ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - Vecna's Plan Was in Front of Us All Along - Stranger Things Breakdown

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

ScreenCrush The Podcast tackles all the movie and TV hot topics, offering reviews and analysis of Marvel, Star Wars, and everything you care about right now. Hosted by Ryan Arey, and featuring a panel of industry professionals.

What if Vecna isn't really the big bad of Stranger Things and Henry Creel is a victim and not a villain? We're going to talk about that theory and what we think is about to happen at the end of this season. Welcome back Screencrush, I'm Ryan Ary. And today we're going to be talking about the theory that Stranger Things 5 is leading in one specific direction. Time trap. Now, we are going to be talking about the Broadway play, Stranger Things the First Shadow, which shows Vecna's origin story. The Duffer Brothers have said that it's not essential viewing for the show,

but the series has already used many references to the play, and we think that this finale is going to draw heavily from its story. Now, in the first four episodes of Stranger Things 5, we saw that Vecna slash Henry slash 1 is back with yet another identity, Mr. Watson. That's too many names. And, just like we saw in season 4, Henry is up to his same old tricks, trying to get the kids to do his bidding. Last season, we saw Henry massacre every last kid in Hawkins Lab, except for Elle.

And then he asked Elle to join him. Join me. And yeah, that didn't go well. the plan is looking a little different. Rather than a child partner in crime, Henry is hoping to use 12 kids, remember that number, 12, for some sort of evil scheme. His first target was Mike and Nancy's little sister, Holly Wheeler. So he gives off White Rabbit from Allison Wonderland vibes. Henry, or Mr. Watsitt, shows up with a pocket watch in a spiffy suit and convinces Holly that he's actually her friend, and he's there to keep her safe from monsters. Now, of course, those are actually his monsters and one

Moll's Holly's mom, Karen, in front of her. Lucky for him, Holly gets over that pretty quickly. Holly's time with Mr. Watsett doesn't look anything like Will's time in the upside down, at least not at first. She's baking cookies, trying on about a dozen different dresses, and listening to her favorite music. But, especially with that last point, clearly there's a much deeper mystery going on with Mr. Watsett. In season four, we learned that someone's favorite song can protect them from Vecna. That's why we heard running up that hill a lot in season four. And that makes this scene really confusing, where Henry gives Holly a stereo and a cassette tape to play

while she's living in the Creel house. Why would Henry give Holly something to keep Vecna away if he is Vecna? The answer might change everything we know about Stranger Things. Now, understanding Henry is where knowing about the play The First Shadow becomes really important. In Stranger Things Season 4, we learned that even before he was Vecna, Henry Creel was a creepy, violent kid. He killed his mom and sister. Murders at his father, Victor Creel was framed for.

And even before that, he was torturing and killing animals. You're weird. You're a weird guy. Yeah, he doesn't sound too innocent to me. True. Stranger Things 4 made it seem like Henry was a sociopath all along, and the Vecna was just the form he took after Elle sent him into Dimension X. But the first shadow revealed that Henry's story was a little more complicated than that, and Season 5 is doubling down on that complication.

So you know that moment where Henry looks genuinely terrified of the cave that Max is hiding in? That's because that cave is where Henry first encountered the Mindflayer. Now we've already seen just how much the Mindflare corrupt someone. Take Billy in season 3, for example. Billy was a jerk before he came in contact with the Mindflare, but he went completely dark side as soon as the Mindflayer took control. We see proof of that when Billy uses his brief lucid moment, thanks to Ellis' help with access in his memories, who sacrificed himself to the Mindflare and apologize. The same is true of Henry.

The first shadow showed us that Henry wasn't actually evil until after the Mindflayer got a hold of him. Then he killed his mom and his sister and wound up in Hawkins Lab with Dr. Brenner, his new and the rest, at least some of what we know, is pretty much history. Henry, being corrupted by the Mindflare, instead of just plain evil, has led to theories that Vecna and Henry, or Mr. Watsett, might actually be separate characters in this new season. Say what? Vecna, the fully Mindflare-controlled villain,

and Henry, the part of him that wasn't corrupted and is trapped inside of his own memories. That seems like a bit of a stretch. I know it sounds that way, but listen, between the play and the first four episodes of season 5 and some hints that the actors have dropped, it doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. This might even explain why Henry gave Holly music. Maybe he was trying to protect her.

Yeah, but, you know, he's still kidnapping kids. Oh, even if this theory is true, Henry is still 100% wrong. But he might just believe that he has a good reason for what he's doing to these kids. And that's where time travel comes in. Time travel. See, there's been something weird going on with Vecna in time since he was introduced in season four. For one, the sound associated with Vecna is a distorted clock chime. This is how season four confirmed that Vecna.

Vecna had temporarily succeeded in killing Max. The people who are cursed by Vecna from Chrissy to Max also see a grandfather clock. Now these might have been hints all along about what Vecna really wanted. So walk with me here. We know that Henry wasn't born evil. He was infected by the mind flare. And Henry's life didn't get any easier from there. We saw in season four that even when he was older, Henry was being tortured by Dr. Brenner in Hawkins Lab. He'd also had his powers restricted until El removed his Soteria, so he was as trapped as any of the Hawkins Lab kids. It would make a lot of sense if what Vecna slash Henry really wanted was to go back in time to before he encountered the mindflayer. Clearly, that experience was traumatizing based on his reaction outside that cave. It's a

weakness we've never seen in Henry or Vecna before. Now, it's tough to say whether Henry actually has any remorse, but this would also mean that his mother and sister wouldn't die. Stranger Things Five has also dropped some major hints that time travel is exactly where the plot is headed, including with Henry's brand new name. Mr. Watson? The name Mr. Watsett is taken directly from the book A Rinkle in Time, which has a minimal. Mrs. Watson who helps the children travel through time. Also, Mrs. Watson isn't a villain. She's someone who is genuinely helping the kids.

Henry is a master manipulator, so he could be using this character's name to trick Holly. After all, we know she knows this story. But there are just too many connections to a wrinkle in time for me to believe it's only about Henry manipulating Holly. Holly even refers to the place where she and Max are trapped in Henry's memories as... Canazots.

A dark planet from the book. Now, the Duffer Brothers don't let us have anything easy, so we can't ignore that Camazots is also from Dungeons and Drawers. which Stranger Things is based on. That Camazots is an evil deity, which is also based on Camasots, the Mayan back god. Basically, the Duffers really love their multi-layered references. But Holly, reading a wrinkle in time, Henry using the name What's It, and this prison of Henry's memories being called Camazots, all suggests this story is key to what's really going on in season five. And what's the book about? Traveling through time to save the world from a terrible

evil. Now, I want to take a second and remind you guys we're having a massive holiday sale right now. We have brand new designs like the new Doug ornament where he looks like Snoopy from the Charlie Brown Christmas special. Happy Life Day, Bone Saw versus the Human Spider, a Fox Force 5 t-shirt, and that's my secret. I'm always working with the whole cunched over his desk. In addition, we have tons of huge deals on our merch store, 40% off all apparel, 15% off collectibles, buy three get one mug and pint glasses, buy two shirts, get one 50% off, and hoodies, hats and bags are all 25% off, 30% off all our Star Wars parody merch and superhero merch and storewide, all product is 25% off. We're running this sale for a little bit longer through the holiday, so if there's a screen crush shirt that you've always wanted, now is the time to buy.

Links are below. A wrinkle in time isn't the only time travel story getting plenty of attention this season. Back to the future, one of the most iconic time travel movies of all time, has also been referenced several times, with Robin telling Joyce about the flux capacitor and her using Doc's famous line. Great Scott! And come on, you're telling me Steve's car doesn't look a little bit like the Delorium. The biggest hint so far that time travel is Stranger Things' Final Destination, though, was Erica learning about wormholes in school.

Wormholes are neat because they allow matter to travel between galaxies or dimensions without crossing the space between. In fact, this was the second but much more subtle references to wormholes this season. In episode 3, Delightful Derek is building a tesseract, the very thing that opens a wormhole. So how do the kids tie them? Well, Will, Robin, Joyce, and Erica realize that Henry isn't taking kids at random. He needs 12. Eight more, if this is accurate, which brings him to a total of 12. Why 12? I don't know.

That's the question on everybody's mind. But Vecna's calling card may already have given us the answer, 12 kids for 12 hours on a clock. When Will draws what he saw in a vision with the kidnapped kids attached to spires, it also looks exactly like the wormhole that Erica's teacher, Mr. Clark, drew. Henry's exact plans for the kids are still a mystery,

but this visual hint feels like a pretty big indicator that time travel is the show's next step. And season five explains why he would want that. Max probably meant that it was a prison made by Henry and for them, but I think she's wrong about that. I think this is actually a prison for Henry, a place where he has been trapped since the mineflayer took over.

Even if this version of Henry isn't corrupted, that might be enough to make him steal a dozen kids to try to open a wormhole and make it so he never encountered the mindflayer at all. Unfortunately, there is a much darker possibility. The first shadow confirmed that the mind flayer grows more and more powerful the more it consumes. Vecna might not be trying to escape. He might be trying to open a wormhole

to let the mine flare loose on the entire planet to eat a bunch of people. there is also a third possibility here. It could be that Mr. Whatzett, who is the good part of Henry's personality, is trying to keep the kid's psyches away and insulated from the Mind Flares control. And there's other questions here, too, like why Henry would go charging after Max if this version of him was not corrupted by the Mind Flair. But I'm not too worried about that yet. With four episodes left in the finale being movie link, the show has a lot of time to explain. Now, in addition to whatever is going on with Henry, there's also some seriously weird stuff happening with time in general this season, and I don't think that's an accident. I don't believe in coincidences.

The Duffers can say that they just forgot certain details, but there's a bit too much going on for all of these to be mistakes. And come on, guys, you've had a decade to get this right. So let's talk about some of these inconsistencies. First up is the fact that Will's age and birthday have both changed in the show. In season one, Will's birthday was established as March 22nd. Do you know what March 22nd is? It's your birthday. But in season four, when Mike visits Elle and spring break and they go to a roller rink, guess what day it is?

That's right, March 22nd. But no one was celebrating or even mentioned Will's birthday. This isn't a character slip-up or a storyline where Will's friends forgot his birthday. According to the Duffers, this was just an accident. So let me get this straight. The Duffer Brothers, everybody in the writer's room, and all the actors failed to realize that Mike was visiting on the exact same date that the show had already established was Will's birthday. I'm not buying it.

This isn't the only weird thing about Will's timeline. When Will went missing in season one, he was clearly identified as 12 years old. This season, Joyce said he was 11 when he went missing. What kind of mother doesn't check on their 11-year-old boy? Now, again, I'm not buying this was a simple mistake. That is a pretty important detail, and there's no way Joyce would misremember how old her son was when he went missing and almost died. It is possible that Will's garbled timeline has something to do with the upside down being frozen in time. We learned in season four that the upside down is stuck on November 6, 1983, the day that Will went missing.

We're in the past. And not for nothing, but November 6 was also the date of Joyce's performance of Oklahoma. Now, if you've seen the show, you know that this wasn't really a performance of Oklahoma. It was part of a whole other plot line, but most importantly, it's the day that Dodd Dr. Brenner took Henry to the lab for good. So we don't think it's a coincidence that Joyce's son Will was kidnapped on this same day, November 6th. Again, we're seeing the recurring importance of dates and time. And we still don't know why this happened or what it means,

but maybe the upside down isn't the only dimension that had its time knocked off course. It would actually make sense if Hawkins was having its own issue with time because Hawkins and the upside down are now so closely linked. Heck, maybe this will even help explain why Holly suddenly looks so much different and so much older. In fact, do you even know how old your daughter is? I don't know. Are this seems kind of far-fetched to me? I know it sounds far-fetched, and I don't blame you for thinking that. But it is important to remember that this is the same show that brought Dr. Brenner back to life,

revealed that Vecna was also won and sealed up devastating riffs across town with some metal. So never say never on the wacky shit they do in the show. But the theory that Henry slash Vecna isn't the real big bad, but rather another victim of the Mindflayer, has a lot of legs to stand on. Even two of the most important Stranger Things actors, Jamie Campbell Bauer, who plays Vecna, and Noah Schnap, who plays, who plays Will, have made some comments to suggest that our feelings about Vecna are about to change. Actually, it seems like Noah Schnap almost got himself in trouble by discussing who he thinks is the

most misunderstood villain of the show. Lucky Vecna. Really? Because like... No, shut up. Oh. That's it's it's Millie Bobby Brown's reaction to what Noah was about to say that really raises some questions. Saying that Vecna is misunderstood at this stage would be pretty surprising. But the fact that Millie was so worried about potential spoilers suggests that these final four episodes,

four episodes are going to shed a lot more light on Henry's past, a lot more sympathetic light, perhaps. That would almost certainly mean connecting to the first Shadow's revelation that Henry was corrupted by the mindflayer, as well as an explanation of Henry's emotional reaction to seeing the cave in season five. And if Henry's story really is a tragic one, that he's probably not kidnapping kids just to torture them. He might be willing to use them to try to go back and change things. I mean, he's clearly still obsessed with his family home, so it's safe to assume that he's not at peace with what happened to his family. comments, as intentionally vague as they are, also hint that the version of Henry that we're

seen isn't the Vecna that we know. This is a presentation of Henry. This isn't necessarily like him as he is now because now doesn't exist for him. Particularly, Jamie's saying now doesn't exist for Henry and that there is a clear cutoff in his humanity supports the idea that Mr. Watsett is actually different from Vecna. If that's the case, then the part of Henry that wasn't corrupted by the Mindflayer is trapped in his mind. and we think we know what Henry thinks is going to free him.

It's time. So will we be seeing time travel in Stranger Things? Obviously, we won't know for sure until the show is over, but a wormhole, a tesseract, back to the future, a wrinkle in time, and a whole lot of clocks can't all be red herrings. They were a red herring, thank you. Big shout out to Liz Declan who wrote this video. You can find her social links down below.

And we want to know what you think, is time travel going to be in Stranger Things, or is this just too darn strange of a thing to happen in this show? Wow. Let us know your thoughts down in the comments, or you can add me on Twitter, Blue Sky Thread, or on our free to join Discord server. And if it's your first time here,

please subscribe, smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie.