ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - Spider-Man and Punisher's Team-Up Movie, Explained

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

According to THR, John Bernthal's Punisher will be appearing in Spider-Man: Brand New Day, the fourth installment of the Tom Holland series. We break down the latest MCU crossover, which also includes Sadie Sink and the Hulk. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. You know what I think you're a half measure. You think you're right? It makes you dangerous. Hey, welcome back to Screen Crush. I'm Ryan Airy, and there are some huge new Spider-Man news that we have to talk about.

According to the Hollywood reporter, John Bernthal's The Punisher has been cast in Spider-Man Brand New Day. Guys, I'm not going to lie. this movie bedevils me and I am confused because another rumor from Daniel RPK says that the Hulk is going to be in this movie. So I want to talk about everything we know about this picture so we can work out what the hell the story is and ask ourselves, is this just going to be another big giant mess? Now a little later I'm going to talk to my friends Colton and Tommy, but first here is everything that we know so far. And before we get started, remember we are having a huge sale at our

merch store 20% off. And if you become a member, you can get free stuff. Links for some of our favorite merch that we've designed for you guys are below. Now, as a lot of you already know, back in the 90s, Marvel was bankrupt, and so they sold the film rights to Spider-Man and the Punisher to Sony and Lionsgate, respectively. Now, Punisher had already had a rocky movie career. There was like the 80s movie with Dol Flandron where they didn't even give him the skull on his chest. Then Lionsgate made two Punisher movies that, you know, they're decent. They have their fans to star Tom Jane and Ray Stevenson. But the character finally broke through in live action when he was an antagonist in Daredevil Season 2. Like, John Bernthal was just perfect as Frank Castle. He channeled Frank's self-hatred and his endless anger toward criminals.

I think that this world, it needs men that are willing to make the hard call. And he forced Matt Murdoch into real moral quandaries. This was a layered nuanced character who got his own spinoff series, which ran for two seasons until Marvel canceled all of their Netflix shows. Rather do that. So they wouldn't compete with their original programming on Disney Plus. But slowly, Marvel brought back that Netflix universe. First, Matt Murdoch and No Way Home and Shehawk,

and then again in Daredevil Born Again, where they returned the Punisher and Bullseye. In fact, season one ended on a Punisher mid-credits cliffhanger that has promised to be resolved in the Punisher Disney Plus special coming out this fall. There are even rumors that Marvel likes the special so much, they may release it as a feature film, which frankly is a great idea. Now, over at Sony, Spider-Man has had a really strange trajectory. Of course, we all know and mostly love the Sam Ramey trilogy, which was then rebooted with the Andrew Garfield franchise, which was crushed undershouldering the burden of Sony's plans for

various spider-adjacent spin-off films. And then, of course, we rejoiced as Tom Holland's Spider-Man entered the Marvel Cinematic Universe. But remember, Marvel didn't just get the rights back for Spider-Man. They made a very specific deal. Spider-Man could appear in a certain number of Avengers films, and a Marvel character would then appear in Spider-Man films. And Spider-Man No Way Home also showed us how fun the Multiverse saga could be. It brought together the three Spider franchises and their villains. And that movie ended with the perfect way for Peter Parker to leave the MCU. No one remembered his secret identity and he stopped using Stark super suits. So Sony could feasibly continue the franchise without any connection to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. But then

they worked out a new deal with Marvel to share Spider-Man for more films. And this is where it gets complicated. Ryan, guess what? It's me. I mean you. I'm from the future. Hi! We don't have much time. There's something I have to tell you. This store, look, it's not what you think it is. Well, hold on, wait, wait, wait. What are you wearing? Oh, you like it? It's Fabletics. They're the sponsor of this video. fantastic. Oh, what is that? Oh, well, I can actually tell you and everybody else, do you mind? Oh, not at all. Come on over. Hi-Fi. Guys, I hate shopping for clothes. There's too many options. Nothing ever fits right, especially in the summer when it seems like everything is just uncomfortable.

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today and get 80% off the entire site. It's an insane deal. You're not going to want to miss. Now, back to what I was saying. Now, like I said, the live action Spider-Man movies were getting complicated. Sony was determined to have its own Spider-Man adjacent universe with Spider-Man characters appearing without Spider-Man in their films. And this is what's called the STD-W-S-M-I-T-U. That's the something to do with Spider-Man, I think, Cinematic Universe. So while the live-action Spider-Man movies were starting to flounder, Sony animation was blowing our minds away with two Spider-Verse movies that, frankly, have renewed Hollywood's interest in 2D animation. Rumor has it that the success of No Way Home in Spider-Verse made Sony decide they wanted to be all in on the multiverse. They

wanted Toby and Andrew to return for another multi-crossover movie. But then, according to Leaker Daniel RPK, there was a push-pool between Marvel and Sony. Marvel wanted a street-level Spider-Man story that focused on like classic Spider-Man stories based in New York. Maybe we can hope this would feature Daredevil in the Kingpin. After all, in Daredevil Born Again, Wilson Fisk just became mayor of New York and outlawed all vigilantes. So, you know, how's that going to affect Spider-Man? The fans really want to know. We don't need a gun-toting vigilante who wears a skull on his chest or a man who dresses in a spider outfit. Now, we don't know if this inter-studio conflict was real, or even if it was much of a conflict, or just like normal, hashing-out-story-conflict.

But most importantly, we don't know who won. This could be a street-level movie or a sprawling multiversal movie. We just don't know. That's a question. That's a question! But RPK also leaked that any Marvel film or show set after Avengers Doomsday would take place on Battleworld. Now this is the patchword planet that Dr. Doom creates in the comics that is composed of characters from different universes. Originally, brand new day was set to release After Doomsday.

July 26. But now, Avengers Doomsday has shifted from a May to December 26 release, so as of right now, Spider-Man Brand New Day is going to release before Avengers Doomsday, which would make us think that it's not going to be set on Battleworld and would be a more grounded film set in the MCU. And we also know the director, Destin Daniel Cretton, who previously did Shang-Chi, and we also know the title, Spider-Man Brand New Day, which is based on a Spider-Man storyline after Mephisto takes away Peter's marriage to Mary Jane, and they did kind of a soft reboot of his story in the comics, which is very similar to where he is now in the MCU, where MJ doesn't remember him. And there's also rumors that Sadie Sink from Stranger Things

has been cast in the film. And some people suspect she's playing May Parker, aka Spider-Girl girl, who could be the daughter of Mary Jane and Toby McGuire Spider-Man. But then, we got this bonkers rumor that the Hulk is also in this movie. After all, according to Sony's contract, they get to use an Avengers, so apparently they decided to go with the Hulk. But to talk about this, I want to hear from two of my favorite people in the world. We have Colton Ogburn, the guy who's trapped in our tiny television, but doesn't know it so please don't tell him. And we have Tommy Beck told the guy who is always on break. First of all, before we get into like theorizing how the Punisher and the Hulk and

Sadie Sink and all of this stuff can fit into this movie, I just kind of want your basic opinions on this. Tommy, what are your thoughts on John Bernthal's Punisher finally getting to meet wide-eyed, do-eyed, innocent Tom Holland Spider-Man? Oh, we have been waiting. for this level of grit to appear in the Spider-Man franchise. Dirty Haggered John Barrenthal. I don't even care if he plays Frank Castle.

Just show up, drinking a coffee. Black, of course, waving some guns around, scaring Peter Parker. I'm excited for it, honestly. You know, we talked about how there are different iterations that have been pitched for the Spider-Man film. As recently, it seemed to be more multiversal again.

But originally I had been, I think, pitched like a street-level, feel to it, which the Punisher certainly will bring that feel to it. So I'm excited. I'm excited for the shoot-em-up elements of Frank Castle in the Spider-Man world. Yeah, you're the first time in Daredevil season two,

the Punisher hallway fight where he goes through and kills him, the stabs again, he's covered in blood at the end. I thought, that's the same universe where Peter Parker says, turn off instant kill. One of my favorite things about the MCU is that not that we have those corners, but that you

get to see those corners interact. Colta, what about you? What are your thoughts on this? Oh, I'm super excited. I'm a huge fan of Bernthal's Punisher. I love the first two seasons of his show that they did on Netflix. I think it's criminal that we haven't seen another season of that. I'm hoping that we'll get another season since they've brought him back like with Daredevil and now they're having him at Spider-Man. So I'm super excited.

I also want to say that I hope with him being in a movie, maybe this is like, a good sign that we'll get a Punisher movie instead of that special presentation. Like, do it, you know, for under 50 million, throw it in theaters. I think that would be fun. I mean, the latest rumor is that they might, they're probably, they apparently are pretty happy with that special and they might throw it in theaters, which would be awesome. I just hope, yeah. I mean, frankly, it'll show that, like, not everything they do.

Frankly. Ah, I hate you. I hate you, I hate you, but honestly, it shows that not everything they do has to come with this, like, enormous price tag. Sometimes even Marvel can put out more of a low-budget movie. I'm excited to, like, you think about Peter Parker, right, and everything he's seen. And this is a guy who's like, homecoming date's dad threatened to kill him. This is a guy who has been to space, who has seen like a big multiversal battle.

Who, like, frankly, has participated in the murder of aliens when he told Karen 2 activate Instant Kill. I'm going to see that guy confronted with the Punisher, like, you know, stab him covering of blood and being, like, scared. You know what I mean? Or at least, at the very least, floored by that level of violence because Peter Parker's our problem. in the movie. We should all be floored by that level of violence. It's a lot of fun, man. I also just want to hear Punisher called Spider-Man Kid. I'm very excited. Oh, God, me too. Me too. There was also, you know, like, Punisher's first appearance was in the Spider-Man comics. He was hired by the Jackal to kill Spider-Man. So I doubt if he, like,

thinks that this version of Peter Parker is a criminal, but we could see something in this movie where Peter maybe is, you know, when he's already been framed for murder, maybe Punisher believes that he did kill Mysterio. I don't know why he would care, but maybe he buys it to J. Jonah Jameson's crap and thinks all that. More than likely, though, what we've been pushing for for a long time,

we're probably not going to get, is like that this movie would be the culmination of Daredevil and Kingpin be the villain, stuff like that. Vincent Donofrio threw some cold water on that and said, like, look, because of like contractual things and there's no way that can happen.

But then John Bernthal's Punisher comes in. So that kind of gives me hope that we might see a little more of like a directed crossover called. Spider-Man is owned by Sony, but it's in the MCU. If they can make that happen, then I think that they can make the Kingpin thing happen. I mean, I don't know who these, yeah, I don't know who these rights are tangled up with, like, that they can't put it in theaters. I would assume, I guess, whoever did that original Daredevil film, but I think that was 20th Century Fox, right?

Which they now own. So I'm not sure what the legal situation is there, but something tells me that they can probably get past it. I think the right dollar amount they could get Kingpin put in the movies, because whoever this other studio or whatever is, what are they going to do with Kingpin? They can't do anything. So they might as well just take the money and make the movie. Yeah, tell me what do you think?

I think you guys are both missing the larger opportunity here, which is who did the theme song for Spider-Man one, Toby McGuire, Nickelback? Who did the theme song for Daredevil One, Evanescence? Is this time for a Nickelback Evanescence It's mega jam to bring a theme song for a movie so powerful that we maybe never have another superhero movie again. Hey, I'm all for it.

Like, we used to be, right, when I was a youngling, movies always had the big scene. Batman forever had a song that had nothing to do with Batman or forever as the main sound. You're like ever since Prince Batman, you know? But there was also this weird scene in Superman where Lois narrates a poem that was supposed to be a song on the soundtrack. So there's a history of this. And we had it with the Avengers. We obviously had it with Black Panther and Wakanda Forever. Damn it, I'm ready.

I'm ready to go old school with these soundtracks. Marvel needs all the money they can get right now anyway. We better get Chris Dottry's Superman song in the new James Guns Superman movie. I'm going to be pissed. Yes. Or Kryptonite. Guys remember Kryptonite? I can't believe Zach Snyder and have.

use that. That seems like the perfect... No kidding. No kidding. James Gunn said about Superman though, there's no needle drops. It's the first movie he's ever done. It's like water wall-to-all orchestral. Which is interesting because in I'm going to nerd die for a second. In Guardians whenever there's music playing,

it's more how the characters want to feel, whereas the orchestra expresses how they actually feel. Typically. Except for like Yondo's funeral. I don't know. Maybe I'm thinking of Shrek. I think I'm, maybe that was a... Yeah, I am. I'm thinking of Shrek. Shrek is like that. Exactly the same. So, Punisher, Colton knows this is what it's always like to have a conversation with me.

And the next thing, you know what, our Winter Soldier breakout, I've gone on for five minutes about, like, how much magnetic tape storage exists in that universe. Okay, this is fun. We're talking about, okay, maybe we were grounded in street level. It doesn't mean that it is, though. You know, earlier I talked about how this whole thing can happen where it's actually set in battleworld, et cetera, because it takes place after Doomsday. I'm going to pull back on that because I think that because it's two different studios,

I don't think Sony ever intended to set this movie on Battleworld. If Avengers Doomsday would have come out in May and ended with the creation of Battleworld, which we don't know for sure that it will, and then Spider-Man came out, I think it would be treated more like Ant Man and the Wasp, where when that movie starts, we just understand it's before the snap, right? And then at the end of that movie, the shit goes down with Doomsday to connect to that. And now they'll just have to hastily add in a post-credit scene that sets up a Vinder's Doomsday or something like that. Or Madam Web 2 or whatever the fuck they're going to do.

But if that's the case, we still could do multiverse in it, but do you guys think there's too much going on here? Especially if Sadie Sink is playing May Day Parker from another universe. Because we haven't even gotten to the big green rage monster in the room yet. I personally hope that they don't go multiverse. and I'm the guy who's been saying, you know, when everybody was saying they want the street-level Spider-Man 4, and there were rumors that they were going to go the big multiverse route, bring Toby back, bring Andrew back.

I was saying, hey, you know, it's the multiverse saga. We're still leading up to Secret Wars. Just do it. We've got all the time in the world to do that street-level Spider-Man story. But if they are going to bring in Bernthal, if brand-new day, I believe, comes out, like, pretty soon after Daredevil Season 2, I don't want them intermingling that, and then trying to bring in the multiverse.

I think there comes a point where it gets too convoluted, and Spider-Man movies especially have this big problem where they bring in way too many characters. Oh, yeah. I want Spider-Man to have his story. I am all for Daredevil and Punisher being there as, like, these supporting characters. I think it would be interesting to see them as...

I am kind of tired of, you know, Iron Man Jr. having all these mentors, but he is kind of pivoting to a new... Well, that's Peter Parker in the comics, too, yeah. Yeah. He is pivoting. to a new corner of the MCU, which No Way Home set up perfectly. So having Punisher and Daredevil there to kind of help usher him into this new realm, I think would be interesting because really Spider-Man could lead this corner.

We've talked before, you know, about Sony and Marvel Studios deal and how they're going to go forward to Spider-Man. I could see a scenario where they're like, hey, let's work together more closely and have Spider-Man kind of lead this corner of the MCU with Punisher, with Daredevil. So I'm hoping that's what they do. I don't want too much multiverse. They need to pick a lane and stay in it. There's also Kristen Ritter apparently was confirmed to be in Daredevil season two. I haven't heard about Mike Coulter or Fen Jones yet.

And there's also rumors that Marvel's developing a new season of Jessica Jones. So if that's the case, if they are kind of going, hey, you know, we saw a lot of success with Born Again. I think it's definitely they're shooting season two. I think it's even been renewed for season three, so they're setting up a multi-plan arc. Maybe they will negotiate with Sony to get those Spider-Man rights. Or maybe there's even more going on behind the scenes where Sony is kind of seen that they're cash cows of one-note pony,

a one-trick pony. They're not going to be able to spend this off into other universes, Madam Webb, et cetera, all these other failures. Maybe they'll actually lease the rights back to Spider-Man. But let's get to Hulk, right? The big rumor, literally big rumor, was, and we did a video on this, that Hulk was going to appear in a brand-new day.

Now, I expected a Marvel MCU character to appear. It's part of, of course, they're going to want to do that. I don't think that any of these characters in these movies overshadowed Peter. I think they were good supporting characters who set up the plot. I was tired of everything in the MCU revolving around Tony Stark, but nevertheless, they were Peter's movies he was front and center. Bringing the Hulk into this movie after we just saw the same thing in Brave New World really seemed incongruous with what the story they were telling, right?

And I have no problem with Peter actually meeting the Hulk, because they never met before it sounds like fun but it's hard for me to mesh that with the punisher what you guys have any thoughts on that yeah it feels very much like all of the ingredients are laid out on the table and not combined yet so it's very hard to imagine them becoming this like delicious soup you have i could i couldn't agree more it's it sounds kind of convoluted to have frank castle and the hulk and spider-man all who pulls focus in that situation obviously a giant green monster on screen is always going to kind of command your attention. I do think I wonder if if you have him, if you have Bruce Banner in the film, you know, I know that, I know that sounds so

silly, but Peter being this kid that's really into science, Bruce Banner being this brilliant scientist, there's a lot of fun to be had there. And then the juxtaposition of that with this like, I solve all my problems with guns and violence, Frank Castle, I think is very fun. Like a man, a man whose only solution is violence versus a man who's desperately trying to suppress violence battling for this kind of soul of a young man who has

given up his entire identity literally to save his friends and is kind of lost right now I think is very intriguing but we also don't know that the Hulk will be Professor Hulk or what kind of Hulk we're kind of assuming rage monster Hulk but we don't know how he'll appear I don't think She Hawk really

knew what to do with them. I mean, in the last episode at least, but I don't want to get that. We'll talk about Shehawk all day. Colton, go ahead. What are you going to say? A movie was Spider-Man, the Punisher, and the Hulk. I mean, 2004 me throwing Ghost Rider, I would have been losing my shit. Like, that sounds great. The problem is, is it's not a Marvel Ultimate Alliance movie. It's a Spider-Man movie. So I do want that Peter-centric story. To your point about Brave New World, I'm not interested in the Hulk being the villain of this movie if that's what they're pivoting toward. I've seen a lot of people theorizing that it'll be, and I think maybe even part of the reports have been that, you know, Spider-Man and Punisher are going up against the Hulk.

I don't like that. We just got it in Brave New World. Maybe if we hadn't just got it in Brave New World, I'd be more open to it. But it just seems like they have like a bucket full of action figures and they dump them on the floor and they're ready to play with them. And to an extent, yes, that's fun, but rain it in just a hair, I think. I think they risk going just a smidge too far with it. Yeah, and with Hulk, too, is the villain, like you said. But my problem there is Spider-Man, outside of Batman,

Spider-Man has the richest rose gallery in comics. And a lot of these guys have never even been in a movie. I mean, I'm dying to see Craven on screen for the first time, for example. We can see, I guess we kind of saw the lizard redone and No Way Home. but there's all kinds of Spider-Man villains they could tap into. Go ahead. And if you want to make the Hulk a villain, Hulk could be, Hulk is an Avengers villain. That is a whole, like, phase villain, like have them ship him off into space. Yes, Spider-Man and Punisher are fucked.

And sorry, you've got to bleat me there, editors, but going up against the Hulk. We're outside the first 30 seconds, let it fly. Okay, so there have been storylines in the comics, of course, for Spider-Man, fought the Hulk. Going back to Amazing Spider-Man issue three, when Spider-Man fought Dr. Octopus and Dr. Octopus kicked his ass and he quit being Spider-Man until randomly Johnny Storm gave a talk and an assembly at his high school, and that inspired him to go fight Dr. Octopus. This happens over and over. There was one episode, one issue where Spider-Man fought Fire Lord, who was the Herald of Galactus and beat him. I love seeing Peter Parker come up against his limit. So the idea of the Hulk being let loose, right, of like Professor Hulk, the banner of the barrier breaks down.

now, whatever. He'll make that the opening act. And he gets his ass kicked, right? And if they're going to bring in the venom symbiate and not do it in Secret Wars, that's a great way to do it because he doesn't have that stark gear. He doesn't have Edith. He needs some kind of help. I think that would be a fun way to do it too. As long as Sony isn't just going, well, let's see, who's the biggest character that we could potentially have access to, who has time on their contract. I'm sure they'd love to get Chris Hemsworth, that he's limiting the amount of movies that he makes. Hopefully, that's all correct. I mean, I still would prefer

Daredevil and Kingpin and Black Cat. Sadie Sink could be playing Black Cat, by the way. That'd be pretty cool. Yeah, and when you mentioned Johnny Storm, that makes me think about that comic where, you know, you would see just the Human Torch fly by for a panel. It's a Spider-Man comic, but you see Human Torch Fly By. It's kind of swaying me back over to the up.

Yeah, I think with what Marvel has coming post-Secret Wars, with them all finally just being in one cohesive universe, and maybe we're getting ready for a time where we don't have so many like solo movies where we're kind of wondering well where are the other Avengers like maybe they are just going to really go into that cross-pollination of like yeah spider-man movie has the Hulk and the Punisher in it Hulk movie has you know whoever and whoever like maybe that's going to work out schedule wise they will yeah tom yeah but that that's been kind of the the Hulk issue

the Hulk has always kind of been the herald of that specific specific Marvel concept or problem is like he doesn't he had his standalone movie with a different actor playing Hulk pre-Avangers with like he's never had a solo film so he only can kind of exist as a Hulk being the villain in Brave New World Hulk showing up in Avengers and all these other movies showing up in She Hulk it's there is no there's no like home base for Bruce Banner it's always just as a companion piece into these projects therefore it becomes more distracting I think because you don't really know like what in the imaginary like what are these people doing when the cameras aren't rolling like where are these characters when we're not seeing them

what's happening on like you know there's there's so much more with the Hulk because we he only pops in on these other properties i think they yeah well he's also on his island we kind of established he's got that island the tiny got from i will say going back to punisher a little bit these are two Hulk and Punisher are two characters who suffer from rage so i mean there is something cool there, I think. There's a cool story point there. Even, you know, if they're teaming up together to stop him, or like I said, if he's just a smaller part, bit part cameo. One thing that I will, I'll leave you guys with this. One thing that occurs to me about this movie is a lot of Marvel stuff, especially within Disney, was, okay, well, we got to set up the next

thing, so keep moving. We don't have a script yet. You got to keep, you got to go. We'll finish the script later. We'll finish the script after. We'll do reshoots. With the Spider-Man movie, they've taken a long break. I mean, it's the longest break they've ever taken. Even counting for COVID, right? And they weren't, Tom Holland wasn't going to sign on for more movies, unless it was right, unless he was happy with it. So that encourages me. I don't think it's going to be on Battleworld. I don't think they're going to be forced to do, you know, because it's a separate studio. I think that whatever they're going to do, it's going to be nice, separate, collected. And Dustin Daniel Creighton, you know, did a great job, or Dustin Daniel

Creighton did a great job on Sean Chee. So that's really encouraging. But I want to leave it there. Tommy, Colton, I want to thank you guys for joining me. It's been a lot of fun. And of course, you can find their social links below. What, Tommy? I got to get back to work. Sorry, guys. Okay, great. So we want to know what you guys think about

all this down in the comments or you can find us on Twitter, Blue Sky Threads, or on our free-to-join Discord server. And if it is your first time here, please subscribe, smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie. Thank you.