Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #240: Interview with Luca de la Torre

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

Heracles Almelo midfielder Luca de la Torre, hoping for a USA call-up this week, talks about the evolution of his game under Frank Wormuth, the Fulham years, the key to ball security, and his ability to operate on the half-turn between the lines. A cerebral guy, obviously passionate about the game. support Scuffed on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedsign up for our weekly newsletter: https://scuffedweekly.substack.com/ join the Discord: https://discord.gg/X6tfzkM8XU buy our merch: https://my-store-11446477.creator-spring.com/drop us a question at this link and we’ll try to answer it: https://forms.gle/vEatDVE6wsMzekep8 Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuffed podcast. I'm Adam Bells in Georgia. With me is Greg Velasquez in Iowa. We talk about U.S. men's soccer. Our guest today is Luca della Torre, the San Diego native and central midfielder for Heracles, Almello, and the Dutch Air Divisi. Luca, welcome to the podcast, and thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. My pleasure.

So I'm going to ask some of my own questions and sprinkling some questions from scuffed listeners. But first off, how are you feeling? What's the mood at the club right now? Got to draw over the weekend? Um, yeah, I'm feeling good. It's not where we really want to be at this point in the season. Um, but we've, have, uh, you know, three games undefeated now. So, yeah, we're kind of moving in the right direction now.

Hopefully we can start picking up points in the coming months. Now, Frank Warmuth, the coach at Heracles, was the DFB's, the German Federation's head of coaching courses for a decade. What's it like, what's it like working under him? First of all, and I have like sort of a second part to that question. It's been really good for me, to be honest. I think that the main thing is kind of the level of intensity that he demands from players, where when I got here, I kind of knew I had to raise that part of my game

and also just defensive like discipline as well, where if you don't have that, then he's just not going to play you. So that really made me kind of improve that area of my game to a point now where I feel like I'm almost a completely different player than I was two, three years ago. Huh. So how do you do that? How do you change? It's just a matter of willpower and awareness to do it.

Yeah. I think you have to be willing to work hard and sacrifice, which I think I always happen as a player. And then you just have to learn, you know, how to defend your role in defending as in the team. which was kind of the part that took a little bit longer, especially with the position change for me. Yeah, let's talk about the position change.

When did he decide to move you into the midfield? Was it pretty much right off the bat when you... Yeah, so I remember the second day I got there. They signed me as kind of a wide player, and he told me that he sees me as a number eight, not as a winger. The second day? The second day, yeah. And for me, I really agreed with that.

I felt like I was kind of pushed out wide at Fulham because I was a little bit smaller and quicker and technical. And in England, they kind of like big midfielers that win a lot of headers and stuff. So I played wide at Heracli's for the first half of the season around. And then in January, I switched to kind of more a number eight role. And that's when my performances really started improving. That would have been January 2021? Beginning, yeah. Beginning of last year.

Yeah. Okay. So you did consider yourself a midfielder before that just sort of you were playing wing because that's where you fit in it in the Fulham system, I suppose. Yeah, I think I was kind of being played out of position. My whole youth national team career, I was always a number eight kind of up until the under 20s with top. But yeah, it's definitely the real.

that's like most most natural to me. So yeah, I enjoy it. It just feels like what I'm supposed to be doing. Cool. Well, your play style with Heracles, is that how you say it? Is that the correct way to say? That's right. Yeah.

Okay. Heracly seems to be one that pushes the game forward. And this is a question from Coach Beard in D.C., not the real coach beard for what it's worth. Your play style seems to like push the game forward with a lot of progressive passes and dribbles. Is this a style your, naturally inclined to or something that something else that you specifically worked on under

Wormouth and you know the coaches at Heracli's yeah I think it's you know part of just my like upbringing as a footballer it's always play forward whenever you have the option to unless the guy you're passing to has has no option to keep the ball then you always play forward because that's always you know the best thing to do even if you go forward and then you come back then there's space on the other side usually. So, yeah, it's just always been kind of ingrained in me, I think. I remember at Fulham having like a Scottish coach in the reserves, Peter Grant, the Celtic legend.

And, yeah, he was always on about playing forward and playing forward and playing forward. So, yeah, that's what I try to do whenever I get the ball. You mentioned it briefly, but can you give us the Cliff's Notes version on your sort of your football upbringing, like who instill in, and still, and you a love for the game. Okay. So my dad is Spanish and my mom is American. So growing up in San Diego, I didn't really have the option to play American sports.

Like my dad was just football from the beginning. And so I played, yeah, I think on two different teams like three or four games a week, my whole childhood, right, growing up. up until I was 15, and then I had the option of going to residency in Florida or going to Fulham and being a part of the academy. And I felt like Fulham was the better option for me. So I went for that, and I spent seven years at Fulham. I played my way through the academy into the first team, made appearances in the first team. And then I moved to Heracles, and I've been here for one year and a half now.

It did seem like you were at Fulham for a long time, at least to me as a fan. And I wonder, you know, if there were times in that time period where you had doubts about the path you were on. And could you reflect on that a little bit? Yeah, definitely. So I, let's see,

I started being a part of the first team setup when I was 18. I was kind of training every day with the first team traveling to games on the bench sometimes. And then I went away to the under 20 World Cup in Korea. And I had a good World Cup. And I came back to Fulham. They offered me a new deal, a three-year extension. That was a good contract.

And I thought, yeah, you know, this is my chance. So I took that. And then the next two years, I was unlucky with injuries, to be fair. I probably missed about eight months of football with two really bad muscle injuries, one to my hamstring and one to my quad. But still, even between those injuries, I was fit. I made appearances in the cup, quite a few appearances in the league. But also at a club like Fulham, they're a club that's always either spending money to get into the Premier League or spending money to stay.

So when you're a young player and they're spending 100 million pounds in the summer window, to be honest, you don't really have a chance. You can do well in training. you can do really well in training, but it's really difficult. So I was pushing a lot during that period to go on loan, which Fulham wasn't interested in. They kind of told me to my face that for the money we're paying you, you're a very good player. To replace you, we would have to pay someone more money. And so we're happy to keep you here as a squad player and be a part of training, you know, almost like just be a mannequin for us. Which, yeah, you know, I wasn't happy about.

but when you're a player and you have a contract, you don't really have a choice, you know. Like if I refuse to train, they'll say, okay, you can go train with the under 18s for the rest of your contract. And then good luck finding a club when you come out of that, you know. So I did kind of my time there. I ran my contract out.

And then, you know, still worked hard through it. I played games for the reserves when I could. I trained as hard as I could. And I think that, you know, put me in the position when I finally moved. to Heracles, that I wasn't like, you know, I still had belief in myself and my ability. So, yeah, it wasn't an easy time, but I definitely, I feel like became a pretty strong person for it. You soldiered through it.

Yeah, exactly. Made the most of a tough situation. Now, fans of the U.S. national team love to argue about the merits of what. league versus another. I'm sure you see some of this on the internet, on the internet. But you've made it, like you mentioned, you've made appearances in the championship,

EFL Cup, a lot of appearances with the Premier League reserves. And to me, the Air Divisi is often really pleasing to the eye. How do you think about the league in comparison to the other competitions you've played in, you know,

as someone who plays in it every weekend? Is it, like how does it compare to the championship? for instance. Yeah. So I think it's true that in Holland they have this idea of total football where clubs want to play good football, even if they will lose games through taking more risks. And I would say in the championship especially, you have more teams that are willing just

to play direct and put everything they can into the box, you know, throw ins, goal kicks, it doesn't matter, just put it in the box and hope for the best. So you don't get that as much here. but I also feel like that, you know, most teams kind of play the same nowadays. Like there's teams that press high and there's teams that sit back and counter. And you have teams that do those things in the Eradivisa

and you have teams that do those things in the championship. So, yeah, I think the football is kind of the same everywhere you go, to be honest. Huh. Okay. David in Indianapolis asks, for those on the Discord, his name is more, more buildings and food. He asks, as a midfielder,

does your offensive mindset change when you're playing with a back three versus a back four? Do you play more aggressively when you have an extra centerback behind you? That's a good question. It really depends on the team you're playing against and the players you're playing with.

When we played a back three this season, it's usually to play against another team that's using a back three so that we can go one for one in pressing. In that case, personally, I think I'm more comfortable playing with the back four just because that's usually what we do is a 4-4-2. But, yeah, I think that tactics aren't the most important thing in football at all. It's more about players just kind of taking responsibility

and finding solutions on the pitch. for themselves. Yeah, talk about that a little bit more. That's a, that's a, that's a fascinating thing to say. It's more, it's less about tactics. It's more about players taking individual responsibility. Is that, is that how you've always thought about it? Or is that like a new insight for you?

Yeah, I think that when I'm playing in a game, uh, so to a certain extent, you always have to do what the manager wants you to do. You know, if he wants you to stand here and you go stand over. there, then he's going to sub you off, right? But if you're focused on doing exactly the tactical job all the time, then I think your own game can suffer. So for me, the most important thing is kind of just being free in my head and trusting the pictures I see and like the instincts I have when I'm on the pitch because I'm confident in that and I have belief that I'll, you know, I can find solutions. So yeah, for me, that's the most important thing is to be in that mindset. And

always, you know, use the tactics that the coach is giving because that way the team plays better, you know, and you're on the same page with everyone, right? But that's the way I think about it. So you said your game has completely changed over the last two, three years. You said that right at the beginning of the conversation. Was there a moment where you, were that sort of clicked for you? And if so, could you describe that moment? I mean, I'm interested in anything you have to say on the topic, honestly,

but I'm just trying to find some avenues for that. Okay. Yeah. So I think when I was playing wide, I always felt like I was playing out of position, right? I'm not really a winger. Like, I don't want to run one-on-one at a guy all day and try to cross. You know, I want to be on the ball all the time, right?

Like, I feel like, you know, the team plays better if I have the most touches on the ball, right? That's just like the belief I have, you know, because I feel like I know where the ball needs to go and I can put it there. So when you play wide, you don't get as many touches, right? You're expected to have fewer touches but more impact in terms of, you know, shots, crosses, creating chances. So I like to be more of, I guess, a connector to be on the ball a lot and, you know, to always show quality. quality, right? It doesn't matter if it's like a really simple play. It can look like a really simple play to someone. You know, just receiving the ball and passing it to an open teammate, but is like the pass to the correct foot? Is it with the right weight? You know, did you do it in two touches or three touches? Like I think all that stuff is is really important. And like, you know, taking pride in that too as a midfielder, right? You want to be like a 99% player where like every action you have. is the right thing and it's done correctly, which is impossible, right?

But it's something right. You want to strive for. Let's see. As you may know, there is a three-game World Cup qualifying window coming up. How do you feel about the likelihood that you'll be involved? Yeah, I really hope that I will be, you know.

I feel like I'm in good form. I feel like I'm playing well. I know that I'm fit. and some other players that play in the MLS, for example, aren't in season. So I think I have good chances. But yeah, we'll see. I guess we'll find out later this week, huh? Yeah.

Alex in Chicago asks, and I'll caveat this by saying, you know, you have talked about some of the feedback you've gotten, but he wants to know what kinds of feedback have you gotten from Greg and the national team coaching staff to improve your game and potentially get called into future camps, including this one. You mentioned some stuff about transition, I think, in an interview late last year. Maybe you could rehash that and talk about any other feedback you've gotten.

Yeah, that was, yeah, that was. So I think what I really like about Greg's like management style is that he's always very honest with me about the way he sees me in the group and where I stand. And also I feel like I can be honest with him, which is really important because that's not always the case with managers. So like, for example, even like the conversation about the gold cup in the summer, right? We spoke like, you know, maybe two or three times over the phone and we understood each other, right? Where I felt like this was the best thing for my career and he respected that. So that's really good. In terms of like things to improve, I don't get so much of that from the national team staff.

because I think, yeah, when you're there, it's more about getting the most out of you, not necessarily, you know, helping you improve as a player. Yeah. Was there was, I mean, there was some conversation about, like, he didn't think, I'm not trying to, like, create controversy

where there is none, but he didn't think, he thought maybe transition moments weren't your strength, but you had a, I don't know, a different view. Like, you feel like you're pretty good in transition. Yeah, that was his opinion about why, you know, or his reasoning for not calling me up to the last camp, which, yeah, you know, as a player you just accept, right? Yeah. In my view, yeah, I'm good in transition. In his view, other players are better, and yeah, that's the way it is.

there's nothing really you can do as a player but you know accept it and yeah work harder and be better so yeah there's definitely some subjectivity and assessments of soccer players yes yeah you would probably agree with that um jared in o'clair wisconsin asks you got called in by sarikin dave sarikin uh back in 2018. What were your impressions of that camp and how have things changed in the locker room from the coach on the field since then? Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, Serra Chin was kind of a weird time, to be honest.

Also, like for me, because I think I was, I just turned 20 that year and I'd been a part of Fulham's first team, but I was kind of injured the first half of the season and I think I maybe made like six appearances in the league. and then we got promoted and I got called up and made my debut and to be honest I didn't really feel like I deserved it I was kind of like looking around like

you know I didn't even play this season for the first team and I'm here so it was it was kind of a weird time to be honest but yeah it was definitely a big deal making my debut you know when I was 20 even if it was you know just a friendly kind of in a transitional period

As far as like the difference in the setups go, I think that, yeah, the setup now is really like top notch at U.S. soccer in terms of like the staff and the support staff and everything, it's, you know, the best I've ever seen. It's really, really good. Cool. If you, did you watch the, I assume he did, but did you watch the win over Mexico and the draw against Jamaica? Yes, I did.

Yeah. What did you think, you know, people, we've spent a lot of time on this podcast talking about it and everybody talks about it. But like, what do you think went wrong against Jamaica? Why couldn't we put together a cohesive performance there? Yeah, I don't know. It's always difficult when you're watching from outside to like diagnose something like that. Yeah. I think that Concaf is difficult.

I've gone through under 17 World Cup qualifying and under 20 World Cup qualifying. So obviously it's not the same as the first team, but kind of a similar idea. And like the feeling I had in those games was that as America, you're always going to be the better team. And it's kind of on you to like bring the quality to the game.

And it's difficult sometimes to not like play down to the level of the opponent, especially if they're making the game hard for you, you know? So, yeah, I just, I know it's hard, right? Yeah. Okay. You had one goal and four assists in that U-20 World Cup, most assists in the tournament. Was there, I know you mentioned that you got a new contract from Fulham right after that tournament, but was there any transfer loan interests from other clubs right after that?

I mean, we're going back into the history books again, but Yeah, there was. I think from the Eridivisa there was, as well as New England Revolution with Brad Friedel, because he took that job there. Yeah, but at the end of the day, it just was never something that Fulham was interested in sending young players out alone.

And you see it with a lot of players. They really don't use that. to give their players experience. Tell us about where you live. Do you like it there? Yeah, Almelo, yeah. Yeah, so I lived in London for seven years, and then I moved here in the middle of the pandemic,

and this is quite small compared to London. So when I first came here, I was a bit surprised, but I really like it now. You know, my place is really nice, and the city is a little bit quiet. There isn't like a ton going on, but I'm just kind of in my football bubble, so it doesn't really make a difference to me.

Is it like the canals part of Holland, or are we talking just farmland around in the nearby area? I don't want to say anything that's going to get me in trouble. But yeah, it's like it's not near the big cities. So, you know, Amsterdam is about an hour and a half away. And Utrecht and Rotterdam are far away as well. So, yeah. Let's see.

Max in Golden, Colorado asks, what food do you miss most from San Diego? California burritos. Every time I go back, it's my first thing. I go and get a California burrito. And just Mexican food in general. There's no Mexican food in Europe. No burritos in Al Mello. No.

Unfortunately. What is it? What is it? A lot of fries with mayonnaise and stuff like that. Yeah, to be honest, like English food, Dutch food and German food is just all really bad. you know, it's it's not nice. But yeah.

Yeah. It's amazing they've all survived for so long. Jackie Choi in San Francisco asks, many fans noticed that right before you were called up to the USM&T for World Cup qualifiers. You posted that video of highlights and there, like, a lot of it was ball progression. Do clubs, U.S. soccer actually use social media for scouting or was this just a coincidence? And how do you use social media in your career as a soccer player? Yeah, it's a good question. So, yeah, like I like to repost things that I see about myself that are positive online, whether that's like an article or clips.

Because I feel like I play for a smaller club in Netherlands and not a lot of people are aware, you know, if I play well or if I don't play well. So I feel like it's the right thing to do to do a little bit of self-promotion. And also, like, I like the way I play football. You know, I like my style and I like to show it. So if I play really well, then, yeah, I like to post clips. As far as that being before the, when the roster was announced, that was a coincidence. That was probably my best game this season against RKC at home. And it was just right, I think, the day before the roster dropped.

So the next morning I just, yeah, I posted the video. And it kind of blew up actually. I think it had like 100,000 views. So that was surprising. But yeah, it's nice. We're out here, man. We're out here. Yeah.

And like, how do you think about social media in general, you know, as an athlete? Do you read a lot of the stuff out there? Do you deliberately not read it? what's what's your approach um yeah i'll look i'll look for things to repost after i play well um but other than that i avoid it uh i'm not really interested in you know i understand that people enjoy uh arguing about football and and things like that online um but i don't think that reading that really gives me any bad benefit in my in my career so I just avoid it yeah yeah something seems wise anything else you

would like to talk about anything you wish I had asked you um no I think I think that was good yeah no more questions well special shout out to Daniel Smith I'm going to give you give him an executive producer credit on this episode um What else? Let me think. Oh, yeah. Okay, one thing, one very specific thing is I notice your ball security is really good, you know, even though you're not like a giant person. And I wonder how much, how much ball security in your view is a technical matter, how much of it is a physical matter? Is it a mystery, like where the two meet? Can you talk about that?

I think it's like 99% awareness of knowing where pressure is coming from. Yeah, sure. If you're, you know, physically have 10Ks on the guy you're going up against, then maybe in a 50-50 you have an advantage. But if you don't know where he's coming from, then you're going to lose the ball every time. So I think for me, yeah, like I'm a little bit lighter, but I'm quicker and smarter.

So I have to use that to win duels in the middle, right? So yeah, for me, it's all about scanning and knowing what's going on around you. And that's really what football is, right? It's seeing pictures and finding solutions, you know, the best picture and the best solution. So, yeah, I really don't think that football is about being a better athlete than that guy you're going up against. It's just about being smarter. I mean, you look at the best midfielers in the world. They don't rely on their athleticism, really.

know, they rely on their, you know, being smarter and quicker. When I see, like when I was watching the highlights from the game on Saturday, there are several times where you're receiving the ball between the lines on the half turn. And I guess I wonder, you know, how much of that is just like how you've played as a soccer player your whole life, or how much is it, how much of it is, you know, something you've specifically worked on recently, that efficiency with which you work on the half turn, you know, I think you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's a good question. I think that's something I picked up playing as a winger at full, because I'd always come inside

and then you're in those situations where you receive a line breaking class and you need to turn in one touch and accelerate. And I realized pretty quickly, like, that was something that I could do that other players couldn't. So when I was playing kind of more in like that role that's always between lines, I got quite good at that. And that's something I can still use in the position I play today because, you know, sometimes I'm between lines and sometimes I'm not.

But yeah, it's definitely like a skill that I have that I can use. Do you think about how valuable that might be for the national team? You know, without having to, you know, toot your own horn too much. Do you imagine that, imagine using that ability to help us break down a low block in Conca Calf? Yeah, I think that's a skill that is good anywhere, right? Yeah, I think that like when I played for the national team, the couple games, when I've come on, they've been quite open games because the other team's been chasing them

when I've been subbed on. So those are, you know, there's a lot of space on the pitch. So it's quite easy for me in those games to kind of turn and run with the ball. So, yeah, I think that I kind of showed that. quality in those those appearances um yeah most notably against jamaica right yeah yeah exactly all right man well uh good luck to you thanks for thanks for being here for this interview thank you yeah i enjoyed it thanks everybody for listening we'll see you