ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - Tobey Maguire SPIDER-MAN 4 Raimi Announcement? - Avengers SECRET WARS Connection Explained

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

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Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Did Sam Ramey just confirm that he and Toby McGuire are returning for Spider-Man 4? A little later, I'm going to be joined by the man himself, Ryan Erie, and friend of the channel, Brian Silliman, to discuss the possibility of Spider-Man 4 becoming a reality. But first, let's break down exactly what was said, as well as why I think Sony will be forced to include Kevin Feigy and and Marvel Studios on this project. Welcome back to Screen Crush, I'm Colton Ogburn,

and ever since Toby McGuire returned to the role of the web swinger in Spider-Man No Way Home, fans have been clamoring for a fourth installment of his Spider-Man series. In addition to Toby's return, we also had the return of director Sam Ramey to the world of Marvel with Doctor Strange in the multiverse of madness.

Perhaps another clue that this long thought dead film could be revived. In an interview with Thomas Hayden Church, aka the Sandman, he revealed that not Not only would he be interested in returning for a Toby McGuire and Sam Ramey's Spider-Man 4, but that he has heard rumors that the movie is happening. There was also a fan who met and spoke with Ramey at a convention where Ramey supposedly said that there was a chance of Spider-Man 4, quote, simply because he has the same desire

as we do. We of course being the diehard fans of his original trilogy. Ramey also reportedly said that if it is to happen, it will be at the right time. You see, Ramey Spider-Man 4 was almost a reality, but just days before principal photography was to begin, the studio pulled the plug. A little later I'm going to tell you about the original plot for Spider-Man 4 and how I think it could be adapted with an older Peter Parker, and how it could tie into Avengers Secret Wars.

But first, we've got to talk about the Sony of it all. Sony Pictures has been having a rough time with their Spider-Man-adjacent projects as of late, Madam Webb being their most recent bomb. Without sound, we wouldn't have been able to hear such classic lines as you're going to need a bigger boat. I'll have what she's having. And he was in the Amazon with my mother when she was researching spiders just before she died. Fans have been calling for Sony to stop with its attempts at Spider-Man less live-action Spider-Verse movies. And to just leave the live-action Spider-Man stuff to Marvel Studios. And then they can just sit back and watch the money flow in.

But we do have to remember and give credit to the fact that Sony pictures did make the classic Sam Ramey Spider-Man films before Marvel Studios even existed. Granted, it was their overbearing control of Spider-Man 3 that ultimately killed that franchise, but still, Spider-Man 1 was awesome, and Spider-Man 2 is my favorite comic book movie ever made. So, if Sony Pictures were to Greenline a Spider-Man 4 and give Sam Ramee full creative control to just do his thing and make another cinematic masterpiece, isolate it from the MCU and the multiverse, and all of the other, you know, Sony projects like Madam Webb, Venom, all that stuff, Craven, Morbius. I would totally be on board for that, but I'm not so sure they can, legally speaking. That's illegal? Very illegal. You see, Sony's deal

with Marvel Studios allows Marvel to use the Spider-Man character in MCU films like The Avengers, and Marvel Studios then makes the MCU Spider-Man movies in a partnership with Sony Pictures, who then distributes those movies. But as part of their contract with Marvel Studios, Sony is not allowed to use Spider-Man just however they want. For example, Sony wanted to have Tom Holland show up in that first Venom movie, but Marvel was able to stop that because they had the legal power through their contract. Sony can't use a live-action Spider-Man in any of their films made without Marvel Studios. This is why in all of Sony's Spider-Man-adjacent films, Spider-Man is nowhere to be seen or even mentioned,

unless it's approved by Marvel Studios, like we saw in the Venom Let There Be Carnage, post-credit scene. But this could be a blessing and disguise for Spider-Man 4. While the MCU Spider-Man is Tom Holland, a Toby McGuire Spider-Man movie would still be a live-action Spider-Man movie, meaning that Marvel Studios, according to their contract with Sony, would have to be involved in order for that film to get made. And legally having to include Kevin Feige in your movie isn't a bad thing. In fact, it could be this movie's saving grace. He's saving us. Having Marvel Studios and Kevin Feigy involved in this movie could be the key to making sure Sam Ramey is given the creative control and ability to make a truly great movie that has the look and feel of his OG Spider-Man films. And not just a

movie where Toby McGuire fights Venom and Morbius and Craven and Michael Keaton's vulture and something to do with Spider-Man, I think. And don't worry, Spider-Man 4 being overseen by Marvel Studios doesn't mean it will be a big multiversal extravaganza. It could still be an intimate story about the struggles of Peter Parker and what it's like being an older Spider-Man. It could be the Logan of the Spider-Man franchise. But Kevin Feigey and Marvel Studios' involvement leaves the door open for Toby to rejoin the multiversal story that was started in No Way Home and joined the fight in Avengers' Secret Wars. And like I said, a little later, I want to tell you how a Sam Ramey and Toby McGuire Spider-Man

4 could work as both a solo outing and a love letter to an era that honestly has passed for superhero films, but also how it can play into that greater multiversal story. But first, I want to bring on Ryan Erie and Brian Silumann to get their thoughts on this news. All right, well, those are just my thoughts. Now I'm joined by a guy that you may have seen here on the channel before, Ryan Erie, and friend of the channel, Brian Siliman. So, Ryan, before we get into the nitty-gritty of if we, like, will actually be seeing a Sam Ramey Spider-Man 4, I wanted to ask you,

is this something you would even be interested in seeing? And if so, what would you like to see happen in a Spider-Man for? What would make it worth it for them to actually do it? Yeah, man, I mean, Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness showed us that Ramey's still got the goods. I mean, he can still bring home a superhero movie, and he can do it when they're like shoehorning in characters from, like, different universes and franchises. So, yeah, I mean, anytime Sam Ramey steps up to the plate and says, I have a great idea for a superhero movie and I'm excited about doing this, I'm all for it. Plus, you know, we owe him justice after Spider-Man 3, when Avi Arad forced him to include Venom. which Aviate Rod later apologized for in the press.

Ramey had another great Spider-Man movie in him, and the studio got in his way. Sony did what they always do. They put in too many characters, and they got in the way of that happening. As for what I'd like to see, right? So the Spider-Man that we saw, the Toby Spider-Roe, we saw in No Way home.

He's a little older. He's not exactly married to Mary Jane yet, but they're working it out. It implied enough things that were it made me curious what the heck was going on in his life. I think a great way for them to go, and I'm shocked Sony hasn't done this yet, is to adapt Spider-Girl from the comics.

You know, we saw with Madam Webb that Sony is desperate to have any character who's not Spider-Man appear in their movies. So instead of introducing three Spider-Woman in a hypothetical flash-forward in a movie that nobody watches or cares about, just do Spider-Girlgirl. Now, Spider-Girl was, as Peter and Mary Jane's daughter from the future, Peter can't be Spider-Man anymore because he's lost a leg,

they could adapt that story. You know, they could have Peter get injured and then bring her in. And it's cool because it's like an optimistic sunny future, which we never really get to see in Marvel. And it's just a great way to do like a Batman beyond, but in a Spider-Man type setting. So that's what I'd like to see them do. And you make a great point that they definitely need to take advantage

of the fact that they have an older Spider-Man. It doesn't just need to be another Spider-Man movie. They need to acknowledge the fact that Toby is a seasoned Spider-Man, a seasoned Peter Parker. So, Brian, would you be interested in seeing Sam Ramey and Toby McGuire Spider-Man 4? And, you know, same question to you. What could they do in that movie that would make it worth doing? I didn't think that I would be, and then the more I thought about it, the more I'm like, yeah, I kind of would.

For all of the reasons that Ryan was just saying, if it leans more Spider-Man 2 than 3, because 2 was whole and was just a wonderful, complete story, whereas 3 was just crammed to the gills, I think the swinging, I honestly, just my entitled wish list would just lead off with swinging. the ramy way of doing the swinging is phenomenal and to the point where at least the MCU Spider-Man's when they've done it it's been great but I think they've steered away from trying to emulate that but I think tilting more, I think the Batman Beyond idea is fantastic and if it leans more that way and a little more Logan and not the Flash

great. If it's Logan, Batman Beyond it's like interested, but if it tilts toward just blatant the Flash or anything like that, then I will still watch it, but I won't be happy about it. I thought the nostalgia, when I watched, sorry, Colin, when I watched the Batman and the Flash, I expected full on nostalgia vibes, but to me it didn't even feel like Keaton was playing the same version of Batman that he played years ago. I don't think we'd have that problem with Ramie though and Toby McGuire. Well, Brian, I was just going to say, I won't, tolerate flash slander when I'm hosting, so I'm just going to have to go ahead and kick you out.

mute his mic. Turn him off. Um, so I think you make a great point. One of my favorite things about the Ramey films is the look. And I mean, yeah, the swinging. No Spider-Man film. Maybe the Amazing Spider-Man too, a film I hate, but I'll give it. It was beautiful. I thought Amazing Spider-Man with the practical swinging looked pretty good because they actually put stunt people up and they filmed them swinging. It was something different. Yeah, I'll give you that. The crane scene is fantastic. I love the crane scene.

You're kidding, right? You're just joking about this? No, I like the crane scene. You like the crane scene? I like the crane scene. The crane scene that is just trying to rip off Ramey one and two? Are you serious? You like the crane scene?

Wow. I didn't think it would be this contentious, but yeah. You didn't come here to make friends. You're like this in the flash. You're like praising the crane scene. this guy's in here like Highlander 2 is the best of the franchise it's worker solidarity the crane workers came together and helped spider man save new york city man exactly i've never seen that before in a spider man movie yeah it was pro union you mess with one of us you mess with all of us spider man one but yeah man so i'm with you on that the main reason i'd want to see another ramy spider man film

and i want to clarify i didn't mention this earlier i have zero interest in a toby maguire spider man movie if Sam Ramey's not involved. I just don't see a reason to do it unless it's the two of them together. But also, another player that I think is important to have in a Spider-Man for would be Kevin Feigey. I touched on this a little earlier. From what I understand, reading what I could find, the details of the Sony Marvel Studios contract, Sony is not allowed to do anything Spider-Man, Peter Parker, and the live action at least, without Marvel Studios. whether it be Tom Holland, Toby, Andrew, or even a new Spider-Man, they can't touch it.

So I think if they were to do a Spider-Man 4, Marvel Studios would have the right. Like, they would be obligate, Sony would be obligated to include Marvel Studios and a Spider-Man 4. So my question to you, Ryan, is that a good thing? Are you glad that seemingly by law Kevin Feige would have to be involved? Do you think that'd be a good thing for giving Sam Ramey, like the free reign that I think he should have on a Spider-Man-4? Um, I, my gut says no, I wouldn't like to see that because Marvel tends to have their house style and their house VFX, you know, they start working on the VFX before they have a script. I'm actually hoping that Marvel has pumped the brakes on that kind of thing lately, you know, as we've had like more projects that have really gotten away from them and as VFX workers have had last minute changes, I'm hoping they go back to basically the Joss Whedon Avengers model where, and this is crazy guys, you write a script and then you make the storyboards and then you make the storyboards and then you make. the visual effects. I know. It's nuts to go out of order

like that. That's wild. You look at Guardian's three. You're out of your mind. I know. I know, I know. Guardians three did that. You know, James Gunn wrote a script. They gave him a couple extra years to refine the script, and then they made the movie. I do think, though, that Marvel would get out of his way. You know, one thing

Marvel, like, Studios has demonstrated is they will get out of a director's way if that director knows what they're doing. I think they like to bring in indie directors and say, don't worry, we'll take care of the action scenes. we'll take care of that and then their voice

kind of gets diminished in all of the cacophony but Sony what's Sony doing like what was the last quality superhero film they made you want to make an argument

for Venom the last 45 minutes maybe or the middle part like I have no idea what's going on over there I mean they have wasted they have squandered this franchise

worse than WB squandered Michael Keaton Batman in my opinion and when I say that I'm not dissing the flash don't cut my mic. I'm saying that because when you watch the Oscars and you saw Michael Keaton facing off with the individual in Arnold Schwarzenegger,

you thought, that guy could have been in Batman Beyond. Not to keep bringing it back to Batman Beyond, but like, that was the movie we wanted and they didn't give it to us, and I'm angry. So as far as Marvel being involved, sure, why not? Well, and to your point, I can hear the comment section now. It's important to distinguish between Sony pictures and Sony animation because I can hear people saying, oh, what about Spider-Verse? Spider-Verse is not

the same group of people that are making these live-action has to do with Spider-Man, I think, movies that we're seeing with Madam Webb and Craven and all that. Colton, I think the Ramey thing is important there as well, to what, to your point, if it's Ramey and it's, he's fine, he's good. Don't do to him what he could end up with another Spider-Man 3 if there are too many cooks, so. Well, and that, that's my main concern.

Like, whether it's Sony pictures by themselves or Marvel Studios involved, I think it's important that Sam Ramey just be given, you know, let him do his thing. Also, you know, if Marvel Studios is involved, I think I understand Kevin Feigy needing to have a lot of say over MCU proper films. But this film would be taking place in the Ramey universe, not in the main 616. So I could see Kevin Feigy just saying, hey, you know what, do what you want to do. He kind of did that with multiverse of madness. And I think that while I love multiverse of madness when it comes to the Ramey style of it, I do wish Figey had been a little bit more involved in terms of keeping the storylines together and whatnot.

So, Brian, are you saying you're with me that you think that Marvel Studios being involved would be a plus, or do we want to give Sony another chance to make a Spider-Man movie without them? I think Sam Ramey is needed over there, is definitely needed to make some kind of sense of the Sony. stuff and to give us a reason why. I think Kevin Feige is, whatever Tom Holland's next Spider-Man movie is, I'd rather than focus on that. So if they get

all of that baggage out of the way and let the MCU tell a Spider-Man 4, and with Ramey involved over, it just disconnected. Tell that, tell Spider-Man 4 the way we might have had it before all of this, without

Avi Arad with Kirsten Dunst. Yeah, totally agree. That's great. Colton, to your point, the other thing you said about the contract, I'm not, I mean, obviously we have to, no one's seen the contract, but you can kind of look at what Sony's doing and guess about this. Like, it does seem like they're forbidden from using Peter Parker because in Madam Webb, they wouldn't even say the baby's name that Mary was pregnant with. Right. And in Venom. How Tom Holland wasn't allowed in Venom and just, they seem to be dancing around it in the trailers. They'll like include an Easter egg. It's not in the movie, like, in Morbius.

It's just, that's a good assumption to make, I think, that they can't, that maybe it would be a thing where it's like a consumer confusion where if they do use Spider-Man, then people would think it's the MCU. But at this point, what is Sony, like, Sony should just sell, I'm sorry, I know what we're talking about,

but Sony should just sell the rights back for a ton of money. I agree. They should either sell the rights back or, and I know, you've started me, they should either sell the rights back or kick back, let Marvel Studios, make all the movies, including all the venom stuff, and just let the money flow in. That's what I would do if I was running Sony.

That'll never happen because executives have to justify their salaries. You're exactly right. Now, we're doing a lot of talk about what we'd want to see in Spider-Man for, which studio will be involved. But the question really is, this is all predicated on an interview with Thomas Aden Church and a quote that a fan got from Sam Ramey at like a convention. So my next question to you guys is, and I'll throw it to you first Ryan. Is there any there there, or Sam Ramey and Thomas Hayden Church, are they having just as much wishful thinking as we are?

Do you actually think a Spider-Man 4 is something that's on the table? Yeah, because it'll make money. I mean, sometimes it takes fans and stars to, like, circumvent the studio system, like with Deadpool, when I don't know if they ever did discover the identity of the person who leaked the Deadpool test footage and got the fans clamoring behind that movie. But I know Ryan Reynolds is out there looking for the real killer, much like, OJ. So I think that, yes, there's a solid chance that it could happen because it'll make money. You know, if they got all the parties lined up, I think absolutely it could.

What about you, Brian? I mean, yeah, I think I think Ryan's right. I think also it got us talking about it. The more people are talking about it, the more dollar signs they're going to see, especially after Madam Webb. Kirsten Dunst has also said recently, yes, she'd do another comic book movie. nobody's saying no nobody's they're keeping the possibility open it's almost like they're testing the waters with interviews like that and again it's the we're all talking about it the more fans start clamoring for it release the ramy spider-man four they're they're gonna see dollar signs and they're going to see their paychecks justified and i think the more hubbub buzz there is

the more they're going to want to do it especially after the the the the just the Madam Webb and Sony thus far. Well, you know, I... If I could add in one little point here, Colton, because we're excited about this, but I want to go ahead and play devil's advocate and temporary expectations on this. With Michael Keaton, like Michael Keaton,

there was rumors that WB was picking him to be the new Batman, that, like, Flash was going to alter the universe, and Michael Keaton was going to be a Batgirl and all this other stuff, right? And that, to me, just felt like they were going, well, you know, we're not going to use Ben Affleck, who else do we do? Okay, well, people like

Ben Michael Keaton, his cue rating's really high. some of this stuff just seems to me like studios with no ideas who are just who see conversations like this and go well the internet's talking about it we better do it but again with ramy i have faith it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's an excellent point because they're like oh that meme of the unknown from the failed willie wonka experiment that's make a movie of that they're just throwing anything they can of what's catching so i think that's a that's a thing to be wary of but it comes down to ramy again it's in ramy uh we try to And Ramey, we trust for sure. And you know, I am hopeful. I'm optimistic. Spider-Man 4 is something I've been thinking about since I was a young man. And that is why I want to share with you guys right now my pitch for how they could do with Spider-Man 4. Brian, thank you so much for being here. Ryan, I think we can find you here on Screen Crush from time to time. So thank you for joining me as well. All right. So here's my pitch for Spider-Man 4. Now, like we mentioned earlier, Spider-Man 4 got really close to actually happening. Little is known about the films overall. plot, but here's what we do know. John Malkovich, yes, John freaking Malcovich was going to play the vulture. Bruce Campbell was going to return as Mysterio. Remember he had those cameos in the first three Spider-Man movies that Ramey did? Well, he was going to have another cameo in Spider-Man 4, a little bit larger cameo where he plays Mysterio. No one will be seated after the doors are

closed. It helps maintain the illusion. Black Cat was also reportedly going to appear and the whole thing was just going to be a return to form following the missteps of Spider-Man 3. Now, while I would love to see some of Ramey's original plans for Spider-Man 4 still used in this new version of the movie, I admit that a lot is going to have to change, and it's going to have to be a very different movie. Keep in mind, Toby's Peter will be nearly 20 years older than he was in Spider-Man 3. So this can't just be your standard Spider-Man movie. And that's a good thing, because there is a gold mine of stories to be told with an older Spider-Man who has finally figured out how to balance his life as the web swinger and Peter Parker.

But now once again being met with that tear between the two because he is facing new obstacles like being a dad and wondering if it's time to hang up the mask. But as we're reminded in No Way Home, Toby's universe doesn't have Avengers. I was in The Avengers. The Avengers. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. What is that? He will feel responsible for keeping New York safe.

And another thing, Peter Parker cannot still be doing freelance photography at The Daily Bucle. So, in my pitch, Peter is now a professor at the same university we saw him attending in the original films. He's now working alongside his former professor and now colleague Dr. Kirk Connors. And this is the movie where we will finally get to see Dylan Baker's Kirk Connors become The Lizard. What makes for a great Spider-Man film, especially in the Ramey films, is that Spider-Man's villains have a deep connection to Peter Parker.

Norman Osborne was his best friend's father and a mentor. to Peter. Otto Octavius was one of Peter's idols and then became a mentor for a brief period. Sandman was responsible for the death of Uncle Ben, so I think if we're going to revisit the Ramey Spider-Man universe, then we have to finally bring that story full circle with Peter's longest serving mentor and friend, Kurt Connors, becoming his new villain. We could see a great scene where Peter could try to warn Dr. Connors not to experiment on lizard DNA to regrow his arm because he has met a variant of Dr. Conner. like we saw in No Way Home.

Okay, great. Just FYI. Lizard guy's here too. And he knows that the experiment goes haywire. Now, another reason that I suggest the lizard be the villain is because he had a big role to play in the original Secret Wars comics, where we saw him reject his villainous ways. This was also picked up in the Spider-Man the animated series version of Secret Wars.

So we could see Dylan Baker's Lizard from a Ramey Spider-Man 4 join Avengers' Secret Wars later down the line. Well guys, those are just our thoughts on the latest news regarding Sam Ramey and Toby McGuire returning for a possible Spider-Man 4. Let me know, is this a movie that you would be interested in seeing or you're as excited as I am? And do you share my hope that Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios must be involved for this movie to have its best shot of being the best it it can be? Let me know down in the comments below, or you can at me on Twitter.

And if it's your first time here, be sure to subscribe, smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Colton Ogburn. I'm going to be.