Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #278: Interview with Mikey Varas, U.S. men's U20 coach

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

Mikey Varas joins the pod to talk about the tournament he coached the week he was hired, how the youth national teams are integrated with the senior national team, the shortage of true No. 9s in the youth ranks, the federation's approach to dual nationals, and how yoga applies to soccer. support Scuffed on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedScuffed listener survey: https://forms.gle/sBXXSaJ8jnP6RZDY6 join the Discord: https://discord.gg/X6tfzkM8XU buy our merch: https://my-store-11446477.creator-spring.com/drop us a question at this link and we’ll try to answer it: https://forms.gle/rfzSEZJwsvnWSCxW7 Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuffed podcast. I'm Adam Bells in Georgia. With me is Greg Velasquez in Iowa. We talk about U.S. men's soccer. Our guest today is Mikey Vadas, the head coach of the U.S. men's U-20 team. He's a native of California who coached in the FC Dallas Academy before he was appointed to the U-20 job by U.S. soccer last fall. Mikey, how you doing?

Doing well, Adam. Thank you for having me. Thanks for being here. You were hired and then thrust into a tournament in Guadalajara within two days. Can you tell us about you? about that experience, please. Yeah, well, actually, it was in Salaya, Mexico, so, which was really interesting,

because it's one of the more dangerous places on Earth right now, Salaya specifically, that region. But it was an incredible experience. Obviously, logic might tell you you'd like a little bit more prep time heading into an experience like that, but we embrace the moment. moment looking at it as an opportunity to dive straight into the fire and get our,

you know, get our feet wet right away. And as time has passed, we realized that more and more it was an incredibly valuable experience because our first experience with the pool was at the highest level of international competition. So the measuring, the measuring stick is pretty much as accurate as it's going to get at that point, step one. When you were, I mean, like, what's your first message to the team when they, I mean, they probably found out that you were going to be the coach for that tournament when everybody else did, right? Right.

First message to the team was that although we're here to compete in this tournament, this is the first step of a long process. And so the first message was outlining what the long-term journey was going to look like and what the objectives were, which were to qualify. for the World Cup to play our football and to develop all the individuals that are on the journey with us. And then the second thing that we talked about was the objective short term for that camp, which were we want to do instill the foundational building blocks for our culture, for our team culture. We wanted to get maybe a step or two towards our style of play.

Although it was very difficult because there was very little training time. Thirdly, we wanted to compete as best as possible. And most importantly, we were going to use it as an evaluation process of where we were and what we needed to do to achieve our long-term goals, which were to qualify, play our football, and develop the individuals in our group. Okay. I've applied for and interviewed for jobs before, and the last one was at a newspaper,

and there were, you know, I talked to like 15 different reporters, but at the end of the day, I knew who was going to make the decision and it was the managing editor. You know, I had to talk to him last, and he was the one who decided whether I got hired or not. Who is that person at U.S. soccer? Who was that person in your process? Is that Brian McBride? During the process of the interview, I was unsure, but now that I'm within the federation,

I'm pretty clear that it was a group decision. Okay. And the way that the Federation works is surrounded around the concept of we. And so whether it's values, principles, hiring, strategy, it's always done at the level of we. And so Ernie Stewart, Ryan McBride, and Barry Powell's were probably the three kind of leaders in that process. But it was, there were many people, I think, involved in the decision at many levels because it's such a collaborative organization. Okay. So just to dive right into some specifics in that first camp of yours, and I think in the most recent camp, though, you can correct me if I'm wrong, you didn't have on your roster what most people would consider a classic number nine.

and I wonder if is it your plan to use a you know use a more mobile false nine type striker in this cycle or and why you know is that a necessity because of the player pool or you know talk us can you talk us through that a little bit yeah the need for a number nine has been pretty clear from from the first camp we have a lot of talent. wingers and attackers, so 10, 7s, and 11s. We have an incredibly talented number nine. It just so happens that he's graduated onto the senior team, which is an incredible success all in and of itself, right? But it does present a challenge, which for us, we view as an opportunity not only for ourselves to dig deep and find that next player, but also for the player pool to be able to adapt. And since we see we have a lot of talented attackers, and until a more traditional number nine shows that they're at the same level of the rest of those attackers, where our plan is to develop the best players for the future of the men's national team. So if that

means bringing extra wingers and bringing extra tens and playing with a false nine, that's something that will do. Okay. Awesome. What discussions have you had with other coaches at the Federation about this? I mean, like you said, it's great that Pepe is, Ricardo Pepe is playing with the senior team. He would be eligible for your age group. But it seems like it's also a little bit of a challenge at the U-17 level as well. Yeah, I think from each generation to generation, you're going to find different challenges in each pool, you know.

And that happens at the top of the pyramid, the cream of the crop in the world. You know, Argentina doesn't always have an incredible number nine. So I think the idea is that we develop the player pool as much as possible, especially at the 17s and 20s level. There may very well be a number nine there that's just a late bloomer. You know, and we're very, we're very cognizant of that. and although there might not be a number nine right now, we continue to work with as many number nines as possible

and try to make the pool as deep as possible, knowing that the development of each of these players is on a totally different timeline. And Ricardo is someone who was able to mature earlier. And I'm not saying from a physical perspective, I'm saying from a game IQ and competitive perspective. and it's pretty incredible what he's been able to do. But that's not to say that there is another 03, 04, 05, and even 06 out there,

who's maybe just on a little bit of a longer timeline in terms of development. So we speak a lot as a staff, as a youth national team staff, and then Greg is in conversations on one-on-one levels, especially with myself being very helpful. And, you know, using the false nine is something that he actually enjoys. And that's why they've used, for example, Legette and Freda are both more false players versus Pepe, who's more of a traditional. So there's been ongoing discussion, and it's something that the organization and the Federation is kind of looking at it as from a holistic perspective. Okay.

I've heard in various places that you're really into yoga. Yeah. What's the overlaps between yoga and soccer? I'm not that knowledgeable about yoga, I have to confess. I think not so much yoga per se, but the idea of controlling your breath and being able to be mindful and present in any even moment. I think it crosses all fields. So whether you're a painter or a podcaster or a journalist, the, the, ability to be present and to be able to calm your emotions and see things from a more

mindful perspective is always useful. And I know in the sports world, the more technical term is performance breath. But it's something that I find from my own personal, my own personal life, it's been pretty incredible. And it's something that I like to share with players without it being dogma. It's just something, a tool that, you know, I present to them and if they like it and see value of it with it, then they're able to use it. And if not, no problem whatsoever. It's not the way. It's a way, right?

100%. Yeah. 100%. So another, going back to the communication with the rest of the staff, Tom Albright in Duluth, Minnesota, says, wants to know how much are Greg and the rest of the senior staff, you know, advising you and your staff regarding which players should be brought in. And similarly, how do you balance implementing a common formation and style across levels of the men's program with the need to adjust based on the players in the pool? And we've discussed a little bit of that.

But anything you could say on this topic is going to be, I think, fascinating to our listeners. Well, one of the greatest advantages we have is that we're all based in Chicago. So we go to soccer house together. And they're just one floor away from the youth national team. So the ability to have conversations is pretty incredible. And my experience, my short experience with Federation right now, it's been clear that Greg and his entire staff is super invested in the Federation as a whole and not just qualifying with the men's team.

Aaron Hyde, for example, the goalkeeper coach has been massive in terms of watching video and helping us assess the goalkeeper pool. because those are really, really important decisions. We view ourselves as the second team. And so although qualifying for the World Cup is really important, the long-term goal is to make sure players from this pool are positively affecting the senior team at a World Cup level in the future. And so the collaboration has been great, and we've made sure that we always seek the advice and a feedback.

of Greg and his staff because they're on the ground level of the ultimate goal. And it's really, really important. And so we do that from a player perspective, but we also do that from, you know, a tactical strategy perspective and making sure that we align the language so that players who get called in from the 20s into Greg's camp aren't hearing certain tactical language for the first time that they're comfortable with it and that they're able to adapt quickly because that will do two things. One, allow them to perform as best as possible and get a positive evaluation from the senior team. And two, most importantly, allow the team to do well at the senior level.

What are some examples of that common language that you try to emphasize? So just certain principles. So for example, when we're in a pressing moment and a player is going to go put pressure on the ball and the ball is passed back to the goalkeeper and the ball is passed back to the goalkeeper and that player continues to press, okay, the common language be to press through. And you go club to club across around the world and they might say something slightly different. You know, the concept is the same, but the language and the way to deliver it are with different words. And so it's important that we try to use as close to as possible, the same words and the same language so that the learning. So that the learning, the learning, the learning,

learning process is smooth throughout all the age groups. The candidate coach, John Herbman, gave a presentation a couple of years ago, and we got somebody leaked it to us, and we thought it was very interesting because they were talking about the different metrics that they use up and down the, you know, up and down age groups to assess players. And one of them that they used was something they called an advanced platform, advanced platform, which is, you know, you got the ball with at your feet, either running at a back line or behind the back line.

And they wanted to, they want to make sure players are, the teams are generating a lot of those. And, and they want to see how players are performing in those moments, because those are the moments. So I, I only bring all that up to say, is there, you know, whether it's the U-15s or the senior team or the U-20s, are there, is there anything unique? Nobody's leaked us a U.S. soccer presentation yet. So we're still waiting on that.

But is there anything that you guys, you guys use that's unique to sort of assess players that comes quickly to the top of your head, you know? I mean, yeah, absolutely. We have very specific positional profiles. So, you know, the advanced platforms is a more general idea that can be tailored to a team or an individual. So it's the idea of playing forward, right? It's the idea of advancing a ball.

How well can you do that? And we have different layers. You know, we have a we have positional profiles that gets into very specific actions. A number nine needs to have in certain qualities. And then we have more of a holistic approach, which talks about what their game understanding is, what their technical execution is. Do they have a very specialized physical tools, physical and fitness tools? And then more from the mental side, do they have a growth mindset?

what kind of competitiveness and responsibility do they show in terms of motivation? And one of the most important qualities is their learning ability. So how do they adapt to the next level of competition? It's something that I think across the board mentality. Once everybody's on pretty close levels of technical execution, game understanding, and physical attributes, it's the players with the best mentalities of most desire to learn, most competitive and willing to do the extra work, and maybe most importantly the ability to find themselves in an uncomfortable level, slightly out of their ability,

but be able to adapt to it quickly. Those are really key indicators for success. Okay. Now is when I should say that scuffed is an ad-free podcast paid for by its listeners. if you would like to become a patron and strengthen the long-term viability of the podcast, the link is in the show notes, thanks to everyone who already does support us. Mikey, I read that you studied at clubs in Argentina, Italy, and Spain before, like, long time ago, before launching your coaching career. Can you tell us about that? Was that like a self-directed course of study, or did you go visit some clubs, or how did that work?

I was a little bit of a mixture. So I happened to start a company with a good friend of mine at the time who was from Argentina. That's kind of how it started. And we were bringing players over to Argentina for them to train, you know, with a professional club. And the organization that we were going to at the time had an affiliation with Barcelona who was looking for the next Messi. It was called Project Messi. And they were opening up schools all over South America kind of trying to find the next hidden gem. And so, yeah, that experience was about a six-week experience, if I remember correctly.

I went three different times for an extended period during my summers. And it was incredible because I just sat there from morning till evening, watching the different age groups and watching how the coaches interacted and kind of the different level of professionalism and intensity that took place. But that part was a bit self-directed. And then after that, NorCal Soccer, which were the leagues that I coached in at the time, they did a great job of bringing international presenters to California to kind of brought in our educational process.

But in addition to that, creating trips to Europe for coaches who wanted to pursue a deeper knowledge of the game and the idea of development. I think you also had an epiphany in Argentina about the intensity required in training. Maybe it was at one of watching, you know, sitting there watching these trainings. Can you talk about that? Yeah, absolutely. I, you, when you see a Argentine, I don't know, 10 to adult player, any of those age ranges who, their whole life, is about being a professional, playing a sport that means everything to everybody in that entire

country. And for many of them, the ability to play that sport can significantly change their socioeconomic reality and, you know, help their families a lot. The natural intensity that comes with those trainings is pretty incredible. And then on top of that, the coaching staff doesn't dampen it but drives that intensity more and more and more. And so watching the coaches and just how much energy and how much enthusiasm and they provided to the session, it was pretty incredible. And seeing how those coaches after a session were completely wiped out, it really motivated me to really reflect and say,

okay, well, how serious do I want to be at this? And if I do want to do this at a serious level, I want to help bring that kind of level of intensity to everything that I do as a coach and help transmit that onto the players, which are the most important main actors in the entire equation. You coached in Northern California before FC Dallas, you mentioned that. Did you ever run into Hugo Perez? I did. I was actually fortunate enough to play at the University of San Francisco. and Ugo was our assistant coach for two years. So my first experience with Ugo actually is going to Crocker Amazon Fields in San Francisco

with my dad who played for a men's league team. And Ugo would play on his team from time to time or another team and was clearly the best player on all the fields every single time. So that was my first experience. That's how I always knew Ugo. And then he happened. I believe in my junior and senior year, he was hired as an assistant by Eric Visser, and he came in and helped work with the attackers.

And that was my more formal experience with Hugo. And then after that, yeah, we would run into each other because Hugo and his sons work for clubs up and down the peninsula, and they're really ingrained in the whole soccer, we're ingrained in the whole soccer scene. So we would always run into each other. It was always great seeing Hugo. Now, you're, you're Chilean American, right? Is that through your mother or your father or both? My father is from Chile and my mother is from the United States.

So, yeah, split pretty much right down the middle. Okay. Well, so you must have some insight on the whole dual national phenomenon. And I mean, I wonder what your thought is, what's your philosophy on helping a young player to navigate that decision. I mean, because just recently, Mexico called up a player that, you know, many expect to be on this U-20 team, Jonathan Gomez. He played a, he made a cameo with the senior national team.

Seems complicated. Like, how do you, how do you, how do you think about all that? How do you address it? Well, the first thing to say is that, you know, the philosophy that we take is is ours, right? So it's not Mike U.S. deciding how to deal with with dual nationals, but it's the federation in the country as a whole. And how are we intentional about managing these situations? When I speak with the player who's a dual national, the first thing that we do is recognize what a difficult decision they have, you know, and just let them know

that the first thing is, is no matter what, we're here to support them as people and players, because it's a very complicated situation, as you mentioned. The second thing that I am able to do is to connect with them and let them know my history and how I understand how difficult it is. Because I don't think it's easy for someone who's not a dual national to understand how you can have equal love and passion for two different countries. And it's impossible to ever really choose. You may have to choose from a football, a professional, where you're going to live perspective. But what's in your heart is impossible. It's impossible to say that I'm American and not Chilean or Chilean and not American. And then the third thing is we just walk them through the process,

walk them through the process of what it looks like. The things that they should be aware of, which include being cap-tied, you know, when that final decision is coming. We ask them what's in their heart, what do they feel. We believe that they should go with what is in their heart, what is what they feel strongest about, which country they feel strongest about. We let them know that, you know, as long as they're not cap-tide, that with us, the door would, as long as we are both treat each other with respect and there's

transparency and there's a strong foundation of, you know, human relationship that the door will always be open for them and that we continue to want to support their careers and their development because the world is nonlinear and you just don't know. They might be in one space at age 18 and it could be in a totally different headspace at age 21, depending on what experiences they they live through during that time. But ultimately, we want the best for the player. And we want players who want and are desperate to play for the U.S., the United States. So there's no, there's nothing, there's no selling. There's no trying to drag somebody into a camp. No, people who, players and people who represent the United States understand the honor and

pride that exist with being able to be in that position. And when they're with us, it's because they want to be with us. And that's where their heart is telling them to be. You may not want to answer this question, but do you get the sense that Mexico, Mexico is approaching it the same way in terms of no selling? I would say, I don't know what, Mexico is doing, I can only make, I can only take guesses. And so typically, I try not to do that. Fair enough. But I know everybody has their own strategy. Okay. Question from Alex in Chicago. Maybe you've run into him. I don't know, Alex Calabrese, he's a big, big, big fan of all the things, U.S. soccer. How do you build a culture and a strong, cohesive team environment when you rarely have all of your

top players available and when there's often a very different group of players at each camp. Right. So if we talk about being cohesive in the respect of playing and style of play, that's definitely a challenge because we get very limited training time. And aside from the tactics, players just need time to be able to get a feeling for each other also. So I would say that's definitely a challenge. What we do is we try to keep things simple.

So not to overcomplicate the principles and the tactical objectives. Second thing is to play to the player's strengths. Play to the player's strengths. And the third thing is to provide them with as much autonomy and confidence as possible. And then from a team culture standpoint, my opinion is that's very easy because we're dealing with some of the most motivated, high-achieving people on the planet. You know, people who achieve national team level in any sport are incredible people. So as long as as a staff, we make sure to be intentional about demonstrating how important team culture is for us.

And then allowing them the room to also drive that culture, the players buy in really, really quickly, really quickly. And at a really high level, it's been really impressive to see. this is a question from Andre in Salt Lake City you often don't get to call in all the top players for you know say even for this qualifying camp I mean I don't know who you're going to be able to call in but it's possible you won't be able to call in

everybody you'd like to call in and so then you come up with this dynamic where some of the players who qualify assuming we qualify qualify the team for the U-20 World Cup don't get to actually play in the U20 World Cup. And I wonder, how do you communicate that possibility or that reality to the team or players

so that it doesn't negatively affect the chemistry of the team? Does that, that's a great question. But does it make sense? No, it's a great question. It's something that we've been dealing with and we've done it at a very intentional level. First, that's one of the most important reasons creating a positive team culture is important. and the idea of the team culture is not you're in the team or you're out of the team. It's if you've been a part of the process at any point during the entire process,

you are part of the team. And whether you're physically at the qualifiers or physically in the World Cup, you have had a hand in the success that the team has ultimately. So that's one. And then two, we make sure that we create a clear relationship dynamic. So the base relationship is as a human being. So our love for them as people and our support for them as players is unconditional. It's unconditional, no matter what.

And that means that whether you're at the qualifiers or not, if you want to go over clips or you need advice, players know that they can reach out to myself or our staff and we have time for them. And that's something that we really encourage them to do. You mean go over their clips with them? Yeah, go over, yeah, anything they need. Whether it's clips from the national team camp or they have a clip from their club and they want some advice on it. Basically, we have time for them, unlimited amount of support and love for them as people and as players in terms of their development. And then the second part is the performance piece.

And that's the part where, you know, sometimes they're going to be selected, sometimes they're not. and we make sure that we develop both of these relationships somewhat separately, where they know as people and as players, they'll be loved and supported unconditionally, but that tough decisions need to be made in terms of performance. And so from having that human relationship, that really authentic relationship, we feel like we give ourselves the best chance of getting through the situation that you described, And we tell the players, we don't have crystal balls. So there's a few guarantees in life.

And one of them that I have is there will be a player who does not make qualifiers, who plays in the World Cup. There will be a player who plays qualifiers and does not play in the World Cup. And there will be a player who doesn't play in either and plays in a men's national team, a World Cup for us one day. So that's why the love and support as a person and as a Polaro. player is unconditional because all of these guys have different trajectories and different timelines for their development. And whether they're here day to day with us in every event should not

be the only factor of the attention we give them. We give them all as much attention as possible, knowing that the ultimate goal is with the men's national team. Okay. How many players are going to be on that roster for the tournament in June and July? I don't know that I said. So it's 20. Okay. So a pretty small roster. Yep. Wendy, do you have a sense of when that will be finalized, maybe second week of June or something like that?

No. Our camp will start in the mid-June, so our roster should be finalized by the end of May. Okay. All right. Well, anything you wish I was asking you? No. No? I appreciate your time.

And best of luck to you this summer, big tournament. Yeah, I appreciate it, Adam. Thank you so much for having me. Okay, thank you. We'll see you.