Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #272: Meg Swanick on away qualifiers, binoculars, team chemistry

Episode Date: April 20, 2022

Meg Swanick, who writes for the Guardian US and covered every away World Cup qualifier played by the USMNT in this cycle, joins to be interviewed by Chris Russell (Watke) and take questions from listeners live on the air in the Scuffed Discord. Binoculars, whether Berhalter holds grudges, the bus ride to the Cuscatlan, the camaraderie of Weah and Yedlin, the best coffee in Concacaf, and many other things were discussed.Here's Meg's new Substack: https://swandive.substack.com/And here she is on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Meg_Swanicksupport Scuffed on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedjoin the Discord: https://discord.gg/X6tfzkM8XU buy our merch: https://my-store-11446477.creator-spring.com/drop us a question at this link and we’ll try to answer it: https://forms.gle/rfzSEZJwsvnWSCxW7 Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuffed podcast. I'm Adam Bells in Georgia. With me is Greg Velasquez in Iowa. We talk about U.S. men's soccer. This is a call-in show with Meg Swanick. I'm going to turn it over to Waki and her to drive the conversation, but a couple points of order. I'll be running the switchboard. Raise your hand if you'd like to ask a question. Once I bring you on to this virtual stage to say something, please state your name and location. That's very important to me. And then just jump right into your question. Okay, Chris, take it away. All right, Meg Swanick writes about U.S. soccer in the Philadelphia Union. Her work appears in the Guardian and her recently launched substack, Thwandav. She's a keen observer. She's an experienced traveler and reported from 13 of the 14 games this past qualifying cycle. Meg, how are you doing, and where are you?

I am doing wonderful, and I am still in San Jose, Costa Rica for a few more hours. For right now, I want to get into some soccer stuff. All right, you got a pair of binoculars right before the November window. And I think this is a really smart move. Did you use the binoculars throughout the rest of qualifying? What sort of details, whenever you're using them, were you trying to look for? And did you make any discoveries that you think are important to share with us? Actually, I have to give credit to Ron Bloom from the Associated Press.

In the first window, there were just certain things that would be. happening before the game or during the game that you couldn't quite see either in the stands or on the field. And Ron, he, I don't know if you guys are all familiar or would recognize him from press conferences. He's my favorite question, asker. But he's like a bull in a china shop. He just, he just asks the sort of like obvious but sort of silly question sometimes. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's quite a very distinctive voice too. He sounds like he would be a lot of fun to hang out with. Go on though. Yeah, he does. I really enjoy Ron and he's like older and he he's got an interesting presence in the press box and he

definitely um yeah he's just an interesting guy and so he had binoculars and I was jealous of his binoculars in that first window and the number of times where I saw him like pull out the binoculars and I was like oh man I have to get a pair um so I made a point to get myself a pair and you're right that I didn't have them until the November window because I forgot until then um once I did have the binoculars. They were pretty clutch on a number of occasions. Whether that's just like looking at warm-ups and really being able to see like what players doing, what it's a bit voyeuristic, to be honest with you to be pulling out your binoculars and being like, oh, he's doing this over there. But yeah, it's just easier, I think, to identify players and what they're doing

on the field or coaching staff and maybe what they're doing on the sideline for either team and also people in the stands and kind of snooping and seeing what's happening there as well. Were there any particular in that you get to games very early, like in one case, I think five hours early, which in that time, I guess the players don't come out until much later than that. But are there any players who stand out for a particularly distinctive warm-up style? Or are there groups of players that tend to emerge? Or are there any other patterns you noticed? It is interesting. And that is one of the things I like to pay attention to actually.

So the arrival time kind of shifts a bit. And so it was five hours before El Salvador and some other games. Other times it's a bit closer. So it varies a bit, but usually the media are the first people there. And then well, usually the fans in El Salvador preceded us. And they were like half full by three hours out. But yeah, I really like to pay attention to, with my binocs, the players as they come in. And also how they come in.

and what they do. And I do think that there's, in terms of what players tend to come onto the field first, it does tend to be a lot of maybe expected leaders and veterans like Christian Polisik or Tyler Adams tend to be among the first to come onto the field. They might come out and walk around, look at the stands, just stand there by themselves. Maybe they have headphones on. It seemed to be deep in thought before they go back into the locker room and then come out with the team.

And I'm trying to remember, I wish I could tell you exactly which players, but there was a group of five of them who came out and did this together at the Azteca before the Mexico game. And it was, I know that Tyler Adams and Polisick were in there. I think it was Anthony Robinson, Kellan Acosta, and I'm missing who the other one was. But they came out the five of them together. And they were kind of doing that together, just taking it in and walking around in circles. and it was just an interesting moment, I imagine, for them. And then I kind of enjoyed, like, at the end of this big octagonal, just like watching that happening as they walked around

and took in the stadium and the game that was about to happen in the window ahead of them. I'm probably too interested in binoculars for whatever reason. I have one more binocular question. Do you ever use them during the game in stoppages? Or is it, does it get to? Yeah, I absolutely do. So if like something's happening on the field and I want to, first of all, just to make sure that I know which player is doing what, but, you know, if there's a bit of like a shoving match happening or something like that, I definitely pull out my binoculars to see what's happening in the scrum. So situations like that, I'm definitely pulling out the players.

I have no sure. I think it's pretty nervous. How much time do you have this binoculars clocked on Greg Burrhalter? And what's your general impression of him during the game? is what I really would like to get at. Are you trying to recruit me to analyze Greg's... I think everyone should. I think we need a lot of people, but most of all you.

Yes. I have to be honest, I've been less focused on Greg, but every now and then my bedoculars do go over to Greg, I suppose. I guess I do see why there's not a whole lot of reason to actually focus on Greg. So I appreciate you kind of, you know, focusing on the actual game. Yeah, you have the analysis down, but I can try to, you know, work that into the rotation in the future. So you're also there for the post-game press conferences, which are a fascinating little spectacle. And you've talked in particular about how Christian Pulitzer can sometimes seem sad in them.

And then I put Antidramis, not necessarily in the press conference, but in general, that's kind of on the opposite end of him, on the kind of happy, sad player spectrum. In seeing these players up close, have you developed any other mental models for organizing them, like calmness or some tense? And are there any players that stand out to you as being indifferent in person than maybe what the consensus is of them on the Internet or people who do not have the opportunity to be in these press conferences? That's really interesting. So one, and this is nitpicky. I don't know. So with Christian, I don't know if sad is specifically the word. I would definitely say serious. I think he can sometimes be defensive of the media. Like he can feel the narratives forming and being put on whatever's happening. So I've definitely seen him be a bit defensive of questions, like sensing already what the headline's going to be with the question someone asked. For example, after the whole Mexico game when he was asked about the man in the mirror and his response was, you know, I don't want this to be a whole. thing. So I definitely think he has, especially playing for Chelsea and in the UK, I think he has a sense for the media kind of forming these stories and trying to work things out of him. And so I

definitely see him get defensive a bit and maybe guarded for that reason. And in terms of the sadness, I mean, somber is a synonym, but I was going to say I see him as being more somber than sad. Yeah, I think serious. I think that he cares a lot about U.S. soccer and he cares a lot about being a leader for this team on the field. And that really shows when the team doesn't perform. You can feel it on him as soon as he comes in the room. I really respect that about him. I think he has a lot of heart and investment in the success of this team. And yeah, so I would say serious. I would say he can be sometimes defensive. What is Tyler Adams like? He's a little feisty, to be honest with you, which I also like. But he also, he also

I would say gets a little bit defensive. He's great with media though in terms of he'll give longer answers and he will work with you and give you good feedback on himself or on how he thinks the team plays. But I think he can be protective or a little bit feisty sometimes, which I like in a captain and in Tyler Adams. I think probably players that are the easiest to talk to and this might come across you touched on it like antony robinson is pretty willing i think to first of all talk to media in the first place like we'll ask for certain players to come talk to us and then uh michael

camerman will go fetch them um and sometimes that player asks for it comes sometimes not but i feel like walker zimmerman as well is usually really willing to talk to the media he was the first one to come out after the costa rica game and talk to us for a while people were giving him so many questions kellen acosta is another one He came out of the locker room and wasn't supposed to talk to media and just got swarmed by media and is so just like calm and pleasant to talk to. And he was willing to talk to us forever, but one of the assistant coaches came and got him and was like, okay, enough, leave him alone. I've always thought that Walker Zimmerman in particular is kind of the player they roll out when no one else wants to talk. Absolutely.

Kind of like their default guy who's just going to go out there and do the job. Absolutely, which I think is, so after the Costa Rica game, they were in there. celebrating and I think he got pulled out because we were all out there waiting for quite a while looking for people to talk to and they weren't coming out, which good for them. You know, I hope they were celebrating. They don't have that much time together. I think to savor those moments. So I don't really have a problem that they were lingering together in the locker room. But yeah, Walker's and Women was the first to come out and it was a while before anyone else did. And he was getting a lot of questions. And yeah, he handles it really well. All right. I want to turn toward unless Adam,

you have questions about any more players. I would like to turn toward Burrhalter in particular in the postgame press conferences because I think he deserves a closer examination. Okay. I do want to get into some like specific, some more specific geographical stuff, but let's do Burrhalter first. Okay. So coach press conferences in particular, I think are distinct from the player ones in that

and this is something that's been a conversation in particular. I think Berhaler maybe talked about it on the Warshall podcast or maybe Warshall brought it up. but the coach is speaking to multiple audience. He's speaking to the media, the fans, and then also the players are listening. And on this topic you've said, and this is a paraphrase,

so you can correct me if I got it a little bit wrong, but you said, I feel like there's a lot of verbal gymnastics by Burrhalter done to make sure the individual mentalities are doing okay. And that in itself concerns me, that there's a lot of individual mental realities that need catering to. when you say a lot, I'm just trying to get a sense of this goal.

How many are we talking here? And are there, we're not going to name players here, but are there any personalities that decidedly do not need catering to? Yeah, I like that question. I don't know if you had anything to add. Did I cut you off? No, that was the end of the question. Okay.

And maybe that, I did say that and I still mean, that maybe that's harsh of me though I do think this is one of the scenarios where the youth could be a factor I mean a lot of these players are young there's a few I don't necessarily want to name names but I think that there's a few where you could tell that they're working through whether it's confidence or getting into a rhythm with the team or feeling like they're performing to where they want to be or living up to hype that they're aware of about them. I think you can definitely sense that the pressure is felt on a few players. You know, there's a lot of pressure put on this team just from themselves and how they want to perform,

but also the hype of this being the golden generation and the team that's going to do it all. I mean, I think that they hear and see and read what is said about them. And I definitely think that puts a lot of pressure on a lot of young players. And not all of them, but I think some of them definitely feel that, especially if they're not in form or not really playing well. either with their clubs or with the US. So I wouldn't say that like, I don't like people to have this idea that behind the scenes, they're all kind of in mental disarray.

But I do think that with such a young team, I think Greg does and the team and the Federation put effort into supporting them. And then when it comes to, well, you asked to, so let me, I'll get that and let me put that on hold for a second. You asked if there's any players where that's decidedly not the case. So who has a really strong mental presence? I mean, I do, I worry about the pressure on, on Poliswick. I do think that he has a strong mental presence though. I mean, I think he's pretty

resilient and handles the incredible pressure that we do put on him really well and the pressure that Chelsea puts on him really well, all things considered, even though he's serious and you can definitely tell that he's feeling it. I think he handles it well all things considered. Serious, somber, and sometimes even sad. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, when you think about the things that he's asked to do and the media and the criticisms and social media and all the pressure on him, I think overall he handles it well,

even though you can tell he feels it and shows it. I think that D'Andre Yedlin, it shouldn't be underestimated, like how just calm and cool he is and the effect that he has on his teammates. I think he's an important presence for that reason. And he's older. He's not one of the younger players. So the comment about this being maybe partially a youth thing doesn't apply to him. But I think that he is strong of mind and has a really great personality in the locker room.

That's infectious. Am I off base to kind of group Tim Wea in the DeAndre Yedlin cohort, not necessarily in terms of personality, but they seem to operate together? They're inseparable. Yeah. They, yeah, absolutely. They go around together and they hang out together outside of the team, on the team, and are really, really close. And I definitely think that maybe even Biondre has taken him under his wing. You know, there's like a brotherly aspect to them, I think. And they'll do, the two of them actually did like a media exclusive press conference in Costa Rica where it was just the two of them. it wasn't erred to the public and it was interesting to get them talking about their friendship and their relationship. So I think absolutely they're pretty close and I think that DeAndre's leadership is being passed on to to Weya in that way. How many not aired, how many media availability like that are not aired? So for those octagonal, they try to do them at the away qualifiers and they didn't do it at all of them and I missed a few to be

honestly because of traveling they might have done it when I was getting into town or I was in a different city but they did it with Musa and Weya in Panama they did it with um Joe Scali actually and um Zach Stefan in Jamaica they did it with um deandre and Tim way in Costa Rica. And that was it. Hey, this is Bells jumping in after the fact to say that we are an ad-free podcast and we make money through Patreon. So please consider subscribing to our Patreon.

The link is in the show notes. That would give you access to the Discord, which is where we're recording this show that you're listening to right now and also gives you access to the Monday reviews and some other patron-only content, including video. Now back to Meg and Waki. Jake of FIFA America asked if you think Greg holds grudges and you responded, yeah, for sure. You did it very quickly. And I was wondering, is the yeah for sure, as in every person hold grudges?

So, of course, Greg does too. Or is there something in particular about Greg that leads to you believe that he is more inclined than normal to hold grudges than the average person? And what's, if so, what's the smallest possible grudge? You can imagine him holding a grudge over. It can be real or hypothetical. I realize this is a very difficult question. I basically just went through stuff you said and took out the most interesting stuff.

But do you have anything about this grudge situation? I think he holds grudges normal for the average coach. I think I mean, I think people hold grudges. I think managers hold grudges. I think Greg holds grudges. I feel like grudges have a negative connotation. But I do think that it's apparent to me that certain players either in their,

probably less so in their performances, but more so in their general attitude and buy into what he's trying to build and the system. I think when people express, express like maybe two vocal antipathy to that or are you can bat up to that. I feel like that is detrimental to what he is trying to build in terms of his system and his style of play

in the atmosphere, he wants in camp. And I think that's understandable in a coach, to be honest with you, but I definitely think that that has impacted a few players. And the smallest possible grudge is, I think after his last interview, I feel like maybe he has a grudge against your analysis. So you might be the smallest possible grudge. That, yeah. Yeah, that would be pretty small. I would like to him for him to have a grudge against me. Do you, when you're asking him questions, Have you kind of massaged how you word them? Or how do you think about balancing,

asking a question that you want to know the answer to versus a question that he can actually answer versus not saying something that will upset your ability to ask future questions? Yeah, I think there's a balance that has to be had with players and with coaches in terms of what you just said, asking them questions that they'll answer. Like, for example, you can't go into a press conference the day before a match day and just ask for the lineup because you're not going to get the lineup kind of thing.

It took quite a while to get some tangible feedback on things like John Brooks as well. And I think sometimes it takes a bit of teamwork from different members of the media all asking that question. For Greg, I mean, yes is the short answer. I think that you have to, like you always have to kind of put thought into what he's willing to answer, what you're likely to get a response about. And then also kind of having him or having other players on your good side kind of thing. I think that that plays into it a little bit as well, especially with Greg. But he's pretty, I mean, he, I don't see him really like snapping at media, but he's, you know, he doesn't always. give too much to the media as well.

I think that that's one of the reasons his most recent podcast went over so well with the fan base and with media as well is that there was a lot in there after qualification. I feel like maybe he feels like he can really answer some questions. And I think that one of my biggest frustrations with Greg is that you get a lot of expected responses, but you don't get a lot of answers with meat on them. I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't know if that answered your question. I also don't think he has a grudge against you, but he did have a funny response.

No, he's, I, I like him, I think, more than almost everyone does for whatever reason. I think it's because I only watch him and you start to appreciate, you know, the little things he does. Do you, do you have any questions about press conferences? I'm going to pivot away from that otherwise into a new line of questioning. No, I will say. I will say I would like for open it up for questions. Ask a question, please raise your hand. Go ahead, Rob.

All right. So Meg, a couple questions. So I was in Costa Rica, and I remember before the match started that there was a ton of fireworks being, you know, being sent to the sky, almost like they needed to get rid of them before they expired or something. But then I also remember in El Salvador, they were shooting off fireworks in the middle of the game. So is there, do you know of any, like, Concord Cuff regulation that says you cannot light off fireworks, you know, after the whistle blows?

Or is it really up to like, hey, you know, it is what it is, whatever. You know, do you know, like, is there like any, like, regulations saying it kind of restricts you from making noise, you know, kind of out, within the game? Yeah, that's a, I mean, that's a good question. They definitely, it was a nice little bookend moment, I think, that we started and ended with

fireworks there. I don't know that it was entirely intentional that the fireworks were going on when the game started in El Salvador. I think it was, well, potentially, but they went on for quite a while, actually. And while it added some kind of cool atmosphere for, for me personally, I don't know if it affected the players negatively, but, I, yeah. I actually do not know if Concaf has an official fireworks during play policy. I kind of feel like they probably don't.

They shouldn't. There should be no rules regarding it. They should just have that it. It's my opinion of it. Yeah. I'm pro. I'm pro fireworks during the game. But I could see it getting hectic if there's no regulations on who's setting off the fireworks.

And, you know. Speaking of chaos, you tweeted about a series. of children running child pitch invaders against El Salvador and Columbus. How many were the total and what factors do you think contributed to this happening? You didn't make it on television, by the way. Yeah, it was pretty funny, to be honest with you. The game had ended and I feel like there might have been a few parents like telling their players, their kids to run on or giving them to go ahead.

it wasn't always just like sneaky children running off onto the field. There were definitely a few like approving nods. But some of them I think were sneaky children, which had just run onto the field. Numbers wise, I would say at least six or seven. It was a while ago. Can I let me jump in and say thank you, Rob, for the question. And can I, I want to ask a question. Kusatlan in El Salvador.

You know, that seems, I think you've said that that was the most electric atmosphere of any of the away qualifiers. And I wonder if you could sort of try to explain why. And then I have a couple follow-up questions about that place, because it's kind of captured my imagination. I think that there's a lot of factors. I think that one thing is that it was the first match of the entire octagonals.

And El Salvador, you know, they'd been waiting for that moment. Nothing had happened yet. All the hopes of their team qualifying were just starting. And so you have all of that and you're going into it being the first game it's at home, it's against the US. All those things had months and months of buildup

and excitement adding to it. We got there at five hours out and they were already fans there and it's the only time that a sizable number of fans, if any, were there before we were. And by the time it was a LGM was full,

I mean they really, really got there early and we're cheering the whole time. the music was on, they were chanting. And I think that that lands itself to the atmosphere because they're not just there early and filling up the stadium, but they're also getting each other excited. It's like a giant festival in the stands for hours

before the game has even started. That lens of the general atmosphere. I'm sure the players could hear that. I think that impacts the players. You know, when you're in the tunnel or in the locker room and then coming out, you can already hear the fans going wild. from like the press box perspective is really fun for me because it was a bit chaotic to be honest with you there's not really a press box we were just in the stands surrounded by fans and so we were just in a row sitting on this like bleacher like stands in a corner with like our laptops and notebooks on our kind of thing and then there's standing in, we were just right literally in the middle of everything.

It was like a cool first game to be writing in the act talk and all trying to like write an article on my lap with all these fans going nuts around us and all the chaos of that moment. I also think that the stadium itself lends itself to that kind of energy and atmosphere. I mean, it's a place. I think it's built so that the fans are right on top of the field and on top of the players. I think that lends itself to the energy and atmosphere. Yeah, I think it's the design of the stadium. I think it's the fact that it was the first game of the octagonal.

And I also think it's just the passion of the Salvadoran fans in that moment when it was just getting started. And they felt like they could come out and have a good result against the U.S. and maybe qualify for a World Cup. Yeah. How did you get to the stadium? Like, and what's the, is it like, is it in a poorer neighborhood of San Salvador or a, or a wealthier neighborhood? Like, what's, what's, like, around it? Because it's kind of tucked up against one of those mountains you mentioned earlier, isn't it?

So it's a bit out of town. I think that I'm not too familiar with the neighborhood around it. I think it's not a wealthier neighborhood. I think San Salvador in general has, has, some wealthy neighborhoods but I don't think we were in one of them. We did stay in, I think, the wealthier neighborhood actually, the media hotel that was in. And it was about maybe a half hour, a little bit more of a drive to where the stadium was. They have a media bus which picks you up from the hotel. And then for that game, we actually had like a police escort and the traffic

was insane already with people going to the game. I mean, this is now, we got there five hours early, so we're leaving. This is like six hours before the game started. And the traffic was crazy with people, like getting to the stadium, they're flying flags from their car, they're cheering as we pass. I don't know who we are, but they're cheering anyway. And, you know, people hanging out in the beds of trucks and there, maybe some of them are drinking in the bed of the truck and they've got the Osablora and flag.

So that was cool because... we were able to, first of all, evade the traffic because we had that police escort, which was nice because there was a lot of traffic. But it was cool getting to go through the crowd that was heading to the stadium and the party was starting way out back where we were staying and they were all heading to the stadium. And as we got to the stadium, it was packed around it with like food vendors and people singing or dancing or hanging out. So there were people everywhere And we had to like weave in through the crowd with the media shuttle to get to where we were going into the game. And, you know, the fans as the media shuttle were coming through and it was parting.

And the fans, they were like yelling at the media bus and stuff. So yeah, pretty. That whole experience was just really, really incredible. You tweeted once that on the media shuttle, they were playing Abba. Is this the federation that makes this decision? Who is there a consistent playlist? What's the general media situation? Not media, music situation on these bus rides.

Yeah, so usually there's not really music, to be honest with you. And it's just very serious media people who might be talking about players or just concentrating on their story. But they hire local shuttles. And one of the things that's so much fun about going to the away qualifiers is that the local flavor

comes to life. in not just in the stadium but in everything around it too and that was in jamaica i believe and um the driver who was a pretty cool guy um he who he brought us to all the games on that media shuttle and i feel like every time we got on the media shuttle something interesting was happening on the radio either one time it was like a horse race and he had this horse race um just like local radio i think is what we were listening to really so the local radio was just like narrating some horse race really enthusiastic. That had us all really enthralled for that one ride.

And then I think that was on our way to something. And then on the way back, it was Abba. Yeah. So that was just local Jamaican radio. Speaking of Jamaica, after the game, you went to a remote, kind of suburb type place, but remote called Irish Town. Yes. You mentioned that you hung out there for a while.

And there, among other things, was a man painting in the, the trees and I was just that's a I mean it's a pretty specific question but I was wondering what did that mean was he climbing up in the trees and painting the trees or was he painting a canva he had a deep bring a canvas up there what what was the painting in the trees thing so actually those are two separate Jamaican experiences so I did I went to two different places after Kingston the first is Irish town which is Kingston is surrounded by mountains. All of these cities I think might be, truly. And Irish Town is up in the mountains.

I actually stole the idea from Grant Wall because I had some time after the game, but I hadn't decided where to go yet when the game was happening. And so he had stayed in Irish town and he was like, yeah, it's great. And I was like, you know what, that's a good idea. So I went to Irishtown for a few days and I was staying in an Airbnb up there and I had a really great time. I was kind of in like the guest home area of this older Jamaican couple. And the mother, we were very close friends by the time I left. She was trying to sew me clothes. She sows clothes and so she was trying to teach me how to sell and trying to sew me clothes.

And she would like cut down sugar cane for me in the morning and stuff like that. So I had a good few days up in the mountains in Irish town. But then after that I went, I stayed at another Airbnb. I forget the name of it, but it was just, honestly, a random Airbnb that I found that was on the coast in like a very small fishing village. And it, yeah, it was right on the coast. And my next door neighbor who was like part caretaker of the Airbnb, his name is Morris. Morris is the painting man. And so he, the Airbnb that I stayed in was like partially owned by this British couple. but they host it in partnership with Morris.

And Morris is like a real Rastafarian man who was teaching me all about the Rastafarian culture and religion. And he is a painter and a sculptor actually. So I stayed with, I stayed there for a week and yeah, he, we hung out and he would paint. And there were trees, but in the trees, he was below the trees. He was painting amongst the trees. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, I thought, okay, I see, I, that's why I had to ask. I thought there might be a tree painting thing.

I'm sure someone somewhere is doing that, but yeah, that sounds a little bit more exciting. I hate to disappoint, but he was at the foot of the tree painting. I'm not disappointed. It's just good to know. Although I wish there would maybe a little bit at the point. You've been to three World Cups. Are you going to go to this next one? You know, I have to be honest.

I mean, I kind of like the idea of just watching this one at home. I don't know. I mean, I love to travel. I love to experience everywhere. It's hard to convince me there's anywhere that's not worth checking out. But I'm not dying to go to Qatar as much as I was really dying to go to Russia, for example. So I've always wanted to go to Russia and really wanted to take that opportunity, even though the U.S. wasn't there. So you did in Russia and after you stayed after and you took a train from Moscow to Beijing, right?

What did it look like outside the train? I've always been, it's the Trans-Ciberian Railroad. What does it look like outside and how does it change throughout that train ride? Wow. So it's quite a bit of land distance that you're covering. And actually, I don't know if people realize this, but the Trans-Siberian is not like one solid route. It's just a really impressive network. has an incredible train system that people use. It's nice. You, I love taking trains. I love

taking overnight trains. I don't know why I like traveling. I like to sleep on trains and like wake up in the morning and be on a train. But it's, it's kind, you kind of pick your route, which is fun because it's not, you can get out. And so I did. I stopped. I started in Moscow and then I stopped in Kazan, in Yucatranburg in Kras. I stopped in Mongolia. I stopped in Mongolia. and then I ended in Beijing. And it's cool because if you pull out a map, you're covering an incredible amount of distance. And Russia is a really diverse country culturally,

as well as in terms of the landscape. So in certain parts, it's a lot of fir trees, and it looks like Siberia. And in other parts, it's a little bit different, and it's a lot of villages, and it's really cool just to watch that whole country shift and then turn into Mongolia and then turn into China. So, yeah, it looks like a lot of different.

different things, but I really enjoy trains and I recommend if anyone, if that's on anyone's bucket list, I'm happy to make recommendations. Did you stop in Mongolia? Did you do a stop off in Mongolia? I did. Yeah. What was Mongolia like? Mongolia is really cool.

The capital, Ulaan Batar, is a third of the country lives there. It's a really hectic, large city. But again, I love really hectic large cities. I have to be honest that at that point, I'm usually like a pretty low maintenance traveler. I don't really need a lot. I'm happy to sleep on a train for weeks at a time. But by the time I got to Ulaan Batar, which was this really hectic city, I just wanted a coffee kind of thing.

It's like those little things that you really miss when you're traveling like that for a while. So I really enjoyed for a few days going to museums and learning about Genghis Khan and stuff like that, but also just little things like being able to sit in a cafe with a coffee kind of thing. I've gathered you're a coffee person. What's the best coffee in, first of all, to start with, in the Concaf region? What's the best company you've had? You know, it's a complicated question because it's always about ambiance too and the experience of where you have it. But overall, what was the best coffee having experience? A lot of good coffee countries, to be honest.

Costa Rica has incredible coffee. It's really known for it. And so I have, and recency bias, I just had some Costa Rican coffee. It's pretty good here, but maybe Jamaica, Jamaica has incredible coffee, especially in Irish town, actually, up in those mountains. I think it's, I forget what it's called, but it's like famous coffee that I didn't even realize was there. I had run into another US fan and he, I told him I was going to Irish town and he was like, you have to have the coffee. And it really is that good. So I think maybe Jamaica wins with Costa Rica right behind them. Is it drastically better than coffee you've had elsewhere? You lived in Southeast Asia and they have coffee.

How's that how's it compared to that coffee? Southeast Asia is not high on the coffee scale. Unfortunately, they do well many things better than everyone else, like their food, for example. But, and I mean, in Southeast Asia, I lived in Thailand and Myanmar and I traveled around to other countries to Thailand. Like I lived in two different places. One more remote for six months and then for a year and a half in Chang And Chiang Mai is a huge tourist destination. And you can get great coffee kind of thing, I guess is my point.

But it's not Thai coffee. And you're going to go to like the Western Cafe to get the good coffee. But yeah, Southeast Asia is not high on the coffee list. Let me bring in Nate for a question. Nate, you can unmute yourself. Yep, go ahead. Hey, Meg. First of all, thank you for what you do.

And just to my question, do you have any? insight into what I'm going to call the Ohio thing, you know, three qualifiers there, now rumors that the Ghana friendly is there. I know there are popular theories that there's like that it's like home crowd insurance that's just kind of thinly veiled racism. Is it, is it that simple from your perspective or I don't know, what gives? Yeah, I think that there are, I also want to apologize if anyone's out there from Ohio. I called it at Lesser Pennsylvania the other day. And I just want to make clear that I do, like Ohio. But in terms of the US Soccer Federation, keeping going back there, there is, and they

have said that for the qualifiers specifically, they really want to make sure that there's a quote unquote home crowd atmosphere. So that absolutely is a factor. I think that they know that they can rely on crowds in Columbus are now Cincinnati to deliver and show up to fill the stadium, to get there early, all that stuff. I mean, they did have great atmospheres. they've got MLS stadiums. I think that those are factors as well. I also think it's familiar. I think that Greg has a big say in where the team goes.

So he is a part of the equation. I think it's familiar. I think that he was focused on qualifying and wanted to go to places that he knew and then knew could be good places to train for the team and that they were familiar with at that point. And I could see that being the logic behind them going back there again, is that I don't think Greg, who has a lot of say in this necessarily, or the Federation, are thinking about growing the game here or we haven't gone there in a while.

I'm sure it's in the equation. I don't know if that's going to be the primary decision. And I feel like if they do go back to Ohio for a friendly in June at this point, it's going to be logistics of wanting to have some kind of home base having time with the team to travel in facilities they're already familiar with. and kind of capitalizing on all of that stuff. One other thing I would say is I think that the Federation is thinking about having a national training facility by 2026. I think that they want to have a home base where the team goes to train.

And I wouldn't be shocked if Ohio's in the equation. And so all of this could be a part of trialing out Ohio as being a national training facility. I don't think that would mean necessarily that all the games are in Ohio or that a national stadium. necessarily is in Ohio, but I think having a home base for where they go to train is a goal. And I think, you know, there's a few places that have been thrown out as options. I think Kansas City is another, but I wouldn't be shocked if Ohio is high on the list. And this is a part of trialing that. We do seem to be quite fond of Ohio.

Yeah. Yeah. We play England in the World Cup and you lived in Manchester for a while. What's your sense of these people? these people that were going to be putting these strange people and I don't know just generally what's your sent did you learn anything that would help us beat them I think that they don't take us seriously and I I hope that that motivates our team and it's an interesting relationship the United States and the United Kingdom on a

number of levels it could be a whole podcast I mean it's an incredible country full of incredible people I think on in a soccer context I don't I think they're thrilled that they're playing us. To be fair, this might be the best England team we've ever seen, and we're definitely punching above our weight, playing them. Do I think it's impossible that we would perform well or beat them? No, I don't think it's impossible. But I think it would take a lot, and it would take a lot of the right mentality, and whether or not that's the most important game in our group is up for debate, but just from the perspective of pride and wanting to beat the the team that definitely doesn't take you seriously at all from from their media down to the fan base

down to the players probably um yeah i hope that's motivating to our team in terms of like the more than anything else in terms of like gregg and the team i hope that motivates them to win their coffee probably isn't very good is it it's not no they have horrible coffee no i mean there's good coffee options there's like you know in cities like i was in manchester um And but like any city like Manchester, you have like the artisanal coffee shops and stuff that you could find in Philly or in Brooklyn or D.C. So there's good coffee, good coffee options. Speaking of England, Lepper on the Discord asks, what does it like to write about the U.S. national teams for a British publication? And, you know, how does that sort of audience adjustment manifest itself for you? It's funny. Go ahead.

answer. Yeah, I mean, I don't see a lot of, in terms of like the media, not the British media not taking as seriously. I mean, I think that the Guardian, and I write for the Guardian US, which the Guardian has like three subsets. There's the main Guardian and then they have the Guardian Australia and they have the Guardian US. So like my editors and everyone I work with is the Guardian US.

And I think, you know, they're definitely bought into the US. team to Concord Calf generally. And I don't see a lot of the skepticism that we might see in a broader scale of the US. So I don't know that the broader themes of that relationship play out into writing for the guardian necessarily. One thing I do think is funny is that I feel like my brother pointed this out to me, like every article I write. There's always like a bunch of Canadians in the comments who are upset that the article's

not about Canada, even though there's a bunch of other articles about Canada. which I think is funny because I feel like they feel like the Brits are writing about the Americans when they should be writing about the Canadians. Just a small thing I've noticed at The Guardian. But yeah, I mean, I really enjoy writing for them. And I don't think it changed. It certainly doesn't change what I would write or the focus of the articles that I would write. Speaking of Canada, I think the, correct me if I'm wrong, the one qualifier you didn't go to was because you went to the Canada-Mexico game. Yeah.

As Tucker, right? Is Canada better than us based on doing that game? Better is a difficult thing to manage. I mean, I think that we're more talented. I think that we have more potential. I think they're tapping into what they've got more successfully, is how I would put it. So yeah, better is hard to manage.

I would say no, but in some sense, I think they're at this present moment, able to tap into what they do have to greater success than we currently are. Let's get a question from Tara. Hi, Meg. My name's Tara. I, too, am in Philadelphia. My question is a two-parter.

I saw you tweet out something along the lines of the men's team is lacking main character energy. And I wanted to know if you feel like the new generation, on the women's side is lacking the same thing and then just general thoughts on the women's draw. Yeah, that's a good question. So for the women's main character energy, I am really excited and interested to see what happens with the younger generation.

I mean, I think the older generation, we know they had a lot of main character energy, the 2019 team, and I was at that World Cup in France, was full of main character energy and it was part of what made them so exciting to watch. We're in a moment now of transition between those generations and I think that there's a lot of the younger generation forming what kind of personality they're going to have on the team. So there could be some main characters who are still budding. But one person who I'm really excited to see grow as a player who I also think has a lot

of main character energy is Trinity Rodman. I think we see that in NWSL. I think she's a really talented player, but I also think she's got like a great general attitude on the field. And I think that she is kind of, yeah, she's really exciting to watch. I think she's got that and she's someone who I think is going to be a big part of the next generation of United States women's national team. I mean, in terms of main character energy, like we could take that in a number of directions because there's the main character energy of being able to take over the game and make the game about you just in terms of your skill or what you're doing on the field.

And obviously players like Rose Lavelle are obviously capable of doing that and she's not entirely new, but I think she's got that type of main character energy. But yeah, in terms of like riling up the crowd or riling up the opposing fan base on purpose, the way like Megan Rapino might or that Alex Morgan did with her teacup celebration, I probably see that most in Trinity Rodman at the moment. And then in terms of the draw for the Concorda Calf Women's Championship, yeah, I'm excited. for that tournament. I'm really interested. I do think it will have good competition for the US. I expect them to top the group. I think it will be challenging. It'll be, I think,

interesting to see what Black Go does in terms of the roster and how much of the old guard he does call in because I think this is going to be probably, you know, if he's not calling in the Kristen Press and the Tobin Heath and Alex or Megan at that point, I think that'll say a lot. I think some of them will and some of them won't be called in so that's one interesting thing i'm interested to watch um and then it'll be interesting to see the younger players how they do and with bigger stakes um with the chances that they've been getting the past few months in terms of the competition yeah i think it'll be interesting i mean mexico's been getting stronger and stronger i think jamaica might be coming in second though i mean mexico's got home crowd

advantage they're the hosts i'd like to see them do well jamaica's Jamaica's hard to beat. They're a really good team, the reggae girls and Haiti as well. So it's going to be a tough group. I do expect the US to top it, though. And then potentially the final, which will be in Monterey and Mexico, could be the US and Canada, the women's team. And I think Canada, you know, they're having a lot of success with both the men and the women's team and the women just won gold in Tokyo. And I'd love to see our younger generation have a chip on their shoulder about that. And that final, I think if it is US and Canada, it will be really exciting to watch. Are you going to be, you have a new new sub-stack that you're going to start

doing stuff on. Is it going to be a mixture of women's national team, men's national team in Philadelphia Union or how are you imagining? How are you going to? Yes. So yeah, so definitely a mix of both the women's and the men's national teams, as well as MLS generally and NWSL generally. My focus is on Philly Union but I really do enjoy the stories and the characters and the teams that come out of both leagues generally. So it'll be all of those things and then also some other things as well. I mean I personally I really enjoy like bringing the fan base to life and I want to do more of that. And so I'm hoping to do more like interviews and stuff with just interesting people who are involved with different elements of soccer in the US or

globally and then there will be some things just you know I think the global game is relevant to our national teams obviously and so one thing I'm hoping to do is I'd like to be writing about the women's euros actually which are happening in England this summer I'm really excited for that so I'm planning to be in the UK for about a month this July writing about the women's euros and And one of the reasons I'm interested to write about that is I think that the growth of the game in Europe for the women has been guyrocketing the past few years. I mean, they've always been strong or had strong teams that have been really strong opponents for our women's team.

But I think that the investment on a monetary level, at a club level, but also from like a media perspective, they're putting a lot into growing the game there. And I think it'll be interesting to see where they're at with their Women's Euro tournament. July and I think that'll say a lot for what our competition is going to look like in 2023 for the women's World Cup. Awesome. Hey, let's do a question from J. Fox VDB. Hi, guys.

This is Jeremy from Sacramento. Meg, I know you went to, I think, every U.S. away qualifier. And I remember, like, growing up, you'd always hear that they're super hostile that, like, players get stuff thrown at them. Did you ever get that feeling that it was more hostile or that it was just a very intimidating atmosphere? And then it's like one qualifier to go to, like one away qualifier to go to based on your experiences, which one would you recommend?

Thank you. Thank you, Jeremy. Thanks, Jeremy. Those are good questions. So first of all, I would say that it definitely leans in the direction of intimidating atmosphere. I think some of the maybe horror stories that you hear, if you can call them horror stories from like players in the 90s or early 2000s era, I don't think that stuff is. happening quite as much anymore. I think that the atmospheres are really passionate and

intimidating for those reasons, but I don't think hostile is the right word for the majority of cases. In terms of stuff getting thrown, which is always like a hot topic or yeah, I didn't see that happening outside of the game in Honduras. And the stuff getting thrown in Honduras was majority getting thrown at the Honduran team because they had just floundered their early lead against the US. So there's a lot of stuff getting thrown at that game. Most of it at their own team and coach, some of it at the US. But that was the only game that I really saw stuff getting thrown with any notable consequence. And in terms of what away qualifier, I would say to go to, I mean, I think everybody says this and I hate to say

what everybody says. But Mexico City, I think, is an incredible city. It's easy to get to. should go to Mexico City, regardless, Azteca is a legendary stadium and atmosphere. I do think it was a strange atmosphere this year and is lower down on the intimidating atmospheres. Interestingly, overall for the US team. But I don't expect that really to be the case longer term. And I think that if you can get to a qualifier at Azteca, that would be the one. Although they're all incredible. And honestly, after that, I would probably say El Salvador, but they're actually also renovating their stadium, which on the one hand is exciting,

but I'm just transparently a little bit nervous about because I'm a little bit nervous about what will be lost in that incredible atmosphere with a renovated stadium. So I do wonder if the next time we play in El Salvador, if they'll have a less intimidating atmosphere with the Cuscatlan gone. So for that reason, maybe everybody should go to our away qualifier, but our away Nation's League game,

which is at the Cuscatlon in June. might be the last chance. Yeah. Let's bring in Slim, one, two, three, four, five. Hi, this is SETI from Boston. Thank you for doing this, Meg. I have a question.

So earlier in the year, there was a bit of a minor controversy involving the availability of Brendan Aronson, and you were kind of caught on the crossfire of that. As a young reporter, do you have any kind of takeaways that you learned from that experience?

Not well, I don't know that I regret anything I did. I mean, I feel it was an interesting experience and without like revealing too much behind the scenes, I feel like US soccer didn't want the news announced before they had announced it is basically what it was. And from the perspective of being a reporter and wanting to have a good relationship with US soccer, I do have a good relationship with them. And we've talked about it afterward. And we were talking about it then.

And they definitely were displeased with me. But I feel good about having done what I did. And unfortunately, it was correct. I mean, I would have actually in that scenario, and the rare scenario, wanted and preferred to have been wrong and had Brendan been able to play actually. But yeah, it was definitely an interesting back and forth and an interesting 24 hours.

And it's interesting from their perspective. of like when people want you announcing information that does appear to be pretty solidified already. You were not wrong by the way. That was a victory for you. Why would you want to be wrong? I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying.

Yeah, I was not wrong, but I, you know, I suppose if I had been wrong, the silver lining would have been Brendan Ironson being able to play. But I was not incorrect. And the reason that it was suggested I was incorrect is because US soccer didn't want to announce it yet basically and they were not happy with me. You got a scoop and then you can dance on the graves of anybody who questioned your accuracy. There's a good day. It was like a win-win-win to me.

Anybody else got a question? We don't have too much time left. I have way more questions. We don't have time for all of them. What's the best thing you learn from a cab driver? Or what's something you learn from a cab driver? Because, you know, you go to a place and they kind of know what's going on. I think cab drivers are always the people to ask where to eat.

I feel like I constantly am asking cab drivers where they recommend for food, whether that's, you know, in Mexico City, them telling me their favorite place for Pazole or in Jamaica. I asked my cab driver from the airport, like, where was a good place to eat? And he, like, veered off the road and, like, grabbed the food. Right. That was where not, I mean, not immediately, but he, like, made it point to. like bring me there on the way to the hotel and like bought me the food actually that I was requesting. So always ask cab drivers for food recommendations, I would say. And they're also

a really good way to get a sense for how much the host city is talking about the game. Like, is this on people's radar and how is it being talked about in the press kind of thing? So yeah, I'm going to say food and then also inside info into what kind of hype is happening around the game that's happening. If you're in Mexico City for a while and you want to venture outside of the city, where are the places to visit? Well, in the immediate proximity of Mexico City, there's some pyramids. So that's usually a big place that people go to.

I went there. I've been to Mexico City a few times. I have family that live there. And we went there a few years ago. So I think that's like the first day trip people take outside Mexico City. And it's definitely worth visiting. But if you have time, if you're going to be in Mexico City for a while, you're going to be in Mexico City for a while and you have time to go a few hours from Mexico City and spend a few days somewhere,

I definitely recommend going to Puebla, which I was there. I went to a few games there, actually, and I was able to stay there when I was there in October for the Canada-Mexico game. I stayed with my cousin who lives there in Mexico City, and then I spent, I think just short of a week in Puebla, And it's like right next to Chalula, actually, famous place of hot sauce origin. And yeah, that I think is my favorite recommendation. You can get there by bus in about two or three hours. And it is just unbelievably gorgeous, interesting. Historically, culturally, the food there rivals Mexico cities.

Yeah, if you've got time, go to Puebla. Jackie's got a good question. I'm going to pull her in. Hi, I'm Jackie from San Francisco. I've noticed that I was like a U.S. men's national team fan on the internet. I like definitely have a chip on my shoulder because I am a woman who is a fan of the men's team. And I'm wondering if you experience a similar increased amount of shit talking as a USMNT reporter who is a woman versus like if you get more shit talking, and male USM&T reporters? It's interesting. There are not enough female reporters, I think.

I was typically the only female in the press box for this entire octagonal. There's a few, definitely for the away games, but there are some great female reporters who will be there for some of the domestic games. But I think one thing that really shocked me, actually, more than anything, is that there aren't more female reporters

covering the men's team. So whether or not I get more shit talking, to be honest with you, I kind of ignore it. So probably, but I try not to pay too much attention to it. It is interesting, though, just like a small irrelevant anecdote. When I was going to the away qualifier in Canada, I don't think I have ever in my entire life and I've been to a lot of countries, been grilled as much as I was at the Canadian border. And the guy in like Canadian customs, he was giving me a really hard time. And he was like, so you're here for a soccer game?

And I was like, yeah. He was like, why do you like men's soccer? And he kept like grilling me asking me why I liked men's soccer because I was a woman. And that was a really strange experience to have at the Canadian border. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I guess my general answer is that probably, but I try my best to ignore it. And I think I do a good job ignoring anybody shit talking. That's a strange line of questioning from him.

Yeah, right? Pretty bizarre stuff. You've given us a couple of reasons to resent Canada even more than we already do. And I appreciate that, Meg. Thank you. Yeah. I'm doing my part. Yeah.

How do you think being from Philadelphia has impacted how you cover sports? Because you obviously grew up in that. It's a very particular sports ecosystem. Has that influenced you? I do. I mean, I think Philadelphia is a really passionate sports city, and it definitely comes with some negative sides. I think that, and I said this, I was on the straight red card last week, and I said this to them, you know, with the debate about toxicity, I probably have a higher tolerance for what is probably genuinely toxicity and fan bases just because I grew up watching the Eagles and watching the Sixers. and yeah, so fans with a lot of character, shall we say, is kind of normal.

That's the world I grew up in when it comes to sports. And I kind of love the energy around all of that. It's when I'm used to. And yeah, so I guess it has impacted me in the sense that I'm used to really passionate fan bases who have a lot of characters and sometimes go too far. And I do think when things go too far, especially when things become violent, at an Eagles game or something like that. Obviously, that's too far and should be called out.

But I probably have a higher tolerance for quote unquote toxicity because of the Philadelphia sports upbringing had. So speaking of passionate fan bases who sometimes go too far with violence at Eagles games, you mentioned that you knew people who were at the game where they threw snowballs at Santa and booed him. But you also said they felt that he deserved it. I'm just curious, what did he do to deserve?

What did Santa do to deserve that? Without judgment, I'm just, I'm just genuinely curious what he did. I don't know the full story. The excuse given that I was told was that Santa Claus was drunk, but I think, okay. I think maybe it was the opposite. They were all, the fans were also, everyone was drunk. I think we get that saved us.

Yeah, that was the excuse. But I think once, it's one of those things or once one person starts, it's hard to, to stop it from continuing. I don't think there was a reason. personally, I think that. Okay. Well, I just want to know the reason. I defend them. If they thought he was drunk, let's do it.

I mean, who likes Santa Claus? I think he deserves it. Overrated. I've always said that. I don't believe that. Let's shut it down, guys. We're going to end on the Santa Claus question? Okay. That's a good way to end.

You don't have to. You can ask a couple more questions, as long as Meg's not annoyed at hanging around a little longer. I've got time. Okay, I have one. No, that's good. That's my last question.

You sure? Wucky? Okay, I have one more. Because I have one more, too. I've got a question because it's something I've, it's about soccer dads and moms. You know, they're a particular group of people, and you're a journalist who cover soccer,

which means you from time to time, come into contact with them. What do they like as people? And have you learned anything about them or yourself or life in general in your process of interacting with them. Yeah, I think that, I mean, dads and moms are dads and moms. They care about their kid. They want them to do well.

I think sometimes they can be really good sources for getting the truth of what happens behind the scenes. When someone says they have a source, it's normally a mom or a parent, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think that they can be good sources of, but I do think that something should be taken with a grain of salt because like I just, that dads and moms are dads and moms. And obviously they want what's best for their kids.

So if, you know, they might feel like some things or their kid might be getting treated unfairly if they're not getting playing time or this or that. But maybe that's not entirely true. But yeah, I think dads and moms can be good sources of the deeds of what's happening. I think my favorite dad or mom interaction I ever had was I had posted a video of the National Anthem

anthem in El Salvador that went mini viral, I would say. It got me really popular in El Salvador in Twitter, I think. And yeah, so I had that, and I think USM&T only posted it. And then after that video, somebody's dad reached out to me and sent me a video of Woody Houston singing the national anthem and was like, this is better. And I thought that was pretty epic. You're not going to tell us who it was. No, I can't.

Let me ask you another question you won't answer, I'm sure. But you said Ron Bloom is one of your favorites in the press box. Who's your least favorite in the press box? Yeah, I can't answer that. Okay. A more serious one is how do you find working with, like, cameraman and ETHI, the U.S. soccer communications guys? I think, you know, I think that they get a lot.

lot of criticism. Some of it's deserved. I mean, I think I've definitely had scenarios where there's been frustration, like the Brendan Ironson thing was a little bit frustrating and just like 24 hours of ridiculous back and forth of them, you know, being like, this is inaccurate, Brendan is coming, I can't believe you tweeted this, and then me asking for the info and then ended up being exactly what I said. Like it just really, if you could see the emails that I have with, um, from that 24 hours. It's pretty mind-numbing stuff. And there's a few other times where I've been frustrated.

But overall, I would say that, you know, as people, they're cool. And, you know, they do their best and they do a good job most of the time. I think they're pretty responsive. I think they try and are trying to be more open. So, yeah, I mean, generally, they're cool, I think. Okay. Thank you for answering that one. Chris, I interrupted you.

No, just thank you, Meg, for doing this. Yeah. I really appreciate it. Thank you, guys. This has been a pleasure. I'm going to put the link to the swan dive in the show notes. And anywhere else people should look for you or anything you want to plug before we get out of here. No, those will be the big places.

You can find me on Twitter at Meg underscore Swanick on the Swan dive. And yeah, thanks. everyone for tuning in and thanks for having me guys. Awesome. We'll see you.