ScreenCrush: The Podcast! - When is Robert Downey Jr's Dr. Doom Going to Appear First in the MCU?

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

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Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. New mask. Same task. Hey, welcome back to Screen Crush. I'm Ryan Erie. Now, we all know that Dr. Doom is coming to the MCU in Avengers Doom's Day and Avengers Secret Wars.

But could we be seeing him even sooner than that? Remember, Marvel's last Big Bad, Thanos made several appearances prior to his big debut in Avengers Infinity War. So it stands to reason that we'd get a glimpse at Doom before his big debut in the Avengers movies. And we think that we might know which films we can expect Robert Downey Jr. to show up in in Phase 6. Phases 4 and 5 did a lot of setup for Kang the Conqueror, laying the groundwork for him to serve as the Big Bad of the Multiverse saga. But with Marvel turning away from the Kang story and embracing a new villain in Doom, we have a pretty short runway for them to begin setting up the greatest Marvel villain of all time. Now, granted, we are all super familiar with Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark in the MCU.

So that certainly helps with the setup for Dr. Doom, considering he'll be a variant of Tony. Now, a little later, I'm going to have Colton, the guy who's eternally trapped in our tiny TV, but doesn't know it so please don't tell him, he's going to come on to explain all of that. But first, let's run down all of the movies and shows that we have coming our way before Avengers Doom's Day, and we're going to discuss which one's Doom is most likely to show up in. And hey, before we get started, I'm going to remind you guys of our awesome MCU-inspired merch at Screencrushmerch.com. And I am so excited to finally get to show you guys our new awesome Doom parody shirt. I hate you 3,000 showing a mashup of Tony's mark one armor in Doom's Cow on a Polaroid.

This is a set to go with our somehow RDJ return. And this other brand new shirt, Tony as God, granting life to Ultron on the Sistine Chapel ceiling. We also have a brand new screen crush collection with items like nerd, never-ending rewatching disorder, that's your mom like the THX logo, and our rated SC for breakdowns analysis, Easter eggs, and your mom. We love designing merch for you guys and shopping our merch store is the best way to support our channel. And if you really like these new designs, we're about to add a ton more.

So, subscribe now to our merch store newsletter so you get early access to our new holiday products and deals. Now, back to what I was saying. Now, let's start things off with Captain America, Brave New World. You're not Steve Rogers. You're right. I'm not. We think a key mission of this Captain America movie will be to cement for audiences that Sam Wilson is the new Captain America. And perhaps even the new leader of the Avengers. It's even been speculated that this movie will feature Sam Wilson reforming the Avengers for the first time since end game.

Now, I don't believe that Brave New World will be a multiversal heavy movie like Spider-Man No Way Home, Quantum Mania, or Deadpool and Wolverine. I do think, though, it will still serve as a very pivotal film for the Multiverse saga and setting up things for the next Avengers film, Avengers Doom's Day. The Multiverse saga has seemed a little directionless, but one consistent thing it's had going for it is the overall theme of choice, and how the choices you make can completely alter who you are in this grand multiverse. At some point, we all have to choose between what the world wants you to be, who you are. Even shows like Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which had nothing to do with the multiverse, still played heavily into that theme by showing both Sam and Bucky struggling with their own identity and who they want to be. Bucky being haunted by his past as the Winter Soldier and with Sam trying to fill the shoes of Steve Rogers. So I think the Brave New World will also play into this theme of choice and how certain decisions made made Doom Reality as we know it.

Or they could save reality. Brave New World could serve as the film that reassembles the Avengers as the only line of defense that will be able to stop Universe 616, six's impending Doom. You know, the arrival of the new multiversal conqueror, Dr. Doom. In Infinity War, the Avengers failed because they weren't united following Captain America's Civil War. Tony made that crystal clear in endgame. I said we'd lose. You said, we'll do that together too. Guess what, Cap, we lost. And you weren't there. Sam, convincing the Avengers to embrace their heroic selves and to reform the team and stay alert of the looming threats to their world would not only show Sam as a true Captain America level leader, but this preemptive assembly,

echoing that of Tony Stark's dream of a suit of armor around the world could be the one thing that gives the Avengers a fighting chance come Doomsday. Now, I don't think that Doom is going to be in the actual Brave New World movie, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we got a little tease in a post-credit scene, similar to that of Thanos in the first Avengers movie. Hello there, I'm here from the Sock of the Month Club. I brought you a sock. Oh, that's for me, thank you. You subscribe to a sock of the month club? Yeah, look at it. That's a good socky. Oh, Hi there, I have a sock here from the sock of the month club. Wait, but you were just here.

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media into the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse. Shows like What If are crucial to the overall story of the Multiverse saga, and they are actually canon to the MCU. The upcoming Spider-Man series takes place within the Marvel Multiverse in a universe where Peter Parker isn't recruited to become an Avenger by Tony Stark, but is instead recruited by Norman Osborne, aka the Green Goblin. We're anticipating that Dr. Doom and Spider-Man's dynamic will be a heavy focus in Doomsday and Secret wars. Tony and Peter had a close relationship in the Infinity saga, and with Doom sharing the same face of Peter's mentor, we can all safely assume that Spider-Man and Doom will have a very interesting dynamic going forward. In the MCU, Peter lost Tony. Well, first Tony lost Peter, but then in the end,

Peter loses Tony. So in order for this dynamic between Doom and Spider-Man to work, it would make sense that this Tony Doom had a similar relationship with Peter Parker from his home universe, and that that Peter Parker died. Now, I'm not suggesting that Robert Downey Jr.'s doom is from the same universe that friendly neighborhood Spider-Man takes place in necessarily, but it is possible. I love the idea of doom, scouring the multiverse for a replacement Peter for selfish reasons, similar to that of Dr. Strange Supreme. I think a key characteristic of this doom will be that he has fallen victim to the selfish nature of a pre-iron man Tony Stark. The Infinity saga was all about Tony Stark essentially combating his selfish nature and becoming a truly selfless hero.

This culminated with him sacrificing himself in endgame. He came a long way from this scene. I think I would just cut the wire. to this scene. And I am Iron Man. A Tony who is unable to live with his grief of losing Peter and who is a victim of his own attachments could be a key characteristic of this version of Tony going the route of Dr. Doom.

Hey, but person, the Russo brothers said pretty clearly at Comic Con did he be playing Victor von Doom, not Tony Stark? Are you sure he's a variant? Well, no one's sure of anything right now, but I think Colton has some thoughts on this, and then after he does his little spiel, we'll talk about the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man 4. But first, I'm going to take my break.

You don't get a break right in the middle of a video. You can't take a break right now, the break is for after the video ends when it cuts to me. Duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, what do you mean? I get to have a break. I have a Wally mug right here. It's my favorite mug in the world, and it's not fair. You never let me take breaks. Okay, so yeah, I don't understand how anyone could think that our DJ's doom isn't going to be a Tony Stark variant. We're in the multiverse saga. Series like Loki and films like Spider-Man, No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, and Quantumomania have been drilling into audiences' heads and to our heads the concept of

of variants. But sometimes people like you veer off the path the time peepers created. We call those variants. No, look, I completely understand that different actors can play different roles. You won't catch me saying that Cotton Mouth from Luke Cage and Blade are variants of one another. Nor do I think that Johnny Storm and Steve Rogers are variants. Avengers

Lehman! Sorry, what now? But when you get the guy who played the main hero of your previous saga to play the main villain of your new saga, a saga that is about the multiverse, there is a zero percent chance that Doom having the face of Tony Stark won't be a key part of the story that they are telling. And yes, the Rousseau's, they said that he will be playing Victor von Doom. And to that I say, duh, I don't understand how that's an argument against him also being a Tony Stark variant.

Variants do not have to share the same name. Hell, they really don't even have to share the same face. But let's take the Kangs, for example. They do all share the same face, but many of them have different names and they've lived very different lives. I mean, you have Victor Timely, Rammatut, Immortis, they all had different names and very different life stories, but they are still variants of the same multiversal being, that being, King. So we can get into the semantics of Doom being a Tony variant or Tony being a Doom variant, but the overall point remains that they will, without a shadow of a doubt, be variance of one another.

I assume they will have had very different lives, just like the variants we've seen throughout this saga. And Doom being a variant of Tony or vice versa will be a major piece to the story of Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret Wars. Even if we hear Doom like exclaimed that I am not Tony Stark, which is something I do think we'll hear, that doesn't change the fact that they still are variants of one another who have very different life experiences and went very different paths in life. He will be Victor von Doom in every sense of the word. I believe he'll be a worthy adaptation of that character, but we will have the additional layer of story by knowing that in other universes, this same being is the hero, not the villain. And I think that will be important

not only for us the audience knowing, but I think Peter Parker will realize that as well, and that will play a deep role in this rivalry that we are going to see in these next to Avengers movies. They are not going to treat this like a little fun gag like they did with Human Torch in Deadpool and Wolverine, a gag that I loved, by the way, but this isn't a gag. And it won't be like a coincidental double casting like with Mahershala Ali. This was intentional. Not only because, yeah, RDJ is beloved by MCU fans, but because it will play a crucial role in the saga, in the movies, in the story. You know what? Fine. I won't take my break in the middle of a video. You win. Good. It's Ashton builds character. All right. So you guys know

that I'm not crazy about them casting Robert Danny Jr. as Dr. Doom. No disrespect to him. Sure, he'll be a great Dr. Doom. But to your point, Colton, I do agree that Doom will be connected to Tony Stark. But I don't want him to be, but that's a conversation for another time. Doom and Tony being connected does, however, give us hints of what to expect from him. And it can help us pinpoint which movie or show will see him pop up in first, such as a film like Spider-Man 4. But more on that in a bit, because it's still super unclear if Spider-Man 4 will be pre-or-posed Doom's Day. Okay, so the next project would be Daredevil Born Again, and I think our friend Cameron Caskey put a best.

You know, Coldline, I've always wanted to see somebody throw a stick at Dr. Doom. So yes, I think it's super unlikely that Born Again has any mention or tease of Doom. But we should mention that Doom and Daredevil actually have had some tussles in the comics, so you never know. Fool, your reflex is a fast. Unfortunately, not fast enough. And that brings us to the final project of Phase 5, The Thunderbolts. Now, Thunderbolts is going to exist in the same vein as Brave New World.

This is a film happening in the more grounded political thriller wing of the MCU. So I'm not anticipating any major multiversal shenanigans. However, I do expect to see characters like Bucky and Yelena Bilova have big roles to play in Avengers Doomsday. So I won't be surprised if we see some sort of set up for their role in that film, perhaps a recruitment from Sam Wilson to join the new Avengers. Now we have to remember that Bucky and the 616 Tony Stark have a history. He killed Tony's parents. Did you know? I didn't know it was him. All through this saga, Bucky has been on a journey of process.

guilt, guilt for the things he did as the Winter Soldier. If anyone understands the consequences of choice, it's Bucky, a character whose choice was literally ripped away from him. And that can play into the theme of the Multiverse saga not only tackling choices our characters make, but the choices they were forced to make as a consequence of the world around them. The choices of others can create certain conditions that take away choice from others. And this then becomes an interesting commentary on choice versus free will. But my overall point is that Bucky is a great conduit for helping to carry this saga's overall theme. And I'd love to see him attempt to help Doom see the light. Doom could be a character who was faced with

certain obstacles in his life that turned him into this villainous tyrant, almost as if he had no choice in the matter. And Bucky, feeling guilty for what he took from his universe as Tony, he could feel obligated to help save Doom from himself. Following Civil War, we didn't really get to see any follow-up on that tension between Bucky and Tony. So, continuing the story with Doom and Bucky could be very interesting. And now we've arrived at Phase 6, and the first film of Phase 6 is the Fantastic Four. Say that again? Now, we should point out that there has never been a Fantastic Four movie that did not feature Dr. Doom. The Fantastic Four films that have gray star screens feature Doom as the main villain of the film. Do you really think

fate turned us into gods so we could refuse these gifts? Now, I don't think that Doom will be the villain of this Fantastic Four movie. It's looking like Galactus will be serving as the big bad for this one. But that doesn't mean that Doom won't make an appearance in this film. Forget the movies for a second and focus on the comics. While Doom has served as a foe for more than just the Fantastic Four, going toe to toe with Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Avengers, you name it, he is primarily the arch-nemesis. of the Fantastic Four, and more so of Reed Richards' Mr. Fantastic. Reed and Doom were academic rivals before they became superbeams,

and the Fantastic Four's origin story is very closely tied to Doom. You can't really tell one's origin without mentioning the other. But here's the thing. This Fantastic Four movie isn't an origin film. They'll be a pre-established team, but I think we have to get a few mentions or flashbacks here and there detailing their past. And in those mentions, I think we'll get vague references to Reed's old colleague, Victor von Von Doom, both likely being prodigies.

Maybe we'll even get to see some photos. of them together where Doom's face is kind of obscure, kind of like Peter Parker's and Deadpool and Wolverine. And then, come the end of the film, we can see Reed pick up a frame picture of the two, and that's when we see Robert Downey Jr.'s doom for the first time. Maybe a little airy remix of the Iron Man theme. It'd be an awesome way to reveal Robert Downey Jr. as Doom in the films themselves. And what better time than the first film of Phase 6? Now, as for the remainder of Phase 6, we don't actually have any other confirmed spots for this phase apart from Doom's Day in Secret Wars. But we do know a few projects that are coming. Now, there is, of course,

Spider-Man 4, which we'll talk about here in a sec. And we also have the long-awaited Ironheart. Now, Ironheart has been completed for a while now, and the show has just been sitting on the shelf waiting to be released. In the comics, Riri Williams is a major Iron Man fan, and she is actually mentored by an AI hologram of Tony Stark. Now, while I'm not completely sold on the idea of having a full-blown Tony Stark AI featured in Ironheart, like, I just think the implications that get a little bit wonky. But I do like the idea of R-Rearie having a collection of Tony stark videos with him tinkering around in his lab. And those videos are where she learned about the Iron Man style tech. And she watched those videos to give her help to create her own suit.

We could show Riri as the ultimate fan girl of the fallen hero. And then the first time she actually gets to meet him in person is a face-to-face encounter with Dr. Doom. And that brings us to Spider-Man 4, which Tom Holland recently confirmed is happening. And it's going to be released on July 24th, 2026 between Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret Wars, which means that Spider-Man 4 will in all likelihood take place on Battleworld, or more specifically, the void from Loki and Deadpool and Wolverine. Right, why is that again? Well, because we've theorized before that doomsday will probably end with the multiverse collapsing, and the Avengers landing in the void at the end of time, similar to how in the Secret Wars comics they land in Battleworld, which is just

a combination of various worlds, exactly like the void. We here at Screencrush, we're personally pulling for a more grounded Spider-Man story in Spider-Man 4, but Colton made some decent points in this video as to why Spider-Man 4 would be a better served as a multiversal movie, And then I explained to him why he's wrong. Be sure to check that video out. It's a lot of fun. Oh, and by the way, we are going on tour with our live show and coming soon to a city near you.

Oh, what happens at a live show? Oh, man, we're going to say all the things they won't let us say on YouTube, and we're going to have nerdy debates. Like, for instance, I like Joker, too. We're also planning special guests, exclusive videos, merge, trivia, but most importantly, I just want to meet you guys live and in person. We did a live show in February,

and it was so much fun to just be surrounded by our fellow nerds. Some of you are not good-looking peels. Or like a mini-com. Comic-Con? Exactly. The full list of tickets and dates are below. We have two shows coming up in December. They're going to be a lot of fun, so buy tickets now before they sell out. Now, back to what I was saying. So, if the next time we see Spider-Man is in Avengers Dooms Day, then that will likely be when we see Peter come face-to-face with Doom for the first time. And I can only imagine how traumatic it will be for Peter to see the face of his old mentor committing these heinous acts

and perhaps even destroying all of reality. Peter will be in a really dark place, perhaps finding himself completely alone in the void, assuming the Avengers get separated. And who better to show up and help Peter through these trying times than his old buddies, Peter 2 and Peter 3? Assuming the entire multiverse is destroyed, it would make sense if these two Spider-Men also found themselves in the void. And maybe they even crash-landed in the same part of the void, similar to how Deadpool and Wolverine crash landed in the 20th century Fox area of the void, meeting characters like Chris Evans Human Torch from other Fox films, other Fox era villains, and even the 20th century Fox statue. The same was true for Loki when he landed in the void. He found himself

surrounded by his fellow Loki's. So it makes sense in canon that the Spider-Men would also land in the same rough geographical area. This then opens the door for Peters 2 and 3 to help Peter 1 reconnect with the Avengers and then face off against this multiversal variant of his old mentor. Peter could even reference back to No Way Home and how if not for Peter 2 and Peter 3 he would have gone down a very dark path. And now he wants to try to be that helping hand to save Doom from himself. So I want to give a special shout out to Colton Ogburn for writing this video. And I'm curious, where do you guys think Dr. Doom will pop up first in the MCU? Will they wait until Doom's Day to give him his on-screen debut?

Or will they use these upcoming projects to tease his big arrival? Let me know in the comments below, or you can at me on Twitter, Blue Sky, or Threads. Or you could go to our Discord, which the link is for in the description. Our Discord's a lot of fun. We're on there all the time, nerding out together. You should check it out. It's totally free. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Erie.

Thank you.