ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - Severance Ending Explained & Season 3 Predictions - Exclusive Interview with Kier Eagan

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

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Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Welcome back to Screen Crush, Refiner's. Hey, welcome back to Screen Crush. I'm Colton Ogburn, and the Severance Season 2 finale had perhaps an even bigger cliffhanger ending than the first. So many of our burning questions were finally answered,

but a plethora of new questions have emerged as well. Questions that I'm going to try my best to answer for you right here, right now. And a little later, my friend Pete and I are going to pick the brain of Kear Egan himself, Mark Geller. And after that, I'm going to share with you where exactly I think Mark and Helly are running to and how they may be running straight into Keir's trap. It's a trap! Hey, by the way, we have a lot of great severance-inspired shirts, mugs, posters, magnets, you name it, we can optics and design it.

We've got our newest addition to the collection. I completed Cold Harbor and all I got was this lousy t-shirt, as well as our praise cure sticky note shirt, the hang in there and tame thy tempers in the Bohemian Rhapsody Pose. Special shout-out to my wife who did each of these designs. And be sure to get your shirts and whatnot now because these items will be leaving the store soon. Link in the description below.

So first, let's explain what Cold Harbor actually ended up being. We learned this season that Gemma was essentially abducted by Lumen. Now, whether that means she was coerced into going with Lumen with a false promise of helping her and Mark have a child, or if they physically kidnapped her, we don't know those details, not yet anyway, but we do know that once she was there, she didn't want to be there, not anymore. And they were using her essentially as a lab rat for the severance chip and testing that severance procedure. Now, we learned as well this season that Lumen has been a part of Jima and Mark's life from the very beginning and when they first met, they were at a Lumen-sponsored blood drive.

And then again, after Jimma's miscarriage, they go to a Lumen-owned fertility clinic. It is possible, perhaps even likely, that Lumen was responsible for this miscarriage as a way to lure in and manipulate the scouts. So what was Cold Harbor? Well, it was simply the final file, the final test out of 25 total on the severance chip. Last season, we learned that the severance chip could be utilized to help with work-life balance, making it to where an individual never has to experience a hard day's work. We also saw in that first season the severance chip being used with this wealthy woman.

She used the severance procedure to not have to endure the pain of childbirth. And that's what Lumen is doing here. They are developing a device in the severance chip that rids the world of any pain and unpleasantries. In those many rooms, Gemma would become a new blank slate consciousness, which was actually unknowingly pieced together by Mark on his MDR motto. We saw her at the dentist on a scary flight, writing hundreds of thank you letters to the point that her hand was cramping. So the severance procedure is marketed as a device that allows you to do all of those things that you need to do, but that

you don't want to do, such as going to the dentist to keep healthy teeth, but not having to endure the discomfort, or flying somewhere for work or for a vacation, but not having to face your fear flying. They are putting Gemma through the most extreme versions of these unpleasant experiences, and then they are quizzing her Audi about her memories of those experiences, which don't exist. These tests are tracking to see if there is any mental-based trauma seeping through the severed barrier, and the final test was to test the barrier's strength against a great pain like losing a child. And that's why the final test, Cold Harbor, was to put Gemma face-to-face with the same crib that we saw Mark tearing down following their miscarriage and their failure to get pregnant again.

Lumen wants to be able to market this procedure as a way to forget your worst day ever happened and to eliminate feelings of grief entirely. Essentially a get out of jail free card to help you forget, say, a painful breakup or the loss of a loved one. We have already seen Mark S testing this as he had no idea his Audi's wife had died and he was living in a blissful ignorance. And that is Lumen's entire goal with the severance procedure, providing blissful ignorance. But let's be clear, Lumen isn't doing the world a service by ridding it of pain. They are only ridding the world of pain for a certain percentage of consciousnesses in existence because they are simultaneously creating countless other consciousnesses that actually have to

endure this pain. And that plays into the theme of this series and its commentary on class disparity, worker exploitation, child labor, and slave labor. We too, in our real world, live in a blissful ignorance of many of the tragedies going on around the world while we simply go on about our day. Privileged individuals remain blissfully ignorant, too. Child labor happening all around the globe, the exploitation of working class, impoverished people, the deaths of millions of people around the globe due to starvation,

curable illnesses, and of course, war. We see this demonstrated with Lumen's early days in Saltzneck with the Ether Factory. Lumen was responsible not only for child labor in those factories, but their factory gave their employees' lifelong illnesses like lung cancer and addictions to the ether itself, a situation that I compared to what we saw happen in West Virginia in our real world with coal miners. These coal miners dedicated years of their life to this hard work, only to in the process destroy their back and get lung cancer. And then the companies that employ them, they don't do anything to help them out when they need treatment. and then another company comes in, a pharmaceutical company, and they push addictive pain medication on these same people. Now, in the world of severance, Lumen is both of these companies.

They are the company that owns the literal and metaphorical factory that exploits its workers for the company's own gain, but they are also the pharmaceutical company that comes in with this life-changing drug, or in this case, a procedure that offers relief to the very problem that they are causing. But there's a catch. The drug, or in this case, the severance procedure, it's not a cure-all. It just makes things even worse and it covers up the lies and deceptions, just like those same pharmaceutical drugs that were pushed on people. It didn't end up helping

them because it eventually stopped working and it became an addiction issue that ultimately ruined their lives and made them even worse off than they were before. So the reason that James Egan is so pissed when Mark rescues Gemma, it isn't because they're escaping, no. I mean, surely he could send security to round them up. He is really pissed because the blood Blank slate any of Gemma decided to trust and go with this blood-soaked Mark. This is proof that the barriers of the chip are not holding. Now, here in a sec, I want to tell you guys where Mark and Helly are running off to and how they're on the path to Keir.

But first, I want to take my own path to Keir and bring on Keir himself, Mark Geller. Okay, guys, well now Pete and I are very excited to introduce Keir Egan himself, Mark Geller. Every image we see of Keir Egan in this show, whether it be the... the mini paintings or his animatronic wax statue. They are all based on Mark's likeness. And Mark also voices Kear in his readings of the fourth appendix, as well as the animatronic cure. Good thing you didn't write the first appendix.

It would have burst. Now, I have some questions that I want to get into about that animatronic here, and that I want to ask Mark about, I'm not so sure that he'll be able to answer, but we shall see. Mark first, I just want to thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.

It's very excited to be looking at the screen and seeing Kier, chosen one Kier right in front of us. Yes. It's wild how they've really captured that look. But your first IMDB credit is from 1980. You were, I think, UFO follower in Stardust Memories with Woody Allen. Then in 2000, you appeared in a movie called Red Lipstick, and then you did a bunch of indie things while you were working on Broadway.

I want to know, how did the severance team find you and put you in this role? They didn't find me. I was sent into audition like anybody else. And they called me in. And I went and had a meeting in Ben's office up at the studio in the Bronx with Ben and Dan Erickson. And I believe one of the producers was there too. And there were many other people there also for the same thing. And that's how they found me. Mark, how much of a role did you have in, like, the development of this character of Kear? I mean, he's a character who appears in, or is, like, verbally mentioned in every episode of the series. And, you know, like, while you haven't, like, physically in the flesh been in an episode yet, that is, it feels like, you're part of, you're part of the main cast. So, like, do you have your own lore that helps you, like, get into the headspace when you're playing the character? and like when you go to pose for these many paintings and whatnot, do they share any lore with you to help you prepare?

They've told me some things. They haven't told me everything. There's so much information online and so many fan groups and so much Severance Wikipedia and stuff that I could pretty much mind anything I wanted to know. Yeah, that's great. It is the fan base for Severance has really taken off and become something probably bigger than you even, you even expect it.

Oh, definitely. It's an amazing fan base and a really talented fan base. We have a lot of, like, really talented artists and things as well. But it's a very loyal fan base and that they're great. Yeah, I would recommend going to check out Mark's Instagram. He's got all the kear stuff you can want to see. Yes, Mark shares great cure stuff, yeah. I like to show the art people do.

They spend a lot of time on it, and it's really good. Yeah, definitely. And it comes from a place of love. But one thing that I find interesting is that, you know, the reason it took me till after the show season one had completed was it had been referenced as a comedy. And, you know, Ben has even envisioned it that way in certain cases. But the humor is it's eerie and it's often inappropriately timed, but it's always incredibly effective. I don't think any of us were expecting Keir to be so brutal in his roast of Seth Milchick when the file was finally completed. How do you approach that?

And did the scene surprise you when you read it? And were you on set at all for that particular scene? I was on set for all with that, yeah. I was just... Oh, my God, that is awesome. I wound a corner on a headset and at a mic doing it. So I could see the movement and everything. Wow.

Were you expecting that kind of sort of bite from the character when you read it for the first time? When I read it for the first time, I was a little surprised. and then we had a couple of rehearsal days during which it changed a little and then we recorded it. And I have this right that Ben Stiller directed this episode, correct? Did he direct you in that scene? Very cool.

Well, okay, I have a question. When they were directing your performance of this animatronic keir, did they tell you to like take a certain approach of like, and I know, have to be careful about what you can say, but did they, like, tell you, act like an artificial intelligence, act like a, like a pre-recording or someone hovering over a microphone from another room and the voice box coming out of that? Did they give you any inclination to

what this consciousness or whatever inside that animatronic is? Or were you kind of flying in the dark? No, they didn't tell me anything. Told you nothing. I asked a few questions and They answered them, but nothing like what you just mentioned, no. I asked things, I asked Ben questions like, how old do you want him to sound? Do you want him to sound sickly? Because when I did the recording with Ben for the perpetuity wing in season one, they wanted him to sound like he was on his deathbed,

and it was supposed to be like, you know, I'm one of those old Edison recordings. Each man's character is defined by the precise ratio that resides in him. So I, you know, I asked where I was in terms of chronology and health, basically. Full compliment. The voice is perfect. It's just perfect for care. It seems it's almost like a, there's like that certain accent that comes with the Egan family and that even the way sometimes Cobell has kind of a, almost a Schitt's Creek kind of accent sort of coming from multiple places.

So, but to Colton's point, this, the voice for Keir is so, so strong and so. Because he lived in the 1800s in early 1900s, and, you know, I think he died in 1939, I wanted him to have that same kind of mid-Atlantic thing that movie actors had in the 30s. And, you know, obviously, no one ever really knows if a show is going to take off the way Severance has. It's become this sort of a cultural touchstone, a phenomenon. on. How does it feel to be playing such a pivotal role? And more importantly, not more importantly, but in addition, do you think we'll ever see you playing Keer in the flesh? Well, I hope, like I said, he's dead. So, and I don't really know that much of the upcoming

storyline, but that would be certainly on my wish list. I would hope that they might do something like, whether they do a flashback or something in a dream or a vision. I would love that, but I have no indication as to whether or not they will. Well, hi. I'm calling for it right now. They better do it. Yes. Bring him back.

In addition to that, though, the, how does it feel to go from, you know, sort of an actor who has had a number of roles, but isn't a household name to now being essentially, in some cases, some scenes, some episodes, the face of this show? It's great. I love it. I mean, I'm certainly not a household name still. I'm sure curious, but I would like to be. It's funny going back to what we were saying before about the voiceover recordings. When I was first hired after my interview and, you know, whole thing, and we did the first big photo session and started the paintings, my agent then got a call from production asking if I'd be interested in auditioning to be my own voice. They hadn't auditioned me for that. They didn't know if that was going to work. So I said, yes, I would like to audition to be myself. And so I did. I made the recording for them when they got back to us and said, yeah, he'll be fine.

So then I became his voice as well. Sort of James Earl Jones, Darth Vader kind of situation. Mark, you've mentioned a lot of the fan art and stuff you get. I kind of have two questions stemming off of that. And by the way, guys, please do check out his social media. He shares fan art that he, that he's, He's sent from, I would assume, around the world. And it's just all really, really talented artists giving their depiction of Keir.

And I really enjoy seeing what you share there, Mark. Come follow me on Instagram. Yes, yes. And we'll have a little graphic come up with your Instagram social. Do you ever get recognized as Kear? You ever, like, walking through the street? Somebody's like, hey, Kerry Egan. Sometimes.

But it's rare. And I think that's because people's minds don't put it together. because they're not seeing me live. Right. You know, they don't register a painting and then my face. A lot of people, to this day, I get things, I've gotten things this morning, actually. People don't realize it's not just an AI generated image. It's the real person behind it.

They're starting to realize that now. So that's nice that they're starting to realize that now. Did you end up having to sit for portraits like they would have done in the day? Or did they just capture you visually? I initially, in 2020, I think it was in November, because we were still wearing masks and things, went up to the studio and did a 10-hour photo shoot. Oh, wow. And because we were in the midst of COVID still, I had grown my beard very, very long. It was like really long, like zizi top.

My hair was super long because I knew I didn't have to do anything, so I figured maybe they could use it. So I went in and they fitted me for a few different costumes, like Civil War. things, and then the 1930s things, and just different things. And over a course of about 10 hours, they photographed me in reverse chronology. So every time we change the outfit, they would cut the beard a little and cut the hair a little and dye it darker. So by the end of the day, I was clean-shaven, had black hair. And so they had pictures of me at every age.

They have things to base things on every possible look in every possible age. Even you've probably seen on the show, there's like a Civil War painting. they've been showing a couple times recently where I have like a huge mustache kind of thing and that was real they just at that point cut the beard off and left the mustache for this huge beard and so we did all that live but none of it's like you know just all AI or made up not to fanboy but it it is crazy talking to the guy that plays kear egan because you know I've seen every portrait portrait research like oh what's this one called what's the story behind it so it's very cool and there's so many things that People, most people don't even see, like in the episode where they all go out in the snow, on the orbo, whatever it's called, orcbo. They all have, every one of them has on these big belt buckles that have my face in them. Well, buckles on my Instagram page, actually. They're like silver belt buckles and they're two goat heads and then my face in the center with this huge mustache going around. Well, I miss that one.

I'm not very good at this, am I? On my. Go, Colton. How could you miss that? I should have been consulting Mark. Mark, what we got in here? The only person you can really see it on for a minute is Ms. Wong. You see it on her if you're looking closely.

But they all have it, but they're under their coats, basically. Do you have a favorite scene that you've been a part of? Yes, the one we just talked about, the wax figure. Oh, my God. The performance you gave with the voice, I mean, it really sold that feisty exchanged between you and Milcheck. I thought it was so well done. It was fun to do. he's a lot of fun to work with. I really like Tremel. It's becoming very clear to me, Mark,

and it was already clear that not only are you in the show, but you seem to be like a pretty big fan of the show. I am. And I understand that they probably keep you, not just you, but all the other cast. I mean, it's quite common, you know, to keep cast members in the dark, especially on a show like Severance, like not revealing everything that's happening. So do you find yourself, like, each week, like, sitting on the edge of your seat, like, wondering what's about to happen? I do. I know some things, for instance, in the finale episode, because I was on set, I had some pages of the script, so I knew some things that were happening in scenes I wasn't in. But I'm still surprised by everything, though, and I still look forward to seeing it each week.

Although I will say, I've only seen every episode once, unlike most fans of the show. I've literally never seen more than one. I watch it myself on Thursday night, and then I watch it again on Friday with my wife, which is good because my wife is like, what did I miss? And then I have to, because then I've watched Colton dig it apart. And then I can answer her question. Not very well, apparently. I miss the belt buckle.

Yeah, you're missing the belt buckle. That's going to be me. I'm going to wake up in the middle of the night, cold sweats. I miss the belt buckle. Right. So you got one. Yes, yes. But for other things like the belt buckle, there's the plush toy that Dylan's kids play.

with me and there's uh there's this stuffed all of me on harmony's bed next to the stuffed doll of her it's a lot of you in the intro was the baby i love that when you look at mark right there at the end crawling around that i didn't know was coming i had no idea that was a thing until uh episode two of the second season because episode one didn't have credits a credit sequence so episode two happened and i was just waiting for the credits to end enjoying them because they're so well done. And then the very last thing, he came crawling out and I was like, pause, pause, but it's me. Well, Mark, I don't want to get you cross with your employer. So the only reason I'm asking this is because I think I know the answer. You actually, not very long ago, like just

a few hours ago, you just watched the finale. What were your thoughts as a fan of the show? I loved it. I didn't quite know what to, since it's, you know, an hour and 15 minutes long, I knew about 15 minutes of it before we started. So the other hour was all surprised to me. I thought it was great. I thought it built tension beautifully. I loved it. I loved it.

It met my expectation. Pete, what did you think about the episode? It was, you know, my biggest problem when I watch shows and movies that I love so much, I build up my own expectations, and I'm always afraid they're not going to reach them. This actually left me so fulfilled and wanting and demanding season three more than I was the first nine weeks. And I thought it was just, to your point, Mark, about raising the tension. And, you know, I thought one of the most brilliant scenes, maybe in the entire series, was the camcorder scene with Adam and Adam doing it. Just such a great way to tell that story.

and just the tension elevated within that as well so yeah no it was well you thought that was that was your second favorite scene oh of course yeah well yes of course right of course we had Pete you're embarrassing me in front of Martin I know sorry sorry thank you did a very good job in that scene but I mean let's be realistic yeah my favorite scene was your scene I just want to say thank you missed a bell buckle yeah speaking speaking speaking of that scene, this has, the episodes already aired and people have seen it, so I'm not going to be getting anything away, right? When we first read through the scene, the line about the wax figure being five inches taller than me was not in the script. And we, you know, did it. And then Ben

likes to take pictures. Ben has a camera, likes to take pictures. And he wanted to take some pictures of me next to the wax figure. And he wanted to take some pictures of me next to the wax figure while he was making it move and helped me move the same way, that kind of thing. And I was trying, it's very tall, the wax figure, and I'm not. And so I was trying to stand way up on my toes so I could try to get close to the head level. And I said, why is this figure five inches taller than me? And the next day when I came in, the line was there. Oh, my God.

It's my big credit for that line. I want writing credit. Yeah, you need some writing credit. And what it does as well, and not only is it funny, it's shocking because it's another milchick pushback. And then it leads to the opportunity for you to call him Seth, which is just, I feel like he doesn't like to be called that ever. It's like when I'm bad, when I was a child, my mother would call me Peter. I knew I was in trouble.

I was always being. When he hears Seth, he knows he's crossed the line. That was actually changed before you saw it as well. There was a different line at the end. I won't say what it was. I don't even know if I remember what it was. But a couple months after we did it, they contacted me and asked me to record a new last line. And that's where the, thank you for your feedback. Pause, Seth.

I also love about the five inches taller thing that plays perfectly into, I mean, I love you, Mark. You're great. But here, you know, a little full of himself thinks he's like this godlike guy. So, of course, you know, he lies about his height, has the statue to. It's more like a foot taller than me. It's very tall. It's taller than Tremel, and Tremel's probably 60 tall. Oh, good Lord.

Well, Mark, I want to thank you so much for joining us. It's been a real pleasure getting to talk to you, getting to talk to Keri and himself. Pete, I don't know about you, but this is like a career highlight for me. Yeah, for sure, absolutely. Yep, thank you so much, Mark. This has been great your insights. And again, it's here on the screen.

Thank you for your feedback, Pete. Pete. All right, you need to clip that out for people. Yes, I will get that for you. All right, guys, well, now I want to share with you my theory on where it is Mark and Helley are running to in the final shot of this episode. So in the finale, we see that James Egan has an admiration for Helly R. He sees Keir in her, and he states that he doesn't love his daughter, Helena.

We discussed in our breakdown how Ine's are more like their own outside selves from before those outies underwent some form of trauma. Helly is more like her younger self before her spirit was stomped out of her by her father, or should I say her tempers were stomped out of her by her father. James doesn't see Helena as his successor, at least not anymore. Remember, there is a long line of Egan's as Lumen CEO's, and he sees Heli R as the one who will be his successor. And with Mark and Helly essentially running back into the arms of Lumen,

I think they may actually be on the path to taking over the severed floor, placing themselves in charge, and Heli will be right where James and Keir want her, running Lumen. There are so many unexplored corners of that severed floor that we still have to explore in the next season, and I wouldn't be surprised if this underground level expands beneath the entirety of the town of Kier. If Mark S and Heli R want to be able to live a life together, their only shot may be a takeover of Lumen, not Lumen's destruction. I discussed in our breakdown of the finale, my theory that this process of constructing the building blocks of one's mind and tangibilizing their consciousness into code is how Lumen plans to grant eternal life to the

Egan's and followers of Kier. And I discuss the popular fan theory that the board actually consists of all the past Lumen CEOs existing on an actual circuit board as artificial intelligences. And those artificial intelligences are made up of the same building blocks we've seen used in MDR to create any's, any's like Helly. So if the current Lumen board and Kier are artificial consciousnesses recreated by Lumen, it would make sense for them to embrace an Eni Egan as their CEO, that of course being Helly are. Now my personal theory is that these artificial intelligences of the past Lumen CEOs view themselves as having transcended the physical form and they are now the

superior version of their flesh selves, viewing themselves as better than the original versions of their own consciousnesses that existed within the circuitry of a brain. So, where are Mark and Helly running? What path are they on? I think a war path. And I think we'll see them recruit Dylan, choreography and merriment, the mammalians, optics and design. And of course, they'll branch out and find many, many other any departments throughout the severed floor. And they will have an uprising. And Mr. Milchick, who has been cornered by Dylan and the marching band, you, Mr. Milchick. And keep in mind, Mr. Milchick has had his loyalty to Lumen Shake in this season.

And I think he will be forced by a Helly-led coalition of Ennis to show them everything there is to know about the severed floor. And I think eventually Milchick will do this without having to be forced. And in this process, I think Heli will unknowingly become the very thing James Egan wants her to be, the leader of Lumen, his successor, the next Lumen CEO, and an example example of a successful Lumen and Severance Procedure creation, and she will lead Lumen and Kier to their ultimate goal of global domination. In fact, I think we could see Heli take on a bit of an antagonistic role, and Helena take on a bit of a protagonist role, trying to warn

Heli of the evils of Lumen now that she's found herself discarded like Miss Covell. And on the outside, I think we could see a team like Cobell, Devin, Irving, Jima, and Ragabi working to still bring down Lumen and we could see them then come in conflict with this new N.E. Uprising. So guys, I loved covering the season of Severance with you and I cannot wait to do it again when season three arrives. Good news, Ben Stiller said that it will not be another three years. Thank Keir. And thank you Keir, aka Mark Geller for joining Pete and I for that awesome discussion. So if you haven't already, please do feel free to subscribe and smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm...

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