Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #271: West Coast Check-In with Jay Hernandez

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

This is a pilot for what I hope can be a regular episode with Jay Hernandez, a casual and briefer-than-normal conversation with an informed, opinionated fan of the US men's national team based in Los Angeles. The audio's pretty uneven but it's listenable, and it'll be better next time. We talked toxicity in the fanbase, Julian Araujo, Christian Pulisic, Gerson Perez's U20s, impressions of Orlando, and Berhalter. (Jay praised him twice.)support Scuffed on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedjoin the Discord: https://discord.gg/X6tfzkM8XU buy our merch: https://my-store-11446477.creator-spring.com/drop us a question at this link and we’ll try to answer it: https://forms.gle/rfzSEZJwsvnWSCxW7 Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuffed podcast. I'm Adam Bells in Georgia. With me is Greg Velasquez in Iowa. We talk about U.S. men's soccer. Hey, this is a new experiment, and we're calling it the West Coast check-in. I'm joined by none other than Jay Hernandez coming to us from the Los Angeles metropolitan area. Jay, how are you? I'm good, Bell.

Thanks for having me again, and looking forward to seeing how this goes. Yep, me too. The pleasure is mine. First thing I want to talk about is a hot topic. in the men's national team fan community. Toxicity. You know, Grant Well, had an article about that, and people have been talking about that.

Let's get into it a little bit. What's your take on that whole thing? I mean, I think my take, like my personal take might be different from some others, just because of the background, the kind of soccer that I follow, the kind of teams that I usually followed growing up. I was used to the criticism, criticizing the coach, criticizing the players, and I was normal. To me, that didn't seem toxic.

And I think that the issue is that maybe some might come from different backgrounds of soccer or maybe newer to the game. But to me, there's a line, right? Everybody knows the line of toxicity, what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed. Why do people talk about toxicity so much? Other fan bases of other teams, I mean, even other sports in America, they hold their teams to a really high standard. They criticize the coaches and the players all the time. But like, you never hear people talking about toxic Lakers fans, do you?

No, man. The Lakers fans are definitely toxic. So why has it come up with, why does it come up so often in U.S. soccer? To me, I think part of it, especially from a journalist of the media's perspective, it could be that they may not be used to fans, you know, questioning what they're writing about or questioning who they rate and who they don't rate or maybe, you know, fans criticizing, you know, tactics or whatever. And, you know, maybe they're not used to that pushback. You know, maybe they're used to the fans just taking their articles,

you know for the word yeah is there like a you think there's like a racial component to to it where like the white people are nice and the you know the non-white people are toxic i i i don't know if it's racial to me actually i it might be more of like the age thing um maybe those who grew up with in in the u.s national team fan a long time ago when the sport wasn't as popular as it is now, when it was just a group of, you know, small percentage of U.S. fans going to the games, you know, and maybe their culture was different, you know, than what it is now. You know, expectations are different from what they used to be then.

So there might be some aspects of racial, but there's also, to me, I've noticed an aspect of age. You see a lot of the younger fans, I mean, sorry. Soccer is so accessible now. And it didn't used to be as accessible now. I mean, then, you know, now you could watch La Liga. You can watch Bundesliga, EPL. I mean, you're watching three, four, you know,

sometimes even five games a weekend, you know, high-level soccer. And then you know what good soccer is for the most part. You know, you're watching that level of soccer. You're like, wait a minute, we're not playing up to our standards. I see, yeah. I was out with some friends last night who I played soccer with in college, and that was one of the things they said. My friend Toby was like, yeah, man, that's the biggest difference between us and, like, his kids.

His kids are a little older than mine. They're pretty good at soccer. It's like that's the biggest difference between us and, like, my kids is they watch a lot of soccer. And like, we didn't. I mean, I didn't watch a lot of soccer as a kid. I watched college football. I played soccer. I enjoyed it.

But I didn't know what good soccer was like. And he's like, man, that's the big difference between now and back when we were growing up. I mean, you watched soccer when you were a kid, right? Yeah, I watched La Liga. La Liga and Liga Amici's. I watched a lot of Liga Amici's growing up. So I kind of like understand the culture of, you know, how the Mexican national team is treated. And, you know, you see how our national team is run.

It's a lot different of the criticism that like Tata Martino, for example, he finished second ahead of us. And they want them fired. You know, the fan base wants them fired. The media wants Tata Martino fired. And they finished ahead of us. Right. And this is supposed to be the worst Mexican national team generation in a long time. And they still finished ahead of us.

Right. Yeah, we did beat him and drew him into Azteca. So that probably contributes to why they won him fired, right? I mean... Yeah, I mean, that's like the thing that they got to beat us. They have to be superior to us no matter what. And, I mean, you know, we were fortunate to get good results with them. But, I mean, that's the difference, you know, between that culture of soccer or there's expectations.

and there's there's we have to beat x team or we have to get results versus you know our rival team you know and for us it seems like it was just hey let's qualify no matter how we get there yeah i mean by the end of it that's how i felt like whatever man let's just go to the world cup yeah i mean i'm not i'm not saying i'm okay with how everything went but by the time we got to that last window i was terrified And I just want to disqualify. Anything else on toxicity? No, I mean, I don't mind, you know, criticizing the fans, but I think after a while, it's kind of exhausting.

You know, if you're a fan and you spend your money and you go to the games and you watch the games and you follow these players religiously. And then for the media to constantly call fans toxic, it's a little exhausting, to be honest with you. Does it feel a little bit like I don't know Twitter's not real life and most of what people are talking about is Twitter and

you know maybe none of it really matters the toxic the quote unquote toxicity the criticism of the toxicity it's all just kind of noise do you ever think that? Sometimes I wonder

they write the articles just to get their reaction out of the fans because they know what's going to hit you know they know what's going to get comments or retweets or

quote tweets or whatever sometimes I wonder if maybe that might be what they're pushing for I mean you gotta pay the bill somehow yeah right no definitely not I understand that yeah

let's talk about the galaxy you guys just beat um could just beat LAFC that must feel good yeah it's it's always good to beat those guys

you know and I have friends who are LAFC fans I didn't watch the game but I saw the highlights It seemed like LASC was getting the better of the chances Is that wrong? I think the first half We might have been a little better

In the second half I think Vanney made some subs That to me were questionable And then we kind of sat back And gave the possession to LASC And they were just on our heels For about 20 minutes at the end But I mean

We kind of got lucky you with that last call. So you got to take it. You got to take the wins, man. Yep. Julian Araujo, he got like 22 minutes versus Panama for Mexico. What do you, like, what's your sort of update on, A, how he's playing for the galaxy and B, like what it's, what it's looking like his role is going to be for Mexico? Um, I mean, to be honestly, he's not have a good season so far. It's been a little disappointed. He had a pretty rough outing,

like a really rough outing early on, right? Yeah, he had a game where he gave up. I think it was against Seattle. He gave up. He was at fault for almost all the goals. So, I mean, it's one of those games he probably wants to forget about. But I don't know, his year is not lived up to expectations.

I don't know if it's mental. maybe he's not focused maybe he's thinking about other stuff maybe he's thinking about the move to Europe but you know you've got to play or else that move to Europe's not going to happen what's the latest on the move to Europe

no well there's nothing yet but that's like it's going to happen eventually he's if he keeps playing at the level that we're accustomed to seeing him play it's going to happen eventually thumbs up thumbs down he's going to go to the World Cup with Mexico. It comes down.

I don't think he's going to make it, unfortunately. Jorge Sanchez, who played decent against the U.S., kind of played decent against Pulisic there. I think he probably won the starting spot over Julian. So, you know, it's going to be hard to convince. They're going to need a backup. Shaka's not going to be there. He's out now, right?

Yeah, yeah. That's the only way he's. he'll get there as a backup. I don't see him starting for that team, unless there's injuries, of course. To me, it's more thumbs down that he's not going than thumbs up. What's the feeling about El Salvador?

Are you still happy with Hugo and what he's been doing? They're at the, currently the 120 is at Dallas Cup. They've done pretty well. I mean, they've been Tigres. They've tied with Bonterre and, They beat a team from Denmark. I forget the name. But they're looking good.

There are tons of dual gnats on that team. Yeah. Yeah. Tons of dual gnats on that team. Even guys who are eligible for Honduras, Salvador and the U.S., and Honduras, I'm sorry, Mexico, Salvador, and the U.S. So it's like a melting pot, you know,

but they're scouting, which is something that there's never really been done before they got there. Who's coaching the U-20s? Is it his son, his son, her son is coaching the under-20s? So he's looking good. He's got them kind of playing like his dad likes to play. So, you know, they want to implement a style of play, which seems positive to me.

So, I mean, as long as they have the support from the Federation, I think they'll be okay. Yeah, that harkens back to your conversation with him in the Twitter spaces, right? That was a Yeah That was fantastic Yeah I mean their goal is to You know

Qualify for the under 20 World Cup And you know That qualifies you for the Olympics But it's hard It's gonna be tough You know The U.S. Under 20 team is really good

The Mexico Under 20 team is really good So I mean They're up against it What group are they in? What group? Who's in El Salvador's group? I think they're in a group

With Panama I know for sure I can't remember the other team that's in there. But them and Panama are the favorites to get by. To come out of that group. Okay. Yeah, that's going to be a fun tournament. It starts June 18th, ends July 3rd.

You had something you want to talk about, which was MLS TV ratings. Yeah, I kind of wanted how MLS is kind of struggling for TV ratings right now. And to me it comes down to maybe the league not being appealing to those who don't have a team like yourself. You know, you don't have a club that you follow specifically, an MLS club. Why do you think, you know, is that, do you think one of the reasons why you don't follow MLSS as closely? I mean, I can't get deep on a team or my wife would kill me, you know, like, I already spend so much time on soccer. And I don't have time.

But I think to answer your question more like, I think the way you're asking it is, I mean, Minnesota United came into Minnesota when I was there. And, um. Correction. The club that was later rebranded as Minnesota United and admitted into MLS in 2017 was founded in 2010 before Bells moved to Minnesota. I don't know.

It just doesn't, grab me. I mean, I liked going to the games. The most exciting games I went to were Galaxy games because I wanted to see Julian Raho. But I don't know. And I think this could just be me making up something after the fact to try to explain it. But like, I look at this season right now. Like take for example, sporting Kansas City. Like they're, they're ass right now. Yeah. Yeah. But I've seen enough MLS season. I pay attention to MLS, right?

But I've seen enough MLS seasons sort of transpire that I know basically the first half of the season is meaningless. You know, as long as you don't, as long as you don't, you know, play yourself out of a chance of making the playoffs. These games that are happening right now, I like soccer, I enjoy soccer, I like watching soccer games, I like watching MLS soccer games. I like watching MLS soccer games, but I look at I look at sporting Kansas City right now. I'm like, they could, they could turn it around. They could figure it out and make a, make an MLS cup run. Basically anybody can. You don't, you have no idea.

And people talk about the lack of parity in Europe as a problem, you know, it's like, you know, the race in Germany is basically over already. The race, the race in England is very good. it's always the same couple of teams. Italy, for a long time, I was always Juventus. That's gotten a little more interesting. But I don't know, there's something about having dynasties and teams that are always good and teams that are less good that sort of makes it make sense as a fan. And if it's like, if it's just like a roll of the dice and like anybody could be the champion,

one year it can be the crew, the next year it can be, you know, and then the crew might not be that good the next year. It's just a little confusing for me. I don't know that that explains why I don't have a team, but it is something I think about. Does that make any sense? No, definitely. I mean, everybody likes dynasties like the Yankees when they were good or, you know, the Lakers Showtime when they were great. You know, that's kind of grabs people's attention in sports, especially in this country.

But you think another reason that maybe people can't get behind it is. it's not really grown organically. Like, it's not like your childhood team where it grew up in, like, the area where you're from. It just all of a sudden an investor came in and you had a team. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, what would that even look like in America, you know, to have a organically grown soccer club?

Yeah. Are you taking us to pro row? No. I mean, I don't think ProRELs is going to, maybe not in, I'll probably old if that ever happens, you know, it's going to be forever. I don't think that's going to happen. But just, you know, just like the way some U.S.L teams kind of like grow, kind of like, dress more like organically in the U.S.L. But they just don't have the money to ever become what MLS is right now. Yeah, well, you know, where I live now.

Chattanooga. I basically live in Chattanooga. I live in suburban Chattanooga. They have a Chattanooga football club, which is very like organically grown club. I think it's, I can't remember what league it's part of. I think it's part of the NPSL or something. But they refused to be part of USL because USL came in and bigfooted them and just ignored them and started Chattanooga Red Wolves, this other club, you know. And there's a lot of animosity. between the two clubs. But I'm a rec soccer coach. You know, I coach my,

I coach in the local rec association now. And Chattanooga football, the CFC is what everybody calls it here. CFC has been so helpful to local rec associations. They bring coaches in. They help, like, they help with training. There's going to be a jamboree at the big field that the,

that they play on. And, like, I'm going to take my, kids, they're going to play four or five games. There's going to be food trucks and then everybody gets to go to a game for free. It's like cool stuff like that, you know. So as I was saying, what would that even look like in America? This is what it would look like, kind of, I think. Yeah. But there's no pathway for CFC to be anything, you know, big and famous. They just have to like keep grinding with good intentions. I think that's a shame. Definitely. Or maybe

I don't know, maybe the big MLS clubs need to work more with the local, local teams, you know, working, you know, team up or something like that. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I'm not an expert on all that. Are they, are they, like, how does, how is the galaxy with that kind of stuff? How is L-AFC? I know LFC did try that whenever they were coming in. They did reach out to a lot of local small clubs and they, that. actually did pretty well.

Their academy is pretty good. The Galaxy, not that much to an extent in their academy is okay. I don't think it should be, I think it should be a lot better than it is, to be honest with you. It's kind of disappointing. But, you know, to me, that's like the key to grow it. Yeah. I mean, the Galaxy Academy has been good. I guess it's not now, you don't think?

I mean, they're just not bringing enough players to play for the first team. They're all playing in, you know, USL. Yeah. I saw Alejandro Alvarado got his first start in, well, I guess it was his first league start for Vizela. Yeah, in Portugal. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I forgot where I read. He was like the youngest foreign player to debut.

Yeah. I think that was Chuck who put that up. Yeah. There have been nine teenagers who started a game in Portugal this season. Eight of them were Portuguese. Yeah. One of them was American. I watched his clips.

He looked like he belonged. He didn't look like amazing or anything, but he looked like he belonged and he was physically pretty good. You know, like he was strong and he looked strong and fast. Yeah, I know hopefully he does well out there. You know, unfortunately, a player that we didn't get to play for our club, but, you know, good luck to him. We know why. You don't want to get into that. No, I don't want to get into that.

Maybe, maybe in a couple of weeks. Yeah, for sure. What are your top two criticisms of Burrhalter today? Give me your most. Actually, I don't have criticism, but I actually have praise for Burrhalter. I can't just criticize him all the time. I got to give him credit to. Yeah.

What's your praise then? I kind of like how he, you know, kind of took a shot at Doyle there, you know, saying that, you know, pretty much to throw the game at Mexico or, like, not go for it, you know? Yeah. And then his, him pushing back on the whole toxic, you know, fans' narrative. I thought that was pretty cool. He basically said what you said, which is like people care more, right? Isn't that what he said?

Yeah, which is kind of cool because I'm pretty sure he's probably the person who's criticized the most in U.S. soccer, Twitter, easily. Yeah, for sure. All right. Jay's got two praises for Burrhalter tonight. Yeah, I always give him credit when he deserves it. Yeah, you're even-handed. Are we going to get a friendly in LA? You know what I had heard a rumor that was before the draw that Argentina might be rumor to play.

But that was going to be paired with Mexico also playing against them. Oh, yeah. And they can't do that because they're in the same group. Yeah, they're in the same group. So they're not going to be able to play. So, I mean, that's kind of wondering what, who again, Mexico has, I think, five friendlies lined up or something like that. we gotta get going there yeah i saw

wasn't it stephen golf who reported earlier this week they're going to be announced maybe next week or something yeah yeah there's a rumor gana might be it one of the teams i saw that rumor too i have no idea where that came from or how serious it is but who would you like for us to play like what kind of teams or what conference would you like us to play against

i mean it'd be nice to get a european team but those Man, their schedules are so packed. I mean, they all play each other because of UAFA Nations League. So, yeah, Uruguay would be great. Ghana would be, I think, about as good as we could hope for since we can't get anybody from Europe. Yeah, so unfortunate. Man, we really need to test ourselves with teams

are going to play a certain style, you know, like a low block, which is something we're going to face again. So, I mean, hopefully you get decent rivals. I mean, Ghana's a good opponent. You know, I mean, I'm not, I'm not disappointed about that. No, definitely. Tell me your impressions of Orlando. We met briefly outside the stadium, but didn't talk that much.

What did you think of it? What did you think of the scene? What did you think of the stadium? The fans. I like the vibe, man. I really enjoyed myself in Orlando. I felt like there was a more diverse crowd in Orlando than what was at Columbus. Yeah, I definitely, the stadium was nice.

I really enjoyed the game at the stadium. Weather was perfect. Oh, it was so nice. So, I mean, you know, and we saw a good soccer game. Yeah. It was a weird game, though, don't you think? Like, we didn't play that well in the first 20 minutes, but we're still up to zero? Yeah.

I mean, we made some mistakes in the back. I thought we were a little. a little loose in possession. We didn't, uh, we really didn't, uh, get a hold of the game right away.

But, you know, that's okay. We, we, we, we picked it up after the, after we went up to zero. It felt like that third goal in particular was nice.

Yeah. You saw the morale of Panama just kind of, you know, reality hit him that it, it was over for them, you know? You think we're ever going to beat, uh, Costa Rica?

In Costa Rica? I mean, we don't have to play them now for qualifiers. For like a decade. It might be a good thing. That game was weird. I thought Burrhalter put a good enough lineup to get the win. You know, mistakes in the back, and we paid for it. How do you, do you, look, I don't, I don't, I don't, I know that Matt Turner's had his mistakes.

and Horvath, we don't know. You know, he was good in Nations League, but how do you feel about Zach Stephan now? He needs to play somewhere, man. He needs to get alone or something because it's just not cutting it to be a backup anymore. He's not sharp. He's not game sharp.

He needs to, you know, I don't even care what league he plays in right now. He needs to be playing. Yeah. One other thing we should talk about is Pulisic and his performance for Chelsea. He's getting a lot of criticism of Chelsea fans now after they got kicked out of the Champions League.

He missed a couple of chances. What's your take on all that? I mean, it's just pretty rough because, you know, we all love Christian and, you know, we want him to do well. But that's kind of the thing when you play for a big club. You know, expectations are, their expectations are kind of too crazy, you know. So you're going to get fans who, you know, expect you to perform every single minute that you're on the field. And, you know, unfortunately, his game wasn't that great, you know, missed two opportunities.

I don't think they're as clear as people are saying or Chelsea fans think they're a little more difficult. But, I mean, that's kind of how it is, you know, playing for a big club. Yeah. We're defending him because there are people piling on, you know. And, you know, that's like, that's our guy, you know, so people are piling on, you know, waiting for him to have a bad game. I mean, I've been critical of Pulisic, probably more critical than most over the course of qualifying.

Like, he obviously had a good game against Panama, but I don't know. I don't know that he's the same player that he was a couple years ago. I noticed he's not as explosive as he used to be. He's not blowing by guys like he used to. It's definitely not. I don't know how you could disagree with that. It's probably injuries or I don't know if his injuries or if he's mentally not wanting to push himself so he won't get injured. You go back and watch those highlights.

I mean, I'm just taking his club play out of it completely. Watch the highlights from that Panama game in 2000. He was just sizzling, you know, like unstoppable one-v-one. And he's not like that anymore. Even when he has a really good game like he did against Panama a few weeks ago, it wasn't because he was beating people 1-v-1. Yeah, you're right. And actually, you look at that friendly he had against England.

When we played over there and I think it was in London or Wembley, Wembley Stadium. We lost 3-0, was it? We lost, but if you saw the highlights, he was cooking those England defenders, man. You're like, what? This kid is amazing. And I don't want to be too down on him, you know, because we need him. We do.

We do. But something's up, and I don't know if it's mental or if it's physical. Yeah, people are suggesting to let him take the. whole summer off or, you know, let him get some rest. I don't know. The fear I have is that, like you said, it's the injury, like you suggested it might be the injuries that just take a toll after a certain amount of time and you're not as explosive.

I mean, that's the, that's my fear, but I'm no doctor. I'm no doctor. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you even see it with the Jordan Morris, too. Yeah. He's not as explosive as he used to. He used to be.

We're mere mortals. I mean, that means he'll just have to reinvent his game, you know? You'll have to figure out other ways to beat his players' defender 1v1 or maybe use his teammates a little better. And he has, you know, he has reinvented his game to some extent. Like he's much better at, to use a Burrhalter phrase, arriving in the box than he was. I think back when he was cooking people at Dortmund. Yeah. Pulling for him.

I'm with you. I'm pulling for him. Yeah. No, I mean, if it's mental, then, you know, he'll just have to figure that out on his own. I assume he will. He's been up against a lot in his career and he seems like he always comes back. Yeah, he always prevails. You know, he's strong mentally.

I mean, you don't play at a team like Chelsea if you're weak-minded. No. I can't even imagine. The pressure. All the criticism. It's crazy. Yeah. But, I mean, it's founds because you've got to be used to it.

We want our guys to play at Juventus. We want our guys to play at Barcelona. You know, we want our guys at Dornment. It comes with the territory. You know, they're not always going to be praising and flowers and all that stuff. You know, you guys, sometimes they're going to trash our guys and sucks, but we got to take it. Yeah. Last topic I have, but I'm open to

whatever else you want to talk about is the Nations League fixtures. I saw you tweet, like, I hate to be the guy who says this, but plan in these Nations League fixtures is not going to help us at all. I mean, what should we do? What can we do about it? Unfortunately, we're kind of stuck in this conflict. I mean, there's other points we've got to play in. I mean, it's a blessing and it's a curse, right?

It's a blessing because qualifying is probably easier. Yeah. But it's a curse because, man, we're not testing ourselves. We don't know how good we are right now. You know, playing away in El Salvador is, you know, that might be a little difficult, you know. Oh, that'll be a fun. Come on. That'll be a fun challenge.

And, like, they, we drew them last time. Let's go there and win. I mean, I'll do respect, you know. I think they might, Malasabro might go young. You know, they might want to try some new players because their plan is to, they're working towards 2026. So they might, you know, might run out a couple younger players now. Are you getting in person's DMs?

Getting the scoop? No, I've been asking them about the under 20, man. There's this kid. I'm telling you, there's a kid. Harold Osorio, kids good. But MLS teams Yes, go get that kid. He's good.

Is he play in El Salvador? He plays in El Salvador. He plays for Alianza. He's 19. He's a midfielder, creative, good on the ball. He's legit. I'd like to see him. Anything else you want to talk about?

No, I mean, I really appreciate you inviting me again. Don't thank me. Don't thank me. Thank you. I told you it would be 30 minutes and we're right at the 30 minute mark, but like, you sure? Anything else on your mind, soccer-wise? I can't think of anything right now.

Okay. Yeah, I think I'm good. Okay. Hey, thanks everybody for listening. Thank you, Jay. Talk to you again soon. I see you guys soon. We'll see you.