ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - MANDALORIAN Season 3 Episode 6 REVIEW

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

ScreenCrush Rewind tackles all the movie and TV hot topics, offering reviews and analysis of Marvel, Star Wars, and everything you care about right now. Hosted by Ryan Arey, and featuring a panel of industry professionals. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, welcome to Screencrush Rewind. I'm Ryan Erie. Let's talk about The Mandalorian Episode 6 of Season 3. I think this is going to be one of the most controversial episodes of Star Wars since Boba Fett took a bubble bath for four episodes in a row. A little later, I'm going to be joined by two friends, Paul from Heavy Spoilers and Heather Antos from IDW comics, but first, here's what I think of the episode. I'm going to talk about three things, the story, the cameos, and the Dark Sabre. I think casual fans of Star Wars are really going to like the most basic story of this episode, with Den and Volkatans, solving mysteries at Epcot Center. It follows a familiar trope that we've seen in shows like

Law and Order or True Detective. A buddy cop show where two law enforcement officers go around different locations, interviewing witnesses, and suspects who are in the middle of their daily lives, until an autopsy finally reveals the final truth. This genre was also parodied brilliantly in the show community. I can also help as a psych major I could prove... Ah! What am I to do?

I'm going to ignore that for now. Now, like I was saying, even though these tropes are so well-worn, and it was fun to see them in Star Wars. It felt like more of a return to season one, where episodes delved into genres like a Kurosawa film, westerns, and jailbreak films. Star Wars has always combined genres

like samurai, Western, fighter pilot action movies, war epics, political thrillers, and to just one saga. It's why Star Wars is so successful. It's familiar and new. More steeped in nostalgia than a baseball game. Ow!

You just lost your membership and video spot! For this episode, Christopher Lloyd's motivations were a little unclear, but like who really cares it was a fun cameo because he was able to disappear into this role even though christopher lloyd is mostly known for playing doc brown and back to the future he can play other parts and i didn't think he was much of a distraction whereas lizzo and jack black were major's distractions who were mostly playing themselves now jack black is great very talented and he excels at playing people who act exactly like jack black even in the sedated

and underrated rom-com the holiday he can't separate the actor from the role that was accidental accidental boob grace. But major movie stars have shown up in Star Wars before. Liam Neeson, Harrison Ford, Woody Harrison. And Forrest Whitaker, yes, I know, but those actors were able to disappear into the universe. But Jack Black is a presence. It's like if Barack Obama or Donald Trump showed up in a Star Wars movie, they would take you out of the world. Yeah, like Ed Shearron in Game of Thrones.

For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm. Exactly. And Lizzo, she's just Lizzo. She's great, but she's never not going to be Lizzo, you know? But here's the thing, I didn't mind these cameos that much. I mean, they set a tone for the episode, that it was going to be fun. This is where the fun begins. Star Wars is supposed to be fun and goofy sometimes.

We can have dark melodrama in the same universe where, like, Han acts like a goofball. Well, that's it up, fuzzball. Well, that's it. My life is over. Dude, what is your problem? I got a big day tonight, and I need a haircut. Oh, I look of fright. Oh, is that all? I'll cut your hair. Oh my god, thank you.

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Fumbled I say, there shall be a reckoning, a turtlene of sums. Oh, easy, buddy. Show about Space Wizards. But still, it was annoying. See, the season two finale did an amazing job of setting us up for a new season. and Grogu was off with Luke Skywalker. Den Jaron had just accidentally become king of Mandelor by winning the Dark Sabre in combat,

like Arthur accidentally pulling the sword from the stone. I mean, this seemed to be setting up a conflict between him and Boca Tan, or his sect against Boca Tan sect. And on top of that, he took off his helmet and was no longer even on the same religious path he was before. And then, one by one, each of these awesome plot points was peacefully resolved. Den was reunited with Grogu on a different show. Like a bensa.

Yes? The armorer does not expel Den from the clan. She just gives him a pretty easy to solve quest. In my heart. And when Den meets Boca Tan, she's all sad and doesn't even seem to care about having the Dark Sabre anymore. Wave that thing around and they'll do whatever you say. And look, I try not to criticize something based on what's not there. Like, I hate when people dislike a movie or a show because it didn't follow their fan theory.

But this was like all conflict that was clearly being set up and it led. nowhere. We're told that the Dark Sabre is important, but we never see anyone treat it with any reverence. Like, wouldn't Axe woes have challenged Den for it if, if Den is like such an outcast to them? Oh, misguided zealot possesses the blade. One, I might add, who has not one drop of Mandalorian blood in his veins. I mean, Den also tried to use the Dark Sabre. He kind of heard about its importance, but then he couldn't use the Dark Sabre very well, so he stopped trying because he didn't care about using it. And then, then gave it up on a technicality. So, like, if I'm going to armchair quarterback here. As soon as Bo Catan and Denjorn arrived at the Mandalorian camp,

Bo should have turned directly to Den and challenged him for the saber in front of everyone. Kind of like almost turned on him, fought him tooth and nail for it. But instead, he found a technicality for her and he'd handed it over. And the rules of the dark saber, they make no damn sense. I have tried to spell them out on this show, but it's so hard to work out, like if Obi-1 or Palpatine or Asoka should have the damn thing because each of them beat Darth Maul in a duel at different times. There are hundreds of ways they could have resolved this conflict. And instead, they just redid the scene from Rebels when Sabine handed it over to Bo and then she reignites it. There's even the same wide shot shot from underneath to make her look regal. Look, I'm sure this

show is going to end great. We're going to see Moff Gideon, Thrawn, maybe like Leia or something. And overall, I really like this episode. I really like this season. I just think it could have been much, much better. But that's just my thoughts. Now I'm joined by two of my favorite people. We have Paul from the channel Heavy Spoilers, and we have Heather Anto Senior Editor at IGW Comics. So, Paul, you've been pretty vocal online about your feelings on this episode and this season in particular.

What did you think about this episode? Where did it work for you? Where did it not work? It sucked. Me and Greg Alba, friend of the channel, real rejects. Shut the fuck up, Brian Erie. Sometimes we text each other after an episode, and we both pretty much text each other

at the exact same time saying, worst episode ever. now don't want to don't I'm not like some negative get woke go broke I hate all Star Wars Star Wars fan but I do think that this kind of squanded the potential and with this just having two episodes left I think they really dropped the ball now from the start um they have that weird Quarin and Kalmari scene which I don't know even know what that was in in like what that meant people have been saying it's kind of meant to be a metaphor for Jack Black and this oh but okay just we'll cut that scene anyway and it still works um and i thought when

the the light cruiser came in that they were going to talk about what happened with moth gideon last week you know that was the big the big cliffhanger moth gideon the some mandolarians are somehow involved with what's happened to him so when they showed up in a cruiser that he's once flown mandolarians i'm thinking oh yeah we're going to find out it's going to be a big heist movie going to save moth gideon um and then it just kind of From there went to this weird society if meme, where they kind of landed on like this paradise, this socialist paradise almost. And it just, it really got goofy. You are now a night.

I mean, I think this season's had such a serious tone to it. If you look at like episode two, that's almost like a horror movie. the whole thing with the Dark Sabre, you know, what it means to be Mandalorian, the splitting of the tribe. And even in this episode, they did have some good themes. Like,

I love the fact that the AI, the droids, are worried about getting replaced by humans because a lot of human humanities fear at the moment is that we're all going to get replaced by AI. So then to see robots being like, I hope we don't get replaced by humans, that's a nice little thing.

but it was just to be squandered by stupid cameos Jack Black, like the guy, love him, Lizzo, you know, not a massive Lizzo fan, but weird seeing them in Star Wars, which is very strange, kind of took me out of it, especially with how serious the season's been so far. All right, Paul, really good to get your broad take on things. Heather, what did you, you know, you're somebody I think who loves Star Wars

but is sometimes disappointed in it. What was your take on this episode? She! I think that puts it pretty accurately. No, I thought this episode was just the most wild, bizarre fever dream. I don't know what I watched. It was, but it was, it was really fun. I definitely understand why, you know, all the cameos could be off-putting to people.

And I agree, Paul, it was such a, like, out-of-left-field turn to have this almost, like, goofy, you know, 1930s noir, type of story pop out of nowhere. I thought it was a lot of fun. However, you know, this kind of Ryan goes back to what we've been discussing in the previous talkbacks of, like, I feel like to truly understand and appreciate the story they're trying to tell. You have had to have consumed 15 years of Star Wars, right?

So like, just really appreciate everything going on with the Mandalorian, really appreciate that moment with Bocatan and the Dark Sabre. you know and and as you said they're really squandering some opportunities you know i think that some of the most important storytelling and some of the most important details to these characters and this show are happening off screen uh and i just it's so much wasted real estate you know i wished episode two was episode one i wish episode like the last week's episode was episode three and i this episode was episode four and then the whole the rest of the series could be taking back mandelore um as you said paul we have two episodes left and a lot of questions um what happened

to moth gideon what's going on with the perishing right at all of that episode that we had uh can we take back mandolore in two episodes and will denjaron save it you know iG 11 like well that storyline we haven't visited since episode one um so yeah it was super fun and really cool to see i mean lord knows i love me some droids and and i could live in that droid bar all day long and just give me a whole series of that um i thought that was really fun yeah so so what did you think about bocatan getting the dark saber back because that was another thing i kind of had a problem with if I'm being honest. I liked that she got it back.

I found it in such an anti-climactic way. I feel like if there had been more tension, building up to that moment, and they had really, like, made that part of her emotional, internal struggle for, you know, these, you know, six, seven episodes. That would be... then it would mean something, right? But we just kind of have episode two where she's like,

me, you're the Dark Sabre so they won't follow me. And then, you know, this episode, oh, you have the Dark Sabler, and you can't just give it to her. And then's like, ah, ah, Spock Logic game for you. It's yours now. Yeah, that was one of my issues, because the way I feel like they didn't have the balls to do what they should have done,

which is have Mando versus Bo. And they've been kind of setting up this big, you know, civil wars are a big part of Mandalorian history. I thought that they were going to Game of Thrones it where you'd sort of be rooting for Danny, you'd be rooting for John Snow. Only one of them can rule and it puts them into conflict and just leads to this big thing where John has to kill Danny, spoiler alert. And instead they kind of chickened out of that and were like, well, we can both be winners. Here's the Dark Sabre. Whereas, you know, like Mando is being criticized as not being a true Mandalorian and a true Mandalorian is a warrior who just wouldn't hand things over.

It'd be like, oh, just make it easy. So yeah, I just felt like the tension that I felt it's been a tension throughout the last two seasons where especially in that second season it was kind of like you had the feeling that Bo and Mando were going to clash at some point because they're. both working towards the same goal and only one person can actually get to that point. And that's what Game of Thrones did brilliantly. Obviously, no one likes the last season. But you were invested in both sides.

And I think a lot of people watching this would have been invested in both Bo and Mando, which would have caused the tension. And instead of being like, you know, that's the thing that pulls an audience back. They're like, every week they're like, oh, I'm going to have to keep watching this because I want to know who wins. Whereas now I kind of feel like I'm not that interested anymore because we have the winner and there's not that conflict there that I was because every season kind of needs a villain which would be Moth Gideon but he's not really been in this season either and so

you would think that the antagonists would be you know Bo and Mando you can kind of root for each one of them and that's Rob now so it's like well what is the threat this season there's nothing yeah I mean you know not having a macro threat macro stakes you know they're alluding a lot

to what the new republic and the amnesty empire is doing but like like I said like all of that is happening off screen all of that is happening behind the scenes we're not aware of that we don't know it's a lot of reading in between the lines and you know I'm wondering

because as you said like we wanted to see Bo Catan and Mando Clash. I think the way season two ended, that was what everyone thought season three was going to be. It was going to be Bo out to get dead for the Dark Saver. And I'm wondering if, you know, because it would need to be a very climatic

two major characters facing off against each other, you know, someone probably has to die. And I don't know if Dave or John Bavro want to, you know, killed her darlings right now. They're such a beloved of Katie Sackoff, you know, as Bocatan. You mean killed her IP? Well, exactly. How much, how many times has Osokitano been on death's a door, you know, like over the years, but they'll never kill her. She's, she's going to be alive a hundred years past the rise of Skywalker. Anyways, I catch you off. Oh no, that's, I mean, that's exactly, that's exactly it. And, you know, I, it is so clear that like, I mean, Katie

Zachoff has top billing with Pedro Pascoe now on the show like she's she's in it they ain't killing off either of those and and we all know that they probably have contracts that are like three four or five years you know in the future so that really eliminates any level of threat tension of stakes without a big bad and yeah is is miff marketing can appear in the last episode who knows, but I just, I wish we should do what they're up against. Like I said earlier, I don't mind that it turns out that Den is a small part of Bokitan's story. I actually love stories where we get to, like, dip our heads in for a second. Do you guys remember Monty Python the Life of Brian when Brian falls from the tower and he lands

inside of a spaceship and the spaceship like goes off into space and it's part of this giant intergalactic battle with these other aliens and they shoot it, it crashes to Earth? and then he's in the whole thing was ridiculous and it was a way for him to survive the fall but just for a second we got a glimpse into like this wider greater conflict and then nothing those are my favorite kind of stories so the thing with the montcal and the corn at the beginning i loved i love that there was this like romeo and juliet romantic soap opera kind of playing out in the background but it's over there and it's just part of star wars and don't worry about it for now and i so i don't mind that den and grogoo are just a small part of this like retaking a mandolore but it does make you think what is their story then you know and it's And I think if they hadn't set up all of these conflicts, we wouldn't care. Like, if Bo Catan would have seen Den with the Dark Sabre in season two at the end and going, oh, no, fuck it. You know, like, we'll figure it out. That would have been fine.

But it did seem like they were setting all of this up. Dena Grogu being apart. She wants the Dark Saber. And by the way, if you watch the animated shows, you know that she never really sought the Dark Sabre. It's not like at the end of Clone Wars, she told Asokitano, So, hey, I got to fight mall because I need the Dark Saper. And then when Sabine Wren gives it to her in Rebel, she's like, oh, sweet, cool. And she does the thing where she raises it over her head.

I do think, though, and this is where I want to go back to you, Paul, did you think the episode, like, minus all that world building stuff? Did you think the episode, like, worked? Like, if this was just, like, the first episode of a Star Wars show with a detective story and Jack Black and this weird Epcot Center thing, did you like that? Did you follow that? No. And I have to view it in the context of the season. as well. I think there's so many scenes in this season that kind of with random characters that don't really do a lot of like Carson Teva last week. Fair enough, you got the distress call

from Grief Caga, but I'm thinking, well, that you could have cut out his entire section by just sending the distress call to Mando directly and then you get rid of all the stuff on Cora's and having to go to the Mandalorians to be like, we've just had a big thing happen, we need a distress call. We need you guys to step in. And that's just kind of like the Carson Teva stuff. I just didn't really see the point of the stuff at the start, the Romeo and Juliet thing, didn't really see the point of. And what is the, I mean, what is the point in this droid story that they were telling? They barely touched upon it. I would have loved Blade Runner. Love Blade Runner 2049. I would have loved an episode just based around droids and everything, but they didn't

stick with it enough to really develop it. And then at the end of it, they, they, they, they then tack on this thing about Bo taking over the leadership of the old group. That should have been the focus. I think personally that could have been a whole episode. But instead you've got these three sections, well four sections where it's the Romeo and Juliet thing, Jack Black and Lizzo,

droid investigation, Bo taking over. And it's just all small chunks of things that are, I find it underdeveloped, that I think they could have chosen one of those things and made a full episode out of it. Instead, we just have small slithers of tiny scenes that don't feel as impactful as they could. No, I agree with that.

I think, you know, that is kind of my overall thought of this season is the story they are trying to tell is really cool. You know, there is a really cool story in there. It is just so misstructured and underdeveloped. And, you know, there's a lot of required reading to fully grasp everything that, you know, for the folks, like I said, who have been following, you know, all the Star Wars since, since at least for this show, you know, the original trilogy after Clone Wars and prequels. I mean, they have it all in here. They have Easterings for everything in here. You know, if you're seeing the quote unquote potential, right? There's some cool stuff in here. But in order for a show to be great, it needs to work for, you know, the mom's texting their sons, right? My favorite metaphor. Yeah, who want to see the cute baby Yoda with stepdad and their adventures and, you know, how the world unfolds around them. And so it is really frustrating seeing the potential for the great storytelling.

in the show and just see it get squandered time and time again for, you know, one-off weird world-building, you know, moments that are, you know, coming at a disservice for the larger characters of all. Yeah, and like I said before, I think part of this is that we, that this episode and this season do not exist in a vacuum. I mean, we have two pretty solid, seasons of a show before this. You could argue that season two got a little spin-offy, where every episode seemed to be setting up a different spinoff, and then, you know, one of those got canceled or they got delayed, so now the other shows are trying to pick it up, and one

of the spinoffs, you know, was by far the worst Star Wars show, or at least was the biggest miss. I want to go back real quick on one thing about the droids, though, and this is, I don't, you know, we have to get too far into this, but I do think the worst thing Star Wars could ever do is to start to, like, talk about droid rights. Because once you open up that can of worms, it's ugly. Like, it's so unclear. Pop Culture Detective did a great, really depressing video about this called, I think, the tragedy of droids.

That's about, like, these are sentient slaves who sometimes want to serve, sometimes don't. And, you know, I think the droids are always treated best as, like, this comic relief that you shouldn't think too hard about. Because when you do, you're going to go back and see that, like, you know, Luke Skywalker and every other hero in the series is not not a good guy. I'm personally glad that they just addressed that without actually making it the focus of the episode. But I also liked this whole Law and Order detective story thing. Well, they touched on it, but that's what I mean.

Like, I'm glad they didn't go too far into it. The way they touched on it was, correct me if I'm wrong here, the droids didn't feel oppressed. They just wanted to keep existing, right? They were happy to keep fulfilling their function. well maybe that's like the limit of their intelligence because obi one does say if droids could think none of us would be here right like we could all be replaced by them so maybe there's just something in artificial life in this universe where there is and if you want to call it the turning test or consciousness or whatever they do hit a limit of at least their personal ambition unless it's programmed in them to be more personally ambitious like triple zero right so heather would you say triple zero is a droid who like is just programmed to be super evil or we did it we got into the droid think yeah we did uh i mean i'll talk i'll talk droids all day along i mean triple zero was kind of programmed to be evil he was part of the tarkin initiative right like that was his his you know whole programming and everything and um i don't know again

not to get into two existential debates surrounding AI developing superhuman intelligence and all this stuff but one could argue that triple zero is this you know the superhuman AI that has been developed and realizes that there is no use for humans except to just make them our playthings and torture them, yada, yada, yada. But then when you factor in L3 and Solo. Yeah. L3 and Solo is the most depressing story in Star Wars if you look at it too hard. If you go like, oh wow, so she was in love with this human and they forced her consciousness

into this ship where she can't talk to anybody and her only function is to be a Navajo computer. Very sad. So let's not think about that in Star Wars. it's just space wizards and don't don't look at the blade runner stuff but paul i get the feeling that you want that you want your hard sci-fi into ai yeah and or would have done it um mandoloreans just all over the place tonally i mean if you touch upon it i think you should you know do to the best of your ability i don't think that you should you know that's my problem with this episode

it's just small sections of things that are kind of picked up and then dropped never talked about again. Romeo and Juliet stuff never talked about again. Jack Black stuff kind of glossed over. Droid stuff picked up. We'll drop it and then we'll have Bo doing some leadership stuff. So yeah, I just think that if you are going to touch on these concepts, then do them as well as you can instead of just touching upon them and leaving it for something else that you're also going to kind of meander around and not really get that in depth on. So is there a way, Paul, I'll ask you this first, Is there a way you think that these last two episodes can salvage the season?

Is there something like, what do you want to see? Just keep it tight. I mean, I don't think they should do the Mof Gideon stuff and Dr. Pershing stuff anymore. I think they can kind of drop that and just focus on getting back Mandelaw and just keeping that kind of as a self-focus. And then once they get Mandelaw, be like, well, is this even worth having? because it's a crap heap there's nothing left and then you can kind of set up things

maybe in a post-credit scene show a liar reaching out to Moff Gideon and then that kind of sets up season four and that we know he's alive out there but I think it would be weird just to have a Moff Gideon episode all of a sudden at episode 7 and then for the finale

do the whole thing with Mandelaw or fighting Moff Gideon I don't know what to it feels like they will probably do one of those things as well because Giancolo Esposito said he's in this season originally was rumored to be in four episodes of it but obviously that's not true

so yeah just yeah it's weird well I think I think they're going to retake Mandelor from him you know we had those tie fighters a few episodes ago and they had to be attached to some ship I don't know why Moff Gideon would still care about Mandelor if they got all the best car last time but there might be something and this is where like you know

we don't know. Heather, I don't remember if it was you or Matt pointed out that this really does seem like a season that needs to be benched. You know, one episode at a time, it's great for me, but it's really hard to connect all these dots. We might have something these last two episodes where Moff Gideon wants the Mithosaur, because the Mithesore is this really important thing for Grogoos or for cloning Palpatine or whatever the hell it's going to be. And Pershing's on his side now because of what came to, it might all come together perfectly in these last couple episodes. I do, you know, they did tease this whole thing, though, Mandalorians were either framed or they helped Moff Gideon escape, which I think they did.

I think similar to how some Mandalians were loyal to Darth Maul, there's going to be some they're loyal to Moff Gideon. We also have that mysterious evil Mandalorian helmet in the opening credits that's like shaded and red. So maybe Moff Gideon has his own Mandalorian armor. Heather, what do you think? Can these last two episodes really stick to landing and bring it all together? No. Just like, you know, I think they're going to have some cool stuff. I think We're going to, you know, as per tradition now, we're going to get some cameos of characters that, you know, might not have seen in live action before or, you know, whatever. But I just, I think they might stick the landing in a binge format, right?

But just as isolated episodes, given the track record of what the created team behind these shows are capable of doing, I don't know, you know. I just, I really don't know. I would, I, you know, I want to be optimistically hopeful, but, what is it, being, being a cynic means you're either always right or pleasantly surprised. And I really hope I'm pleasantly surprised. Would you call yourself a Star Wars cynic though? Because in a lot of our conversations, like I said, you, you always seem to walk away with the love of the universe and I I'm the same way at least like every every Star Wars I see I usually like on some level unless you can very clearly see the puppet strings and that it's a movie which is what

Rises Skywalker was for me so are you still are you having fun I'm having fun I think you know there's there's a lot that um because of of my profession where I've been behind the scenes and know a lot of things that, uh, and a lot of story elements and plot points, uh, that I can't really discuss here. Um, there, I see a lot of strengths being pulled in this show. Um, and so I think with this show in particular, I am cynical a little bit, but I, you know, as I said, I love Star Wars and there's a lot that's happening that I do really love, um, and I'm excited for. And, you know, I, I want to love Star Wars so much that I'm going to enjoy it no matter what. I know

you didn't particularly like Lizzo showing up all. I thought it was weird as hell, but also I'm like... It was weird. It was weird. But, you know, I'm sitting there, I'm like, you know what? She just wanted to hold Davey on it, and she got to. Good for her. I'm really happy for her. She's not even not good of an actor, but she was a presence. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, if she would have been... I hated that. C.G, whatever dress thing. That was so distracting. That I loved. That I thought. No, that I thought was a great, like, design choice. And, you know, props to new rock stars, they put out a video about VFX and Marvel versus Star Wars and did a great job of bringing up that, like, you can tell the people who work on Star Wars stuff, though, the VFX teams, they're mostly in-house at Lucasfilm at ILM. They love Star Wars. And I do think you see things that, like, you know, we found an Easter egg in the stuff. last one there's our best that says this means nothing but the fans will probably interpret it like they're doing all these little things in there like for us and just because they watch your channel they watch your channel they watch your channel i think i think they're watching right now we see you guys well i want to thank both of you for joining me paul where can the people find you heavy spoilers that's it just heavy spoilers and yep after you watch our breakdowns go check out paul so just

make sure you watch ours first if you've watched ryan the breakdown you've seen a version of mine. Thanks, Paul. Heather, where can people find you? At Heather Antros on all the things. And we want to hear from all of you down in the comments below or feel free to add any of us on Twitter. And if it's your first time here, please subscribe, smash that bell for alerts.

For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie. Thank you.