Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #261: An interview with former U.S. Soccer official Nico Romeijn

Episode Date: March 17, 2022

Romeijn was head of coaching education and chief sport development officer for U.S. Soccer before he left the federation to return to Holland in 2020. He spoke about the work he was involved in to revamp coaching education in the U.S., coaching philosophy, the challenges of growing the game in the U.S. and the way American soccer is viewed in the rest of the world.support Scuffed on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedsign up for our weekly newsletter: https://scuffedweekly.substack.com/ join the Discord: https://discord.gg/X6tfzkM8XU buy our merch: https://my-store-11446477.creator-spring.com/drop us a question at this link and we’ll try to answer it: https://forms.gle/rfzSEZJwsvnWSCxW7 Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuffed podcast. I'm Adam Bells in Georgia. With me is Greg Velasquez in Iowa. We talk about U.S. men's soccer. Our guest today is Nico Romaine, who worked at Soccer House from 2015 to 2020, first as director of coaching education and then as chief sport development officer before coming to work for U.S. soccer. He worked in coaching education for the Dutch Federation. Now he's back in his native Holland and a job for SEG, which is a big sports agency and consultancy. Nico, thanks for coming on the podcast. Great to be in the show, Adam. A couple questions about Holland first. Holland has qualified for the World Cup in Qatar. What's the feeling there about the team's prospects?

Yeah, so the first good thing is that we qualified, of course. You know, that's always tough. Tough competition when you're looking at Europe, you know, high-level countries. So it was, and we had that transition when you're looking at. had the coaches. So first we had at Kuhmann, then the Boor and now Van Ghaler again. So that's always, yeah, challenging. So but as always, high expectations over here. You know, we, as all the countries, I think we want to become world champion. You know, sometimes we were really close. but didn't succeed at the end.

So high expectations to be realistic. I don't know if we've got that team, but you never know. Yeah, I mean, you have two of the best centerbacks in the world for sure, right? Oh, yeah. Who's the? Yeah, a talented team, you know, a talented team. And you never know. It's a tournament, you know.

So in a tournament that can happen these things that you don't expect. Because at a certain moment, it are these one-off games. So, yeah, you know, when you look at that, yeah, there are these chances. And, yeah, we've got to actually we've got three, the three of the best defenders, I think, in Europe, maybe in the world. was the licht, I saw the licht yesterday playing for Juventus. Not a great game for Juventus, but he is also a great young defender. So you just told you told me before we started recording that your office looks out over the IACS training facility.

Is anybody practicing right now? Yeah, yeah, they are. They are. So yeah, at the left field, they are practicing and looking at it right now. and it's sunny, so it's a nice view, to be honest. So, yeah, it's great to look at that facilities, because it's a great facility. Yeah, I think I saw on LinkedIn, you were actually a teacher, like a secondary school teacher? I will give you my background in a nutshell, because I can talk about that for a long time.

So, yeah, when I was 12, I knew I wanted to become a physical education teacher. So I followed that pathway. And at the same time, I was a semi-professional player. Then I became that teacher. I worked for 20 years at a secondary school. Did my coaching licenses in the Netherlands, became a coach. And then after 20 years, I started to work for the Federation. And I could actually, I could marry my passions.

And my passions were, we call that football, but soccer and education. And that's also, yeah, when I, you know, I could develop myself in coaching education. And yeah, I would say develop that expertise when you're looking at coaching education. You're not working for U.S. soccer anymore, obviously. but it hasn't been too long since you were, you know, right there in the thick of it. For those who aren't tracking that sort of thing closely, could you just quickly explain what your jobs were at the Federation? And maybe even start by like what persuaded you to come over here and spend almost five

years in Chicago? Yeah, that's a good question. So, yeah, actually I got that call from U.S. soccer. I must say fully unexpected so a person from US soccer he called me and he asked if

if I was interested to work for US soccer of course my question was okay so what do you want me to do and he said yeah we want to we want to raise the level of our soccer so then we are looking for

great coaches. Then I said, so when you're looking for great coaches, you know, that that's, I don't think that's my expertise. And then he said, okay, but we are looking for actually someone who can educate these, these coaches. And then I said, oh yeah, maybe that's my expertise. So, so yeah, and then we had these follow-up conversations. I went to Chicago, talked with the people of the office and yeah, so at a certain moment, because it wasn't really easy, because my family stayed in the Netherlands, I thought, okay, so all the years, you're talking with these students and you tell them, get out of your comfort zone. And now it was my time to practice what I, you know, what I preached all these years. So I got out of my comfort zone and I,

I went to the U.S. A different culture. You know, I must say a great, great organization to work for, but very challenging when you compare a country as the U.S. with the Netherlands and Europe. Yes. Say more about that. What are the challenges of working in the, you know, soccer's central governing body in the U.S. versus in the Netherlands? I guess some things come to my mind immediately, but what are you? What are they to you?

Yeah, the first thing, you know, that I think that also comes to your mind is the size of the country. So that's a big difference because when you're looking at Europe, you know, the U.S. is much bigger than Europe. And so when you're talking about the Netherlands, that's a big difference. But actually the biggest difference working in the US compared to working in the Netherlands is that the Federation is overseeing everything that happens in soccer in the Netherlands. So when you talk about competition, when you talk about coaching education, you know, refereeing, all these things are more or less governed by the Federation. And when you're looking at the US, of course, the Federation is a big player when you're looking at the game. But you've got much more big players when you're looking at the game in the US. And that's a big difference because to get all the big players on the same page.

So I must say that that was something new for me. It was, again, you know, and I used that word a lot because I also felt it like that. It was really challenging. And it's, it wasn't and it's still not easy at it. Yeah. Well, who are the other big players besides the Federation? Yeah, the other big players are, of course, the MLS is one of the big players. You've got all these youth organizations as a US club soccer, you know, U.S. youth soccer.

and so on and so on. You've got United Soccer coaches. So all these organizations that are a part of the ecosystem when you're looking at soccer. And in the Netherlands, it's not like that at all, huh? I mean, it's just centralized. Yeah, of course. Of course, you've got different organizations

that are also involved in the game. but in a different way. And in the U.S., it's, yeah, you know, yeah, you really had to deal, and I say that in a positive way, because, yeah, all of them, they also looked at, yeah, what is best when you're looking at soccer.

Only what is best for one organization is not always best for the other organization. and especially not, and now I'm getting to the core of it, when you've got these business models also, you know, based on the game. And that is also a big difference when you're looking at the Netherlands and the US. So in the Netherlands, it's, of course, there is a kind of business model, but when you're looking at the federation and the other organizations involved, the player is always in the center.

And I think that that was not always the case in the US, because when you're talking about a business model, then you're also talking about revenue. And then there can be a conflict of interest. And I must say that that was, again, you know, challenging. I assume you're referring to basically pay to play and the pay to play development system i mean if you can call it a system in the u.s is that yeah of course you know the clubs they've got that they've got that business model but also when you're looking at

the organizations they also have their business models behind what they're doing and so so take for example also a college you know college is still a big part of your sports culture and that's okay

and it's changing I know that but you can ask yourself the question you know if when you want to develop you know the best players who can at the end win world championships for you

if the college system is the best system. And now I'm really looking at soccer. Yeah, yeah. You know, so when there is a three-month competition and these things. And I know that at the professional level, things are really fast changing. But at the women's side, I think it's still an important part of the culture. And that's again, you know, nothing wrong with that. But it's good to be aware of these things and that it is a part of the culture.

And I was aware of the fact also that I'm not going to change that culture. But then you also have to face these challenges. Because when you want to compete with the best of the world, world, you should also look at a system that will bring you to that level. And when that system is also, yeah, based on other, I would say, starting points than only looking at developing the best players. So looking at business models, then there can be that conflict. Well, you came into the Federation in 2015, which was a, I mean, the kind of a fascinating time because the development academy was kind of coming into its own as a, you know, as a development academy.

And I wonder what your, you know, what specifically did you work on? Like when you hit the ground, did you, did you help develop those grassroots coaching courses? Did you, did you oversee that? were you making the modules yourself? Or like how did how does that all work? Yeah, actually actually, you know, they appointed me to to look at the whole coaching education system. So from from the top to to the bottom. And of course, not all by myself.

Of course. with a team of other coach educators. So I also hired the people for that team. Then we started with creating a coaching education plan. But actually, my first task was to set up a pro license. Actually, that was the first task they gave me. And I must say that's how it started. Because we did that license with actually all MLS coaches and coaches of the Federation who worked for the U-20, the U-17 and so on.

but also Greg was a part of that pro license. And Ziggy Schmidt was a part of, you know, Big Legend, actually, was a part of that. Jason Kreis was a part of that. I think I've seen this photo. These were the people who took that licensing class. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

So doing that course. And also, I must say, yeah, all of them, They saw it as a course that really also helped them and supported them in their development as a coach. And they also, yeah, where are positive ambassadors. I must say that was really important for giving, I would say, coaching education a boost. Because as you know, after that, we made some, you can say, difficult decisions about real. revamping the courses.

But I must say that pro license helped us because these coaches and, you know, these coaches were coaches of name, Oscar, Pablo, you know, Jim. So, so, yeah. Jim Curtin, Jim Curtin, right? Yeah. Yeah, Peter, Peter from Kansas. So, yeah, these guys who are, yeah, I must say, influential guys when you're looking at. at the game. Of course, yeah. And they were positive, so they helped us also in developing also

yeah, the other courses. So you were, just to be clear, you were the one running that class, you were teaching that class. Is that right? Yeah, together with my colleague, Wim von Zvam, also a guy from the Netherlands. And we developed the course and we also ran the course. Okay. Who was the best pupil in that class? No, no, I'm not going to answer that question. Because, because all of them, they had their qualities and their strengths. Okay, fair enough. I mean, you know, not being a good pupil, I don't think, has ever stopped anybody

from doing something great, you know what I mean? So you mentioned revamping the system or the licensing courses. Can you talk a little bit about the decision to get rid of the, I guess, get rid of the D license and replace that with these these grassroots certificates. Yeah, so, so, so let's let's let's let's start actually looking at the big picture. Okay, please. Yeah. When you're talking about, actually about education in general and more specific about

coaching education. So when I started, I must say that. there was that foundation. You know, before me, they did already a good job when you're looking at the content, but also at the philosophy of the courses. But all of these courses were nine-day courses. And actually seven days of practical topics and theoretical topics and two days of a seven. And I think, you know, probably as we all know, it's difficult to change behavior in nine days.

And actually, when you're doing education, your ultimate goal is to change behavior. So people start a course and actually at the end of the course you want to see different behavior based on a profile. and in this case, the profile of a coach. So the first thing we said is when we really want to influence these people, when you're looking at their coaching behavior, we have to extend these courses. And actually, we also have to look at the model because when you've got these course meetings,

they must be able to put it into practice. So that's how we more or less, revamped the model. So it's having these course meetings. And in between we had these development periods. And during these development periods, they had to put it into practice. They gained new experiences and they took them back to the course. And then we did that education again, learning from each other.

We also thought that was really important. And then they went back to the club. And that was actually the model. And we applied that model actually at all levels. So it's at the pro license, at the A license, the B, the C. But also when you looked at grassroots, we also thought it must be really practical. But the big challenge, of course, when you looked at grassroots, is that you're talking about a lot of people.

And when you looked at the A license, yeah, we asked, you know, the coaches to fly to Kansas because there's the national development. We can't ask from these grassroots coaches to fly to Kansas. So that was the reason that we also, yeah, we developed that online course to make it really low, accessible. So we thought it's better that they do at least something than nothing. But what we really wanted to do was this blended course of having these practical sessions, but also these online sessions. So a bit of both. And that's why we also work together with all the state associations. We work together with the youth organizations. to get that network all over the US so that a grassroots coach could do his coaching education really close to his or her environment. And that is how we looked at that.

One thing I wanted to add, because of course we had a lot of criticism when we made these decisions. And I can understand that because we made it longer. We made it more expensive. You're talking specifically about the A license or the A and B. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because the grassroots, I don't. 20 bucks.

No, that's a big deal. But we also asked the question to, yeah, actually to the coaches. So do you think that teaching is a profession? and actually all of them said, yeah, we think teaching is a profession. Because we also ask them, when you bring your kid to a school, you want the teacher to have a license. Or do you want the teacher to say, you know, I've got a lot of experience in teaching because I was a really good student. And because I was a good student, I will be a good teacher. They said, what do you mean?

I said, okay, you've been a, you know, a high-level player. So does that mean that you will be a high-level coach? And that made them think. And that was also an important, I would say, reason and, you know, that we could change it. Because coaching is a profession. And when you are a grassroots coach, I know it's not a profession, but still your teaching. So you need to have, you know, knowledge, you need to have skills. Of course, on the basic level, you know, not on the level of the A license or the B license.

Because, because your first goal is that they must have fun. So how can you create fun, you know, when you're doing these sessions with these young kids? You need to have some knowledge about pedagogical principles, you know, how to set. up an exercise, how to involve all the kids, how to, you know, how to have these, these relationships on the level of these kids and not talking as an adult all the time, but, you know, trying to have some empathy when you're looking at their level of development, and phase of development. So, yeah, so that were the more or less the drivers also when you're you're looking at changing, yeah, grassroots courses.

I've taken a couple of those classes and of those online courses. And I do find them helpful. And it's interesting you mentioned that about, you know, pedagogy because it's, there were principles in there. There were almost as much about parenting as they were about coaching soccer, you know. Of course. And I did want to ask about that. There's a really heavy emphasis in those courses on player led.

or you know, the coach being a guide, the player sort of discovering on their own how to do things. Do you think this is something that should be adhered to kind of absolutely? Or is there kind of a balance to be struck between that sort of thing, not telling the, not shouting at the kid, telling them what to do? And then sometimes kids do need somebody to say, hey, make the run over here or, you know, strike the ball this way. How do you think about the balance between,

Those two things. Yeah. So for me, it's not a question that you cannot give any feedback, you know, because you can. And that's okay. Because, but it's more the other way around. So the game is there for the player and not for the coach. So the first thing you have to do is let them play. And based on that, of course, you observe.

and you also create these challenging situations for the players. So experience is also an important tool when you're looking at learning, give them the opportunity to experience, to make these mistakes. But when they make these mistakes, of course it's good also to involve them in looking for a solution. But there's nothing wrong also with giving them feedback. but it's not that when the game starts or the training session starts that the coach must start you know yelling at the players you have to go to the left you have to go to the right you know kick the ball no no you know let them figure it out themselves and based on what you see you know

you will add your value as a coach because because as a coach you should be yeah of added value you're not you're not the I would say the the main actor in this part you're the facilitator okay yeah that's great it's harder it's I find it's harder to um harder to harder to do in practice I coach a little U8 team it's just rec recreational soccer it's not high level or anything but it's it's I find myself sometimes in practice being like quit talking so much you know why are you talking so much because it just happens naturally I don't know yeah but it's it's it that's also So when you're looking at culture, and that I must say, you know, I'm really fascinated by the, I would say, the importance and the influence of cultures.

So also travel through Europe. I worked also eight years for UEFA, and I went to a lot of countries in Europe. And even when you're looking at Belgium, and Belgium is at the border of the Netherlands. They also speak Dutch in a particular part of Belgium. It's different. It's a different culture. So when you're looking at the U.S., I must say that in the U.S. there is this high sports culture. You know, when you're looking also at sports as basketball, baseball, American football.

But these are, these were, or these still are the leading sports. So when it was about coaching, also I think the soccer world looked at these sports. And these are sports that is more based on having these, yeah, these these plans. Yep. You know, these. And based on that plan, you're going to have these drills. And you, yeah, yeah, you drill your players more or less to. to walk in these patterns.

So it's more coach-led, I would say, than soccer. So it's a part of your culture. And there should be, and there's already, I would say, a change happening. That, yeah, for soccer, it's different. So take the good parts of all these other sports, but also look at the characteristic of soccer, and then it's a player sport because they have to make these decisions in all these unexpected situations, because you can never make all these drills based on all the possible situations. Because there is no situation book for soccer.

You know, when you think you've got all the situations, there will be a new one and a new one and a new one, because you cannot control the opponent. It's what makes the game so wonderful, really. I would say so. I would say so. Yeah. Well, let me just take a quick break to say, as you all know, we are an ad-free podcast, join the Patreon. The link is in the show notes. Nico, so we talked about briefly the pay-to-play system.

But can you just sort of take that one head on? To what extent do you think the cost of youth soccer hinders the potential of Americans in the sport? Yeah, of course it hinders, you know, because we should try to avoid everything that keeps players, kids, away from participating in the sport. And when that's, you know, pay to play, yeah, it shouldn't be, should not be a part of the sport. Because, yeah, it will be a hurdle for families, you know, to give their kids the opportunity to play the game. And when they play the game, they will play it a lot of times unorganized or not, you know, being a part of a club and the system. And I really think when you want to benefit out of, I would say, the number of inhabitants. Because when you, I think, you know, there are 350 million people in the US.

So you've got 17 million people in the Netherlands. So when you And of course When you've got a A higher number There will be more fishes I would say in the sea So when you want to

Yeah Get the opportunity to To use all the fishes You know To create that high level In soccer Then there shouldn't be a pay to play But again

then you're talking about culture, a business model. So when you looked at the DA, the Development Academy, we had these scholarships. And I'm sure also now clubs are looking how they can work on that. And for sure, the federation and the different youth organizations are, I think, looking at how they can deal with that. But it will be a hurdle for some kids and families to play the game. I mean, yeah, it's given the way the system has sort of evolved up to this point and the way the economy is structured in the United States and the size of the country, I mean, what's going to, what's the path to getting it to where like a good player can just play soccer

and then sort of rise up through the ranks the way I assume it happens in Holland. How does that even going to happen in the U.S.? Yeah. So when I would give you now the solution, you know, I think I, you know, I was the kind of visit because I worked five years for the Federation. I know people are thinking about this already for years, for years, for years for years, how to solve this. So I don't

have the answer of course. But looking at things as how you can how you can have these I would say financial opportunities

for families who have these difficulties to pay these some of money, you know, to let their kids play. Yeah, I think that that is one of the solutions. Yeah. It's even pay, you know, even to play recreational soccer at a very low level, you still have to pay a little bit. There's nothing wrong, you know, that you, that you have to pay,

because in the Netherlands, you have to pay also when you're, you know, but it, it are not, I would say, it are not these high costs when you compare with, with the US. And the other, the other thing, of course, when you're playing at a high level, when you're looking at youth soccer, you have to fly and you have to stay over in hotels. And that's also, yeah, a big difference. And it's also a big difference because, yeah, when you have to do that for one game in the weekend. And actually, it should be one game because otherwise it will be a survival. competition instead of a soccer competition.

That are the challenges. Yeah, you know, in a country like the U.S., you have to deal with. It sounds to me like a massive rise in the popularity of the sport would be maybe the one thing that could help, you know. Of course, of course, because then you also can have these competitions, I would say, much closer to where people live and at a certain level. Because that is also how you want to develop high-level players, is that you want to play the best, with the best, against the best.

And that can be difficult when you're looking at the size of the country. But when you can divide the country in, let's say, eight parts, something like that, then it's already getting easier. And you've got these hot bets also when you're looking at soccer. so it's not that you have to, you know, start these high-level competitions in these areas that, you know, with less talent. So it's also, you can also be focused in a way. Let me ask one more youth soccer question. A lot of people listen to this are like, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, get, let's get on to the national team stuff.

But I'm interested in it. I'm a parent. I'm a youth soccer coach. Do you have people, do you have parents in the Netherlands being obnoxious? at youth soccer games, you know, yelling at, yelling at the refs, screaming at the kids. Is that a problem in Holland too? Or is that a uniquely American quality? No, it's not, it's not unique.

No, no. Because also in the Netherlands, parents get emotional. And emotions are okay when you use them in the right. way. But when you use them, you know, to bully at the referee or, you know, doing even things that are worse. But that also happens in the Netherlands. But there is, and I think that's the same in the US. There is more and more attention for it. And also these campaigns, but also this you know this this yeah this way of looking after each other so I think that's that's the way to handle these things to be clear as a as a as a club as a league this is what we allow and this

is what we don't allow and then you know have these how do you call that that that social way of telling the other one oh this is not how we are doing it over here so please stop yelling you know and that's also I would say our responsibility as one parent to another parent

as one coach to another coach also to have that awareness and yeah feeling yourself also accountable for that because we're not helping you know anyone especially not not the kids right problem having a problem keeping refs around because they can't they don't want to deal with it you know that's that's that's you know that's you know that's that's all over i would say all over the place uh not only in the in the you know yeah yeah well who all now you know now that you're gone

who all actually has a say or even back when when you're you're you're you're even by when you're you were there, who had a say in the direction of coaching American soccer? Like how many cooks are in the kitchen for creating, you know, sort of a way of playing or, you know, having the types of coaches we want to have to play the type of soccer we want to play? Yeah. So, so, I thought about that question because you shared a few questions with me. So I would say the way of playing. So first, I don't think. there should be a really a fixed way of playing. I think it's good, you know, that clubs, coaches look for their own way of, you know,

how to use the strength of their players. And when that's with one system or another system, that's more or less up to the coach. But it's more, I think it's more that we should look at. So what will be the best philosophy to develop players? That they can play different ways of systems of play. So if it's with three strikers or two or one, if it's, you know, high pressure or medium or low, you know, these kind of things. You know, it's a lot of teams are playing now with five defenders and these wingbacks.

Yeah, but that should be based on the strengths of your players, but also the opponents when you're looking at, I would say, the higher levels, you know, professional soccer, but also international soccer. So it's not that I think that there should be one system of play, but more looking at there must be one philosophy, how to develop players, and that should be based on, I think,

principles of why and how and what when you're looking at attacking. And so why do you attack? So what do you want to accomplish? How are you going to do that? And what are the actions, you know, and the skills players must be able to execute to do that? So I think that's more important. than looking at one system of play.

Because the perfect system doesn't exist. I guess what I wonder is, just as there are several organizations with a stake in soccer in this country and U.S. soccer has to sort of navigate through all that, I wonder if, you know, in this question, if there are too many people to try to navigate through too many cooks in the kitchen.

So when I look at, at the U.S., and you know, you call it too many cooks in the kitchen. I think that's, I think, and I say that with a strong, I think that's a negative approach. Yeah. I would say, you know, so we've got a lot of cooks. That's okay, you know, when you join forces. So when you've got, I would say, a restaurant with a lot of good cooks, but they will prepare you that, you know, that lovely dinner based on their expertise. So one cook, he has that expertise.

And you say, man, that's good. And then there's the main dish. That's a cook with another expertise. So that they're not going to compete with each other in the kitchen, but they are going to support. support each other and compliment each other. And that's actually what, you know, and I know, I'm not, I'm not, you know, the one who should say what must happen. But I've got my beliefs.

So the US is a sleeping giant. When they join forces, they will become world champion. will they become world champion in 2026? Oh man, that would be nice, you know. I think I will be on the couch and I will talk with my grandkids and I will tell them, yeah, daddy also had a, you know, a little part in creating this. So I will be proud. I will be proud. But then that big giant must join forces.

So, you know, as I look at it now, the biggest competition is that they compete with each other instead of competing with the rest of the world. And I know there are changes and changes for better. So that's really something I embrace. But, you know, they should continue looking at how can we join forces. because when you've got that culture, when you're looking at sports, when you've got that number of people, when you've got, I would say also, yeah, I must say also high-level qualitative coaches,

then it must be possible to become the best of the world. Well, from your lips to God's ears on that happening in 2026, you took some tough questions about the accessibility of the coaching licenses in your time with USSF. you mentioned that earlier actually. And specifically the requirement that academy coaches have an A or a B license. Has your thinking involved on those things? Or do you still think like an academy coach should have one of those licenses,

which like you said, they are somewhat expensive. They take time to get. And yeah, do you still feel like that's an important qualification for an academy coach? Yeah. So again, you know, when you're looking for a certain standard, when you're looking for a certain standard that should result in a high performance of player, then you also have to look at a certain standard when you're looking at the coaches who are working with these players. So I must say that didn't change. So I really think that mandatory licenses are still important when you're looking at academy players, but also when you're looking at professional soccer.

Because, again, it's a profession. You know, it's not something you just learn from doing. you also have some body of knowledge, you also have these skills, you have to have these, I would say, right attitude to work in that environment with talented players, with talented kids. So based on that, there should be a license. So that's, yeah, I didn't, you know, when I'm looking at accessibility, the then then so first

the first thing I want to say I also had a lot of discussions about that and again I say that with a smile

so so when you're looking at players you know and we're talking about players then then everybody

accepts that you're talking about a pyramid that the best players you know are playing for your national team

so when you're when you're looking at the best players playing for your national team, you're not talking about four or 500 players. So, and it should be, it should be the same when you're looking at coaches. It should be a pyramid.

So your best coaches are the coaches who will, who will be admitted to the pro license and who will work at that level. So, so, That's why it's important that there is an application. That's why it's important that there is a kind of selection. But coaching courses must be accessible for everyone who wants to coach players. But at a certain level, you know, you also have to look at, okay, but then you also have to look at the standards.

because the standards of the coaching license should meet the standards of what you expect from place. So to come back to your question, to make it more accessible, I think it's really important to try to organize coaching courses really close to where people are living. So then you have to create, and I know your soccer is trying to do that. You have to create that network also of qualified instructors all over the countries.

And also working together with the other organizations and we did it. And I think we are still doing that, working together with state associations, how to develop their employees to become instructors and so on and so on. So that's important, I think. And also look at all these, you know, opportunities when you're looking at technology. So I already talked a little bit about blended learning. So some things you can do online, some things you have to do, you know, in practice. So look at that perfect blend.

So don't fly people, for example, all over the country when you can do it online. But some of these things, yeah, you have to do on the fields and you have to do in practice. So that should be the focus when you fly people, for example, to Kansas, I think. Okay. How does, you know, Greg Burhalter has talked about changing the way the world views American soccer. And I wonder if you can tell us how does the worldview American soccer and how has, and how has that changed with the increased success of young players in Europe, you know, particularly over the, basically since you started at the federation that has happened.

I'm not crediting you with that necessarily, but you were there when it was starting to happen. So how has that changed the way the worldviews American soccer? Yeah. So a lot of people should be credited for that. Right, right. When you're looking at the people who worked at the office, but also when you're looking at the coaches. So yeah.

So I also really believe in teamwork. There's not one person who can change a whole system, you know. Of course. So you have to start that movement. And actually, I think that is what Greg is trying to do, start that movement. So I thought about, okay, so when you compare this with Steve Jobs and Apple, So, yeah, you know, there must be that people who start a movement, who start to inspire other people. But at the end, it's the brand that will make the difference.

It's not the person. It's the brand, you know, and believe in the brand. And I think that's changing. Of course, you know, all the, so I just looked at it today. So I think 50 plus players are playing in Europe now from the US. And we know, you know, some of them really at a high level. You know, Chelsea, Dortmund. Juventus.

So Juventus, yeah. So there are high level clubs and really, you know, high respected clubs in Europe. So that's really changing the view of how people are looking at the US and the development of the youth players over there. They see also what's happening when you're looking at the MLS, you know, the competition. I think it's good that when you're looking at players going from Europe to the US, that there is also, you know, that there is also. a higher focus on younger players. So it shouldn't be, I would

say, players who are still good players, but they are closer to their retirement, you know, than that they are at their peak when they're looking, when you're looking at their performance.

So when you really want to give also the competition in the US a boost, you should have these players who are at their peak performance period. So I think that's changing. And I can also look at it from our agency. Also, the US is an interesting country for players.

So yeah. And Greg, I think when you're looking at what he's trying to do, I think he's trying to inspire. He's trying to set up a movement. And hopefully that movement leads to joint forces. And that will hopefully, you know, get that giant awake. And then when you're awake, you can perform. And then it's not only talking about being the preeminent sport in the US,

but being the preeminent sport and country in the world. I think. Okay. I assume you've at least been paying attention to the results for the men's national team. I mean, you worked with a lot of the people involved there. You have any thoughts on World Cup qualifying so far for Greg and the boys? Yeah. So, you know, what I've seen, and especially when I looked at the results,

but also when you're looking at these reports of the games, I think it's still a challenging group. What I think is really interesting is that there was always that competition between Mexico and the US. And now Canada is also really, you know, on top and at a high level with a really, really good players. And I think that's good for the competition. because you should have a tough competition when you want to qualify for the World Cup, but because there you will meet for short tough competition. So when you've got a really easy, you know, qualifying, I would say, period,

and these easy qualifying matches that won't help you to be at a high level at the World Cup. So it will help. But first they have to qualify. And I think they're still in a good position for that. I think the first next game is Mexico. That will be, you know, I would say an important game. All the games are important, but that will be really an important game when they can have a good result over there.

I think they will be at a really good position to qualify themselves. And I think they must qualify because they have to make that next step in competing at that level for the development of the players but also of the game. It's so important. Yeah. Are you going to go to Qatar? Are you going to go to the World Cup in 2020? Yeah. No, I don't think so.

I don't think so. Now I'm really, so now my job actually is working for that talent agency because they, they actually have the same philosophy. They say, you know, being an agent is a profession. So you need to have education to become an agent focused on the interest of players. And actually that's, I must say, I really fancy my job because it's another side actually of the soccer world. So I've been, you know, at the side of coaching education for a long period of my life.

I'm now more at the other side. It's more commercial, of course. But still, it should be starting with the interest of the player actually in your mind. So again, you know, answering your question. So then I would say going to Qatar is not, not, I would like to go. But when you're looking at the, you know, the, depressive situation at the moment. Yeah. I don't think it will happen.

But, you know, fingers crossed, maybe. Okay. Well, Niko, thank you for doing this. I do appreciate your time. Okay. Yeah. So you're welcome and I really enjoyed it also. Well, thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you.