Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #269: Zach Lowy on Vizela, Portuguese football & the transfer market for U.S. players

Episode Date: April 12, 2022

Breaking the Lines co-founder Zach Lowy joins to talk about Alex Mendez, Alejandro Alvarado, Vizela's chances of staying up and the incredible achievement that would be, Portuguese football in general, and whether the European market for young American talent is overheated.5:00 Alex Mendez, Alejandro Alvarado and Vizela in general28:10 Reggie Cannon and Boavista40:00 Portugal's World Cup prospects47:00 the European market for U.S. talent57:00 Zach on Berhalter@ZachLowy on Twitter, and his podcast is called Cortalinhas: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cortalinhas-episode-27-part-1-how-vizela-have-shaped/id1568598999?i=1000556461098support Scuffed on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedjoin the Discord: https://discord.gg/X6tfzkM8XUbuy our merch: https://my-store-11446477.creator-spring.com/drop us a question at this link and we’ll try to answer it: https://forms.gle/rfzSEZJwsvnWSCxW7 Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuffed podcast. I'm Adam Bells in Georgia. With me is Greg Velasquez in Iowa. We talk about U.S. men's soccer. Our guest today is Zach Lowy, the co-founder of Breaking the Lines, a sprawling soccer media brand that covers all sorts of things. It has a Spanish football podcast, a French football podcast, and a Portuguese football podcast, which is Zach's specialty. He created the Cordillinish podcast, which is, of course, about Portuguese football. Zach, how you doing, man? I'm doing really well. And thanks so much for having me all. It's a pleasure to come on. Yeah, as you mentioned, I'm the co-creator of Breaking the Lines. So we have a lot of different podcasts with regards to Lig-on.

We have a League On podcast, which is Casselles-Lins. We have Aria di Rigore, which is a CRD-A podcast. And, of course, we have a lot of other podcasts, including my Quirtilinish podcast, which is a weekly podcast that I started last year. So, first of all, where are you located? I'm in Maryland. A lot of people think I'm Portuguese, but no, I do not have any, like, familial link with Portuguese. Oh, man, that surprises me.

Yeah, I, it's funny. Actually, my mom's side of the family is Italian-American. So I was kind of happy that Italy didn't make it to the final, to play Portugal, because that would have caused me to make some uncomfortable decisions. So, but, but yeah, I, I definitely like, like, Portuguese football a lot. And yeah, it's something that I've always had a passion for. I would say, like, I started getting to it maybe when I was in high school, because it was just a great competitive league with so many young talents and a league that always entertain. So, yeah,

it's been a passion of mine. And I think that, you know, I had been both a host as well as a guest on a few podcasts before Cortezish. And like, I just decided that, like, everybody, a lot of people are doing like a general podcast, you know. But for me, like, just focusing on Portuguese football, even if it means I don't get, like, the most amount of viewers or followers, like, that's fine because that's, like, really what I want to do. You know, that's what I love talking about, it's Portuguese football.

I feel like it's my niche. And I feel like, you know, for a lot of journalists like yourself, you know, once you you can sort of get a feeling that God puts you on the surf to cover this subject. In your case, it might be, you know, American soccer. But I have always enjoyed Portuguese football. I had the chance to go to Portugal last year, which was awesome. I see a few games there. And yeah, it's a league that I'm broadly trying to connect the English language community on Twitter too,

because I feel like there is not enough marketing, shall we say, from the league's point of view. They don't really care of people who don't speak Portuguese or who don't live in Portugal, watch the league, in my opinion. So I think that Quirtilinish, but also some other podcasts and also some other projects that are non-BTL are doing a good job with that. And so, yeah, I'm happy to play a big part in that we have a podcast coming up soon where I interviewed actually my first ever Dutch guest. to discuss Benfica's likely new manager, Rohir Schmidt, who's coming from PSFA Aindhoven. So, yeah, that will be up this week. Very excited for that. Nice.

You know, I listened to a part of your episode where you did the top 25 players in Liga Nosh. Is that how you say it, Liga Nosh? Well, they changed the sponsor last year. So it's now Liga B-Win, B-Win, the betting site that used to be able. I'm like Real Madrid's. But yeah, I still call it Liga Nosh from time to time, just like forgetting that because League of B-WIN is kind of harder to say. But you can just say Prima Liga.

Okay. Well, I just noticed that the two guests you had on there, both of them by their accents sounded like they were British. They were treating you like you were the godfather. There was a lot of reverence for your work from your guests there. So I first I want to say I enjoyed the interview with Gary Clabin a lot, obviously a subject that hits home with me. It's fun to listen to him talk soccer and I thought you drew him out in some smart ways. His assessment of Alex Mendez, a kid, you know, a player he's known since he was nine years old and now his client who's playing at Vizela, a very small club in Portugal, was interesting to me.

He said Mendez is a special talent, but the next step for him is to be a day. day in, day out, reliable professional who consistently runs hard and tackles hard and plays with intensity on both sides of the ball, which the manager Pacheco demands. Does that square with your assessment of Mendez from what you've seen this season? Yeah, I think so. I mean, Alex Mendez, I started following him back in, I think, 2019, back in the U20 World Cup when the U.S. beat France only to lose to Ecuador in the final round. And, yeah, Mendez is a player who I think has those technical attributes, I think, and has a lot of intelligent things that are definitely useful for this Vizelah side.

A Vizelis side that are playing in the top flight for the second time in their history, the first time since I think 1984. So, yeah, he has definitely been useful. But obviously, I know what that being said, being useful, is not always enough to crack into the lineup. And so we've seen Mendez get important minutes. I think he's definitely in a better position than he was in Ayaxo Freiburg. But with that being said, he's got to work on it.

He hasn't always started. I think, actually, I think Alex got a run of starting opportunities like a month or two ago, but was sent to the bench for, I think, it was coughing up a penalty against, I'm trying to think who it was. It was a team that was like not much better than them. I think it was actually, actually I think it may have been Jill Vicent, yeah, who were one of the best teams in Portugal at the time. But yeah, they ended up losing one nothing.

And after that, Mendes ended up going to the bench. So it's stuff like that that he needs to work on. I think defensively, I think in terms of hard work. And that's something that like when you're a newly promoted team and you're trying to, you know, you are trying to stay up, then maybe you don't always give, you know, the younger, more talented kid some opportunities. You know, maybe you'll give that to someone who's 34 years old like Cloudimir, who has that experience. Or you'll give it to Osama Rashid, who's 30 years old, who, who joined in January, but prior to doing. so had already done very well for another mid-table pre-manacite in Santa Clara. So these are little things that Alex needs to work on. And I also think that, you know, just giving him an open, like, highway to a starting spot, that's not healthy either.

You know, I think that, like, working on it and understanding what he needs to improve on in order to get into the lineup, that is probably. a better course of action. What do you think is Pacheco's message to him? I mean, is there a reason to think he'll try to mentor Mendez into a, you know, a more reliable contributor for lack of a better way of saying it, you know? Yeah, I think there is.

I think that Alvaro Pacheco, he's definitely caught my eye for many reasons for his beard, for his peeky blinders hat. Yeah. And his stylish swagger on the touchline. I certainly didn't have a good idea of what this vizeloside were like. But they've done very well in terms of, I think, in terms of not being the traditional parking the bus and trying to just hit on the counter. They are a team that knows how to defend deep, but they often actually have more possession or are close to 50-50. So, you know, for example, against Benfica a few weeks ago, they had 48 possession and 19 shots.

Got a 1-1-1-dra in that game too, right? Right, a 1-1 draw. And yeah, so they've done very well. I think they've made a great showing of themselves. And I also think that, to a degree, Alvado knows that if Vizela can stay up, there will be some players who will probably get big moves from this team. and that in of itself, I think, will open up some more opportunities for Mendez, because it's hard to see them retaining their full squad

if they do stay up, which I think, at this point, I would say that they stay up, despite their recent loss to Braga. I think that they have just enough. But, yeah, when you compare Alex to other players in his position, you know, he is much younger than Rafael Guzo, Claudimir and Osama Rashid, and as well as a few more. And also, I mean, he's also made a very good showing of himself, I would say, in his first season in Portugal.

Yes, he still has plenty to work on. But overall, I can definitely, I definitely think that perhaps Pacheco is saying to Alex, you know, if you just stay with us for a few more years, you know, you could very well be in the U.S. national team. you could very well be getting a big move to a bigger side. But right now, Alex needs a club like Vizella. You know, can't be going back to an Iax where he's just going to have all these superstars ahead of him. You know, he needs a chance where, okay, maybe he's not a starter every day,

but he's got a pretty darn good chance of if he works hard, he can get into that spot. You know, Gary is obviously biased toward Alex and, I mean, admittedly so. But he does a good job, I think, of encapsulating, like, what's so tantalizing about him as a player. Because if he could get that moment-by-moment professionalism nailed down on the ball, he's a pleasure to watch. I mean, even in games for Vizel, even when he's just doing a simple pass out to the wing, there's just a quality there that kind of pops off the screen for me. So I'm excited to see him try to work on these things under Pacheco and, and, you know,

you know, stay in Portugal for a couple years, at least, you know. And one thing as well, I do think that Alex probably needs to work on his physicality. I think he probably needs to bulk up. And yes, he's a very talented player, a very gifted player, but one that I think would definitely benefit with some improved physicality. You still sort of get that feeling that he's got the physique of a youth player, not pro player. So I definitely think that by improving that,

is just by improving, like, off the ball. Because, you know, a player like Alex, who's used to playing on teams that dominate ball where it's IAX's youth teams or, you know, L.A. Galaxy, whatever, you know, he's more used to having the chance to shine with his dribbling, with his passing. He needs to understand that with Vizella, you got to shut up shop first, you know.

And if you do, then you've got a pretty decent chance. of getting something from this game. But yeah, Vizella, they, I've been impressed by them, currently 13th in the league and four points above the relegation playoff spot. So it's hard to, it's hard to exaggerate just how much of an achievement this would be if they do manage to stay up. It would be a pretty big collapse on their part if they didn't stay up at this point, wouldn't it? Yeah, it would for sure.

I mean, they have fought off the threat of relegation this season. You know, they've never been clear of the threat. Personally, I think that Morerence and Belenich Saad will go down and we'll see what happens with the relegation playoff spot. But right now, they're going to face off against Belenich Saad, who have done, actually done pretty well in recent weeks. A lot of people like myself had basically left them for dead, but they've been. They had strung together a pretty impressive run before losing to Benfica at the weekend.

So I don't think that's going to be an easy game at all for them next weekend. Then they're playing another relegation candidate, another fellow promoted side in Aruka at home. And then they are going to Porto. I definitely expect them to lose that match. And final two games, they are going to be hosting a Maritimo side that has done fairly well. Scotiabra, but has also had some kickups in form recently, have three losses in the past four games, and finally, they are going to Montanets, who are currently the second bottom from the team. And that could, you know, if Vizela don't get positive results from their matches, that could

be a potential relegation decider on the final day. Yeah, a lot of drama coming in the next few weeks, I guess. What player attributes do Portuguese teams value higher than teams in other European leagues? Can you generalize about that? I mean, to a degree, it's funny. I was talking to my guest, Rick Elfrink, who's a Dutch journalist who covers Paiso Svay yesterday, and he sort of made a reference to this, that like Portugal is a bit more defensive than the Netherlands when it comes to that. I think there's definitely some logic to that.

I think that I think there is kind of a general sense that, yes, you get a lot of teams who set up on the defensive. And there are a few reasons for that. One, I think there's just the Portuguese coaching philosophy that, you know, you sort of get a lot of coaches who, despite the fact that there are so many great Portuguese coaches now in Portugal and abroad, you still, I feel like there's definitely that thing, you know, broken in, like, in that philosophy, you know?

Well, what good is it if you score two goals if you just concede it at three, you know? And I also think that there has been another sort of disconnect that a lot of these big teams port to Benfica sporting, despite having World-Caz academies, they will often not give younger, younger players chances and will force them to go out on loan or move somewhere else. There have been so many players, like Bernard de Silva, for example,

he did not get like any playing time whatsoever at Benfica before going to Monaco, and now he's probably one of the best players in the world. And yeah, there are really so many examples like that. So in general, I think that you get that sense. But I I do think it's changing somewhat. I think that we're seeing that with teams like, you know, like Nizela to a degree, like Aruka, like Femalika, teams that want to try to have possession and want to try to, you know, control games and go against the grid. So I think that it's a bit harsh to stereotype that.

And I think that despite the fact that, yes, you do get a lot of teams that are going on the defensive, that doesn't mean you can't have an entertaining game, you know. we've seen so many like we've seen a lot of balanced games between between teams of the big three and teams that are fighting relegation i think that it's it's it goes both ways one yes you know that porto benfica sporting are almost always going to be the favorites when they play at the weekend but um and and and because of that reason a lot of teams will just decide to kind of park the bus and try to soak up pressure. But with that being said, you have to give them some credit. You know, counterattacking takes courage and trying to do other stuff. That takes courage as

well. I think that Belinich Saad, despite the fact that they lost 3-1 at the weekend, they to Benfica, they showed a lot of courage against them, even if they tried to go on the defensive sometimes. So overall, I think that it is a bit lazy to kind of stereotype them. Yes, Portugal is probably more of a defensive league than Netherlands. In fact, I think I saw a report like a few weeks ago that said that Portugal has like the least efficient playing time. Like they have the most amount of time where the ball is out of play. So that is like one thing that you'll see a lot. like every weekend you'll get a goalkeeper who's wasting time or you'll get I've seen so many cards yellow cards doled out for like time wasting I remember there's

this one weekend where like I think there were six straight games where they at least one player got a yellow card for time wasting um but but but yeah that that's not just in Portugal either yeah I guess I have a stereotype of Portugal as like Portuguese players as like really savvy and um you know i guess they would be ready for conca calf if they if they ever had to be which they won't ever have to be um and like you said earlier visela uh they're a small club as small as a club can be in the top flight in portugal and they're they play they play soccer you know like they're it's they can be kind of fun to watch at least in the clips i've seen let me ask you about another american um kind of a kind of a deep

cut even for the sickos out here. Alejandro Avarado got his debut over the weekend. And I'm curious if you know anything about this. Mendez wasn't in the squad for Vizella, but Alvarado got the start in midfield. This is an 18-year-old, I think, from Los Angeles. Yeah. So I'm not sure he's Gary's client, but I assume he is. I don't know.

Anyway, he started, played like 55 minutes. He looked to me okay. but what do you know about him? I'll be honest, I did not know about Alejandro Alvarado Jr. until this weekend. It was actually about, I think, like, 30 minutes before the Vizela Braga game when I just got a text from Gary. It was like, hey, Zach, my other player, Alejandro Alvarado,

18-year-old American, is starting for Vizela today. I don't know, I don't know, yeah, why Alex was out of the squad. I know he played the game before that, but, but yeah, I'm not sure why. I would expect him. Hopefully he's back for the game against Bell and Ashad. But yeah, he looked interesting to me. I know he got a yellow card, but, yeah, interesting role. I thought kind of playing, playing as a midfielder.

but but but but yeah did did fairly well uh with with with i think um the physical side i think he agreed fairly well in terms of holding his own and you know winning those tackles uh so yeah i was i was actually probably more impressed by that than anything which is as we mentioned something that alex needs to work on um so yeah it was an interesting setup that alberto pacheco had i thought going up against this Braga side who have been, who are showing why they are the fourth best team in Portugal. But yeah, he showed a lot of quality, I thought. And yeah, I think that the players who started next to him,

Osama Rashid and Samu, those are two very important players for this Visela side, as I mentioned. I think Samu was a player who could, we talked about it in the podcast with Gary, a player who could get a move soon, as well as Osama Rashi, the player has already shown his quality, you know, at a very high level. And for Santa Clara. So, yeah, another player that Alex is going to have to compete with. Yeah, it's interesting.

And I guess it surprised me a little bit that he would be, that Alvarado would be given that responsibility. And like, you know, every game, every point matters at this point for Vizela. Well, we had already, yeah, he actually, yeah, he actually, Actually, he had played like five minutes, I think. Back in the fall, right. Against like Morden, but yeah, this was his first start. So it's a pretty big, I mean, to give a start to, you know, what, a teenager against a side like Braga.

That takes a lot of cohones. So fair play to Pacheco. And another reason why Pacheco just isn't, you just can't, like, pigeonhole him as, like, the stereotypical Portuguese manager, you know, manages a big club and tries to, go out on the defensive every dime and, and, you know, just soak up a point. You know, he's really not like that. You brushed at this earlier, but what would it mean to Vizela as a club to stay up? It would be just incredible. Vizela are a club that have been around for a while over 80 years,

but only in the top flight for the second year in their history, the first time since 1984. And they're a club that have a fairly small stadium, 6,000 capacity, I believe, and a fairly small city as well, I think, about like 20,000 population. So this is a pretty small club. And just a few years ago, Vizela were serving as Braga's farm team. And after they were relegated due to this big scandal, the Apito Dorado, the Golden Whistle scandal in Portugal.

So they've gone from serving as Braga's farm team to going neck and neck with Braga for a point. Obviously, weren't able to do so, but I think that shows you just how incredible this rise is. As I mentioned, I think that a few players would probably end up getting moves away from the club. But, like, I also don't think that, I think that they've shown. shown a capacity to deal with that and to bring in quality players. You know, that's one thing.

I think probably my first taste of Vizelah was not like any game, but just by watching, just by monitoring their transfers last summer, they brought in players who like you don't really expect, I think, from Portuguese's clubs.

Yes, you brought in some veterans like Klauomir, the Brazilian midfielder from Sivasborg. veteran player and some previous players from bigger clubs in Portugal like Gilheim Chetin,

but you also had a lot of younger players like Alex Mendez, like Kevin Zohi from Strasbourg, a very interesting a very interesting recruitment. Is that Pacheco doing all that? Well, I don't think it's all Pacheco. I can't imagine it's all Pacheco.

I think that you have to give credit to some of their scouts. In fact, actually, I have a contact to Ricardo Faria, who is a scout, one of the main scouts at Vizella and hoping to interview him in the next few weeks after the season is over. So they definitely seem like a club that go against the grain in that as well. And honestly, I think it's probably. better for Vizelah's sake that they do not do too well, if that makes sense, because there have been so many clubs in Portugal over the years who, like, finish fifth or sixth, have pretty

much all of their assets rated, whether it's manager, whether it's their top strike or whether it's, you know, and end up getting relegated literally the season after. We've seen that with Ryoav, Chavs, Aruka. There have been so much. many examples. So this is, I think that if I was a Vizela fan, I would honestly rather have my team. I don't know if I can say I'd rather my team finished 13th than fifth. Obviously, that's, that's, that's, if I was a Veselah fan, I'd rather I'm, uh, do fifth. But it's one of those things where it's like, you know, be careful what you wish for. Because like I said, um, finishing like lower table, I think that will draw less attention themselves. And it'll allow Vizela to be in a

better position where I think you can strike that balance between, you know, yes, you'll sell some players like Samu or Kiko Bondoso or Cassiano or whatever. And you'll find decent players to replace them. But you also won't have as much, you know, squad turmoil where you're losing like half the entire squad and you have to build up a new squad overnight, you know. I think that's the sweet spot that Vizal need to find themselves in. And if they can, if they can stay, up. You know, that's going to be massive for them, not just in terms of TV rights, but also just

convincing players that, you know, we are not just a one and done team. We're looking to, we're going to be playing against the likes of Benfica, Braga, sports, and we're going to be, you know, trying to make ourselves a name.

That's part of the reason why I think this is a great opportunity for Alex. Yes, it's, and Alejandro, a great opportunity for both Alex and Alejandro. Yes, Vizela are a fairly small club, but they've also got a massive presence in terms of their supporters. I think that's one thing that I want to add. I remember back in September when Vizella played Portmane Mnch,

Porte Monarch are in the Algarve, which is like the southern part of the southern coast of Portugal, whereas Vizela are in the north. So it was like a six-hour drive And a 12-hour drive going both ways And it was on a Sunday night I've said this before Like just how terrible the Portuguese league's scheduling is

But despite the fact that it was on a Sunday night Despite the fact that it was like a 12-hour round trip So many Vazela fans Made the trip and like showed out for them I know that there are probably like a ton of people in Texas and California Who are saying like six hours, that's nothing Like I've done it But like for Portugal it's a lot

lot. Okay, so they've got a loyal supporters base, which is something that is not always hard. It's not always easy to come by in Portugal. Let me just say that this podcast is listener supported. We have no advertisements. And so we ask that if you are able, please consider subscribing to the Patreon. The link is in the show notes. Okay. Let me ask about a little bit about Reggie Cannon. He's higher in the depth chart for the U.S. Minnesota team than Alex Mendezes, but still probably on the outside looking in if we're talking about a World Cup roster. on the bubble, let's be fair, on the bubble. But the shorthand over here is that Bovichita has been a kind of a disastrous location for him since he left FC Dallas.

And I wonder, you know, I don't really understand like the financial situation there or what exactly has happened. Could you kind of shed light on that and explain what it might have meant for Cannon? I mean, he's back in the squad now, but... Look, it's definitely a touchy subject for Bovich Sophan. And they are a massive club, I think. I think that arguably the biggest club outside of Benfica Porto and sporting, when you look at their fan base. So, yeah, I think that...

And I remember, like, this one U.S.-based journalist tweeting about their, like, financial problems and like they still hadn't paid uh fc dallas and i think like a ton of uh boavish fans like invaded his mentions or something but uh so it's a touchy subject but what i will say is that gerard lopez um is in charge of that is in charge of the club and he's also in charge of bordeaux and he has left bordeaux he hasn't left them because he's still in charge of them but he overall we had a podcast on his reign at Lestlins, our Ligon podcast. So if you want to listen that, definitely check that out for more on him at Bordeaux.

But yeah, he is also in charge of Bovista. And one thing that was interesting is that Bovista back last summer, they had pretty much a fire sale. They sold off. It was incredible how many players they just, let go of, especially in the last few days of the market. Paulino, Adiorami, Albert Ellis, a player from, you know, from Houston, who's doing well at Bordeaux. But yeah, both Ellis and Ricardo Mangas ended up going to Bordeaux, two very important players. So yeah, a lot of, a lot of, a lot of big departures for Boavista to handle.

And I would say somewhat parasitic, the fact that two of their best players going to, to Gorda, Gerard Lopez's other club. Yeah. So, yeah, there are definitely some financial irregularities. And, I mean, one thing I will say, I probably shouldn't be saying this, but what the heck. I have some connections with some very, you know, higher ranking agents in Portugal. And when I was in Portugal back in November, I was speaking to the agent of Jovi-Pedrosusa, who was the ex-Maliki manager.

was then the Boavista manager. And he told me that, uh, that Jo-Pedros Sousa had tried to resign on, I think, two separate occasions. And this was, well, this was while he was in his final days as Boavish, the manager. And he had just taken over in the summer, uh, after,

after replacing Gisualdo Feira. Um, but yes, Sousa, he had tried to resign previously. And he ended up leaving, um, in, I think November 30th, and Bovista were, yeah, they, they lost Susa midway through the season, who's now, I think, in the Middle East. So, yeah, and he also told me that, like, there were some, I think, physical trainers

that resigned because of unpaid wages and players were planning a revolt, some very other shocking details about the club. honestly. So the thing about them not paying FC Dallas, is that true or is that not true? I don't, I wasn't able to get a confirmation on that, but given their other, given, given their other financial irregularities, I would probably say true. I mean, like, Bordeaux and Bordeaux, going back to Bordeaux, I remember they, they were provisionally relegated last summer because of like financial irregularities. they were like relegated to league d and then they ended up going back up because like they were

able to sell some players i think but but gerard lopez is not a guy who you want to trust with money and yet for some reason he still gets chances to own and run teams i don't know why maybe it's the uh maybe it's the luxembourgian uh all we say but but overall he's a guy who usually leaves his teams in financial, let's say financial problems. Okay, we saw that with Lille, we saw that with Bordeaux, and we're seeing that with Bavista.

Like I said, there was some, there was a lot of stuff that could have gone haywire for them, not just in terms of form. I mean, I think that Bovichita, you know, they could have easily lost a lot of big players and ended up in the relegations. And the fact that they've never, like, had that much of a serious threat of relegation.

You know, I expect them to finish mid-table or so. I think that definitely says a lot, too, how well these players have performed in these adverse circumstances, looking at, you know, unpaid wages, looking at just, he told me some very damning things about their resources, about their facility. So, yeah, that's, it's one thing that I think that is tough for a player overcome. I'm not sure if I would consider Reggie Cannon's time in Bovista failure.

I can definitely see why U.S. fans would have wanted him to go to another club, and I remember that Fulham were linked to him back in, I think, September. But overall, you know, Cannon, he has, while he had struggled at times to get into the lineup, I think at the start of the season, especially. He wasn't playing for like the first few months. I think injury, but, and also due to the form of Natanz Santos in the wingback position, but this season he, you know, since, since the turn of January, he has been getting regular minutes actually under, under Petit. As a right centerback, mostly, right? Yeah, as a right-sided centerback, which I think is interesting. I mean, well, actually, against Porto, I believe.

leave he played as a right wingback. And then was dropped to the bench the following game against Famolika and then returned to his right centerback position alongside Jackson Poroso and Rodrigo Alaskal. And so, yeah, whereas, you know, I think that I think that a lot of praise has definitely, on my part, has been given to Natanz Santos, who's the right wing back, who has the kind of freedom to push forward and link up. But that's only really possible by Canon doing a good job in defense. He's been incredibly important for them in defense. And I think that overall, you know, the fact that they've only conceded 41 goals in 29 games, it's not great on paper, but compare

it to some other teams like Aruka, like Famolikao. It's pretty good, I think. And Canon has has played a big role in that. So, you know, like they say, defense wins championships. And I think that Boavish said, the fact that they haven't really, like, haven't really had too much of a scare with relegation. Like, I don't think it's, I think that's a pretty decent return for them,

considering where they were at the start of the season. Okay. Tell us about Meditaremi at Porto. The U.S. is likely to face him in the World Cup since he's Iranian. He's got 14 goals, 12 assists so far this season for the top club in Portugal. Seems like a real handful. Yeah. Medita, I mean, it's a pretty incredible story, which I think we don't give enough credit to.

The fact is this man was playing, he had not played outside of Asia until he was like 27, I think. He went to Hewav in 2019, I believe. and Taremi was really just for a guy who had never played in Europe before to go to Huav and just be absolutely phenomenal I believe he finished as the top score and took Huav to fifth place sealing Europa League on the final day of the season

and then of course he ended up getting a big move Porto Benfica they were all linked but yeah Porto ended up winning the race for him for a very reasonable fee and that the following season without Taramean attack Kiuav got relegated so they went from finishing fifth

to getting relegated and while they did have some other departures like Muno Santos like the manager Carlos Carval I definitely think that failing to replace Therremy was the biggest reason for that and yeah he's been fantastic at Porto I think that last season he was

He was a bit better than he was this season, but he's getting, he has gotten back to his best form. And I don't know, maybe my expectations were a bit too high for him. Maybe I wasn't giving him enough credit. But honestly, I mean, on his day, I think he's arguably the best striker in Portugal. He's that good. I've always likened him kind of to like a mix between a nine and a 10 because while he does have those, you know, like traditional center forward attributes. He is also, in many ways, like a playmaker and allowing the

striker, often playing alongside another striker, Musa Marega last season. It's now Evan Nielsen this season. So yeah, it's that creativity and passing decision that allows another player with that, to have that freedom to enter those positions. I remember, like, Evan Nielsen saying in an interview a few weeks ago, like the amount of times that Taimi gives me like an assist where like I literally don't even have a goalkeeper to beat because he's already drawn the goalkeeper out and has just allowed me to score it into the open net. Yeah, it says a lot about what kind of player he is.

He's a player who, yes, you can thrive, who can drift out to the wings and pick out players with crosses, he's a player who's really just such a unique threat. And yeah, for me, one of the most underrated strikers in Europe. Scary. Let me ask this. Portugal struggled a bit to qualify from Europe. As you mentioned, there was the possibility that they would have to play Italy in a playoff.

But they're in the World Cup. They were in pot one. And they're in a group with Ghana, Uruguay and South Korea. When I look at their roster, it just looks insane to me, you know, so stacked. What's the feeling in Portugal now about, you know, about the World Cup and their prospects? Yeah, I mean, I was in the Stadio to lose when Portugal lost to Serbia and were forced to play in the playoff. And so, so yeah, that was just such an embarrassment, honestly. I think looking at the way the game unfolded, it was so predictable.

Portugal went ahead in like the first five minutes or something. And then Serbia equalized. And honestly, after Portugal went ahead, they kind of just completely went on the defensive and just tried to grind out. And for me, that's – and then, of course, they ended up conceding that final goal in the like 93rd minute. So, yeah, I mean, for me, that's always been my biggest criticism of Fernando Santos. The fact that he tries to just accept the bare minimum when he is such a phenomenal squad of players. And so many great players like Ricardo Orta on Braga won't even be in the squad. That just tells you how much quality there is in the Salasau.

But, yeah, overall, I think that I think that Portuguese people are kind of naturally skeptical and cynical people. And I think they're still, despite the fact that Portugal, despite the fact that Portugal did very well against Turkey and North Macedonia, they are still skeptical going into them, going into the World Cup. And they know that this will probably be the last World Cup, almost certainly the last World Cup for a lot of key players for Portugal, be that Pepe, Christiane Ronaldo,

Joie Moutinho, I mean, it looks like Ruizio, the long-time starting and goal, he may not even be starting. You know, was surprisingly relegated to the bench by a player in Diogo Costa, who's a lot younger and, in my opinion, a lot better. So, yeah, you get that sort of, like, last dance feel, I think, from a lot of this.

I mean... It's crazy, though, that a player, like, Raphael Al, just on the pinch, you know. I mean, he's one of the best attackers in Syria. And it's ridiculous. Yeah, for me, I would honestly have him starting over Christiano, but I guess that's for another top, that's for another discussion.

But they have a ton of quality. And I think that they just need to try to do it in, they need to play like a unit. like they did against Turkey, like they did against North Macedonia. And I think that involves, yeah, playing like a team. So many times it seems like in the past few years, it just seemed like Portugal were just, you know, playing for Christiano and not playing with Christiano.

You know, they were crossing balls into the box and just really just kind of relying on him to create something. Something that I think we saw with to a degree with Messi at Argentina a few years back, but probably not anymore. But I think that the past two games for Portugal were definitely a good sign. And yeah, I'm not sure. I definitely wouldn't say that Portugal, I definitely wouldn't say they're a favorite, like France are or England are, or Brazil or Germany.

But with that being said, they have a ton of quality, and they have enough quality to go deep in the competition. I just, I personally don't think that Fernando Santos is the right man to, to squeeze it out of them. But, but we'll see. You know, I have to give him credit. I have to give Santos credit for the way he, he set up his team in the past few games. You know, we saw Portugal looking like a diamond formation at times. I think Ottavio did a very good job in a unique role.

I think that he was probably, alongside Diocosta, his teammate at Porto, probably the biggest winner from that. international break. So, yeah, we'll see what happens. But I think that there's so much quality in midfield and attack. And it's really all about finding a balance here. Because one thing that I think people forget about Portugal or don't realize perhaps is that Portugal are used to, they have been used to playing as the underdog for a lot of games.

And what really wasn't until the Euros win, which let's not forget. They won by playing like underdogs. They won by hitting deep and hitting on the counter. They scored very few goals in that tournament, right? Yeah. And once again, defense wins new championships. So that's something that I feel like they've definitely had to cope with. And something that Fernando Santos probably wasn't the right choice for.

But at the end of the day, it's too late for that now. he's going to remain for the World Cup. And I wish him all the best because, you know, while I've never been a huge fan of Santos, he is definitely responsible for giving Portugal the greatest moment in its history. And he also isn't the only reason that Portugal have underachieved, in my opinion, since that. I think that, yes, he does deserve blame for Portugal going out at the round of 16 in the last Euros and the last World Cup. But the players do too, whether that's in goal, whether that's in defense, whether that's in midfield, whether that's an attack.

They need to take responsibility as well. Let me ask a couple more U.S. questions, and then we'll get out of here. We've seen a lot of U.S. players bought for good money in recent years. We talk about that all the time on our podcast. then but then there's been a there's been a raft of them lately who are not playing a key role for their club or not maybe not even playing at all and having to move almost immediately after they're bought like Kevin paredes just made his debut for Wolfsburg after getting bought for like seven million Brian Reynolds and and when I say debut I mean he played five minutes he got

four touches on the ball that's after you know like two or three months there Brian Reynolds was sold for $10 million to Roma, didn't work out, and he went on loan to Cort Reich in Belgium. Ricardo Pepe, of course, $20 million to Augsburg. He's getting regular playing time, but not regular starts. And I wonder, looking at this, maybe I'm just negative Nancy over here,

but has the market for young American players gotten overheated a little bit? Or, like, what's going on? What's your take on that? Yeah, I mean, I definitely don't follow it as much as you do. I know, and that's one thing that you do a great job of, you know, following these American players who get to Europe. But, yeah, I think that in general, we're seeing,

we are seeing a lot of players who I think are thriving with that, with that decision to go to Europe, you know, Tyler Adams, as well as, you know, like so, Gianluca Bousio, and so many other, a lot of other players, but a lot of players who frankly struggle to make the step up. And I think that part of that is perhaps, I don't want to say they have inflated ego, but they perhaps had high expectations for themselves.

I think that Brian Reynolds going from Dallas to Roma, you know, that was not a great move in hindsight. And, you know, just a few months ago that I think Jose Mareno, basically like did a character assassination on him after the Bodo Glimpse game, where they lost like six to one. But that being said, Reynolds never looked great at Roma. I mean, like he didn't play well.

I think Jose probably took it a little far, but he's not completely off base. Yeah. So it's like I definitely think that Jose should have, you know, picked his words better. But, you know, with that being said, it doesn't excuse, you know, Reynolds' performances. You know, you need to be better for a top-level club like Roma.

But I do feel it's just, it's a bit tricky, you know, because a team like Dallas, who, since their foundation has really pride to themselves on the academy, they, you know, were in their rights to demand a decent amount of money for Roma, for Reynolds from Roma. An amount of money that, you know, a team like Kortrike would not be able to offer, you know. But I think that would have been, that move would have been made a lot more sensible, you know, Roma signing Reynolds and then loading him out. I think that, you know, and that's something that like with Reynolds or also with Alex Mendez, you know, going to Iax. I don't doubt that Alex had some positive experiences at Iax, you know, playing.

you know, amongst that competition and playing out a massive club, yes, you have to value that. But at the same time, you know, playing time is also massive. And that's why, honestly, over the past few years, I've, like, kind of become, my mindset has kind of shifted from, you know, wanting all, like, all these young players to leave the U.S. and go to Europe at a young age, to realizing that, you know what, Every player is different. Every case is different. And while MLS may not be at the same level of these other European leagues like Portugal or Italy, it's still a league that is developing, that is improving. And I think that is also becoming a better place for younger players to develop. You know, so I definitely become like, I would say a bit more balanced in the way I view these young players. But you have to also say that despite the fact that, yes, you have a lot of players like,

like, you know, Ricardo Pepe, who is not perhaps having the impact that we imagined him to have at Augsburg, it must be said as well that this is probably the point in history with the most, American players playing and playing well in Europe. Yes. And overall, I think that's something to take pride in because that should be the goal, I think, for a lot of players, you know, who want to play at the top level. If you want to play at the top level, you've got to play in Europe. You know, that's just a fact.

But with that being said, MLS is not like a Farmers League by any stretch. It's definitely improving in quality. and it's improving as a place to develop players. You know, we're seeing so many teams, not just Dallas, but so many teams investing in their academy, investing in coaching, and making it a better place to develop players. Well, you're not really biting on my theory,

but let me restate it one more time, see if you can tell me if I'm right or wrong. But it's, you know, we cheer every time somebody signs with a European club. Like for, and the bigger the fee, the more exciting. it is. But now we've had this like, I mentioned the three earlier, but there's also Darrell Dike, eight million to West Brom. And before this, before this most recent like series of transfers, everybody did succeed. You know, like Wester McKinney was doing well at Shalka. He's obviously

done well at Juventus. There's been a lot of success stories. And now we're having, now we have so many more that there's like more non-success stories, at least not immediate success. And I wonder if there will be a corrective in the market where people will say, no, I'm not going to pay $7 million for a, you know, a left wing back from DC United. He's going to have to, he's going to be worth $3 million and we'll see what happens. You know what I mean? Well, I see what you mean by the fact that it's like becoming saturated or overheated. But look, the fact is, I mean, when you when you have these success stories like Weston McKenney, you know, going from like not playing any minutes in MLS to like thriving for Shalk and then Juventus.

That is always going to inspire more American players to take that shot. And the fact is, like, you are never going to get a perfect amount of players who will have positive experiences. Some of them will be successes. Some of them will be failures. It is an interesting theory, though, that you mentioned, because, like, I have not, seen the recent figures

of like the the exact transfer fees but I would definitely imagine that like a club like Roma maybe are having second doubts on paying what they did for Brian Reynolds

and I think that yeah I think that a lot of teams they are realizing that US is the U.S. is becoming a better breeding ground for footballers. So I think that's something that that works in their favor. But with that being said, you know, I also think that, yeah, as you mentioned,

you've got a player like Brian Reynolds who joins Roma and frankly doesn't do that well. And looking at their other options, we're seeing a lot of youth players actually filling in. there. I think looking at Roma, they've got they've basically signed and brought in a few players like

Zaluski as well as Matias Vinya from Nikola Zaluski as who I think is a youth player and Matias Vina from Palmeirish in the summer so I don't think there's a way back for Brian Reynolds

there. Let's send him on loan to Portugal. Look, I think that it will, I think that a lot of European clubs will start saying, you know, are we sure we want to be paying $5 million, $7 million while we're still reeling from the effects of a pandemic and while we're still trying to, you know, improve our squad in and save money for other positions, yeah, I can definitely see that. But with that being said, you have to remember that these teams, I think that more and more teams across Europe are really broadening their horizons. And that's not just in Portugal,

that's in Netherlands, that's in England, that's in all these places, looking at places to Japan, to the U.S., to Mexico. And they're doing their homework on these players, you know. So if you find a player who looks like a very talented prospect, you're going to, do your homework and you're going to pay the money for them. But so, so, so, so, so yeah, I, I don't know, maybe we will reach, reach a bubble burst, but even if that bubble does burst, I still think we will have a steady flow of American players into Europe. Okay. So, so we'll see what happens with that, but, um, but, but overall, I think that it is a positive, uh, development for, for American soccer to have all these players playing at the top level, playing in European football,

and something that, you know, I don't want to be a backseat driver, but I think that that's something that Mexican fans probably would like to see more. Yeah, for sure. Let me, we just hit the hour mark, but let me ask one more question. Yeah. Yeah. You're, it's not your primary focus, but I assume you are, you take some interest in the U.S. men's national team. how do you how do you rate gregg burrhalter's performance yeah look i i am a us mn t fan if they played portugal i'll be rooting for the u.s um but overall i was a bit disappointed when they signed gregg burrhalter i think that looking at the the fact that they've spent what 18 months trying to find a replacement

in you know as a manager i i was not that convinced personally but overall I think that that Burrhalter while he may I still don't think he's a top coach but I can't deny that last summer that was one of the best summers I think to be a U.S. fan to beat Mexico and so many different competitions and to win silverware. You have to give him credit and U.S. qualifying for the World Cup as well. That's something to take pride in as well. that we're I think that Berhalter um he he may not be the best choice for them but but overall I definitely don't think he he also should have his job in jeopardy either I think that um I think

he deserves a chance to to work with this cycle and and I think that he's he's done very well actually with with a lot of younger players you know um he's I feel like I get the sense that he's he cares a lot you know, about like the human aspect as well. And that's something that you definitely know more about than I do. But I don't know anything about the human aspect, Zach. But like the way he's like talked with some cases, like Davido Choa and Julian Radojo, you know, like he could have easily, I think he could have easily like cap-type them and just, you know, but he didn't.

He was like, you know, you have the chance to see both options, both U.S. and Mexico, you know, you have that freedom. He's handled the dual national phenomenon extremely well. I think everybody agrees on that. Exactly. And maybe Alex Mendes will become the next, maybe Alex or Alejandro will become the next dual national to make that cut. But yeah, you need a coach who's going to relate to younger players,

who's going to be able to train them and overall set them up. So, you know, I'm not super convinced. I'm not super convinced in Fernando Santos either, and he won them, he won Portugal European championship. So, but, and the fact is international management is always going to be, it's always going to be a struggle to attract the top coaches, you know, because of the way international football is. But overall, well, I still don't think Burrhalto is a top coach in terms of tactical setups.

He definitely deserves some time. and his reputation in my eyes has definitely gone up over the past few years. And I'm excited to see this U.S. team play, honestly. I think that if they can stay clear of injuries, likes of Giovanni Reina can stay clear of injuries, I think that we could be a surprise in November. I hope that we go as far as we can. But the fact is, I think that U.S. is improving in soccer. And I think that it's a very good position right now.

Okay. Hey, thanks for your encyclopedic knowledge and your time. You want to shout out where people can find you real quick? Absolutely. So you can find me on Zach Lowey, Z-C-H-L-O-W-Y on Twitter as well as BTL. BTL-B-I-D that is going to be, that is breaking the lines. and we have, we're producing a lot of great content, both in terms of podcasts as well as articles, as well as USMNT related stuff. So definitely give that a look. Okay.

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you.