ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - LOKI Episode 1 REVIEW and THEORIES - Can Loki Beat MCU Fatigue?

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

ScreenCrush Rewind tackles all the movie and TV hot topics, offering reviews and analysis of Marvel, Star Wars, and everything you care about right now. Hosted by Ryan Arey, and featuring a panel of industry professionals. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It's not that bad. I can handle it. How does it look? Hey, welcome back Screencrush. I'm Ryan Erie, and I cannot wait to talk to you guys about Loki Season 2's premiere. This is the best Marvel TV show I have seen since Werewolf by Night. I'm going to tell you all the reasons this show worked and tell you how the show's attributes really shine a light on the flaws of Secret Invasion. Like the first season, this show is bringing up all these questions about free will and determinism. And unlike Secret Invasion, it connects perfectly to a larger story of the MCU. I actually have a theory on how this episode has already set up Avengers King Dynasty and

Secret Wars that I am very excited to talk to you about after I talked to Colton Ogburn and Rachel Leashman to get their thoughts on this episode. I am so excited to cover this show for you guys all season long and to share these new Loki designs that we created at our merch store at Screencrushmerch.com. We've got the usual variance with the lineup of history's most egregious time travelers and we have this Doug as Loki shirt, Ms. Minutes Dolly Clock, and many more. The link is below. Thanks for supporting our channel. So Loki, as a show, has always defied expectations. Now, it could have just very easily been a serial of the week

with Loki gallivanting through time and causing mischief. Like the MCU's answer to Doctor Who. That's right. But instead, this show is an intense character study. It's the cruel, elaborate trick conjured by the week to inspire Theo. And for all the hours of MCU that we have, it's rare that we get this level of intense character scrutiny. I mean, there's Wanda Vision, Iron Man 3, Civil War, kind of.

but in this show, we really dive into why Loki is the way he is. Plus, the show expertly creates these mysteries and then pays them off so well. Like in season one, every single episode told a different story that offered another piece to this puzzle. Compare that to a show like Secret Invasion, where every episode just kind of stopped and the next one just picked up. Secret Invasion and Moon Night each felt like a movie that had been cut up into segments, but in Loki, each episode has an arc, and that arc furthers not only Loki's story, but the story as a whole into the Multiverse saga. Like in the opening to this episode,

like the story is about Loki fixing his time slipping, while also showing us how much his character has changed. Wait a minute. Something smells amazing. Well, I thank you. I got to tell you, it's actually... Doug, Doug, where are you going? I'm going to find what it is.

Doug, wait. Well, I was going to tell him that it's me that smells so good. It's you? Oh my God, gee, I thought you left, man. Yes, I'm wearing cologne. This is actually Scandal Wood by Dita Vantis. It's a high-end fragrance, but I was able to get it through scentbird.

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for your first month available in the USA and Canada. Thanks again to Centbird for sponsoring this video and check out our sample links below. You really do smell great. Thanks man and you need a bath. Now back to Loki. The first episode shows us how far Loki has come in the past six episodes. He now sees himself as the hero, desperately trying to stop He Who Remains. Or maybe he wants to help He Who Remains. And that's what I love the most about this season so far. Loki is in a real moral quandary. It was an impossible choice, but she seems so certain.

How could she be given the possible consequences? We never get to see this kind of conversation in most action movies. This is a show that uses philosophical questions to further the narrative in new and exciting ways. Like, Loki seems to genuinely. think that he who remains was right. And I think that all of this is setting up how this show is going to end, which feeds directly into Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, but I'm going to talk about that a little later in the video. So this premiere episode is very manic. There is a lot getting thrown at us, lots of timey-wimmy kind of nonsense. But for me, they explained this away perfectly.

Like, I think they resolved the last season cliffhanger in the best way possible. We weren't sure if Loki had gone to a new reality or if history had been rewritten, but the answer is so simple. The time traveler simply traveled back in time. So last season, set up this big mystery, but this season sets up an even bigger mystery. Who the hell created the TVA? How did Rivona meet Kang in the past? Has all of this happened before and is Loki destined to have all this happen again? So this episode introduces a lot of very weird, complicated ideas. For instance, there's retro causality when Loki is able to change the past and give Obie his nickname. May I call you Obie? Obie? Obie? I like that. This also introduces

the idea that the TVA and Loki and the MCU are all in one big time. which brings up the question of whether or not Loki is still following the script of He Who Remains, which I'm going to talk about in just a bit. Then we get into this complicated idea that Loki has to prune himself, like Obie explains. When something is pruned, it's released from time. So the hope is that after you prune yourself, the extractor will pull you into the present. But what makes this work is how they ground this quantum physics stuff in very real character-based consequences.

Loki does not want to turn into spaghetti. Mobius does not want to have his skin peeled off. you said, not too bad, and now you're talking about me getting my skin peeled off of me? And in between there, we have all these wonderful teases for this mystery, like when Docs talks to X5. The timekeepers are fake, but the warnings were real. I am just so excited about this season, but not everything going on here is great. Right, right of them in, you're the set of it's great. Look, the show's great, but I am a little worried that Loki's going to be too much like the show Asoka.

Now, look, I really liked Asoka, but to watch Asoka, you had to have seen shows like Star Wars, Clone Wars, Star Wars used to be targeted toward as broad as an audience as possible. Even in the Walt Disney era, you didn't have to understand too much of existing canon to appreciate the Force Awakens or the Mandalorian. But Asoka gave its viewers a lot of homework to do. And I think that the MCU might be barreling down that same path. Like, I don't mind. I watch and memorize like everything I see. But it's going to alienate a lot of people. Like, okay, the Infinity Saga was about six magic rocks. They were different colors. They had different powers. Basically built so a kindergartner can understand the fundamentals here.

Wong explains the Infinity Stones in a few seconds in Infinity War. These infinity stones each control an essential aspect of existence. But how in the hell can you explain the Multiverse saga, Kang, Loki, He Remains, Dr. Strange, incursions, and all of that in just a few seconds? Impossible. Anytime you start dealing with time travel and branching realities, stories are going to get really complicated. I don't understand what's happening.

But because of the Disney Plus shows and all this increased output, there is just going to be so much backstory before the next Avengers film. I know the MCU will find a way to catch people up really fast, but yeesh, man, this is a lot. The Multiverse saga is all over the place. So, I want to talk about my theory for how all of this can be tied up in the King Dynasty and Secret Wars. But first, the people I really want to talk to about this are Rachel Leashman, Assistant Editor at the Mary Sue and our own Colton Ogburn.

And just a reminder, everybody, Colton is the guy who is trapped in our television, but he does not know that, so please don't tell him. So, Rachel, want to hear from you first. So regarding the first episode of Loki Season 2, what were your thoughts on it? Did you like it? Is Marvel back? Is Marvel doomed? Or is it somewhere in between? So I'm a rare one that I don't dislike where Marvel has been. Like, I think it's been fine. But I really, really liked that first episode a lot. I'm a big Kimi Kwan fan, though. So, like, O.B, to me, is very data quoted.

Coded. Sorry, not quoted. Coded already. And so I really, really love kind of like the whole Obie, Loki, Mobius thing. I really love the time slipping and kind of the back and forth they all go through throughout this episode. I like how they're all just all over the place and all fighting. And I like how contained it really is. I think it really just like sets a tone. and it's to it. By contained, do you mean it's contained within the TVA?

Because a great thing about this episode is that the sets are pretty expansive. And like there's a lot of waters in there, too, where the cameras really got room to play around instead of being stuck in the volume. Is that what you meant by expansive? Well, I contained, yeah, like that it is just in the TVA, too. But also, like, the way that those trailers made it seem was like, I thought the time slipping was going to be a problem for a long time. But the fact that they were like, no, wait to fix it like right now. now he can't time slip further than like the end of this episode was shocking to me like I liked that it had a time limit and the time limit was you have an hour just kidding you have five

minutes figure this out and then they wrap that up very quickly so I liked this episode a lot I think it it set some goals and it completed those goals and I think it really kind of kicked off season two in a very different tone than season one but one that I don't dislike Like, it's different, but in a good way. Colton, how about you? What were your thoughts on the first episode of Loki season two? No, I really liked it. And, you know, I think I liked the first season of Loki more than most.

It's probably my favorite Disney Plus show. And I was really excited for it. Like, I felt this excitement that I haven't felt for Marvel in a long time. Like, I'm always excited for anything Marvel, but this was, like, a different level and, like, reminded me of, like, you know, back in the Infinity War in-game days, how excited I was for stuff. Yeah, I really enjoyed it to go off what Rachel said. I loved how contained this series feels like with Loki and Mobius

and then being in the TVA while simultaneously, like you could watch this show and not watch any of the other stuff Marvel is doing right now, yet at the same time, this show is like the most important thing Marvel is doing right now with setting up the multiverse saga. So it's really cool how they're, like, doing both things at the same time. They have this centered story that you can enjoy on its own, but at the same time, it is setting up so much for, like, King Dynasty, Secret Wars, all of that stuff. Like I said, I really love the chemistry between Loki and Mobius. I think that makes the show.

That's what makes the show work. It's like a buddy cop type of show. I really enjoy that. And it's complicated. It's a very complicated and confusing show. I enjoy that. It's kind of a pain when you're one of the people that has to, like, figure out how to explain it to everybody,

but I have fun with that. So my only hope is that it's not too confusing. But overall, I enjoyed the first episode. Yeah, and, you know, I think this episode did a great job, and you've touched on this, of, like, bringing it all, focusing on the characters. There's so much weird stuff going on. I assume a lot of weird stuff's going to happen, even just the concept of time slipping.

like I said earlier, was reduced to just, I don't want my skin peeled off. I don't want Mobius to get a skin peeled off, because I like Mobius, and I want to see him on a jet ski, right? So they did what Marvel does best, and they kept it closely tied to characters. I do want to talk about it being complicated, though, because while I think this episode did a great job of taking big complex problems and distilling them, Loki Season 1, which is fantastic, recently did a rewatch. Loki Season 1 never really did answer a lot of questions in a satisfying way,

if it's the sacred timeline. Why are there many timelines? Screencrush did an interview with Michael Waldron where he clarified it was what we theorized that it was like strands of a rope. That's still pretty complicated though. And then other thing, like not just the fact that time slipping is complicated,

but different kings and a king council in the multiverse and branching timelines. And Rachel is the multiverse saga too damn complicated for like, and should it not be like where you have to watch a Disney Plus show, second season of Disney Plus show to understand it? Yes and no, because they feel like the thing is that these are based off of comics.

So in theory, you're pulling from something that is rooted in complicated lore at times. And I think this is what people always kind of wanted was to get into the more complicated comic storylines and, like, multiverses are complicated. and, like, I don't know, I watched Doctor Who. So, like, I don't, it's nothing. It's not complicated.

So I, I think, and I don't know, I watched back to the future. I watched all of these tiny whiny things when I was a kid. I think it's very easy to do. I think when you try and, like, put it on the general audience to then have to, oh, you guys don't understand. Well, we're going to make sure we appeal to you specifically, this one person who doesn't get it, then you're dumbing down your show

to fit the one guy who's not going to get it? Yeah, absolutely, sure. And it doesn't, that's not fair. I'm not just talking about the timey-wimey stuff in this. What I'm talking about is when I go see Avengers Kang Dynasty, well, I have had to have watched, like,

it'll be like probably close to 60 hours of MCU programming to understand one movie. Whereas with Infinity War, they basically you know you kind of got caught up as you went there were six Macuffins and not all these you know what maybe four or five movies you had to actually watch before that

with this it just seems like the amount of information people have to absorb is kind of staggering do you think that's going to be too complicated for people maybe I do think though that like this is just becoming one of those it's just growing to a point where

eventually it's going to be that you have to kind of watch as much as you physically can and you have to be involved in that world if you want to be, if you want to go and see those movies and know what's going on. Which, I don't know,

I've always been that nerd that's like, okay, I'll do it. Like, I'm going to watch it. Like, if you don't want to do that, then that's totally like, well, that's within your right. But I'm the nerd that's going to, and I don't feel bad if you don't.

I just, yeah, I think what they really lacked, I'm going to use, I'm going to pick a multiverse of Madness, which you and I talked a lot about extensively here on the program. With Multiverse of Madness, they really didn't onboard people who didn't have Disney Plus subscriptions. And I don't think it would have been that hard. Exposition kind of sucks, but everybody's, we're talking about professional writers who have found many inventive ways to use exposition in their stories. Colton, what about you? Is the weight of the Multiverse saga going to hurt us? Like, who the

hell is even going to be the main character of Avenger's Secret Wars at this point? Well, you know, I am hopeful that Kevin Feigey and Marvel Studios that they have, they've learned from mistakes like with multiverse of madness and things feeling maybe a little confusing and like they didn't provide enough information. I think what Loki is going to end up being is it's a show that if you've seen it, that's great. And if you're like a hardcore fan like us. There's lots of information and, like, context and stuff that will make you enjoy the movie even more. But I think that you will be able to walk in to King Dynasty and Secret Wars and enjoy those films on their own. Like, and I kind of have a bit of an anecdotal experience

with this. I take my mom to every Marvel movie. She doesn't watch every show. She hasn't seen all of Loki and stuff like that. But she always enjoys the movie, and she, She doesn't have too many questions because, and maybe not here there with some of the films, but for the most part, they make good stuff, and it's fun, it's enjoyable. And they do provide, I think, enough exposition. I think something that would be fun, actually, for Marvel movies, now that the universe is getting so big, is if they did, like, a previously on, like, before the movie started. Oh, yeah.

That would be so cool. Or short film, like, even just the last thing to recap, yeah. Yeah, and it would be nice, even as somebody who maybe does see us, everything just to get like a little refresher on what's like pertinent to what you're about to watch. Yeah, I think that'd be a lot of fun. And speaking of who's like the main character of Secret Wars, we actually have a video out about that right now talking about how Loki could be. So be sure to check that out.

You said Loki was the new Tony Stark. Yes. Yeah. So. Which makes sense. Because Rachel, you know, when you're looking at the MCU and you're going, well, they don't have a Tony Stark. They don't have a main character.

So who is this person? Loki's a great candidate for that. Do you think so? Sure. I do like that there is straight up a person who has an Iron Man suit in the MCU, and you're like, not that person. Well, because being the new Tony Stark doesn't mean you're the new Iron Man, you know? Right. Like, I don't think that necessarily Sam Wilson has to fulfill the same role as Captain America, you know, that he fulfilled in the past because he is his own character, you know? Yeah, fair. every good story i think has a character that you know has to go through a moral struggle and like

find them in their inner self and that's what we had with tony and i i think that's what we're getting with loki i see that now i see the vision right rewri williams i look more like she is the new peter parker because peter's kind of matured and he's older and now we have this new character who is the science whiz who's you know struggling with the superhero identity in different Yeah, and you look at the MCU movies and the MCU shows, and they're very different. MCU movies are meant to appeal to as wide of an audience as possible, whereas the shows, really since Wanda Vision have delighted in this, like, mystery of the week, this cliffhanger, Loki Season 1, filled with mysteries, we love speculating on.

Loki Season 2, even more mysteries. So I think the theory crafting on this show is going to be amazing. So, Colton, you know, we've talked in our Easter egg video about these connections to Wanda, mentioning like, Hex on Post-it notes in the end. we, I talked about how I think the whole season's in Oroboros and a big loop. Do you have any theories after this first episode, like where in the hell this is going? What's happening? I think that, you know, like you said, in the first season of Loki, lots of mysteries and stuff.

And then we learn that Loki and Sylvie, they've been walking down a path that he who remains paved. Like, they were doing exactly what he wanted. And I think it's possible that that is still happening right now. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we learn that. comes secret wars, everything has been going according to plan for Kang or he who remains to ascend to power. And then it's secret wars that becomes the moment that everything gets flipped on its head. I even think that King Dynasty and us getting to see the Avengers versus the Council of Kings or whoever, I think that is all part of that multiversal war that is crucial to

his plan and part of the loop for everything to happen again and again and for him to end up at the top. See, I actually think the opposite. I think Loki is already the outlier and that this is what's different from all the other loops before. And I'll talk about that a little bit more at the end of the video. Rachel, how about you? I know you've seen more episodes than us. Do you have any hot theories without, you know, keeping it spoiler-free for us? I won't spoil anything. So most of my theories, here's my approach to Loki as a show, which is insane. I'm Team Thruple. I want everyone on this show to make out with each other, and I've Ben, that way is in season one.

And the way I watch the show is off the rails. I'm always like, cool, so Mobius and Loki can go make out. They never do. I was like, so Loki and Sylvie can go make out. They did once, and then it ended badly. And then I'm like, all three of them should just make out. I think it would just... I mean, Ravona's in there, too, because Ravona and Mobya.

I'm just saying, like, if we're writing this movie... Everyone's making out. But, and then not Ms. Minutes, though. I don't like her. I don't trust her. But I don't trust back a lot. But the whole show, I just think, like, everyone would be happier if they kissed. So all of my theories are about everyone on that jet ski, and that's about where my mind goes.

And so, like, that's, like, literally all of my theories just go back to tying to, like, Mobius and his jet ski. because like I think in season one it was about the jet ski too and I do like that in season two that is still where I'm at because in that first episode X5 is like what's this and pulls out the jet ski I'm like we're back they're still talking about this jet ski and that is only where my theories lie because I am not smarter than the writers of Loki and I recognize that so all of my theories are just like I can figure this out

He loved the ocean and water. And those are my parents. Now, I know you're joking, but for real, if I were going to bet on the final image of this show, it's totally Mobius on a jet ski. They've clearly set up his character's desire from, like, his second appearance. But all three of them is my dream.

Like, all three of those characters on a jet ski, just, like, riding off... Or, even better, like, the end of the Batman, when Catwoman and Batman go into different directions, put all three of them in the water on jet skis, that's perfect television. Colton, how about you? Did you have any other theories for, you know,

in the long term, how this series is going to end or how it's going to, like, unfold into Kang Dynasty or anything like that? Like, what is the series going to end up trying to tell us? Well, I know we're kind of half-joking about the jet skis and stuff, but I do think that's what's great about Loki and like old school Marvel it it only works all of this like timey whimey multiverse you know all of this stuff it only works if you care about the characters and

what their goals are so I love how well the Loki series is very grand and scale I guess it's still a very intimate show so as far as like theories I think that that theme of the Loki series being an intimate show about Loki about his longing to find his glorious purpose. That could play into some theories in terms of how Loki plays into this bigger war, his confrontation with King. As we talked about in the Loki Tony Stark video, I actually theorized that I think it's going to be Loki who goes toe to toe to with King. I mean, I think that is why they picked this character out of all characters to introduce all of these concepts like the TVA, the sacred timeline,

all of that. I think it's because Loki is the best character to demonstrate the overall themes of the multiverse, like loss and regret, tragedy, and being able to overcome certain things. So theory-wise, I think we are definitely going to see this season lead into Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. I don't know that we're going to see a season three before we get those movies. And I think that lead will be maybe Loki getting, like, going to Thor or something from 616, maybe in a post-credit scene. I'd love to see them together again.

Maybe we'll get to see him with Dr. Strange. I just think it's time that we start to see these lines kind of intersect. It's time to get Loki into the multiverse saga with everyone else with Spider-Man, Thor, Dr. Strange, Ant-Man. So I hope that's the direction we go come the end of season two. Now, actually, I agree with you and I also disagree with you. I think Loki is going to be crucial, but I also think that Loki is already off the beaten path of He Who Remain. So I want to talk to you guys about that theory. Colton, Rachel, thank both of you for joining me.

All their socials are linked below, follow them on all of the things. So in our Easter egg video and In Tomorrow's Ending Explained, we talked about how this entire season looks like it's an Oroboros or a time loop. Or what do I mean by that? Well, okay, stay with me here. Loki travels to the past, where the TVA is ruled by. by a Council of Kangs, meaning that at some point, He Who Remains does take over the TVA, and he's killed leading to the rise of the Council of Kangs,

who then ruled the TVA. It won't stop. So the TVA was on a giant time loop, just like He Who Remains warned. Start another multiversal war, and I just end up right back here anyways. But I think that Loki is going to be the one who breaks this loop.

He is not part of He Who Remains' Plan. The whole point of him loring Sylvie and Loki to his palace was because he didn't know what was going to happen next. But now I have no idea, no idea how the rest of this is going to go. And like in mythology, Loki is the trickster god, the chaotic element that is the catalyst for change. He kicks off Ragnarok, he formed the Avengers, etc.

So look at this episode. Oraboros says to call him OB, and he says, I call him OB, that's like a nickname I have, yeah. So Mobius, or someone else in the past, gave OB that nickname originally. But we see Loki traveling to the past and giving him the nickname. Boroboros, may I call you Obie? Obie? I like that.

Meaning that Loki changed the past. We even see him changing the past in real time when OB suddenly gets new memories. So we now know this should not be possible in the TVA. There is no past TVA. And Loki's name even comes from the word lock or loop in Norwegian. So his own character development is going to be about him breaking his own vicious cycle. So when he who remains brought Loki and Sylvie to him, Loki was like 100% convinced that He Who Remains was right. He probably would have

decided to take his place. After all, Loki is a power-hungry megalomaniac. That's his role in history. But his character development and his love for Sylvie made him break that loop. And so, He Who Remains died. But afterwards, something new happened. Sylvie used the He Who Remains tent pad on Loki, causing him to time slip. So now, Loki finds himself returning to the loop where the Council will take over the TVA and then he who remains will kill them. And then it happens again and again and again. But now, Loki is actually affecting the past of the TVA.

He can change things. So what if this season he actually learns to control his time slipping? In fact, maybe Sylvie can help him since she has He Who Remains Tempad. Now, we're not sure what Loki's going to do with this power, but we do know that he wants to prevent multiversal war. Now, that multiversal war is what leads to he who remains creating the TVA and the sacred timeline. But Loki also wants to free the variants who are needed to maintain the sacred timeline. So this is where Loki's newfound role as a hero is going to come in.

I think he's going to destroy the TVA in the past before it can be formed. He is the only person who could do this because he is able to time slip. And without the TVA, the Council of Kang's cannot control the timelines, which will lead to a multiversal war. But here's where I think this is going to be different. The Kang Dynasty is going to be about Kang winning. And I think because the TVA was destroyed, Kang is going to win very easily. Because then, Avengers Secret Wars will likely be about Kang establishing one single reality, one planet,

where he rolls over a patchwork of other realities combined, which in the comic book was called Battleworld. The creation of Battleworld is what's different here. It's where the loop breaks. Instead of Kang using the TVA to rule over a sacred timeline of many universes, as he who remains, he will rule over one world, which will make it easier for the heroes to team up, defeat him, and then Loki is going to end up being the main hero of the Multiverse saga. Your savior is here! Well, guys, that's just my theory. What do you think? Let us know in the comments below or at me on Twitter.

And if it's your first time here, please subscribe, smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Airy. Thank you.