I don't think her story was done being told, and she should have had a larger role in this universe going forward. And I am not saying that characters should live forever. Sometimes a character outlives their usefulness to the story, and their death actually propels events forward. But Natasha's death didn't do anything for the story of this movie or this saga. I mean, it did create a compelling arc for Elena Belova, so I guess at least we have that.

Okay, that was really good. But what do you guys think? Is endgame a perfect movie, or should Natasha, have led, do you think the Hulk should have become a savage monster? Do you think that we should have had more Avengers films? Let me know down in the comments below or at me on Twitter, Blue Sky Threads or are free to join Discord server. And if it's your first time here, welcome to the channel, please subscribe, smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Airy.