ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - PAUL SUN-HYUNG LEE Talks Star Wars, Kim's Convenience, and Avatar

Episode Date: August 17, 2025

Star Wars and Avatar actor Paul Sun-Hyung Lee sits down with ScreenCrush to talk about his role in the Hobbit play, Kim's Convenience, Star Wars, and More. Co-Hosted by Heather Antos https://twitter.com/HeatherAntosCo-Hosted by Ryan Arey http://twitter.com/ryanareyEdited by James Summerville IV http://twitter.com/summervilleiv FeaturingPaul Sun-Hyung Lee  @Bitterasiandude  https://www.instagram.com/angryappa/ #ScreenCrushSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

My agent calls up and says, so you have a callback for Blue Dawn and it's a producer and director session. And so, you know, they'll be, they'll be there on your Zoom audition. And I thought, what the hell is Blue Dawn? Hey, welcome back to the Screen Crush Crossover Universe podcast. I am here with my co-host, Heather Antos. And I'm here with my co-host, Ryan Erie. Ryan, how the heck are you? Heather, it's great.

Yeah. You know, I feel like, I don't know, these release a week apart. We saw each other a couple days ago when we interviewed Mark Wade, which is awesome, found out, like, they played back the audio for him. I'm like, what the hell's wrong? I was going off this audio instead of this audio, this guy. So if you listen to the Mark Wade podcast, I'm sorry. So honestly, though, that's the only road bump I've had lately.

We've got a lot of stuff we're really excited that we're working on. I'm excited to see weapons. That's coming out this weekend. Yeah. Yeah. The reviews for that are like incredible. I am happy because I have not watched a trailer for it. And I never get to do that.

So I get to go in completely blind. That's cool. You know what I did that with? I did that with Last Jedi. Hmm. I did not watch a single trailer. And that was hard. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I bet. I bet. professionally. I remember my wife, like, when it would come on in the theaters, I would, you know, put my hands over my head. And my wife would just kind of go like this while I hummed to block out the sound. But I went in completely blind. That's, you ever done that? That's actually a feat. Um, I mean, obviously for nerd stuff, it's really hard for me to, to go in completely blind on because that's my world, my job. I'm sure you can relate. Um, but yeah, especially very

early on when I, when I, um, was working on, uh, all the sequel era stuff for Star Wars, right? I knew everything well in advance of time. I had some scripts. I had seen the style guides. I knew who lived, who died, you know, all the things, right? And so, you know, it was very difficult for me to, like, go in blind to anything. So there was definitely a few years there where I stopped watching trailers. And I can't remember what film it was specifically.

It was a Miles Teller. film that came out around 2017. He was like a weapons dealer. It was like a comedy. Yeah. With oh my God, completely blanking on the guy's name from SuperVad. Yes. Jonah Hill. Juneahill. The comments light up.

Yes. Yes. No, Jonah Hill. But yeah. So I for instance, like that was one that I went in completely blind for and I really enjoyed it. It was super fun. And then afterwards I went back and watched the trailer. And it was one where I'm like, had I watched this trailer, I never would have seen this film.

Trailers aren't good, man. No. I remember, like, the trailer for the Iron Giant gave a way that he can fly, but Brad Bird's original teaser trailer for it was great. You know, they put it out on the DVD back when DVDs used to be cool. I haven't been, like, high school was just that. High school was always, I saw, like, the Rainmaker, the Matt Damon movie before he was famous because I was like, well, there's nothing else playing. So I guess I'm going to watch Father of the Bride, too, or like, whatever happened to be going on. because, you know, you're a teenager and you get literally nothing else happening.

Yeah. I'll tell you what I watched last night. I don't know what you're watching right now. I checked out the first episode of Lord of War, the Jason Mamoa movie or show. Have you seen that yet? It's the Apple, right? It's Apple TV. It's Apple TV Plus who are not sponsoring this video.

Yeah. It's about Hawaii, I think late 17th century, late 18th century. So it's so far, it's all Hawaiians. There's no white people in it. And it's even subtitled. So they're all speaking in like the native Hawaiian language. And it's great. I mean, the guy, Jason Momola co-wrote the first episode.

I think he directs some episodes later on. You can tell it's a passion project. And again, because it's subtitled, it's really nice to have something to watch where you're not able to be on your phone. Yeah. Where if you want to watch it, you have to engage with it directly and read it. So I recommend that. Do you even have time to watch things that aren't work related? Yes.

But usually it's trash TV or like documentaries. I've seen every episode of every housewives. there is but no this weekend I actually binged the hunting wives on Netflix which is not reality TV but excellent

trash. Okay. It's basically making fun of tongue and cheek of like Texas society and the patriarchy and you know everything down there but it's kind of like a murder mystery of a group of housewives down in Texas. Wait, if you watch reality TV, have you ever watched the traders? Oh yes. Yes. Yes.

So, yeah, the Traders is like, and the American version is like the Avengers for reality TV because they gather these people from other shows. We're watching the UK version now, which is just regular people off the street. I like that better, like personally. Yeah. And they did a blend, right, in season one. They did a blend of like, of the American version where it was like normal people mixed with reality TV people. Oh, I haven't seen that. Okay.

And I wish that I liked that blend of like, I'm a fan of. I'm a fan of you and I've been watching you know, like I've watched you like destroy all these people on Big Brother, you know, whatever. And that was really cool. But of course, you know, in America, we love to just keep giving

celebrities more and more platforms now on game shows, reality shows, who wants to be a millionaire of celebrities now. But people who haven't really earned the right to be a celebrity. I'm sorry to all the I'm sorry to the probably one reality star who watches this podcast. But like you're not fame. You're not really. Like you haven't done

think to earn it in my opinion because reality shows aren't reality shows i mean they're written they're acted they're scripted and they put on that appearance of of acting but i'll tell you somebody who is an actor oh is today's guest oh i'm so pumped i'm so pumped i'm the reason i'm a little off today just so you know is because i was like i can't believe i get to talk to this guy i mean this is not just on a level of like an actor but also just as a person and what he means for the geek culture So this guest today is a fellow YouTuber. He is the host of the Bitter Asian Dude YouTube channel, which we'll link below. He's an actor of TV and film.

He broke through on that 90s classic Harriet the Spy. But he's also celebrated for playing Appa in Kim's Convenience, a role that has won him four of the Canadian Screen Awards for Best Actor in a Comedy Series. Recently, he also brought to life one of the greatest animated characters of all times. in live action. He played Uncle Iro in the new live action Avatar series. He's also a card carrying member of the 501 First Legion. Most Screen Crush fans, of course, know him from Star Wars, you know, The Mandalorian, the Book of Boba Fett. This guy is an action figure. Please welcome Paul Sun Humee. I am beyond happy to be talking to you right now. Wow, thank you so much. What an

intro. And not the action figure version. This is the real version. That's right. Heather said, can you write the intro for him? And I was like, I'm nervous about that. Oh, God. I stressed about it way too much. You did so great. I thought it was great, man. I'm blushing.

That's why I was nervous earlier. I was like, okay, I got to get this intro good. Right, you nailed it. And now the laptop can go away. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us today. Obviously, we're big fans of you, all of your work. But, you know, first, before we dive into all of.

that stuff, you know, you yourself are a huge fan. You're a huge nerd, your huge collector, as we might see behind you. What, this little thing? I just sort of put them up. Yeah, for an Easter egg guy, your wall is a nightmare for me. Yeah, because I'm like looking at your wall going, I kind of wish this was in focus. So I'm trying to figure out what the shit is. Yeah, no, it's, thank you. Yeah, I'm, I am a, I am a card carrying nerd. I've always been a nerd growing up. That's like this, all these things really spoke to me as a kid. growing up in Canada, I am Canadian and I live here and, you know, we immigrated to Canada. My family moved here when I was three months old.

And so growing up, it was one of those things where my parents being immigrant folks, you know, they had to work all the time. It was my sister and I just sort of left to our own devices because back then you could leave kids home alone. And, you know, the TV was my babysitter and my best friend. And so I learned and fell in love with the craft storytelling. And the shows that I gravitated most towards were sci-fi shows and, you know, westerns and Gillingham's Island and all these crazy sort of pop culture shows from the 70s and 80s. And so that just sort of, it leaves an, you know, leaves an image on you. And these are the things that I love.

And I'm a huge sort of, I've always been a fan of these things. Going to cons has always been my jam. And yeah, this is, it's like I'm living the dream because now I have TV money to back up. Yeah. My collecting habits. Your bad habit in the background. Yeah, you know. And so it's like reliving my childhood and enjoying the nostalgia.

Yeah. And spreading that joy in community building like you guys are doing with your podcast and reaching out and finding fellowship with other people who love the same things that you do or are curious about what you're into and want to learn more about it. And I think that's what fandom really is. Yeah. Finding something that you love is sharing it with as many people as you can because you meet you friends that way. you learn new things you can educate you can you know it's just really really great fellowship

and yeah it's something that I enhance my YouTube channel as well where I just you know I open up these collectibles and we chat and that's the big draw is everybody sort of congregating together in sort of sharing this experience it's it's great well speaking of fellowship uh who's your favorite member of the fellowship of the ring now I got to know now I got to oh that's such a That's such a hard question. It's funny because everybody sort of defaults to Sam, right? Sam lies. Sure.

And he's great. Solid Shore. Yeah, really, really awesome. I mean, Rudy. Right. Right, right, right. Mikey. He's Mikey.

Sean Austin. There you go. I was going to say, yeah. To me, he's Mikey. He's the guy who he just spits inspirational speeches in the streets of people who he passes. I grew up to Southside Notre Dame, so he's Rudy. Like, he's celebrity. Okay.

Gotcha. Yeah. So, yeah, Solich, Sean Asson, obviously, I grew up watching him. him his work watching him grow up to and he's he's a fine he's began as a great actor he's still a great actor and he's more matured and so that's that's lovely too love the great guy great guy too okay just just so we yeah no just so you know yeah nice i bumped into him at a couple of conventions and stuff but uh he's always so super busy and he always gets swarmed yeah right so i kind of i give him his space like when he's in the green room i kind of try to pull back a little bit

because I know sometimes your social battery, you don't mean to, but it gets, it depletes and you just need that time to sort of recharge and stuff like that. But he's always been absolutely a gentleman to everybody behind the scenes, which is great. It's a good sign. Yeah. Yeah, my favorite, you know, I'm kind of always been partial to the dwarfs. So, Gimli. Okay.

I played a dwarf. We did a version of The Hobbit on stage in my youth when I was, in my youth, when I was a younger actor. Interesting. You know, I played a number of dwarves and I kind of. had to get into the mindset of, so I played Bomber, the dwarf. So I have an affinity towards that, and I love the sort of the pureness. And, you know, John Rhys Davies, who played him was superb. There's a softer side to dwarves that I think aren't played up.

Like that whole bit when he asked for the lock of hair, you know, it was just lovely. And he's got that soft side, but he's also got that cantanker sort of rough side. So the competition between him and Legolas is a lot of fun to watch. He's often kind of underestimated. I love underdogs. I love underdogs. And just to rewind for a second, when you did the production of the Hobbit on stage, was it the Rankin' Bass version with the music?

No, it was not. I was going to ask if you guys sang, yeah, if you had the songs. Yeah, I wanted to hear break the dishes, crack the plates. Oh, but just not those songs. Yeah, so that version was commissioned by Kim Sillity. What's that? Yeah, it was never heard of this version of the Hobbit. It was commissioned by Kim Sellety.

and he was one of the first to get permission from the Tolkien family to do that. Oh, okay. And his version was very, it was for younger audiences. So they had a narrator who came in and would, you know, gather around the fire and I'll tell you the story and this and that. And the version I did was an adaptation of that where the aged it up. So the character, the narrated, the narrator was removed and it became more of this, more of the tale of the journey to get the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, we played, so

there's a theater in Toronto called young people's theater back then. And that's, that's, that's, that is an institution. In fact, uh, the actor who played billbo Baggins, um, is now the artistic director. Good friend my. Oh, that's fine. So this is a show that we both, when we both met and worked together and it was a lot of fun on that. So a lot of great memories. But this was a version that was, again, was adapted and was a smash hit for the theater. And we actually went on tour across Canada with this show. And it's, you know, it runs for about, it's a marathon of a show. It runs for about an hour and a half.

There were only eight cast members. And four of us had to play all the dwarves. Oh, my God. And so there's that introduction when they're coming into the, into Bilbo's home. And we all had to like come in, go down. Like we were stacked up with costumes. So we run off state, rip off one layer, run back upstairs. It's like a farce.

It's another one. And it was, yeah. It sounds like the 39 staff. Yeah, exactly. Oh, it was crazy. Yeah. Very much like that. So it was a really great workout, but it was a fun show to do.

And the audiences, the kids especially loved it. When Gallum came out, there were a lot of wet seats because a lot of kids peed their pants. When he came storming out, like, it was a great jump scare. But yeah, so I've always had an affinity towards the dwarves, having had to play one. And again, people who are often. underestimated, I find an affinity towards because that's been my career. Yeah. That's been my life.

People sort of taking a glance and dismissing and kind of going, meh, and not really taking you seriously. And I'm happy to say that that's provided me with fuel in my career and my life to just sort of prove people wrong and say, hey, you know what? You can't judge a book by its cover. You can't be so dismissive of anybody, really. And you've got to give people a chance, like a real sort of opportunity to look at them and see what they're about.

And so that's why I'm a huge, huge, you know, fan of underdogs, underdog stories and whatnot. And, like, in baseball or hockey or sports or life. Rudy. Yes, Rudy. It comes back to Rudy. Yeah, I love seeing the underdogs succeed. And does this show, like, you know, hard work does pay off. If you have heart, that pays off. You have to be very fortunate, but I think you make your own fortune, too, by

being prepped for that moment. So, you know, and it's got to be pretty incredible, right, to grow up being this, this nerd, this fan. And now you've got to play the live action version of one of the most, you know, popular characters and one of the most popular cartoons of all time. You've got to, you know, create a new character for Star Wars. Kim's Convenience, which started as a play, I believe, right? Yes.

And then. Oh, were you, Mr. Kim in the play, too? I was. I originated the role. We did the workshops for it. I was up until a year ago, the only actor to ever portray him on stage. Wow.

Oh wow. And so it's a tough, it's a great part, but it's a very difficult part to cast. Because you need an older Korean man to play it and there aren't very many older Korean actors out there who can. And it's an interesting thing because there is an awful lot of the stage play is very different

different from the television series. I was going to ask, yeah, I've never read the stage play, so can you give us a brief rundown? It is a much darker version of the family. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow, really? They're much older. They're in their 60s.

They're running out the clock. The family is fractured. Jung has been gone away from home for, he's run away. It's been 16 years since they've seen him. Oh, my God. And it's a day in the life. And basically what happens in the play is a Walmart is being built. in the neighborhood and a real estate friend of the Kims comes by and offers to buy the store

because he said, you know, Walmart's going to wipe you out. So I'm going to do you a favor. I'm going to buy your store. And then you can retire. And it's a princely sum. But it becomes an issue of legacy for Upper because he spent 30 years working on the store. And if he just sells it, he figures, what do I have the show for it? So for him, it's this whole journey of, well, what's my legacy? And Janet is still. living at home. She's in her 30s. She's struggling as a photographer. And so he figures, I can kill two birds with one stone. I will pass on my legacy to her. She will have a solid source of income that will help her and keep her alive. And hey, it's win-win. She has, she wants

nothing to do with that. So the plays about him trying to convince her and reopening old wounds and the whole idea of you owe me this or you owe me that. And it's a beautiful, but really, really harsh kind of story. Because up in this version, he's bastard. like he is he is a mean cantankerous old guy who's just running out the clock he's bitter at the world and you know the racism comes out the homophobic you know like he's that you see on the TV show except much sharper how did the change to the TV show happen because in the show he's well I mean we were talking about this for a roll we can talk about it again in the first episode you see immediately this like like you mentioned the racism the homophobia if you want to talk about that

and then his softer side. So how did that transition happen, stage to screen? It was one of those, and I think it was a smart choice to make. They young down the family by about 10 years. And that made it more sort of accessible for a general, a broader audience to sort of come along. Because this was a show that, you know, there was not, to my knowledge, other than fresh off the boat,

but in Canada, it was the first show with an all-Asian cast that was a comedy. And we wanted to sort of use. You wanted to cast a wide net, which is why the parents never spoke to each other in Korean. I mean, this is something that we discussed. It was like, well, why aren't Appa and Oma would never buy themselves speak in Korean? Like, we were willing to do that. We wanted to do that to add a sense of authenticity to the show. But we were told, no, no, no.

The season one, you want to bring in as many people. You don't want people to feel like sort of shut out or like, there's a barrier. There's a language thing. I don't want to do that. So that's, you know, little concessions were made in an effort to broaden the audience up. and to bring them in. And so we young down the, the family. So we had a younger son, a younger daughter.

So that was, you know, more of an appeal to the younger audiences. And we soften the characters a little bit because they weren't at that point in the journey where everything was so broken down, everything was so hard that, you know, life hadn't beaten them up by that point. So there was a softer version of them. Also because it was supposed to be a family sitcom, they lightened it. I mean, there's still a lot of cutting. humor in it, it just not is

kind of sharp as the play. The play, there's some moments. I mean, season one, we had a lot of elements of the play that were incorporated into season one. But it didn't have the same sort of bite that the play did, right? And so that was basically it.

And so we gentle down the characters and it was like this whole idea of now there's, I called them Appa Prime from the play and, you know, the TV Apa. And they start at the same point, but they diverge because the amount of growth that you see from Uppa in the TV series, he could never, ever get to the point where Uppa in the play is at,

right? So it's kind of like that Star Trek universe where they're sort of running along. Yeah, like the mirror verse or the timelines that are, yeah, in various. Now, which version of Kim's convenience takes place in the 616 universe? That's the, oh, that's a good question. That is such a good question. How do I, how do I, how do I, how would I answer that? Because there's so many great arguments for both. My initial gut reaction would be the play because that's the original, right? And then the TV version would be in one of the alternate ones.

But the 616 is, which is the prime one, I think it would have to be the play just for that reason along. I think the first episode of Kim, Kim's convenience is one of the best pilot episodes I've ever seen. I agree. I mean, I really do rank it up there with cheers. even though I think your character is more like an Archie Bunker for the 21st century. And that really came out in that episode. So, you know, can you talk to us just about that plot line where, you know, there's a gay pride parade outside? He's uncomfortable.

And then these guys come in and he tells them, oh, no, I'm not gay. I don't hate gay people. And then where that takes us and how it felt alike, what that meant for the character. That first episode, I mean, and thank you very much for saying that, you know, being compared to Carol O'Connor and Archie Bunker is the hugest, the biggest compliment because, wow, fantastic character, fantastic actor. And so to be mentioned in the same breath is, it's humbling. That, I think the success of that first episode came about because, A, the writing was great, the storytelling was great, but we had fully formed characters and we could hit the ground running like that because we had done the stage version of the play for a number of years. So I knew the character of Apa backwards, inside out.

He was somebody that was intimately familiar with, had played, portrayed on stage over a thousand times. Gene Yun, who played Oma, same with her. Like, we knew these characters. And so putting them into a show, into a scenario where they were just faced with these different storylines was easy. And there are a lot of shows when they're just trying to figure out the pilot episodes, you got great actors. But they don't know the characters as well. They're not intimate with them. They're still figuring it out.

And for us, we knew that. And so I think that gave it to such a solid foundation and deep, deep roots that is very, very hard to replicate unless you know these characters as I mean intimately. That's very interesting because you think about a lot of other sitcoms, right? Like Parks and Rec, for example. Like I love every single episode of that show, but there's a lot of people that say, skip the first. season, you know, they're still figuring it out and buy on. But that is an excellent point with, you know, you and Gene having already been in these shoes for so long, why that show like truly hit the ground running from episode one. And it is, it's that whole idea of it being

a lived experience as well. And that links back to the writing because, you know, Ince was adapting moments of his play into the into the TV series and you know there's something so absolutely refreshing and comforting and challenging about being able to play a character that you are so familiar with that you recognize when I first read for up like for the first sort of draft of up but way back in the day when we were when when Inso was developing the play and workshopping it I looked at him and went I know this guy oh my god I know this guy this is my dad, this is my uncle, these are my grandfather, you know, these are all these stubborn Korean men I know.

And I was like, I know how to play this guy. And it's that feeling that self-assuredness and confidence of knowing, okay, I know how he's going to react to these situations. And I know how to make it real and how to make it funny too. And so that's what happened. And so when we came in, it was just lovely sort of moment where he's at the beginning. And one of the customers, I think his name is Roger comes in. And played by Paolo Santheluccia, who is now the artistic director of Soul Pepper Theater, which premiered Kim's convenience.

How about that for a nice little nerd cut? So he played Kevin, who is Roger and Kevin. Kevin was played by another wonderful actor. But him sort of going, you know, like, no, I don't, you know, this is a huge gay town boy. It's like, and the homophobia is there. But then it's the whole like, no, no, no, no, there's a poster that's too messy. You know, you have to fix? It's just, do you have a problem with gay people?

It's like, no, I don't have a problem with the gay people, but I have a problem with what the parade bring. Everything too noisy, lots of garbage. All these, he's like throwing up all these different reasons why he doesn't like it. And then when he's confronted with it, he's like absolutely backpedaling and stuff. And it's this whole, I think it's a mirror on regular society. Everybody wants to be the good guy. but when you're confronted with, like,

sound a little bit racist, a little bit homophobic, they immediately become on, go on the defensive, and they start to throw in other reasons. It's like, why can't gays be quiet? You know, like, yeah, you're gay, but can't be quiet gay, like Anderson Cooper, right? Why, why? Like, I am a Korean, but I don't scream.

I'm Korean, I am Korean, I'm Korean, I'm Korean, I'm Korean. And so, like, him trying to equate those things is just so, in his world, he's just trying to justify it. You listen to it out loud, it's absolutely ridiculous. But it's absolutely real. And I think that's why that sort of, that works because we can sort of see elements of that, either in ourselves or in people that we know, family members, friends, and whatnot. And I think that's really what's set this show apart in terms of content, storytelling, performance, right?

Because we weren't playing with the big canned laugh track. We weren't trying to play the joke. We were always trying to play the truth, and the laugh came from there. And we were very fortunate because we were able to start the show off with such a solid foundation. I love that so much. And, you know, you've spoken many times, too, about how, how, in that example, I think it's a great, or that episode is a great example of representation and pop culture. And that show, obviously, showing this immigrant Korean family, you know, its first generation with the kids and how they're confronted. fronting all of these different societal issues and then taking that,

taking those sorts of things and bringing representation to, you know, other live action shows that you've been in our nerd culture. Can you speak a little bit about how that has played a role in your career? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Like, I mean, Kim's convenience was a launching pad for my career. I mean, I've been, it's very funny because it's like when you, when somebody bursts out to the scene suddenly or they're recognized for,

for something and they're new. It's like, oh my God, it's an overnight sensation, 20 years in the making, right? Like, I've been working for quite a while in the industry, and, you know, I was a journeyman actor. My speciality was exposition. Because the types of roles that were afforded to me that I was able to audition for back in the day were very slim. You know, I wasn't good-looking enough or young enough looking to play these- Stop it. Parts, yeah. I see what you're doing. I was fashing for compliments.

Yeah. Everyone in the comments. Tell Paul how beautiful he is. Tell Paul he's good. He needs our help. Clap if you believe the Paul is beautiful, everybody. That's me fishing. That's me fishing.

Caught me. But the kinds of roles back then were very, they weren't real characters. They were caricatures, right? Really sort of disposable. And written by honestly, by non-Asian characters. It must be hard to take those roles, too. that you know, or like, were they, was it in, I mean, I don't want you to call out specific rules for you want to, but I mean, was it embarrassing or how did you, you know.

Ryan, you know, when you're, when you're starting off, everybody says it, you're starting off in the business, you're going to, you're going to get a lot of shitty parts. You're going to, that's the way that you've got to earn your stripes. You've got to go, you get to eat those shit, sell, you know, you're like, you've got to build up your career. But when you've done that and you're doing that and you keep doing that, and that's all that's available for you and you kind of feel like a piece of. garbage because it's like oh we've gone so far i've gone from victim number one to thug number two

right or whatever i mean it's that whole and the types of roles especially as because they were written by non-asian writers and this was their idea of like oh this is how asian people are kind of oh yeah with that really bad accent like especially when you read out the they try to write the accented broken the broken english oh god yeah but then there's that point where it's like well eat and if I don't take this someone else right so at what point you have to make a choice at what point do you kind of go how much how much of my soul am I willing to sell out before I say no yeah right like how much do I need this gig how much do I need the money because it's awesome being able to stand on principle is awesome you can't feed yourself on principle right I will never

judge anybody for taking a role because they needed the money yeah like honestly this is that's a fact life. Back then, it was normal. Nobody ever sort of blinked an eye at, like, how really badly written these non-white characters were. And it wasn't just the Asian community. It was all of them. I was going to say, I've heard stories from, you know, black actors saying, like, you know, they're going in and to read for a role. And then they're, what is, what is the term? It's like be sassier, right? Like, that's the, they want the, we're looking for more urban. Exactly. Exactly. And it's like the most offensive thing you could possibly. say they want you to put on the organ grinders sort of like dance yeah put on the do the little dance

dance around for them um and it's oh i hate it but that was what the industry was like used to this is what they thought it was and that's how disposable these characters really were they're like no no no we have a rich diversity of characters they're all in the background they're all totally caricature they don't serve the narrative they are literally just Yeah. Right. And so, you know, it's one of those things. And the defining trait was usually their ethnicity and not their character. That's it. Especially in the 90s. And so when you were getting your start.

I would hate whenever we got a breakdown for auditions and you'd see the sides, they'd have the character breakdown. And you could tell who the white characters were and who the non-white characters were supposed to be. Because the white character was just to name, a full description of who they were, their wants. They're like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you'd get these other characters with their names. name and in the brackets, and I hate this term, open to all ethnicities. No. That's the way it was.

Open to all that ethnicity. Okay. So these are all the parts. I'm not about to do. It's insane to me to think that, you know, I more than likely saw you in roles, like Harriet the Spy, for example, and didn't even, you know, and here's this actor who is, it turns out years later we discover is so great at what you said earlier, which is playing the truth and understanding the core of how.

how a person thinks and feels. And you bringing up that you relate to underdogs, I thought was, just a light went off of my head because that makes you the perfect Uncle Iro. Right. Who is this person who was part of this evil system. He went to war, his son died. Oh, it gets me every time thinking about the Bossin's Hay episode.

Who lost his son. And obviously, we don't have that story in season one. And I'm not gonna ask you to spoil season two. But there are these wonderful moments with your character where they added in the lullaby and score that just tore me apart, man. You're so great. Thank you. It really was.

That is like, but it works. I mean, so, yeah. You're so great in that role. I mean, what was it like, did you watch the original series? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, what was it like getting that part? I was going to say, how did getting that part, how did that part come to be? Was it something that you heard of the show and we're like, oh, my God, I need to audition or?

No. Oh, okay. So it's a long, it's a very funny story, actually. So in, I guess, 2018, it was announced that Netflix was developing the television series and, you know, Brian and Michael were involved and everyone was all like the, you know, and the fans rejoice because it was going to be correct all the, you know, the missteps from the movie back in like 2010 or 2014. Oh, I forgot about that. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, there's a movie. Yes. I was going to say, I never heard it before.

That's crazy. The scars run deep. And honestly, it's too easy to punch down at this point. That movie was, I think they underestimated the fans. I think studio had a lot of part to play in it. I've heard that there was a longer cut of that movie, which actually would have addressed a lot of what the fans thought was wrong. But I mean, that's, that's, you know, Warden of the Bridge.

2018 they announced that I got fan cast almost right away because I was pulling up on Kim's convenience and I went oh my God and just based on how I looked and because my character had an accent they're like this guy this guy right oh yeah because that was pre-Carsentiva

that's right yeah that's right and so I was already committed to Kim's convenience they had number one position on me and so there was there's no way production was going to let me go to another show that would take me out for so long right And as it was they're right, contractually. And I was like, oh, that's cool. It's very flattering.

When you see that as an actor, you kind of go, oh, that's cool. Yeah. But, you know, back then, the fans didn't have as much pull as they do nowadays in terms of, like, metrics. And, you know, you look at the algorithm, you kind of go, oh, this might actually be something. You know, studios are looking way more at those numbers now than they used to. And I thought it was really cool. And then what ended up happening was, uh, Genune. who, you know, played oh, she said, hey, you're a nerd.

You'd love this series. We just, I just finished watching it with my son, Avatar of the Last Arabander. He's like, oh, okay, cool. And I just, I watched it. And I think it was, it was in 2017, she told me to watch that. And so I sat and I watched it and was like, oh, that's, that, it is really cool. And that's awesome, right? So 2018, I get fan cast.

That's cool. And then nothing from it, like, the show sort of goes to its ups and downs. You know, Brian and Michael leave the show. There's a bit of scorched earth policy happened. you know with what went on I've heard both sides so it's very interesting we all got kind of busy

during 2020 with some other stuff which I'm sure pushed it back a little bit we all decided to take a long vacation in 2020 and everybody just thought to kick back and relax and then what happened to us in 2021 and this happened really quick they had already cast

the majority of the characters Kim's had ended and I was doing I was doing the Mandalayan and I got this audition And it was like for this, what was it called Blue Dawn? Oh, whatever the nickname, the, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, right. It was like, what's Blue Dawn about?

And I'm looking at, it's a basketball movie. And I kind of go, hmm, I'm not a big fan of basketball. Not Blue Harvest, but I like sports movies. Right, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's the thing. And so, you know, because everybody's a fan, the writers are fans, everybody's a fan, right? So there's always those interconnected deep cuts that are there with code names. And it didn't even dawn on me that this would be a code for,

something else, right? This is how naive I am. And so I read it and I almost don't do the audition. And in it, it was for the part of Harold who was a, uh, used to be a prodigate, used to be a great basketball player, uh, retired and became a, a well-respected coach in the collegiate level. And he comes out of retirement to mentor his young nephew, who is a basketball prodigy. Sounds so like, how, how could I have missed it? But I wasn't thinking of that. And so, you know, that's amazing, though, that they sent you, that's incredible. Yeah, but I mean, they had written scenes that were very reminiscent of the scenes that we did, but not as they were still, they were parallel, but they made sense as a basketball. You keep the sides?

Yeah. I've, I've seen some, some of the original sides for, like, Ray and Finn for the first auditions for Force Awakens. And it's, and it's, they're not scenes from the film. But it is similar in that it's, it's like adjacent. It's a cousin to. Yeah. They want to see if you can go through. Yeah.

They want to see if you can go through those beats or capture the essence of those characters that they're looking for. So without spoiling what you're auditioning for. Did you work? I mean, I'm sure you're probably about to tell us this. But like, did you work just as hard on that basketball coach part as if you were auditioning for Avatar? No.

at least you're honest yeah it was a taped it was a taped audition so I wasn't going into the room in person I almost didn't do it because I'm lazy and I was like nah I don't know but then there was something about I the lines were really easy like it was so well written I was like

okay I'll just do it I'll just do it and it was a fun there were two scenes that were really fun and one was he's bringing his his nephew can't remember the nephew's name but he brought him to this underground basketball sort of game where it was just like, it's cutthroat. And he said, these are guys that aren't going to turn pro. And they're nasty.

No quarter given, no quarter asked. They play hard. They play rough. But you learn more about the game than you'll ever learn in a regular sort of setup. And it was really fun scene to sort of portray. And then the next scene was of me and the character's name was different, but it was the avatar. There's a scene in season one

We're both in jail in Basing Say And we're talking about Zucco And in this case, you know, the sheriff comes in, gives me a rough time And we're talking about my nephew who escaped And hopefully is able to be You know, is halfway home by now But that was almost, that one's

Very close to the scene that we did In season one And that was another easy scene to do And so I submitted them And promptly forgot about it And a month later my agent calls up and says so you have a callback for Blue Dawn and it's a producer and director session and so you know they'll be they'll be there on your Zoom audition and I thought what the

hell is Blue Dawn like I couldn't remember it I could not remember it and then we're like oh oh okay I had to look it up so go the basketball thing I was like cool I've always wanted to be in a sports film right yeah right and then you know casting we'll send the side sides again. Okay, great. So I get the sides from casting. Sorry, at this point, did you not know it was a TV show yet? No, no, it was like I did, had no idea. You just

didn't know what it was. It's just like, because it's everything is layered in secrecy. Yeah. Right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally, it's like a selling a resistance. Like, the less you know, the less you can tell type thing. Right. But then casting sends me the sides and I'm like, okay, yeah, no, I remember

this. And then there's a note saying, it's quite clearly he said uh the character of herald by the way the character of harold that's not his real name his real name is iro and that's when i was like what yeah and that's when the other you named your character after the guy from avatar that's weird for a basketball movie like how long did you take break to really sink in like i looked at it and was like oh no oh my god oh my god and so that's when it sunk in it's like this is for avatar sorry and were they in the room with you and they revealed this? Did they get to see the look on your face?

I got this in an email or something. Got it. And I was looking and going, and then the panic starts to sit in. Because it's like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And so it was just like, that wasn't my best work. Like, yeah. And I thought, okay, okay, let's refresh. Yep. Let us, let us refresh. You never bring it to the dress. You know what I mean? Like, you want to save it for the real audition. So there's also that. So, you know, we breeze right past it because we're such avatar fans. But, Star Wars, man. I mean, you're a lifelong fan.

I think I see a couple of figures behind you. One or two. Yeah. Star Trek thing. I don't know what they're there. I want to know two things. I want to know, well, a lot of things, actually. Can we start with just your fandom and what Star Wars like meant to you as a kid?

Oh, God. Even before you were involved? Yeah. How much time do we have? This is, honestly. Long as we need for this set of questions. This is Star Wars. I have been a fan since I was four.

five years old when my dad took my sister and I to see it in the movie theaters. It was a special occasion because my dad was an immigrant parent who had to work all the time. So to get any time with him, especially at the movies, was, I mean, that's hitting a jackpot. She could have taken a seat of Texas chainsaw massacre and it wouldn't have mattered, right? Like it was. On a side note, which was out at the same time. Yep. Same point.

Here's a little side note, fun side note. The first movie I ever saw was not. Star Wars, it was Jaws. Oh, my God. Yeah. Wow. As a three-year-old? As a five-year-old.

Because it was, so Jaws 2 came out in 1977. And back in those days, if they were doing a sequel, they would show the first movie. And so that's how I saw it. So that's how the math works out for that. And that, Jaws is my favorite movie of all time. So just as an aside. So watching Star Wars, which was the second movie, and I'm a bit, like, I love spending time with my dad, but at this point, I was like, do I trust you?

am I going to get scarred by this too? But it was so much fun watching Jaws. It was like, it's got to be great. So that blew my mind because of all the special effects. You know, the epic, like the Tant of 4 being chased by the Star Destroyer right off the top. The rebel fleet troopers taking positions to try to defend the boarding party that comes on board, then getting wiped out, seeing Stormtroopers in armor, and then Darth Vader walks in. It's like, oh, my God.

it's a story about a young boy who dreams of bigger things and wants that adventure wants to matter and wants to make a difference and being held back and all these different things and I ate it up

and sounds like you might have related to that yeah it was all about Star Wars because the toys you know were coming out too right and I remember that I was going to say do you get the cool the cardboard pre-order thing that they sent out yeah no because my parents

They're like, we're not going to buy toys for you. Come on. Right. What did this? No. Make your own toys. I live vicariously through friends who got them, whose parents were getting them. And that whole summer, we were at a camp.

And I remember we, everybody at the camp, we recreate scenes from the movie. We basically played Star Wars by recreating all those moments. And, you know, the older kids, the cooler kids, they played all the leads, Han, Leia Luke. Chubaca, the droids, I was cannon fodder. You know, one of the little kids who were like, hey, come on, you know, you're going to be the rebel fleet trooper and you're going to get wiped out by these stormtroopers. I couldn't even be a stormtrooper, right? But it was so much fun just recreating all these scenes.

And that just sort of blossomed. And so, you know, Empire Strikes Back comes out in 1980. We've moved to Calgary, Alberta from Toronto. And my babysitter took my sister and I to see that. And that's the first time I remember seeing a, like being aware of a lineup, being so long to get into the movies, right? And being absolutely blown away by that, that whole reveal, the ending. I don't want to spoil it for people who haven't seen it. But if you haven't seen it, you know, go watch it.

But for everybody else, it's like, go. It's been a while for me. I'm trying to remember the reveal you're talking about. I guess I'll have to watch it again. Yeah, it's a rewatch. It's definitely worth it. It holds up. Okay.

Which is great. Yeah. It's episode seven. I can't remember. It doesn't matter. And by then I was, I had been able to convince my parents to get me the toys, some of the toys. And so I, you know, I got the Darth Vader, the case to hold the action figures, Han Solo, Hothound solo, robot, Stormtroopers. I got a little Star Destroyer play set, the Millennium Falcon, which was huge.

That was, that was, I don't know what I did to get that, but I sent my parents got that for me. And the ATST, I wanted the ads. You had the ATST? I had the ATST and I, that felt like honestly. Yeah, that was better. No, you want the chicken. You want the chicken walker. Well, it broke easy, right?

Did yours break? Because, like, they tended to. No, I would make my tap dance because, to be honest, I was a little disappointed. I got the, like, this is how ungrateful I was. Yeah. It's like, you jerk. You got these toys, first of all. Yeah.

Well, no, it wasn't even that. Like, I was very thankful. Like, I never told my parents. Like, oh, but secretly, I really. I really wanted the ad act. But the chicken walker's like, oh, okay, look, I can make him tap dancing. There's a button on the back with the leg.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's tap dancing. Look at that. Look at that. But the ATST was always destroyed. So it was always on its side with a figure like hanging out of its dead. Well, and the ATST was barely in Empire too. They were just like kind of at the bottom of the ATA of the AdD.

So of course you wanted veers. You wanted veers in the cockpit. Yeah. And I remember quite distinctly like when people saw the chicken walk to go by, they laughed. Yep. They were all laughing at it. Oh.

Wow, really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. So that's why they're scary in Jedi, but yeah. Well, and that's a thing. Jedi, they redeem themselves because it's like, oh, no, this is a killing machine. Yeah.

Type thing. But so then I was firmly entrenched in the toys by, and that's when, like, seriously, I think that's the one I really became a collector because it was like, there are all these toys that I wanted to sort of, and because I would play with them. I was not interested in GI Joe, even though they had more points to articulation. Because, like Joe, like GI Joe's, but they weren't my jam. Transformers. Oh, my God. These two cartoons that are basically toy commercials, right?

I couldn't, I had to stay in my lane. I had other friends who had the Transformers, other friends who had the Joes. But for me, it was Star Wars. Like, that's, that's my first love. That's who took you to the dance. And that's who you're going to stay with. Who took you to the tap dance, right?

The ATS state. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So how did that? And then, Heather, that was amazing. I got you. I got you. I, so how does that go from, you know, you're collecting all the toys, you love that to like then you started you became a 501st member like yeah well that happened yeah prior to the casting it did it did actually oh yeah because you have a great story about the

costumes i remember we talked about on our other podcast together yeah yeah yeah because you you had your own flight suit oh yeah i i mean that and that's a thing so uh i i've been a fan so like I read the books, comic books, the toys, and like throughout my entire life. I mean, I think once you become a Star Wars fan, you never stop being a Star Wars fan, really. I think the majority of people that I talk to. And there are different levels of engagement with it because there are times you're like, okay, and you move on. But, I mean, I've always been sort of hardcore into it and, you know, read novelizations and comics. My man.

Yeah. So I was doing, I did Kim's convenience. You know, I worked really, really hard. and had a little bit of TV money in my back pocket. And so it was this whole idea of, okay, so how am I going to treat myself? How am I going to treat myself? And here's another little side. I was a huge fan of Ghostbusters.

And I'd always wanted a proton pack. And so I did some really, really deep research into it. And as a reward for myself, I built a proton pack after season one of Kim's Convenes. I spent about a year, almost two years, acquiring. all the different greeblies, the parts, the kits that were necessary for the electronics. I scoured over multiple build threads

and I had all the pieces that I needed to construct a proton fact. So that's what I did. And it's kind of like when Alexander, you know, when he conquered everything, he looked across his empire and lamented because he thought

what more is there to do. And then Star Wars came galloping into the picture. It started with my kids because Halloween was coming. I had a rudimentary Jedi outfit that my wife had sewn the cloak for and the tabards and stuff. And it was like a really, really great starting costume for it. And I have the master replicas, you know, Obi-Wan Kenobi lightsaber. And I thought, oh, but the armor.

No, they like Stormtrooper armor. And I saw that these people were making costumes for their kids. So I did research on that. And so I built a little mini-TK Stormtrooper costume for my youngest. and my eldest because we had seen Rogue One. That's the first movie I pulled them from school and we all went and saw Rogue One together. So it's kind of like full

circle of my dad taking my sister around. So he wanted to be a a Shore Trooper. And so I built those two costumes from kits that I got, painted them, fitted them, put the strapping on and I was like, damn, that was fun but I don't get to wear them. So I'm

going to get one for me. And that's how it started. And the first costume was a Thai pilot And it just sort of branched out from there. And now I have the 5001st, that's imperial based. That's all the imperial costumes. The Rebel Legion is the other side. And they have very different sort of methods of approving, approving costumes for being part of the organization, gaining membership, as it were. And I still, I have an honorary sort of membership in the Rebel Legion.

I pushed that off for so long, but I finally had to accept it because it was just getting rude. Because I wanted to get it on my own merits. Like, I wanted to sort of earn it on my own core. You want to get by on your own steam? Yeah, because I had, I had all the pieces. I just didn't submit for approval because it's a weirder, not weird. It's a different system of approval for the Rebel Legion than it is for the 501st. So that was, it was just a little bit more intimidating for the Rebel Legion.

So I put it off. But, yeah, I know I have, I have a few costumes. So. And so this is all before. Yeah. Yeah. And this gut sparked. The joining 5001st came from when I was at a Starlight Foundation dinner. It was a make-a-wish thing. And they were members of the 501st there. And everybody else went inside because there was this sort of like a chamber where you walk through to get to the main dining hall. And I stayed in that chamber and all I did was just yacking, yacky-knack and talk with the members of the 5001st who were fantastic.

And they were like, let me know, oh, yeah, you can totally join. This is what you need. Blah, blah, blah. And that's what really sort of got me on my high horse It's just sort of like, okay, let's go. Let's build some stuff and have fun dressing up like plastic spacemen. Is there a goal costume that you haven't done yet that you want to do? I have several costumes. I're still under various levels of completion. So I'm going to, I've had to stick a pin in terms of getting more costumes.

Until you finish. Currently, I have a tank commander from Rogue One still. I need to build. I've got a TK from the sequel trilogy that I still have to trim and build I have a rebel fleet trooper like the helmet that I still have to build I'd like to do an update on my X-Wing costume

because now I have there are different variations from the one that I have which is an OT pilot costume to something that's a little bit more in line with a mandolorence here so the pilot costume that I'm wearing because I have detailed pictures so there is that as well oh my gosh there's and then you know watching and or like watching

some of the ISB uniforms look really great some of the rebel you know troops those imperial pants do not look great the pants with the joggers well but for a reason I mean they're they're meant to no I know I know you don't want to walk around with them all day to con no one looks at those and goes that's fashion that's fashion Like that that's badass That's they go that's fascist There you go Oh my gosh

So you're a huge fan You have these You know you have these costumes already You know you're Yeah Like what was walking on to set The first day Like being in Star Wars

You know It's One of the questions I get asked a lot Is did you use your own costumes For the show Which is a great compliment And the answer always gives us no Because they have a whole department

Professionals who do that That's kind of their thing Now that's not to say they have used Individual costumers Armour like in that First Season of Mandalorian They had the 501st from the Southern Garrison SoCal Garrison come in

Because they couldn't afford To build that many screen accurate costumes And they didn't have the time for it Whereas you have an organization where they all have Yeah So let's kill two versus one stone Give a bunch of people the thrill of a lifetime, make some great TV.

But stepping on was just whenever you sort of join and you're part of a machine, and that's what it is. Because, you know, at the end of the day, the Mandalorian was a TV show set in the Star Wars universe. I've worked on TV shows before, right? And so the nuts and bolts are pretty much the same. Every department they have, the jobs are the same, right? It's just there's nothing like really that is so spectacularly different, which is not true.

But I mean, the nuts and bolts of it are the same. It's just like the content is different. And so, you know, and the scale, obviously, because I'd work on a number of Canadian shows. I've worked on American shows shot in Canada, but I'd never worked on an American show shot in America. And especially something from Lucasville. And so immediately going into the wardrobe department was. seeing all the costumes on racks and all the greeblies and the helmets

and the boots and the pants and everything that was being constructed and the armor and things that were there that I recognized are like why is that there that's interesting like when I walked in I remember one of the first things I noticed because I was building the costume was a mud trooper helmet and I was like from solo I'm like I know that and I see the face mask

what's doing here because this is the Mandalorian so why do they have these pieces here and you find out later on in season two ah like all these other things but like I'm you when you're there you're only I mean at least for me was only given a small slice of the pie

which is this is what you're doing and that's your scenes yeah I have no idea what else is going on was your first day on set in the cock cut um oh my God yes was it

and was it Because in the BTS, for the first season, I don't know if they just for second season. Did they have the X-Wing in the volume? Or what was that like? Yeah. I remember the volume. Yeah, we went, it was in the volume. The cockpit was in the volume. There was the, uh, no, my first thing on set.

Sorry, my first thing on set was, that was with Carl Weathers directing. Uh, nowhere near the cockpit. We're actually on the back lot. Speaking of Ghostbusters. No. Yeah. I love Carl. Oh my God.

It was just, what a, what a, what. what a fantastic man, how, how intimidated I was at the beginning. I've got a lovely story. It can play comedy, could play, you know, drama, action, incredible. And he's directing this episode and he's, he didn't cast me. I didn't, I wasn't cast from Carl. You didn't know who I was and which led to a little bit of the whole, like, who are you and why are you here?

I was like, ah, it's okay. I can act. I actually have some. I've won awards in Canada, but it's okay. But it was great, sort of proving myself to him and getting him to relax and kind of going, oh, okay. And sparking up a bit of a friendship, which was wonderful. And then getting him and he watched Kim's convenience, all of it. And then became a super fan as well, which was totally unexpected because I remember after the first day of like just working and working and working, you know, he lightened up.

And he was very a little bit, he was more open and more relaxed. And it's like, so, like, what have I seen? What have you been in? What can I watch you in? That's so cool. That's awesome. I'm like, yeah, there's a show called Kim's Convenience. It's, you know, it's a Canadian show.

It's on Netflix. You know, it's like, I'll watch it. I'm thinking, you're not going to watch it. But thank you for saying that. And then in season three, him going, pull, pull, like running across the backlaw to me saying, I watched Kim's Convenience. Why are we not working together more? And that, for me, was just like.

That is incredible. A guy who you also grew up watching. Yeah. I mean, you know, in the 70s and 80s. This is Apollo Creed. This is Action Jackson. This is, you know, this is Dylan from Predator. It is just, you know, Chubs from Happy Gilmore.

Yeah, I was about to say, yeah. An incredible amount of range. So the second time I was in town is when we did the volume, and I was in that X-Wing cockpit. And there's a part of me that's still there, still flying around in that. Because they had this whole chase sequence. We were chasing the razor crest down Muldo Crees, you know,

into the atmosphere. And we did it like eight times, just going through and like, you know. Were you screwing up takes on purpose? So you'd have to do it again. Okay. No. Because if people don't know that what they would do is they took the X wing and then, or the cockpit or set or whatever,

but you were filming with the stuff around you because it's the volume. So it must have like that in just case the audience says, And it must have felt like you were Luke Skywalker on the trench run. It is better than any ride, like roller coaster, you can be on. It is a simulation, right? Now, it's not to the point where wherever the stick moves is where the camera moves. There's a certain path that you have to take, you know, get used to that to sell the image of what you're doing. But it is, I mean, I used to do that in my head when I was five years old.

I'd sit in a cardboard box and I'd draw little controls with marker and I'd sit there with a pot on my head pretending it was a helmet and I'd be doing the trench I'd be doing that exact same and as an adult when you're sitting there

and you're in a cockpit that was used in Rogue One working lights, buttons, switches a canopy that closes down, a flight stick you're in full costume with a helmet and then they have state of the art digital technology where you are surrounded by ILM Stagecraft of the volume

where it's a high definition image being projected even on the ceiling and you are your cockpit like what you're sitting in is bolted to the ground but everything else is moving you feel like you're flying it's like there's that disconnect where I remember I was sitting there

and they had the star field and the guys at the genius bar which is what they call the controllers for the volume they just made the star field go and I was like oh and it was Because I thought I was doing barrel roles. Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. Who's the director of that, yeah, okay. If you ever get sick, just look at the console. Don't look out because that's the reality your eyes are like you're not really moving. Everything else is. Wow. That's so cool.

I never thought I'd be able to experience something like that. So what I'm hearing, much like Kim's convenience, right, when you did the TV show, you had already played this role in your head since you were five years old. And so that's why you were able to just jump in. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, and that's the lovely, I read some lovely compliments. I mean, I'm cheap that way and I go on to Reddit and, you know, years later, just sort of looking. And people, a few fans thought that I was part of the original trilogy as a came here. Who's this guy?

Why is he here? He must have been in the original trilogy. Well, because they had done that. They did that in Rogue One and stuff though, right? Like they. Yeah. So. Yeah.

Oh, the movement they spliced in the footage, right. it's uh carson teep is one of those characters every time i see him pop up i know we're in for a good time it reminds me of uh agent colson um who didn't die who did not die because of agents of shield but it reminds me of agent colson being this connective glue between these shows yeah so not only do you get to be in star wars but you hopefully get to be cannon fodder in a future project to build the characterization of other no i'm joking but like it is great to see that character pop up because Star Wars is so hard. You have all these different creators,

making very different things in different corners. So just to have this guy pop up who lets us know, hey, here's what's going on with the New Republic, through a great story device. Like, I'm one of the people who really loved Mandalorian season three, especially that episode that showed Pershing on the planet and everything. And when you were pushing to get help on the Mandalorian planet, I loved all that because you're showing us the ineffectiveness of the New Republic.

My problem with the sequel trilogy was always, how did these teenagers screw this up? Why is the empire back? And I think your character is an important building block for fans. Thank you. Yeah. So the Agent Colson reference or comparison, again, is delightful and so humbling. And it's great. And it's fun to have this character blossom into that type of role. I think when I first started off, it was kind of going to be, I think in their eyes it was like, I'll wait and see. Let's see how he does with this and maybe we'll continue with him or maybe not. And so luckily, they keep asking me back, which is like everything after the first two episodes is gravy for me. Like I'm thinking, this is awesome. And so to be able to build that sort of that role, but to play that function, as you say, in terms of, you know, being that expositional storyline that shows how bloated.

the democracy is in the new republic and how like it's easier to be a band of freedom fighters when you don't have to answer to all these authorities. You just, you can act on a whim without any worries about consequences versus actually having to run things, right? You look at that and go, isn't not how the old republic sort of went down because of the bureaucracy? I mean, that's what, you know, the argument did that start? It's like, how could, how can they, how can the, you know, how can the empire function without the bureaucracy of the republic, right?

It's like, no, the regional government governors will take control. And say what you will about the empire, but you always knew who was in charge. Well, and it was one of those things where people like, as long as the trains are running on time type thing, it's a really weird. That's the kind of screwed up hot take that we like for our last segment here called Hear Me Out, where Heather and I and a guest, if you want to join in, if you don't, feel free to be a spectator. We say a take, a topic, a theory, whatever, just something to gin the juice for the comments down below. Harriet, or Harriet, Harriet's somebody else. Heather, do you have,

Harriet's an editor who just sacked me. Heather, do you have anything for Hear Me Out? Well, Harriet's also the spy. Yeah, I know. Full circle with the intro, baby. I love it. I love it. I do.

I do have one. So I'm just going to have a hear me out. Hot take on, I think the short trooper is the best Storm Trooper that the Star Wars universe has. And I don't think it's like an even close comparison. It has the most practical armor design. It looks like they might actually survive field conditions. It's tailored towards coastal warfare. It has reinforced plates, the, you know,

tactical pouches. The color palette makes sense for the environment that they're in. And I just think it's a refreshing, uh, refreshing departure from just like white plastic. Hey, quick question related to Stormtrooper armor since I'm, I'm here with both of you guys. You know, the original intent of that design was so they could be space suits. Can they function in space? Are they like, because there's not like a vacuum seal when they take their helmets off? No, those are not practical. Because the Mandalorians do have a vacuum seal in their helmet.

All right, this is for another time. I can tell already. Dead air. No, here's mine. Here's mine. Okay. So on the channel, it's a little awkward to have somebody who was in Book of Boba Fett when I've been, you know, like critical of the show. But I don't hate the show, right?

We talked about this beforehand when I said I was sorry. But there's one thing in the show that people kind of maligned online that I love, and I will defend this moment, because I think this moment is what the show is about. During that great final episode, to pour out all your action figures and play with them all at the same time, one of the mods does a completely unnecessary spin before he shoots, and it's one of my favorite things in the Disney era of Star Wars. These stories are fun, like George Lucas said. They're made for 12-year-olds.

And when you're, Paul, when you're a kid and you have to be the Stormtrooper or whatever you're playing, that's the kind of dumb shit you do. And it looks cool and it's fun. I love that moment. You know, like for me, every other thread in that season really came together. And there's that like last 40 minutes. Specifically, that spin. It was.

Not seriously. I think you can say I would make a video if I thought anyone would watch it, but you two, called Here's why that spin works. Well, spinning, it's a neat trick. It is a trick. Thank you for that. Paul, did you have anything? You want to chime in and hear me out? Oh, so I didn't know it was something that I had contributed to directly.

You don't have to. You don't have to. You can bow out right now and walk away with honor if you want. It's okay. No, no, no. First of all, I think I was only in Buick-Abo-Fevette for like 30 seconds. And so you don't have to feel bad if there was parts of that that didn't work for you. And it was the best part of the show.

Yeah, yeah. So in that vein, and I agree with you, I think, you know, with the way you describe the spinning move and how it works for you and how it is actually designed just to be cool, right? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think sometimes as adults we look at things a little bit too pragmatically because you have a wide gamut of realism that is portrayed in the Star Wars universe. I mean, and the universe can take that, right? So you can have the absolute sort of truthful, authentic sort of parallels to modern day society and. and or to the spin-around move in Book of Boba Fett. And I think it all works.

And I think that's great. Heather, I agree with you. I think the short trooper armor is absolutely the most practical. My son wears it. You can sit down in it. You know, it's way more functional. It's way more practical. And it does look super cool as well.

And short troopers are actually designed to be superiors to the rank and file TKs. Right. So they're often squad commanders, leaders, and whatnot. I didn't know. Their visors also allow for accurate shots. There you go. There you go, because it's one long visors that are two eye holes. Yeah, like the scout shippers, right?

My hot take is this, and I'm going to go, I'm going to bring it back. A lot of times Carson Teva has been referred to as a traffic cop, like a policeman, right? No, sir. And it has been one of those things where it's like, oh, they're basically pulling people over and giving them tickets and this and that. And I would posit that, no, he's still a soldier. They're still soldiers, right? They're not going out looking for rinky dinky. When you're first introduced to them, they're looking for imperial remnants, right?

Which in his mind is like they're out there. And so it's not like a traffic stop to hassle people. Here's a ship without a transponder that is refusing to send out signals. And then that runs, right? His job is not to help him afterwards when he's, you know, when he says, why don't you help me put the ship together? Like, no, why don't you fix it yourself and think about that the next time you try to run from us? right yeah so you know and the same thing with um in terms of the book of boleafet because they say well they call in he tries to stop the n1 it's like because the n1 is buzzing around a commercial

starliner if you had a plane nowadays flying around a commercial plane they would send out not the police they would send out a military jet to intercept and assess the situation so my posit is Carson Tava and the New Republic the Rangers, the Adelphi Rangers, are not cops. They're a military unit that is severely underfunded and overextended. Well, there it is. I can't argue with that.

Well, Paul, it's just been incredible talking to you. Thanks for sharing your fandom. And honestly, like, there's a million things. I hope we have you on again because we didn't get to a lot. I want to talk about the EU novels for an entire hour. But until then, again, thank you so much. I have been here with

Heather Antos. I am here with Ryan Airy. And of course, guys, be sure to subscribe to us on every major podcast platform. And if you want to know, if you have any comments about who we should have on next, let us know in the comments below, or you can add any of us on our socials. And if it's your first time here, please subscribe, smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Airy.