ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - The Foggy reshoot just saved Daredevil: Born Again

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

Daredevil: Born Again's shocking premiere just killed off Foggy Nelson. We explain how this Marvel reshoot actually saved the show. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Reverence for the past, yet hope for the future. Oh, that is the next level closing argument. F.S. right there. Hey, welcome back to Screen Crush. I'm Colton Ogburn, and we need to talk about Daredevil Born Again, episodes one and two, specifically the opening scene of the series with Bullseyes' assassination of Foggy Nelson, R.I.P. Foggy. It's really gone.

He's good. We're going to break down how and why this last-minute reshoot was included in the show and how the Riders Strike saved this series from being another clunky Disney Plus series and instead making it a worthy sequel to one of the greatest shows of all time, Daredevil. Now, a little later, I'm going to be joined by Screencrush's own Tommy Bechtold and Ethan In to get their thoughts on Daredevil Born Again's first two episodes, and we will discuss the very different direction this show almost took. But first, let's break down this opening sequence and why it was so important to not only Daredevil born again,

but the future of Marvel as a whole, including big projects like Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret Wars. Now, I'm sure most of you are just like me when it comes to my love for the original Daredevil series. It's not only some of the best Marvel television ever made, but it's one of the best series ever made, period. Now, one thing about that original Daredevil show is that it was never technically 100, percent in the MCU. What do you mean? Well, the show had references here and there to the greater MCU, referencing the Avengers, the Battle of New York, et cetera.

Oh, and by the way, we have a great New York Bulletin Battle of New York shirt inspired by this from the original Daredevil series. It's up on our merch store right now, as well as lots of other great Daredevil-inspired merch, one of my personal favorites being our Nelson and Murdoch Law and Order Tea. So, anyway, while the Daredevil show and the other Netflix Marvel shows would occasionally make vague references to the broader MCU. At the time, that was just the movies. These references, they really only went one way. The movies never, ever referenced the Netflix shows and Daredevil never showed up in any of the Infinity Saga movies, despite this show airing during

phase three of the MCU, an era which most would consider Marvel's heyday. I remember theorizing back in the day on my own personal YouTube channel, like, oh, will the defenders show up in Infinity War? They didn't. Now, all of those Marvel Netflix shows, grew further and further from their already faint connection to the MCU. And when Netflix and Marvel parted ways, the shows were ultimately canceled. And after a long hiatus, Marvel brought back the man without fear and his greatest foe, the Kingpin. But they didn't simply bring back the characters, no, they brought back Charlie Cox and

Vincent Donofrio. Now, this was of course the right decision considering how beloved these two are in these respective roles. Charlie Cox returned as the really good lawyer in Spider-Man No Way Home and She-Hulk, while Kingpin returned in Hawkeye and Echo. Now, there was a lot of debate at the time over whether or not this meant that the Marvel Netflix shows, like Daredevil, were now canon to the greater MCU. Marvel Studios and even Charlie Cox were very ambiguous about how this show would connect

to the original. It was believed for a while that these Netflix shows could be viewed as loose histories to the character, but anything that they did. didn't want to keep canning could be ignored. And to me, this is where Marvel f***ed up. Yes, Charlie Cox and Vincent Donofrio are great in these roles, but they aren't the only thing that made that show work. The tone of that show and the supporting characters like Foggy, Karen, Frank Castle, and more were also what made this show so great. At first, Marvel was seemingly taking an approach of only bringing back Cox and Donofrio and giving us a neutered, watered

family-friendly version of the characters. And we saw a little bit of that in No Way Home, and Shee Hulk, and in Hawkeye, but that started to change a little bit in Echo, a show which also underwent a lot of reshoots and reworking mid-production. Now, this plan to have Daredevil Kingpin and their new show, Daredevil Born Again,

have the look and feel of a Disney Plus Marvel show slowly but surely becoming a really clear mistake. Having this series be essentially a reboot, not a continuation of the original series that ignored much of the show's past, it was a clear problem because the show had such a dedicated fan base, and that's when things began to change for the better. Now, look, Marvel is notorious for completely changing a project mid-production, and they have basically made reshoots in industry standard.

Now, usually these reshoots and script changes in the middle of the production feel like duct-taping a broken plate back together. They're super messy, and you can usually see them. Like, I'm confident that I could point out every single reshoot in Captain America, Brave New World. All of this is to say, this messy style that Marvel had adopted by recreating their shows and movies in the editing bay and in reshoots. It isn't great. It's not a great way to go about making quality content. It's better to have your story straight before you start filming.

Crazy, I know. I mean, that'd be like if I was doing this video right now and Doug was over there writing the script as I went. Yeah, I'm sorry. I wasn't listening. But with Daredevil Born Again, we are seeing this willingness to completely up into series and change it in the middle of production actually be a good thing and perhaps actually might have saved this show. One of the biggest complaints with the MCU as of late has been that Kevin Feigey is clearly being stretched too thin. During the writer's strike, production on Born Again was halted and this gave Feigy the opportunity to step in, watch some dailies, watch what they'd had cut, and come to the realization slash correct congruent. conclusion that the show wasn't working and that it was time to embrace the past.

This entire saga, the Multiverse saga, has been about embracing the past. So if you're going for nostalgia, then just freaking do it. And that's where everything started falling into place. Report after report began to drop of returning cast members like Deborah Ann Woll, Eldon Henson, Wilson Bethel, I Let Zer, John Bernthal, all returning. This entire opening sequence for this episode, this first episode of Born Again was one of the most recent things shot for the show, which is insane because this scene alone

has set the tone for the entire season. Oh, and I forgot to mention, we also got all of the original Netflix Marvel shows taken off of Netflix, and they were added to the official MCU timeline on Disney Plus, another brilliant move that honestly should have been done way sooner. I just cannot believe that they ever even considered making this show not a sequel to the original series.

and having it be like this lighter tone that was more in the vein of other Disney Plus Marvel shows. As Charlie Cox has discussed, that is what they were doing. And to me, that's blasphemous. Now, a little later, I'm going to talk about why bringing back Foggy Nelson just to kill him was actually the perfect move and a necessary one. But first, I want to bring on my friends Tommy and Ethan

to get their thoughts on this return to form for Marvel and how these reshoots may have actually save the show. Okay, guys, so I was just discussing how this show did a major, like, Ross from Friends, like, couch pivot that I think saved this show from being, like, you know, just another, like, cookie cutter Disney Plus Marvel show. All due respect to those shows, but I, I just don't think that they've ever, like, hit the level that the Daredevil, like, Netflix show did. And I think that with these first two episodes of Born Again, it was really solid. And I'm interested to know, because I don't think I've talked to either of you about it very extensively.

Are you with me? Did you enjoy these first two episodes? Is Marvel back, Tommy? Marvel is so back. In fact, Marvel never left. No, I really, really enjoyed these episodes. I thought that they certainly get it going. They put some high stakes on this series immediately. And, you know, something that I remember when the Daredevil show came out on Netflix was like, the realistic fight scenes just separated it from everything else like people getting out of breath during fights is so rare in TV and movies and it's just I I really enjoy the way they do it and they took it to a new level this season on this show so yeah I'm all in so Tommy I think it's safe to say like are are you with me on the fact that the reshoots like we saw from like set leaks

and stuff the stuff with Karen and Foggy that was added really late in the game after the rider's you know, halted production and all of that. Are you with me that that was a good move? Because, like, you know, not always, like, reshoots can sometimes, you know, they're very clear, like, you can see them in the cut, and it's just messy. And I think studios kind of rely on them a little too heavily sometimes. But I think this is an example of them really taking that, you know, the art of the reshoot and perhaps saving the show.

I think it just makes a lot of sense for those two to be in the show. and, you know, and not recast. If you're going to have Charlie Cox and Vincent Dianofrio play Kingpin and Daredevil, it makes sense to bring back actors from the previous show in other roles as well. And there's something about the show now, like there's something about Matt Murdoch's character now with what happened to Foggy, it just feels like it has this extra level of despair to it because it's like his like bedrock has been shattered. Yeah.

Well, and my fear is, it's like you know that Foggy, and Karen originally weren't in the show. I've already discussed earlier in the video. I don't know how they ever considered doing that. You can see in this opening scene, you can see them trying to, like, incorporate the new cast with the old cast and make them feel like they're part of this OG crew. Ethan, without any spoilers,

I've given Ethan the no-spoiler talk, nothing at all. You have actually seen all nine episodes of this series, which is awesome. you lucky duck. So without giving any spoilers, and please do be vague. One, I want to hear your thoughts on, you know, these first two episodes. And then, you know, like, just vague, like thumb up, thumb down thoughts on the whole series. But I'm also curious, my fear is that we are going to see in the rest of the episodes, like, oh, this is pre-reshoots, this is post-reshoots.

Without giving anything away, does that wishy-washy, like back and forth? Do you feel that in the upcoming episodes? or do they stick the landing with like sticking true to the look and feel of the original series? So I would say that there's one storyline that I can clearly tell is like a reshot or a pre-rewrite storyline. But what is added there is I think so good. It's a big thumbs up for me. It is everything I love about the original series. But actually like in the MCU,

without just making mention of the incident or the Hulk or Iron Man above the sky and stuff like that. So I love what the show is doing. I think the first two episodes are an amazing, like, reintroduction. We get the like feeling of Daredevil again, but it's not the same. It was never going to be exactly like the original, but I love what they're doing with these first two episodes where we see Matt kind of punishing himself and all that. Well, you know, I don't want to come off as like somebody who is, I don't want anything new

I just want them to remake the first three seasons No I'm all for them embracing the new stuff But I also like like foggy said You know nostalgia reverence for the past Yet hope for the future Yeah I love that line and I think it explains perfectly Like what they are doing I'm glad to hear that they do

It sounds like pretty much stick the landing With the rest of the series I'm very excited I might be really biased But I do think I do think it it is. Daredevil is my favorite show of all time, but I think they stick in the landing. Let me ask you this. Does it feel like season four? Oh, definitely. I was talking to some people on our Discord and they made mention of like this, knowing what you know about the first three seasons, this is a season four. It's not a season one

of a new show. This is, um, you can still watch, you can jump on here and, you know, that's why episode one felt really expositive in some places, but it is a continuation I'm okay with the exposition in the sense of, because I'm really, you know, I'm really critical of like bad exposition. But even if this was just like a straight up season four dropping on Netflix, it's been seven years. I'm fine with a little bit of a reminder. And I'm glad to hear that they are doing what the MCU used to be really good at, which was, here's a movie. You can enjoy it without having seen any of the other movies. But if you have seen the other movies, you're going to enjoy it even more. So I'm glad they're doing that. Okay. So this series is in

the multiverse saga. The multiverse saga has been all about nostalgia, embracing the past. I want to ask you guys, do you think we are going to see even more, like, embracing of that past? Do you think we could potentially see, I don't know, a Punisher Season 3? We know John Bernthal's back as Punisher in this series to what level I don't know. Ethan knows, but don't tell us. I view it as kind of, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of thing. This seems to be working. I think those, you know, previous series, like, you know, the Defenders universe, lots of really good stuff. Some not so great.

Tommy, do you think there's a chance we see another season of Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Punisher? I was just going to say, the one I'm really pulling for is Luke Cage cameo. I really hope that they bring him back in some capacity, whether it's the second half of this show. Because what, there's 19 episodes overall or 18 episodes overall? there's nine in this first season and eight confirmed for season two eight confirmed okay got it so i'm i'm hoping in some way we get we get a lukegauge cameo

because i really i love that character that was uh i think that was my favorite part of the defenders and i know there's a lot of jesska jones fans out there not as many danny rand fans as we maybe uh want for the poor guy the knight of flowers or whatever his name was on game of thrones uh but uh i uh yeah i give me power man or give me death So, Ethan, without, like, revealing anything, you know, if Luke Cage pops up or something, do you also, like, share Tommy and I's, like, hope that there will be, like, more embracing of that universe and, you know, tying into, like, stuff, like, with The Punisher, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones?

I think what we have in episode one and two is already so greatly tied into the original show, like the, there's that one scene at the end of season three where fogging Karen are talking about what would happen if Matt crossed that line. And that's exactly what we see in episode one and two. I will say, with this is without any spoilers, that during some interviews, I think the show

runner for the show let's slip that they were talking about a Punisher special presentation with John Bernthal set to write. It was kind of all over Twitter, so not a spoiler, I swear. Don't come after me in the comments. Spoiler! Yeah, I'm excited for that.

Tommy, I believe you said you saw those reports as well. So that's cool to hear. I love John Bernthal's Punisher. I'm really hoping to get to see him, you know, slap around some fanboys. You know, we saw like the skull tattoos and stuff, like these Punisher fanboys. Speaking of the showrunner, Ethan, I saw an interview with the showrunner where he was asked about the potential of like including Spider-Man. And he pretty much said no. But Tommy, I wanted to ask you, this whole season seems to be about we're going to see Fisk like drop the hammer.

on vigilantes. We even got that little Spider-Man mention. I loved it. Oh, I loved it. It was so good. My poor wife, in bed, cozy, reading. I'm screaming from the other room. They referenced Spider-Man. They did it. They finally did it. Honey? Honey, they did it. They mentioned a spider costume. Oh, my God. Honey, I can't believe it. Vincent DiNofrio said it on my TV. TV screen.

History was made. Any chance. Any chance in hell we see Tom Holland make a little cameo? You know, it's so funny. You can say nothing. When Wilson Fisk was walking by that giant pothole that he demands be filled, I was like, that kind of looks like the potholes that Doc Ack was making in Spider-Man No Way Home. I was like, oh, God, is Alfred Molina going to, like, pop up an octopus?

arms right now. I was like, that would be wild for this show. They'd be all in. I mean, they did mention a magical amulet. So they are acknowledging, you know, magic and things like that in this world. But, uh, I really hope we get a Spider-Man. Well, and I, I loved the, just the vague, like, the mention of the amulet. Like, they're in the MCU. Like, I was kind of worried, like, you know, this Matt Murdoch has hooked up with She-Hulk. That doesn't really fit with, like, the first, like two seasons of Daredevil but you know Daredevil season three and like the defenders they've got pretty mystical as well so so I'm glad that they're like just kind of embracing the the quirkiness of the Marvel universe and Tommy I I think you're spot on about the hole it Ethan you helped

Ryan with our our Easter egg video for the breakdown I haven't actually got to watch that yet don't you guys mention that that hole was like on the same bridge like with dog ock and all that it is it is a similar looking setting I think Ryan specifically was like, it would have been cool if we got another throwaway line there where Fiske said, oh, that spider guy was fighting a guy in a rhino costume and it's causing this trap. It would have added more to the whole, like, well, we already see it in the first two episodes of, like, citizens having disdain towards vigilantes, but that would have, like, really drove the point home, I feel like.

I'll push back a little. I do not want to hear, this is one of my problems with Brave New World. I liked Brave New World fine. but it felt like every five minutes they were like mentioning the avengers vibranium wakonda this that it felt a little too referencey i'm glad i think daredevil is kind of walking that line of mentioning just ever so slightly that that's my preference well guys i now want to talk about how bringing back foggy nelson just to kill him off might have actually been the the single like most important thing to saving not only this series but really just maybe

Marvel in general, and I think it is setting a good precedent for going into Avengers Doomstay, Avengers Secret Wars, and I'm going to explain all of that. Now, Tommy, thank you so much for joining us. You can find his social links down in the description below. And guys, you probably know Ethan. If you're on our Discord, he's in there quite a bit, and we'll have his social links below as well. All right, here's why Foggy Dying had to happen. So bringing back Foggy Nelson just to kill him was needed, in my opinion. Bringing back Benjamin Poindexter, Bullseye, was also needed. I love Foggy Nelson and I love Eldon Henson's portrayal of this character, but I am totally fine with them killing him off. Here's why. Daredevil ran for three seasons and we got that season

of Defenders. Foggy story has been told his fun early law days with Matt, him finding out Matt is Daredevil, his relationship with Karen, him being mad about Matt being Daredevil and then ultimately accepting it and then being put in danger many, many, many times. It had all been done. So the next logical step for this character and for Matt was for Matt to lose something. Don't get me wrong, he's lost plenty,

but if you want to tell a daredevil story and you'll want to tell it right, especially a story like Born Again, Matt has to lose something. I mean, in the Born Again comics, he lost everything. It's also in that comic that we see Karen become a heroin addict, which may still be

on the table for this season, especially like if she's trying to cope with Matt not really being in her life anymore and of course with foggy being dead we'll just have to see but i get why some may feel like they just brought foggy back just to kill him off and sure to a degree that that is true that is what they did they started this show with no intention of even bringing foggy back with no intention of bringing caring back which i don't know how anyone could have possibly thought that that was a good idea but i digress and you know sure it it would have been nice to get a little more time with Foggy this season after all of these years. But I have to say, this gut punch of

losing Foggy in the opening scene by the hands of Bullseye following up on this final shot from Daredevil Season 3 when we find out that Bullseye is alive and well, it was the perfect tether between these two shows and it was a very much needed tether. Now Foggy Nelson and Matt Murdoch, the relationship between these two best friends that we became so invested in, hell, these three best friends, it would have been criminal not to use all of that character development and all of that story and lore from those other shows to further the story of Daredevil. So I think that bringing them back was crucial to saving this show from becoming another mid-cookie-cutter Disney Plus nightmare and instead bringing back foggy and having him killed off

in that first episode, it was the cherry on top to the complete reshuffling that we saw take place during this show's halted production, a reshuffling that ultimately saved the show. But guys, those are just my thoughts. I want to hear your thoughts down in the comments below. Do you agree with me that bringing back Foggy and Karen and heavily connecting this series to the previous one was the right move?

Let me know your thoughts on that down in the comments below or you can at me on Twitter or you can find me on our Discord link in the description below. If you're new here, please feel free to subscribe, smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Colton Ogburn. I'm going to be.