ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - SILVER SURFER Cast! - Did Marvel Make a Huge Mistake for Fantastic Four?

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

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Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. If you want to stop me, you're going to have to fucking kill me! Hey, welcome back, Screen Crush. I'm Ryan Airy. And guess what? We have our new Silver Surfer, and it's Julia Garner from Ozark. I don't know shit about fuck.

Now, this is huge news for many reasons. One, the New Silver Surfer is a woman. And I'm sure the Internet's going to have no opinions on that. and two, it means that we have confirmed that the villain of the Fantastic Four movie will be Galactus. Now, a little later, I want to talk to Colton Ogburn and Tommy Bechtol to get their thoughts on this. But first, we're going to talk about this casting, what this means for the Multiverse Saga, and a little later, I'm going to tell you why I kind of hate this casting news. Yeah, me too.

Yeah, but I don't hate the news for the reasons that you think. And I also want to thank all of you for watching us, supporting our channel and shopping our merch store where we design all the merch ourselves, like these Deadpool parody teas, the X-Fist Club, Nighthawks with the X-Men, and many, many more. First of all, yes, I know this casting is going to piss off a lot of fans, and not just because Julia Garner's a woman. But when you think of the Silver Surfer, you picture a regal cosmic entity whose ardor for exploring the cosmos is second only to his enthusiasm for summer sports. You don't necessarily picture this. You know anybody else who might want to kill her? Huh?

You fucking c-p. But I'll remind you, Julia Garner has a lot of range. Yeah, she was an inventing Anna. Yeah, and she was great in that. What's you wearing? You look poor. I don't think that Sarah Haley Finn, who was a casting genius, would have cast Julia if she didn't nail whatever they wanted in the audition. And also, you guys, comic book fans have always gotten mad at unconventional casting.

Michael Keaton was a stand-up comedian when he was cast as Batman, and fans assumed that meant the new movie would be campy. Fans hated the casting of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine because he was too tall. They hated the casting of Heath Ledger as Joker, and I mean, that guy just won an Oscar. So, I can give this actor the benefit of the doubt, but I want to give you guys a little background on the civil. silver surfer, especially this female version of the Silver Surfer, so when we talk about the movie, you'll know what to expect. So the Silver Surfer first appeared in Fantastic Four number 48. He was created by Jack Kirby to be the Herald of Galactus. So Galactus goes around the cosmos, eating planets to survive, and he uses the surfer to scout ahead and find suitable worlds. The Galactus trilogy was a three

issue arc leading up to Fantastic Four number 50. And I got to tell you guys, this was a huge innovation for comics back in 1964. It was very rare for a story to span more than two issues. The Surfer summons Galactus to Earth, but then Susan Storm appeals to his better nature and he turns on his master. Who ought to the watcher interferes? Like he always does, right? No. Galactus leaves Earth, but as punishment, he forces the Silver Surfer to remain on the planet, and he can no longer explore the cosmos. Surfer then became a staple of Marvel comics fighting villains like Mephisto. Now, Kirby leaving Marvel for DC caused some huge changes to the character that were very controversial. But before I get into that, I want to thank the sponsor of this video,

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Rad was a scientist whose home planet of Zen law was a paradise. When Galactus shows up, he begs him to not destroy his homeworld and to spare his love, a woman named Shalabal in exchange for serving as his herald. Now, Julia Gardner is playing Shalabal, a version of the surfer from the EarthX alternate universe comics, where Franklin Richards became Galactus and made her his herald. Those comics... So weird. So I'm not going to explain the right now. It does seem like, though, in this universe, it was Shalabal and not Noran Rad, who became the original heralds. So Galactus chose many heralds over the years, and none of them really stuck. Some became heroes, some were villains. But for me, the big takeaway of all this is that the

villain of this movie will be Galactus. So let's add this into what we already know. The movie is set in the mid-1960s, the same era when the original Surfer story was published. It's rumored that Marvel was courting Javier Bardem to play Galactus. So this is telling us that, unlike past Fantastic Four movies, this one's going to have a huge cosmic budget and scale. So now I'm wondering, how does all of this fit into the multiverse saga? Is this movie set in the MCU in the 1960s or is it set in another universe? Now, in the past, Colton Ogburn has theorized that in the MCU, Galactus will eat universes instead of planets.

So I want to hear from him and Tommy about this. And a little bit later, I'm going to tell you why I kind of hate this casting news. So Colton, Tommy, I want to get your guys thoughts on what you think about Silver Surfer being played by a woman. but first I want to find out, you know, just basically what this casting means for your thoughts on the movie. Colton, what do you think? What does this tell us about the actual plot of this film? As far as just the plot, and I do want to talk about that casting because I'm very excited about it. As far as plot goes, I'm not so sure that this means that Galactus is going to be the villain of the movie.

I'm kind of wondering if Silver Surfer herself is going to be the villain. I like the idea of, and you talked about earlier, Galactus being on a multiversal level where he is consuming universes. I love the original origin of Silver Surfer where he's like created by Galactus, but it would be really cool to see a scenario where Silver Surfer kind of bargains with Galactus not say, you know, take her universe and in exchange, she agrees to go with him and help like seek out other universes. for him to consume. And I think the way that that could play into the overall multiverse saga is perhaps she as a good individual, not some villainous individual, seeks out universes that are in the midst of an incursion. And she views that as, oh, they're going to die anyway. I'm going to go, you know, put these before my master. And the reason that she's working for Galactus is in exchange. He's not going to eat her universe. And I think that could be kind of the

moral quandary that we see her put in. And it turns her into, a villain for that Fantastic Four movie and then sets up Galactus for perhaps a more Avengers level threat, maybe even maybe he's the replacement for Kang you know if you're talking about somebody who can actually threaten the multiverse he might be your guy

there were the rumors like I said that Javier Bardem was going to be playing, they were courting him to play Galactus and you know what you're talking about is I think it's confirmed because like that Shalabal is like the deadline story said that she is the Silver Surfer that like it's that version from the comics

so it's not a being a pure energy. It's, I don't know, a scientist from Zen law and all that stuff that we just talked about. So, Tommy, what about you? What do you think this means for the plot of this movie? Well, first of all, I love Colton's theory that Silver Surfer is like the cat at the nursing home that nestles up to the person that's about to die. Like, she goes to planets that are near death. Yeah, I guess for me, the news was kind of surprising just in the sense that the,

The iteration from the comics, I think, is kind of a little more obscure than obviously the more famous Silver Surfer versions. I feel like, I agree with you, Ryan. I think Galactus is probably going to be a bigger threat, a bigger multiversal threat, possible replacement for King, big bad villain for an Avengers movie rather than just Fantastic Four. but I do think if that's the case this might necessitate the ushering in of Victor von Doom for the Fantastic Four movie at least as a looming threat for future sequels because I don't know that the Silver Surfer

alone can carry the movie as the villain and it's also like we've had kind of that in the MCU of like the villain that is just misguided or is doing something that they are kind of morally torn about or are on some level unsure of themselves if they should be doing it, but it's like a necessary evil to them. So I'm hoping that they swerve away from that.

And also, you know, bring in moleman for crying out loud, justice for moleman. Yeah, and I'm, you know me, like we've talked about Dr. Doom a lot on the channel and how I'm always like, look, just do him right, save him. Don't just cram him into every Fantastic Four movie like so much Magneto. But going back to what Colton just said, so you both kind of touched on this like it's a different universe. We did get promo art released today in honor of 4-4-day, Happy Birthday Mom, that shows the human torch soaring over a Manhattan skyline that's very art deco, very Jack Kirby, very like pulp-looking. So this is not the New York that we know, and that kind of confirms this is not taking place in the past MCU. So, Colton, to your theory, you're saying, and I love this, the Galactus is going around, the Harold is already picking universe.

that are going to die. So that means that the Fantastic Force universe is on its way out. How does that connect to, like, Deadpool and the Fox things that we've seen and are not allowed to have seen inside the void that we've seen in Deadpool stuff? Well, we know we're on the journey to Secret Wars. That's what the multiverse saga is. And they've been setting up through Loki, through multiverse of madness, the idea of incursions. So, yes, I think if you're going to bring in the Fantastic Four and phase it,

the final phase of the multiverse saga we've theorized before that it could be within a different universe I don't think you introduce another universe and it not be a universe that's going to be playing a pivotal role in the multiverse saga in terms of an incursion going to war with the main 616 universe I don't think you just randomly say oh here's the fantastic four and they happen to exist over here because multiverse I think there's a deeper, like, storyline to it. And I had the same idea, you know, with 838. I think we are going to see the return of universe 838. I'd like to see them kind of bring all these different universes that they're showing, bring them together,

because I think that is what they're setting up is an incursion with 616. So maybe, maybe the fantastic, and it gets messy with the John Krasinski thing and all of that. But I wouldn't be surprised if this fantastic four. or perhaps exists in maybe not 838. Maybe the universe we see at the end of... Yeah, maybe the universe at the end of the Marvels, which I've also theorized might be 838. I don't know, and quite frankly,

I don't think until recently Marvel really knew, so we'll just have to see. Yeah, and I think it's smart that they're keeping their options open, Tommy, that they're not necessarily saying this is this and this is that. Just in general, Tommy, do you think that they did the right thing here by introducing the Fantastic Four in another universe? Or do you think they should have, like, taken their time and built them up slowly in the MCU? I think they kind of had to.

I think in order for it to make sense, they have to exist in another universe because unless you're going to completely hard launch them in 20, what is it, 2027 in the MCU? Now I always forget. I know we're a few years ahead. It's like, or 2020, 29. But it's like you'd have to completely hard launch that these, these like brilliant scientists. Let me just a second, Tommy. I want to answer that for you.

I'm going to need a minute. So go ahead, finish your point, because I also get a little confused by this, okay? Go right ahead. Well, at least you have resources. I've got a book called Biggie, Biggie, Elephant and Piggy, which is my comic book is a children's book for my nephew. So they don't have the answers I'm looking for in there. Yeah, I love this idea personally. I think they had to introduce them in another universe, and I think it has to be a universe in peril

that's going to force their hand to either try and fight for its survival or fight for their own survival by leaving them. that universe. And if you want to establish them as players in the MCU for the future, which I'm sure they do, they may be people that have to, like, abandon their home and, like, live as outsiders in a different universe, ultimately. I don't know. But I think that it was kind of a rock and a hard place for Marvel to, because otherwise you have, like, the other option, because it looks like it's taking place, you know, like you said, Art Deco, kind of the very Jack Kirby artwork, the concept art we've seen so far. Otherwise, you have to be like they were also operating. during all of these crazy things that have happened

like the war in the battle in New York they were like ah guys let's sit this one out same problem with the Eternals where the hell were you guys here's the other thing the general audience especially fans

we know the Fantastic Four that we get it I don't want another Fantastic Four origin movie I think the best way to start the Fantastic Four is the way I think we're going to see them do it they are already a well-established team who is known by the people in that universe and really i think the only way to do that is have them be

from another universe or i mean i guess you could say they're from the 60s of the main 616 universe and then maybe they got lost in the negative zone or something no i i don't want them to do that i i hope it's just another reality and you know big shout out to our friend front of the channel patrick h willems years ago did a video that was how he would introduce the fantastic four like how he would do them in a movie and this is what it was It was not necessarily the 60s, but it was they are already celebrities. They're already, you know, out there doing their own thing. But here's an interesting thing about this.

It's almost as if Marvel wrote themselves into a giant corner with their interconnected universe, where anytime they want to introduce anything, the question would always come up. Thor, the Dark World, there's Dark Els, where are the Avengers, where, you know, where's Shield at? So by kind of taking advantage of the multiverse, they're freeing themselves up for different concepts, which, you know, props to DC, they already did with the Joker. So, Tommy, given that, if Marvel's kind of taken the handcuffs off and if they can set a movie anywhere in that world tree from the end of Loki, what kind of concept would you like to see them explore? Oh, I mean, there is the opportunity for a clean slate X-Men that we've talked about, I think from that, like the opportunity for a, like a fairly, or, you know, maybe a minimal crossover X-Men. Maybe a couple of familiar faces so people don't get too scared about waiting into the X-Men deep end.

But I would love to see Charles Xavier's School for the Gifted exist in a different universe and have the X-Men. Again, I think Spider-Man, the way they handled Tom Holland's Spider-Man was perfect. Robert Downey, Jr., Tony Stark knew there was this guy who was Spider-Man and, like, just, and recruited him. We all know who Spider-Man is, like Colton said. We all know who the Fantastic Four is. I don't even think they need to do anything with the X. I think the X-Men should do the same exact concept with the X-Men, set it in a different, you know, aesthetic and, you know,

maybe have it be kind of, I know they did Age of Apocalypse, in my opinion, fairly poorly in the 80s. So perhaps maybe do a mulligan on the 80s X-Men motif and give us those, like, already established, they've already found Charles Xavier, he's found them with Cerebro and he's recruited his X-Men and the team even if it is the first team of like

Gene Gray Angel Beast without the fur but still but do Beast with the proper giant hands and feet because that was like original East had huge hands and feet Nicholas Holt I'm sorry he's got normal size hands

and feet and I just wanted them to be bigger so even after transformation if I can say one thing I want big hands and feet beast yeah and you know you watch the show what if and they introduced like the 1602 universe and all these other different aspects and kind of it would be really fun to see some of those live action or oh my god it'd be great i would love to see um punisher done as like you know those 1970s gritty street movies like dirty harry or charles bronson just that just like do that

but the guy do it like a grind house film that would be the film that i would want to see and i'm not even a big Punisher fan. Colton, do you have a dream multiverse project you'd like to see from them? I would love to see them take a whack at Old Man Logan. I love what they did with Logan over at Fox, but if they were to do like an old man Logan in between Avengers movies, like before Secret Wars or something, I think that would be really cool. I've always wanted to see Wolverine versus Hulk. I think that's the time to do it. Maybe don't get into the incest. That might be a little much. That was weird, yeah.

That was Hulk and Sheaulk had a bunch of Hawk kids, right? Right. I wouldn't suggest quite going that route. But another thing is, as much as I'm enjoying the multiverse stuff, and I hope they have fun with it, I think this is also setting them up for a great way to recreate the MCU post-Secret War's and kind of do a in-universe reboot, like a Canon reboot, where they can offer new aesthetics and bring in all the,

least different characters into one cohesive universe. Yeah, like it, for old school comic fans, we might remember in 1986 at the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths. The whole point of that crossover was you have this massive infinite number of planets and then they all kind of combine into one. So in this new universe, there's two flashes and it's always been that way. In the same way, in this new universe, there have always been X-Men Fantastic Four and maybe Spider-Man.

We'll see if Marvel can finagle those rights back in the next few years. So I want to move on and talk about the actual casting. So Julia Garner, I saw her work in. Ozark and inventing Anna. She's great. She won like three Emmys in a row as Ruth. She's not just Ruth, though. I think a lot of fans are going to be reacting and being like Ruth. I said on Twitter that I kind of like, you know, she spent years being basically Marty's Harold on Ozark on doing his bidding, so why not Galactus? What do you guys think about Julia as a cast member here in joining the MCU? I think she's, I think you're right.

She's very much going to surprise people. She's a chameleon as an actor. I mean, she's definitely has a very specific look, but her ability to change her voice and change the way that her cadence and the way she presents herself and delivers lines, I mean, she, she's playing Madonna, I think, in an upcoming, like, in a Madonna bio thing. Wow, I didn't know that. That's cool. This is a, this is a, like, a woman who can really act in a bunch of different ways. It is, everyone is going to rush to, you know, associate her with, with Ruth or the kind

of, you know, over-the-top voice in inventing Anna. you're so basic. It's just the banks, the stupid banks. Don't worry about it. But, like, I think she's going to, I think, you know, as you mentioned earlier in the video, I believe, or after, edited either way you need to. This is just yet another casting of a great actor

that people are probably going to initially go, oh, I don't see it. And then it's going to be on the big screen and you're going to go, I can't imagine anyone else doing this. She, like, she can handle the weight of a character like this. I'm interested to see what her take on it is because I don't know that we have seen her play someone as stoic as a silver surfer, right?

Like, I don't know that we've seen that from her yet. Normally a role where you would associate somebody more like Kate Blanchett, you know, for example. Hold on more thoughts on this. Oh, man, I love her. She is my favorite part of Ozark, and that's saying a lot because that's a really talented cast. I don't know shit about fuck is one of the best lines ever read.

I want. I want that on a t-shirt. I want to hear her say it to Galactus. But no, really. She is so multifaceted. Like, I can totally see her playing like this, like Tommy said, this stoic, like, monotone, you know, non-earthly type presence. I can just see her pulling that off, like, from what I've seen of her, like, in various interviews and stuff in different roles she's had outside of Ruth. She's just shown that she has great range.

And, you know, I would have liked this casting. I know they're going with like an actual female version of Silver Surfer from the comics. I'd be fine, you know, female Silver Surfer, period, even if it was like based on the original Silver Surfer. I think the Silver Surfer, and I'm going to get in some trouble here, that's kind of a non-binary, you know, genderless type role. Yeah, it doesn't matter. He is just like, yeah, he is just a present. presence, the Silver Surfer, and I think she's going to pull that roll off very well. So apart from it being Julia Gardner, I know the internet's going to be up in arms,

because it's a woman that they're casting a Silver Surfer. And like you said, Colton, there is a woman silver surfer in this other universe from the Earth X comics. But regardless, this is not a character, like you said, who I think needs to be inherently male in the way that, I don't know, it'd be, if you were going to cast, say, Steve Rogers as a woman in the 1940s in the military, would have been a bit more of a stretch. Tommy, what do you think? Is there anything about this you think that says, I would have worked better as a guy,

or maybe Shalabal shouldn't be the Silver Surfer? Where do you think, like, fandom is going to land on this? I think it's going to predictably land exactly where we could probably all name exactly who's going to be outraged by it in a public setting. And we will be spending the next six to 12 months getting replies to anything fantastic for with certain people that we're going to have to mute and block that are going to say, silver surfer has to be a guy and i think as you know colton and and you kind of already put well no no no they don't

they absolutely do not need to be a guy that has nothing to do with the the presence and and motivation of the character uh they're motivated by trying to save the the people they love right like that's the whole point of the silver surfer is they're basically making a devil's bargain to save the save their loved ones from being devoured by Galactus. And here's the thing. People are acting as if there is some agenda to, you know, not cast as many white males or something. Here's the thing.

I guess if you want to call it an agenda, but it's really that they are doing away with an agenda that once existed, both in comics and, and in film where most characters were primarily white males. So really, if you're anti-agenda, you should be in favor of what they're doing because they're kind of stripping that outdated agenda away. They're flipping it on its head.

And I will say this, as an actual auditioning actor, I have had no drop-off in auditions over the last five years when this wave of woken escape. I have the same amount of auditions I got five years ago. still get auditions for great projects. I auditioned for a DC thing the other day. It's like it happened like there is no erasure of white men on on film and TV. It's a myth. It's something that is made up to stoke fear and people that don't do any sort of due diligence to figure out if that's true or not. It's just something that is used as a scare tactic to be like

Disney is woke, you know, whatever, Marvel is woke. And it's stupid. And I can I can show you receipts. That South Park episode, right? The one that was like put a chick in at Maker Gay. I wish that had been funny because I do think there was something too, there's a point there they were trying to make that studios are doing this thing where they will do diversity casting and say, there, we've done our job without actually maybe paying due diligence to, no, no, no, look, this doesn't make up for all of the wrongs you've been doing. I'm so glad they're looking at a broader spectrum of actors for all of these different rules we're seeing cast. Like, that's fantastic. Well, I think it's a good point to be made.

like it's a hard one to make because I do think like like you said the the thesis of that South Park episode was did have a point of like do it like patting yourself on the back for simply changing the thing without actually putting any thought into why you're changing it is lazy it's like performative activism or what do they call whackivism or whatever and it's like yeah like you know figure out the places where it makes sense to like switch around a gender or switch or diversify the casting and like, you know, and then ultimately, on the other side, come at it with good faith and trust them.

Trust them is absolutely right. But it's hard to say that because people will only take one part of that sentence. The whole sentence is, you know, do your due diligence and make, you know, make creative choices with that, but also trust them. And that will never be taken as one solid thought. Well, Colts and Tommy, thank both of you for joining me. Like I said earlier, there is something pretty major I don't like about this casting news. and I'm going to tell you guys about right now.

Thanks for joining us. So guys, a lot of fans are going to be up in arms because the Silver Surfer has been gender swapped to be a woman. And to be honest, I don't care about that one bit. I think it's awesome that they just pick the best actor for the role. Julia Gardner is a great actor, and I think she'll knock this one out of the park. What I don't like is that she'll be playing Shalabal.

Right, but you're just saying... No, no, hear me out. Jack Kirby's original conceit for the surfer was that he was a being of pure cosmic energy the Galactus gave a consciousness to. So then, when the surfer meets the people of Earth, they teach him empathy and love. the surfer kind of a fallen angel who was learning about the experience of mortal life after his god cast him out of the heavens. Like all of Kirby's work, it was this grand cosmic

mythological story but told in very human terms. Years later, Stan Lee gave the surfer a boring and unoriginal backstory where he's yet another scientist. I always hated that addition. Now, I know it's too late for the comics direct on this, but I was really holding out hope that the MCU would stay true to the much better superior version that Jack Kirby intended. The silver surfer should be a blank slate, a cosmic killing machine who learns to protect all life instead of taking life. So that's my big takeaway from the news. I don't mind that it's a woman.

I do mind that they didn't use the original origin from 1964. And guys, while I'm talking about the Surfer Comics, I do want to recommend the Brilliant Silver Surfer series by Dan Slot and Mike Allred. It is a must read. I want to thank Colton and Tommy for joining us. You can find their social links below. So guys, let me know what you think about all this down. The comments are at me, Tommy, or Colton on Twitter.

And if it's your first time here, please subscribe and smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie. Thank you.