ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - MANDALORIAN Season 3 Episode 7 REVIEW: Was a Great Episode Worth the Wait? | ScreenCrush Rewind

Episode Date: April 15, 2023

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Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Hey, welcome back to Screen Crush. I'm Ryan Erie, and I want to talk to you about the seventh episode of The Mandalorian Season 3. All season long, we've been hearing a lot of pushback about how this season is too complicated or how it's super weird structure as alienating casual fans. A little later, I'm going to talk to two of our writers, Bevin and Colton Ogburn, to get their thoughts.

But first, I want to tell you what I thought about this episode. It was awesome. But I think for a lot of viewers, maybe it wasn't quite worth the wait. Now, like I said, I pretty much love this whole season, but I am a really easy to please guy when it comes to Star Wars. So far, I mean, like my only gripes this season are that Den and Grogu reunited on another show, and they kind of tossed away a potential storyline when Den handed the Dark Sabre to Boat Tan. But you know, this is me critiquing what was not in the show instead of talking about what was in the show. And there is so much to love this season.

The show has widened the scale well beyond the story of Den and Grogu, which for some people is a drawback. No, I don't like you. But as a Star Wars fan, like, look at everything we've got in this season. Coruscant under the New Republic, base pirate ships, the Order 66 flashback, Grogu, Hugging, and Anzellan. And in this episode,

we are finally witnessing the rise of the First Order. I always hated how the Force Awakens suddenly introduced a new empire with like no good explanation. This line in the opening credit just doesn't count for me. And now we're seeing the nuts and bolts

of how this era between the trilogies was formed. And now we've learned that all of this is leading up to a feature film directed by Dave Filoni culminating all these different shows. As a Star Wars fan, I am in heaven. But... But what?

Everyone I know has a big butt. We have made a few videos about the blowback on this season, and I've shared some of those sentiments. The three cliffhangers from season one were resolved pretty quickly and quietly. We had the Dark Sabre, Grogu's return, and the consequences for Den removing his helmet. And none of these stories were resolved in a particularly satisfying way this season. Now, there have also been rumors that the higher-ups of Lucas film, maybe Kathleen Kennedy, forced John Favre to reunite Den and Grogu in the Book of Boba Fett. Rumor has it that he wanted to keep them apart for several episodes.

Now, normally, I put zero stock in rumors because it always seems like a lot of toxic fans would just find a reason to hate Kathleen Kennedy. But in this case, the rumors kind of ring true to me. Fabro is an expert storyteller, and I don't think you would have planned for their reunion to happen so quickly. But I do believe that Disney and Lucasfilm would want to keep Grogu on The Mandalorian Show for as long as possible to sell toys. I mean, this is probably why he also got his IG12 meck suit, but I love the thing so much that I really don't care and I'll just buy the toy. I have done nothing wrong ever in my life. know this, and I love you. Now, all of this reminds me a lot about what happened to the show Twin Peaks behind the scenes. David Lynch and Mark Frost created the super weird, wonderful show

with this central mystery, Who Killed Laura Palmer? And the nation was captivated by this. There was even an S&L sketch about it. So, when fans wrote letters to the network demanding to know who the killer really was, the network forced Lynch to reveal the killer too early, which completely ruined the show and the ratings took a nose dive. So it seems like Lucasfilm might have done the same thing by rushing the reunion of Den and Grogu. But like I said, Let's look at what we have instead of what we don't have. This season has had some high watermarks for the show. Heck, I didn't even mention the creepiest hell droid using Deng Jaran for a Mad Max blood bag.

We take my blood bag. We take my blood bag and struck into the Lancers perch. But the structure this season, the way these stories were told, has really frustrated some casual Star Wars fans. Remember, like Baseline, there are people who thought this was a space cowboy show with a cute puppet sidekick. A lot of really casual fans thought that Grogu was literally Baby Yoda and didn't realize that the show takes place after Return of the Jedi.

So like, that's the starting point for some people on this series. So you kind of need to go slow and spoon feed them some of this greater lore in a consistent way that emphasizes, you know, what a character wants. If we understand what a character wants, then we can empathize with them. So for seasons one and two, Dent had very clear quest, keep Grogu safe and to return him to the Jedi. But this season, his quest was resolved in two episodes, and the focus kind of switched to Boca Tan. And this is where we start getting into problems. See, I love Boca Tan, love during Clone Wars, love Katie Sackoff and Battlestar, but I think the show could have done a better job introducing her to the general

audience. Her backstory has been told to us and not shown through dialogue and another show. In the book of Boba Fett, the armorer, says, She once laid claim to rule Mandelor based purely on blood and the sword you now possess. And like, this was all really confusing for people. We didn't understand why her people took off their helmets and why dense people didn't and why these people were so different from one another. But this episode had basic information that should have been presented like way back when she was first introduced. For instance, we never really understood the extent to which these Mandalorian sex were divided. The children of the watch think Bocatan's group don't walk

the way, but her group really looks down on Den's people. These primitives make up their own rules for everything. But Moff Gideon, of all people, is the one who gave us the key line that we needed to hear way back in season two. Those two factions are sworn enemies. That one line brings the rest of the season into such sharper focus. If we would have known about these divisions, like as soon as Den and Beaumet, or when the armorer told him part of their history in the book of Boba Fett, then this whole time we would have thought that these two were always on the brink of fighting. There would have been an underlying tension throughout the season. But sometimes, isn't it better to not review all the information early on?

Oh yeah, mysteries are totally great. You want to keep the audience guessing. But this is not a mystery to tease out for the season. This was information that kept people from fully engaging with the characters on this show. Again, I'm fine with it. I know what's going on. I got Grogu in a mex suit and an Admiral Thron name drop in this episode. But that analytical part of my brain just won't shut up sometimes.

three shut up see every season of this show has had self-contained episodes that seem random at the time but then they all come together in the end but this season widened the scope of the story and so although self-contained stories were not always about den and grogoo so i think that there needed to be a more delicate balancing act for instance look at andor so like this season of the mandolian andor had several self-contained arcs but within those arcs we were cutting between several different characters quite perfectly actually we even did a video about how andor use their flashback so well and the book of Boba Fed did not. So this season of the Mandalorian did this weird thing where in a single episode we would get a B plot, then an A plot, then a B plot,

and then a B plot in the Persian episode, or an A plot, B plot, A plot in the founding episode, instead of intercutting between them like in different episodes. In the founding episode, it worked pretty well because the story of Grogu, the founding, tied in well with the foundlings trapped in the nest. But I think the Pershing story could have really been teased out throughout the latter half of the season to slowly widen the scope of this story. I will admit though, I mean, look, I am nitpicking. I love this episode. And I am terrified for what's going to happen to our heroes in episode 8. So the key question is, was it worth the weight of this whole season to get to this episode?

But that's just what I think. I am joined here by two of the best two writers here at Screencrush. We have Bevan and Colton Ogburn. So Bevan, I want to ask you first. Like, you heard everything I said about the season. I think it's not very easy for like your typical casual fan to understand. And I think they could have just done a better job along the way getting the audience there. So this episode, I want to know what you thought.

And, you know, if you liked it, was it worth the season that we had to get through? Well, pun intended, this is the way I like to see my episodes in the Mandalorian workout. It was exactly what I wanted the season to be. It was very kind of Game of Thrones-like in the sense of we got to talk to each faction. We got to, you know, build an army to go and reclaim our territory. And then there's like a hint of, you know, a betrayal. But in terms of worth the wait, I think for us, Star Wars Geek, it is worth the wait for a normie, kind of to Ryan's point.

I think it just depends on if they made it this far, you know. Is this another rings of power circumstance where one and three didn't even, you know, only finished it and two-thirds did not finish out the season? Okay. Well, Victoria, though, but go back to like the rest of the season. You know, you haven't been on the show for a while. So do you think the whole season as a whole has been well balanced and paced out well? Like, what are your thoughts on that?

Well, I think there's a couple of episodes that could have been kind of bled together. You know, like, for instance, I wrote down the episodes. Like the foundling felt like a filler episode to me. You know, like guns for hire is something that, you know, I know you guys talked about that in depth. And guns for hire felt like that could have been tagged on to like the spies or the Navarro episode where they kind of come down and rescue. Navarro from the pirates. Like I thought the pirates was building up, oh, they're going to, you know, lay camp there. But then they don't like the next episode, oh, but wait, we're going to take over, we're going to take over Mandelor at that point. So I thought that was a little weird to set up that they were going to find a new home in Navarro, but then decide to go get their home.

I don't know. That was a little weird and filler-ish to me. But in addition, we've also had some extremely cool highs. I mean, like the Grogu, you know, Foundling, sorry, the Grogu Order 66 episode, one of the best, you know, moments and reveals in the whole show. Like I talked about these earlier, so Colton, you know, how about you? Did you think this episode delivered on, you know, a wonky season? Do you even think the season was wonky? Well, you know, the season didn't go the direction that I thought it would.

I thought after season two that we were going to see Bo become essentially the antagonist. And before Boeufet, I didn't think that, I certainly didn't think we'd be. seeing Grogu in the book of BobaFed. I thought that'd be kind of like a mid-season thing or maybe like a penultimate episode. This was the penultimate episode. I thought by this time in season three, that would be when we got Grogu. Overall, I would agree that this season, it's been a little messy, I guess you could say, maybe from like an editing perspective or just the order in which they've put stories into different episodes. And like, you made a good point that they probably should have combined a few things here and there. But scene by scene, I've enjoyed the season. I've had fun.

I mean, going back to like season one, the Mandalorian was like an old Western. It was like bottle episodes. Whatever their mission was, that episode was essentially concluded by the end of the episode. So I've kind of enjoyed that. I've come to expect that with Mandalorian and I've liked that. Um, so no, I don't think this season has been bad. I really don't understand all of the pushback. It's been getting at all. But I really enjoyed this episode. I like that this episode brought together everything from this season. Even like little things that people may not have enjoyed or complained about, it all played an essential role in this episode and getting to appreciate this episode. We have these little teases like, oh, Gideon might be around. We've had. the Pershing episode, has all of that been too scattered? Like, the Pershing episode was two, three episodes ago. At this point, are people still going, oh, right, so that's why, because it was so unclear what was going on in that episode for some people.

They may not remember Pershing that well, because that hasn't been seen for two years. Should the season have been restructured, Colton, in some way, to maybe check in with these stories more constantly, A little bit more like Andor, where we would check in with Cyril and the ISB agents and Andor and all these other characters kind of continuously throughout the series. Or do you think that these little bottle episodes still function within the show? Well, originally when I thought season three was going to be about retaking Mandelor and, you know, Dinn versus Bo and all that, I didn't think that we'd be getting back into the clone stuff at all. And I'm glad we are. But that episode in season two, it's like episode four when they see the Snoke-looking thing in the tank.

I thought that was yet another somehow Palpatine returned. They were just like, oh, Jesus, put something in there to try to be like, oh, yeah, they were working on it. It's not as random as it seems. I thought that's all it was. So then when we got episode three of this season and it was Pershing, I was like, okay, they're following up on that. I like that. I like they're incorporating Grogu. And like, I liked that for episode three, they at least had Mandalorian and Grogu and Bo at the beginning and end.

But I do think that can be a real turnoff for a casual viewer. Like, Walking Dead did that where they would, you wouldn't see Rick for like three episodes or like after the whole Negan thing happened. It was like two or three more episodes before you caught up with, well, how is our group reacting to what happened with Negan? And it just kind of makes you lose interest. So, no, I'm not a fan of it from like an editing perspective. I think it would have been a lot better to say, okay, we've got our story, we have little things here that we want to incorporate.

Instead of just being like, oh, let's go over here and talk about that, just kind of intertwine it and just kind of cut in between, have the different things that you want, you want that information provided to the audience, sure, but interconnect it better with your storytelling because, I mean, people are watching it because it's the Mandalorian. They want to see Den, they want to see Grogu, and I'm all for putting all this other stuff in it. enriching the story. But yeah, I would agree that the way that they are unfolding it and with there being like nearly a season in between, like it was episode four and then episode three between the two clone things, that's way too long. People are like, who the hell is that guy? So yeah, I would agree. If it's going to be such a major part of the story, they definitely need to construct it better in the writing and the editing. Bevin, do you think that this episode was a, a great payoff for all this. Do you think that, like, for your casual fans, that the season now

makes sense? You know, in what ways do this episode succeed? And in what ways, you know, do you think maybe it should have shared the love with the rest of the season? I think where it succeeded is it finally brought back a true baddie, like a true bad guy. Moth Gideon coming back around and taking like a front row to the narrative and being proactive. I think that was a big win for this episode. I think we were waiting for him to come back. And I think, It intrigued me more when he came back in and he started interacting and you started to see what the empire has been doing. I think that's been a big win. To even hear the monologue that Bokutan says about Mandelor, how they were so powerful that nobody on the outside could defeat him.

It's only within themselves that they get destroyed. And I think if they had focused maybe that quote around. the entire season. I think that would have been very powerful because everyone can understand like interfighting. That's what House of Dragon does really well. Game of Thrones does really well. So I mean, that's why I think this episode is really strong. Well, and the symbolism with Gideon being there. He's been there all along. Yeah. Oh, that's true. So in that way, do you think that the show is saying that the divisions have been there all along, that the secret evil has been buried underneath the surface of Mandalore? Because it's within themselves,

Colton? Yeah. You said it way better than I did, but yeah. You know, and Bevin, to your point about like this was one of the first episodes of the season where I really felt for the characters in a way. I've always enjoyed the story and there's a few moments in seasons one and two like when Grogu gets taken and you know when Den comes after Gideon and says well you have means more to me than anything else in the world like those moments that can really rip your heart out in this show and I think this season because it's been a little devoid of conflict you know den got to bathe in episode two it's been fun but it hasn't necessarily hit me in the

feels, Bo Catan's speech about her failure, and then when Den, like, gives her that pep talk and says, What means more to me is honor and loyalty and character. Incredible. Like, for me, that's the payoff of their kind of building friendship throughout this season. Yeah, I mean, I'm happy with this season, and I'm fine with them doing what I didn't expect. I think it's a little obvious that, behind the scenes, they had different plans personally. I think that's pretty obvious. But I'm happy with it. And just because they didn't do what I thought they would do, yeah, to your point, I like being surprised, especially in this job. You know, we usually speculate. And then a lot of the times, you know,

we're right. And then it's like, yeah, we kind of saw that coming. So it's nice to be surprised. To Ryan's point, Star Wars, I feel, is at its strongest when it deals with its characters and its relationships with each other's, especially when it comes to family. And family was dealt. Found families, especially. Found families, yes. I think the trick is, you know, with with this show, especially because you guys covered this as well, that the viewership of the show has been down.

So what is it that needs to happen to build up that hype? And I think as long as the season ends really strongly, people will come back for an additional season and go to the scene of movie. And that's the thing about the viewing, the ratings being down. It's still going to be on Disney Plus. There's some people who might just be waiting until the whole season is done. And frankly, I think they're going to have a better time watching it than some of the audience who's been watching an episode by episode. Because I think if you were to view this episode in one day, it would make perfect sense.

Week by week, it's a little bit won't ask you, this rumor, and it's as far as I know, not even backed up by like any mainstream media, but there was a moment. a podcast where this person heard a rumor that John Favreau and Kathleen Kennedy clashed over this season and that she forced or somebody in Lucasfilm forced the Grogu reunion to happen in Book of Boba Fett, whereas Favro preferred to keep them apart for a few episodes this season. Do you think that holds water? Do you think that makes sense? You think there's any truth to that? I mean, I definitely think there could be some truth to that because I found myself thinking it was an odd choice to put basically two Mandalorian episodes in the book of Boba Fett and something behind

the scenes had to have gone wrong no matter what it would be. And there might have been in pressure. I don't I don't know if people behind the scenes actually anticipated how huge Grogu was going to be as a character and they might have panicked and said, oh my God, we can't keep these two apart. People are going to lose their minds. Even though I thought it was a beautiful ending to have Grogo I would have been fine with Grogu staying with Luke for and make me miss him and then bring him back when I've missed him for a long extended period of time. And then it'd be a real heightened moment. Like you could have even had Grogu with Luke all the way up to the movie. I was going to say it sounds like the people in the suits decision.

I mean, I have a hard time believing that the two guys that made season one and two of the Mandalorian made the book of BobaFed. that has always baffled me. I mean, yeah, I guess everybody has a bad day at the office, but having essentially two episodes of the Book of BobaFet be Mandalorian episodes, that sounds like a, you know, a non-creative, strictly look at the numbers type of decision like, hey, this this Mandalorian guy, he's really popular and the baby Yoda kid. Yeah, put them in the Boba Fett show. Yeah. Oh, you don't want to. I don't care. Do it. That's what that decision sounds like to me. I don't know if it was Kennedy. It might have been even higher up than Kennedy.

You know, somebody at Disney saying Grogoo sells a lot of toys. We want him in Boba Fett. We want him in Mandalorian 3. Get over it. It felt very shoehorned. And don't get me wrong, those Mandalorian episodes were the best episodes. They were. Yes.

Yes. That makes so much sense to me now thinking about it that it was probably a top-down decision and kind of out of their hands. No, I really feel like. they closed up Grogu's arc so beautifully at the end of season two that I don't think they plan to bring him back anytime soon. And then, of course, he grew in popularity and then things change. You know, and one thing I take comfort from, you know, we get on here, we watch the episode, we make our Easterig videos, we do our theory videos, we come on here, we complain about the episode like all Star Wars fans. But no Star Wars stays bad forever. It's incredible. Like,

now there's all this nostalgia for the prequels, Amad Best, Hayden Christensen, both kind of getting their accolades right now, which is awesome. I'm even kind of hearing, like, from some people, like, casual fans loved The Rise of Skywalker. They thought it was great that Palpatine was at it. And I think eventually, maybe after these shows justify that weird creative decision, we'll like it too. Like, no Star Wars is something I can hate for very long, or even dislike for very long. Even Book of BobaFaFaFa, you're talking about it now, and I'm going, I should rewatch that show. That had some good stuff in it. It had, you know, Boba Fett riding to Rancourt,

and I got cyborg teenagers doing a twirl for no reason, and, you know, Cresanton was there with Jennifer Beals. I mean, come on, it wasn't all bad. I would gladly watch Attack of the Clones with you right now. I don't like that movie, but I enjoy it. Does that make sense? I mean, there's lightsabers, and you and McGregor, and it's fun. I don't know.

The Yoda moment at the end, oh, man. Right. So good. And there's always something about Star Wars that seems to resonate with us on a personal level, which is why I think when something doesn't resonate with people on a personal level, be Luke and Last Jedi or somehow Palpatine returned, we tend to take it very hard, very personally. The Mandalorian for me, this season is not that. This is just me like going back, looking at it in hindsight, and going,

that's kind of weird how they structured that, you know? So I really think I'm nitpicking with a lot of my choices, you know, with a lot of this, my criticisms this season, but I'm kind of trying to be the voice of the voiceless, the people who, like, are casual fans and don't necessarily know the history of Boca Tan off the top of their head. And the thing is, I mean, the numbers don't lie. Okay, this season, I guess, has lower viewership. But like you said, maybe people are waiting to binge it or something like that. But in terms of all of the, like, negativity, I would say, you know, the most toxic, people are always the loudest, and they love to bitch.

And that's what they do. And you're always going to hear more of the hate than the good. I mean, that's just how it is. So I think that could be another thing with this season. All right. So I want to get the final thoughts and predictions for the finale. Bevan, what are we going to see? What's left to see?

I really just want to see Groger wheeled lightsaber of some kind. I don't think I'm going to get it next episode. I think I eventually will. They just tease me with Yoda's lightsaber in the last season, but eventually I'd like to say, I think he is going to go and rescue him, and I think that's going to be, you know, fun because Din got

captured at the end, so now it's Grogu's turn to go in and guns ablazing and get him out. So I think that will definitely be a thing that happens. I definitely think we're going to get a reveal on who the spy is, the betrayer is, and you know, it could be the armor. I think that's the

most popular fan theory out there at least i think it is um might be skinny pete yeah it could be you don't cast skinny peek just to be skinny in a boat you got a he could be the spy yeah i think we're gonna get a spy i think we're gonna get a tease to asoka whether that be thron i think they're just gonna set up for what is gonna come up for the movie what this movie's gonna look like because i know we're winding down din and grogoo's journey that was announced that they are going to That story is going to get closed out with the film, and I believe that's coming up next, so. Well, sub-question then.

What about the rumors that Pedro Pascal is leaving the show, and maybe Den will get killed off? Because, among other things, he's not happy with the direction, and he wants to take his helmet off. Could this be something that we see happen? Or does that mean the whole season's going to end with all the Mandalarians getting permission to remove their helmets? Colton, what about you? Do you think what do you think we're going to get, and do you think we're going to say, bye-bye, Denjaron? that's the first time I'm hearing that rumor so I don't know maybe they beat them in with a golf club I don't know um spoiler alert yeah I might want to say let me start over now you can say that I don't think I don't think anyone who doesn't know

yeah we'll understand that spoiler true maybe a best car golf club I don't understand what's happening yeah that's like a dirty joke in SpongeBob's square pants kind of thing. The kids don't get it, but the adults do. So I think we're all good there. All right. That's funny. In terms of predictions, I mean, the mythosaur, we've got to see the mythosaur. They've been teasing that. I think that's going to happen. I think we, you know, like I mentioned a little earlier, I really think we may hear a Darth Mall name drop. I think that would be fun. I mean, just to kind of throw something out there, I don't know if this is going to happen, but I could maybe see Moff Gideon dying.

and then Thron show up or maybe like through a hologram or something and like threatened Gideon tell him he needs to get in line or maybe maybe Gideon escapes but then Thron kills Gideon like sends in his uh his bombers or whatever and gets Gideon I could see that happening them wrapping up the Gideon story and then transitioning into Thron being the the big bad and I think that'd be a cool way to do it have the the new big bad take out the other guy and kind of say, no. Thanos and Loki. Here I am.

Yes, exactly. And then Snoke comes in at the end of the movie. Sorry, Ben, go ahead. No, no, I was just making a joke. Then Snoke comes in and then kills Thrawn at the end of the movie. And then Snoke is the big bad guy. And then some... Always a bigger fish.

And then some alpathy. So, all right, guys, I'm going to wrap it up right there. Colton, where can the people? find you. Oh, you can find me on Twitter at Colton Ogburn and videos here on Screencrush. And Bevin, work, and the people find you. I'm on Instagram at Bevin Bat Spice and not really on Twitter, but sometimes I'm here on Screencrush as well. Well, none of us are on Twitter for long. So if we want to hear from you guys, what do you think about this episode? What do you think is going to happen in the next episode? Let us know

your thoughts down in the comments below or at me on Twitter. And if it's your first time here, please subscribe and smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie. Thank you.