ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - STAR WARS Announcements - Can the New Movies Fix the Franchise?

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

ScreenCrush Rewind tackles all the movie and TV hot topics, offering reviews and analysis of Marvel, Star Wars, and everything you care about right now. Hosted by Ryan Arey, and featuring a panel of industry professionals. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, welcome to Screencrush Rewind. I'm Ryan Erie. So there were some really unexpected announcements at Star Wars Celebration this year. We got a few trailers for Disney Plus shows, most of which we're not allowed to watch yet, but we also got confirmation of real, actual Star Wars movies. Yeah, we've heard this before. Yeah, I know. Lucasfilm has given us a lot of false starts, which I'm going to talk about in a second. But it seems like they have finally regrouped and have a plan for the future and the past of this galaxy. I am cautiously optimistic because it looks like Lucasfilm is finally

correcting their early mistakes. Because let's face it, the studio has made an enormous amount of errors in the past 10 years. And it really had squandered what was the most anticipated Star Wars trilogy of all time. Somehow Palpatine returned. In a little bit, I'm going to talk to a couple of Star Wars experts, Colton Ogborn and Dodd Sites about this. But first, I want to tell you why I'm so excited and why you should be excited about these announcements. But let's look back at how we got here, so we know exactly how Lucasfilm has been doing us wrong. So when Disney bought Lucasfilm in 2012, the studio was not currently ramped up to make a lot of Star Wars. content. There were lots of unused scripts for a show called Star Wars Underworld. There were

Clone Wars episodes being created, and like there was the usual comics and expanded universe material. And Lucas Film had also completed several episodes of what appears to be a pretty terrible animated show called Detours. My lords! Hey look, it's my foot. Lucas had just started to develop a story for episode seven with screenwriter Michael Arm, who wrote Little Miss Sunshine and Toy Story 3. And you can find many accounts of what that story would have been online. Now, when Lucas sold his company, he thought that Disney would continue to make the trilogy that he had outlined, but instead, they decided to go another way. So the work of Arndt was dismissed, and Lucasfilm essentially outsourced the movie to Bad Robot, J.J. Abrams's production company.

Disney was very bullish about this franchise, saying they planned to make a Star Wars movie every year alternating between saga films and spinoff films. But, and this is key, this new trilogy was not planned out. J.J. Abrams loves to talk about mystery box storytelling, where the mystery of something is the appeal of the story. Now, normally, Star Wars movies had three years between installments. Plenty of time to write a script, do pre-vis, make a movie, do post-production. But this new trilogy only had two years between projects. So Ryan Johnson was given carte blanche to continue the story of episode 7 and Jurassic World's Colin Chavaro was able to do whatever he wanted with episode 9 picking up from where Ryan Johnson left off. And then the spinoff films had

massive production problems. Rogue One's final act was completely re-edited with extensive reshoots, with some accounts saying that Tony Gilroy should have been credited as co-director with Gareth Edwards. Solo had completed more than half of its principal photography when director's Phil Lord and Chris Miller left the project for creative differences. You're fired! Leaving Ron Howard to reshoot large sections of the movie and even recasting the villain from Michael K. Williams to Paul Bettney.

Yes, we almost had Omar in Star Wars. A man got to have a cold. And then other spinoff movies like Josh Tranks' Boba Fett film were killed in development. Solo was the first Star Wars movie to arrive to roars of apathy, so Lucasfilm decided that, oh, the original trilogy characters shouldn't be recast. Well, that's silly. We just don't care about a young hot solo movie. It didn't really matter who's playing them. Exactly.

Lucasfilm took the wrong lesson from Solo's failure. So now we have to squint at deep fake Luke and pretend it's Mark Hamill. I mean, look, VFX artists are great. They're trying. But guys, this is not a human being. And The Last Jedi was one of the best made Star Wars films ever, but it was maybe too brave where The Force Awakens was too timid. And The Last Jedi spurned on a massive, very vocal backlash from a minority of fans.

Hey, what do you mean a minority of fans? We are Legion. Aren't we guys? Hate Last Jedi down in the comments. The movie made $1.3 billion. A lot of people loved it. Now, it was weird watching Luke Skywalker milk a sea cow, but a lot of people like the movie.

But Lucasfilm knows that Star Wars should be as popular as possible for as many people as possible, so they overcorrected for that Last Jedi backlash. And there were some other very sad behind the scenes problems. The Death of Carrie Fisher made Colin Trevaro's episode 9 script incredibly difficult to film. So, he was replaced by J.J. Abrams and Chris Terrio, the writer of Batman vs. Superman. Kill Martha.

You know what happens next. Somehow Palpatine returned. They fly now? They fly now. Because you're a Palpatine. Will you? Right! Right!

Where the fucking bed? So Disney's plan for Star Wars films crash and burned. Luckily, their little side experiment, the Mandalorian, was a massive success. And it arrived just before the pandemic when people started to exclusively consume Star Wars at home. And then we started getting all these announcements about new movies. Ryan Johnson was getting a trilogy. Dan and Dave from Game of Thrones were getting a trilogy. Kevin Feigey, Tycho and Titi, they were all making movies. Patty Jenkins was getting a Rogue Squadron movie and they even showed a teaser for it where she went to a fighter jet.

It seemed like Lucasfilm was just hiring whatever director had just had a hit and then just kind of counting on them to do their thing. So they were essentially copying the success of other studios. Whereas Marvel Studios is great at finding indie talent like John Watts or Tycho Wattee, Lucasfilm is always playing catch-up. Now, I should say that it's normal for a studio to start projects that don't work out. It's part of the process, but it's not normal to announce the projects at an early stage in such a public way. It seemed like Lucasfilm is trying to keep up appearances while doing damage control behind the scenes, and too much content went to Disney Plus. Obi-1 would have worked better as a movie, and so would the book of Bova-Feth. And so much of what

they are producing is tied to the original trilogy instead of giving us something new. But now that has changed. We are going in new directions. Original trilogy timeline stories like Bad Batch and Andor are entering their final seasons. One of the films that was announced is a film by Dave Filoni that's going to be the culmination of the story they're telling in the Disney Plus shows. It's kind of like they're going to assemble a Star Wars Avengers movie, which actually we made a video about. So Lucas film has found this span of time between Return of the Jedi and the Force Awakens where they can tell creators, hey, this is your playground. Tell your stories. Very similar to how comic book creators can tell this story set between the original trilogy movies.

But best of all, we are going to the past and the future. The sequel trilogy was enormously disappointing and fellowed to deliver on the promises of that story. But now we're going to go 15 years in the future and see Ray setting up a new Jedi order. Daisy Ridley is one of the most talented actors to ever perform in a Star Wars. The whole sequel trilogy cast never got the movie they deserved. And now, we don't know what's going to happen. Is the galaxy overrun with pirates or with darkness or new Sith? Lord's. What happens in an era that is truly post-Palpatine? What kind of Jedi order can she possibly

forge out of the chaos after the destruction of two galactic governments? But most of all, I'm excited for the James Mangold movie Dawn of the Jedi, set 20,000 years in the past at the formation of the Jedi order, the first humans to use the force, to build lightsabers, to be the light and the darkness of the galaxy, the first Jedi to abuse the force and then call themselves the Sith, a galaxy that is just discovering hyperspace that is filled with interstellar conflicts. Yes! Yes! Yes! James Mangold is a hit factory. The man is on an incredible hot streak, and now the guy who gave us this,

Don't be what they made you. It's going to bring us into a whole new era of Star Wars. I could not be more excited. But that's just my thought on the upcoming Star Wars movies. I'm joined here by two of my favorite people. We've got Colton Ogburn and Dodson's Sight. So Colton, I want to start with you. So what were your thoughts?

thoughts on the Star Wars Celebration announcements, the movies, and what are you most excited for? Are we getting back on track here? What's up? I'd say the key thing I was most surprised by and that I'm now excited about is that Daisy Ridley is coming back as Ray. Had you asked me yesterday, oh, were they going to announce anything new with like sequel trilogy stuff? I said, no, it's too toxic. You know, there's too much of a chunk of the fan base that, you know, they're just a toxic portion. But then even the non-toxic portion, you know, weren't pleased with the sequel trilogy. So I figured we'd either be seeing High Republic stuff or had jumped forward a thousand years before we'd get our next, like, Star Wars

movie. I really wasn't even expecting any movie announcements, to be honest with you. I thought maybe they'd stick with Disney Plus. Maybe we'd get a movie like Tycho Watiti's movie or something like that. I know they canceled Feige's movie, right? And there was one other that I know is now off the books. but the Daisy Ridley thing is the thing I'm most excited for. I loved Force Awakens. That is one of my top Star Wars movies. Did not like Last Jedi. Really did not like Rise of Skywalker.

And while I could understand the point of view from a certain point of view, if like people saying we need to run from that, we need to abandon everything sequel trilogy, I understand that. But I think there's enough good there. I think there's enough good in the sequel trilogy. they are episode 7, 8, and 9. And, you know, once upon a time, the prequels were hated. I think in the future, I think the sequel trilogy will maybe be looked at with maybe a little bit better,

maybe just a smidge better than it is now. So I think it's important not to just abandon it, pretend like it didn't happen. It's there. It's canon. So I'm glad they're doing it. I'm curious, you mentioned Ryan, when we were talking, maybe it'll be 10, 11 and 12. I don't know. it kind of sounds like it with it being a trilogy i mean if they're announcing a trilogy you would

think that it's probably going to be 10 11 and 12 her rebuilding the jedi order is going to be neat uh to touch on the other things that they showed uh acolyte very excited for that skeleton crew i'm a little skeptical of a mandolarian movie i tv shows going theatrical or never really goes well so i'm a little curious what they're going to do with that but overall i'm excited. So you bring up a good point, which is, okay, these movies exist, we're stuck with and we can't ignore them. At one point, like you said, people hated the prequels, but then we started to get kids who watched the prequels, they grew up, and they started to have fun with the aspects that weren't as good. Like, how many, I hate sand memes have you seen? The meme of,

like, one of the worst scenes in Attack of the Clines are Anakin and Padmaire Rowan of the Grat. That is one of my favorite all-time Star Wars memes. So I think the Star Wars fans do come around eventually, and we accept kind of a reluctant joy in the bad things. Like we kind of come to embrace those. The sequel trilogy, because the three movies are so tonally different and we were kind of blindsided by Palpatine, I think it's going to be a little bit harder for us to get there. But we are seeing on the Mandalorian and Asoka,

all these things that are kind of making those stories better in the same way that the Clone Wars made the prequels better. So I love, like you said, that they're doubling down, They're saying, no, no, no, we're going to keep this going. So I think hopefully these new movies, if done right, will make us look back fondly on the sequel trilogy because, you know, they'll make it all make sense, especially if it turns out that, you know, they lied about Ray B. and Palpatine's granddaughter. That would actually be pretty sweet.

I love that. What about you, Dodd? What are you feeling here? What did you like? What are you most excited about? And is Star Wars back on track for you. I mean, I think in a lot of ways it is. And I think both you and Colton were pointing to it earlier.

the secret of the sauce was Dave Filoni, right? Before when we looked at the prequel trilogies, when they first came out, there's a lot of people who especially got lost in the space politics aspect. I personally loved the space politics aspect, but like when I was a kid, of course, I didn't understand most of it. Now, growing up and having the Clone Wars and having rebels and kind of all those things kind of flesh out that universe more so, made us love that universe more, made us love Kenobi more,

made us love all of these things more. And now the same thing kind of happened with the sequel trilogy, right? It came out. We had a very, averse reaction for very valid reasons. I'm still not quite over the whole space Mary Poppins bit that Leopold, but, you know, however the case may be, you know, Mandalorian and even Badbatch has helped flesh out some of those kind of plot holes that we had in that universe, and now it kind of feels like it's been built up to. And now I'm kind of interested to see how the first order came to happen and like all these

like fumbling aspects of the new republic. So I'm super excited for that. Dave Filoni getting his chance, like his first ever chance to direct a movie is super duper exciting. I think that it's really cool to see, you know, this kind of like redemption thing that we've been doing for a lot of the Star Wars actors who are, you know, really burned by the Star Wars fan base, like Ray coming up on stage and getting all the cheers and the reactions that she's been getting for this is huge.

And it feels a lot like Ahmed Best and Mandalorian getting his bit of redemption. So I think the secret sauce here has been Dave Faloni, but by far, I'm with you, Ryan. My favorite thing that I'm most excited about is this Dawn of the Jedi. I really wanted to see a Star Wars movie that takes place at the beginning of the Jedi Order because I think that's a really, really fascinating part

where we jump in in Star Wars, the Jedi already painted as a good guy, right? But when you go back to the very beginning, the Jedi were simply the people that named the side of the force a light side and a dark side. They essentially assigned a morality to a force of nature. and the Sith were really just defacting Jedi that said we should use all of the force. Now, they did a lot of really messed up things along the way and got really far down that line

to where they had something like Palpatine, you know, come to power. But the whole aspect of that is really lost in the original trilogy and the sequel trilogy and even in all of the Star Wars we've seen. So there's so much potential with this. And of course, like the High Republic, some of those early Star Wars, stuff is a lot of things that's been explored in video games. And so I know for a lot of people that played those games, it's like, you know, seeing aspects of that universe is something that we've wanted to see for a long time.

I think it's interesting that, you know, you're giving, you know, Dave Filoni as flowers on this. Because, look, I love Clone Wars, a big fan of the Bad Batch, Rebels, I'm hitting mess with, I've got a whole spiel I can go into about that. Dave Filoni, to me, is somebody who, for a lot of... what we've seen. So Dave Faluny's influence on the Mandalorian has grown. And I think you can definitely see it this season. I think Dave Faluny is great at making sequels to his own Star Wars stories. You know, like if you have seen Clone Wars and Rebels, then you're really digging this season in The Mandalorian. But if you haven't, then you're totally lost. I think that with him,

because he's such a Star Wars nerd, that there is a lot of story baggage that comes with him. He gets Star Wars in a way that a lot of, the J.J. Abrams never did. You know, he went viral for that explanation of, well, if Quigon hadn't died, this and this and this would have happened and things like that. Like, he articulates all that really well. So he does cut to the heart of it. That's a failing for Anakin. He doesn't have the family that he needs. He loses his mother in the next film.

He fails on this promise that he made Mother, I will come back and save you. And Star Wars ultimately is about family. I do think, though, that, like Colton said, you know, you look like the X-Files movie. Any time you try to make this jump and you go, okay, so we're doing all these things from TV shows and you have to watch all these TV shows to understand this movie. Movies also need to be standalone. So I think it's very tricky to expect somebody to have watched. All these episodes of the Mandalorian, Boba Fett, Assocatano, Skeleton Crew, whatever Rangers in the New Republic becomes, all this stuff just so they can understand this movie. I'm the most pessimistic about that.

I kind of feel like Dave Faloni had some big wins when Lucasfilm needed. when Lucasfilm needed wins, and he's being rewarded for them, rightly so. But I do question, just kind of based on what I've seen in Boba Fett, I don't know how much he was involved in that, and how that clunky, like, the broader storytelling has been in the Mandalorian. I'm a little more pessimistic about that. Right. But, again, like, when you hear Dave Filoni talk about Star Wars, he's one of us.

And it's like hearing Kevin Feigy talk about Marvel. He was one of us. We know our own. So cautiously pessimistic about that one is all I'm going to say. to what I was saying earlier, I think we're at an interesting point with Star Wars where we had so many false starts, which are not uncommon in movie studios, especially if you consider that Lucasfilm was essentially a new studio when Disney bought it. You know, George Lucas gone, Kathleen so they had to kind of, even though the infrastructure was there, they had to like come up with

their identity and things. And I feel like the sequel trilogy was so divisive and solo was so ignored that when the Mandalorian hit, they doubled down on TV shows. And then we started getting these weird movie announcements, like you said, Colton, Kevin Feigy and all this other stuff, like, oh, okay, and then they would cancel them, which is totally normal in the movie business. It's abnormal to have every single movie announced before it's even in development.

This is the first time we've gotten movie announcements, apart from Brian Johnson trilogy, that I'm excited for. Like, I'm hearing this, and we are spanning 25,000 years of stories, right? That's incredible. They're really taking the galaxy into new places and building on what worked and what didn't work from before. Colton, what do you think? Was Star Wars off track, and do you feel better after this Star Wars celebration about

where at least it is on the big screen? Oh, it's been extremely off track. I mean, don't get me wrong. They've been making terrific stuff. I would say Andor is probably the best Star Wars we've gotten since the original trilogy. The Mandalorian's been great. Boba Fett, not so much. Kenobi, not so much.

And like I was saying a little bit earlier, I am a little surprised that there. now kind of doubling down on the movies because it seemed for so long that they were kind of abandoning the movies for a little while and maybe they were going to be rare. I mean, they took Kenobi and Boba Fed, both of which I think should have been movies, Kenobi especially. I think they really would have benefited from that. But yes, I think it's nice to see that Lucasfilm seems to have a plan. I mean, even if it didn't sound like a great plan, I'm just glad that they have a plan

and they're actually announcing things. The last few Star Wars celebrations, am I right? They didn't really announce much, didn't show much. This Star Wars celebration actually has, like, a lot of announcements, announced movies. So it seems that they're like getting their ducks in a row.

Kind of going back to Dave Filoni for a second, I wanted to talk about John Favro. Is it confirmed that Faloni is directing this movie, the Mandalorian crossing over all those stories. Yes. I would feel a lot better if it was Favreau, and I would feel a lot better. I've heard rumors that Kathleen Kennedy is stepping out. I'm not a Kathleen Kennedy hater.

I think she's been one of the best producers in Hollywood. I mean, Steven Spielberg loves her. I think she's done great stuff. But Star Wars has been, you know, having some issues with all the cancellations of movies and stuff like that. And it just has seemed off track. I've heard the rumors that she's leaving. And if she does leave, I think John Favreau is the right guy to put in there. I think that may already kind of be, I'm speculating now, but I think that may already kind of be happening with this announcement that they're going to be having the Mandalorian stuff going to the movies.

As far as your question goes as to are they on the right track now? Yes. And the reason being is they actually have a track. They actually have a plan. and that's what I'm most excited for. What it turns out to be, we shall see. Doc, how about you? Did you feel like Star Wars is off track

and is it back on track now? How do you feel about the future in general? Okay, so I think that's an interesting question because, like, Star Wars has spanned over such a long period of time, right? You could talk about it being off track. Oh, sorry. You can talk about it being off track

in several points of its history, right? And so I do feel that we're getting better, more back on track. I do think that this Star Wars celebration felt a lot bigger and better, like you were saying, Colton, than the last one. And the plan for the future seems a little bit more secure, right? I think, I don't know if we talked about this in the video or not, but the plan was a lot like trying to emulate what Marvel was doing,

which is funny to me because I feel like if there's anybody that started like the connected universe idea, it was probably Star Wars with all the different franchises that they put out there. It just wasn't working very well, right? And so they had decided, like, this is in and this is not in, And so Marvel, when they got their ducks in a row, they were like, okay, we're going to make sure that everything fits in perfectly and everyone knows that this is fitting in together. So I think Star Wars is getting back to that. And I do think that also when we talk about like Disney Star Wars or Star Wars Post Lucas, you know, I think that Star Wars really doesn't, or that Star Wars does well with stories that don't involve Jedi. Like, I do think that solo, I like solo.

I think it's a lot better the second time you watch it around. But Mandalorian, Rogue One, all of these stories that don't have Jedi in them, they tend to do pretty well. And for that sake, I think that now we've gotten enough time to really see what works in Star Wars. And so we can kind of go back to these stories that, well, I mean, one of these movies in here doesn't involve Jedi at all, assumedly. The Mandalorian one with Dave Faloni and Asoka and all that universe. Ray, of course, is going to be a big factor in the future movie. And then in the past movie is going to be, of course, the dawn of the Jedi. But I think we're now at a time where they've found what's working in their Star Wars universe.

They can add in the elements that are doing successful and go through with something that we all enjoy. Yeah, and I think that's a great point because up until now, what we've seen is a lot of reactionary decisions. You know, when Lucasfilm was first purchased by Disney, Disney said, okay, we want two things. We want everything to look and feel or take place around the time of the original trilogy, and we want a movie every other year. They were going to do a saga movie and then a spinoff movie. Basically for the next hundred years. I remember them saying this, like indefinitely, right?

And then, of course, actual production happened, and it's a lot harder to make a movie in two years. And I think they rush things so much. Like, we all know the story about, you know, Michael aren't having this script and working on it. And it happens this whole thing Lucas worked on. Then it got, like, trashed. And so J.J. Abrams wants to do his own thing. There's all these stories leading up to this that just basically said Lucasfilm didn't take the time to sit down, map out of plan.

You talk to anybody in Hollywood, they'll tell you the same thing. They ran into it first, you know, head first, even with Rise of Skywalker, Colin Chavaro walks or is fired or whatever. Instead of, oh, hold on, guys, let's figure this out. Well, we got a deadline to make because the rise of the resistance ride is coming out at Disney and Galaxy's Edge and it ties into that. So we need a movie to promote that, right? So a lot of decisions are being made from a business standpoint. Now I feel like the dust is settled, they've whetted our Star Wars appetite with these shows, and they're actually able to say, okay, let's find our people, let's find our creators,

let's do this right, let's not necessarily think we have to run out a new Star Wars announcement every other day about some trilogy that may not get made. So what I'm seeing is a lot more confidence. And what's essentially a brand new studio, like since Disney bought it. And it makes me really optimistic for what's going to happen. I think that, you know, Dodd, you said that they're the first interconnected universe. I would argue that Star Trek, because we, for a long time, just have the Star Wars trilogy. But Star Wars does this better than anybody else right now.

Despite some, you can kind of tell with the Mandalorian, there are some problems behind the scenes, or there's some stuff that makes this clunky. Like with introducing the book of Boba Fett and having the reunion happen in there, that's clearly like, okay, we only have eight episodes. Mandalorian, let's get this thing, and we need then in this, like they're trying to, it's very awkward, very Marvel phase oneish, but on the whole, if you're somebody who reads the novels, watches the animated shows, reads the comics, Star Wars is a cohesive story. And now, for the first time and a long time, I really feel like they're saying, all right, but what's out there?

You know, let's get away from this 25-year span after Revenge of the Sith and it returned to the Jedi. And like, let's really stretch our legs. And I'm so excited for what it's going to happen. No, I mean, I think that's great. I think the fact that, like, you're right, everything is on the table. Like, Acolyte, I think, is a huge thing for, you know, older public fans to get into. And these past stuff, like, that is stuff that for years people have just pined if, like, what if, okay. And people have explored themselves. I mean, like, they have multiplayer games where you can actually pick your character and exist in that universe. And now that universe is being able to be brought to life, the fact that everything is

on the table, I think it's really, really exciting. The possibilities with Star Wars are endless. That might sound cliche, but it's true. They have George Lucas created probably the single greatest fictional universe that has ever been made. And there is no reason that Lucasfilm in Disney shouldn't be cranking out some of just the absolute best movies and TV shows. And like they are. They're doing okay right now, but I'm excited to see where they'll go. but what Lucas left them just in terms of world building

and what they can do with it I'm very excited to see what they're going to do with it and I just really hope they don't drop the ball I don't think James Mangold doesn't know how to make a bad movie man he's always on the ball if if Indy's bad it'll my heart will be broken but like it's really interesting when you said about how like they were fumbling at the beginning about like oh we had to get a ride out and we had to push this out so we had to push a movie out

right? The thing that is really funny to me, I watched this documentary on the Star Wars Holiday Special, and that's beat for beat, how that happened. And it's funny to see Disney kind of learn that same first lesson that Lucas learned from the holiday special in the sequel trilogy. Like, he had to meet a deadline, and then they rushed through everything. And then all of a sudden, no one was attached to the property that was really understood the property. And then, you know, we got the holiday special. and will assemble our mini transmitters together. Let us work slowly or methodly because this is a job or doing work.

Dodd, are you implying that the holiday special is not good? I love the holiday special. I love it every year. I think it's amazing. Yeah, I can see the Life Day song right now off top of my head. Yeah. Well, guys, thanks both of you very much for joining me. Dodd, where can the people find you? You can find me on Twitch, TikTok, or Twitter at Roos. underscore Bain. And Dot, of course, writes for us here on Screencrush. You can always check out his work.

And Colton, where can the people find you? You can find me on Twitter at Colton Ogburn and videos here on Screencrush. And, of course, we want to hear from all of you. What do you think of all this? Are you excited about Star Wars Celebrations announcements? Let me know down in the comments below or feel free to add any of us on Twitter. And if it's your first time here, please subscribe and smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie. I'm going to be. Thank you.