ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - MARK WAID Talks "Superman," and apologizes for writing THAT Batman Story

Episode Date: August 10, 2025

Comic Book legend Mark Waid sits down with ScreenCrush to share his thoughts on James Gunn's Superman, and apologizes for making Batman invincibleSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You know, now we kind of take it for granted that Batman has this idea that he can take down every hero, which we kind of saw in Dark Night, but Tower of Babel is about that. Yeah, I'm really sorry. Okay, I look back on Somme, work and go, it was a good idea at the time, but oh my God, I've unleashed a monster. Hey, welcome to the Screencrush Crossover Universe podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Heather Antos. I'm here with my co-host, Ryan Erie. Ryan, how the heck are you? I'm great.

I know we're going to introduce him here in a bit, but I am so excited for our guest. And in awe that one of my idols is going to be on here later, and I can't wait to talk to him. I'm not trying to hide who he is. His name's in the thumbnail and title. But, yeah, things are good. This is what we call the nice time at Screen Crush. We're kind of between big shows and movies. We can have lofty ambitions and plan ahead.

Got some stuff planned on the channel coming up. I'm excited for people to see. And, you know, just in general excited about my job. How about you? What's going on? Oh, man, you know, coming down off the highest San Diego Comic-Con. And actually, when this episode comes out, I'll be at Boston for Boston Fan Expo and just about to head out to Toronto for Toronto Fan Expo in a couple weeks.

Wow. If you're watching from Toronto, come. and say hi at Toronto Fan Expo. Yeah, Heather, Heather's a fun visit in a booth. She'll draw you a little something. You're always really fun to run into a Comic-Con. The other night, I saw a movie for the first time. We were talking like, okay, what kind of movie we're going to watch tonight?

And that was my pick. Okay. So much pressure when you get to pick and your partner wants them to put whatsoever. And I was like, holy shit, I still haven't seen Creed 2. And I love the Rocky movies. Every, I don't think there's a bad Rocky movie, even the ones that are bad. And we hadn't watched it yet. Have you seen Creed 2?

I haven't seen any of the Creed movies. They're so, well, so far, two out of three are so good. I've heard. I can't, yeah. I can't believe we covered the movie, but I adapted like an article that Matt wrote. And I just hadn't watched it, which is nuts. It's so good. It's a perfect continuation of Rocky 4, which was, of course, a ridiculous movie where he fights a Russian

and there's three montages in it. It's terrific. If you're watching it at home, if you haven't seen this little indie flip called Creed 2, please check it out. So that was an exciting thing. I've only seen a single one of the Rocky films, and that's the OG Rocky. I'm not a big, like, sports movie person. Yeah. So, but I mean, I've heard they're fantastic.

I've heard the Creed films are fantastic. I mean, Michael B. Jordan, right? Like, what's not to love? Right. So one of these days, it'll be a plane movie. Usually that's when I watch all the movies that I should have seen is on planes. Yeah. So.

I want to go to Australia. just to have time to watch movies. Yeah. You want to watch all the extended cuts of Lord of the Rings. It takes up the entire length of the... I don't think that would last for that entire flight. I might get through like two towers if I did that. You know, the best sports movies, like the original Rocky is like this.

The best sports movies, you could take sports out and replace the character drama with anything and it would work. And that's what not all of the movies do very well. Yeah. I'm telling you, like when I say some of them are bad, but I love them. and you're like Rocky Five, absolutely terrible. I don't mean to talk about a franchise you haven't seen. But when we talked to Claudia Gray, you guys talked about Jane Austen novels a lot, and I was very polite.

I didn't try to cut him. I can smile and nod. It's totally fine. And I'm ashamed I haven't seen or read a Jane Austen apart from, no, I don't know if I ever have. And I'm not proud of that fact. I'm wrong for that. Well, that'll be your playing movie. You'll watch a Pride and Prejudice, so.

Yeah. Well, maybe I could wean myself with the zombie version. I want to do that. No. The book. Have you read the book? Yeah, I want to do that. Oh, that's too bad. What a great premise. I know. But, you know, copyright free, we could write around, right? Yeah. Speaking of someone who has come up with some great premises, should we introduce our guest? I can't wait. I'm so excited. All right. Well, folks, I mean, you've seen it in the thumbnail. You've read it in the title. Our guest today is the incomparable Mark Wade. Mark is an account. American comic book writer, New York Times bestseller, most known for his work on, you know, a couple of DC heroes you might know as The Flash or Superman.

He's written my personal favorite Superman comic kingdom come, but he's also known for his work on Marvel, Captain America, Fantastic Four, Daredevil. The list goes on and on and on. Justice League. Justice League, Archie, right? He's worked on Archie. I have every Archie comic he's ever done CGC graded 9.9. I'd bring them out, but they're not allowed to touch.

So, yeah, let's welcome Mark Wade. Mark Wade. Hey, hey, I'm here with Heather and an illiterate who has never read Jane Austen. That is true. That is true. I have not. And I think about all the terrible books I have read and I've not read Jane Austen. And I haven't even read probably every comic you've ever done yet.

So I'm way behind on great literature. Well, look at all the joy you have and head of you to wait for you. I'm so happy to be alive to slowly. Exactly. Oh, man. Mark, I don't know. know if I've ever actually mentioned this to you. We go way back. You, you know, we first worked together 2015 on a little comic called Princess Leia and that inaugural right relaunch of

the Marvel Star Wars stuff. And this was my first like professional publishing job, you know, for being an assistant editor on those books. And I just have to say, I have never been more nervous in my life than my first week assistant editor. Like, I don't think I, even had like my Xerox passcode yet they were still going to be set up with everything Jordan was on vacation that week so it's just me and and I get an email where it's like hey can you call Mark Wade and give him these notes because we had an issue going to print that week and I'm just like oh yeah Mark Wade okay sure that's fine and you were so sweet and you were so kind. And, you know, I just, I want to thank you for, you know, being one of the best, truly.

You're very kind. As a professional peer, everything. And of course, because it's, I've sat on that side of the desk. I've sat on the side, I've sat on the other side of every desk in comics, but I've sat on that side of the desk. I know as a freelancer, a big part of my job is to make your job easier. So you can go home at five o'clock. And I, I knew, look, I came. And I came. into Princess Leigh embraced, knowing we would get notes. In retrospect, I am stunned by the lack of notes we got. You know, I did note they got more and more, you know, thick with each passing issue, but, you know, early on, we didn't have much.

And it's not my sandbox. Yeah. Look, I'm here to play. I got to put the tools back where I found them. That's part of the gig. So I'm not going to fight with Lucas films over, you know, I have no kills to die on there. Can you refresh everybody watching maybe who, who. hasn't read those in a while, what that Leia arc was.

Is that her in the aftermath of Auderon? You know, you have these three films, right? The original trilogy. But Leah's home planet, everyone she's ever known, got blown up to smithereens, and it was never really addressed. No, she never got a chance to react on, you know, other than a brief moment. But I, so the premise of this one was, well, it's an interstellar colony. There are other people from her planet out there.

So as princess and now then by de facto queen, right, it would be her job to travel from world to world and assemble those people, let them know what happened. That's what I remember of the story. Heather, is there anything else you can fill in? You created one of my favorite new characters on the Star Wars universe, Yvonne, who later took leadership over the Alderman Colonies. So I love her. And gosh, we got to work with the incredible Terry Dodson. So, so good. Yeah.

Terry and Rachel both. And I got to meet, I got to meet Carrie Fisher. So she was at convention in Indiana, not long after the issue came out. And people came up to me with it signed and it would have a little glitter on it. And without fail, I would look up at them and they would have glitter on them too. And they would have an expression on them like, like, because apparently Carrie liked. to just throw glitter at that convention when people would show up.

That was one of her many. I asked the show managers. I said, look, I'm curious. Like, I don't have, like, writers in my contract or anything like that, but she's a celebrity. Surely she does. And he says, well, actually, she doesn't have any writers,

but her dog, Gary does. Gary was there for a little dog. A little French bulldog, right? Yes. He had his own team. talent writer for shows. Exactly. So Gary's writer included two pints of vanilla ice cream. Yeah. Every night, some fresh chicken and... I think Coke, right? Like, there was... And diet Coke. Yeah, diet Coke. He had Diet Coke in his writer. And so I, I, in my world, I assume this is like Gary number four. It's got to be. And I say, don't dog lives on that. But she was delightful. I mean, you know, I mean, she wouldn't have remembered me five minutes later. But it was, you know, she wouldn't have remembered me five minutes later. But it was, you know, you know,

She was, I mean, Batchett crazy, but delightful. I mean, I'm jealous. I worked at a summer camp where her tid, where Billy Fisher went, and, not Billy Fisher. And, yeah, so I knew her, because she kind of was in her film class, but I saw Carrie Fisher at her at the circus. She was, like, sitting up on the top row, and that was kind of, like, enough for me. I felt like I couldn't get closer to her without being, like, rebuffed by all the awe I have for that character, you know? Right. And that comic, I mean, it must be.

strange for you, or nice for you, I guess, to have contributed to the character's canon and to hear Heather talk about, oh yeah, and then this character went on to become the leader and all these other things, like to start the ball row and to contribute to that larger story. That is nice. I mean, that's really the reason I like doing this. I mean, I like doing it because I get paid. I like doing it because I get to play with the characters. But I also like doing it because anytime you can leave a thumbprint in the mythos, whatever you're you're working with that then somebody else picks up on, then you feel like you've done something.

You feel like you've left some sort of legacy, whether it's, you know, the speed force or the S means hope or whatever it is. It's just nice. That's a good feeling. Yes. Can I ask, so you got your start as an associate, as an assistant editor, correct? Yeah. Associate editor.

Yeah. Associate editor, sorry. So you wanted to work in comics, I'm assuming. But when you were growing up, what was your book that made you go, I want to do this? Like, what was the comic that pulled you in? But, well, I mean, the comics that pulled me in as a fan was Batman. It was because I was old enough to just be there at age three as Adam West showed up on the TV screen. And my dad remembered his Batman comics and thought I might be interested.

And I was a precocious kid who learned to read at a really early age and then skipped a couple of grades later on. So I was hip to Batman comics pretty early on. But that wasn't, that didn't make me want to be in comics. I was just a fan. And then somewhere along the line, I knew I wanted to be involved in comics, but I wasn't sure what that looked like. I had no ambition about being a writer. I really didn't.

I just didn't think you could come up with that many ideas that often. I didn't know how that worked. Wow. And then I went to see the Christopher Reeve Superman movie, the first one. And at that time, and not to lay it on too thick, but at that time, I was in a really dark place, really dark place. as a kid. I was in a divided home. Neither parent knew what they were doing. And it wasn't physical abuse or anything like that, but it was still, and again, a couple years ahead in

school, so I didn't have any friends, really. And I was just in a place where I really honestly felt like nobody cared whether I lived or died. It was a really dark place. And I went to see that movie. And I sat through it twice. And it came out of that movie theater, knowing that whatever I was going to have to do with the rest of my life. It was going to have to have to do with Superman. Well, that's so nice. It really, and it took me a while, you know, it took me until I was an adult to really pin down exactly what it was, but it was that, you know, I went in thinking nobody cared about me, but Superman cares about everybody. It doesn't care what you are, who you are, he cares about everybody. Yes, I know he's a fictional character. I knew he's a fictional character

back then. I'm not crazy, but he still affected me. And that is something I've carried for. to this day. So then I knew I wanted to be in comics, but I still didn't want to be a writer. I wanted to be an editor. I wanted to be the martinet. I wanted to be, you know, that the guy who can make things happen behind the scenes. And I was there for a couple of years at D.C. and I'm terrible in an office situation. I'm just, I'm, I have my issues with authority. I'm impulsive. I am not great. I'm, I'm an introvert. I am not great. I'm, I'm not great. office. So if you look back at my career, you'll see short two-year burst of time where I've worked in an office and then left. So when I was there, what was happening was I was getting

all these scripts across my desk because I was editing the anthology books as well as a couple of like Legion books and other things. So I was working with every single great writer in comics at that time from, you know, Grant Morrison to Alan Grant to, you know, Jim Owsley. Is this 87-ish we're talking right now. 87, 88, 89, yeah. I mean, the people running through D.C. at that time, you're right. That's a murderous row of talent, yeah. So getting all these scripts across my desk in such a short period of time, it was like boot camp.

I learned more about writing comics in those two years than I would have in 10 years on my own. So when I left staff, Brian Augustine, who was my best friend and that or there, wanted to make sure I had food on the table. So he would throw me a little thing there and a little thing there. and then Flash came along, and I've been incredibly lucky ever since. Flash came along on time for once, is what you're saying? Yes, on the time for once, exactly. And again, I mean, I did have a couple of stories printed before then, but nothing that I can really look back and go, oh, that's awesome.

As a matter of fact, the first one came out exactly 40 years ago last week. That's wild. Wow. That is how long I have been doing this. That's quite a legacy and to hear that, you know, really this passion, this inspiration really truly started with the Superman Christopher Reeves film, you know. And now today, I would say in the comic book world, your name is almost synonymous with Superman. It seems to be. I'm, I couldn't be happier.

And I got to tell you, seeing that movie and seeing my name on a street sign that is giant. It's not like, oh, that little thing in the background. No, no, no. It's like. You can't miss it. This huge thing in the film, you can't miss it. That was, what an arc for my life. Like, from a guy who was inspired by that first movie to be at that point really just felt like, okay, I guess I did something with my life.

I have to say, you know, to just personally, like, my favorite Superman comic is one of yours. It's kingdom come, you know, it's also, it happens to be the first Superman comic I ever read, but it really set the bar. of who Superman, you know, is as a character to me that, you know, despite it all, he is, you know, even when you think he's given up on us, he hasn't, because that's just who he is, you know, and just just truly good evokes from every pore in his body. Looking back, you know, it's, that's been out for 30 years, more or less, I think. Yeah, something like that, yes. I can't believe it's been a lot. I know. What do you think specifically about that book is what has made it endure? is one of D.C.'s most essential Superman stories.

Because it's technically else worlds. Right. Neither if I knew that, I would write one every week. I mean, clearly Alex Ross is just a gigantic part of that because the art draws you in immediately. If that story had been drawn by, you know, Joe New Guy, I don't think we'd be talking about it. But I don't know.

I mean, it really was my love letter to the D.C. universe at that time. And I think that passion comes through on the page. And I think that helps. you can always tell when a writer is not enjoying every single page. The advice I give to young writers is like you have to be excited by every scene. You have to be excited by every page. And if you're not, you'll find some part of it that excites you and do something. Because if you're bored, the readers will know you're bored.

And they'll be bored too. So that was part of it. I think that it just came along at a good time. I don't know. It came along at this time when when I was pushing really hard. against the grain in comics to get away from the image grim gritty giant weapons

big armored guys and with Flash we decided let's just go the other way let's swim upstream and see what we get and we got Graham Morrison's jail layout of it we got other stuff out of it we got kingdom come out of it so I think

it came along at a good time too and speaking of I mean you've been able to reinvent characters across multiple franchises, you know, one of my favorites being the Archie run, getting to come back with Fiona Staples. As someone who has been doing this for quite a while now and has impacted numerous storylines and characters, how do you balance, you know, respect for the past while still being able to push boundaries for modern stories? I find that, well, first of all, I try to always go back and look at the earliest stuff because I'm a big, big believer in author intent. but that doesn't mean

in a shared universe you're limited to what was done 70 years ago so that's part of it is just kind of looking back at the core of the character and then really thinking hard

about what that character's life is like within the suit you know Tom Pire calls it writing about the superhuman condition there's a page it's my favorite page in comics

It's, it's from a Superman comic from 1980, I think, and it's the life story of Superman. And there's a page where Superman's talking about his dog, Crypto. And Lana Lang is like, he's a dog. And he's like, no, no, no. And he, and he, this is Marty Pascoe wrote this, Chris, Kurtzwan Druid. And Superman explains, no, no, no. I was completely alone in this world, completely, experiencing things, no one else could experience, feeling things that no one else could feel. And then it's a dog

company. Well, dog shows up. And suddenly, I have a best friend. Suddenly, I have someone, and these are quotes, someone who knows what it feels like to have the wind hit your face while you're flying, or the sound that bullets make when they bounce off living flesh. And that Senate, the sound that bullets make when they bounce off living flesh, that's like the cornerstone everything because it is always about thinking about what that character's life is and powers and abilities would be and affect their life on a day-to-day basis, not just when they're punching stuff. When I was working on Daredevil, there wasn't a single day where I wasn't standing somewhere and thinking at some point, how would Matt Murdoch receive this situation? When I write

any of these characters from The Flash or whoever, I really think first and foremost about what it's like, how does having those abilities filter your perception of the world? So in that sense, to circle back to your actually original question, I think that I draw from the past, but it really is a matter of drawing less from what happened in issue 72 and more from getting back to what author intent was. This is, you know, but just kind of deepening it. You mentioned the word perception, which reminded me of a quote that you had on a panel not too long ago where you're talking about Superman. And you mentioned the issue, Superman, I think it was 330, which is the issue all about the glasses. Yes.

Right. And about why they work as a disguise, the ultimate debate, right? How can people not know that Clark Kent is Superman? And you gave this great comment on it, which is it's not about how we see one of another, but how we perceive one another, which I think, like, that, I mean, that's it, right? Like, it's people can't perceive Clark Kent, possibly this bumbling journalist, you know, this, yeah, who tries to fade in the background. He wants to be the guy that you forget at and you forget he's at the, not at the office party.

And also makes him a good journalist, by the way. Yeah, just throwing that out there. I mean, we're talking about him as Superman, but yeah, he's a damn good rider, too. But then on a meta sense, I've always said that if you look at the entire history and scope of superhero comics as an inverted pyramid, the very tip of it is the concept that somebody can hide their identity with pair of glasses. So if you can't accept that flight of fancy, if you can't accept that, you know, suspension and disbelief, comics are probably not for you. You should probably go watch football, you know, or whatever. It's like being a wrestling fan. If you can't accept these guys are really punching each other, then maybe not for you.

Yeah. I will say, though, that Zoe de Chanel without bangs is the ultimate disguise. People pull it off all the time. You know, they really, I mean, who is it? Like, was it Cavill or somebody walked around? Caval. In Times Square. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Like, nobody gave him a second look. Underneath a Batman v. Superman banner, if I remember right. You know, hearing what you said about recognizing the ordinary and the superhuman makes so much sense, just for example, just within a few years of each other, you did Kingdom Come, like the ending of the superhero stories, but also JLA Year 1, where there were some really funny, grounded character moments, like when Black Canary is making front of the flashes suit and takes his mask and pulls it like this, or how Aquaman mumbles because he's used to talking underwater. So I've always admired how you're able to find, hey, what would this person really do? Thank you. I've also always thought, we're wondered, did that influence the Tower of Babel storyline? You know, now we kind of take it for granted that Batman has this idea that he can take down every hero, which we kind of saw in Dark Night. But Tower of Babel is about that.

Where did that come about? I'm really sorry. Okay. I look back on Solmey work and go, it was a good idea at the time, but oh, my God, I've unleashed a monster. It's out of the can, right? Yeah. I mean, truth to tell, it was actually on the six minutes I was working on. on the X-Men books, it was actually

the Xavier protocols. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I quit the highest paid job in comics because office politics were stupid. I just poured that idea over to Justice League. Okay.

But still, yes, it comes down to really thinking about, okay, what makes this character vulnerable and not just in a more, not just in a traditional sense, but what can you do that is character driven to make them vulnerable as as just power-driven. How do you feel other, you know, you said, I'm sorry for that a second ago.

How do you feel the industry has taken that idea? Do you think they've run too far with it and made Batman almost invincible? Yes. Batman is, you know, Batman is so invincible at this point that I, as a writer, I have a hard time writing that character because I, you know, Batman can't even, you don't even get a chance to punch Batman anymore. Well, it's, it's tough, right? Especially like Batman, his emotional journey.

can only go so far because if it goes to a certain point, then he's no longer Batman, right? And yeah, now you've made it. Now you have made him physically. But you know, I'm so relieved to hear you say that because I've had the same opinion for years. I've always thought that fans were over-hyping him or overpowering him, which made him less interesting for me. It's the way the people used to write Superman, where he would be able to move entire planets by pushing them. I didn't like that either. Right. I never, yeah, like, that's my answer to when people say I'm not interested in Superman is too powerful. And look at Batman.

And also with Batman, the more powerful you make him in that sense, the less heroic you make it. Like, it's one thing to put on a bad costume and stalk the streets and stop criminals when you've got a cape and a utility belt. But if you're wearing a giant armored suit, that's anybody can do that. You know, and there's no risk to you. You've heard it here first, put Batman back in the tights and the Adam West costume. I agree. I think Chip Zadarski is actually going in that direction.

with his running. I'm so excited about that. Yeah. I've had this thought for a while about Superman and Batman and about choice, right? Because I don't think Batman has a choice to do what he does. No, I don't think he does. There's that great line in Mask of the Fantasim, and he apologizes to his parents and says, please, I didn't count. I never thought it'd be happy, yeah. Oh, it's so good. What are your thoughts on that aspect of Batman not having a choice? And then after that, whether or not you think Superman has a choice. By the way, that line of dialogue was also written by Marty Pascoe, who wrote the when bullets bounce off living flesh. I did not know that.

He gets it. What was the right to your question? I'm sorry. I was still focused on that. No, no, no. It's okay. It's a great line. I'm writing a whole video based around that one line right now. The question is, like, why is it you think Batman doesn't have a choice? And to the counter to that, in the same way, do you think that Superman does

or doesn't have a choice to put on his cape every day and help people out? I mean, Batman doesn't have a choice because that is what compels I don't, I mean, if you take the Batman away from Bruce Wayne, there's nothing. I mean, it's there, Bruce Wayne is the disguise. You know, Bruce Wayne is the, is the, depending upon how you want to play him, he's either the industrialist or the billionaire FOP or whatever. There's nothing to him.

With Superman, he does have a choice. And luckily, and that is his greatest superpower is he chooses to use his powers for selflessness. And that is nature versus. as I think the whole point of James Gunn's movie was that it is he could very easily have landed somewhere and it's also the point of Irredeemable, by the way, which is that the whole take on Irredeemable, which was my, I don't want to say my evil Superman story because that really synopsizes it in a way that I think is very trivial. But that's the whole concept there too. If you, you know, if you land that rocket somewhere where it doesn't belong, then you're going to end up with somebody who is not well adjusted and it's not going to use those powers well. You know, the new Superman movie, which I take from your comments, you really enjoyed. I love it. Yeah, I did. Yeah.

Obviously based in part on birthright, which I know we have a million questions about. And the idea that Lex, like, used Krypton and Kryptonian images to frame Superman. That movie did something interesting with the idea, though, where it took Jor L and kind of made him into a jerk. you know, but how do you feel about the interpretation of him that they use there? And there's their precedence for that in the comics. There's no precedent for that in the comics. From a filmmaker's point of view and from a story point of view, it makes perfect sense for that story. Let's leave it at that.

Okay. I just, I have to, I have to say, and I don't know if I've discussed this with you, Ryan, though. You know, if Lex Luthor's whole purpose was I want to find something that makes super, Superman bad, right? That makes people not trust him. He's walking around with a clone of Superman. Yeah. I think, yeah, right there. That has the same powers of Superman. Very easy to do. Just use him. Right. Just have that guy. Who obeys his orders at all times, exactly. Right. Yes. I thought it was a little similar to John Burns' take on Jorail, where no, he didn't say go forth and conquer the galaxy, but he was this detached kind of scientific. And, you know, him and Laura and the new Krypton, like, held science as their god. So I thought

there was a little bit of that, but just curious to hear your take on it. There was. It makes me itch a little bit because I think that one of the problems that people seem to have with Superman is that not only can nothing hurt him, but nothing bad happens to him. And I think that tragedy, anyone would argue, the tragedy is an important part of the Baroque Arc, which is also why I wish the Kents were dead. One of the many reasons I think the comics were better when the Kents were dead. But I'm not going to win that fight. It's been 40, years have at. I wouldn't take that away from fans at this point because this is the reality they know. And the same with Krypton. The last Krypton becomes a tragic loss of this

spectacular world that we can miss. I think you lose a little something. And that was one of my few quibbles with the Christopher Reed movie. The first time you see is Krypton and I'm like, that's not Like Krypton? Crypton is flying cars and happy people and stuff. But again, I get it. It's just, I don't think you need a cold inhuman Krypton to underscore the nature versus nurture message of Superman. I think it comes across regardless. And speaking of accents as we were before we got online, what a bold swing for Martha Kent. Oh my gosh. Yeah, big time. What, I mean, what a choice. I was, that, I think that was the one moment where in the film that I was really like, oh, yeah. Do you guys know the story behind that was, I forget his name, the guy, he's on the Howard Stern show a lot. His parents are from Kansas and James Gunn's friends with this guy and he said, hey, can you leave voicemails on the phone for when I saw it, I was like, oh, cool, I saw their house and I was like, that's actually what farmhouses look like now. Exactly, yes, yeah. I had to tell my wife, she was from Scotland, I had to tell her what she was saying sometimes in the same way as, you know, when we watch Scottish things, she has.

interpret for me. But yeah, I loved it. I thought it was perfect and universe. Just right. Yeah. I mean, it really, it really worked for me and it was a choice. I never would have seen comment. I want to take a turn back to the comics for a second. Because I've heard in another interview, you've mentioned your favorite comic, favorite Superman story is Superman 148, where Superman, the IRS comes after Superman. Yes. It's a great one. It's so great. I thought about it a lot on just a terms. of, you know, Superman owes a billion dollars, right? He's never paid taxes. You know, you get to deduct for dependents. Everyone's your dependent. Yeah, so the government actually owes Superman, billions of dollars that's the reverse of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Billions of dollars. Does that apply to every country? How does that That's a great question. I will say this. We recorded that answer for Instagram, for Instagram real. And as of this morning, it has a Half a million views.

Oh, wow. So that's pretty amazing. And if you're a dealer and you want to start marking up your copies of action 148, this would be the time. Yeah. Let me ask. Earlier, you know, we touched on Kingdom Come and how at the time it was your commentary on comics back then. The Grim Dark, you know, Magog, the villain, and it has the eye light cable. So it's some of it's, you know, right there.

But you're right, there was this proliferation of all of these characters, giant shoulder pads and everybody's murdering each other, et cetera. A lot of your work now doesn't seem to be as meta or as much as of a commentary on the state of comics. But what do you feel is the state of comics these days? I mean, what are your thoughts on just the industry as a whole? I think the state of comics has swung pretty heavily away from superheroes, which I think is pretty healthy. Interesting. I mean, I look back on, you know, the last month's worth of comics that I've read, and I don't know that many of them are superhero comics at all. It sucks in the sense that, you know, none of us will ever win Eisner's again as long as we live.

But on the on the macro, I think it's good. I think that we have been saying for a million years that superhero should not be the driving only force in in the comic book market any more than, you know, nursing novels or romance novels should be the predominant thing you find in a bookstore, right? So this is this is good. And also it gives people and gives writers a chance to bring in new voices. which we desperately need. I mean, superheroes don't give you quite that ability because they're corporate owned

and there's stuff, there's limits you can do. And we're way overdue for those new voices. And that's, that is our fault. And I'll tell you that part of the criticism of, you know,

for the longest time, we only let white guys write comics is a fair criticism, but it's, it's a little deeper than that. And it's, It's still our fault. It's not just that we were just letting like only white guys write superior comics. That presumes that there is a gigantic line outside of the Marvel offices

full of women and people who are of color who are waiting for their chance. And that wasn't really true in the early odds either because why would they? We hadn't for years been giving them anything that is relative to their life. Why would we? even expect them to want to write comics when clearly the medium has not been for them for decades. Like I said, we were overdue. It is, you know, as anyone will tell you, we will never catch up as much as we should catch up. But I am just so grateful that so many new voices are in comics because I read all that stuff. I don't read every superhero comic because I would of nuts. But I do think that in order to help stay relevant and in order to continue to bolster my

love for comics, I need to keep up. I need to, I need to see how, you know, I need to see who is in the rear few mirror. And I need to see where the bar is at this point. And I need to see nothing makes me happy. Nothing makes me happier than reading a comic and seeing some new storytelling trick or some technique unique to comics that I never thought about before, just little things like that that aren't going to come from people who have been writing comics for 40 years. I think, you know, to your point of, you know, other genres are starting to break out more and have been, you know, have broken out more in the last, you know, a couple of decades in particular. I hear IDW has really good horror comics. I hear they do too. We also have great

Star Trek comics, but it challenges superhero comics and the creators working at the big two and more mainstream stuff to be better as well, you know, to play within a genre within their own storylines. Well, it does if they pay attention. It does if they pay, well, yes. It does that they're paying any attention at all, but unless they're, but a lot of times they're just competing, they're competing with, in their own minds, they're competing with whatever John Byrne did 30 years ago.

Good stuff, but not where you should be setting your signs. Yes, no, for sure. But to your point of new voices, it does speak to the breakout success of characters like Ms. Marvel, Spider-Gwen, you know, Gwen Poole, Miles Morales, right? Like, those audiences are there. We just have to, you know, welcome them in open arms. And great comics, too. I mean, Ms. Marvel, especially that first run, just one of my favorite Marvel books for the past 10 years.

It's so great. Mark, what are you reading these days? comic-wise. Like, I'm always looking for new recommendations, and I miss a lot. Let's see what I'm reading. I haven't even read Jane Austen for crying out loud. I know. For God, say, first off, you know, stop reading comics. Go read some novels. Wait, what's it called again? Watchmen M? Yeah, it's exactly. Yeah, okay. I thought Helen of Winhorn by Tom King and Oquist, Evelie was really good. I thought that Matthew Rosenberg is doing some really cool stuff with, we'll take them all down with us or whatever it's called. He announced the other day that issue six

was going to be the last of the current run, and I wrote them back and said, this is unacceptable. I'm not happy with this. They chose violence. My favorite comic of the year, it is basically just, you know, a bunch of African-American women who were just sick of the system, and they will go to extremes. And it is such a cathartic comic that I immediately, like, I'm campaigning for that for the Eisner next year. There's a lot of good stuff out there.

Thanks for the wrecks. And we've talked about this on the podcast. A lot of, you know, Screen Crush has a lot of geeks from different walks of life, which is why we like having Star Trek people, comic with people. So any chance I can get people who don't normally read comics to put a comic in their hands, I always try to go after it. So next to the Rex. Sure.

She told the Islands reminds me a lot of, you know, bitch planet when that first came out. Yeah. Yeah. However long ago, just like, God, I love angry women comics so much. I mean, I do too. If they're well done, I mean, if they're written by women, I do. if they're not written by well yes that's a whole other thing yeah it is just it is it is so even even i have struggle sometimes i have to basically put up the mental equivalent of a post-it note

on my screen to remember when i'm writing lanellang or whoever to make sure that they're not just there to cause trouble or they're not just there to be the butt of jokes they're just not there to be bitchy yeah and it is not always easy not because i'm not skilled but because those characters traditionally have not been that. They've always been like the, you know, the ones that the comic relief or whatever. So don't do that. And a note I've found myself having to give over the years, you know, or it's not even really a note, but more so a question I've, you know, then back to writers is, are you sure you're

the right voice to be telling this story? We certainly know, I know we know one writer who I'm sure you gave notes to, but we will not mention him. We will not talk about that. But you know exactly what I'm talking about. We don't even want to acknowledge their program. It's Ryan. It's Ryan, everyone. It was. It was me the whole time.

I've never written a comic professionally in my life. I did bang out issue number one of the assassins when I was 10 years old. Mark, I want to circle back to the Superman movie that's out right now because I think about it about every five, ten minutes or so. And it's been a 10 minutes since I mentioned it. Looking to the sequel, right, these movies have this incredible. deep lore. And I feel like the franchise as a whole kind of got stuck with Lex Luthor

as the villain. Just like the X-Men movies always have Magneto and until recently Fantastic War always had Dr. Jim. So going ahead, I don't know, if you were going to send out a wish list to James Gunn or if you had the chance to write one of these, if you were going to say, this is what I would like to see in this universe

for the sequel from the deep Supreme Lord? What do you want to say? Well, clearly the answer is the prankster. No, I'm kidding. I mean, you know, everyone Everyone will tell you, brain. Everyone will please stop. There are certain characters that are unsalvageable. But Brainiac is the guy.

This is a gimmy. That's one of those, that's one of those questions where I'm that, you just pulled a string in my back and I just gave you the real answer. But hold on, but hold on, hold on. Let me face it. Because saying that is, because I thought you might say Brainiac, it's kind of like saying your favorite band is the Beatles. So of course you want to see Brainiac, right?

But from the deep lore, from anything like that, like you could say prankster. You could say Toy Man. Toy Man was done pretty well in the animated series. You know, I like what to do with him there. So apart from Brainiac, let's add that caveat. Okay. If you're going to go deep cut, there's a villain called Amalak, who I really like, who nobody remembers.

And Amalak's whole thing was he believes that his planet was destroyed by Krypton in earlier days. Okay. And so he is seeking, he is seeking out Kryptonians for revenge. And no matter what he, you know, no matter what you show him, He ain't believing it. He's got, he's wearing his red hat, you know, and he's, uh, he's, you know, make America Amalak again. He's not listening.

I like that guy. I like the idea of, uh, somebody who was actually stalking Kryptonians. And that would stood in this universe really well where, you know, Bradley Cooper's Jorl was a, you know, conquistador who wanted to go off and conquer the galaxy. Exactly. I like that. Exactly. Thank you.

I should have added the Brainiac caveat earlier. I wasn't trying to traffic, but I thought, I thought I bet he'll think brainiac because we all think. that, but like, you're right. We do want to see Braniac in the movie. But only if Candor is involved, damn it. I want that level of silliness. Here's the bottle city of candor. Silliness, I'm on, get lost. Get a height, pal. Look, it's awesome. Wait, him and Jimmy Olson dressing, it is awesome. I must say it's not awesome, but him and Jimmy Austin dressing up with superheroes and have another, I'm talking silver. It's all silly. It is also because all of that stuff was a

fairy tale. All this stuff was, was stories meant for children. And that, is their target audience for stuff like that. And if you can turn it into something, that's awesome. I just, I did a book called The Last Days of Alex Luther that just came out a hardcover. It's the best thing I ever wrote. And a big part of it was taking you on a travel log through the Superman universe. The big part of where I wanted to do with what I want to do the story was, okay, let's go to the Phantom Zone. Let's go to Candor. Let's go to the 31st century. let's go to these places that we kind of touched upon in comics and I think I have a take on them that's deeper and more interesting

than, you know, Superman and Jim Yolson dress up and fight crime in Kandor. And that was fun to me. And so I think that I think that the core ideas, there's stuff that you can do with any of them. Look, just putting this on the table, having nothing to do with me, have you been reading Absolute Superman by any chance? Yeah, great. Jason's idea for candor in the in the bottled cities is they're all screaming all the time.

Like that's great. That immediately makes that not a silly idea that he just sits there among the bottles of different cities and just hear the streams. Well, and so did Dark Night 3 where they've been overtaken by a fascist government. There is no Dark Night 3. There is no, there is no Indiana Jones 4. There is just there is no Dark Knight 3. Oh, man, I think with that, we should transfer to our Hear Me Out segment. I think that's a great idea before we start dog in other books, which I could do all day.

Well, we'll just have to have Mark back if he'll join us. Exactly. We've talked about your favorites and we'll talk about your bottom five. Well, I was going to say we could go on about Derrick Devil, but we'll save that for a little time. Cool. This is, Ryan, do you want to tell folks what this segment is? So hear me out. It's just, you know, me, Heather and our guest if they would like to participate, totally option. Oh, yeah. I'm loaded for bear on this one. Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad. It's a segment that sometimes we'll do something that's really silly or it's like a head canon theory. Sometimes it's just like our unpopular opinion about something. For instance, I'll go first. This is a light one, right? It takes some explanation. But I think there's time travel in Star Wars because Darth Vader tortures Han Solo to give Luke Skywalker visions of a future where his friends are being tortured.

So it's like the force, sending Tachian beams backwards in time. Now, because we don't know how long Luke was on Dagobab versus how long it took to travel to Bespin versus if these events are happening concurrently, it's kind of hard to know what the actual timeline is there. So it could have been happening simultaneously, but I maintain there is a form of time travel in the main Star Wars original trilogy. That's mine. I admire your passion.

I was going to say I just refuse to accept this. because I hate time travel. Oh, it doesn't belong in Star Wars. I'm not saying I like it. Sorry, I'm not saying I like it. You were dead to me. You were dead to me, Heather. It's my favorite genre.

Is it really? Really? There are three genres that I will read at any time at the drop of a hat, and that is time travel stories, last man on earth, or deal with the devil. Any of those three, you've got my attention immediately. I will say, though, I will caveat that it's, I if it's if time travel is more so like the mechanic rather than the story yeah it's got to be character based because last week you were talking about back to the future and how much you liked it weren't you when i brought up star trek for yeah because that's not the you know that's it's it's a mechanic in it's character based yeah exactly i'm in the middle i'm in the middle of a quantum leap rewatch right now i've never seen quantum leap but i will i will say one of my favorite comic series they ever worked on does is the time travel sort of more or less story called time before time by Declan Chalby and Rory McConville.

We wrapped it up a couple years ago. And in it, the pitch of it is it's in the future, mobs don't own land. They own time periods. Oh, that's cool. Oh, cool. And so a guy is on the run from his criminal organization being pursued by FBI through different time periods. Oh, that's awesome. So it is super fun.

But, like, I don't know, Looper made me so mad how they just did not use time travel. well in that this predates you at idw but when you had the doctor who license i actually got approval for a doctor who story that we ended up not doing because the other licenser wouldn't go for it which is crazy i maintain this is not my hot take by the way i have a separate hot take i maintain that mr peabody and sherman he's a time lord that's my dad is a love that Completely. And so I sold IDW on Doctor Who, Mr. Peabody and Sherman. The Doctor Who people at BBC signed off on it. Wow. The, you know, the Jay Ward people. The Rocky and Boeagle people. Yeah, the Jay Ward people. I don't understand this is not. I don't we like this. I don't know. You're crazy. Nobody, look. It's only, you know, nobody remembers your property. I'm helping you. but anyway that is that is a ship that is now safe oh my gosh what's your hear me out mark

all right as someone who has been there from day one i will insist that i reject all arguments that the simpsons sucks now i really do okay everyone says oh there was a golden age period and it's been terrible ever since or it's been a mere shadow it's former self i'm not saying it was as good as it ever was at its absolute prime. But I still find something to chuckle at two or three times an episode. Some of them, especially this past season, have been really good. And so here's my thing. Have you ever seen the movie Hands on a Hard Body?

Do you know what this? No. Okay. It's a documentary about a contest by which the brand new Ford truck. And the contest was a bunch of people around it and you had to keep your hand on it. at all times. And the last person who didn't give up and still had their hand, and days, days went by and people had their hand. And finally the one who has their hand on the truck, they win the truck. That is my Simpsons. I am hands on a hard potty for the sentence. That's it. I'm never

leaving at this point. I don't, I'm not going to say you're wrong. Now, there was a period where I didn't watch it as much, but I have seen more recent episodes. I think they're on a resurgence. There was an episode X number of seasons ago, pretty recently, where it's a Halloween episode, but it's not Tree House of Horrors, where Homer and Lisa are, like, stuck in the house and the house is being home invaded, and it's actually scary and like a really good character-based episode. There was a special, like a Star Wars Disney Plus special that I, all of those suck. I haven't been able to watch one of those tie-ins. Those are, even everything about them are terrible. The first one was actually pretty good when Homer and Goofy are getting drunk at, uh, Mo's bar. Now, that I haven't seen. Okay, that'll watch. Okay. That one's a good one. And when you brought

this up, Heather got like a really wide-eyed look of terror on her face. Well, I was going to say, because I just confessed to Ryan earlier today, I have never seen a single episode of the Simpsons. And now Mark Scher's the same face that I'm laughing at Mark Wade's face because it was my face not two hours ago when Heather told me this information. Like I could just see a freeze frame. You see like a single feather coming out of my mouth as I'm just staring at it. I think I to how was that in my defense I was I wasn't allowed to like watch a lot of television growing up I had a very very conservative you know upbringing households like a huh do you still live there um and do you not have Disney plus in your home well no no because then

like by the time you know I reach college or streaming or you know whatever it's one of those like oh it's been on for so long and I'm such a completionist that I would have to go back and start at the very, very beginning. Never watch Doctor Who then. Oh, I can't. I can't get into dark. I've tried. I can't. Oh. Oh. I don't do you, you break it. I've tried. I've tried so hard. And how I'm one getting shit over having never read a Jane Austen novel. And you've never come on. Look who I'm sitting here with. You've never seen a space jam either, Ryan.

I've also never seen a space jam and I had to interview the producer of Space Jam too and be like, so the jams were spaced eh yes everybody has their thing i never read a conan comic in my entire life and at this point it's a point of pride yeah and to be honest and this circles back to something much earlier i've never seen a rocky movie either that see not one wow we're kindred spirits mark but but here's the thing now it is a point of pride now it's like damn it i've never seen one now i'm going to go to my grave having never seen one that's that's kind of how i feel about The Simpsons now, right? It's like the most popular, you know, cartoon, been on forever.

If I can go to my grave, having never seen one. Someday, you're going to be 88 and not be able to move out of your bed in the assisted living facility, and somebody's going to hand you a remote control, and you're going to sit there and watch all 40 years ago. No, I'm going to wheel in an AV club cart in front of you and make you watch the Simpsonsons and the Rocky movies. There we go. Either that or sleep, Grandma. Oh, my God.

I mean, gosh, I'm just going to say my hot take here. You know, Mark, I apologize if this also offends you. Like you've already given this like two or three hot takes. I know, I know. But I'm just going to say, I think Lois Lane is a bad match for Superman. I never quite understood them being together. It doesn't make sense to me at all. I'm with you.

I'm actually with you. Okay. I have never been. I don't get it. I get it as a fling, but I don't get it as like a true love longstanding. Wow. I mean, I can make it work and I can, I can, I can create a reason. And I can, I think I can write stories where I get it.

But it's hard for me to, I don't have read a whole lot of stories that. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, the most, the most reason movie, like, they do have chemistry. They do. They do. They do have energy. But that's the first time I've seen that in a long time.

And I think it goes back to what we discussed earlier, right? Like, she can't relate to him on the level of, you know, knowing the sound of bullets hitting skin. Like, it's just that there's such a huge part of his world that she can sympathize with, but she'll never be able to empathize with. Which is why Mark Had him shack up with Wonder Woman at the end of Kingdom come. Yep. Well done.

Yeah. But think about this, Heather. If you are Lois, then you have seen. the world and you have dated kings and you have been everywhere and done everything first off here's somebody who offers you a world that you've never experienced before and secondly and you had that report's curiosity and secondly lois is the kind of person i think you might agree where everybody wants something from her all the time yeah well here's a guy who can literally pick her up and fly her through the air which is the ultimate freedom i get why she'd be

into him. Oh, why Superman's on it. Oh, I get it. Okay. I wrote a scene in birthright that was inspired by a real-life moment at CrossGen where Superman's first encounter with Lois is watching Lois yell at the boss for having dared dress down some poor intern who didn't deserve that kind of shalacking. And she's like in his face yelling at him.

And that's when Clark just says, I think I'm in love. That was there's like, that was. she's willing to stand up to anybody and step in and speak up for, you know, the week and the oppressed, in this case, the intern who got the coffee order wrong. That was, that was inspired by a moment at cross-gen when the boss was screaming at somebody who didn't deserve to be screamed at, and I went out and yelled at him. And by the way, I repeat, I'm only in offices for about a couple years at a time. Remote work is great as an editor, Mark.

I just got to say. Yep. Well, awesome. I've just been trapped in this video story. as long as I can possibly remember. There you go. Mark Wade, this has been amazing for us. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to us.

Thank you so much. Thanks for inviting me. I very much appreciate it. With that, that's another episode of Screen Crush Crossover Universe. Everybody's links are down below and let us know who you want us to have one next or if there's any questions for Mark that we should have asked. And of course, be sure to subscribe, smash that bell for alerts if you have not already. Thank you, Heather Antos.

Thank you, Ryan Erie. Thank you both. And thank you, Bart. You know,